NationStates Jolt Archive

OOC: This thread is strictly invite only. Please do not post unless your name is listed below...

Austar Union
Credonia
Doujin
Kihameria
Hamptonshire
Cousin Eddie
The Atheists Reality
Dumpsterdam
Daviestan
Dr_Twist
United Elias
The Fedral Union
Holy Panooly
Kay Son
The Freethinkers
Cicera
Axis Nova
Mafikeng
Raginsheep
Iuthia
Al-Sabir
Hogsweat
Nazguul
The Resi Corporation
Moronicidiots
Cartoria
Derscon
GrecoAsia
Elves Security Forces
Sicrat
Hattia
Krulltor
Feazanthia

--------------------------------

"Hello, Im James Madison, reporting LIVE from Anatoba. This is exclusive coverage of the alliance talks by NBC News.

We will be covering the talks in detail. Now, crossing live to the conference room..."

The camera switches to the conference room, where the delegates have begun to gather.

The Austarian delegate, Peter Richards stands to his feet, and moves to the front of the room. Leaning against the podium, he begins;

"People, and future allies of the Austar Union. Through the organisation of both my own nation, and Credonia, we have come together on this day. We have come together to discuss something which is destined to change the near, and long term future of our world.

This alliance, still yet to be put together has already gained the attention of the world community. Already, this alliance is famous throughout our world, and yet, it still remains without a name...

We can only deduct that the future of the alliance is to be prosperous, and achievement filled. And that perhaps even God himself (the AU is christian based) favours us to be great in our world. It is our destiny brothers, and only we can possibly achieve the goals set before us.

With great pride, I can say the words, Let the debating begin!"

*tag* for later.

An armoured limousine rumbled towards the building. Commander Feaz C. Macleod stepped out, flanked by two armed guards.

TAG for later

OOC: Yay! Its begun...woo


IC: A black limosine with Freethinker flags waving over the headlamps pulls up outside the main building. Out steps two large bodyguards of the diplomatic protection agency, then a platinum haired woman, the Freethinker ambassador Claire Voyant, steps out of the car, and, flanked by her aides, walks into the building and then on into the conference hall.

tag...will respond properly shortly

double-post

Farid Jamzad, Al-Sabir's main delegate, walked into the conference room. He was closely followed by two bodyguards. He sat down and he opened his old, worn-out briefcase. It contained a laptop, a scribbling-pad, a ballpoint, some medications and some notes with Farid's own ideas about the new alliance. He took the scribbling-pad and the ballpoint and he put them on the desk in front of him......

(lol my envoy is alredy at the bulding ...)
Jose mean wile was siting on a chair in the Confrance hall of the bulding .*
Jose :... *hums* were are Those other delgates.. i hope nothing has gone wrong *he gets up and paces around*

0(stupid forums)

OoC: Stupid forum didn't let me on....

IC: Commander Rift walked into the conference room, quietly taking his seat and searching his metal briefcase for some items. A dataslate small enough to fit into his hand and a can of soda, he popped the can open.
"Let the waiting begin."(my char is addicted to soda :D )
He straightend himself out and watched the rest arrive.

*a limousine moves slowly,a plain black limousine,nothing special,the flags were standard Kihamerian national flag,the limousine pulled up to the building,the driver got out and opened a door and a guard stepped out with a MP5,he looked around and then gave the signal,a man stepped out of the limousine,followed by a guard with a M-16,they went to the enterance and the guards put down the MP-5 and M-16 and they walked inside,the guards each had two Uzi's and the delegate has a .45 colt,all of which were well concealed,the men didnt have on fancy tuxedos,the delegate had on a good pair of jeanes and a nice shirt,the guards had on suits,the Kihamerian delegate walked up to the table and sat down.*
"So,is there any issue at hand ?"
*he asked plainly,not knowing if he was there early,or late.*

A red-tailed hawk sits upon the window of the confrence room listening in on the conversation. At the remark of The EESf being apart of the meeting, the hawk flys down to the middle of room and begins to shift shape. After a minute of transformation it reveals Hwan Readfeather, the EESF diplomat.

OOC: To bad you didn't do this on a private forum, AU. Seeing as the NationStates forums are very bad usually, it will make this conference hard.

IC:
CIO and Minister of Foreign Affiars, Jonathon Wernsman, stepped out of the black limousine and walked boldy to the doors of the conference building without any bodyguards. He is confident in the security arrangement of the Austar Union, and didn't see need to have a personnel security detatchment.

Opening the doors, he saw a grand conference room set up for the alliance talks. Taking a deep breath, Minister Wernsman winded his way to his table, shaking hands and nodding with various other government officials of the attending nations.

When he got to his table, he pulled a small pocket PC out of his pocket, pulled out a keyboard, connected them and set them on the desk and waited while it interlocked with the Doujin satellite uplink. Through this he would keep the Prime Minister updated as he attends the launch of the DN Doujin and signs the OMP Treaty into law.

Grand Duke Reginald Leopold I arrives by armored limo in Anatoba. While other nations are sending representatives to this conference, the Grand Duke decided that he himself should conduct these negotiations.

This is the Grand Duke's first exercise of his official power since his recovery from the terrorists attacks on Hamptonshire. He has brought along only two very lightly armed Royal Guards as he believes Austar's security will be more than adequate.

Stepping into the conference room he greets the other delegates taking special care to greet Minister of Foreign Affiars, Jonathon Wernsman of Doujin. He is giving his official thanks for the recent business deal between the two countries.

While the Grand Duke is meeting and greeting, his two Royal Guards are setting up a laptop and secure satellite connection to ensure communications with Prime Minister Louis Cessar.

Grand Duke Reginald Leopold I arrives by armored limo in Anatoba. While other nations are sending representatives to this conference, the Grand Duke decided that he himself should conduct these negotiations.

This is the Grand Duke's first exercise of his official power since his recovery from the terrorists attacks on Hamptonshire. He has brought along only two very lightly armed Royal Guards as he believes Austar's security will be more than adequate.

Stepping into the conference room he greets the other delegates taking special care to greet Minister of Foreign Affiars, Jonathon Wernsman of Doujin. He is giving his official thanks for the recent business deal between the two countries.

While the Grand Duke is meeting and greeting, his two Royal Guards are setting up a laptop and secure satellite connection to ensure communications with Prime Minister Louis Cessar.

[tag]

Three men all wearing matching black on black suites toting matching brief cases appear slight of handedly at the registration table, all three remove their sunglasses simultaneously as if one was peering at a single person through a prism, "Delegation from Krulltor reporting.”

A solid white hummer pulls up in front of the building and a single man gets out. It is the President of Moronicidiots, Aaron Schrock.

He walks into the meeting room and looks around. He notices nobody is talking, and wonders why not.

Schrock: Well...........whats the first issue?

A solid white hummer pulls up in front of the building and a single man gets out. It is the President of Moronicidiots, Aaron Schrock.

He walks into the meeting room and looks around. He notices nobody is talking, and wonders why not.

Schrock: Well...........whats the first issue?

A solid white hummer pulls up in front of the building and a single man gets out. It is the President of Moronicidiots, Aaron Schrock.

He walks into the meeting room and looks around. He notices nobody is talking, and wonders why not.

Schrock: Well...........whats the first issue?

A long, sleek and shined stretch limousine with whitewall tires bearing two Nazguulian Flags pulls up alongside the building. Stepping out are Viktor Lazlo, Fuhrer and High Chancellor of Nazguul, Helmut Sinning, Generalfieldmarschall of the Nazguulian Heer(Armed Forces) and Heinrich Hoefl, Reichsmarschall of the Nazguulian Airforce.

Two more smaller black sedans filled with NSA style spook security guards pull in the back and front of the limo and the guards step out surrounding the three men as an entourage. Once escorted inside the building, two of the guards follow the three inside and the rest stand sentry outside the building.

The men make their way into the talks and apologize for their tardiness. Escorted to their seats, they're ready for the talks.

(OOC:Sorry for being late, I got called into work.)

5 Delegates are seen arriving at the delegation in several armored Sedans. Around them is a complement of near 20 Sicrati Secret Service (a.k.a. secret police) agents in Stomata infiltration suits. The S.S.P. agents escort the Delegates to the proceedings, and wait outside the main chamber, nearby.

my dimplomat, Azeron Corados shall soon arrive by private jet.

(just woke up, sorry for being late to talks)

sorry bout my thing posting like 4 times, i have no idea why it did that.

its the server gremlins

A sleek black Axis Nova hover-limo pulls up to in front of the conference building and the ambassador steps out. He surveys the building from behind his shades, then goes inside, where he heads to his appointed seat.

(OOC: sorry for the lack of RP, don't have time right this second >_<)

Axis Nova

Emperor Alexander Sutton sat in his Imperial Boeing 747-400ER waiting for it to land.

'God, i wish we could hurry this up already, im about to burst at the seams here" he thinks to himself as he tries to suppress his excitement.

He stared out of the window until the wheels of the enormous plane screeched as they pound into the asphalt runway, giving him and the rest of the passengers inside a small jolt forward. He clentched his seat until the violent vibrations stopped and the plane came to a hault on the Tarmac. He looked out the window once more, observing the horde of reporters, cars, and spectators standing out on the tarmac waiting for delegates to arrive. He noticed a red carpet, lined with Austarian armed guards and Credonian secret service agents who arrived before his arrival.

He unbuckled his seatbelt, straightened his tie and put on his dark, black sunglasses and headed for the front of the plane. Soon, two credonian secret service agents came up behind him and escorted him out to the door. The media swarmed in, but was immediatly held back by the armed guards as the Emperor stepped onto the mobile staircase and waved. After a moment of posing, he descended the stairs, accompanied by his personal secret service agents, walked down the red carpet ignoring the media and thier questions, and hopped into his black stretched limousine. He and his convoy of vehicles, escorted by police and additional secret service details leave the airort and head towards the conference.

On the way, Alexander enjoys the sights and smells of the Austarian city, noting to himself in his ind to comment on Austar Unions's beautiful host city. He continues to enjoy the sights until he pulls up to the building where the meeting is being held. At this location, more media await, and begin snapping shots of the limousine. A secert service agent opens the door to the limo, and Alexander steps out and begins heading for the door. The media snap what seems to be hundreds of pictures of him, and he stops to answer one quick questionfrom the reporters.

A reporter fights her way to the front and begins to yell out her question, but is drowned out by the others screaming theirs as well. Alexander points to her.

"Yes, i'll take your question"

"Thank you your highness. One question sir, how are your feelings towards todays meeting despite some of the criticism shown by other nations prior to this date? and do you think that if this alliance does come together that it will be strong and stay together?" the reporter asks.

"Well, i am excited to be here, amongst some of the greatest world leaders, and new world leaders who have just entered into the international scene. it is a pleasure to be here to help host these talks alongside President Hoffman of Austar Union in this beautiful city, one that i must say, rivals Credonia City back at home. As for the criticism that was given prior to the talks today, well i believe that they will indeed be discussed and debated over, which is why we are here today. This alliance has much potential if it is to form. We have some excellent leaders here who fight for the same morals and ideologies as Austar Union and Credonia. Once the alliance forms, it will become a respected name, one in which will stand for freedom, justice, and liberty, and we will defend those very ideals. Will this alliance stay together? I am absolutly positive that it will, and it will only get stronger and stronger. Thank you"

He walks into the building and into the conference room and notices a great many of the delegates have arrived. A secret service agent informs him in his ear that some other Credonian delegates will also be arriving but are running a few minutes late. He acknowledges it and takes a seat at a table where his placecard is located.

Kayla left for the conference, once preparations had been made and gear loaded onto the craft they lifted off to leave for Anatoba, Austar Union. Overall the Hippogrith was a roomy craft specifically fitted for diplomatic use, the exteriour of the craft was sleek and jet black with radar absorbing paint as well as the smooth edges required for a hover vechile to operate.

Soon the craft made contact on the Austar Union radar systems as it approached the nation from a distance away, the craft was giving out a specific signal to allow it to be tracked without trouble. Overall the Hippogrith made a point of following Austar Union's proceedure as it approached it's designated landing area. The pilot was ordered to follow everything requested by the Austar Union escorts and command centre.

Evetually after it's short flight it landed vertically on a helipad, soon followed by the Iuthian Security Personnel, who were wearing the distintive black uniform of Iuthia, along with the flag embroided on one shoulder. These men were then followed by Kayla's diplomatic aides, who were wearing grey suits and breifcases. Finally out came two large figures, who were wearing the distinctive carapace armour of the Black Viper Specialist Corps. On their backs were the large futuristic Guass Rifles, requested especially as a cultural item. After these two men came Kayla Harmone herself, looking quite pleased with herself, she wore a long white dress and was helped out of the forebearing military craft.

Slowly they walked to their Austar Union escorts to be taken to the Alliance Conference, following all proceedures asked of them, in good reason.

They were then showed to their hotels, the security personel laising with the Austar Union security advisers to keep everything smooth.

Once everything was ready Kayla got dressed and was led to the conference centre, afterwhich she found the spot reserved for Iuthia and waited for everything to start.

Press Coverage of the Iuthian Delegate is limited becuase of the automated responce: "No Comment" Though I suspect that the flashy craft and guns may give comment, if someone wants to mention it in their news report I woulnd't mind.

Macleod sat at his designated spot, noticing how different he was from the other national leaders. They were mostly wearing suits, he was in the orange and yellow dress uniform of Feazanthia's military, designed after the habits that monks wore in Tibet. The uniform was adorned by numerous awards and medals that he had earned in his service before becoming the Commander. He was a small, middle-aged man, no taller than 5'6. Large, thick glasses hid many of his asian facial features, but did not serve to hide his balding head. He opened a small briefcase and took out a palm pilot. Tapping the screen with the stylus, he got a brief update of the war in Umojan before setting his hands on the table and awaiting the start of the conference.

Major Sang Liu walks into the conference room flanked by two men dressed in black. All three of them wear a black beret, a green-grayish sweater uniform (unadorned), and brown slacks. There is a small patch pinned to the Major's side designating him of Alpha Brigade, SecForce. There is very little else on him with the exception of three stilettos, which have been left with the security detail. His bodyguards, however, have refused to comment on whether or not they have weapons in their sleeveless coat that they wear. Many security personnel around the conference building have not challenged them upon this due to the looks they get. The Major sits with the two men standing near him, like statues, not moving a muscle. A small green spiral notebook is placed upon the table. The Major takes a small pencil out of his stiletto sheath, scribbles something in it, and looks up.

Sub Foreign Minister Morozov stepped out of the unarmed Mi-24. He had not brought along any guards as he was confident in his allies security. And if something did happen, he always had his pistol. He strode into the conference rooms and sat his briefcase on the table. He then proceeded to meet some of the delegates.

Suddenly, a masked man is seen in the rafters.He has something in his hands, but its hard to make out what it is. MY GOD! It seems........yes, it is! The man has a sniper rifle! He pulls it up to his shoulder, aims it at Aaron Schrock's (of moronicidiots) head, and pulls the trigger. He then runs out of the room thinking he has accomplished his mission.

Just after that, Schrock walks back in the room, the man had shot his robot duplicate that was in his chair. Schrock, gets immediately on his phone and the room is flooded with security. Is this the last we have seen of this man?

Suddenly, a masked man is seen in the rafters.He has something in his hands, but its hard to make out what it is. MY GOD! It seems........yes, it is! The man has a sniper rifle! He pulls it up to his shoulder, aims it at Aaron Schrock's (of moronicidiots) head, and pulls the trigger. He then runs out of the room thinking he has accomplished his mission.

Just after that, Schrock walks back in the room, the man had shot his robot duplicate that was in his chair. Schrock, gets immediately on his phone and the room is flooded with security. Is this the last we have seen of this man?


IGNORED..closed rp moron

Suddenly, a masked man is seen in the rafters.He has something in his hands, but its hard to make out what it is. MY GOD! It seems........yes, it is! The man has a sniper rifle! He pulls it up to his shoulder, aims it at Aaron Schrock's (of moronicidiots) head, and pulls the trigger. He then runs out of the room thinking he has accomplished his mission.

Just after that, Schrock walks back in the room, the man had shot his robot duplicate that was in his chair. Schrock, gets immediately on his phone and the room is flooded with security. Is this the last we have seen of this man?


IGNORED..closed rp moron

Late, because of previous commitments, Foreign Minister Lord Easton and Defense Minister Sir Walter Melville arrive at the conference. After they apologise to Grand Duke Reginald Leopold I, they start to meet and greet the other delegates.

The Grand Duke and Foreign Minister are intent on shaking the hands of the highly respected Credonian Emperor Alexander Sutton.

Defense Minister Sir Walter, however, is checking out the weaponry of the other delegations' guards.

In the Early Hours of Dr_Twist Time, The Prime Minister of Dr_Twist Left on His Private 747 Heading towards AU, in the Plane was a Heavily Armored Limo and some Protection Vehicles, There were also a small Number of SAS troops aboard with Special Service Agents and other People to Protect the Prime Minister of Dr_Twist.

9:00 AM AU Time. The Plane has Landed in AU and the Prime Minister and his Protection have begun leaving the plane while the Vehicles are being Unloaded, the Prime Minister Meets and Greats AU officials Waiting at the Airport to meet the Prime Minister and his People.

10:12 AM AU Time. The Prime Minister and his People leave the Airport heading towards the meeting, Heavy Security is around the Prime Minister while they drive to the Meeting.

11:34 AM AU Time. The Prime Minister Arrives at the Meeting he is Constantly Surrounded by Personal while heading to the meeting room, Once Entered the Meeting room all Security forces stay out side of the Meeting room while the Prime Minister Meets with other World Officials.

Outside the alliance conference building, Prime Minister Julio Sanchez and Secretary of Foreign Affairs Loreen Amaya arrive at 12:00 AU Time in a white Cadillac Escalade bearing two Ciceran Flags. The car, escorted by four motorcycles, came to a hault in front of the meetings "red carpet."
Guarded by two armed security guard, the two delegates made their way to the meeting room without stopping for questions. Once inside, they walked swiftly to their seats, and began having a conversation in Spanish.

A trio of sleek, jet black, well-polished and cared for vehicles pull up the conference. Armoured beyond the imagination of the non-military mind, and even beyond that of many military minds, the trio of cars expelled their contents at the steps leading to the grand building housing the conference. Unknown to practically all, the inhabitants of the vehicles make their way into the building.

Having just announced the founding of the nation Grecoasia, the country's leader was occupied at home with internal affairs. In his stead was sent his righthand-man Guy LeDouche. Surrounded by five extremely well-trained bodyguards whose size did not match that of most of the bodyguards at the coneference, Guy made his way into the conference and seated himself at the assigned position. His table proudly displayed the national flag of Grecoasia....complete with an imprinted beaver, the country's national animal.

A miniscule, digital video recorder began to record as it transmitted the signal back to the homeland, where the nation's actual leader watched with interest as the talks began..

A large black four-by-four pulled up. Out of it stood five men in long black robes. Four of them were huge and wearing silver masks. The other (who was obviously their leader) walked through them towards the meeting hall. The other four filed behind him, well trained eyes scanning the surroundings constantly. It was the first time the leader of Cousin Eddie had left the home land, and they wanted to make sure nothing went wrong.

Before seating himself, he addressed those present.

"I have not met any of you in person before due to my not having left my country before. I wish to extend the hand of friendship to all here."

After making this brief note, he went around and shook the hands of the representatives form Hamptonshire, Iuthia, two nations Eddie is already allied with.

He stepped further around the table, took the hand of Emperor Sutton, and bowed.

"It is an honour to finally meet you."

With that he moved to his seat, bodyguards surrounding him.

http://ironmaiden.com/homepagebits/eddie.jpg

"Ah, your excellency. I am glad to finally meet you." Grand Duke Reginald Leopold I said while moving toward the leader of Cousin Eddie. "What may I call you?" he whispers as he goes in for an embrace.

"Your excellence, I would like to extend to you the greetings of the government and people of Hamptonshire. We would be honored if after these talks you would grace our nation a full State Visit." Lord Easton said as he moved his wheelchair toward the leader of Cousin Eddie.

"Ah, your excellency. I am glad to finally meet you." Grand Duke Reginald Leopold I said while moving toward the leader of Cousin Eddie. "What may I call you?" he whispers as he goes in for an embrace.

"Your excellence, I would like to extend to you the greetings of the government and people of Hamptonshire. We would be honored if after these talks you would grace our nation a full State Visit." Lord Easton said as he moved his wheelchair toward the leader of Cousin Eddie.

The Delegate from the PRKS comes over the two delegates with an open hand. May the Fortunes above grace your steps, he says, bowing before them.

"It is my honor to meet you. May the Eternal Grace of God fill your heart and mind." Grand Duke Reginald Leopold I said while returning the bow to the PRKS delegate.

"May you and your people know nothing but peace." reverently spoke Foreign Minister Lord Easton.

Commander Rift streaks his fingertips accros the runes of the dataslate, tapping into AU videofeeds and watching the other delegates arrive.

"Wat the hell do these countries have with protection, so obvious and so useless with all the AU troops around."

He notices he is still sitting alone two empty seats beside him.

"The Delegates from the Community of Mafikeng",boomed the announcer,as the External Affairs Secretary,Babbington Hipwell and Defense Secretary, Gen.Ludi Schwalz entered the conference hall. The room was buzzing with conversations and no-one was paying much attention to the announcer. Many were now sick of hearing the countries' delegates enter the room. Hiwell and Schwalz headed towards the free seats by the Dumpsterdam delegate,the countries' clearly not being seated alphabetically. The Dumpsterdami delegate was looking around,clearly bemused at the self importance of the security retinues of some of the delegations. Easing into the seats,they introduced themselves.

Minutes after Eagle Two, the Vice President's low key specially adapted 777-200LR, touched down at the airbase, the rotors of a three EA-24B VIP helicopters started to spin. The helicopters, arriving just before the Vice President on an Air Force An-124. One would take the Vice-Presidnt and his staff to the conference and the other two as decoys carrying protection agents from the FSB.

http://img12.photobucket.com/albums/v36/United-Elias/eagle2.jpg

The 777 came to a halt on the far side of the tarmac, and within five minutes, the diplomats and security personnel had been transfered to the awaiting helicopters. Without further ceremony, the birds lifted off in formation, bound for the conference.

Looking down over the city a short while later, he thanked his security detail for bringing his precious helicoper, seeing the rush hour below it would have taken hours. Not an ordinary rush hour it had to be said, black limousines of differing shapes and sizes and massive motorcades clogging up the streetsa nd apparently the citizens just had to live with it. Anyway, since Elias was bigger and more powerful than most of the other nations at the conference, a more elaborate entrance was appropriate.

After a short flight, the first helicopter descended onto the lawn at the conference facility and immediately agents disembarked securing a perimter around the landing area as the Vice President's own helicopter approached. While the third helicopter hovered overhead providing over watch, the Vice President of the Federal Dictatorship of United Elias stepped off the helicopter's short stairway and gave a quick salute to the two Air Force honour guards who stood at attention.

Entering the conference area, the security detail kept a cordon around the VP, primarliy to make him look important, as diplomats were not known for assasinating heads of states, not with guns anyway.

To his suprise the seating seemed to be rather haphazard with no reserved places, however the Elias Ambassador to Austar Union had obviously previously been aware of this fact as he had arrived early to reserve a prominant position, next to Credonia and Iuthia. The Vice President introduced himself to the ambassador who he had met at some function before but didn't have the vaguest recollection of. He then turned to the Crdonian delegation and engaged in meaningless pleasantries before the real talks began.

"Ah, your excellency. I am glad to finally meet you." Grand Duke Reginald Leopold I said while moving toward the leader of Cousin Eddie. "What may I call you?" he whispers as he goes in for an embrace.

"Your excellence, I would like to extend to you the greetings of the government and people of Hamptonshire. We would be honored if after these talks you would grace our nation a full State Visit." Lord Easton said as he moved his wheelchair toward the leader of Cousin Eddie.

You may call me Eddie. I would be honoured for you to do so.

Eddie greeted both members of the Hamptonshire representative. Lets get our people to talk about the possibilities, and a state visit would be wonderful

Peter Richards stands to his feet;

"Welcome to Anatoba everyone. Im glad most of you could make it. We have reserved a back area, for all those who are late, so it wont interupt the talks. So, shall we begin?

I would like to highlight the need to identify some sort of a structure, before anything else. Now I do have some rough notes scribbled down. Jiles would you please turn on the projector?"

Behind him, a large screen displays some points.



1) Alliance to be seperated into two tiers. Lower tier to have full privilages, except to run for office in the Senate. Higher tier to have full privilages, including to run for office in the Senate, barring rules & regulations according.

2) Senate to be organised by political party. Each political party organised according to rules & regulation. Senate voted on seperate to President, but to have power to impeach the President. Senate to make all executive decisions, except amendmants to constitution.

3) President to have added power, such as command over the alliance army/quick reaction force. President is subject to Senatorial desisions, including impeachment. President to be voted by all citizens, seperate to the Senate and must be a member of the Senate.

4) Senate to have power to create law, but not amendments to the constitution, and also has powers to make executive desision, such as the declaration of war (with the support of the President)

5) Amendmants to the constitution to be made on the vote of ALL members of the alliance, both tiers.

"These are the ideas we have gathered for the structure of the alliance. We are opening this topic to debate."

Peter moves back to his seat.

(OOC: Sorry to be the bump on the log, but I figure I better start things off here... got to get this clarified more.)

The delegate from Axis Nova stands, and clears his throat.

"I would like #3 to be clarified... If interperted in a certain way, it could be said that this president would have more authority over a nation's military than the nation itself. I feel that the minutae on how such a reaction force is established and maintained should be discussed before we discuss how this President will have authority over it."

"I also have a few doubts about #4... Does it mean that we will only be allowed to go to war when allowed by the alliance?"

The delegate sits down, as people around him start murmuring.

Axis Nova

Hwan looked up at the projetor , and hummed quietly. He was wondering what these " privalages " were.
"May I ask, what are these privalges? And I would also like a seperate body to keep the President and Senate in check from taking to much control. This body should also be the one to decide how to punish those nations of which break the rules."

With a swish of ermine the berobed Daviestanian delegate arrived, slipping quietly into his seat and muttering a brief apology involving anti-aircraft fire over the Daviestanian border. Reading throught the electronic record, he nodded in approval and rose to his feet

"The tiered system is one highly approved of by the Daviestanian officials. Might I enquire on what grounds we are to allow access to the higher tier though? In our model access brings with it greater responsibilities; a greater contribution to the defence force, free trade with other higher tier members rather than just favourable tariffs. Can we exect something similar here?

On the military front, I understand Austar's suggestion to mean that we may declare war against nations outside the alliance individually, but use of the alliance's force is voted on. Certainly I would suggest that although the President acts as C-in-C of a central force, there should be a Council of Generals to advise him, each nation sending troops represented by a number of generals on the board proportional with their contribution."

Erazmann sank back into his seat, glancing at the Axis Nova delegate to gauge his reaction.

"For what purpose are the seperate political parties, surely an allaince is a group of nations who share ideology?Otherwise we become an artifical group who disgaree with oursleves so often that nothing is accomplished much like teh later stages of teh IADF."

"For what purpose are the seperate political parties, surely an allaince is a group of nations who share ideology?Otherwise we become an artifical group who disgaree with oursleves so often that nothing is accomplished much like teh later stages of teh IADF."

re 1): What will be the qualifications used to separate the allied into the two tiers? I have my own suggestions.

re 2): All higher tier countries should have equal representation in the Senate, a la the U.S Senate. I agree with the powers of the Senate, especially that the Senate will have all executive power. However,what powers will be delegated to the Senate? Will the soveriegnty of the member states be preserved?

re 3): I feel it will prove impossible for the population of an alliance this large to be able to vote for the office of President,especially countries with enormous populations. I suggest that each country be able to decide how the election process will work within their borders. I believe that the vast military might is also too much for the office of President and should remain the perogative of the Senate. If the alliance were to go to war,perhaps then the Senate could delegate the powers of the military to the President. We do not want a coup d'etat by a dictatorial president. I also propose an Allied Military Council

re 4): I believe the Senate should have the power to introduce referenda on constitutional change which would then be ratified by all the member countries in whatever way they see fit.

I have a few other suggestions:

1): The alliance will treat hostile action by an outside power against a member state as an attack on the alliance as a whole and will respond accordingly.

2): Member states are forbidden to go to war with each other, under penalty of expulsion or suspension from the alliance.

3): I propose that the tier system work like this:

Lower Tier Countries: Countries which have not committed their troops to the overall command of the alliance.

-Entitled to protection from the alliance against hostile powers.
-Observer status at the Senate (i.e no voting rights).
-Unable to propose referenda on the constitution.
-Unable to take part in impeachment proceedings.
-Unable to take part in accession talks with applicant countires (see below)
-Maintain the right to establish tarriffs against imports from allies.

Higher Tier Countries: Countries whose troops are under alliance command.

-Voting rights in the Senate.
-Membership of Allied Military Council (see below)
-A state of free trade should exist between higher tier nations.

4): Membership Applications

-Countries who apply to join the alliance must have their application debated and voted upon in the Senate.
-All countries who join the alliance in the future must become higher tier members. We cannot have an alliance without military co-operation.
-Applicants must recieve the support of two thirds of member states' votes in the Senate. (If a country misses the vote,their support or lack thereof will count for nothing)

5): Military Command Structure

-There shall be an Allied Military Council comprised of a representative of each of the militaries of higher tier members.
-The Council will co-ordinate military operations of the alliance.
-The Council merely retains co-ordinational control of allied military. All command emenates from the Senate,or President as delegated to.
-All countries will retain the right to field their own armed forces. The militaries will remain as sovereign as the member states and will not be merged.
-Countries embarking on aggressive wars will not automatically have the support of the alliance. To achieve support,the war must be approved by two thirds majority in the Senate.
-In the matter of the alliance becoming involved in an aggressive war (an unprovoked war),higher tier states will not be required to contribute militarily.

6): I feel it is imperative that it be an aim of this alliance to oppose aggressive wars of conquest and expansion,as they pose the greatest threat to peace worldwide.

I agree with the delegate from Mafiking in almost his entire proposal, however, I would like to propose a simple system for electing a president that is much easier to implement than a simple vote between dozens of different ideologies. It is essentially an election, however no votes will actually be required to be cast.


1.) As proposed before, countries will be seperated into different wings based on their ideology (e.g. Communist, Capitalist, Socialist, Centralists, Extreme Leftists, Extreme Right Wingers, etc.)

2.) The President will be elected at the start of the alliance by the wing that has the largest overall population. This takes into count all member-nations of that wing's populations, and adds them together.

3.) The wing with the largest overall population will then vote within itself for who's nation shall supply the President of the alliance.

4.) Presidents can be changed when the majority wing loses its power, and the new majority wing calls for another election. This can happen only once every 30 NS years. The whole process can then be repeated.

Though I welcome the endorsement of the delegate from Sicrat,I fundamentally disagree with his view on ideological voting.

I feel such a system would polarise and politicise the alliance. This will eb an allaince of countries,not political beliefs.

I agree with the delegate from Mafiking in almost his entire proposal, however, I would like to propose a simple system for electing a president that is much easier to implement than a simple vote between dozens of different ideologies. It is essentially an election, however no votes will actually be required to be cast.


1.) As proposed before, countries will be seperated into different wings based on their ideology (e.g. Communist, Capitalist, Socialist, Centralists, Extreme Leftists, Extreme Right Wingers, etc.)

2.) The President will be elected at the start of the alliance by the wing that has the largest overall population. This takes into count all member-nations of that wing's populations, and adds them together.

3.) The wing with the largest overall population will then vote within itself for who's nation shall supply the President of the alliance.

4.) Presidents can be changed when the majority wing loses its power, and the new majority wing calls for another election. This can happen only once every 30 NS years. The whole process can then be repeated.

At this point Eddie stood up

"I feel this is a very bad way to elect a President for this alliance. This is supposed to be an alliance of different cultures, not simply forcing everyone under the most popular ideaology." he looked embaressed and sat back down

"I am sorry if I have spoken out of turn. But using the 'follow-the-majority' attitude is going to make a lot of people within the alliance feel like outcasts. If the President comes from the most populated wing, and representation in the Senate is also done by population, then we will end up with a handful of countries running the show; as the President and the Senate will be roughly the same people!

This is also likely to widen gaps in the International Community between different political types. I do not believe this is what we want."

As usual the HP envoy came too late to witness the opening words and the main issues about the new alliance.

But on to the subject at hand. Does the president have ultimate power over all members? If so then it would be fair to let every member to elect a president each year. Everyone must have a fair chance. The political party system sounds good, but will there be any diffirence in numbers? Let's say a racist party has 44 party members and a small liberal party has only 8 then it would be logical to think that the most votes from a single party win in decisions.

I am concerned about the idea of political parties; labelling means factionalism, factionalism is division and we cannot start out by dividing countries we seek to ally. No doubt deals will be done between groups of nations on different issues - this is a healthy part of politics. But to place a nation in the "extreme left" faction makes them hostile to nations in the extreme right, and the alliance could degenerate into several minor alliances squabbling instead of constructive action.

As for the tier system, I am in accord with Mafikeng on the main points - a highly comprehensive and sensible system - except on the issue of admittance. I understand the need for participants to contribute militarily, but suggest that we must allow lower tier countries to be admitted throughout.

These, then, are the amendments I propose to the system:

1) As stated, all higher tier nations must pledge a set percentage of their military for use in the combined force, as and when requested.

2) However, in times of emergeancy, as unanimously agreed by the Higher Tier members, the larger lower tier countries may be required to pledge a small proportion of their military for the purpose of homeland defence only - ie. to defend the homelands of other members in times of dire threat. Figures to be determined as need dictates, but with a maximum; perhaps min. country size 250million and a maximum pledge of 20% of their armed forces?

3) All new members would be admitted at Lower Tier, subject to the President's approval.

4) Any member of the Lower Tier of 500million or over could apply to the Higher Tier, admission subject to a 2/3 majority in the Senate.

Macleod just sat there. He wasn't fully sure what was going on. They were planning to use his military? Well...that was the point of an alliance. Macleod rose.

"I am concerned. If I have understood this correctly, the senate would have command of my navy. Forgive me, but this is unacceptable. Though Feazanthia will go along with whatever the alliance dictates, how it goes about this should be its own decision."

I am aware that the proposal I made concerning electing presidents would be unpopular, but we must remember that we are dealing a huge melting pot of ideologies in this alliance, some of which are at odds with eachother. Having a general consensus between countries with such vast differences on a president will be vitually impossible. I also agree that a party system is definetly not the most accurate way of measuring an entire alliances favorite candidate, but it could very well be the only way of electing a candidate at all.


I may remind you that by no means do we have to stick countries into dozens of little ideology wings. The wings could be as few as three or four. This will allow a more accurate representation of the alliance's population.


But perhaps we should let this issue along for now, and debate exactly what powers this president will have before we decide how or who shall elect them.

Macleod just sat there. He wasn't fully sure what was going on. They were planning to use his military? Well...that was the point of an alliance. Macleod rose.

"I am concerned. If I have understood this correctly, the senate would have command of my navy. Forgive me, but this is unacceptable. Though Feazanthia will go along with whatever the alliance dictates, how it goes about this should be its own decision."

Farid stood up. He said: "The militairies of the member states should be soevereign, but the Senate should be able to coordinate the actions of the allied armies. So, they should have some control about the members' armies, but no entire control."
Farid sat back down and he began to take some notes on his scribbling-pad.

Of each major ideology there should be 1 representative to state their idea's and issues to a council to approve or reject issues. And above the council there should be a supreme "court" to judge everyone's (including the council) actions. A president must not have ultimate power over everyone.

Perhaps having fewer parties would be even worse for democracy. I mean, we would struggle at the best of times to find an ideology to suit ourselves.

There is nothing wrong with having full elections for the entire senate. We are all diplomats here and are capable of voting maturely so long as we all have a chance to field a representative.

However, even after this, we must express spectacular concerns a party system is being considered at all. The party system encourages nothing but inter-party struggles and reinforces given stereotypes. Whats to stop a president from, favouring his party in his decisions or punishing a wing on the opposite end of the spectrum itself.

Its a point we'd like to make.

damn forum, 6-post

damn forum, 6-post

damn forum, 6-post

damn forum, 6-post

damn forum, 6-post

Of each major ideology there should be 1 representative to state their idea's and issues to a council to approve or reject issues. And above the council there should be a supreme "court" to judge everyone's (including the council) actions. A president must not have ultimate power over everyone.

Farid stopped taking notes and he rose. He said: "Don't we already have just one major ideology? We agreed to come together here, because we have almost the same issues, ideologies and ideas. We have a lot in common. Second, the creation of different factions will make it extremely hard to rule this alliance. Fascists and Liberals, for example, have completely different ideas. If we make a decision, one faction will be happy and all others will be angry."
He sat down again and he drank some tea.

I submit further proposals.

the Office of the President

1):
-The President is elected by a majority of states.
-States have exclusive decision on the procedure for the election of President within their borders.

2)
-There will be no Vice-President.
-In the event of the President becoming incapacitated through death, impeachement or illness deemed a threat to his continued retention of the office,the President of the Senate will assume the role of President until elections can be held.

3):
-In the event of the Office becoming vacant,elections must be held as soon as possible.

4):
-The Office of the President will have the following powers:

-The power to convene emergency meetings of the Senate.
-The power to return bills to the Senate for re consideration. This may only occur once
-The power to refer bills to the Court of Justice (see below) in the event that he deems them unconstitutional.

-The following powers may be awarded to the President by the Senate:
-The power to act as Commander in Chief of allied forces. This shall entail enforcing the decisions of the Senate and Allied Military Council in a time of war (a time so designated by the Senate)

5):
-The President can be impeached and removed from office on the following grounds:

-Attempted power siezure through coup d'etat of the Alliance.
-Refusal to implement the decisions of the Allied Military Council
-Any other violition of the Constitution.

The Senate

1):
-The Senate will consist of one delegate of each member state.
-These delegates may not be a member of Government or Parliament in a member state.
-All delegates must stand for election at intervals to be decided upon by the Senate itself,but the manner of the elections to be decided by the member states within their own borders.

2): The Senate shall have the following powers:

-The power to declare war on behalf of the alliance.
-The power to debate and pass legislation and give non binding opinions on member states in regards to domestic and international policy.
-The power to impeach the President following Senatorial Inquisition. This Inquisition being a court of inquiry into the conduct of the President comprised of the entire Senate. A two thirds majority being necessary to impeach and remove the President from Office.
-The power to introduce bills to hold referenda on alterations to the Constitution.
-The power to remove any or all members of the Allied Military Council.
-The power to admit new members to the alliance,based on two thirds majority.
-The power to suspend or expel members of the alliance for the following misdemeanours:

-Commiting an act of war against a member state.
-Engaging in an unprovoked war that is deemed to be illegal by the Court of Justice.
-Forming alliances with states deemed by the Senate,following reference to the Court of Justice, to be enemies of the alliance.
-Failing or failing repeatedly to honour the commitments required of their tier.


The Court of Justice

1):
-The court shall be comprised of 5 Justices.
-Member States may nominate one Justice each in the event of a vacancy on the bench. All nominations shall be voted on by two thirds majority by the Senate.
-The Justices may hold their offices for a period of time to be determined by the Senate. If the Senate decideds to prolong or extend the period Justics may remain on the bench,the entire bench must resign and a new one (which containing outgoing Justices) appointed by the Senate in accordance with the above rules for nomination.

2): The Court will have thw following powers:

-The power to judge a bill unconstitutional following reference from the President.
-The power to judge a war undertaken by a member state to be illegal.
-The power to issue non binding opinions on the conduct of a state's domestic or international policy.
-The power to declare,following reference from the Senate, countries outside the alliance to be enemies of the alliance.

Lazlo sighs and stands up, facing the room with his future allies seated in it.

Gentlemen. While I agree with most of what's been said, it seems that we're almost relinquishing control of our Nations to this "Senate" and the one man who runs the entire show. I suggest this alliance be ran by representatives of our nations who convene together to make descisions, not have them made by one "Commander In Chief".

I mean, if one Nation gets angry with another non alliance Nation and decides to declare war, the other parties shouldn't be forced into millitary action unless the reasons are actually viable. My main concern is being dragged into a worthless and stupid conflict over a personal vendetta on someone else's behalf, just because Nazguul is part of an alliance. I surely do not want that.

Lazlo does not look around the room for support. He knows what he's said and he sits back down, regarding the chairperson. He listens once again.

After sitting quietly listening to the other delegates give their views, Alexander leans forward to his microphone and begins to speak.

1) Alliance to be seperated into two tiers. Lower tier to have full privilages, except to run for office in the Senate. Higher tier to have full privilages, including to run for office in the Senate, barring rules & regulations according.

"I strongly agree with this idea, although I believe that some kind of protocol be created to judge which nations are accepted into the higher tier and what nations will go on the lower tier."


2) Senate to be organised by political party. Each political party organised according to rules & regulation. Senate voted on seperate to President, but to have power to impeach the President. Senate to make all executive decisions, except amendmants to constitution.

"I believe that the idea of having political parties is not worth it and would only add frustrations to the process of democracy and bureaucracy. It would cause the alliance to fall apart, maybe not right away, but it would happen sooner or later and in a worse fashion as the IADF."

3) President to have added power, such as command over the alliance army/quick reaction force. President is subject to Senatorial desisions, including impeachment. President to be voted by all citizens, seperate to the Senate and must be a member of the Senate.

"I agree that the president have power over the military, however, I also believe that there should be a Secretary of defense so as to balance out the power so that the president doesn’t have TOO much power."

"I agree in full with ideas 4 and 5"

Kayla simply listened to the suggestions being thrown around, looking kind of bored with this whole idea... however she was here because Iuthia had to uphold it's reputation as a meddling nation, to remind others that someone out there is keeping notes on all the stupid wars and poor diplomacy.

The idea of "political parties" almost made her mind up immediately, it wasn't just a poor attempt to label certain governments, but it also seemed to a poor way of running an effective alliance...

She listened carefully to the last speaker, interupting after each section to add her own comments, which were not, on the whole, supportive.

"A two tier system? Ha... I've seen such a system in use before and I suppose it would make sense. Though a two tier system does have it's problems too, the people one the higher tier will no doubt act like their opinion is superiour purely because they have a higher seat. It could cause unwanted friction.

"Meanwhile we agree that some sort of set of rules would have to be agreed on, possibably to be chosen by the founding nation Austar Union."

Kayla then waited for the next comment on the list. However, it was much to her dis-taste.

"I suppose Iuthia would lead the 'Benevolent Dictatorship' party?" She sighed for a moment, perhaps irony would be lost on these people. "Nice to see that nations are so willing to place a sterotype on our nations politics, but I wouldn't join an alliance with such a handicap. It's clear this will only create further tensions between political ideals as they are labled by the alliance. Whats more we don't have enough members to make parties, it would be more efficient for one candidate to aply for a position and everyone to vote for the candidate they feel is most suitable.

"Should their be an issue with that candidates politics they will have had to list it on their agenda."

Kayla then listened to the third point, her patience wearing thin... perhaps this alliance wasn't for Iuthia. To many obligations and to many demands.

"Iuthia would not agree to an alliance which demands a preportion of our military forces. We are not about to make another aliance army because people want to show off their power. We are only prepared to sign a contract that would ask for mutual protection against agressors.

"We wouldn't think of supporting an attack without their being a damn good reason... and amazingly enough, we beleive that diplomacy should be completely exhausted prior to such action. Eitherway we wouldn't join an alliance which forced us to war, we will defend but we choose if we should attack or not[

"We have no qualms with a 'president' but their power should be limited to an administative role. Iuthia generally does as it pleases."

Kayla sat down.

"Well there are also alternatives. Each nation wouldnt not be required to put in military forces from their armed forces. They could if they wanted, but its not required. Instead, the alliance could contriobute money to purchase units for the alliance"

"So instead of a forced military contribution we would have to pay for an alliance army?

How about we just use our own armies when they are called for and instead of trying to be a single entity we could be ourselves joint by an alliance."

Rift his head a bit forward and pressed the button for the microphone.
"We are willing to commit units and men to the military wing of the alliance, but we will not agree to total command of our forces." He took a deep breath as people looked at him, he didn't want to draw that much attention.
"As for the president, his power should be limited to an administrative role. His election can be done by allowing ALL people in ALL members to vote for this. We are a big alliance and his position will be for a long time so it is best to take our time for this."

He sits back in chair and takes a sip from his soda.

Let's just say a small percentage (4%) of your army can be called for duty when needed. No hassle about who's in or who isn't. If you can't or won't send your soldiers you must always make a donation to help the others as a compensation.

"So instead of a forced military contribution we would have to pay for an alliance army?

How about we just use our own armies when they are called for and instead of trying to be a single entity we could be ourselves joint by an alliance."


"We COULD do that, but for a full mobilization of military forces, that takes time, and if we really needed to respond to a situation that warrants military action QUICKLY, we could always have a standing military force of considerable size if the alliance had its own military. It doesnt have to be a huge force, just one sizeable enough to do initial damage and keep the enemies at bay before main attack forces are mobilized and on the move towards the battle. Also, if nations dont want to have to pay to keep the military properly funded, then they dont have to join. Remember that this is alliance will be internationalist, so by joining this alliance, they are agreeing to actively be a part and support this institution. And sure there may be problems of making nations pay, however, as Lauren Smith my Secretary of State commented on the talkshow that she did earlier this week, a system can easily be devised to minimize or eliminate all problems dealing with national budgets and the nation's size."

Peter Richards stands up again'

"Hmm, well here are our amended ideas:

1) Senate to be voted on by the alliance, through a vote on each position. The senate is to have purely administrative powers, and will furfill roles such as a Director of Intelligence, Director of Foriegn Affairs etc.

2) The power to declare war, is to be given to the general assembly.

3) The power of a President is to simply co-ordinate the Senate, and to act as commander in chief of alliance armed forces.

4) About the alliance army. I suggest, that probably the gathering of troops from each nation is probably not the best idea. In fact, I would support the idea of each nation giving funding, to a general fund. The senate would be responsible for directing the general fund. What I suggest, is that we use the general fund, to buy the alliance's (as a seperate body) own military. Each nation would be committed to offer a portion of their own population to man the army. Now, this army would be somewhat smaller than a whole joint army, but it will take on a more "special operations" role, and it will be used soley as a quick reaction force, in case a quick response is needed. The President of the alliance would have the duty of co-ordinating this army.

Each member state would be simply encouraged to take part of joint exersises, unless it was defensive, whereapon the joining of the operation would be highly encouraged, and the only punishment would be the minus on that nation's popularity in the alliance.

5) We highly disagree with the catagorisation of nations in any form, except for those in the upper and higher tier, if that system is even used at all."[/i]

All three delegates from krulltor rise but only one addresses the speaker,

"Mister speaker if I may?"

A customary pause for acknowledgement,

"Krulltor has done away with the practice of retaining a supreme commander for it has been our experience that people seek these positions of power for personal gain as opposed to the betterment of its constituents, for this reason I would ask that we reconsider this tried and failed system."

"If the speaker would allow us one more comment."

Another of the trio steps forward, though he looks like the first speakers brother he sports a booming deep voice, one that has been cultivated barking orders on the battlefield.

"Krulltor has long awaited the chance to meet with other delegates and introduce ourselves to the global community, so to these ends we ask if this alliance will be strictly a military one or if it will promote the exchange of culture and ideas?"

All three take their seats and prepare for rebuttals to their comments.

"I would be willing to contribute a percentage of my forces or allocate monies to help pay for units of this alliance but I still stand by my previous statement that each nation should have a representative in a Governing Counsel of this alliance. There should be no "President". All nations involved should have an equal say."

"If I may comment sir, the organisation and co-ordination of such a force would be highly inefficient. I think, that perhaps it would be the Senate's job, or even perhaps the general assembly's job to decide on whether the initial use of the power would be warrented, and would have the power to decide to impeach if it is decided that the President's power had been abused. This should be enough to keep his power in check."

Let's just say a small percentage (4%) of your army can be called for duty when needed. No hassle about who's in or who isn't. If you can't or won't send your soldiers you must always make a donation to help the others as a compensation.

"And how would the alliance determine who is in the Senate? Would all parties involved have a representative inside it? This has to be fair for all involved. No nations should be made to feel like "Bottom Feeders" whilst the high-ups get to make all the descisions."

*The Kihamerian stands up,with a angry look on his face.*

"How is the Allience supposed to do anything if there isnt a slight bit of unity,ok its been proposed that we have higher,and lower tier members,and then maybe we could have higher and lower tiers based on political ideals,i think the whole 'tier' idea is foolish,the lower tier will want the privlages of higher tier members ,thusfore, i say we abolish it. if any former IADF members realise,the SC(high-tier) members of the IADF were the ones to leaves first !."

"All members should have free trade,if they wish, and full voting rights to the president,empeachment of the president,and so on. maybe a small council to use the military forces of the allience,so there isnt a massive debate on how to use the military forces. also, all members should donate to the allience force,but if they do or not they should not be held at a higher,or lower standard, this allience should not show favriotisim, a stable democracy is good to any allience. the following points i would like to mention:
Allience members should not be allowed to wage war on other allience members,this would cause a split in the allience.
A small council of 5 or less may be apointed to control a military force to the allience,i say this becasue a allience full of members it would be hard to get togather,and to get them to agree would be very difficult.
All allience members may have free trade with each other,unless some nation(s) wish to impose fee's on allience members,but i support free trade.
Once the constitution has be written with the basic rules of the allience the only way laws can be added is if the president,and at lease three-fourths of all members agree to add a law,this being said,any added laws must be precise in what they prohibit,leaveing no space for error. Again, to repeal a law the president and three-fourths of all members must agree.
no matter what,if a nation joins the allience that nation must hold no grudges against the contitution,it cannot be changed or breeched,if it is the nations responsible may be kicked out of the allience,if the action is serious enough military action may be taken. a nation may leave at any time after they join,but for them to re-join there must be a brief invetigation to make sure they have not done anything that would seriously breech the charter,and if needed a vote may be taken amongst the allience members to see if the nation should be allowed to join the allience."

"There should be no "High Tier" and "Low Tier" members. That isn't very equal nor is it effective. This alliance should be based on equality, not on who's bigger and better. I can say that I do NOT want to govern this nor do I want anyone else to. Everything should be equal. We all know what would happen with the High Tier and Low Tier idea:

Big nations would have all the power and the smaller nations would either have to go along with what the big guys do or leave. That just isn't a sucessful way to run this alliance. Equality is a must. I also support free trade and would invite all nations who wish to build embassies in my nation. Also, nobody should be forced to pay anything if they do not wish. If a nation does not support a motion for conflict, they should have the right to either deny support (Millitarily or financially) or donate a small portion of their troops or make a small financial contribution."

Major Sang Liu stands up, motioning to speak.

Representatives, the People's Republic of Kay Son is a relatively new country. Although we are interested in such an alliance- it is my government's belief that such a futhuring of the alliance on this proposed system is infringing upon the member state's sovereign rights. It was my government's understanding that such an alliance was to be along the UN model and not as complicated as you propose. It is my suggestion that- the proposal should be amended so that the rights of nations of their own will and right should be respected and not move towards a regional or an alliance state operating as a nation unto itself

"You miss the point of the tier system. It's not based on a nations political point of veiw... or at least not directly. It's based on trust. Seeing as all nations will be sharing intelligence are you seriously suggesting every nation attending this conference is trustable with all our intel?

"I've noted some shady nation, some are new to the international scene, some have a bad reputation. Clearly there is going to have to be some form of system to have nations on a probationary tier, then into a full member tier.


"Anyways, back to the Credonian point of view. You have to understand that any force, alliance or otherwise, takes time to mobilise. The chances are that in any situation when a member nation is attack (the only reason I can see a military mobilisation being excusable) there will be a force already in action; the forces of the defending member nation.

"Now I doubt that an alliance army could mobilise any faster then a equal sized allied army. Physically they would take the same amount of time.

"A better argument would be that an alliance army is easier to command as they will be united under one flag.

"However, this would mean that I have to trust another nation to use my forces affectively. When I would prefer just to use my own forces...

"Meanwhile, as for the suggestion that 4% of my army should be called for duty when needed? If I am under alliance rule to assist another member from a unprovoked attack I would have to do this anyways... the chances are I would use more then 4% od my forces, but they would be under my command.

Finally, the reason I'm opposed to an alliance army is that I would suspect that I would be forced into allied attack... which could mean my men get forced into an attack situation I'm not willing to agree with."

"There should be no "High Tier" and "Low Tier" members. That isn't very equal nor is it effective. This alliance should be based on equality, not on who's bigger and better. I can say that I do NOT want to govern this nor do I want anyone else to. Everything should be equal. We all know what would happen with the High Tier and Low Tier idea:

Big nations would have all the power and the smaller nations would either have to go along with what the big guys do or leave. That just isn't a sucessful way to run this alliance. Equality is a must. I also support free trade and would invite all nations who wish to build embassies in my nation. Also, nobody should be forced to pay anything if they do not wish. If a nation does not support a motion for conflict, they should have the right to either deny support (Millitarily or financially) or donate a small portion of their troops or make a small financial contribution."

Hmmm, what is being suggested a lot, is a system, similar to a direct democracy. Is this in itself a good method? And what about the possibility that we could get some kind of enemy, and flooding it with puppets, thus having the ability to push through destructive resolutions?

The Ciceran Delegate Loreen Amaya stood up, microphone in hand.

“I agree with Kihameria on one point, higher and lower tiers will only cause problems. There will be an unbalance in power if the two-tier system would go into affect. The lower tier members will have little say in the actions of the alliance. Everyone should have a say in elections, not just the senate. The senate should propose an idea, and all of the countries represented in the alliance should vote on the proposed idea. The alliance should be united as one, not two groups arguing amongst themselves.”

The delegate takes her seat.

"There should be no "High Tier" and "Low Tier" members. That isn't very equal nor is it effective. This alliance should be based on equality, not on who's bigger and better. I can say that I do NOT want to govern this nor do I want anyone else to. Everything should be equal. We all know what would happen with the High Tier and Low Tier idea:

Big nations would have all the power and the smaller nations would either have to go along with what the big guys do or leave. That just isn't a sucessful way to run this alliance. Equality is a must. I also support free trade and would invite all nations who wish to build embassies in my nation. Also, nobody should be forced to pay anything if they do not wish. If a nation does not support a motion for conflict, they should have the right to either deny support (Millitarily or financially) or donate a small portion of their troops or make a small financial contribution."

Hmmm, what is being suggested a lot, is a system, similar to a direct democracy. Is this in itself a good method? And what about the possibility that we could get some kind of enemy, and flooding it with puppets, thus having the ability to push through destructive resolutions?

So you do not agree that an "Equal Opportunity" type alliance isn't feasible? With all members in a governing counsel, if any nation decides to flood a region with puppets will get banned and ejected from the alliance. And who says that everyone's intel should be so freely distributed? I can accept the idea of a probationary tier, but it would still almost be like demeaning other nations. If Austar and Credonia thought that they were untrustworthy, they wouldn't have let them into the talks.

"Currently this sytem is unworkable. If the PResident has not enough power to make decision without the approval of the Senate and if the Senate cannot make decisions without the approval of yet another body, the alliance will be unable to keep ahead of events.

"In our opinion, the alliance shouldstop worrying about hieracrhy and beaurocracy but instead be simply a group of nation who share the same ideologies and agree to a mutual defence agreement. The alliance should not posses a military as there would no situation which would require it. For example if a member state was attacked, members of the alliance would be obligated to deploy their forces. Even if some cannot, others will be able to."

"The current proposals impose too greater restrictions on national soverignity. United Elias has over two billion citizens and one of the largest economies in the world. We do not wish to hand over this power to an internaltional body and I would argue that an alliance does not need to be based around that."

"As far as a two tier system is concerend, we are against this. Either you are committed to the goals of the alliance or you are not and there can be no half way point."

Grand Duke Reginald Leopold I stand and speaks:

Direct democracy is not viable in an organization such as this. However, that said, in an alliance of sovereign governments, the governing body of the alliance must not be chosen according to population. To do that would be giving the largest nations too much power over the smaller nations.

As for the recent concern of an enemy or someone flooding the alliance with puppets, if the entire governing council of this alliance had to vote on accepting new members, then this issue is a moot point.

The Grand Duke sits down.

Hattia, would of course come to the aid of an ally who was the victim of an unprovoked attack. About us donating forces to the alliance. Most Hattians, unlike myself are quite xenophobic, generally only trusting people from a few nations, such as Iuthia. Our soldiers would not fight well under the command of a foreign general, and with some of the large nations here, the president would have a very formidible army under his command, Hattia alone would have to donate over a million soldier to the alliance.

Also, was it ever decided how nations would get from the lower tier to the higher? Personally, I think it should be after a set period of time, unless there is suspicion that they would be a security risk.

Foreign Minister Lord Easton:

"I think we may have something of great importance to contribute to this discussion. If the delegates from the Austar Union and Credonia would TG our nation, we have an document that could solve most of the problems of the current proposal."

"Gentlemen, let us remember that this alliance will be internationalistic. A LOT more internationalistic than the IADF was. UE, we specifically stated that this would not be a totally defensive alliance. We will fight for what we believe in, we will actively combat terror, we will activly combat imperialism, that is something the IADF failed to do, which resulted in its demise. Now, as for the military is concerned, Mr. Richards stated that nations arent FORCED to commit troops and theyt dont have to, but they risk risking the image of their nation within the alliance if they dont and the entire alliance is behind military intervention.

Also, i think i need to be more clear on my proposed idea of the alliance having its own military. The purpose of having it as a Quick Reaction Force will be to instead of having to mobilize, they will already be mobilized and ready at a moments notice to gear up and ship out to wherever in the world. It may be a bit expensive, but it is VERY feasable. Credonia can donate $2 trillion to this endeavouer, and im sure thats more than enough to fund it for quite some time, to keep it mobilized day and night. Therefore, if we have this mobilized stroke force, it can be sent in to any combat arena and fight while primary military forces commanded by our own independent nations mobilize and head into the battle to relieve or back up the QRF."

That sounds good enough Credonia, we can easily circulate several regiments in and out of this strikeforce. Thank you for clearing up.

Minister Wernsman stood up and cleared his throat.

"Doujin will no doubt be willing to put forth a small taskgroup towards the "Alliance Military". However, military spending is high enough already. We can supply a Battleship, maybe a Carrier or two.. and some Cruisers.. as long as they are manned by another nation. We simply cannot afford to man them ourselves."

"It seems, from my point of view, that Credonia is interested in policing the world. How exactly does that contribute to international stability? And how can you define "combatting terror". Can you possibly show justification for war with a nation because of a terrorist group that may or not be funded by that nation? And proof of funding will most likely be largely biased by your intelligence services and the political views of your nation..

And in regards to Imperialism, I surely hope we will not be involving ourselves in matters like that unless it is requested by the -people- and not the government. It should be what the people of the nation want. If the people of a nation wants to become part of an Empire with another nation, then why should we step in and stop them?.

Minister Wernsman sat back down and took a drink of his water.

Eddie nodded in agreement with Iuthia. It had suddenly dawned on him that the two nations seemed to have a lot in common.

"For the record we support all that Iuthia has said regarding the use of a President and an allied army. If we are bound to commit forces, there seems little point in having to pre-contribute men.

However, I like Credonia's idea of a fast response team. I think this should be looked into more.

For the moment though, I think our friend from Doujin has hit the nail on the head. Before we start deciding upon structure, we surely need to know our aims. I think we all agree that terrorism and imperialism need to be countered. But I think we need hard definitions on each. It is also important we have other goals.

There is no point trying to get there until we know where we are going"

Peter stands once again;

"Gentlemen, i think we're all misunderstanding the idea of the two tier system.

The two tier system, will be used as a method to filter any untrustworthy nations from having access to important secret information. It does not work on a discriminatory basis, and is not based on "who is the biggest". All nations would most likely eventually have access to the upper tier, barring any of those who have showed a tendancy to be a bit untrustworthy.

The upper tier, will simply hold any nation, big or small, influential or not influential, rich or poor, which is known to have a true allegance with the alliance. Now, we will get some members, who perhaps will be spies for other alliances, or even worse, terrorist organisations. This is unadvoidable. The seperation of the alliance into two tiers is simply a precautionary method to stop these spies into the upper tier.

The Austar Union is part of an organisation, known as UnAPS, which uses this two tier system. It is a highly efficient alliance, and the system has been proven successful. Most of you will recognise my nation as a trustworthy nation, and yet we are in the lower tier. I do not consider myself discriminated against, or having a lesser value in the alliance. I simply consider my nation at having not yet proved myself trustworthy to UnAPS, something which they will eventually realise.

Now, the tier system could in fact become abolished, if some kind of policy was adopted in stopping nations from entering the alliance initially.

Perhaps some kind of time since independance / size of country rating could be adopted, such as a stop on all nations under 250 million from joining. This could also come with an extensive background check, and full intelligence report. Then the membership could be voted on by the entire assembly. But gentlemen, would this not only boost suspision amongst one another?

The tier system is simply a secruity measure. We do not see such a policy on infringing on equal rights, for all nations will have the equal right to be proven trustworthy. Nations will not be filtered by any other basis.

It also appears that the idea of mutual defense is under question. What I propose, is a system which is really based on choice.

A Quick Reaction Force could be established, for a simple method to ensure a quick reaction, and to have a minimum support quota. What we suggest, is that nations have a voluntary choice to commit troops, or money to the QRF. Such a commitment would be encouraged, but definatly not compolsury.

The QRF's commanding power would be placed in the hands of the President, and it would only be used in Defensive Situations Only. These situations would not come about too often, and any abuse of this power could be used as a reason to impeach the President. So in effect, the President would be unlikely to abuse such a privilage with a constant eye on his / her behaviour.

This QRF would unlikely act as a seperate army, but as a temporary method to aid the defense of an ally if in need. It would act soley as a Special Operations Unit, and would aid, only if the defense of a nation if it were invaded. The Quick Reaction Force would not be used in aggressive situations, and not on international campaigns.
Such a force has proved effective in alliances around the globe, such as NATO.

And as for the general defense of an allied nation, we propose that this defense should not be compulsory, however it would be highly encouraged, with the only punishment in place as the defamation of their own nation. Most nations would naturally aid an ally in times of need, and we believe it would be an infringment on national soverignty to FORCE a nation to help."

Brothers it has beome apparent that we need a definition of terrorism. I have prepared a simple dossier as a reference to guide ourselves on:

Offensive Terrorism

An attack may only be called an offensive terrorist attack if it meets the following requirements:

1) Attack is carried out anywhere
2) No real reason for attack specified
3) Only reason possible is to cause death or damage

Reasoned Terrorism

An attack may only be called a Reasoned Terrorist attack if it meets the following requirements:

1) Attack is carried out anywhere
2) A reason is given for the attacks
3) Death or damage is used to bring attention to their cause

Defensive Terrorism

An attack may only be called a Defensive Terrorist Attack if it meets the following requirements:

1) Attack is carried out in home nation, or ally's home nation.
2) Reason is for the defense of themselves, or their ally.
3) Target is conducting offensive operations against them, or their ally's interests.
4) Death or Damage is used to weaken the target's operations against them, or their ally.

Here are the positions we believe the alliance will take on, about all three tactics of terrorism:

Offensive Terrorism: The alliance would most likely regard this form of combat as simple evilness, and a product of a bloodthristy

Reasoned Terrorism: The alliance would undoubtably be against such a method to promote one's goals and ideals.

Defensive Terrorism: The alliance will undoubtably support such a method, if it were used as a last resort.

tag

Even though this is a closed RP, i just want to watch it :)

"Thank you for clearing the Tier system up. There should be a set period of time though, as perhaps one fellow nation may watch others graduate quickly as he stays without clearance. Perhaps we could work out a set time limit?"

OOC: I came back from school, and in six hours I was gone 3 and 1/2 pages of material was added. This is a little out of hand. I am proposing a 3 post maximum per nation per day, unless its an emergency. IC:

The Sicrati delegate stands up.

"I am in agreement with a small QRF, based on volunteer funding and a 1-4% mandatory troop donation. I do think this should be a Special Forces unit only. But I would like to bring forth the question in who would control such a QRF?


I am also in agreement with a probationary tier, however there should be some restrictions to it.

1.) It should not be descriminate due to nation size, so long as they are over 100 million people. (for Roleplay, behavioral, and Nationstates experiance).

2.) Countries with more than shady reputations should be put here.

3.) Nations can be in the probationary tear for no longer than 60 NS years.

We also like to raise the issue of Presidents as well. Sicrat is against such an idea, as we feel it is not neccessary in such an alliance."

Perhaps we should change the term from "President" to "Secretary-General". To too many nations that term President signifies the usurptation of sovereign power.

As for the issue of terrorism, while international terrorism should be a target of this alliance, what will be the response to domestic terrorism.

The issure of the Quick Reaction Force:

The QRF should not be larger than Corps size. It should be exactly what it says: A Quick Reaction Force. Such a force will come to the defense of an alliance member while the rest of the alliance is readying their militaries to respond. As for command of the QRF, such a force would have the Secretary-General, or President, as the Supreme Commander. The General Council of allied nations, or whatever it will be called, will be the Commander-in-Chief of the QRF. That way the QRF cannot be abused.

OOC: 3 post per day limit, you've got to be kidding me. You can't sanction how many times a person can post. These are talks, people ask questions and make proposals. Just because you don't have computer access doesn't mean the rest of us should suffer.

IC:

"Sixty years? That's preposterous! That's not a probationary term, that's a life sentence. I know you said UP TO, but that's a little long for a MAXIMUM term. I'd say more like five to ten NS years, that should determine whether or not someone has bad intentions or not."

OOC: My time approximation is 2rl weeks = 1NS year.

Moronicidiots President Aaron Schrock stands up to make his first statements of the meeting.

I have noticed that many people are against the idea of a President, but we HAVE to have one. I have seen numerous alliance collapse because they dont have a ruling figure to keep things running smoothly.

Secondly, I think you need to take a look at the ADN (alliance defence network). It is easily the largest alliance in the world. The amount of members in all of its member reigons, puts it into the 1000's of nations quite easily and yet it is also the most powerful and most organized alliance. If we were to base some of this alliance's principals off of theirs, then it could greatly benifit us.

At that moment his cell phone rings and he turns and walks away to take the call.

Moronicidiots President Aaron Schrock stands up to make his first statements of the meeting.

I have noticed that many people are against the idea of a President, but we HAVE to have one. I have seen numerous alliance collapse because they dont have a ruling figure to keep things running smoothly.

Secondly, I think you need to take a look at the ADN (alliance defence network). It is easily the largest alliance in the world. The amount of members in all of its member reigons, puts it into the 1000's of nations quite easily and yet it is also the most powerful and most organized alliance. If we were to base some of this alliance's principals off of theirs, then it could greatly benifit us.

At that moment his cell phone rings and he turns and walks away to take the call.

"Ah yes... a 'quick reaction force' that is always mobilised. I would like to note that small forces are easier to mobilise then larger forces and that a large force which is always mobile will cost alot of money.

"I'm quite happy to just be allied with other nation and to assist other nations when they are being attacked without good cause. I don't want to have to pay for the upkeep of a force which will still have to be mobilised in one way or another to the area thats being attacked, which will likely be in another nation.

"Some nations may feel shunned if they do not donate forces to a QRF, but Iuthia wouldn't. We deal with military issues the Iuthian way, heavy diplomacy followed my military prowess should it be required. Defence will be swift if required, but it wouldn't be a hammer.

"Whats more, I hate the word 'Internationalist', what the hell is that supposed to mean? If it means to start aimless attacks against 'terrorist' nations like the NWO has done then you can count Iuthia out.

"Terrorism is a delicate problem that should not be solved with a boardsword, as it would cause too much damage and offend the nation it's based in. Terrorism should be surgically removed with a scapel. This is something many nations have failed to understand. Colateral damage cause by anti-terror wars only breeds more terrorists.

"I'll be blunt... if Iuthia is going to be in another alliance, we expect nations to start acting like members of the internation community, not international bullies. We're not here for the additional power; we've got all the power we need. We're here for new connections and to steer a new alliance into more peaceful methods.

"Some nations my not like Iuthia, but we have long ago realised that we don't need to be in numberous alliances because they tie us down to nations we don't want to protect, we want to be in a alliance where don't feel embarressed by allies agression, where we'll be glad to protect our fellow nations."

We do see a need for a leader, however that leader should be a Secretary-General, not a President. For an organization of sovereign and independent nations a presidential system will not work. It must be a Secretary-General.

OOC: The 3 post limit in the alliance talks was just to make it a little easier to get your opinions out, while some of us are out of the loop. And a NS year is 1 day, so I don't think 60 NS years is too over the top, thats about 2 months.

OOC: The 3 post limit in the alliance talks was just to make it a little easier to get your opinions out, while some of us are out of the loop. And a NS year is 1 day, so I don't think 60 NS years is too over the top, thats about 2 months.

OOC: The RL/NS time thing has been in controversy for quite some time. I believe that half that time would be sufficient. Still, you have no right to put a damper on the number of times someone can post.

"This Quick Reaction Force is a great idea and Nazguul would be proud to not only donate equipment and a portion of it's specially trained soldiers but also set aside a generous portion of it's defense budget to keep it completely operational. I also agree with the Secretary General aspect but also want to enforce that a governing counsel should also be attatched to it's office."

We do see a need for a leader, however that leader should be a Secretary-General, not a President. For an organization of sovereign and independent nations a presidential system will not work. It must be a Secretary-General.

it makes no difference what he is called. It is still the same thing. A better term for him would be "Director"

It does make a difference. The duties and powers of a President, Secretary-General, and Director are all different.

"Sicrat would also provide some monetary assistance to a QRF, but not on a regular basis. We would also provide troops to a QRF.


We need to decide on who exactly would control said QRF. It is safe to assume we cannot effectively dividend control of the Corps QRF between multiple nations. 2-3 nations might be an exception, but Sicrat would feel more at ease if the QRF was put in place of a single nation."

It does make a difference. The duties and powers of a President, Secretary-General, and Director are all different.

The duties and powers he has are only what we decide to give him. Its not like theres something saying that this can only do this and this do this........

Sicrat- the QRF should not be under any one or two nations control.

We would reference you to our earlier statement:

As for command of the QRF, such a force would have the Secretary-General, or President, as the Supreme Commander. The General Council of Allied Nations, or whatever it will be called, will be the Commander-in-Chief of the QRF. That way the QRF cannot be abused.

"We would like to raise the point of the difficality of delegating the power of a small force between several nations. There could easily be deployment discrepencies between leaders, and such. However, as long as the QRF is not under control of the entire alliance, we find this acceptable.

Lazlo stands and challenges the Sicrat delegate...

"And who do you propose is to have said control? We're speaking of an ALLIANCE here. Not just three or four heavies who control everything while everyone else sits around like goons. There obviously wouldn't be a vote as to when and where the QRF would be put to use but there would a prioritized list of actions that should be carried out and a doctrine to follow for the QRF's deployment. This seems much more easy than giving full control to only a handful of alliance members."

I think my proposal on this issue satisfies both sides:

As for command of the QRF, such a force would have the Secretary-General, or President, as the Supreme Commander. The General Council of Allied Nations, or whatever it will be called, will be the Commander-in-Chief of the QRF. That way the QRF cannot be abused.

The Leader of the Alliance would have operational control, hence Supreme Commander, over the QRF, but the General Council of Allied Nations, or whatever it will be called, will be the Commander-in-Chief of the QRF.

"If what you are saying is that the Commander of the QRF is the secretary general, but The General Council of Allied Nations has the final say on where/how it is deployed, which I believe is what you are saying, that satisfies me completely."

"Thank-you, Hamptonshire, you just clarified my point completely."

Nazguul- You are welcome.

Sicrat- that is quite close to what I am saying.

Think about it this way:

Think of the NATO Supreme Commander, he has control over NATO forces in NATO sanctioned operations. Yet, the Heads of State/Government of the NATO nations are the commanders-in-chief of their respective militaries.

The Supreme Commander, Sec-Gen, has operational control but still must ultimately answer to the CinC, the General Council.

Satisfied with the progress these talks have been making, Lazlo, Hoefl and Sinning ask an orderly about dinner. Lazlo orders a much deserved whiskey.

"Yes, that satisfies me completely, and I feel most countries will be willing to adopt that policy for this alliance."

"Yes, that satisfies me completely, and I feel most countries will be willing to adopt that policy for this alliance."

The delegate for Axis Nova stands.

"At first I was a bit suspicious of this two tier system being proposed, but now I agree with Credonia. It's simple saftey-- there will be spies, whether we like it or not."

"A question: What will be the state of the alliance's relations with the UN, if any?"

Axis Nova

"That is an interesting and valid question, and I never assumed this alliance would be hostile to the U.N. in any way. We are all civilized nations here. We all realize that the U.N. stands for peace, am I right?"

(i was gone a few hours and like 2 and 1/2 pages were here,oh well...)



*the Kihamerian delegate stands again*

"the two tier system for safety....if a nation tries to join,only to find out that the naiton isnt trusted thats going to show how good of an allience we are to the NS world,we want new members not to trust them. i say we just study history,a decent pop,and we let them in."
"I think a QRF would be good,but a quick reaction force,not a quick reaction army,a few nations could donate the men and equipment,while other nations donate funding,that way all nations can donate just something to keep it going,and not impose on nations to donate equipment."
"i think that just president will work, but keep the democratic aspect sohuld always stay the same, and keep it simple, just call the president a president."

(ooc-maybe someone could open a temporary forum,no reaosn to worry about rouge ppl stirring up trouble without being invited,and better quality forums, no double posts andn o getting kicked off..)

OOC: Yeah, I was thinking a temporary ProBoards forum or something might do the trick.

OCC: Yeah, an external board would be much more efficient.

God ive missed a load, what with the Doujin crisis and all. But anyway, I would be willing to donate men and equipment if needed.

Ooc: I'm just watching and listening here people, so a friendly TAG woudn't hurt.

I have been so busy latlyy i forgot about this Thread can i please be updated on this thread?

Also noticed an Argument over the Structure of the Alliance becareful! Think about what happened to NWO!

Kayla chuckles at the mention of the NWO.

"Of course, the New World Order didn't care who was in the alliance, though it's a model for a alliance we don't want to copy. I mean they pretty much have any old person declaring their actions were 'for the alliance'. Then they declared war on terrorism as though it was a nation or something.

"One day nations will learn that dealing with terrorism takes finess, not upperbody strength.

"Now lets keep things simple. Do we all agree on a system of those who are trusted being in the higher tier, then those who we are unsure about who will fill the lower tier?

"As for a president of the alliance, such a nation which will start off being Austar Union, seeing as it's his idea and I trust they are cable of filling this role until we have individual elections.

"As for the presidents role in the alliance, I would argue that the president has an administative role. The president would be the alliances voice, they would be the alliances mediator; so if we have an arguement they would mediate it. Finally, the president would run votes on important issues such as what our alliance supports and nation promotion (from the lower tier to the higher tier).

Basically, the president isn't a ruler, instead he's the voice of the alliance members. This way we keep the alliance democratic. However, the most important thing is that no nation has the authority to speak for the alliance as a whole accept the president, or a elected offical, possibally a foriegn minister... we can't have any old member doing stupid things like attracting all of the worlds terrorists.

"The most important thing though is that the first higher tier members are trustable and will not drag me or any other nation into a conflict we can't be assed with. I will not defend a nation that has declared war on a load of nation...

"Finally and most importantly, we would reserve our right to get up and leave should the alliance take a turn for the worse. So far this alliance is an international interest, but we don't trust it not to turn into something we don't like. In which case we'll leave quietly. I've already stated that Iuthia doesn't need this alliance for power, only because we want a say in another alliance."

I say we have to create a funds for most of the alliance spendations. If every member donates 10 billion (we can always talk about the exact amount of money) each year then we have a stabile economy, can give out loans and we can pay soldiers who serve for the alliance.
Assuming we're not a warmongering alliance we have money to burn in that way. Especially when we give out loans for a cumulative interest rate to non alliance nations. In that way we have secured two kinds of income, interest and obligatorily donation. The donation can be seen as a membership fee. But we can't allow nations to buy themselves a place in this alliance.

Agreed. I will need to mention though, that Hogsweat will not be able to loan out money for a while, because we will need to rebuild our nation.

"I agree that the President could be the voice of the alliance but I don't want to jump the gun. I'd say a vote would be much more efficient. Not just one nation recommending someone and everyone else going along. I also agree to the donation of funds towards the alliance and the tier system."

"I am in agreement as well. However, I think members in the probationary tier of the alliance should be exempt from the taxation untill the point at which it is promoted to the primary tier and is under the full protection of the alliance. I also think that the amount of a donation should be fixed per (Real life) week. This should help keep nations that are without neccessary experiance out of the alliance."

I also agree with the tier system. Long standing members should have more rights than a young member.

"Not more rights, per say just more trust. Remember, just because someone's on the lower tier doesn't mean that they should be looked down on. Generally, the lower tier members will be smaller nations and unfortunately they will be scrutinized. I agree when they say to not share all the same intel but rights has nothing to do with it. It's all a level of trust."

"Well, Nazgul I might remind you that if, for example, someone in the probationary tier declares war on several nations for little or no reason, no one in the alliance should be expected to assist that nation."

"i still do not approve of the tier system,the allience will be partially split as long as the two-tier system remains,and like i said, if a few nations donate military forces to the QRF(quick reaction force) and other nations just supply funding it should work out. and before anything else,we should find common ground,anti-imperialisim ? anti-terrorisim ? the first would be easier to acomplish,but may be corrupting, if the alliences rallys and fights imperialisim on evrey front eventually the allience mayb be influenced by imperialisim,and take a warlike path,whereas fighting terrorisim is a much more touchy subject,we cant attack a nation that harbors terrorists and expect terrorisim to stop,we must uproot terrorisim, i duobt there is a way to convert terrorists per se,but maybe just getting rid of terrorist cells in member-nations,so the terrorists cannot attack member nations,and possibly if we find a easy way to acomplish this,simply tell a few terrorist-ridden nations how to do away wtih terrorisim,eventually the terrorists should eradicate themselves sence they have no easy way,or much less any way to get into enemy nations."

"The probationary tier members a welcome to do whatever they like as long as they don't do anything stupid and expect the alliance to help them. You've got to use common sense. I believe Iuthia explained it best that an "Anti-Terror" alliance would do no good as all it does is create more terrorists. Once again, we must use finesse when dealing with terror, not muscle.

This all boils down to common logic. The probationary tier members should not expect full alliance support if they decide to go galavanting around with their chests puffed out because of the support they have. This also boils down to the "Secretary-General" and "Governing Counsel" aspect of this alliance. Making key descisions is imperative. Hence, those two aspects of the alliance make the descisions and the SecGen announces them."

"i did mention,you cant just go around and kill terrorists with special op's and except terror to stop,you gotta root-out terrorisim from the inside. "
"say what you will,i still dont like the two-tier system,if nations are so uptight about intel they should keep it to themselves,or distrubte it as they feel needed within the allience. the tier system may be good,but it would still cause a split within the allience,and if soem nations goes around braging about there military prowess and except allience support when they get invaded, the allience QRF should assist nations without discgression, but it shouldnt be overused, just to protect vital points until help can arrive from other nations. also, i think that the president should not have complete control,as absolute power corrupts absolutley, all member nations should be kept under the charter, nobody should have absolute power over any aspect of the allience..."

"Anyone in the second tier of the two tier system would not be in there for long. a 1 month or so (RL time) probationary period is all that should be required. I understand your intent, Kihamerian delegate, but it is unrealistic to believe that new members can be treated like members that have been in the alliance for months. A time to learn the ropes is required."

"Anyone in the second tier of the two tier system would not be in there for long. a 1 month or so (RL time) probationary period is all that should be required. I understand your intent, Kihamerian delegate, but it is unrealistic to believe that new members can be treated like members that have been in the alliance for months. A time to learn the ropes is required."

I agree we should enforce an anti terror policy but we must not interfere in every situation involving terrorist and or terrorist activities in a nation. Only if terrorists pose a true threat to one of the alliance members or there has been an attack in one of the alliance members. I suggest that we must not be classified as an anti terrorist squad created to kill all suspected terrorists.

"That's all fine and dandy but what about retaliation? If we just storm out on the world scene declaring our hate for terrorists they may purposely target us. We mustn't jump the gun here. The QRF isn't a Terrorist Termination Squad, it's a Quick Reaction Force designed to eliminate threats against nations in the alliance.

It shouldn't be used by one or two nations who decide they want to eliminate terrorism from the NS World. It would be impossible and I won't support it."

"I am in agreement with Nazguul. I am against armed intervention against terrorists that do not target nations in this alliance."

True, true. Although I have to admit terrorism is one of the most threatening things in today's society, we must not run around with guns drawn. This would create even more terrorism in the world.

"now i didnt say the QRF was an anti-terror squad,or a quick army to kill evreyone, as it stands this is a defensive allience and the QRF is for defensive purposes, and also i belive evrey civilized allience and even most civilized nations are anti-terrorist, they dont go around attacking terrorists, and we should be anti-terrorist, but not as outspoken as you all are thinking,we wont go around attacking terrorists on sight, but just keep an eye on terrorist activities, and maybe speak out against it,but as it has been said,only take military action if it threatens the allience directly. and if we just put all the new members into a lower tier they may not give us any information,if you think, whatk ind of nations are terrorist ? not the nations will billion populations and large militarys and big ion cannons,but smaller nations,not larger ones,if we just go about and doubt small nations may not be trustable, a just arguement,but they may have vital information on terrorist attacks."

(ooc- if you see it,go into the "hogsweat infromation" or something and look at the replies, SoT is planning something,or so he said.)

"We still see no need for a QRF, as such I am not willing to 'donate' money to something I see as pointless.

"Meanwhile I would prefer to deal with terrorism in my own way. Which is to assist friendly nations with their terrorist problems and to condemn nations which have supported terrorism."

"You should have the right to do that. I do see the need for the QRF and have already expressed the desire to support the fashioning of it."

"I believe we need to have a few votes sometime soon- some of which are:


QRF or Not?

2 tier system, or no tier system?

President or SecGen?

Anti-Terrorist or Anti-Agressive Terrorists? (Agressive-terrorist being basically a terrorist organization that has attacked an allied nation)

What say you guys?"

"We still see no need for a QRF, as such I am not willing to 'donate' money to something I see as pointless.

"Meanwhile I would prefer to deal with terrorism in my own way. Which is to assist friendly nations with their terrorist problems and to condemn nations which have supported terrorism."

"I thank the honourable representative from Iuthia once again for making this point. Indeed, his previous comments have echoed strongly our own thoughts that the alliance should not be 'internationalist' and should not utilise its own army. Also there are may points to whcih United Elias cannot possibly agree.

"For example the proposal on the definition of terrorism is utterly bogus. It condemns terror against our citizens but it condones other types of terror, a contradiction in terms. Terrorism is the act of killing non-combatants for the purposes of highlighting a cause, ideology or grievance. It cannot be divided into three tiers and none of it can be condoned by any civilised alliance.

"Credonia has proposed that the alliance openly fight 'iperialism', my nation, currently involved in bringing democracy to the nation of Gabon and liberating it people from a terrorist regime, was subjected to an investigation by the IADF even though I was a member of the security council. Why was United Elias deemed an imperialist for fighting a group that attempted to detonate a radiological weapon in our homeland considered imperialism when Credonia's balatant takeover of foreign governments was considered legitimate? Credonia is openly called an Empire, yet it wishes to fight imperialism by others. This strikes me as an attempt to monopolise the business of conquest rather than to oppose it.

"To conclude, if these talks do not progress towards a more rational and less of a federalist concept where each state would only be a member of a larger group of thugs who would make all foreign policiy decisions on behal of its members, I will be faced with no choice other than to leave. I will not allow United Elias to become involved in bloody conflicts that are meaningless and akin to gang warfare between pacts and alliances. United Elias is a powerful nation and as a powerful nation it is our duty to use the power with responsibility and decency. Since our unification, we have only been involved in two major conflicts, the same cannot be said for the much younger nations of Credonia and Austar Union. The motto of my nation is, "Peace Through Strength," and in my opinion this new alliance would suit the slogan, "Tyranny through numbers", unless these dicussions take a radically different approach.

"I openly agreed with Iuthia on the terrorism issue, but do support a QRF for DEFENSE of the nations within the alliance. Not a Terrorist Terminating Squad. I will not support nations who wish to use this alliance to warmonger and throw around weight. We all know of Credonia's past and that's unfortunately something we have to consider when voting in issues.

However, we are not here to complain about the past. We are here to ensure our future and good relations with other nations through this alliance. I see no need for you to leave just because you do not agree with something. You have the right to voice your opinion and put forth an issue of your own. If you refuse to support the QRF, there are others here that will supply the equipment and funds to fashion it so the issue of yourself and Iuthia's refusal is moot.

I really don't think that this alliance will operate under the "Tyranny Through Numbers" notion as you believe. I know that I will not let it. Hence the reasoning behind my more democratic take on this alliance. Sure, there would be one voice (SecGen) but that is only to voice the ENTIRE opinion of the alliance. Hence the reasoning behind my Governing Counsel. Give these talks a chance, friend, this is the first that I've heard from you."

"We still see no need for a QRF, as such I am not willing to 'donate' money to something I see as pointless.

"Meanwhile I would prefer to deal with terrorism in my own way. Which is to assist friendly nations with their terrorist problems and to condemn nations which have supported terrorism."

"I thank the honourable representative from Iuthia once again for making this point. Indeed, his previous comments have echoed strongly our own thoughts that the alliance should not be 'internationalist' and should not utilise its own army. Also there are may points to whcih United Elias cannot possibly agree.

"For example the proposal on the definition of terrorism is utterly bogus. It condemns terror against our citizens but it condones other types of terror, a contradiction in terms. Terrorism is the act of killing non-combatants for the purposes of highlighting a cause, ideology or grievance. It cannot be divided into three tiers and none of it can be condoned by any civilised alliance.

"Credonia has proposed that the alliance openly fight 'iperialism', my nation, currently involved in bringing democracy to the nation of Gabon and liberating it people from a terrorist regime, was subjected to an investigation by the IADF even though I was a member of the security council. Why was United Elias deemed an imperialist for fighting a group that attempted to detonate a radiological weapon in our homeland considered imperialism when Credonia's balatant takeover of foreign governments was considered legitimate? Credonia is openly called an Empire, yet it wishes to fight imperialism by others. This strikes me as an attempt to monopolise the business of conquest rather than to oppose it.

"To conclude, if these talks do not progress towards a more rational and less of a federalist concept where each state would only be a member of a larger group of thugs who would make all foreign policiy decisions on behal of its members, I will be faced with no choice other than to leave. I will not allow United Elias to become involved in bloody conflicts that are meaningless and akin to gang warfare between pacts and alliances. United Elias is a powerful nation and as a powerful nation it is our duty to use the power with responsibility and decency. Since our unification, we have only been involved in two major conflicts, the same cannot be said for the much younger nations of Credonia and Austar Union. The motto of my nation is, "Peace Through Strength," and in my opinion this new alliance would suit the slogan, "Tyranny through numbers", unless these dicussions take a radically different approach.


"See, this is where you are HIGHLU mistaken, when did Credonia openly force a nation to surrender, and then seize power? Name ONE instance where we have..Also, i wont disagree to the point that Credonia has openly called itself an Empire, BUT, what you must remember is that ALL of its territories were GIVEN to us, not forced. Two were bought (Ezelkan and Damn you germans) and ceceded into Credonian control, while the other (Stapestry) was ceded into Credonian control by the former (RL) leader of that nation. Hamil was ceded becuase the government didnt want to fight. Our main purpose for going into hamil was to seek out the terrorists that attacked Credonia and its allies. We had no intention of taking over. Even UE got involved in the attack on Hamil, so dont even dare say we are imperialistic. We ceded ALL of our territories. We never annexed them. Check the facts before speaking about something that you dont have all the facts on."

"My point is simple. If people feel they must have a QRF then they should at least understand that contribution isn't compulsory. We won't accept a demand to fund such a force, but we won't deny the rest of the alliance should they feel they need it. We just think it's pointless.

"My reasoning is that any alliance military force created can't really be too many places at once, so their ability to mobilise quickly is moot point if they still have to travel for two weeks to reach the attacked nation.

"I can mobilise my own forces (nothing huge, the bigger the force the slower the mobilisation) at the same speed and help out an attacked nation.

"From my point of view is that I can defend my allies better if I didn't hand over forces to someone else and instead used my own forces if I felt the need is justified... keeping control in my hands. Others can have their QRF but I'm not going to bother donating to it.


"Meanwhile, I would like a definition of 'Internationalist' before I even agree to the idea that we are meant to be a 'Internationalist' alliance. I'm thinking of increasing Iuthia's political links in exchange for added protection to other nations. I'm not joining an alliance which will look into someone elses problem then flex its muscles to try and solve it... which seems to be some nations way of solving issues."

"Any Nation that calls itself an empire seems to me slightly imperialistic, in my mind at least. i think a QRF is a good idea,but as Iuthia said, it might be two weeks away from where it needs to be, and that brings up the question of where it will be stationed, i think this changes my opinion on the subject, any nations wanting a QRF can supply their own men,and fund them therselves, a string of nations doing this would probably reach anywhere in the world in a decent ammount of time. but i am still agaisnt the two-tier system, i think president sounds better than SecGen, and i think a anti-terrorist stand is better,all terrorists are violent,if theyre peacefull now,they'll attack someone sooner or later."

The delegate from Axis Nova hurriedly interrupts the growing argument.

"Gentlemen, gentlemen. Please! Restrain yourselves! We are here to arrive at something agreeable to all of us, not to toss threats and insults back and forth."

"We have a large enough group here that we could create a QRF with troop contributions only from some nations, without needing all. Since this would by nature be kept relatively small, I fail to see the problem. If your nation does not wish to supply troops, money, or supplies to the QRF, that is your choice."

"Arguing about the definition of a terrorist is a waste of time; we'd be here for months. I propose we just set forth a blanket condemnation of terrorism, and let the various terrorists out there take that as they may. If an Alliance nation is attacked by terrorists, we should only move to assist them if they request it; the same holds true for non-Alliance nations."

"Finally, the former deeds of Credonia are not an issue here. Neither are what some nations call themselves-- Axis Nova is a democracy, yet we call ourselves a republic... Names are unimportant, it is how your nation acts that matters."

The delegate sits back down, and takes a sip from a glass of water.

Axis Nova

Jonathon Wernsman stood up yet again.

"Ahem, may I have everyones attention?"

Pushing a button a large screen quickly unfolded.

"I would like everyone here to be able to witness one of most important events in Maritime Military Forces, the launch of the Doujin. I'm sure you all have heard about her."

The datastream between the Doujin Satellite Network streamed down the coverage of the Doujin leaving the drydock and being tugged to the middle of the Harbor, along with the spectacular pyrotechnic display going on.

" I believe Axis Nova put that quite well."

OCC: Can someone sum up what has happened the last 2 days? Iv been busy with baseball.

ooc-basically we are aruging over the QRF,Terrorisim,the tier system, and if it sohuld be president of secgen.

ic-
"Congradulations on the laucnh of youre boa...ship Doujin, can we get on with these talks ? lets have a vote on each subject in the spirit of democracy,so that if a nation doesnt like it,they can leave the talks, anyone agree ?"

"Lets give it about a day for each vote, so that every nation in the talks can respond."

OOC: Well, let's do the SecGen how the RL UN does it?

ooc-i dont like the NS UN or the RL UN,so i think president would be better,should that be the first voting ? i say we wait untill tommorow so eveyone see's my idea before we get voting.

ooc: agreed.

OOC: I meant electing wise

The EESF diplomat proposes a different system entirely.
EESF Propasal
A) 20 member Senate that would evualte and create rules.
B) A President that would merely act as a head figure of the alliance but have no real power without the Senate's approval.
C) A general's assembly consisting of the top general from every nation to command the Alliance Army.
D) A 15 Judicial Council to punish those of who break the rules of the alliance and have the power to either eject or accept members into the alliance.

Concerning the Allaince Army
Each nation would either donate $5,000,000 dollars annualy to the AA or supply 5% of your army to the AA. Also WMDs would never be used without the Senate's approval.

Terrorism
No terrorism, no matter how admirable should be supported.
"This is our government's ideal proposal, please read over this document carefully."

"Kihameria dissapproves of the EESF Proposal on all issues,except (B) and the anti-terrorist stance."

"Or conversly instead we could allow the chairman of this conference; Austar Union, take all views into acount and prepose an alliance structure.

"This is their idea and it would seem that we wouldn't be here without them. So why not let them take all the ideas they like and give it to us in a single document which we can then all argue over individually.


"Getting back to the issues raised; I would prefer that we keep the alliance neutral in terrorist affairs, but allow individual nations deal with terrorism as we see fit. Should one nation have a problem with another nations support for/against terrorist groups we could have a alliance vote of the issue, run by the President/SecGen to determine the alliances point of veiw on the issue... like all things in life terrorism isn't something you can classify; each case has it's pros and cons, which with why Iuthia doesn't make a point of being entirely against terrorism.

"While I agree that any definition of terrorism is pointless, I feel it should be known that supporting: Rebels, Freedom Fighters and/or Terrorists is one and the same, the name depends on who is looking at the situation.


"Finally, while some nations may feel that old issues should be laid to rest, I personally feel that Iuthia thinks differently. We are prepared to accept nations did bad things in the past and that they are different... but we are not prepared to ignore it completely. History is there for a reason, we remember so that we don't make the same mistakes. We remember so we have a case history of a nations attitudes and beliefs...

"There are many nations here that Iuthia isn't entirely comfortable with, but for the time being we trust that all nations wishing to join arn't here to hide behind allies for their future wars.... I will disband this entire idea if I feel that members will only use this as additional military support for their imperailism.

"Should my expectations be to high, we are prepared to leave this and allow people to set up their alliance as they wish... at the request of Austar Union of course. But we feel that currently this is not required. Iuthia is only in one organisation... we arn't in this to brag about how many nations will protect us, we're in this out of peaceful interests."

"I feel that I must stress the need for a Secretary-General, not a President.

I also completely agree with Iuthia's stance on Terrorist Affairs.

I must also restate that Hamptonshire's Plan for the QRF Command makes the most sense in an organization such as this."

"I think the name of the President/Secretary General makes little difference if we've already decided that it represents a administrative position with limited powers, albeit a little more power then everyone else. There is no need to be complicated about it."

whoa! i just got back, and the thread jumped a few pages, what's been going on?

OOC: To much time on our hands... we need to be more efficient but the gist of it is that we're trying to get a general idea of what we want the allaicne to be like.

I've proposed that Austar Union takes the ideas he likes and presents a structure for the alliance that we can look over objectively.

Otherwise it's just alot of dicussion which hasn't got very far.

Peter Richards stands;

"I apoligise if I have been a bit quiet during these talks. I have just been watching the views of the general assembly.

Firstly, I would like to say that I am honored to be nominated as the first SecGen / President of the alliance, until first elections. My secretaries are currently working on a full structure proposal.

Now, I can see that we all agree that a QRF should be established, but only is a commitment is to voluntary. I think this is fair, therefore I put this to a vote: ( http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=2997537#2997537 )

We do see a need for the establishment of a two tier system. It has proved highly successful in alliances such as the UnAPS.

We have observed that the idea of actively fighting terrorism has been contriversial, therefore we propose the idea that some form of a mini-organisation be established, which alliance members have the choice to be a part of. This organisation would be dedicted to fighting terrorism, and would actively participate in operations around the globe. Of course, this organisation would not be a reflection of the entire alliance.

We would like to also propose the idea of some kind of membership fee to the alliance. This fee would go towards teh betterment of alliance goals."

Jonathon Wernsman stood up yet again and cleared his throat.

"If a mini-organization was established within the alliance for combating terrorism, we would rather prefer that Credonia not have a leadership role. Taking into account Credonia's past in regards to invasions under the guise of a "War on Terror" we believe it might be best for the alliance that the nation not be given any leadership responsiblities in that aspect."

"Of course, we would need to discuss such a mini-organisation. Would it be subject to the general assembly, or would it rather be considered a seperate alliance, under the name of this one?", commented Peter, "I personally do think it should be subject to the general assembly."

"Credonia, I apologise for being mis-infomed, I thought you conquered all those nations but even if they were attained peacefully it can count as imperialsm. My point is that imperialsm is not neccesarily a bad thing. I highlighted your case not to criticise but to show that rather like terrorism, imperialism is not a black and white thing, terrorist is to freedom fighter as imperialist is to liberator. This is why we want such a clause removed from teh allaine charter."

"Lord General deGritz, leader of the Iuthian peolpe, used to be in charge of an anti-imperialist alliance which was orginally founded in responce to a threat from an bunch of nations looking to invade others for their land.

"However, once he became the leader of this alliance he noticed that some members were a little indesciminant about what sort of nations we were against.

"Ulitimately we had to dissect the dictionary meaning of the word "imperialist" and then he used this word to show how imperialism can be a great many things.

"For example, it is imperialistic to create a colony on new land, even if their are no inhabitants. So, like you say there are many meanings of the word... however some there scenarios we can never support... overall it's important to judge each case by its cons and merits. They are never really the same, doing it by the book isn't something you can always do.

"So perhaps a general policy outlining what kind of imperialism we are again."

Despite just countering terrorism, Raginsheep believes that any alliance should also try to address the roots of terrorism as well.

Obviously, we may need to combat terrorism of all forms. But this will be the job of the anti-terrorist sub-organisation.

What does everyone think about having a membership fee. This would add funds to the betterment of the organisation.

Jonathon Wernsman stood up yet again and cleared his throat.

"If a mini-organization was established within the alliance for combating terrorism, we would rather prefer that Credonia not have a leadership role. Taking into account Credonia's past in regards to invasions under the guise of a "War on Terror" we believe it might be best for the alliance that the nation not be given any leadership responsiblities in that aspect."

"Credonia has had reason to invade all of the nations it has, with the exception of HLF, which the invasion by credonia was even questionable by Credonian standards, HOWEVER, just because of one incident in the past, that doesnt mean that I am not a good leader. Many of the people in the IADF would agree that i was indeed a good leader. Afterall, i did organize and put together the alliance, and established the original constitution which went nearly unamended. You have no right to discriminate against us just because of one incident thta was well in the past. If we were to have continued to do it, then thats another matter, but it happened ONCE. The rest of the invasions, there have been certain UNDENIABLE proof, and we had the FULL support of IADF member nations. I am outraged that you would try to deny us the right to lead such an alliance based on one bad incident that happened WELL in the past. Have you overlooked the changed Credonia has made in its foreign policies and in its military aggressiveness to prevent such a thing from happening again, or are you just as narrow minded as the terrorists are that try to continue to give Credonia a bad name by using that one incident as a tool for trying to ruin our reputation. I am perfectly capable of running this alliance, smoothly and efficiently, without loosing a temper as i have in the past."

Hwan steps forth and requests a minute of time.
"Gentlemen if we may, it is clear that NO TERRORISM is to be supported and that we would have to do something about imperalists, but we still need to clarify what privalages the President / Secetary General would have. Piroities are of the upmost important if this allinance is to prevail."

The Sicrati main delegate stands again:


"I am for an initial member key, and I am for mandatory upkeep fees paid by all nations, allthough these upkeep fees would not include funding to the QRF."

Jonathon Wernsman stood up yet again and cleared his throat.

"If a mini-organization was established within the alliance for combating terrorism, we would rather prefer that Credonia not have a leadership role. Taking into account Credonia's past in regards to invasions under the guise of a "War on Terror" we believe it might be best for the alliance that the nation not be given any leadership responsiblities in that aspect."

"Credonia has had reason to invade all of the nations it has, with the exception of HLF, which the invasion by credonia was even questionable by Credonian standards, HOWEVER, just because of one incident in the past, that doesnt mean that I am not a good leader. Many of the people in the IADF would agree that i was indeed a good leader. Afterall, i did organize and put together the alliance, and established the original constitution which went nearly unamended. You have no right to discriminate against us just because of one incident thta was well in the past. If we were to have continued to do it, then thats another matter, but it happened ONCE. The rest of the invasions, there have been certain UNDENIABLE proof, and we had the FULL support of IADF member nations. I am outraged that you would try to deny us the right to lead such an alliance based on one bad incident that happened WELL in the past. Have you overlooked the changed Credonia has made in its foreign policies and in its military aggressiveness to prevent such a thing from happening again, or are you just as narrow minded as the terrorists are that try to continue to give Credonia a bad name by using that one incident as a tool for trying to ruin our reputation. I am perfectly capable of running this alliance, smoothly and efficiently, without loosing a temper as i have in the past."

"Regardless, under this alliance it will not be your responsibility to rid the world of terrorism as you once tried to do. Can you honestly tell me that it worked? I know that it didn't. There are terror cells all over the place and if you or anyone decides to rid them from the NS world under the name of this alliance I will not support you.

Granted, many of your actions were just. Many of your actions were with cause but it still seemed as though you were only henpecking your way into others' affairs. You nor anyone else here will do that. This alliance should be beneficial to all parties involved not only a few."

"Credonia was not meddling into others affairs. With all the nations i invaded, they performed some kind of attrocity against a close friend or ally of Credonia, which warranted immediate action after numerous threats and chances to help eliminate terrorists within their nation. Some of those nations came close to being invaded, but because Credonia PERSISTED on diplomacy, peace treaties were signed. Credonia has not interfered with the affairs of other nations unless absolutly necessary, and with each nation that we have invaded, they have been involved with us, prompting our response as was stated. With that being said, Credonia has always protected, and defended its friends and allies from enemies. Any enemy of our friends and/or allies, are enemies of ours and we will do what it takes to protect them, whether it warrants a preemptive strike to prevent attrocities from happening against our friends and allies again, or whether it is a retalitory attack. Check the history books (past threads). Even in our war on terror, we have never meddled in other nations affairs without them being linked to us in some way shape or form. I rest my case on this issue as my point is clear and well defended."

"As I stated in the beginning, I never doubted most of your methods. I simply stated that if you use this alliance to do what sounds like warmonger to me, I will not support you. Plain and simple. I do however, see you as a fit and capable candidate to run this alliance and perhaps you will recieve my vote when the time comes to elect our administration."

"Thank you, lets continue with the negotiations shall we, no more about Credonia and its past crusades as they are not an issue anymore"

"We should really define our policy on Terrorism. The QRF has already come to vote and it looks like a landslide."

Rift stands up, clearing his throat a bit.

"Its good to see that we form a (almost) solid front on this issue. Altough I am not saying we should follow the majority of the alliance, how unpopular it might be, give your own oppinion."

He sits down again and looks around the room.

"I am for a restrained war on terrorist cells that oppose the will of the alliance. As for an agressive war on terror, I cannot say I support that. Sicrat has been relatively free of terrorism since its inception, and does not wish to become a target."

"Agreed. We have been totally free of terrorism and also do not wish to become targets. Although our borders are extremely well guarded."

Well, of course, a fight on terrorism itself would only be restricted to this mini-organisation, and not involve the entire alliance. This mini-organisation would only be voluntary to join.

The Austar union has a small history with terrorism, however we have had one successful international terrorist hit our homeland. Of course, since then, we have in fact managed to avert all attacks due to new security measures being put in place.

We have only fought terrorism against those who are in opposition to either ourselves, and our allies. What are other-people's views on the idea of a mini-organisation being established?

Well, of course, a fight on terrorism itself would only be restricted to this mini-organisation, and not involve the entire alliance. This mini-organisation would only be voluntary to join.

The Austar union has a small history with terrorism, however we have had one successful international terrorist hit our homeland. Of course, since then, we have in fact managed to avert all attacks due to new security measures being put in place.

We have only fought terrorism against those who are in opposition to either ourselves, and our allies. What are other-people's views on the idea of a mini-organisation being established?

"Getting back to the issues raised; I would prefer that we keep the alliance neutral in terrorist affairs, but allow individual nations deal with terrorism as we see fit. Should one nation have a problem with another nations support for/against terrorist groups we could have a alliance vote of the issue, run by the President/SecGen to determine the alliances point of veiw on the issue... like all things in life terrorism isn't something you can classify; each case has it's pros and cons, which with why Iuthia doesn't make a point of being entirely against terrorism.

"While I agree that any definition of terrorism is pointless, I feel it should be known that supporting: Rebels, Freedom Fighters and/or Terrorists is one and the same, the name depends on who is looking at the situation." Kayla repeats herself.

"Iuthia unwilling to join any alliance which would dictate our foriegn policy regarding this issue and many others. While we are against terrorism to the point where we have assisted both Credonia and Holy Panooly with terrorism at home; we do have allies that are willing to support rebelion in other nations, like Feline who holds a storefront specifically to help nations trying to break their oppressive regime.

"This is not to say that Iuthia agrees with these nations, we judge terrorism on a case-by-case system which doesn't pidgeon hole terrorist into a poorly made sterotype. We have no real objections to Credonia's method of dealing with terrorist, hown their nation deals with each case against them is their matter; however we would object to being forced into any 'War against Terror' as we personally view them as being pointless affairs...

"As for Credonia being in charge of any part of the alliance... well, such a thing would first require a vote on their leadership. So whether Credonia likes it or not they will have to accept that some nations will look at Credonia's foriegn policy when concidering their vote. Of course, that would depend on their being a vote in the first place as Credonia hasn't applied for any position of power. Our own opinion on this isn't important and shall be kept to ourselves... though should a vote take place we would explain our reasons openly for any choice we make; good or bad."

"In my opinion, it is not safe. Mini-Organization or not, it will still reflect on the alliance as a whole. The members of the mini-organization are still a part of the alliance therefore it may be percieved that the alliance is acting together as one.

With that said, however, I am willing to risk it as long as Nazguul may be a part of it. I already have one regiment of my armed forces which is titled GruppePanzerTruppenZier, which is similar to this QRF which we voted on. It would be a valuable asset and tool to the organization. With little hesitation, Nazguul will support the idea."

" I feel the mini-organization is an interesting prospect, but I doubt at this time that Sicrat would join that wing of the alliance. My only concern is the fact that I believe if some terrorists see any of the members of this alliance striking out against them, that they would retaliate against any/all members of the alliance."

(ATTN all attendees: http://s6.invisionfree.com/ns_alliance/ )

I have opened up a private forum, of which nations can continue this entire conference there.

OOC: Should we immediately move there? Or continue the talks here?

OOC: move there now