NationStates Jolt Archive

As the night falls over the dry dock where the Doujin "Doujin Class Flagship" is being constructed a squadron of 3 b-4 hypersonic stealth bombers passes into into Doujin Airspace. Cruising high in the stratosphere the planes are virtually undetected. Each packed with one 3 megaton nuclear device.

Squardron Leader: This is Eagle eye, we have penetrated Doujin airspace succesfully and are approching target area.

Unknown commander: We understand Eagle Eye, commence operation "Sun rise".......... farewell

Squardron Leader: All planes, start dive flight.

As the 3 planes start banking down into the athmosphere, their speed stared to rise letting the planes become balls of fire, they would have been destroyed if it wasn't for the keramic heat shield on the hull, which could burn up any second now.
As the ground came closer the 3 planes raced through the clouds.
There it was, the Doujin drydock. the very essence of Capitalism, the pride of it's navy still in construction, now defenceless

The Squardron leader gazed onto the construction area, as the ground came near.

Squardron leader: squardron, arm the devices,

he reached for the master switch as suddenly Aircraft 2's heat shield broke up and completly evaporated in the athmosphere, only two planes left, it was a risk that had to be taken against these capitalist infidels.

The nukes were armed and ready, the ground came closer....fast.

700m above the ground the two nuclear devices were activated...........the last thing the squardron leader saw was a blinding flash as his life flashed by before his eyes, family, death, war...............capitalists.......death........then incinerating heat.........and it was all over



------------------------------------



[Unknown facility somewhere in the former republic of Farfetched prospect]

Unknown person: It has begun

So, where exactly did you attack? You said Doujin Airspace.. yet the Doujin isn't being constructed in Doujin...

Edit: Also, there are several ships and aircraft in the air 24/7 where the Doujin is being constructed.. not to mention several powerful AWACS...

So, where exactly did you attack? You said Doujin Airspace.. yet the Doujin isn't being constructed in Doujin...

Edit: Also, there are several ships and aircraft in the air 24/7 where the Doujin is being constructed.. not to mention several powerful AWACS...

your main shipyards were attacked here, if the ship wasn't being constructed there it was a mistake in intell, although failling in destrying the ship the damage to infrastructure must be enormous
(not godmodding, Doujin can decide the damage level)

and on your question of entering airspace, the planes were traveling at aroung mach 8, and were stealth, considering you spotted them early enough, you would not have time to respond on a coastal attack, and it would be to late when the planes went into a death dive

Mach 8? You do realize that your pilots couldn't even dive at Mach 8? They would black out from the G forces, and to say otherwise is godmod in itself. At hypersonic speeds at this current time you cannot make sudden movements like that without causing extreme strain not only on the frame of the craft itself, but on the pilot. Hell, my Mach 5+ Spy plane can't make sudden moves or it would be torn apart...

OOC:
1) You can't claim to have penetrated enemy airspace and delivered the load unmolested. You don't know what he has, so you have to let him respond with it. I can think of over half a dozen things that would likely be there that would have stopped this attack dead in its tracks.
2) Already noted inconsistency with target and location
3) Even after detonating, nuclear weapons can be traced back to their origin. All they need is a sample to compare or the right information on the facilities the weapons came from to do so.
4) Detonation point's a bit high. Might want to be lower.


edit: 5) Such aircraft can't perform dives, or any other maneuvers for that matter, only gradual descents.

Mach 8? You do realize that your pilots couldn't even dive at Mach 8? They would black out from the G forces, and to say otherwise is godmod in itself. At hypersonic speeds at this current time you cannot make sudden movements like that without causing extreme strain not only on the frame of the craft itself, but on the pilot. Hell, my Mach 5+ Spy plane can't make sudden moves or it would be torn apart...

did I ever say that the planes make sudden moves, in a hyperbolic flight these speeds would be usable with the right training and equipment

Also, let me point out that you didn't say -which- shipyard you are at, I have multiple..

Also, let me point out that you didn't say -which- shipyard you are at, I have multiple..

As I said...Intell was incorrect, the leadership and advisors were under the impression that the ship was being build in a Doujin drydock, thus looking for a large enough dock, they want for the shipyard with the most room for your earlier large ships...I forgot the name of the type....is that enough info? your not very descriptive in the amount of shipyards and names

(sorry for late response, 500 error)

Hey, look- this is a dangerous ship, right? Kilean was going to try something like this before we found out that the Doujin was being built in a third country....


....but we never considered nukes. That sort of behavior is unacceptable. Kilean condemns the attack in the strongest possible language. The last thing we need to do is start popping off nukes just beacuse we feel threatened.

This attack is causing Kilean to re-think it's whole policy twards Doujin. Any victim of communist agression is a friend of Kilean.

Dive = sudden move..

(Edit: I have a couple dry docks capable of building the Leviathon Class which is what I assume you meant. One of them being Siouxsie Shipyards, which is near Orinoco.. a city with a population bordering 14 million.. if I were to let this attack go through, it would be on that shipyard. Also, I am in year 7 of a 10 year revamp of all my defenses.. a 3 trillion dollar project.. you couldn't get in that easy.. sorry..)

This attack is causing Kilean to re-think it's whole policy twards Doujin. Any victim of communist agression is a friend of Kilean.

DID YOU JUST CALL ME A COMMUNIST!!!!???? I'm a socialist democratic organisation!!!

Dive = sudden move..

Dive: in this case the result of a hyperbolic flight pattern, no sudden movement involved

This attack is causing Kilean to re-think it's whole policy twards Doujin. Any victim of communist agression is a friend of Kilean.

DID YOU JUST CALL ME A COMMUNIST!!!!???? I'm a socialist democratic organisation!!!

Same difference, pinko!

Im a socialist democrat! You just tried to nuke me!

Or at least I think you did?

Where did you try and hit, my shipyard where the Doujin is being built, or Doujin itself?

This attack is causing Kilean to re-think it's whole policy twards Doujin. Any victim of communist agression is a friend of Kilean.

DID YOU JUST CALL ME A COMMUNIST!!!!???? I'm a socialist democratic organisation!!!

Same difference, pinko!

sorry buddy, but you gotta read up on your government types....communism is a dictatorship, while socialism is a democraty

The freethinkers and doujin have suffered an unprovoked atomic attack. This flies in the face of any acceptable national behavior. Kilean's sword is yours, if you wish to use it.

Funny how Doujin used to be a Socialist Democracy -.-

Well, we'll decide what to do, Kilean, do you have an IM with MSN? TG Me.

Funny how Doujin used to be a Socialist Democracy -.-

The "used" part implies here

Im a socialist democrat! You just tried to nuke me!

Or at least I think you did?

Where did you try and hit, my shipyard where the Doujin is being built, or Doujin itself?

I tried to get that battleship of his, but accendently went for the Doujin mainland, my bad there, you where never a target, it's the cooperate mind of Doujin that is my target.

Okay, so, you nuked Doujin, not me, thank god!

:)

Sorry Doujin, but rather your shipyard than my capital...

:evil:

shipyard. Also, I am in year 7 of a 10 year revamp of all my defenses.. a 3 trillion dollar project.. you couldn't get in that easy.. sorry..)

May I say that according to the GDP calculator, you could never have that amount of money pumped into you entire military, even if it was over 7 years, you would get 900 billion a year at a rate of 10 percent of total GDP, something that would be crippeling to a economy 3 trillion just revamping defenses would leave no money to your fleet, airforce, landforces, and absolutly no room to build a 1 kilometer long flag/battleship
--------------------

Okay people, I would gladly continue this little thing, but I'm tired so I'm of to bed and we will continue tomorrow, can't wait for retaliation day

well doujin you had it coming, build a ship that big and you're asking for attacks

OOC: I'll let the attack go through, as Tolstoy and Siouxsie Shipyard hasn't been affected by the revamp in defenses.

Doujin Military Headquarters

"HOLY SHIT, SIR! 2 BOGIES INCOMING AND FAST!"

"Alright people, get to work! Get our boys in the air, and go to Condition 1."

"Sir, the bogies disappeared."

Across the room, another Intel guy yelled.

"General, we lost communications with our outfit at Orinoco and Siouxsie Shipyard!!"

"WHAT?? I need information, and I need it now."

"General, we are getting some odd readings here..."

The General walked over to the Lieutenant.

"What the.."

"Sir, we are getting a FLASH Priority from the DN Kornodo, off the coast of Orinoco.. sir.. a picture is coming through.."

http://nuclearweaponarchive.org/Usa/Tests/IvyMikeC383.jpg

"Dear God.. Alert all forces. High Alert, Condition 0 - Black. Bring Nuclear Arsenal to Standby Status, and get me the Prime Minister."

Not over 7 years, over 10 years


Percentage of GDP Spent on Defense: 7.22%
Percentage of Budget Spent on Defense: 15%
Military Budget: $1,448,154,789,466

You don't decide my military budget, I do. I have relatively no air force, just for defense of the shipyards.. and practically no Army.

Not over 7 years, over 10 years


Percentage of GDP Spent on Defense: 7.22%
Percentage of Budget Spent on Defense: 15%
Military Budget: $1,448,154,789,466

You don't decide my military budget, I do. I have relatively no air force, just for defense of the shipyards.. and practically no Army.

I do relise that, my appolgies, I'm just saying you might be over budgeting your armed forces a bit, considering your a high econmical power....but hey that's my personal opinion....I'll leave you country to you

Its okay....plus I explained to him the concept of national debt :wink:

Edit: His country works like the nations in Jennifer Govt, all the companies providing everything with a tiny, tiny govt in there. Technically his defense spending goes straight to his company, and in turn thus goes straight back into the state.

That said, 15% sits as the highest he can go without suffering economically. :roll:

Jim, shut up -.-

It has come to our attention that Farfetched prospect has just attacked the Doujin docks where our new battleships were being constructed. This has brought some serious financial damages to our budget and we demand reparations and an explanation for this unprofocked attack upon our efforts to defend the Federation?

This attack is totally unprovoked and only spurred by an onfounded fear of the Doujin, we promise full retalliation should the Doujini government wish it. Furthermore, if the battleships under construction for our navy were damaged or destroyed we will retalliate, with or without Doujin's blessing.

[Yes, ph34R fan-made anime! :lol: ]

Well, more to the point fan/amatuer-made magna.. Doujin being 'fan-made'. Doujinshi artists typically belong to a saakuru ('circle' in Japanese, umm.. they are groups of amatuers with basically the same taste).

The term Yaoi was first used to point out badly drawn doujinshi, it is now used to point out professionaly drawn and doujinshi magna with male/male love scenes.

(I could go on about Shounen-ai, Tanbi, Shoujo, and what have you :P but I'll stop here.)

Scandavian States, one of the Leviathon Class ships you asked for has been rendered unusable from nuclear fallout. The shipyard.. is, well.. irradiated.

[You know, I've only nuked a nation once before, so what I'm about to do is upsetting.]

When news came that a Leviathan had been irradiated by the fallout, the Emperor had no choice but to order a retaliation strike against Farfetched Prospect.

All twenty SSBNs were scrambled with their escorts and were the first to fire their deadly payloads, a total of 320 missiles streaked into space like bright stars. When the second stage booster cleared the missile body the nose cone seperated and each missile disgorged sixteen MIRVs. No cities were targeted, at least not intentionally, what was targeted was every base, fuel depot, fleet base, and anything else of strategic importance. The warheads were not fusion warheads, but gamma ray warheads, which were slightly more efficient and although there was a lot of hard gamma radiation during the explosion, left no radioactive fallout behind, much in the manner of X-Ray bombs.

[Each warhead is 585Kt and there are 6400 of them. Remember, no cities were targeted unless they had something of strategic importance placed in them and there won't be any radiation after the explosion, but the gamma during the explosion will be extremely deadly. Oh, and I'd appreciate it if you told me I missed anything so that I can make a follow-up strike.]

Farfetched Prospects,

Your government is the most utterly disgraceful government we have encountered - and there are lots of other governments that we severely dislike. You are worth nothing - NOTHING. And soon, if I here correctly, you shall be nothing.

Your government launched an attack on our ally. A NUCLEAR attack on our ally - you are truly asking for it. Why? Because Doujin is a capitalist nation.

We are capitalist as well. We have fought alongside Socialists many times, and have very good relations with several socialist states. As a new nation, we were classified as 'democratic socialists' ourselves.

For you to do something like that shows your worthlessness. You are one nation who, if wiped off the face of the earth, we shall not have much pity on.

We have sworn to ourselves, and made clear to the world, that a successful nuclear attack on Zoogiedom or its allies will result in nuclear retaliation. That will be all.

----
(Secret IC)

With the recent nuclear threat by Redmire, Zoogiedom's nuclear sites are still in the process of being deactivated. They are now being quickly re-armed.

Our satellites and intelligence are now currently working to find targets that Scandavian States has missed, and will be launching Peacekeeper-type ICBMs at your nation.

Farfetched Prospects,

Your government is the most utterly disgraceful government we have encountered - and there are lots of other governments that we severely dislike. You are worth nothing - NOTHING. And soon, if I here correctly, you shall be nothing.

Your government launched an attack on our ally. A NUCLEAR attack on our ally - you are truly asking for it. Why? Because Doujin is a capitalist nation.

We are capitalist as well. We have fought alongside Socialists many times, and have very good relations with several socialist states. As a new nation, we were classified as 'democratic socialists' ourselves.

For you to do something like that shows your worthlessness. You are one nation who, if wiped off the face of the earth, we shall not have much pity on.

We have sworn to ourselves, and made clear to the world, that a successful nuclear attack on Zoogiedom or its allies will result in nuclear retaliation. That will be all.

----
(Secret IC)

With the recent nuclear threat by Redmire, Zoogiedom's nuclear sites are still in the process of being deactivated. They are now being quickly re-armed.

Our satellites and intelligence are now currently working to find targets that Scandavian States has missed, and will be launching Peacekeeper-type ICBMs at your nation.

Farfetched Prospects,

Your government is the most utterly disgraceful government we have encountered - and there are lots of other governments that we severely dislike. You are worth nothing - NOTHING. And soon, if I here correctly, you shall be nothing.

Your government launched an attack on our ally. A NUCLEAR attack on our ally - you are truly asking for it. Why? Because Doujin is a capitalist nation.

We are capitalist as well. We have fought alongside Socialists many times, and have very good relations with several socialist states. As a new nation, we were classified as 'democratic socialists' ourselves.

For you to do something like that shows your worthlessness. You are one nation who, if wiped off the face of the earth, we shall not have much pity on.

We have sworn to ourselves, and made clear to the world, that a successful nuclear attack on Zoogiedom or its allies will result in nuclear retaliation. That will be all.

----
(Secret IC)

With the recent nuclear threat by Redmire, Zoogiedom's nuclear sites are still in the process of being deactivated. They are now being quickly re-armed.

Our satellites and intelligence are now currently working to find targets that Scandavian States has missed, and will be launching Peacekeeper-type ICBMs at your nation.

Farfetched Prospects,

Your government is the most utterly disgraceful government we have encountered - and there are lots of other governments that we severely dislike. You are worth nothing - NOTHING. And soon, if I here correctly, you shall be nothing.

Your government launched an attack on our ally. A NUCLEAR attack on our ally - you are truly asking for it. Why? Because Doujin is a capitalist nation.

We are capitalist as well. We have fought alongside Socialists many times, and have very good relations with several socialist states. As a new nation, we were classified as 'democratic socialists' ourselves.

For you to do something like that shows your worthlessness. You are one nation who, if wiped off the face of the earth, we shall not have much pity on.

We have sworn to ourselves, and made clear to the world, that a successful nuclear attack on Zoogiedom or its allies will result in nuclear retaliation. That will be all.

----
(Secret IC)

With the recent nuclear threat by Redmire, Zoogiedom's nuclear sites are still in the process of being deactivated. They are now being quickly re-armed.

Our satellites and intelligence are now currently working to find targets that Scandavian States has missed, and will be launching Peacekeeper-type ICBMs at your nation.

High Command
Port Yuko, Bonstock

A man rushed to the office of Gustavus Adolphus, President of Bonstock. Bursting into the door, he said, panting, "Sir, there is a nuclear war. Doujin is under attack by communist nations!"

"We must not get involved, for it will lead to our down fall. But put us on alert. If any missile heads to Doujin, Bonstocknian SDIs have permission to engage and shoot them down."

"Sir, should we ready project Skyline?"

Adolphus thought hard. Sixteen sattelites, launched earlier that month, were each loaded with 10 MIRVs, ready to rain down on any enemy and not even have to worry about SDIs.

The Citadel, Kenoko, Shinoxia

A picture on High King of Shinoxia, James O'Kelly's desk.

He felt dizzy.

The words came out of his aide's mouth but he didn't hear them all.

Nuclear attack...Doujin...shipyards...heavy losses...."Sir, are you you alright?

O'Kelly woke from his daze.

"Yes, I'm fine." he said as he shook his head, trying to think clearly.

He had just recieved the news of the nuclear attack on Doujin, the attack had been succesful, destroying many of Doujin's battleships.

The nation, Farfetched prospects had achieved it's goals.

But now the nation faces nuclear attack.

In front of the High King stood one of his advisors, Kenneth McCorvey.

"Sir, this attack..." McCorvery trailed off.

"I know, high success rate, many ships lost." The High King whispered, his head cupped in his right hand.

He continued.

"There is word that the Doujin has been destroyed."

"Sir, we cannot confirm, however the nuclear bomb detonated right in the shipyard, I don't see how it could have survived, nor have been salvaged."

James sat up, he nodded and asked.

"Where has the fallout, gone too?"

McCorvey shook his head.

"I'm not sure, but the casulty rate has to be well in the thousand, I don't understand the goals of this rogue nation, but he has done us a favor."

"Yes...yes he has." High King O'Kelly smirked and leaned back in his chair, looking up at the ceiling of his office, he glanced at the flag of his nation.

He sighed tiredly.

"Now Doujin's allies are retaliating with another nuclear assault," he continued "you said this nation has done us a favor, it has, and Farfetched prospects must be rewarded."

"Now how to thank him."

Kenneth smiled.

"MADAE?"

The High King rewarded his answer with a smile of his own.

"Indeed, contact General Ross, have his system take out these ICBMs, we wouldn't want this nation to end out a charred piece of land."

Kenneth McCorvey took a deep bow.

"I will."

He left, quitely shutting the door, leaving his King alone in his office.

O'Kelly looked down at the picture on his desk, a red fireball, taken in the Doujin shipyards.

Then he fell asleep.

OOC: As of now I am having Dancing Moose activate his MADAE missile defense system, designed by Kazakhstan, to shoot down the incoming ICBMs.

semi-OOC:

We're appalled by your actions, Shinoxia...if someone had launched nuclear strikes on your nation successfully, we would have done the same for you. Would you allow ideological differences to determine all your allies?

Shinoxia, do you not read? A couple ships in construction for another nation, Scandavian States, were rendered useless by radiation and EMP wave. It was a high-altitude detonation, not really any ground damage. My Navy isn't near Orinoco Island.. it's still intact. And the Doujin is being launched as we speak with representatives from many nations. Unum Veritas, The Zoogie People, Scandavian States, Soviet Bloc, Crookfur, The Freethinkers.. the list goes on. The wrahead was detonated at Siouxsie Shipyards, not Navarre.

There are multiple shipyards in Doujin, and I have many throughout other countries. Don't be so foolish to assume that many battleships of mine would be lost because of a nuke at a shipyard.

Shinoxia, do you not read? A couple ships in construction for another nation, Scandavian States, were rendered useless by radiation and EMP wave. It was a high-altitude detonation, not really any ground damage. My Navy isn't near Orinoco Island.. it's still intact. And the Doujin is being launched as we speak with representatives from many nations. Unum Veritas, The Zoogie People, Scandavian States, Soviet Bloc, Crookfur, The Freethinkers.. the list goes on. The wrahead was detonated at Siouxsie Shipyards, not Navarre.

There are multiple shipyards in Doujin, and I have many throughout other countries. Don't be so foolish to assume that many battleships of mine would be lost because of a nuke at a shipyard.

Shinoxia, do you not read? A couple ships in construction for another nation, Scandavian States, were rendered useless by radiation and EMP wave. It was a high-altitude detonation, not really any ground damage. My Navy isn't near Orinoco Island.. it's still intact. And the Doujin is being launched as we speak with representatives from many nations. Unum Veritas, The Zoogie People, Scandavian States, Soviet Bloc, Crookfur, The Freethinkers.. the list goes on. The wrahead was detonated at Siouxsie Shipyards, not Navarre.

There are multiple shipyards in Doujin, and I have many throughout other countries. Don't be so foolish to assume that many battleships of mine would be lost because of a nuke at a shipyard.

OOC: The Doujin is being built at Navarre, not in Doujin.

And please remember every ABM, however good, is not infalliable. And if Shinoxia decides on its own retaliation against me or my country, be prepared for all hell breaking loose.

Hey Doujin, Need any help in this illconievd attack upon you? I would love to Help in the anihilation of those that seek to destroy the Gleaming Battleship, nay Glorious Battleship that is your 'Doujin Class'

As the High Emperor of Wazican sits on his throne he is amazed at the incoming TAC reports out of Doujin and Shinoxia.

"Well I was planning a large finacial venture with Doujin, but this new rouge nation has gone and screwed it all up."

"What are we to do sire?"

"We now take a stance of nuetrality, we must honor our long time alliance with Shinoxia and take pity on this worthless nation. Send humanitarian aid to both Doujin and Farfetched prospect, also put all forces on high alert."


OOC:Sorry this is so short I have to leave and wont be back till later on tonight. Then I make further actions.

[You know, I've only nuked a nation once before, so what I'm about to do is upsetting.]

When news came that a Leviathan had been irradiated by the fallout, the Emperor had no choice but to order a retaliation strike against Farfetched Prospect.

All twenty SSBNs were scrambled with their escorts and were the first to fire their deadly payloads, a total of 320 missiles streaked into space like bright stars. When the second stage booster cleared the missile body the nose cone seperated and each missile disgorged sixteen MIRVs. No cities were targeted, at least not intentionally, what was targeted was every base, fuel depot, fleet base, and anything else of strategic importance. The warheads were not fusion warheads, but gamma ray warheads, which were slightly more efficient and although there was a lot of hard gamma radiation during the explosion, left no radioactive fallout behind, much in the manner of X-Ray bombs.

[Each warhead is 585Kt and there are 6400 of them. Remember, no cities were targeted unless they had something of strategic importance placed in them and there won't be any radiation after the explosion, but the gamma during the explosion will be extremely deadly. Oh, and I'd appreciate it if you told me I missed anything so that I can make a follow-up strike.]
OOC: That's more than a bit overboard SS. You don't respond to a strike like this by wiping out every square inch of the offending nation, especially when it's not a united one. 5120 (the math was apparently off) 585 kiloton warheads could wipe out 600,000 square kilometers. That's too much, and guaranteed to kill most of his population. What you have can and will wipe out most of the major cities. You can't launch a strike that big and claim the extreme losses were unintentional. If you wanted surgical strikes with lower losses, you'd use less powerful warheads and would deploy only a fraction of that.
My available systems are not extensive, but between the ship-launched weapons and orbital interceptors that could intercept, about 80-100 missiles should be knocked out.

IC:
Ofifcial Announcement:
Clan Smoke Jaguar is apalled by the recent unprovoked nuclear strike on Doujin, and pledge our support to eliminating this terrorist threat and providing relief and repair efforts.
However, while this attack is unexcusable, the gross overreaction of the Scandanavian States is no less so. We cannot excuse an act of genocide, even under these circumstances. As such, we will deploy any antiballistic missile systems we have available to intercept as many of these weapons as we can. The actions of a few individuals should not condemn an entire nation to death.
We have no intention of initiating any direct action against Scandanavian States in any way, but we will help defend the innocent civilians that would die in this holocaust.

Unfortunately CSJ, there are so many ABM systems of various types and quality that overkill is often required to achieve any actual damage.

In RL this amount would be enough to wipe out every city in the world as well as pump enough radiation into the atmosphere to kill every biological organisiam on the planet.

In Ns however, the vast numbers are simply a safeguard to make sure the objective is achieved. We can use an accurate estimate and guess that 85-90 percent of these warhead will be intercepted before they hit.

OOC: Although this nuclear strike on the Doujin dreadnaught will be getting a condemnation, I do believe almost 3 gigatons worth of explosions is indeed sorta far...

Surely, if people want to destroy this huge dreadnaught, I think that they should reather consider some quality RP rather than this, no offense...

IC:

The Omzian government, while engaged in a conflict itself (therefore unable to assist), is extremely shocked and disgusted by the unprovoked nuclear strike on Doujin property because of the idelogy and economic system in the Doujin state, and because of the construction of the dreadnaught.

But neither do we see a purpose for Scandavian States for continuing this massive killing and destruction by replying with a deadly force of full nuclear retaliation by Scandanivan States. While it continues to be an ally of Omzian Nation, we are forced by this to voice our disapproval to this strike, as this will only cost more lives, perhaps to an extent of millions.

As we are voicing our moral support for Doujin and her allies and Clan Smoke Jaguar, we must ask: has the world seen enough unneeded warfare, perhaps under the names of "liberation" or "retaliation", that only has the true purpose of wiping out more innocent lives? Has the world come to an extent where nuclear weapons is the only way to solve problems?

OOC:

Yeah...this could go somewhere very nasty. I think we should all agree to keep this non-nuclear once this strike is sorted out. Frankly we now have seven or eight nuclear powers poised to blast each other to hell and, in reality, this isnt a great thing. An appeal for calm, and indeed, a good, conventional war RP, is what im asking for.

OOC: I dont think that will work out to well, Freethinkers. Since you imply that it would take hundreds of regular battleships probably all going to their deaths to sink the Doujin, then nukes are the only alternative.

IC: Admiral Ross recieves Shinoxia's request, and is immediatly ordering MADAE to be put on full alert.

The lights of the small city Tuscan dim for a split moment as a great electrical surge is redirected to the MADAE operating deck. At the MADAE command post #1, Major Trey Maxwell is issuing a formal red alert, for all MADAE operators.

Main MADAE operating deck, 0650.

The huge guns of the MADAE inter-continental anti-ballistic missile system come to life following a sudden sound of jolting electricity. Almost instantly, the gun platform turns slightly as gun #4 and #5 match their target solutions.

MADAE command bunker #1, 0653.

MADAE gunnery seargent Harry Barrow: Everyone to your post!!!! Red Alert! Red Alert!

Man: Sir what the hell is going on!?!

Barrow: A red alert has just been issued everyone is to proceed to their action stations pronto..

Man: What the hell for?! I thought drills were over for this season?!

Barrow: Dont every question me again soldier, just get to your action station. This aint no damn drill.

Man: Yes sir. Sorry sir.

In the control room, things are as equally frantic. Most men are at their stations, and have already calculated the ICBM's inroute to Farfetched trajectory, and firing solutions.

OOC2: Sorry if this seems kinda bad, and I cant RP it coming to life as well as its creator, but just so yall know, MADAE is active and is preparing to fire upon the ICBM's on the way to the nation of Farfetched.

"Sir, MADAE has been activated."

Dancing Moose,

Zoogiedom requests to know the reason of your support for Freethinkers when he has launched a pre-emptive strike - a preemptive Nuclear strike at that - on Doujin. While Scandavian State's retaliation is overwhelming, and we aren't bothered by your efforts to get rid of most of them and save the civilian population, why do you support Farfetched in this matter?

Because I too wish to see the Doujin at the bottom of the abyss. Although I will not personally attack him now, I will defend against other nations he or his allies strike upon, no matter who started it.

The Loyal Employees of Crossroads Inc. Wishes to pledge its full support to the Nation of Doujin and its allies, As of now, any future action taken against Doujin will result in swift and direct action from the combined military forces of Crossroads Inc.

DP

And why is this?

Because I have been a long time fan of Doujin, his nation, and his incredable Construction of immense Battleships. That and I fully support the topic he was named for as well :wink:

"Sir, MADAE has been activated."

Dancing Moose,

Zoogiedom requests to know the reason of your support for Freethinkers when he has launched a pre-emptive strike - a preemptive Nuclear strike at that - on Doujin. While Scandavian State's retaliation is overwhelming, and we aren't bothered by your efforts to get rid of most of them and save the civilian population, why do you support Farfetched in this matter?

Erm...

What?

"Sir, MADAE has been activated."

Dancing Moose,

Zoogiedom requests to know the reason of your support for Freethinkers when he has launched a pre-emptive strike - a preemptive Nuclear strike at that - on Doujin. While Scandavian State's retaliation is overwhelming, and we aren't bothered by your efforts to get rid of most of them and save the civilian population, why do you support Farfetched in this matter?

Erm...

What?

An appeal for calm, and indeed, a good, conventional war RP, is what im asking for.

OOC:
The existence of the Doujin effectively rules out any possibility of a good conventional war RP.

While it may allow you to swat any other navy on the planet, it also sends RP quality down the toilet. I would rather have my meagre naval forces crushed by a conventional fleet, than simply flattened by one omni-powerful unsinkable and (in my opinion) unrealistic super-ship.

Rather than get the nukes out, I intend to just ignore the ship, and any nations involved.

An appeal for calm, and indeed, a good, conventional war RP, is what im asking for.

OOC:
The existence of the Doujin effectively rules out any possibility of a good conventional war RP.

While it may allow you to swat any other navy on the planet, it also sends RP quality down the toilet. I would rather have my meagre naval forces crushed by a conventional fleet, than simply flattened by one omni-powerful unsinkable and (in my opinion) unrealistic super-ship.

Rather than get the nukes out, I intend to just ignore the ship, and any nations involved.

So you just gonna leave this leave this RP then? Fair enough. For those of us who naval warfare tactics extend beyond SSM strikes, I believe this presents a very good oppurtunity for an RP.

There is nothing unrealistic in terms of the ship when you consider the context in which she is launched. She is tough, very tough, but not unsinkable and unfortunately for some, you certainly require a little innovation and imagination to try and attack her and disable her, but its certainly possible, and encourages people to try and RP as opposed to copy and pasting out of CNN military reports.

Sorry, but im getting a little bit sick and tired of people with little actual idea of naval warfare getting in a huff because they would actually have to try and be original for once.

Anyway...moving on

Sorry, but im getting a little bit sick and tired of people with little actual idea of naval warfare getting in a huff because they would actually have to try and be original for once.

I sincerely hope that wasn't directed at me.

An appeal for calm, and indeed, a good, conventional war RP, is what im asking for.

OOC:
The existence of the Doujin effectively rules out any possibility of a good conventional war RP.

While it may allow you to swat any other navy on the planet, it also sends RP quality down the toilet. I would rather have my meagre naval forces crushed by a conventional fleet, than simply flattened by one omni-powerful unsinkable and (in my opinion) unrealistic super-ship.

Rather than get the nukes out, I intend to just ignore the ship, and any nations involved.

Exactly. This is exactly the point im trying to make. While your are completely obsessed with this ship, and would probably go through great lenghts to see that it didnt get sunk, it is highly unlikely you will ever find someone who will RP against this ship.

Its directed at everyone who simply doesnt understand that not every naval engagement is decided by tossing SSMs or strike aircraft at each other.

If you were offended, then I am genuinely sorry. Its just that everyone is annoyed that we built a ship designed to withstand traditional forms of attack better than other ships (okay, I admit, through being big enough to have enough armour and space to withstand the actual blast several times over) and well, yes, thats the point. We dont build original weapon systems for no reason. We build them to give ourselves a tactical advantage, however we come to the conclusion to what end to provide it.

We arent making a godmod here. She is ridiculously slow accelerating, highly vulnerable to mines and is probably the only ship that would be grounded solely because of an economic depression.

Here's the basic point.

Every new weapon is designed to give us an advantage over everyone else. She has flaws, but she is what we feel is necessary to give us an advantage, and after all the hours I put in creating her I will defend her against all comers.

OOC: Give us more information on this "MADAE" system, Dancing Moose. And nukes aren't the only alternative, DM, as people have said before me. BE CREATIVE. Unum Veritas has said it. Freethinkers has said it. I've said it. Hell, I believe even CSJ has said it.

And, by the way, judging from what Farfetched prospect has posted so far.. he wanted to hurt me because I am a capitalist nation, and he is socialist. The Doujin is a symbol of pride and capitalism(as it is a big billboard for Doujinshi Corporation).. that is why he targeted it(again, judging from what he has posted.)

Now, mind you, he made a fatal error and sent his attack at Siouxsie Shipyard, which is close to a 14 million population city.


IC:
Doujin releases death numbers

Siouxsie Shipyard: Civilian Deaths
Severely Injured, 4,832
Dead: 8,203
Terminal: 14,985

(Note, these are [CIVILIANS].)

Siouxsie Shipyard: Military Deaths
Severely Injured: 832
Dead: 197
Terminal: 1,408

The bombers had been pulled off their normal missions in Kileans pressing war with it's neighbor. They dispersed to scattered depots around Kilean. Ground crew bustled, and special security teams walked the payload out to the waiting craft.

______________________________________________________________


The Director of the Kilean foriegn office offers whatever Kilean assistance is needed in the coming fight. If the go-ahead is given, we will deliver a measured response-in-kind to Farfetched Prospect.

We hope this situation does not escalate. First use of atomic weapons has taken place, but Kilean must stress that NO state should launch a "counter-value" strike.

Its directed at everyone who simply doesnt understand that not every naval engagement is decided by tossing SSMs or strike aircraft at each other.

OOC:
Ah, so they're decided by building a ship that's big enough to take on three fleets single-handed? :P

I wouldn't be so scathing of people who throw nukes at it; for the majority of nations, tactical nukes are about the only weapons they have in their arsenal that can hope to hurt the Doujin. Unless it has the cliche unshielded thermal exhaust port... :wink:

The trouble is, realistically, nations would develop countermeasures against this ship. And then there would be countermeasures against those countermeasures, and so on, back and forth, an arms race that continues until naval warfare becomes completely and utterly different to modern warfare. You might as well RP space battles, for all the difference it would make.

For those of us who want to RP modern warfare, the Doujin is simply too much. It's like bringing swords to a fist-fight. Some people will be happy to get themselves a bladed implement and get stuck in, but the rest of us are happy punching each other, thank you very much.

I suspect I'm being very petty carrying on like this. I apologise - I shall butt out now.

HOW TO DEFEAT THE DOUJIN 101: HOW THE FREETHINKERS (OR INDEED, ANYONE) CAN NEUTRALISE THE DOUJIN THREAT.


1) Destroy Doujin's economy. Without money the Doujin cant run. Funds are the Doujin's achillies heal. Do this by surgical strikes on infastructure and industry, and on convoys. Doujin's economy is built is built on heavy industry, he needs to import raw materials and export equipment. Sink them! No money, DN Doujin is just a floating hulk.

2) Use small, fast strike forces. The DN Doujin is a slow giant. Attack Doujin with quick strike teams that enter and leave his teritory quickly. This helps 1), the Doujin cant really fight them, and if against the island of Doujin itself, forces the dreadnought to stay home to defend the motherland, preventing overseas deployment.

3) Use mines. The propulsion arrangement of the DN Doujin is highly vulnerable to mines because of its designs. Use minefields to slow the beast down by forcing her to stop and use minehunters to search for them. She doesnt stop or get going very quickly. Increases costs, allows oppurtunities for quick strikes to damage her.

4) Attack the ammo supply. The DN Doujin runs through ammo like Bill clinton through cigars. She needs constant resupply of ammo to remain on station. HINT????!?!?!?!?

These are so many ways in which to neutralise the DN Doujin threat, and all of them require GREAT RP PRACTISE in order to do. Yes, Doujin does have some counters (which he wont go into here), but in turn you have your own intuition.

:P

Genuinely sorry if anyone was offended. We all have different views. Interestingly enough, for small scale modern RPs it wouldnt be practical for the DN Doujin anyway, simply because you couldnt justify the expenditure to bring her out and fight.

((OOC: Is the Doujin a space ship or a water ship? Either way, 5-10 of my Vek Raven Units (http://members.cox.net/resicorp/vek.htm) could completely destroy it. Neigh-invincibility is a great thing. :wink: ))

IC:
In the core of the HUB, the most advanced military training facility in the entire corporation, Commander Ugar was observing the new recruits run the obsticle course. Suddenly and without warning, a private burst through the door to the obsticle course.
"Sir!" the private shouted, "Word has it that Doujin, a member of the Corporate Islands, has been attacked by a nuclear device!"
"Oh really?" Ugar replied, "Does this allow us to attack the bastards who did that, or does that New Resian Charter that bitch Narasagi drafted up prevent that?"
"Well, the New Resian Charter clearly states that defensive war is alright, so we're assuming that no, we can attack the enemies of the Doujin."
"Most excellent," the commander replied, "Oh, and send something to clean up that little mess the nuke made. You know what I mean."
"Yessir!" the private said, saluting before he ran off.

An hour later, an Un-Nuke nanobomb is dislodged from its orbit over Earth and begins to plummet towards the nuked area of Doujin. Within minutes, radiation-eating nanomachines begin to disinfect the area for use by Doujin once more. As the Un-Nuke began to fall, a message was relayed from the Resi Corporation to the Doujin government, stating, "Please accept this gift from a fellow member of the Corporate Islands to you. We are giving you back the use of your soil, which radiation would have otherwise contaminated for generations." Very consise, to the point, and effecent. Such was the trademark of the corporation.

OOC: Ok, are the ships that were constructed for me useless or will they be delivered on time?

IC: We urge the nations not to use nukes. Destroying there economy would prevent them from providing reparations to us. So I suggest more conventional means in settling the dispute.

OOC: Your ships will be delivered within the next 2 RL days.

[Why I did it]

2 years earlier

*Prospect Apex facility*

As I came of the Maglev train a thought struck me, every day millions die (considering NS population is in the 100 billions) why is this? Since the nations overtake by extremist capitalistic coorperations it has gone downhill, people losing their jobs, childeren die daily of startvation, hat is this madness? Is capitalism evil? it must be in some cases, profit before of people. We must do something.........

Present day

*Apex facility*

Intell controll officer: Sir, we have failed, we did not destroy the ship, last second imaging from the planes suggest the ship was not where it was supposed to be, nuclear explosion did not destroy ground level as exspected, all electrical systems on location have been destroyed and fall-out has been kept to minimum.

Commander: good, although failing to hit our target we have managed to hurt their economy, did expected retaliation begin?

Intell: Yes sir......wait.........sir, we have multiple bogies comming in from Scandinavian states terretory......there heading for civilian area's sir

Commander: WHAT!!! THAT'S GENOCIDE!!!! THOSE CITIES ARE COMPLETLY DEFENCELESS!!!

Intell: Sir, multiple bogies have been takes out by AB systems, but several came through

Commander: Activate Anti-ballistic systems, save as many people as possible,

Intell: one bogie is inbound to our location

Commander: you know what you have to do

Com officer: We have lost contact to Victoria sir, visual availible...

http://nuclear-weapons.nm.ru/fotos/wallpapers/dominictruckee_600.jpg


-----------------------------
Losses: Civilian

City: Victoria, population 15 million

hit by a 10 megaton nuclear weapon.

survivors: 1.247 million, due to western winds up to a additional 2 million will die in the next month
infrastructure: Destroyed

Losses: Military

1500, the second command was destroyed, no fixed military excists in Prospect other then the Apex facility

to: Doujin

from: the United Board of cooperations of Farfetched Prospect

Fellow nation, It has came to our attention that our seperated military has preformed a nuclear attack to our econmical instalations, we hope minor damage was done to the target area and that you can continue to produce profit in the near future, also we would ask help to reconstruct the Victoria area for future profit making, I believe we can make a agreement on payment on both parts, for our workforce has been severly damaged and no profits can be made for the next 25 years as it looks now, we do not understant why the military has done this, for we have no control over it.

OOC: Note the lack of interest in people here and total interest in profit.
If you are confused with the situation, I'm trying to play 2 factions at the same time on rogue socialist military and a extremist capitalist government, hope this explains some stuff

UBCFP: Your request for help is denied. We find your lack of sympathy towards your people appalling. While Doujin may be largely controlled by a corporation itself.. profit is not the end, it is only the means to the begining. The end is that each person may be happy in his life and his endeavours. Doujin's crime rate is non-existant, we have been living a Utopia until your seperated military, or what have you, decided to attack and kill the lives of thousands of civilians.

Without the people, there would be no company. Our people come first.

OOC: I won't go further with the UBCFP, they were there to explain some stuff...Al posts after this point will be the Socialist faction

++Secret Communication - Socialist Faction of Farfetched prospect++

We know that you were behind the nuclear attacks on us. However, we do not hold grudges.. especially when reseach over your nations past shows a reason for hatred to capitalism. We would be willing to help you overthrow your capitalist government in place of a Socialist one (As we were once socialists ourselves), providing weapons, aircraft, and even some naval vessels. Respond.

++End Communication++

++Secret Communication - Socialist Faction of Farfetched prospect++

We know that you were behind the nuclear attacks on us. However, we do not hold grudges.. especially when reseach over your nations past shows a reason for hatred to capitalism. We would be willing to help you overthrow your capitalist government in place of a Socialist one (As we were once socialists ourselves), providing weapons, aircraft, and even some naval vessels. Respond.

++End Communication++

We are confused. you do not hold a grudge? Is this a plot to destroy us within with your capitalist coruption?

No, no grudge. Looking at your nations past, it is important that your government be replaced. The disrespect for human life is.. sickening.

Although we arn't sure about your intentions, We will allow you to "replace" the corrupt government, as long it is a government that has been chosen by the people, a government that cares for their people,

If you could provide us with the location of the current governments bunkers and military installations.. it would be most helpful.

If you could provide us with the location of the current governments bunkers and military installations.. it would be most helpful.

As I said before the capitalists have no interest in warfare thus have no army of any sort, the cooperation headquarters is more fortified towards infiltration than an attack, but also densly populated with civilians

OOC: I'm going to bed, more tomorrow.

IC:
The Crookfur Govenrment are deeply saddened by the intial event and the subsequent retribution.

We offer the services of a clean up and medical care team to help releive the suffereing of the Doujin people (OOC: i know resi namited it clean for you but wouldn't the people be happier to see soem real epople comming to help them?).

We would offer humanitarian aid to Farfetched prospect but the situation there is just too confusing (How on earth can a fully formed army that still has the use of fairly major logisitcs and infrastructure not deal with a few coperations, and almsot by defination the military command would be the govenrment... it just perplexs me).

OOC: You know....this sounds terrifyingly like the book NS was based on.

Yes I did buy the book, and have thusly contributed to the cause :D

[Okay, let's get some things straight.

1) This was not a carpet nuking. This was a surgical strike against strategic assets, which includes anything that supplies, controls, bases, or arms any part of the military. This means that there will be several MIRVs per target to ensure the destruction of the target.

2) I have seen the destruction of one city (how that city was strategically important has not been explained), which accounted for five warheads. There were 6400 warheads, there's no way to shoot down that many MIRVs unless you have an extensive multi-tiered ABM system, which I have seen no evidence of.

3) I'm not going to hold back when some idiot detonates nuclear weapons in one of my allies cities and manages at the same time to destroy two superdreadnaughts that I have payed over 50 billion for.

The premier stalked around the meeting room.

"Farfetched prospect had damn well BETTER get a hold of their military! This is insane! What about two-man rules or launch codes?"

The generals looked nervous.

"uuuh, look, apparently this socialist military of theirs has defied the central government."

The premier sighed.

"Where are the bombers?"

"holding at their fail-safe points, sir."

"Good" spoke the premier. "we'll wait, for now, but tell Farfetched prospect to get a handle on things in their own goddamn country."

(OOC and all referential to the last page)
I wouldn't mind rp'ing against anybody with a Doujin dreadnought like advantage. What do you think Sherman commanders felt when they went against king tigers? I doubt that they just ignored it for being superpowerful. Rather, they devised solutions for it, realising its weaknesses (SLOW turret, low speed, unmaneuverable) and planned against it. The Doujin weakness was already identified by freethinkers, and nothing that currently can exist is invincible, it doesn't need to be a nuke. (I've got plans, they might not work, but all you could do is try. I am on your side fully though Doujin, I'm not actually going to even attempt to try any plans.)

[code:1:6ad1d07fbb]>>Adding "Dancing Moose & Farfetched prospect" to black list......

>>Data Transfer complete.

>>Ceasing all trade with "Dancing Moose & Farfetched prospect".......

>>Estimated losses in Iuthian revenue: $00.00 (USD)

>>Electronic Transfers blocked, mailmerge sent to Iuthian business owners...[/code:1:6ad1d07fbb]


We utterly condemn Farfetched prospect for their terrible lack of moral and unprovoked strike against Doujin. We will make a note of this action and we will make a point of keeping your nation on the blacklist for ever.

Meanwhile we would like to further condemn Dancing Moose for being willing to support this nation.

[Okay, let's get some things straight.

1) This was not a carpet nuking. This was a surgical strike against strategic assets, which includes anything that supplies, controls, bases, or arms any part of the military. This means that there will be several MIRVs per target to ensure the destruction of the target.

2) I have seen the destruction of one city (how that city was strategically important has not been explained), which accounted for five warheads. There were 6400 warheads, there's no way to shoot down that many MIRVs unless you have an extensive multi-tiered ABM system, which I have seen no evidence of.

3) I'm not going to hold back when some idiot detonates nuclear weapons in one of my allies cities and manages at the same time to destroy two superdreadnaughts that I have payed over 50 billion for.
1) With the size of the warheads and the number of targets, this is indeed carpet nuking, even if you claim surgical. Again, the warheads are too powerful and too numerous for the job given, and you engaged too many targets. If you'd just gone after the nuclear and command facilities, that would have been more than acceptable. But you decided you wanted to hit everything else as well.

2) You posted 20 submarines firing 320 missiles, each with 16 warheads. That is 5120 warheads, not 6400. I've already noted this error, yet you seem to be sticking to it for some reason. :roll:
They'd need an additional 4 warheads each, or an additional 80 missiles, for it to be 6400. I haven't gone into the fact that you shouldn't even have that many warheads on each missile, and I planned on letting that slide. But remember, ABM systems tend to go for the missiles before warhead separation. I've accounted for 1280-1600 warheads with my interceptions alone.
That said, there should be quite a few more successful detonations.

3) The ships, IIRC, were not actually destroyed, and Resi Corporation fixed the radiation problem, so you haven't exactly lost much. All you did was make a hasty, ill-informed decision that invited a full-scale nuclear exchange. You used a mass nuclear strike as the first course of action, when it should only be the last. That deserves to be condemned and countered. An intelligent nation would have at least used a much more surgical and less all-encompassing approach, and would likely have looked for conventional avenues instead.

"Sir, MADAE has been activated."

Dancing Moose,

Zoogiedom requests to know the reason of your support for Freethinkers when he has launched a pre-emptive strike - a preemptive Nuclear strike at that - on Doujin. While Scandavian State's retaliation is overwhelming, and we aren't bothered by your efforts to get rid of most of them and save the civilian population, why do you support Farfetched in this matter?

Erm...

What?

Sorry...Freethinker, Farfetched...I get those mixed up. It's supposed to say 'your support for Farfetched'

:P

lol.

1) With the size of the warheads and the number of targets, this is indeed carpet nuking, even if you claim surgical. Again, the warheads are too powerful and too numerous for the job given, and you engaged too many targets. If you'd just gone after the nuclear and command facilities, that would have been more than acceptable. But you decided you wanted to hit everything else as well.

2) You posted 20 submarines firing 320 missiles, each with 16 warheads. That is 5120 warheads, not 6400. I've already noted this error, yet you seem to be sticking to it for some reason. :roll:
They'd need an additional 4 warheads each, or an additional 80 missiles, for it to be 6400. I haven't gone into the fact that you shouldn't even have that many warheads on each missile, and I planned on letting that slide. But remember, ABM systems tend to go for the missiles before warhead separation. I've accounted for 1280-1600 warheads with my interceptions alone.
That said, there should be quite a few more successful detonations.

3) The ships, IIRC, were not actually destroyed, and Resi Corporation fixed the radiation problem, so you haven't exactly lost much. All you did was make a hasty, ill-informed decision that invited a full-scale nuclear exchange. You used a mass nuclear strike as the first course of action, when it should only be the last. That deserves to be condemned and countered. An intelligent nation would have at least used a much more surgical and less all-encompassing approach, and would likely have looked for conventional avenues instead.

[1) Given that the job was to completely and utterly cripple his military, I don't think I used too big a stick.

2) Sorry, I should have had 400 missiles, as each sub carries twenty missiles. As for the warheads, the missile is a custom designed one that allows for just four more than the max of a Trident D5, so it's not all that unreasonable. As for the ABM systems, to get that kind of shoot-down rate would imply having your system in place near Farfetched prospect. I find that just a tad unlikely given that not only was your decision to interecept off-the-cuff, but it is unlikely that your version of Cheyenne Mountain would have known what the target of my launch was until after MIRV seperation.

3) Unless those nanites can reverse the effects of cascade radiation, my ships are still lost. Never mind what the EMP did to my weapons and electronics. And while you're no doubt right that I could have done something like having the people responsible assasinated, I don't have that kind of patience for someone who will be responsible for at least a million deaths once the cancer victims are counted.

4. This bickering is pointless anyway, because Farfetched is nowhere to be seen and even if three quarters of my missiles were shot down, he still has to RP the damage of 1600 warheads to his various strategic resources.]

DNA - Doujin News Agency

"An ongoing evacuation is occuring at Orinico City. City and National Officials both confirmed that the heavy prevailing winds heading in an easterly direction is already in part of the city. The easternly side has been evacuated, and the rest of the city is on medical lockdown. Radiation levels from the cloud are surprisingly high, much higher than they should be. Estimated deaths to be caused from the radiation is over half a million."

"I'm Joyce Hagberg, we will be right back after this short break."

[code:1:6cd7f062d4]>>Adding "Dancing Moose & Farfetched prospect" to black list......

>>Data Transfer complete.

>>Ceasing all trade with "Dancing Moose & Farfetched prospect".......

>>Estimated losses in Iuthian revenue: $00.00 (USD)

>>Electronic Transfers blocked, mailmerge sent to Iuthian business owners...[/code:1:6cd7f062d4]


We utterly condemn Farfetched prospect for their terrible lack of moral and unprovoked strike against Doujin. We will make a note of this action and we will make a point of keeping your nation on the blacklist for ever.

Meanwhile we would like to further condemn Dancing Moose for being willing to support this nation.

OOC: Hey I supported him first, how come I don't get condemned or get on your black list?

I'll make another IC post about your losses later Doujin.

[1) Given that the job was to completely and utterly cripple his military, I don't think I used too big a stick.


No offense intended, but I think you have some problems with numbers... Aka, you use them without knowing what they actually mean.

You used warheads with a yield of slightly more than 500kilotons TNT...

That means, you used warheads with more than 20 times the yield of the hiroshima bomb. Mind you, that goes for every single warhead on one of your MIRVs

That isn`t a surgical strike.

Not even against the entire military of a nation.

It´s genocide.

Even if targetting military installations, the civilian casualities would be abhorrend.

Second, you fired enough missiles with enough warheads to take out the territory Clan Smoke Jaguar mentioned. 600000km^2.

That is slightly less than twize the size of germany.

I`m very sorry for you, but... Calling that a surgical strike, OOCly, is just incredibly stupid.

[Yes, that is true, assuming that they all hit. However, given that the warheads are being engaged by three different ABM systems, I don't expect more than 25% to hit. And frankly, I'm not targeting individual warheads in a spread pattern, I'm targetting missiles at a target. That means that upwards of sixteen warheads could hit a target assigned to a single missile. Given the +-3m accuracy of the warheads, that just makes a really deep crater, which is exactly what I want to happen because I'm assuming he's not stupid and has placed what strategic assets he can under several meters of earth/rock/metal so as to protect them from individual strikes. Also, don't lecture me about genocide when that's exactly what has already occured against an ally that I have a defensive obligation to.]

Doujin: any word on my offer?

[I just re-read Farfetched prospect's response to my attack and it seems I didn't read it all. Apparently, and I don't know how he pulls this off, his entire military command structure is in two fixed facilities. If this is so, he's already RPed their destruction and the matter is settled and I'm satisfied with the result. I would like to note, once again, that my warheads are not fusion weapons and have little fallout, so their should be no deaths from contaminated material.]

Freethinkers, anyone can do what you did with creating the Doujin. There is really nothing special to it. So, before you came along, why did no one attempt to do it? Because it simply isnt practical. No one is going to waste hundreds of ships engaging and destroying that ship. Also, if the whole jet kamakaze thing wont do anything to that ship then I doubt small quick fighter aircraft making strikes with missiles would either.

Jordaxia, obviously you havent seen the pic of the Doujin compared to the Iowa class battleship, so what your saying has nothing to do with this 'argument'.

Iuthia, um, check you blacklist.. I think I may already be on it for something else, but hell, I dont care.

Doujin, I would get you the info on the MADAE but it doesnt really matter now since hes already posted losses for the strike.

If it isn't practical and has no use then why are you making such a big fus about it DM? :P It is practical (for me anyway) and has a perfectly good use. And you just ignored the other two solutions to doing it. Just because you lack innovation doesn't mean you have to take it out on me and Freethinkers :)

Iuthia, um, check you blacklist.. I think I may already be on it for something else, but hell, I dont care.

OOC: No, Shinoxia was on my blacklist, you weren't.

It's odd really, because you see I've got this thing about the blacklist, what tends to happen is that I share my list with other nations in larger alliances, I point out that nations on that list are not trustable and I show them why...

But of course, it's not likely to come back and haunt you. But it does lable you as a nation people can't trust. And I tend to make the list stick too. So it may not matter for now, it probably will never matter and I kinda hope it doesn't... but you never know.

HOW TO DEFEAT THE DOUJIN 101: HOW THE FREETHINKERS (OR INDEED, ANYONE) CAN NEUTRALISE THE DOUJIN THREAT.


1) Destroy Doujin's economy. Without money the Doujin cant run. Funds are the Doujin's achillies heal. Do this by surgical strikes on infastructure and industry, and on convoys. Doujin's economy is built is built on heavy industry, he needs to import raw materials and export equipment. Sink them! No money, DN Doujin is just a floating hulk.

Yes, we could, but we would have to get through his navy first now wouldnt we.

2) Use small, fast strike forces. The DN Doujinis a slow giant. Attack Doujin with quick strike teams that enter and leave his teritory quickly. This helps 1), the Doujin cant really fight them, and if against the island of Doujin itself, forces the dreadnought to stay home to defend the motherland, preventing overseas deployment.

Like I said, missiles dont have an effect on the Doujin, as I have recently learned. Doujin doesnt have just one battleship, maybe one Doujin, but there are other classes that are just slightly less powerful.

3) Use mines. The propulsion arrangement of the DN Doujin is highly vulnerable to mines because of its designs. Use minefields to slow the beast down by forcing her to stop and use minehunters to search for them. She doesnt stop or get going very quickly. Increases costs, allows oppurtunities for quick strikes to damage her.

First off, there is a 50/50 chance the Doujin will ever run through a minefield, unless it is operating close to shores. Unless it is attacking a whole other nation, then the chances of it entering a 'minefield' is very low.

4) Attack the ammo supply. The DN Doujin runs through ammo like Bill clinton through cigars. She needs constant resupply of ammo to remain on station. HINT????!?!?!?!?

Only if my ships were in the right place at the right time. After all, the Doujin can destroy entire battlegroups with one salvo and even if my ships caught auxillaries in-between the Doujin and the homeland, then they would have to fight through escorts (which could very well vary in terms of strength).

These are so many ways in which to neutralise the DN Doujin threat, and all of them require GREAT RP PRACTISE in order to do. Yes, Doujin does have some counters (which he wont go into here), but in turn you have your own intuition.

Ok, so not only would the mines, planes, or ships attacking the Doujin have to suceed in there main target they would have to get through its counters.

Are you happy, Doujin? Im not the only one 'fussing' about it.. I mean its not practical in that no one would really ever want to RP against it because it is completely overkill, and could very well (as pointed earlier) ruin great modern-tech RP's.

Iuthia, um, check you blacklist.. I think I may already be on it for something else, but hell, I dont care.

OOC: No, Shinoxia was on my blacklist, you weren't.

It's odd really, because you see I've got this thing about the blacklist, what tends to happen is that I share my list with other nations in larger alliances, I point out that nations on that list are not trustable and I show them why...

But of course, it's not likely to come back and haunt you. But it does lable you as a nation people can't trust. And I tend to make the list stick too. So it may not matter for now, it probably will never matter and I kinda hope it doesn't... but you never know.

You could never completely ban me from making alliances in the future. I hold the ones I have now in great value, so terminating them is a difficult task. The MADAE, for instance, has top-secret technology that was a gift to my nation through one of my alliances. Also, I am getting telegrams all the time asking for alliances, and you have to admit, getting into them arent that hard, even on the regular forum. My word is just as good as yours, my friend, so im telling you now that trying to in a sense blackmail me in the future, well, just isnt going to work. So my position still stands, I could care less if I was on your list Iuthia.

Actually, I have, and impressed I was, but anyways.
Obviously a small conventional missile strike would be ineffective, but, for simple visual reference nothing more, if you've seen independance day, with the fighters launching missiles and theres lots of them, I imagine that would have at least some effect on any ship, including Doujin. Also, a large bomber raid, all dropping fairly heavy bombs 250-500 lbs would also have effect. (at least I think it would. If you are so worried about the Doujin though, you could do what everybody else used to do: come up with an equivalent design. Heres another factor. There is only one Doujin. It cannot make that much of a difference in a large scale war (but it would in a large scale battle) because a: its hella slow, so your faster ships can avoid it b, turrets the size of doujins would also take a long time to turn, so you could maneouvre with them to fire for longer before they can target c, u-boats? (I'm sorry but I have no idea what its asw equipment is like.) You can't whine because somebody has a bigger toy, just get used to it or do something. (*small print read fast. " not a request by Jordaxia to cause another strike on doujin. home may be at risk if you do not keep up repayments, batteries not included.")

You could never completely ban me from making alliances in the future. I hold the ones I have now in great value, so terminating them is a difficult task. The MADAE, for instance, has top-secret technology that was a gift to my nation through one of my alliances. Also, I am getting telegrams all the time asking for alliances, and you have to admit, getting into them arent that hard, even on the regular forum. My word is just as good as yours, my friend, so im telling you now that trying to in a sense blackmail me in the future, well, just isnt going to work. So my position still stands, I could care less if I was on your list Iuthia.

OOC: You miss understand, It's not going to ban you from alliances, but it does create troubles with certain nations who know Iuthia well.

But you are right, it's not going to affect you. The people who are allied with Iuthia wouldn't bother with your nation.

Jordaxia:
Actually 1000-2000Lb penetrator bombs would likely be a better choice, or you coudl use a 15,000lb bunker buster....

Everything is killable and this sort of ship would need a very special target to ever be used so it is unlikely you would ever encounter it unless you are attacking the home land of the owners...

Actually, I have, and impressed I was, but anyways.
Obviously a small conventional missile strike would be ineffective, but, for simple visual reference nothing more, if you've seen independance day, with the fighters launching missiles and theres lots of them, I imagine that would have at least some effect on any ship, including Doujin. Also, a large bomber raid, all dropping fairly heavy bombs 250-500 lbs would also have effect. (at least I think it would. If you are so worried about the Doujin though, you could do what everybody else used to do: come up with an equivalent design. Heres another factor. There is only one Doujin. It cannot make that much of a difference in a large scale war (but it would in a large scale battle) because a: its hella slow, so your faster ships can avoid it b, turrets the size of doujins would also take a long time to turn, so you could maneouvre with them to fire for longer before they can target c, u-boats? (I'm sorry but I have no idea what its asw equipment is like.) You can't whine because somebody has a bigger toy, just get used to it or do something. (*small print read fast. " not a request by Jordaxia to cause another strike on doujin. home may be at risk if you do not keep up repayments, batteries not included.")

All of these attacks you state someone could use against the Doujin are completely counterable, thus lowering the sucess rate of the mission. Trust me, missiles arent going to work. You can ask CSJ about that, cant he Doujin? In this flowing list of points you made, the only one I picked out is bombing. This brings up a very interesting topic. First off, 250 pound bombs are really small, so they for sure would not do anything to this ship. The main thing that really marks this off of the 'list of things to use against the Doujin' is its vulnerability to enemy fighters, and even if I had defensive fighters, there is always that chance that the bomber will get shot down.

OOC: But you are right, it's not going to affect you. The people who are allied with Iuthia wouldn't bother with your nation.

Good.

[quote=Dancing Moose]You could never completely ban me from making alliances in the future. I hold the ones I have now in great value, so terminating them is a difficult task. The MADAE, for instance, has top-secret technology that was a gift to my nation through one of my alliances. Also, I am getting telegrams all the time asking for alliances, and you have to admit, getting into them arent that hard, even on the regular forum. My word is just as good as yours, my friend, so im telling you now that trying to in a sense blackmail me in the future, well, just isnt going to work. So my position still stands, I could care less if I was on your list Iuthia.

OOC: [size=10]You miss understand, It's not going to ban you from alliances, but it does create troubles with certain nations who know Iuthia well.

OOC: Yeah, we're blacklisted, high five DM!

Hey when you blacklist me, can you put me down in red and highlight my nation, also could you write down "highly dangerous" and "warmonger."

If you could I'd appreciate it.

Oh, while your at it could you do the same for my buddy DM, I'm sure he'd be grateful too?

Alright so what's next in this thread?

Time to answer Doujin, sorry if this is the wrong thread...

1. No, it's just your diplomacy is different from mine. You use words to stop a war, I try and provoke one.

2. Your withdrawal has no real effect on me since I was mainly interested in Great Mateo's and CSJ's. However, IDF seems to know alot about this topic and if he could get a design together...

Riksdag statement:

Bonstock will intervene militarily on the behalf of Doujin if the situation continues.

High Command

"We cannot foolishly engage in this war. However, its a miracle that we were not destroyed ourselves when we released our megaships."

"Sir, should we continue?"

"Ask Douijin how we can help. Humanitarian assistance, SDIs, whatever we can do. Lets just hope is doesn't lead to war."

"Yes, sir."

Four Bonstocknian C-17s are flying to Doujin full of disaster relief supplies.

oopsie daisy... forgot which kind of technology to deal with, so naturally the bombs I put up are a smidgen on the small side. I was kind thinking in ww1-ww2 technology, not, "my ships guns are bigger than your ship" high end modern tech.
Still, everything has a weakness. Who would send 1 bomber? I assume that you meant to pluralise it. But you all kind of have me here. I only really know man-o-war type naval strategem, so I guess that maybe I might not be the best to give defining weaknesses on an ultra-modern ship. So, a query of my own. Without having to actually sink the ship, couldn't you just diable the turrets and engines then blockade it so nobody can get in to fix it?
Thats on the very unlikely circumstance that for some reason the flagship of the doujin navy is alone.

Ok first, it doesnt matter how many bombers I send. They can all be shot down as easy as one can (thanks to missiles..). Next, the Doujin has like 20 30in guns in 5 quad turrets. As on the majority of other battleships, the turrets and barbettes are usually the highest armored part of the the ship. So you could imagine that taking out just one turret would have a little to none damage rate, as far as combat effectiveness goes, not to mention how hard it would be to do this in the first place.

P.S.- Oh yeah, thanks for mentioning that Shinoxia, I would like that stuff put by my name also on your list.

What can I say. Doujin hit the jackpot here. You'll need to build a ship of equivalent size in order to combat it effectively. (The pre-ww1 British dreadnought, as I'm sure you're aware, had the same impact that the Doujin had, as it too made every other ship obsolete. So, everybodies answer was to copy it, make a few changes, and build their own.
It won't cost as much now anyway, as a precedent has been set.
Still be a lot though. Still, I'm sure there are plenty ways to take it out as it stands. If I wanted to, I'd try, even if I got wiped out. But, its not as if Doujin has more than one of these, and he has so many standard ships that you couldn't win a protracted naval campaign against him any way.

We would offer humanitarian aid to Farfetched prospect but the situation there is just too confusing (How on earth can a fully formed army that still has the use of fairly major logisitcs and infrastructure not deal with a few coperations, and almsot by defination the military command would be the govenrment... it just perplexs me).

Atheist Reality is an ally, he helps me out there


4. This bickering is pointless anyway, because Farfetched is nowhere to be seen and even if three quarters of my missiles were shot down, he still has to RP the damage of 1600 warheads to his various strategic resources.

Yeah thats the problem right there....I only have 2 stragetic locations and you managed to blow one of em up, the other was saved

Also, don't lecture me about genocide when that's exactly what has already occured against an ally that I have a defensive obligation to.]

Sorry...WHAT!!! three on one MILITARY target is an defensive strike, genocide it trying to destroy an entire population thank you very much, and did I try that? no!!

[code:1:9cc422ec04]>>Adding "Dancing Moose & Farfetched prospect" to black list......
[/code:1:9cc422ec04]

By doing that your only helping my cause.....and I couldn't care less

What can I say. Doujin hit the jackpot here. You'll need to build a ship of equivalent size in order to combat it effectively. (The pre-ww1 British dreadnought, as I'm sure you're aware, had the same impact that the Doujin had, as it too made every other ship obsolete. So, everybodies answer was to copy it, make a few changes, and build their own.
It won't cost as much now anyway, as a precedent has been set.
Still be a lot though. Still, I'm sure there are plenty ways to take it out as it stands. If I wanted to, I'd try, even if I got wiped out. But, its not as if Doujin has more than one of these, and he has so many standard ships that you couldn't win a protracted naval campaign against him any way.

I dont think anyone else is planning on creating a battleship that equals Doujins. This is mainly because most other nations on NationStates would agree that creating another battleship similar to his is a waste of time and money. They would much rather have a real modern tech war where the enemy fleet matches their own (power wise). There is no point in trying to adapt to what Doujin and The Freethinkers has done, because, like I have said numerous other times, is just not practical. Sure some people here and there will try to take Doujins ships out... but they usually just either get beat or give up.

About naval campaigning against him, that is a whole other story. If he didnt have those battleships, then many nations would be able to take him out. Me and Shinoxia for example, we both have a whole lot more money that he does, and probably more ships, if not, then we could certainly buy them (which I doubt we would need to do).

Doujin, me and Shinoxia have done some deep investigation into your nation. From what you have been saying, this corperation that sells your ships controls your government, or nation, correct?

After calculating your military budget (yes I can do this, anyone can) it seems that it comes out to (rounded up) 147 billion annually. Its a shame to see that you have no tax rate, but this is most likely due to your government style and your promoting of corperations to running your nation.

Since corperations run your nation, this means that the only money subjectable to your military budget would be export profits. Including military personell pay and other government, or should I say corpertation, subsides, your budget would have to be at the most 250-300 billion annually. I really dont think that is enough to fund all of your naval needs, including your superbattleships, and all other naval vessels you have.

Location: Apex

Repair on main complex has been started...losses are

Death: 32
Radiated: 156
wounded: 56

http://www.members.lycos.nl/voicustyle/project.jpg

*cough cough*
((OOC: Is the Doujin a space ship or a water ship? Either way, 5-10 of my Vek Raven Units (http://members.cox.net/resicorp/vek.htm) could completely destroy it. Neigh-invincibility is a great thing. :wink: ))

IC:
In the core of the HUB, the most advanced military training facility in the entire corporation, Commander Ugar was observing the new recruits run the obsticle course. Suddenly and without warning, a private burst through the door to the obsticle course.
"Sir!" the private shouted, "Word has it that Doujin, a member of the Corporate Islands, has been attacked by a nuclear device!"
"Oh really?" Ugar replied, "Does this allow us to attack the bastards who did that, or does that New Resian Charter that bitch Narasagi drafted up prevent that?"
"Well, the New Resian Charter clearly states that defensive war is alright, so we're assuming that no, we can attack the enemies of the Doujin."
"Most excellent," the commander replied, "Oh, and send something to clean up that little mess the nuke made. You know what I mean."
"Yessir!" the private said, saluting before he ran off.

An hour later, an Un-Nuke nanobomb is dislodged from its orbit over Earth and begins to plummet towards the nuked area of Doujin. Within minutes, radiation-eating nanomachines begin to disinfect the area for use by Doujin once more. As the Un-Nuke began to fall, a message was relayed from the Resi Corporation to the Doujin government, stating, "Please accept this gift from a fellow member of the Corporate Islands to you. We are giving you back the use of your soil, which radiation would have otherwise contaminated for generations." Very consise, to the point, and effecent. Such was the trademark of the corporation.A response would be appreciated, even if it is only a token diplomatic one.

*cough cough*
((OOC: Is the Doujin a space ship or a water ship? Either way, 5-10 of my Vek Raven Units (http://members.cox.net/resicorp/vek.htm) could completely destroy it. Neigh-invincibility is a great thing. :wink: ))

IC:
In the core of the HUB, the most advanced military training facility in the entire corporation, Commander Ugar was observing the new recruits run the obsticle course. Suddenly and without warning, a private burst through the door to the obsticle course.
"Sir!" the private shouted, "Word has it that Doujin, a member of the Corporate Islands, has been attacked by a nuclear device!"
"Oh really?" Ugar replied, "Does this allow us to attack the bastards who did that, or does that New Resian Charter that bitch Narasagi drafted up prevent that?"
"Well, the New Resian Charter clearly states that defensive war is alright, so we're assuming that no, we can attack the enemies of the Doujin."
"Most excellent," the commander replied, "Oh, and send something to clean up that little mess the nuke made. You know what I mean."
"Yessir!" the private said, saluting before he ran off.

An hour later, an Un-Nuke nanobomb is dislodged from its orbit over Earth and begins to plummet towards the nuked area of Doujin. Within minutes, radiation-eating nanomachines begin to disinfect the area for use by Doujin once more. As the Un-Nuke began to fall, a message was relayed from the Resi Corporation to the Doujin government, stating, "Please accept this gift from a fellow member of the Corporate Islands to you. We are giving you back the use of your soil, which radiation would have otherwise contaminated for generations." Very consise, to the point, and effecent. Such was the trademark of the corporation.A response would be appreciated, even if it is only a token diplomatic one.

I don't think they want a Future tech in here...sorry

Resi, thank you very much - however you are future tech and at the request of others I can't really allow it :(

Resi, thank you very much - however you are future tech and at the request of others I can't really allow it :(

Several paradrop planes take off, carrying a total of 5,000 Doujin Troops all equiped with the VEPR to overthrow the government of Farfetched prospect. Along with that, we await the deployment of Soviet Bloc forces to further this strike.

Several paradrop planes take off, carrying a total of 5,000 Doujin Troops all equiped with the VEPR to overthrow the government of Farfetched prospect. Along with that, we await the deployment of Soviet Bloc forces to further this strike.

OOC: I forgot...what was Soviet bloc going to do again?

OOC: You didn't forget because you aren't aware of this :P He's offered the service of two airborne assault divisions, which is abuot 16,000 troops, 140 light tanks, and 180 infantry vehicles.

OOC: You didn't forget because you aren't aware of this :P He's offered the service of two airborne assault divisions, which is abuot 16,000 troops, 140 light tanks, and 180 infantry vehicles.

Against the socialists or capitalists?

Capitalists.

Capitalists.

Good....those troops would have been slaughtered against the socialists

HOW TO DEFEAT THE DOUJIN 101: HOW THE FREETHINKERS (OR INDEED, ANYONE) CAN NEUTRALISE THE DOUJIN THREAT.


1) Destroy Doujin's economy. Without money the Doujin cant run. Funds are the Doujin's achillies heal. Do this by surgical strikes on infastructure and industry, and on convoys. Doujin's economy is built is built on heavy industry, he needs to import raw materials and export equipment. Sink them! No money, DN Doujin is just a floating hulk.

Yes, we could, but we would have to get through his navy first now wouldnt we.

2) Use small, fast strike forces. The DN Doujinis a slow giant. Attack Doujin with quick strike teams that enter and leave his teritory quickly. This helps 1), the Doujin cant really fight them, and if against the island of Doujin itself, forces the dreadnought to stay home to defend the motherland, preventing overseas deployment.

Like I said, missiles dont have an effect on the Doujin, as I have recently learned. Doujin doesnt have just one battleship, maybe one Doujin, but there are other classes that are just slightly less powerful.

3) Use mines. The propulsion arrangement of the DN Doujin is highly vulnerable to mines because of its designs. Use minefields to slow the beast down by forcing her to stop and use minehunters to search for them. She doesnt stop or get going very quickly. Increases costs, allows oppurtunities for quick strikes to damage her.

First off, there is a 50/50 chance the Doujin will ever run through a minefield, unless it is operating close to shores. Unless it is attacking a whole other nation, then the chances of it entering a 'minefield' is very low.

4) Attack the ammo supply. The DN Doujin runs through ammo like Bill clinton through cigars. She needs constant resupply of ammo to remain on station. HINT????!?!?!?!?

Only if my ships were in the right place at the right time. After all, the Doujin can destroy entire battlegroups with one salvo and even if my ships caught auxillaries in-between the Doujin and the homeland, then they would have to fight through escorts (which could very well vary in terms of strength).

1) Well, yes...you have to get through his navy, precisely like every other naval power has had to do for the history of naval warfare.

2) Use small strike teams to attack strategic targets before the slow moving Doujin and her battlegroup arrives. The Doujin's main weakness, along with her cost, is her speed, or, more specifically, her acceleration and turning speed, and all she'll end up doing is chasing you around as you destroy one target after another.

3) Right, firstly I am going to take the considerable risk of you knowing what mines are and what damage they actually do, and the risk this presents to task forces. Now, you're right in the fact the Doujin probably wont hit a mine, but their ease of placement and the exceptionally long time its needs to fully clear or checkout even the smallest bit of sea slows the Doujin down very considerably. A journey that takes days for a normal warship would take months for the Doujin, simply because of the constant remanuovering and slowing down the ship has to do.

4)Well, no, you just do what every naval power in the history of naval warfare has done and plough the sealanes looking for his auxiallaries. See those big domes on top of warships and AWACs planes? They do actually do something useful. As for the escorts, see answer 1.

These are so many ways in which to neutralise the DN Doujin threat, and all of them require GREAT RP PRACTISE in order to do. Yes, Doujin does have some counters (which he wont go into here), but in turn you have your own intuition.


Ok, so not only would the mines, planes, or ships attacking the Doujin have to suceed in there main target they would have to get through its counters.

Disassembling the statement in full:

So, apparently, you're asking that in order to succeed in an attack, you are wondering if you must:

1) Hit the target with your weapons, and:
2) Avoid the target's efforts at protecting itself.

*sighs*

:roll:



Are you happy, Doujin? Im not the only one 'fussing' about it.. I mean its not practical in that no one would really ever want to RP against it because it is completely overkill, and could very well (as pointed earlier) ruin great modern-tech RP's.

Well, yes, some people do fuss about it. Im sure the German and French naval commands fussed about the Dreadnought when she came out too. Its meant to make a fuss. Ive already counted several missile programs and at least one other Super-dreadnought program taking shape.

And judging by your wonderfully adept statements above, I can fully understand if you do not wish to have a RP involving a ship that "could very well...ruin great modern-tech RP's". Well then, for those of us that do, we'll have an RP involving the full naval economic and military warfare spectrum as well as simulating combat between multilevel and multiforce naval combatants designed for the NS enviroment, and, in turn you and whoever can go lob cruise missiles at each other.

I hope noone takes offence at this but the basic arguements being put up are a...weak. :roll:

Its meant to make a fuss. Ive already counted several missile programs and at least one other Super-dreadnought program taking shape.
Ah well he is right there. I had to rush the development of my new sub because of this thing. And its still not going to be ready for at least 15 NS years! (I like to rp it realistically)

*nods* Understandable, it took over 30 NS years of development for the Doujin.

4. This bickering is pointless anyway, because Farfetched is nowhere to be seen and even if three quarters of my missiles were shot down, he still has to RP the damage of 1600 warheads to his various strategic resources.

Yeah thats the problem right there....I only have 2 stragetic locations and you managed to blow one of em up, the other was saved


[Okay, here's where I'm going to say, "how?" As in, how the hell was the other location saved against 635 warheads? (FYI, that's 10% of the warheads originally launched.)]


Also, don't lecture me about genocide when that's exactly what has already occured against an ally that I have a defensive obligation to.]

Sorry...WHAT!!! three on one MILITARY target is an defensive strike, genocide it trying to destroy an entire population thank you very much, and did I try that? no!!


[Neither did I, but you hit a city with 9 megatons worth of weapons (and if you'd look at Doujin's loss stats, you'd see that his losses are overhwhelmingly civilian.) But this is all beside the point, because I'm going to pound your military to scrap the conventional way.]

1) Well, yes...you have to get through his navy, precisely like every other naval power has had to do for the history of naval warfare.

Well then why the hell would you mention that then? I could start making attacks on Doujins homeland, once the Doujin itself was already gone.

2) Use small strike teams to attack strategic targets before the slow moving Doujin and her battlegroup arrives. The Doujin's main weakness, along with her cost, is her speed, or, more specifically, her acceleration and turning speed, and all she'll end up doing is chasing you around as you destroy one target after another.

Hmm, this doenst really make to much sense.. are you talking about strategic targets along Doujins main coastline? Whatever that means, in a way, it doesnt matter. If I had one battlegroup at a time working at destroying these strategic targets, if they even got the slightest bit into the Doujins range... it would be over. When you say, "before the slow moving Doujin and her battlegroup arrives...", what if the Doujin was already at the target my fleet was planning on destroying? If disregarding the use of global positioning satellites, my ships would have to wait untill they got within 300 nautical miles before they picked up enemy ships, and then they would have to determine whether or not they should still attack (given they cant distinguish between the Doujin.. and lets say.. an aircraft carrier).

3) Right, firstly I am going to take the considerable risk of you knowing what mines are and what damage they actually do, and the risk this presents to task forces. Now, you're right in the fact the Doujin probably wont hit a mine, but their ease of placement and the exceptionally long time its needs to fully clear or checkout even the smallest bit of sea slows the Doujin down very considerably. A journey that takes days for a normal warship would take months for the Doujin, simply because of the constant remanuovering and slowing down the ship has to do.

Well I do know the power and the different types of mines, but you could very well mean a nuclear mine, so could I use those? The ultimate destruction the Doujin can induce upon a given number of battlegroups at a time supercedes the fact that she is 'slow', which in fact, is not, 31 knots is (on average) the speed of my ships.

4)Well, no, you just do what every naval power in the history of naval warfare has done and plough the sealanes looking for his auxiallaries. See those big domes on top of warships and AWACs planes? They do actually do something useful. As for the escorts, see answer 1.

(Well technically I wouldnt have to plough aimlessly through the open sea lanes if those 'big domes' were working correctly) So, right there I would have to not only find them, I would have to sink them, and hope there isnt a convoy immediatly following this one once I pull out. All these factors greatly reduce my chances. For one, there isnt just one superbattleship, and two, there should be a good enough number of auxilllaries already traveling with the Doujin.

Disassembling the statement in full:

So, apparently, you're asking that in order to succeed in an attack, you are wondering if you must:

1) Hit the target with your weapons, and:
2) Avoid the target's efforts at protecting itself.

Well, right there count (1) and (2) as one statement, and add on the following: RAM, CAP, CIWS, escorts. :roll:





Are you happy, Doujin? Im not the only one 'fussing' about it.. I mean its not practical in that no one would really ever want to RP against it because it is completely overkill, and could very well (as pointed earlier) ruin great modern-tech RP's.

Well, yes, some people do fuss about it. Im sure the German and French naval commands fussed about the Dreadnought when she came out too. Its meant to make a fuss. Ive already counted several missile programs and at least one other Super-dreadnought program taking shape.

Ok, wow, one person (who is probably Doujins 'ally') is laying up a copy of his ship.. out of the thousands of people on NS... wow.. im impressed. You think this is an astonishing naval development. You think it will be like the Dreadnought in impact. However, what you have failed to realize, is that this ship is not that special. There is nothing special about it. No one is going to waste in the high billions creating a ship that no one will RP against. Now, you can wine all you want saying it is, but sooner or later your going to get a grip (hopefully, and for the sake of everyone here). All this ship is, is overkill. Thats it. When people first started playing NS, if they really wanted to see the extremes put to the test (in a utopia world), then they would have done it. Anyone can make a ship over 3000 feet long. Its not that hard. So why havent people not done it, before you?

And judging by your wonderfully adept statements above, I can fully understand if you do not wish to have a RP involving a ship that "could very well...ruin great modern-tech RP's". Well then, for those of us that do, we'll have an RP involving the full naval economic and military warfare spectrum as well as simulating combat between multilevel and multiforce naval combatants designed for the NS enviroment, and, in turn you and whoever can go lob cruise missiles at each other.

Hmm, so you think having modern tech battles with battleships will simply be, 'lobbing cruise missiles at each other'. Just so you know, 'for those of us who do...' is like 3-4 people. Your use of sarcasm to make yourself think you are putting me down is interesting, really. Its sad though, you could actually think in the real sense about things, how modern tech battleship duels would have more than just launching cruise missiles. You know, I would like you to explain why creating an enlarged version of a modern battleship would bring more fun to people (given they had big battleships of there own to fight). Really, tell me that, and then I will chose if I understand or not.

I hope noone takes offence at this but the basic arguements being put up are a...weak. :roll:

Well, your use of sarcasm (even here, lol) does kinda make me look down at you and shake my head, but oh well.

OOC: Some questions about the Doujin's vulnerabilities

1) I can understand why some people see nuclear strikes as a viable counter to the Doujin... besides the fact that they are capable of doing substantial damage, the Doujin is a very large military target, so use of a nuclear weapon would likely not inflict civilian casualties... though ocean life and postdetonation effects would be a difficulty. Still, one would hope such would be a last resort.

2) How much does the Doujin cost to maintain? Im sure its astronomical, even if she just sits at her moorings. I certainly agree that the ship can be crippled economically more easily than conventionally, due to its huge requirements of fuel, ammunition, and other goods. The question arises, however, about the rest of the Doujin navy... given the funds, ammo, fuel, etc. used up by the Doujin when it is on active duty, would it not be difficult to simultaneously maintain a full conventional navy? It would seem that one would not be able to keep enough ships active to cover all the requirements of supply escort, coastal patrol, shipping lane protection, and escorting the Doujin itself... certainly there would be extreme vulnerability at some of those points?

3) And arg to you.... the Doujin construction/launch threads appeared just as the hull of Spyr's first superbattleship hit the water (itself a counter to Bonstock's Draken battleships)... its obsolete before it even begins trials! But, perhaps all is not lost... Freethinkers doesnt happen to have any naval engineering schools open to foreign students ^_^?

1) Technically to the RP-challenged mind, then yes, a nuke does seem an attractive option. However, the DN Doujin is moored near a city and urban area of roughly 50 million, if what Doujin told me was correct. Even a small attack would have civilian casaulties. On the move, it is very hard to hit something with an ICBM, and a tactical weapon faces a very good chance of being shot down. Plus, most of the Doujin's future deployments will be as part of an OMP task group, and as you have seen, some of them are surprisingly quick to the draw in retaliation for a nuclear strike.

2) Funding for the Doujin equates roughly, I worked out as something like the cost of 1.5 taskgroups running, and probably the equivelent when docked. Doujin has a very powerful economy and high(ish) military spending. His navy I believe recieves something like three quarters of a trillion dollar defense budget (roughly proportionately equal to the US's current military spending), and most of his navy is in reserve or stationary as well.

The other important fact is that DoujinCorp is both the Government and sole provider of Government services, I think, so that there is a limited cyclic flow of cash that those allow for more expenditure (if I remember my economics correctly). The DN Doujin is, however, also a very powerful political and commercial tool for Doujin as well as a military one. Indeed her role in deterrance and political muscle more than outweigh her actual combat potential, so she does have quite a few extended roles in which to justify her expense.

3) Lol, well, I guess thats just the history of warfare. I dont mind sharing warships ideas and if you want to send a student to a Freethinker naval university then by all means do so.

You do bring up some points I would like to touch on, Spyr, the Doujin is a very expensive ship. To make, maintain, and much less.. maintain the rest of his ships (which supposedly number many). A normal nation of Doujins size would easily be able to maintain this, but, well, he is not normal. For one, he has no tax rate, and two, a corporation supposedly runs his nation. With his economy as it is, he does have a military budget, but since hes saying his military budget is strictly a cut from his export profits, it would be considerably less in one year, given what all he sells in the that period of time.

Freethinkers, the max military spending Doujin can have is 15%. Even with this applied, his max military budget a year is only 147 billion.

DM, proof for your budget statement would be helpful. And the statement that his entire budget comes from sales is somewhat random.

And stop trying to make out like your some sort of tactical master. I have explained one of many, many plans how to defeat the Doujin and all you have given me back is waffle about how you cant even attack a convoy and how the Doujin is useless even though she can destroy your navy. You say you pity me when all you have done is repeat yourself and show you lack any imagination in terms of warfare. If Mach 3 kamikazes is all you have, why do you think we would want to RP with you if that is all you have to offer?

Remember star wars? Great story, think it would have been so great if the death star had all the size and power of a armoured mushroom? No. Big things require special tactics=excitement=good RP. RP's are stories, remember, not just battlelogs of your Arleigh Burkes shooting at some other guys Tricondegas (sp).

Anyway.

As far as Im concerned this stops here. We cant convince each other and quite frankly Im sick of it, as Im sure you are too. This will be my last post on the subject of the Doujin's point in NS.

From this point on this thread is solely concentrated on the war between Doujin and his allies and FP.

DM, proof for your budget statement would be helpful. And the statement that his entire budget comes from sales is somewhat random.

Wha? Random? How is it random? If his nation is run by a corporation like he says it is, then yes, his military budget would come from export profits. Anyway, go here and calculate his budget to see for yourself: http://members.fortunecity.com/thracetailteann/html/gnp.html

And stop trying to make out like your some sort of tactical master. I have explained one of many, many plans how to defeat the Doujin and all you have given me back is waffle about how you cant even attack a convoy and how the Doujin is useless even though she can destroy your navy. You say you pity me when all you have done is repeat yourself and show you lack any imagination in terms of warfare. If Mach 3 kamikazes is all you have, why do you think we would want to RP with you if that is all you have to offer?

Thank you for dubbing me as a tactical master, I rather appreciate that. What I say back to your 'plans' on how you can destroy the Doujin is how that plan would not work. The Doujin is useless. Yes, the Doujin can destroy entire battlegroups at a time. When we get to this point, you just simply arent understanding me. The Doujin is a worthless waste of money because no one is going to build a ship that will compete with it, much less one of Doujins enemys. They would much rather have there nation commit suicide by nuking them than spending all this money just to bet it can beat the Doujin. Please answer my question though, why would you just make and enlarged version of a modern battleship and expect people to have more fun using them when all they have to do is use the battleships they have now to fight in a war? They arent going to have more fun using battleships like these because all they are is big copies of smaller battleships.

Remember star wars? Great story, think it would have been so great if the death star had all the size and power of a armoured mushroom? No. Big things require special tactics=excitement=good RP. RP's are stories, remember, not just battlelogs of your Arleigh Burkes shooting at some other guys Tricondegas (sp).

No. Obviously you havent seen all of the different types of battleships people (such as CSJ) have made that can compete with other peoples battleships. This is what people want. Not an enlarged version of a battleship, a battleship. Also, if your implying that a good modern day naval battle can not make a good RP, well, thats just sad. BTW, its Ticonderoga's.

Anyway.

As far as Im concerned this stops here. We cant convince each other and quite frankly Im sick of it, as Im sure you are too. This will be my last post on the subject of the Doujin's point in NS.

From this point on this thread is solely concentrated on the war between Doujin and his allies and FP.

Lol, well, I guess you are right in the sense that you wont get a grip on reality, but ok, its fine with me that it ends here. Yall can fight, but FP, I suggest you stop this, and I promise you, Doujin will have his day.

[I fail to understand your bitching, because what's the likelyhood that you will over go to war with Doujin? Also, that GDP calc on Pipian is the standard by which most people determine GDP, that one tends to seriously understate a nation's GDP.]

FR: Joint Strategic Command
TO: COMASFLT
SUB: War

We are currently in a state of war with the nation of Farfetched prospects. You are hereby directed to randevouz with the DM Doujin fleet and provide security until such time as she is brought into action, at which time you will join her in destroying the enemy navy.

[No, I dont understand either, Ive never seen so many contradictary points in one post. The point is I get his basic point, but now....he just...seems to like whining that his fleet would lose to the Doujin and that that is unrealistic. I think the point about nations building weapons to actually win a war as oppossed to dragging it on seems to be lost on him. Oh well. Ho hum.]

Navarre Naval Base litterally buzzed with activity. Lorries and trucks and cars and busses carrying all sorts of equipment drove up and down the various roads and quaysides inside the base. Across the water sat the Doujin, bedecked in lights, ready for her morning launch, water pouring into her drydock already from the feeders in the Navarre river and the harbour the drydock lined.

Warships, vast battleships to small corvettes lined up against the quays and piers, massive amounts of men and ammo being loaded every second that passed. Foodstuffs and raw materials were lifted over by cranes, carried downstairs by eager crewmen ready for their first combat in years.

At dawn, one of the largest combined fleets ever seen would start on its journey towards the enemy, to liberate a country from an oppressive government and to demonstrate the might of the alliance who existent had been signed into law that day. Power projection was going to earn a new definition.

What I dont understand is why you people have to make such a goddamn big fuss! ITS A NEW BISMARCK! Whoop-de-doo! Relicarms (our storefront) already stocks a ship that we are CERTAIN can defeat the Doujin in a cluster of 20 or 30. Why dont you all stop bitching and actually use your heads in an effort to try to work around the Doujin? We did, and trust me, it will probably help if you did too.

What I dont understand is why you people have to make such a goddamn big fuss! ITS A NEW BISMARCK! Whoop-de-doo! Relicarms (our storefront) already stocks a ship that we are CERTAIN can defeat the Doujin in a cluster of 20 or 30. Why dont you all stop bitching and actually use your heads in an effort to try to work around the Doujin? We did, and trust me, it will probably help if you did too.

Thank god someone is speaking sense at last.

OOC:
Since I can't keep my nose out of this stuff, I'd like to differentiate my objections from DMs.

While it would not particularly stretch my mental capacities to imagine and build a counter to the Doujin, even if it means building my own super-super-dreadnought, my objection is an aesthetic one.

I like to RP modern naval combat as it currently exists, not Super-Dreadnought wars. I don't even want to RP in a world where Super-Dreadnought wars occur. I ignore future tech for the same reasons.

I make these points because I would rather not ignore people who are obviously capable of decent RP. However, when their idea of decent RP diverges from mine, then I must resort to ignoring, or lower the RP quality for both of us.

I get your point, and it is reasonable, thank god.

I guess its down to personal preference. Some people want to RP with large ship combat, some dont, simple as that. I think it is perfectly understandable if you dont wish to operate in the same dimension as the Doujin, which I guess is whats gonna have to happen.

Well, nonetheless, good RPing. Have fun.

DM, me and the creator of that calculator have argued points before. I have no income tax, you are right. There are several forms of taxation other than income tax. People work harder when they are happy and produce more, so civil rights need to affect budget as well. That calculator doesn't take either of those two things in as part of it's deciding factor for peoples budget. IMO Pipian is more realistic.

Doujin Gross Domestic Product

Population: 677,413,014
Civil Rights: Very Good
Economy: All-Consuming
GDP per Capita: $30,283
GDP: $20,514,098,302,962
National Budget: $9,838,302,768,875

Percentage of GDP Spent on Defense: 7.19%
Percentage of Budget Spent on Defense: 15%
Military Budget: $1,475,745,415,331

I don't see what the big fuss about the Doujin is all about, just drop a nuclear bomb on it no big deal.

Sure you may kill some whales but I don't really care.

Sure the fall out may kill some innocents, but as long as they are not mine, I don't care.

Just nuke it, simple as can be.

Oh and Doujin, if you have no tax rate you have no money, the government has no power. Technically, you don't exist but since that would be no fun I guess you have some weird ways of making money, like donations or something...

If you like Pipian better fine, but your budget shouldn't improve from 147 billion to 1.47 trillion. If you have no income tax how do you make money?

IC:

The Lord's Palace
St. Patricksburg
The Chamber of The Governor

Following the High King of Shinoxia, James O'Kelly's approval of Farfetched prospect's attack on Doujin, Governor Tim O'Reily had decided to due His Majesty a favor....send in his own troops.

"Farfetched is being attacked, not a good sign for this daring nation wouldn't you think?" Governor O'Reily asked an assisstant, Cleveland Rice.

"No, sir, I don't think this will set well at all with the King." Cleveland responded.

"You know sir, this would be a fine oppurtunity to show your devotion to High King O'Kelly, not to mention raise your status in his eyes." Rice quiestioned, raising his eyebrows as if he let on about something.

"Correct, has the High King yet responded to this act of aggression by Soviet Bloc and...Doujin, what's Doujin mean anyway?" Tim O'Reily raised his arms in question.

Rice looked down, shook his head and said.

"Sir, you wouldn't want to know."

"I see." A smirk spread across his face.

"And to answer your question," Rice continued "The King is vacationing right now in Silith, however he did say that all Governor's should respond to a Doujin threat...."

That time he did let on.

O'Reily smiled, then chuckled.

"How much men and material will this require?"

Rice smiled back and ran his fingers through his hair, before tiredly responding.

"Sir, I would say around 50,000 men and ships-" he was cut off.

"What!?" Governor Tim O'Reily said angrily.

"Governor, I know this alot on such short notice."

"I don't care, 50,000 men is half of my Guard,"

That time he was cut off.

"I know sir, but this is a great oppurtunity, you get to engage the enemy, improve your status and maybe get a bit of a reward from His Majesty."

Rice let on again.

"This better be worth it." said O'Reily before walking off.

"I know it will."

OOC: As of now, the 7th fleet is being deployed to Farfetched waters to protect his nation.

Shinoxian 7th Fleet
Main Battle Group
x1 Ultor Class Super Carrier
SRS AC-2A Enfield
x2 Ticonderoga Class Cruisers
SRS CS-3A Ireland
SRS CS-4A Icebreaker
x2 Nansen Class Anti-Submarine Frigates
SRS FS-3A Unmatchable
SRS FS-4A Inevitable
x2 Amundsen Class Destroyers
SRS DD-3A Patriot
SRS DD-4A Ironsides
x2 Seahorse Class Attack Subs
SRS SMN-3A Swarm
SRS SMN-4A Dynasty
x1 Norad Class Super Battleship
SRS BB-2A Celtic Fury
x2 Arsenal Class Logistic Ships
SRS LS-3A Logistical
SRS LS-4A Caretaker
x1 Avenger Class Minesweeper
SRS MS-2A Trailblazer
x1 Mercy Class Hospital Ship
SRS SHS-2A Warmth

Fast Attack Battle Group
x3 Skjold Class Missile Boats
SRS SMB-4A Terrapin
SRS SMB-5A Eagle
SRS SMB-6A Wolf
x3 Roussen Class Missile Crafts
SRS SMB-22A Piranha
SRS SMB-23A Dolphin
SRS SMB-24A Hellhound
x4 Phantom Class Attack Ships
SRS SAS-1A Dragon
SRS SAS-2A Cyclone
SRS SAS-3A Gust
SRS SAS-4A Specter
x5 Visby Class Corvettes
SRS SAC-6A Imperialist
SRS SAC-7A Infidel
SRS SAC-8A Invader
SRS SAC-9A Sovereign
SRS SAC-10A Empire

Wolfpack Attack Sub Group
x2 Devil Ray Class Attack Subs
SRS SWN-3A Quake
SRS SWN-4A Seal
x2 Los Angeles Class Attack Subs
SRS SWN-15A Protest
SRS SWN-16A Unstoppable

OOC: points to the several multitudes of taxation in the united states. Sales Tax, Import Tax, Property Tax.. income tax isn't the only form of taxation idiot

OOC: Oh, and Shinoxia.. you need to pay attention. The people that attacked me in Farfetched prophets wants me to get rid of the extremist capitalist government. I am doing so at his request basically.

Freethinkers, I cant do anything else if all your going to do is blow off what im trying to say.

Scandavian States, all I was doing was backing my point, my opinion, so shut the hell up and keep your nose out of other peoples business.

OOC: points to the several multitudes of taxation in the united states. Sales Tax, Import Tax, Property Tax.. income tax isn't the only form of taxation idiot

Well NationStates doesnt keep up with that stuff on the summary of your nation thing so those other forms of taxation dont count, because it would be godmodding to make up the amount of tax your getting.

Pipian does, and it is the standard calculator used by most people, and approved by the Moderators.

OOC: points to the several multitudes of taxation in the united states. Sales Tax, Import Tax, Property Tax.. income tax isn't the only form of taxation idiot

Watch your words when your talking to a superior....

These other forms of tax aren't included in the summary of your nation, and they still would not bring your total cash flow up that much.

Yes I know you are trying to get rid of the capitalist government, I am trying to keep it in power.

OOC: [size=11]Superior in what? Let's see. I have a higher population, post count, better economy, civil rights.. wow what are you superior to me in?

Actually its as perfectly feasable to replace direct income tax with a variety of other means. If income tax was so good then why do western antions have to rely on so many different systems?

If you wish to ignore certain elements of your nation sumary or modify them to fit things better then youa re certainly free to do so particualrly if soem of them fail to amke sense (like my 100% tax rate and frightening economy, even i know that that sort of tax rate should kill your economy).

Just because Doujin's govenrmental system doesn't meet with your preconceived notions doesn't make it any less valid (unless of course you have a PhD in economic and govenrment thoery).

If you ahve a problem then wouldn't it be best just to step out than attempt to bully people and lower the image others hold you in.

In the realms of NS government systems that coudl never work Doujin doesn't even appear on the radar.

[Dancing Mouse, I merely commented that I can't understand why you would bitch so thoroughly when it's probably wise to keep a wide margin between yourself and Doujin, especially when you seem unwilling/unable to deal with a single ship. This thread, and particularly the Doujin, are my business and if you can't be polite to your betters then perhaps you should leave.

Shonixia, you are not Doujin's better and you are most certainly not mine, so I will kindly ask to drop the unfounded arrogance and/or leave. I can't speak for others, but it is my opinion that you are being a troll at this point and leaving a foul odor on the thread.]

OOC: [size=11]Superior in what? Let's see. I have a higher population, post count, better economy, civil rights.. wow what are you superior to me in?

he mods..... Ow...and because of Scandanavian States extreme/overpowered 4500 warheads presumeually hitting my county would mean there would be a giant crater where I am now...So I'm gonna ignore that...

OOC: [size=11]Superior in what? Let's see. I have a higher population, post count, better economy, civil rights.. wow what are you superior to me in?

Higher populations really don't intimidate me at all.

Post count? Oh wow, aren't you cool.

Better economy? Not by a long shot, my GDP is far higher than yours.

Civil Rights? Yeah Right.

You forgot military, I beat you there too.

OOC:

Shinoxia
Civil Rights: Below Average Economy: Powerhouse Political Freedoms: Few

Doujin
Civil Rights: Very Good Economy: All-Consuming Political Freedoms: Rare

Like I said, better economy, better civil rights. And how about I toss in better Navy? :roll:


Shinoxia Gross Domestic Product

Population: 601,380,521
Civil Rights: Below Average
Economy: Powerhouse
GDP per Capita: $25,479
GDP: $15,322,574,294,559
National Budget: $5,216,884,414,874

Percentage of GDP Spent on Defense: 5.11%
Percentage of Budget Spent on Defense: 15%
Military Budget: $782,532,662,231


Doujin Gross Domestic Product

Population: 676,893,745
Civil Rights: Very Good
Economy: All-Consuming
GDP per Capita: $30,285
GDP: $20,499,727,067,325
National Budget: $9,831,894,856,219

Percentage of GDP Spent on Defense: 7.19%
Percentage of Budget Spent on Defense: 15%
Military Budget: $1,474,784,228,433

Let's get into this though. Doujin is a Corporate Busines run state. No income tax gives the populace money to spend, and thus they buy our products as Doujinshi Corporation subsidiaries are basically the only business'. So, people buy stuff, that in turn goes into the company, which the companies money = the money earned by government.

GDP higher than mine? Riiiight...

[You don't read, do you FP? I said you have failed to account for the 395 warheads that were not shot down. You also fail to seem to grasp the concept that since you only have two strategically important military locations that the 395+5 that have already destroyed a target were divided between those two targets, not spread across your country. Furthermore, my knowledge of nuclear weapons indicates that ten megatons worth of gamma ray warheads would not kill every citizen in a city of 15 million, probably not even half of that and since there's so little residual radiation there won't be any fallout victims.]

[You don't read, do you FP? I said you have failed to account for the 395 warheads that were not shot down. You also fail to seem to grasp the concept that since you only have two strategically important military locations that the 395+5 that have already destroyed a target were divided between those two targets, not spread across your country. Furthermore, my knowledge of nuclear weapons indicates that ten megatons worth of gamma ray warheads would not kill every citizen in a city of 15 million, probably not even half of that and since there's so little residual radiation there won't be any fallout victims.]

Ow I read alright, but I have the same problem as you, I don't go Into details enough to make this understandable............you hit the city directly....thus killing almost everybody in the explosion,

and because it's just utterly redicilous to send 400 nukes to one site (no one would ever do such a *insane* thing) thus I'm going to ignore you on that .....now you can be unreasonable all you want but that's how thing work.

[Because you've made such an astoundingly stupid comment, I'm going to assume that you think that nuclear weapons have 100% kill rates across their entire blast radii, that is not true for even fusion bombs. Furthermore, because all five detonations occured within the blast radius of a single crater, there's no way in hell that crater could take out a city larger than NYC. And for the benefit of your simple mind, I'm going to explain how Gamma Ray Bombs work, sense you seem too lazy to look up the research and testing threads I have made.

Gamma Ray bombs work by exponentially increasing the radioactive decay of an element by x-ray or laser, I use the Talatum m2/laser combo for my weapons. When the warhead explodes, it does so with slightly more power than fusion warheads today do, but past the 900m mark for my missile warheads, a person only recieves treatable doses of gamma radiation. This means that past about 1000m, the explosion has no extraordinary levels of radiation and is thus conventional in that sense. Furthermore, because there are no alpha or beta particles to cause cascade radiation, there is almost no fallout and nothing that would be the direct cause for deaths in the immediate aftermath (although slightly elevated cancer rates are to be expected in the next couple of generations among survivers that contract immuno deficiencies.) This means that your fifteen million deaths is exaggerated and that your fallout victims are false.

As for the number of warheads launched, that is my decision and not something you just get to ignore because you don't want to take losses. If necessary, I will drag a mod into here and have a ruling made on this matter.]

[No, I dont understand either, Ive never seen so many contradictary points in one post. The point is I get his basic point, but now....he just...seems to like whining that his fleet would lose to the Doujin and that that is unrealistic. I think the point about nations building weapons to actually win a war as oppossed to dragging it on seems to be lost on him. Oh well. Ho hum.]

Navarre Naval Base litterally buzzed with activity. Lorries and trucks and cars and busses carrying all sorts of equipment drove up and down the various roads and quaysides inside the base. Across the water sat the Doujin, bedecked in lights, ready for her morning launch, water pouring into her drydock already from the feeders in the Navarre river and the harbour the drydock lined.

Warships, vast battleships to small corvettes lined up against the quays and piers, massive amounts of men and ammo being loaded every second that passed. Foodstuffs and raw materials were lifted over by cranes, carried downstairs by eager crewmen ready for their first combat in years.

At dawn, one of the largest combined fleets ever seen would start on its journey towards the enemy, to liberate a country from an oppressive government and to demonstrate the might of the alliance who existent had been signed into law that day. Power projection was going to earn a new definition.


Nice RP, I like that. But anyway my nation is a strong supporter of both Dancing Moose and Shinoxia (however I am not quite as abrasive as my comrade DM here lol) I will always support any of their actions, in fact we are in a very strong alliance between the three of us called the Triple Entant. However I will become involved in this conflict only if an agressor attacks a fellow member of the Triple Entant. And also my strategy to the Doujin is simple: avoid it, and if I do come in contact with it my fast attack groups could run circles around it lobing shells in, and we also have very advanced weapons systems that we have designed just for the purpose of taking out over sized ships. Im sure that Doujin has other reasons for building the Doujin than simple military power (as in advertisement for his coorperation, showing off, ect.).

[Because you've made such an astoundingly stupid comment, I'm going to assume that you think that nuclear weapons have 100% kill rates across their entire blast radii, that is not true for even fusion bombs. Furthermore, because all five detonations occured within the blast radius of a single crater, there's no way in hell that crater could take out a city larger than NYC. And for the benefit of your simple mind, I'm going to explain how Gamma Ray Bombs work, sense you seem too lazy to look up the research and testing threads I have made.

Gamma Ray bombs work by exponentially increasing the radioactive decay of an element by x-ray or laser, I use the Talatum m2/laser combo for my weapons. When the warhead explodes, it does so with slightly more power than fusion warheads today do, but past the 900m mark for my missile warheads, a person only recieves treatable doses of gamma radiation. This means that past about 1000m, the explosion has no extraordinary levels of radiation and is thus conventional in that sense. Furthermore, because there are no alpha or beta particles to cause cascade radiation, there is almost no fallout and nothing that would be the direct cause for deaths in the immediate aftermath (although slightly elevated cancer rates are to be expected in the next couple of generations among survivers that contract immuno deficiencies.) This means that your fifteen million deaths is exaggerated and that your fallout victims are false.

As for the number of warheads launched, that is my decision and not something you just get to ignore because you don't want to take losses. If necessary, I will drag a mod into here and have a ruling made on this matter.]

Arn't you forgetting shockwave? and about that Mod, do as you must

[No, but all explosions have shockwaves, conventional and nuclear. And very well, since you will not admend your ways.]

oh I ammend my ways alright...I was planning another attack on Doujin.....but I canceled it because of the whole giant nuclear strike

[I have yet to see you post the destruction of your second C&C facility, nor changed the losses from the first strike to a reasonable and sensible amount, nor posted reasonable losses from the second strike you have yet accepted. I'm giving you one last chance to do it yourself, because you won't like it when a mod does it for you.]

city losses:

1.5 million, direct hit in the downtown area on a workday
2 million dead following shockwave of nuclear device.

second facility, outer structure destroyed, 54% operational, core not breached,
mass casualties in outer structure: 4500,
innerstructure casulties, 156

Started operation: Tribute

------------------------------
There happy now?

[Yes. That wasn't so hard, now was it? Keep that up and I might come to respect you as a roleplayer. I am curious as to why you would put your C&C in the middle of a city, you have to know that it would be a priority target during any war, and especially in a nuclear war.]

[Yes. That wasn't so hard, now was it? Keep that up and I might come to respect you as a roleplayer. I am curious as to why you would put your C&C in the middle of a city, you have to know that it would be a priority target during any war, and especially in a nuclear war.]

It was more a underground outpost, I don't have money for satelites, to me it was an important intell office

OOC: Ok Doujin, heres something I need your help on.

I'm sure you've seen the topic around, but I'll say it anyways. Iuthia runs an organisation called INOC who make it their job to detect neclear blasts from any part of the world. The technology currently exists for it and it's completely modern tech... the idea is that before knowing why I will know that a nuclear blast has occured.

Here is a link: http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=119992&highlight=

Here is the information I require from you (OOC):

> Are you accepting this nuclear attack?

> What yield were the nukes and how many were there?

> Where did they hit? You don't have to specific, but a rough idea will suffice.

This represents the information I should know before even contacting your nation about it. Seeing as the INOC guys would have picked up this information (read the tread for more details on how). This will be followed by an IC investigation request should your nation be accepting the attack (OOC) and if you will (IC) allow it, though I won't know the second one until I've had a chance to RP the request first.

OOC: I was going to post the info in your thread soon, Iuthia :P However, due to recent relevations.. regarding, specifically, Farfetched prospect's delivery method (Mainly the fact that his plane is practically impossible for my tech, which I tend to be 2004-2006..). It all depends.

OOC: I was going to post the info in your thread soon, Iuthia :P However, due to recent relevations.. regarding, specifically, Farfetched prospect's delivery method (Mainly the fact that his plane is practically impossible for my tech, which I tend to be 2004-2006..). It all depends.

Impossible for your tech?....ever heard of Project Aurora? that was over 10 years ago, although a rumor I think my plane is a 2004 - 2006 aircraft

OOC: You know its funny Doujin, on that 'Deliver Method’ if it holds it that it’s all impossible then technically, you would have grounds to ignore the initial event that started this entire fiasco... Silly huh?

OOC: You know its funny, on that 'Deliver Method’ if it holds it that it’s all impossible then technically, you would have grounds to ignore the initial even that started this entire fiasco... Silly huh?
OOC: lol....yeah why go on for 10 pages? while you could have ignored it, if you do, then everybody resets, I will still have my city and SS will still have his MIRV's

OOC: Farfetched prospect, Aurora is rumored to only be reaching Mach 4-Mach 6, not Mach 8, and it is understood by engineers that the Aurora Plane Model that is widely distributed couldn't make large changes in direction without being torn apart. Like, for example, just complete diving..

OOC: Farfetched prospect, Aurora is rumored to only be reaching Mach 4-Mach 6, not Mach 8, and it is understood by engineers that the Aurora Plane Model that is widely distributed couldn't make large changes in direction without being torn apart. Like, for example, just complete diving..

okay.....let me draw you out this.....like I said before it was a hyperbolic flight..I'll go through the flight path step by step

1. launch, almost straight up towards a lower-orbit area,
2. near your airspace at say Mach 6, the plane is now reaching low orbit and intake fuel starts to run out (IE: oxygen)
3. The plane slows down because of low fuel and falls back into the upper athmosphere.
4. The pilot aims for the target area at a high alitude and put auto pilot on.
5. Terminal velocity starts to kick in and the engine speeds it up further to Mach 8 (while falling)
6. Friction makes the plane look like a fireball
7. the rest is history

OOC: Farfetched prospect, Aurora is rumored to only be reaching Mach 4-Mach 6, not Mach 8, and it is understood by engineers that the Aurora Plane Model that is widely distributed couldn't make large changes in direction without being torn apart. Like, for example, just complete diving..

okay.....let me draw you this out.....like I said before it was a hyperbolic flight..I'll go through the flight path step by step

1. launch, almost straight up towards a lower-orbit area,
2. near your airspace at say Mach 6, the plane is now reaching low orbit and intake fuel starts to run out (IE: oxygen)
3. The plane slows down because of low fuel and falls back into the upper athmosphere.
4. The pilot aims for the target area at a high alitude and put auto pilot on.
5. Terminal velocity starts to kick in and the engine speeds it up further to Mach 8 (while falling)
6. Friction makes the plane look like a fireball
7. the rest is history

OOC: It's up to you Doujin. I don't need extra entries in INOC and it would seem that you are entitled to ignore it if you want.

It may help everyone by not having to deal with the problem (seeing as it didn't happen) and some people like SS may be a little anoyed... but hell, he can't complain; he gets his 50 million dollar ships back.

Your choice; do you RP despite OOC problems or do you ignore.

OOC: It's up to you Doujin. I don't need extra entries in INOC and it would seem that you are entitled to ignore it if you want.

It may help everyone by not having to deal with the problem (seeing as it didn't happen) and some people like SS may be a little anoyed... but hell, he can't complain; he gets his 50 million dollar ships back.

Your choice; do you RP despite OOC problems or do you ignore.

If he does go on...does this include those 800 nukes send my way?

OOC: If this goes on then I would first note the nuclear weapons that hit Doujin, seeing as he got hit first.

Then I would ask you (OOC) to list the same information for all the nuclear weapons that have been accepted in RP terms to have hit you. We only note successful blasts with the initial information, so I would prefer to wait for everyone to work it out (OOC) first so I don't have to change it again later.

We would probably ask your nation for a INOC investigation too, once the attacks have finished. But we would be cautious... INOC isn't a government run organisation, but they are still Iuthian's and we are unsure if we could send them to your nation if you agreed to an investigation (which would proove that the blasts were offencively fired at you, as well as confirm details like how many missiles didn't suceed).

INOC's perpose is to get the facts IC, thats all they do. They also offer to help with situations once they feel it is safe enough for them to operate. They are a non-profite charity really...