NationStates Jolt Archive

**wired to all major news agencies**

"We are outside Navarre Naval Shipyard, where it is rumored that a large Battleship is being constructed. Navarre Naval Shipyard, a division of Doujinshi Corporation, supposedly has been contracted out by Doujin's Navy to construct a massive super battleship to be the Doujin's Flagship, and also effectively the largest military vessel in the world.

The Doujin Class

Like the other Doujin Navy vessels that are trimarans, the Doujin is very seaworthy and is a very steady gun platform. Even though many might consider that it would be hard to come up with an armor scheme that would give these three hulled ships a high level of protection, the Doujin class is very well armored and having three floating bodies makes the vessel harder to sink. In addition, the three hull design allows for a wider space for weapons, systems, and other vehicles than would be possible on a single hull design of about the same displacement.

The ship carries its powerful engines high in the primary hull which reduces the noise in the water greatly. While the ship is not as fast as was first thought and not as fast as the Trimaran destroyers or frigates, it is the fastest ship of its size ever constructed and on trial runs these huge ships have all exceeded 30 knots.

Like most of the Doujin Navy's larger ships, the Doujin Class has a sensor suite that is an improved version of the APAR 12 three-dimensional radar. This Phased Array radar system is more compact than the Aegis system used by most the modern world, and has greater tracking capabilities and range. The ship also has both a hull sonar system and a towed array sonar system.

The designers constructed the Doujin Class battleship using Radar Absorbent Materials extensively in the design. As a result, the Doujin Class is hard to detect. The Doujin also carries a powerful ECM system.

Model Type: BB-582 Class Battleship ( Doujin Class )
Crew: 7,250 (5,800 crewmen; 450 officers; 1000 military troops)
Speed: 32 knots
Range: Unlimited due to the Pebblebed nuclear reactor engines. Ship carriers six months of supplies and consumables on board.

Statistical Data:
Length: 981 meters (3266.7 feet)
Width: 350 meters (1166.55 feet)
Draft: 98 feet Empty, 108 Feet Full
Displacement:
Empty: 1,100,000 tons
Fully Loaded: 1,300,000 tons
Cargo: 8,000 tons of nonessential equipment and supplies. Each enlisted crew member has a small locker for personal items and uniforms. Ships officers have more space for personal items. Most ship's spaces are taken up by extra ammo, armor, troops, weapons, and engines.
Builders: Navarre Navy Shipyards (Division of Doujinshi Corporation, located in The Freethinkers)
Price: Not for sale.

Weapon Systems:
20 30" Electro-Thermal Naval Guns
12 8" Electro-Thermal Naval Guns
24 20mm/76 CIWS AA/Missile
4x PVLS
4x 660mm Torpedo Tubes (for Mk 48 ADCAP torps, 60 to be carried)
10x 7.62mm GPMGs
48 Egap Anti-Ship Missiles

Aircraft:
The Doujin Class is capable of carrying up to 160 aircraft on her two full-length flight decks.

Craft on the Doujin: List still being compiled.

Systems:

APAR 12 Type B:
An incredibly advanced radar and computer system first developed for the Mackensen Class, it far surpasses the Aegis system on most other naval vessels. Powerful and flexible radar system that is comprised of four panels that each emit radar waves. If allowed by the horizon, the system can track out to 800 miles (1280 km) and can simultaneously track and identify up to 1392 targets at one time. The system controls missile launched from the long range missile launchers and the system track and guide each individual missile to a individual target for up to 476 targets. If a target is eliminated, missiles are automatically guided to a new target. The system can also control missiles launched from other linked vessels as well and can also act as fire control for gun mounts.

Advanced Hull Sonar:
Mounted under the bow of the ship. Range of 25 miles (21.7 nm / 40.2 km). This hull sonar system has both a passive and active system built in. Sonar system can track up to 48 targets at one time.

Advanced Towed Array Sonar System:
The system is basically a long and very sensitive sonar system carried behind the ship on a long cable. Range of 100 miles (86.9 nm / 160.9 km). This towed array sonar system has both a passive and active system built in. Sonar system can track up to 81 targets at one time.

Sonar Masking System:
The hull is designed to minimize noise from the hull and uses water bubbles to form a barrier against sonar as well.

Combination Radar Detectors and Active Jamming System:
Combination of radar detection systems (ESM) and an active jamming system. The system can detect another radar system at 125% of the range of the transmitting radar.

Command and Control Capabilities:
The Doujin Class Battleship was originally designed for Admiral Miller, Admiral in Chief of Doujin's Navy as his personal ship. The Flagship of the Doujin Navy, it's command and control facilities are extensive. It can track all Doujin Naval movements, and is directly connected with the GDnet Sattelite to provide real-time tracking of all Doujin ships. It is tied in with the defense systems along the Doujin coastline, and can effectively keep track of all enemy movements within sensor range of any Doujin vessel or defensive position. The Doujin Class battleship has more proccessing power than any other Battleship.


[reporter]Now, the Doujin Class with her large size would not be able to dock anywhere but Doujin's main shipyard and seaport, Xendi. Located in the middle of the Doujin Sea, Xendi Shipyard's draft limit is 240 ft. Xendi is 20 km wide and nearly 55 km long. Supported by 60' round steel reinforced concrete pillars, Xendi is more than capable of taking the stress, pressure of the water, and weight of various vessels being produced in drydock.

[ooc: picture coming eventually; Changed the name to attract more people.. come on guys I want opinions]

(bump) come on opinions? [ooc]

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Source: SSNN Website, Military Section

Although officials within the Admiralty have declined to comment on the Doujin class "Super Battleship", sources state that BuShips is both questioning the practicallity of a ship that is thirteen times as massive as a Nimitz and whether or not the battle-hardened MacKensen battleships are up to modern standards. This question coincides with the rumors of a naval restructuring that could possibly bring the size of the navy down by as much as half...

7 posts there Doujin! Amazing. The boards are rather slow at the moment aren't they?

Well, the ship look like it can handle itself in combat nicely, though you're not going to take anything from me after you kicked my Admiral out of your meeting. HA.

Anyway, myself I prefer smaller ships that can get everywhere quickly.

OOC: 30" guns wow!

oh my.. stupid board..

the Nimitz and Iowa class can only do about 30-34 knots.. so this is pretty damn fast for a battleship of its size.

[Triple post]

DDA Defense Agency private conference room

The Minister of the Navy addressed the twelve people currently gathered in this conference room. They were discussing an issue of utmost importance, behind closed doors, in the DDA building in Jaganda - they were not to be heard.

"It seems that our allies in Doujin has released a new naval vessel," he began, surveying the group. So what else is new, they though. Doujin had released many, many, high quality naval vessels in the past. These people did not understand why this one was so much more important. "A trimarian naval vessel," he added as an afterthought. Again, the group's faces were monotonous. All Doujin naval vessels were trimarian.

"Is it a submarine?" someone asked. Now a submarine trimarian would be something new. The rest of the group laughed.

"No, it's not a submarine," said the minister. "It is a battleship."

"Didn't they already have a battleship?" asked one member.

"True. But this is different. This is unique. This battleship is thirteen times as massive as the Nimitz-class carrier. Doujin is responsible for bringing back a limited number of battleships into this navy. Now he may be responsible for fullfilling our Isles defense needs." He paused for effect. There barely was any.

"The Doujin-class battleship is one hell of a large ship, men...and women. As mentioned before, it completely dwarfs the Nimitz. It is also very seaworthy, able to stay at sea for six months at a time... this battleship is 981 meters long...981 meters long.

"Its weapons system is nothing short of amazing. There are twenty 30" naval guns, and 48 ASMs, just to break the tip of the iceberg. Is that all? Barely. It is in my own personal opinion that Doujin has made their first naval mistake ever. They called this a battleship.

"Tell me, gentlemen...and women...how many battleships do you know that carry 160 aircraft?"

-----
OOC -

Zoogiedom is very interested in this colossal battleship. We would require a total number of six, to fulfill the defense needs of the Three Islands area that separates the Isles from the rest of the world. We realize this is not yet on sale, but it has certainly drawn our attention. The navy prefers smaller vessels itself, but the Doujin-class is looking to be a primary defense vessel.

-----

IC again -

"Send an encrypted message to Admiral Gately...make sure he brings this up at the conference."

"Yes, sir."

----

OOC again - Nice.

DDA Defense Agency private conference room

The Minister of the Navy addressed the twelve people currently gathered in this conference room. They were discussing an issue of utmost importance, behind closed doors, in the DDA building in Jaganda - they were not to be heard.

"It seems that our allies in Doujin has released a new naval vessel," he began, surveying the group. So what else is new, they though. Doujin had released many, many, high quality naval vessels in the past. These people did not understand why this one was so much more important. "A trimarian naval vessel," he added as an afterthought. Again, the group's faces were monotonous. All Doujin naval vessels were trimarian.

"Is it a submarine?" someone asked. Now a submarine trimarian would be something new. The rest of the group laughed.

"No, it's not a submarine," said the minister. "It is a battleship."

"Didn't they already have a battleship?" asked one member.

"True. But this is different. This is unique. This battleship is thirteen times as massive as the Nimitz-class carrier. Doujin is responsible for bringing back a limited number of battleships into this navy. Now he may be responsible for fullfilling our Isles defense needs." He paused for effect. There barely was any.

"The Doujin-class battleship is one hell of a large ship, men...and women. As mentioned before, it completely dwarfs the Nimitz. It is also very seaworthy, able to stay at sea for six months at a time... this battleship is 981 meters long...981 meters long.

"Its weapons system is nothing short of amazing. There are twenty 30" naval guns, and 48 ASMs, just to break the tip of the iceberg. Is that all? Barely. It is in my own personal opinion that Doujin has made their first naval mistake ever. They called this a battleship.

"Tell me, gentlemen...and women...how many battleships do you know that carry 160 aircraft?"

-----
OOC -

Zoogiedom is very interested in this colossal battleship. We would require a total number of six, to fulfill the defense needs of the Three Islands area that separates the Isles from the rest of the world. We realize this is not yet on sale, but it has certainly drawn our attention. The navy prefers smaller vessels itself, but the Doujin-class is looking to be a primary defense vessel.

-----

IC again -

"Send an encrypted message to Admiral Gately...make sure he brings this up at the conference."

"Yes, sir."

----

OOC again - Nice.

OOC:Sounds pretty sweet, and definatly something that would intimidate the enemy by the mere mentioning of it's specs! I would post some RP, but i got to head off to english class.

[ooc: Zoogie, I don't know if I will ever release this ship to the public. We do have a vessel.. almost half the size.. 660,000 tons.. the Leviathon (http://www.geocities.com/doujincorp/leviathon.html).. you may be interested in her..

Lutrae: That is what it is supposed to do, power projection.

[ooc: Zoogie, I don't know if I will ever release this ship to the public. We do have a vessel.. almost half the size.. 660,000 tons.. the Leviathon (http://www.geocities.com/doujincorp/leviathon.html).. you may be interested in her..

Lutrae: That is what it is supposed to do, power projection.

[ooc: Zoogie, I don't know if I will ever release this ship to the public. We do have a vessel.. almost half the size.. 660,000 tons.. the Leviathon (http://www.geocities.com/doujincorp/leviathon.html).. you may be interested in her..

Lutrae: That is what it is supposed to do, power projection.

[ooc: Zoogie, I don't know if I will ever release this ship to the public. We do have a vessel.. almost half the size.. 660,000 tons.. the Leviathon (http://www.geocities.com/doujincorp/leviathon.html).. you may be interested in her..

Lutrae: That is what it is supposed to do, power projection.

[ooc: Zoogie, I don't know if I will ever release this ship to the public. We do have a vessel.. almost half the size.. 660,000 tons.. the Leviathon (http://www.geocities.com/doujincorp/leviathon.html).. you may be interested in her..

Lutrae: That is what it is supposed to do, power projection.

Isn't it part of your naval package?

[ooc: Zoogie, I don't know if I will ever release this ship to the public. We do have a vessel.. almost half the size.. 660,000 tons.. the Leviathon (http://www.geocities.com/doujincorp/leviathon.html).. you may be interested in her..

Lutrae: That is what it is supposed to do, power projection.

Isn't it part of your naval package?

As far as Im aware, the Leviathan isnt for active sale yet.

The largest warship offered is the Thunder Child Class.

No it isn't, havn't renamed it yet in power projection (the thunder child class is in PP)

"Good evening, and Hello. Tonight I have with me chief of maritime design, and ex-navy Master Chief of Scandavian State's Navy."

"Hello Martha, I am glad to be here with you tonight."

"We are glad to have you here with us too. So tell me, this rumored "Super Battleship", how much damage do you think it could do?"

"Well, let's say that this battleship would broadside fire all 20 of it's 30" guns.. we are talking about 3,600 tons of shells.. that is the equiivalant of a tactical nuclear warhead being detonated. For a 30" gun it would be firing an 18 ton shell, and each shell would be capable of leveling a city block.. 20 of them at once.. well like I said, you have the equivalant of a tactical nuke."

"Wow, amazing.. what about range?"

"Well, a 30" gun can fire well over 100 km. If this battleship exists, or is being produced, it would out range any battleship out there today. Not to mention outgun, there isn't really a battleship that can come to mind that can stand up over one impact.. well no, there is one.. developed by Doujinshi Corporation as well. The Leviathon (http://www.geocities.com/doujincorp/leviathon.html) Class. That could take a few of 'em, but like I said.. nothing would be able to last to long. It would rip an Iowa Class battleship to shreds."

"Thank you, Will. That is all the time we have for right now. We will be right back after this small break."

[Commercial]

"Will, are you serious? A tactical nuke?"

"Yes Martha, I am quite serious. And I don't doubt Doujinshi Corporation has the ability to make this baby either."

"Amazing, well.. good to have you on our show tonight. Hope to have you on again sometime."

"I'd like that Martha, thanks for having me on."

The two shake hands and Will heads out of the building.

[Sorry, Scandavian States.. didn't know who else to use, couldn't use Doujin]

[I was a little surprised at first, but it's no problem. I'm honored that you acknowledged my fine navy.]

Public Broadcast, aboard the DN Behemoth

"Good evening, ladies and gentleman. I called this press conference over the rumor of a "Super Battleship" in development, which has seemingly spread like a wildfire over the world. Such a battleship does not exist, and if it does we sure wish we knew who owns it. Navarre Naval Shipyards and Xendi Shipyards both have been inspected and have not come up with any trace of a "Super Battleship". We ourselves did design at one point something similar, but we made no plans to construct it, much less use it in day-to-day naval activities.

The employee at Navarre Naval Shipyards has since been laid off, for spreading lies to gain a profit. Dock 2 at Navarre Shipyards is being converted to a scrap metal holding warehouse, and he was using it's closure to spread a media frenzy over some non-existant battleship.

Any questions? Yes, you. Marcus, good to see you. Your question?"

"Last night, Martha Steward invited Will Reiker from Scandavian State's Navy onto her show. He claimed that if such a battleship were built, a salvo from all her guns would equal the damage of a tactical nuke. Is this true?"

"Ehrm, yes. 20 30" Electro-Thermal Naval Guns impacting on, say, a Mackensen Class at say 80 kilometers away would most definatly equal the damage of a tactical nuke, if not do more. Just giving you an example there, it would be the same damage most likely at larger ranges.. as I am not totally sure as the range of a 30" Electro-Thermal naval gun.

Any other questions?"

Many reporters raise their hands.

"Guess not, thank you for your time and have a good night."

Admiral Miller steps away from the podium and walks away.

"Admiral, you think that will get them off our backs?"

"I'm not sure, there reporters."

Both the Admiral and his assistant began laughing.

Admiral Gately stared at his computer screen.

[code:1:6cc22853e1]
Doujin - 'Super battleship' - 13x Nimitz size, 48 Egad ASM, 20 30" guns, to name a few attributes. 160 aircraft. Investigate, find out, return w/ report. Requirement of min 4, max 6, for 3i defense
[/code:1:6cc22853e1]

The message deleted itself barely after he finished reading it. He wondered...they had just denied this 'Super Battleship,' but he noticed the 'example' that the Admiral had used was 20 30" naval guns...

He sent a message back to the Defense Agency

[code:1:6cc22853e1]
Received.
[/code:1:6cc22853e1]

------------Meh, Triple Post--------

------------------------------------

Colonial Satellite Communications Command

"What does the ICBM Satellite in Earth Orbit offer us?"

"Well, we see the Battleship, very strong and capable. They do not lie, Chief General, as such I believe even the Three Mile long Behemoth could have trouble with it."

"I see, Doujin is a nation low on threat, so we will not interfer with their quest for dominance. However, I want them to know we watch. Understand?"

"Yes sir, ICBM Satellite signaled to begin Messaging Doujin Transmissions."

Every time a Transmission enters Doujin, the ICBM Satellite picks it up and quickly adds a line to it.

[code:1:4af5aed231]We watch from above, we watch from afar.

We see everything, and everything sees you.

Allow us to say, without further delay.

Be Warned, Be Warned, Comrade Brethren of Doujin.

For intervention from above might seek to be near.[/code:1:4af5aed231]

Nodea Rudav, you role-play a future tech nation. As such, I disregard anything you say or bring forth to the table.. as you are future tech and I am Modern-near future (2 years max in the future)

Considering the Doujin Class is still in a covered drydock, and is still being very much constructed, there is no way you could see.

And the Behemoth is not 3 miles long.. 3 miles is over 5,000 feet..

OOC:

If I may respectfully remind my Fellow Role Player whom has chosen the name of Doujin that I am a Pro-Modern Space Nation, years being 2040-45. I wish to also say that the Colonial Forces Space Fortress, CFSF, Behemoth is a currently constructed ship of the Colonial Space Forces.

I wish to express my deepest apologies for disrupting the timeline of events. Henceforth I shall post here no more.

Thank you.

Mt. Scellia CIC...

The printout is inspected from all sides by the men in the small room, a blurry image of the 'Super Battlehship' is displayed on the moniter. The man in a Scellian Naval uniform looks over the design. "Looks like a massive waste of money, it must have a radar cross section the size of the moon. All I can suggest is a new class of missile big enough and fast enough to take it down, but we don't even know if it exists."
The AF man looks over it as well, "The Wolverine is very versatile, we could make a maritime version. But like you said, we don't even know if this exists AND Doujin seems to be a very reasonable nation, and not likely to give the design to just anyone."
"True, but just in case."


OOC: Is this radar stealth? Also, what is the velocity of the shell at impact? How fast can the guns fire?

im working out the rate of fire, thats for another "interview", it is radar stealth, the hull uses radar absorbent materials extensively. It will show up on radar.. but it wont show up the Doujin Class.. a battleship possibly, but not the doujin :p

Oh, and this design will be given out to NO ONE, so if you want to buy one then you are shit out of luck. This is the Doujin Flagship, unique and it stays that way.

OOC: I thought so, and I doubt that I will need any defenses against it. Still, if you could sometime release that info, I want to compare and contrast with my battleship. Much smaller, a lot smaller.

lol

I want to compare and contrast with my battleship. Much smaller, a lot smaller.

OOC:

1. this ship is so supermassive that it would pretty much not fit in any port or canal on earth, or even NS for that matter, unless it was custom built
2. claiming thirty knots for a vessel that weighs more than 1 million tons is probably not realistic
3. the crew seems a bit smallish to me; shouldn't something 13 times the Nimitz have a similar crew...?
4. twenty 30' cannon AND 160 aircraft... call in Clan Smoke Jaguar on that one.

I don't need to, I am discusing it with two students of maritime design.

The guns are on the center deck, while the flight decks are on the two aux. hulls (it is a trimaran)

And the fact that it is a trimaran reduces sea friction, allowing it to travel much faster than monohulls. You are right, it is supermassive.. it is supposed to be. It only has one port, mine at Xendi Shipyards, and it won't be going through any canals anytime soon. It is highly automated vessel, and many functions are taken over by a computer with more processing power than most the Doujin Navy. Thank you for stating the obvious, Skepticism.

I hope you don't plan on sailing that thing near the continential shelf anytime soon.....

Impressive? Yes. Is it godmoding? Eeeh, it's not very practical, but you *could* build it if you wanted to....

It can only be in one place at one time, though. Plus, if you lose it? Ouch. Big ouch.

That goes for everything, Kilean. You can't be in two places at once :P

You know, I just realized something.. I have one helluva I.G.N.O.R.E. cannon when the Doujin is complete :lol:

OOC:

You do realize the IGNORE Cannon is what Nodea Rudav, and I, fear the most?! How dare you! HOW DARE YYYYOOOUUUUU!!!!!! Lol.

IC:

Comrade Brethren Doujin,

We ask as a fellow Comrade Brethren that, even as we are in another Solar System, we build a Colonial Outpost in the far reaches of your Nation, away from anything to disturb your People, so we can have another Outpost on Earth that can store and create Assests for Defending and Keeping the Peace between our Allies, and defending Neutrals Sovreignty.

We understand if you say no, however, we ask you to remember that an Embassy will be the first building to be constructed so that, if you so wish, we can be told to go away and you can have fun Destroying the base with IGNORE Cannons and great big BOOM Makers, and such.

Anyway, we ask this as a friend, and shall NOT interefere with anything about or in your Nation, because once we build this Outpost, we must DEFEND The Nation we build it in.

Alliance would be good too.

Thank You,
Kata'Re
Leader of the Colony of Nodea Rudav
Nova Kretani Solar System, Planet Novar

P.S.

As an added MUST, your Nations Military, even Civilian populus, is welcome to inspect our Outpost, if allowed, and we will obide by National Regulations.

lol @ ignore cannon comment..

[ic]
Nodea Rudav can use the peninsula (if that is what it is called, sticking out west of "Galidor Island" I guess we could call that chunk of land, with Galidor as its highest populated city.

OOC: Althought it appears to have a few systems that could interest you on your battleship, but it mgiht require some redesigning. Are you interested? All I want is a treaty with you, but both of those can be worked out later.

Maps of Doujin:

http://www.angelfire.com/ns2/doujincorp/doujinmap.PNG
(Normal Map)

http://www.angelfire.com/ns2/doujincorp/dd1map.PNG
(OOC Secret map)

It's protected a bit from sea powers with large 32" cannons? or larger.. i can't remember atm.. its in my factbook

OOC: Althought it appears to have a few systems that could interest you on your battleship, but it mgiht require some redesigning. Are you interested? All I want is a treaty with you, but both of those can be worked out later.

rephrase that so it makes a bit more sense please, and treaties are great.. Doujin loves treaties

We thank you Comrade Brethren Doujin and shall pick.....a deserted yet sizeable island. Your Military, Civilian Populus, or any such from your nation is allowed, by terms of Outpost Construction, to enter whenever they can get there.

Construction begins in 1 RL Hour, Base contruction and Embassay Construction shall be finished in 2 RL Days.

Thank you, we are ever greatful.

The technology you might be interested in...

1. Revolver style loading: Larger then regular system, but can third or quarter reload time

2. Advanced Ammunition: Smaller payload but can double range by adding a rocket motor to shell, increases impact speed and KE power. Greatly increases accuracy, by order of magnitudes. Allows fixed gun emplacements on ship.

3. Multi-chambered Guns: A fixed gun system that allows a shell to accelerate the entire length of the gun by affixing firing chambers down the length of the barrel. Combined with advanced munitions a multichambered gun can retain accuracy and range with impact speeds at Mach 2-3.

4. THEL: Replace several AAA placements with shipboard THEL, lasers will bring down the heavist of missiles before they reach your ship, and heavy shells.

Essentially we are offering technical help for a defense pact, if I'm attacked or attack someone then you help me. The reverse is true as well.

The technology you might be interested in...

1. Revolver style loading: Larger then regular system, but can third or quarter reload time

2. Advanced Ammunition: Smaller payload but can double range by adding a rocket motor to shell, increases impact speed and KE power. Greatly increases accuracy, by order of magnitudes. Allows fixed gun emplacements on ship.

3. Multi-chambered Guns: A fixed gun system that allows a shell to accelerate the entire length of the gun by affixing firing chambers down the length of the barrel. Combined with advanced munitions a multichambered gun can retain accuracy and range with impact speeds at Mach 2-3.

4. THEL: Replace several AAA placements with shipboard THEL, lasers will bring down the heavist of missiles before they reach your ship, and heavy shells.

Essentially we are offering technical help for a defense pact, if I'm attacked or attack someone then you help me. The reverse is true as well.

1. We already have an advanced auto-loading system.

2. I believe that amunition is called a SABOT round, and we already have ammunition with Scramjet's in it. Effectively, those rounds can reach over 500 miles away.. but a much smaller payload.

3. Our naval guns are Electro-Thermal Naval Guns, intense magnetic pressure is put on the ammunition in conjunction with the normal firing.. allowing it to fire at an alarming speed.

4. I don't do lasers, to "future-esque" for me.

And you don't have to offer that stuff. If you want a defense treaty then ask for one and we can sign one.

OOC: As a note, the THEL is an actual laser system made by TRW systems. So it is not future tech, or even maybe seeing is it actually exists, and has been tested and shot down missiles/artillery shells.

Scellia wishes to pursue a mutual defense pact, are the previously laid out terms agreeable with you.

OOC: Actually I just wanted to help because the ship sounds cool.

we wil talk about all that later.. im goin to bed.. if you wanna get ahold of me my contact info (aim/blah/blahblah) is here -> http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=131871&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight= <- bottom of the first post

i've had comments on how my chimera class battleship is too big, how do you expect people to take this insane creation of yours seriously?


it is not a ship, it is a giant seaborne target

simple, i'm quite serious - thats how :p i dont know about your chimera class battleship, what I do know is that if this ship were to be built today in the RL world it could be.. it would just be impractical.

I imagine you are future tech because that is one HUGE ship. Any pictures?

modern-near future, its a naval vessel layarteb.. pics coming soon enough

Naval vessel, ship, it's all the same. Symantics are not a big thing in my country. I do have to go with earlier statements though that it is highly impratical and doubtful it could be built but this being NS and realism is fun to a certain degree (lol because we all go over the line once or twice ;)) it certainly would manuver like a pig in the water and would present a very nice target for submarines.

if it were built in NS it would still be impractical and the loss of it would be---devastating

if it were built in NS it would still be impractical and the loss of it would be---devastating

Yeah it's definitely a "shiny red button." Looking at the stats just makes you want to sink it for the hell of it :) :twisted:

Next person to down Doujins Creation, which IS AND CAN BE PRATICAL USE IRL, I will.....will....cry like a little baby! :shock:

can anyone say nuclear torpedo? :twisted:

can anyone say nuclear torpedo? :twisted:

Next person to down Doujins Creation, which IS AND CAN BE PRATICAL USE IRL, I will.....will....cry like a little baby! :shock:

A 3,000 foot ship in real life? You see how hard it is to get a carrier up to speed and manuever and it's 1/3 the size? IRL a ship like that would not only be nearly impossible to support in dock but cost more money then an entire fleet of ships to maintain on a yearly basis.

...ok, I'll shut up...just trying to defend the dude for trying, I mean, com'on, we all like to get Uber-Cool Ships that blast things and make things go BOOM!

yeah we do, but i at least tried to make mine realistic

...ok, I'll shut up...just trying to defend the dude for trying, I mean, com'on, we all like to get Uber-Cool Ships that blast things and make things go BOOM!

Hey I'm not saying that it's a godmod or that it sucks. Frankly I can't wait to see a picture of it. But in IRL it would be impossible, is this real life no. But I have to say that anything that big and massive is just a giant Bulls-eye and I frankly would take some pleasure sinking it but then again I'm a sadistic person so :lol:

If it turns into something that manuevers like a speed boat then I have to say that godmodding yes but right now its in the gray area.

Intelligence Officer Robert Jiles was reading over the reports,

"Well, thats one hell of a ship. I have to give them that. But holy crap, thats almost a kilometer long! I dont know of many docks that even could support that kind of ship! You know, there's a famous saying when it comes to things like these...Dont put all your eggs into one basket..."

OOC: Wouldn't it be classed as a dreadnought sized? It's believable.
OOC2: Wouldn't a laser be rather short-ranged?

CK-ROC systems offers it's congratulations to Doujin Shipyards for it's new creation.

Well, the ship is techincally feasible, but is nowhere near practical. Some things to note.

1. 30" guns, even ETC with advanced loading systems, will fire well under 1 round per minute. You have to get well above current technology to do better. Consider for a moment that the shell should be in the range of 25-30,000 lbs/11,338-13,605 kg, over 10 times the weight of a 16" APC round. I'd say that it should take at least 3-4 minutes per shot.

2. Trimaran hulls reduce friction, but not by that much. I don't think this thing should be going even 20 knots.

3. Using a normal crash stop, an Iowa takes over a mile. This thing could run aground in the distance it would take to do that (not an exaggeration). A barn-door stop could be used, but that runs the risk of damaging or even losing the rudders, especially on something like this.

4. RAM in the design is a complete waste. Nothing you do with give this a signature of less than a very large battleship, and claiming it to be hard to detect would be absurd. Heck, an AEW aircraft could track it visually. Nice try though.

5. If you're using only Mk.48 torpedoes, why bother with 660mm tubes when 533.4mm is sufficient? The Seawolf's larger tubes are expanded for other things.

6. Average life cycle cost will be several billion a year. Construction cost is tens of billions. Hope you can afford it.

7. I'm curious as to just how much armor this thing has.

Practicallities :twisted:

Heh....

Well, its an interesting set of arguement you put up, so, I will try my best to answer them.


1. 30" guns, even ETC with advanced loading systems, will fire well under 1 round per minute. You have to get well above current technology to do better. Consider for a moment that the shell should be in the range of 25-30,000 lbs/11,338-13,605 kg, over 10 times the weight of a 16" APC round. I'd say that it should take at least 3-4 minutes per shot.

Fair enough...it will have a slow firing rate, but advances in guidance measures will ensure improved accurracy, and with twenty guns...you sytill ahve a considerable amoutn of fire coming down on any poor sod at the other end.

The warship is built mostly for NGS as opposed to warship to warship combat. At roughly 100ft draft she will have trouble getting close, but in turn her guns will allow her not to.

2. Trimaran hulls reduce friction, but not by that much. I don't think this thing should be going even 20 knots

Lol, true. Thirty knots however, is the top out speed, reachable after a couple of days flat out accelerating. The Doujin is driven by very large water jets as opposed to normal screw propellers, which does help improve speed somewhat as well as reducing water disturbance.

3. Using a normal crash stop, an Iowa takes over a mile. This thing could run aground in the distance it would take to do that (not an exaggeration). A barn-door stop could be used, but that runs the risk of damaging or even losing the rudders, especially on something like this.

Well, the ocean is big, and when we consider how much larges NS is than rea-life.....you get the point.

remember, eveyr route that this thing does when it is deployed is going to be carefully calculated. We arent going to be suddenly surprised by a rocky outcrop. If worse comes to worse we can always drop anchor, though of course this wouldnt be pretty....

4. RAM in the design is a complete waste. Nothing you do with give this a signature of less than a very large battleship, and claiming it to be hard to detect would be absurd. Heck, an AEW aircraft could track it visually. Nice try though.

Not really, though we will admit the ship will stick out like a sore thumb.

Doujin's forces do have several very large battleship classes already ins ervice, so you could theoretically confuse them. Although I will admit it is likely any enemy worth half his salt will see through that. I will concede on this I guess.

5. If you're using only Mk.48 torpedoes, why bother with 660mm tubes when 533.4mm is sufficient? The Seawolf's larger tubes are expanded for other things.

So are these ones....lol. Limited minelaying capabilities and the deployment of ROVs for mine-hunting are important considerations.

6. Average life cycle cost will be several billion a year. Construction cost is tens of billions. Hope you can afford it.

Same for a battlefleet which has a fraction of its capabilities. Looking at Dpujin's sales sheet will tell you if he can afford it or not. Remember, aside from a massive amount of firepower, it is a floating advertisement for Doujin corp.

7. I'm curious as to just how much armor this thing has

Surprisingly limited. Light titanium composite over foot thick plate steel. However, the sheer depth of the ship, as well as its auxiallary hulls, vastly improve its survivability.

Here's a big problem with this thing that nobody has mentioned yet.

What I'm interested in is where the two flight decks go when you have that many guns. Now a ship of 300m length can fit a maximum of about 6 III/16" turrets. This is roughly 1 turret every 50 metres (building in for the super structure). Now a 30" turret will have to be a lot bigger, I'm guessing you will be able to space them about 93 metres apart. I'll assume you're running them in 7 turrets, which means 651 metres of deck are taken up by the primary armament. You have 330 metres in length in which to fit the two flight decks and all those missiles. I'll assume you're arranging the secondary armament in two rows alongside the super structure.

A cannon like that would not actually have any significant extra gains in range or accuracy over a smaller cannon either, mainly because of the difficulties in building a long barrel. Deck armour around the guns would also have to be considered. I believe with 16" guns you need a minimum of about 1" of armour plating or firing it will do structural damage to the ship. Your guns will need about 2".

Also your draught is totally wrong. You should be sitting at about 75-76 metres draft when fully loaded for a ship of those dimentions. Thats about 249 feet. This means that your ship would have trouble with obstacles such as a continental shelf. It will make it impossible to get into a port. This is working on the assumption you have a big square bottom to the boat, which you do not. In reality the draught would be quite a bit more.

The sonar's range is miles over what any real world sonar is doing. I believe you have actives in there that are doing 4x the range of advanced passives. Likewise the radar is pushing through fantasy and out the other side into God knows what. You are claiming a radar that has about 8x the range of long ranged modern systems. IF something like that was even possible you'd need to install a nuclear reactor or two to power it.

Also unlimited range is impossible unless you're claiming to have invented some form of pepetual motion device. Also I havn't seen how many screws and engines this has.

Now construction. I don't think 50 years is too bad a guess considering a large Battleship would take about 10 years and things like that increase exponentially.

Big ships don't like big waves.

Conclusion: Of no logical use if stats are. Unless the draft is tweaked it is completely impossible. Radar and Sonar systems make it future tech. Engine is Ubertech.

Im assuming you dont realise this is a trimiran.

Five quad mounted turrets spread through the primary hull with two flight decks supported on trimiran hulls is not implausible.

Draft, because of the huge amount of displaced water, will only be 30 metres...if you have done the bouyancy calculations then I would love to see them. Im not saying you're wrong but I would like to check mine roughly. I will place the burden of proof on you :)

The reactors I didnt design, and I will agree that unlimited range is implausible. But that is an issue with Doujin, not myself.

The trnasmission power of radar and sonar and the size of the arrays is the most important factor in determining the range and power of the equipment. With a lot of tonnage and powerplants to work with, there will be no problem in this regard. (although you will be buggered if you want to watch TV on the ship, and the strength of the sonar will most likely kill every fish and whale for forty or fifty miles...)

The problem with construction is fairly understandable, and it would take fifteen to twenty years of NS construction time to complete. However, you must factor in that most warship construction time includes fitting out, which often takes longer than ship construction itself.

And no, it doesnt have a practical use. Niether do any of the hundreds of Iowas and Montana's floating around. The point is power projection. You will not fight any naval battle with an opponent of this size.

At least fight one and expect to win.

OOC: Hmmm, that could probably comfortably take on a Hell class carrier, and it might even win (just).
Still, it's no match for a Domination class sub...

Doujin Military Security force headed out, boarding the DN Eden and preparing to depart to Navarre Naval Shipyards. A taskforce was prepared for defense of the top-secret Doujin Class Dreadnought. Overally, 8,000 armed infantry units will guard closely the battleship, along with multiple naval vessels guarding the seaport and laying sensor in the sea.

And you all assuming that you catch the Doujin alone.. she will be in a battlegroup as well.. and a Carrier is a carrier.. it is for plane, and I don't see your specs on it. I'd like to see you get your planes even near the Doujin, past our fighters and anti-aircraft missiles and weapons.

Ships en route to Navarre:
DN Eden - Thunder Child Class
DN Solar - Lunar Class Aircraft Carrier
DN Helix - Lunar Class Aircraft Carrier
DN Antares - Nebula Class APAR Destroyer
DN Aeon - Nebula Class APAR Destroyer
DN Aries - Nebula Class APAR Destroyer
DN Trieste - Astron Class FAS
DN Tolstoy - Astron Class FAS
DN Hideki - Astron Class FAS
DN Lalo - Astron Class FAS
DN Fearless - Defiance Class Light Frigate
DN Archangel - Defiance Class Light Frigate
DN Erewon - Defiance Class Light Frigate
DN Midgard - Spearhead Class HSV
DN Excelsior - Spearhead Class HSV
DN Farragut - Spearhead Class HSV
DN Tempest - Spearhead Class HSV
DN Austal - Spearhead Class HSV
DN Seminole - Spearhead Class HSV
DN Shadow - Spearhead Class HSV
DN Maddox - Spearhead Class HSV

The Spearheads are carrying military security personnel.

:arrow: :!: :arrow:

I have issue with the design of this ship. First off, the size. This ship is fully three times as long and four times as wide as a Nimitz class aircraft carrier, and displaces 10 times as much water. This ship would not be able to get anywhere near to a coastline due to how much underwater clearance it would need, let alone be able to dock anywhere.

Also, 20 30-inch guns, and 12 8-inch guns aside from other ordinance? I think not. A 900 foot long, 109 foot wide Iowa class battleship carries 9 16-inch guns and 12 5-inch guns. Now, let's proportionally expand the number of guns out to your ship's size; theoretically, your ship could carry 32 times as many guns the same size. However, studies have shown that for every 1 inch increase in barrel diamater, the amount of guns a ship is capable of holding is reduced by 25%. You would theoretically be able to carry 288 16-inch guns and 384 8-inch guns. Now, let's reduce that based on what I state before. You would be able to hold 5 30-inch guns and 162 8-inch guns. However, electro-thermal guns at this time are MUCH larger than your standard guns, meaning you'd be able to hold maybe 50-75% of that. On top of that, you wouldn't be able to even fit that many once you add in all the other weapons systems you want and the two flight decks.

Finally, how do you propose getting this thing to start moving, then once it is moving, stop it? A little thing called inertia my friends. It would take an INCREDIBLE amount of power to get it moving, and then once it was, it would take miles for it to slow down.

Summary: Please make your ship more physically possible.

The ship is physically possible, I take maritime design at university and there are several small flaws in your arguement.

Firstly, no, it cant get near a standard coastline. And why would it have to? Offshore maintenance and refuelling are, with dedicated facilities, pretty much possible. this is a program not just for the warship itself, but all necessary support facilities.

Secondly, an Iowa isnt maxed out on armament. It could, with ease, carry many more primary and secondary mounts. As a trimiran, with vastly improved deckspace, there are no issues with finding sufficent deckspace on the primary hull with the two flightdecks based on the auxiallary hulls.

The secondary 8" are also being placed in side mounts as opposed to super-imposed mounts on the ship's superstructure. This in turn also reduces the strain on deck space. The large increase in draft and width sorts out any storage issues for ammunition and machinery.

How to get it moving? Well, how does a half million ton supertanker get moving? Inertia is a large force but in water with much less frictiona gainst horizontal movement then the huge water turbines this vessel carries will get it underway. It is not going to accelerate or deaccelerate quickly. Indeed, it will take a couple of days travel to simply hit top speed.

No it doesnt stop quickly, it will be for other vessels to react. This ship's deployments, Im sure, be carefully planned by doujin in order to garauntee precisely how much manoeuvering room will be required.

"AHA", you say "but what about having to fight, and turn?"

Why would it? It's armour belts and weaponry will outgun anything else on the water. This is a naval combatant designed for the NS universe, not RL. It is designed to simply destroy everything else on the water.

Any more issues? Or can I get back to designing this thing for Doujin?

:roll:

My main shipyard/port has a 240 draft clearance, it can dock there.. :roll:

Secondly, an Iowa isnt maxed out on armament. It could, with ease, carry many more primary and secondary mounts. As a trimiran, with vastly improved deckspace, there are no issues with finding sufficent deckspace on the primary hull with the two flightdecks based on the auxiallary hulls.



Fine then. For our purposes, let's say that the Iowa carries 2 more guns, both 16 inch and 5 inch. Go through everything I mentioned, and you're still only capable of carrying 6 normal 30-inchers 189 normal 8-inchers. You'd be able to carry even less if they're ETC. Now, let's say you converted the 8 incher space to space for the 30 inchers. Working backwards from 25% decrease for every inch increase, you can fit 1 more 30 incher for every 23 8-inchers you take out. If you take out every 8-incher but the 12 you left, you have room for 7 more 30-inchers. Combine this with the 6 you could already fit, you could hold 13 30-inchers. And remember, that's 13 normal 30-inchers, not 13 ETC 30s.

And your argument of being a trimaran with more deck space doesn't work, I found the approximate area of each deck using the listed width of the ships. Hell, that even means it has more deck space than it should in my calculations, because the outer hulls of trimarans don't extend for the entire ship, only 1/2-2/3 of it. So no loophole there.

Another thing with size, while minor offshore maintenance and resupplying is indeed possible (through impractical, especially having sailors wishing to go on shore leave take ferries\other boats to shore), there is no way this ship could undergo the major renovations and repairs most ships require at some point that require a dry dock. This would definitely be a problem if the ship was severely damaged and in danger of sinking.

Also, I donno if anyone mentioned it before, but has it even been considered whether or not Doujin could afford this? The cost for a ship like this would be astronomical, and the yearly upkeep costs would probably be as much if not more than most entire fleets.

Funny, I have over 650 billion a year in military budget.. I think I can afford it :roll: Not to mention my storefront.

First, don't you think 650 billion is a little high? Going by the budget the NS calc gives you, that's more than 15% of national budget. 10% is getting pretty high; higher than 15% and your nation starts to collapse, realistically speaking.

Second, most of your military budget is taken up by salaries and such. The upkeep costs of that one ship would take up a hefty portion of what's left.

As the High Chancellor of Unum Veritas was reading over various intelligence reports in his office he came across one detailing an absolutely enormous naval vessel to be constructed by the nation of Doujin. As he read the stats his one thought was,

The bigger the vessel...the larger the target...the easier the hit...the bigger the explosion...hmmm, I like explosions.

First, don't you think 650 billion is a little high? Going by the budget the NS calc gives you, that's more than 15% of national budget. 10% is getting pretty high; higher than 15% and your nation starts to collapse, realistically speaking.

Second, most of your military budget is taken up by salaries and such. The upkeep costs of that one ship would take up a hefty portion of what's left.

As the High Chancellor of Unum Veritas was reading over various intelligence reports in his office he came across one detailing an absolutely enormous naval vessel to be constructed by the nation of Doujin. As he read the stats his one thought was,

The bigger the vessel...the larger the target...the easier the hit...the bigger the explosion...hmmm, I like explosions.

If these go out on international makets I would be interested in purchasing some.

$650 billion for a militiristic culture with a powerful economy isnt too unrealistic, especially as he is twice the size of the US which has a $400 billion budget.

No, he wouldnt be able to afford this thing outright. But this project is going to take 20-25 years to complete, thats not one budget he is working off.

As for affording it, well, it requires the same funding as a US battlegroup. (slightly less in salaries and consumables, but more in fuel costs), for considerably more capability. She may attract more fire, but she is practically invulnerable to modern conventional warheads. Destroying her would require taking a conflict to nuclear level, andvery few nations would be willing to do that.

As for docking. The ship will get damaged but it is very hard to sink. Massive depth, thick armour panelling means you are not going to sink this with a Harpoon. Most likely if she does sustain enough damage to actually be sunk, then she will literally beach herself before becoming suffiecently submerged. If so, then offshore repair would take place like any other ship.

She is being built in a drydock especially strengthened for large ship construction. Her launch will basically see her floating into a deep cut ravine into the ocean. She can make the return journey if necessary.

It's exactly 15%.

Okay. Realisim check:

Attempts to attack surface ships with high-altitude bombing have always been a failure.

But.

With THIS ship- if somebody had good enough ECM cover, and say, a fighter attack to distract the air defense systems on this ship, could you fly over with a flight of B-52's and just carpet-bomb the sucker?

Assuming she was alone, AND that her fighters weren't on the B-52s AND the type of bombs you use. The Yamato was hit with 10 500 lb bombs, 12 torpedos and god knows what else before she sunk.

As for affording it, well, it requires the same funding as a US battlegroup. (slightly less in salaries and consumables, but more in fuel costs), for considerably more capability. She may attract more fire, but she is practically invulnerable to modern conventional warheads. Destroying her would require taking a conflict to nuclear level, andvery few nations would be willing to do that.

Maybe yes as with most well-armored battleships, but given its air defence capabilities and point-defence capabilities, it /will/ attract those huge supersonic missiles with high flammable fuel and 2000lb warheads from faraway SSGNs (guided missile submarine -- like those Soviet ones such as Papa, Echo, Charlie, and Oscar carrying heavy ASMs such as the SS-N-19 Granit/Shipwreck) aside from maybe a massive torpedo attack from a few attack submarines. Maybe not sink as that kind of massive thing certainly can't be sank with little efforts, but heavily damaged or even crippled doesn't mean that they can continue their mission either, as long as the missiles hit the right place and as long as the tactics were correct.

As for docking. The ship will get damaged but it is very hard to sink. Massive depth, thick armour panelling means you are not going to sink this with a Harpoon.

I thought you mentioned that it has a somehow thin armor?

7. I'm curious as to just how much armor this thing has

Surprisingly limited. Light titanium composite over foot thick plate steel. However, the sheer depth of the ship, as well as its auxiallary hulls, vastly improve its survivability.

With what?

JDAMS and GP Bombs are the two options for a sufficient number to conduct a bomb run from high altitude (assuming you dont want to be ripped apart by close range weapons), assuming good accuracy, assuming a lot of luck to get a correct angle of approach....assuming everything...absolutelye verything was in your favour.

The deck armour would be mangled, probably a deck levelled on the surface of the ship.

The operations room and the engines, five armoured decks down would still be intact. The extra armour on the gun turrets would see them simply rattled (unless you were ridiculously lucky and scored two hits on precisely the same spot, basically not going to happen in arushed air raid.

And the conditions you said for this.

1) A fighter attack may distract computer systems. Human operators would quite easily override this. Proffesionalism and training eliminate a lot of stupidity.

2) An ECM unit powerful enough to overcome the enourmous setup on the Doujin would require a ship sized unit to carry it, and it would need to get cose too. We can imagine what would happen here.

3) And dont give me grief about armour thickness. She has heavier deck armour than the Iowa because she is built fifty years after the Iowa with lessons learnt in warfare taken into account.

Even on such a large ship it is very difficult to provide pinpoint bombing. A bomb crew simply would not have enough time to do more than lay a single stick of bombs and hope for the best.

As for affording it, well, it requires the same funding as a US battlegroup. (slightly less in salaries and consumables, but more in fuel costs), for considerably more capability. She may attract more fire, but she is practically invulnerable to modern conventional warheads. Destroying her would require taking a conflict to nuclear level, andvery few nations would be willing to do that.

As for docking. The ship will get damaged but it is very hard to sink. Massive depth, thick armour panelling means you are not going to sink this with a Harpoon. Most likely if she does sustain enough damage to actually be sunk, then she will literally beach herself before becoming suffiecently submerged. If so, then offshore repair would take place like any other ship.

You don't have to sink the ship to severely limit its effectiveness. A single cluster munition to each of its runways would be devastating to its firepower and power projection abilities. If you could disable its runways, damage its radar/sonar, or damage its maneuvering mechanisms then the ship wouldn't be much use, would it? People always seem to forget that you don't have to sink the ship to win the battle...you just have to render it useless and there is more than one way of doing this. Psychological warfare against the ship's crew, destruction of its offensive capabilities, and keeping it away from any valuable target are all perfectly fine tactics for rendering this overlarge, overpriced vessel useless. Also, if this ship is as dangerous as you all seem to think, then most nations, including my own, would have little trouble using a tactical nuke on it.

Well, 12 inches of plate steel panelled over with titanium is relatively thin for a battleship. But compared to a modern combatant (on many of which I have sailed, okay, on two of which I have sailed), this is thick enough.

As for affording it, well, it requires the same funding as a US battlegroup. (slightly less in salaries and consumables, but more in fuel costs), for considerably more capability. She may attract more fire, but she is practically invulnerable to modern conventional warheads. Destroying her would require taking a conflict to nuclear level, andvery few nations would be willing to do that.

As for docking. The ship will get damaged but it is very hard to sink. Massive depth, thick armour panelling means you are not going to sink this with a Harpoon. Most likely if she does sustain enough damage to actually be sunk, then she will literally beach herself before becoming suffiecently submerged. If so, then offshore repair would take place like any other ship.

You don't have to sink the ship to severely limit its effectiveness. A single cluster munition to each of its runways would be devastating to its firepower and power projection abilities. If you could disable its runways, damage its radar/sonar, or damage its maneuvering mechanisms then the ship wouldn't be much use, would it? People always seem to forget that you don't have to sink the ship to win the battle...you just have to render it useless and there is more than one way of doing this. Psychological warfare against the ship's crew, destruction of its offensive capabilities, and keeping it away from any valuable target are all perfectly fine tactics for rendering this overlarge, overpriced vessel useless. Also, if this ship is as dangerous as you all seem to think, then most nations, including my own, would have little trouble using a tactical nuke on it.

I was under the impression that modern hypersonic missiles were unguided -.-

Yes...you could disable its runways, it willstill have escort carriers, you somehow disable all its VLS's and its five turrets, and its secondary guns, then it still provides command and control protection. you destroy its sensors it simply links with the rest of the fleet and uses them.

And whilst you somehow do all this, your entire air force and navy is drawn out and slaughtered by the ship and its numerous escorts. So goes the plan.

And what 2000lb warheads would those be? Most people here use American weapons. This limits you to Harpoon, which cant penetrate this armour thickness, and the Tomahawk, which is slow enough to be engaged by CIWS. Assuming they developed their own original weapons, then what? The weapon detonates on the outer the outerhull, the blast goes through secondary space, then is stopped by an internal bulkhead.

So, with conventional weapons you simply hole the main armour, with little internal damage. Modern warships are damaged because their thin armour allows the missiles to simply puncture through rather than detonating on the exterior.

And you would be willing to nuke it?

Fair enough. Then the conflict goes nuclear, and you will be responsible for that.

The reality is these ships are built for the NS universe, they are surface combatants not designed for RL, but for the peculiar state of affairs that exists within this simulated world.

Expensive, Concentrated. Cant get near a coastline. Big target.

Yep, yes, uh huh and absolutely.

Question is, aside from those big, lovely missiles with the nuclear symbol on them, what are you going to send against them that wont result in the horrible loss of thousands of your own men?

Question is, aside from those big, lovely missiles with the nuclear symbol on them, what are you going to send against them that wont result in the horrible loss of thousands of your own men?

A single GM Joint Carrier Battle Fleet would do. Or a Theron battle group from Federation of the Eternal Flame. Either one would handle it easily.

Theron

Surface
7-Arsenal Ship
20-1989 Mod Iowa Battle Ships
3-FEF Montana-Class Battle Ships
4-Nimitz Class Carriers
8-GM Iowa Battle Ships
40-Ticondaroga Class Cruisers
40-Flight I Arleigh Burke class Destroyers
40-Flight IIA Arleigh Burke class Destroyers
24-Mako Class Frigates
8-Reiko Hidama Class LHD (Designated Carriers)
6-Wasp Class LHD
8-Hovercraft Deep Sea Transports
12 - EM-100 Piranha fast Attack Missile boats (PCFG) with SS-N-22 2x2
92-EM-100 Piranha fast Attack Missile boats (PCFG) with Yakhont-3
50-EM-120/1 Barracuda Corvette/Light Frigate
2-Command Ship
2-Hospital Ship
42-LCACs

Submarine
6-Ohio Class SSBN with Cruise Missile Modification
4-Ohio Class SSBN with Cruise Missile Modification and 4x Manta Subs
8-Seawolf Class attack sub
10-Seawolf Class attack sub with 2x Manta Subs
2-Special Operations sub(Seahorse Class)

Air
220-SH-60 LAMPS Mk. III Seahawk
16 - E2-C Hawkeye
8 - AC-150 Tanker
152 - F-22 Sea Raptor
28 - F/A-18G
40 - CH-53E Sea Stallion
140 - KH-12 Hermes
80 - F-35C
356- F-35B
50 - UH-1N "4BN"
64 - AH-1Z Cobra

This group was recently called back to FEF into dock to have several smaller carriers and other ships added.

Assuming, again, it's alone..

Assuming, again, it's alone..

No, a JCBF or two, or Theron alone, would handle it and its battle group nicely.

It, you are again assuming the ship is alone and not escorted by her own Battlegroup.

Edited. Happy now? Lol.

Now, now I doubt that GM :)

The deal with Theron is that it has many Yakhont-3 launchers on it. If the Doujin and her battle group got within 300 KM of Theron it would start getting hammered by wave after wave of these Soviet beauties.

All I will say is that is HUGE ship. Over 1 MILLION tons!!! Does it have neutronium armour, even though neutronium has already been tested, and fails badly when it comes to water.

Now, now I doubt that GM :)

Go back a page, look at Theron. :) A JCBF is slightly smaller; in fact, Theron was designed to take out a JCBF. Thank you, FEF\GM war games.

Formidable, however I am not so certain that Theron group would win :P The battlegroup of the Doujin Class is still being put together :P

Here is a plausible way I've thought up for the Kilean navy to take down a doujin-class.

1) many long-range missile strikes from strategic bombers and surface battlegroups. Saturate the defense systems with SS-N-19 missiles from long range.

2) repeat.

3) repeat again (continue as needed)

4) use the superior speed/ tactical manuverability of our own surface fleet to fight hit-and-run actions, destroying the battlegroup and further damaging the upper works of the Doujin.

5) Lure it into a coastal area. This may just happen, beacuse the Doujin class's guns (while sea engagements can take place beyond their range) seem to be there for hammering coastal targets. Downside: you are required to use a city as bait.

6) Hit the doujin with a massive, convergent air attack from multipule angles. Attrit the air wing, and swarm the Doujin with hundreds of missiles. At this point the superstructure/carrier deck should be pretty messed up, although the turrets, engines, etc should be alright.

7) at the same time as the massive air attack, submarines should also mount their own mass attack on the Doujin. The large size and limited manuverability of the massive ship (plus the huge acousitc signature, if only from flow noise) should make actually setting the attack up rather easily. Attack from the stern, in the hopes of hitting propulsion/rudder systems.

8)At this point the sensor systems should be seriously degraded, as well as the ability of the Doujin to steer. This is when the opposing surface fleet should close for a final battle. In Kilean's case, "Sunburn" ASM's (mach 3 speed) fired from relatively close range. If you have any old battleships in service, now would be the time to use them. You'll probably lose most of your own surface fleet, but hey, you should see the other guy.

9) scrape together what's left of the air forces that attacked the Doujin to begin with. If there are any fast attack missile boats, get them together as well. Make constant harassing attacks on what is probably now the very battered Doujin. Disrupt damage control efforts, make them expend what must be, by now, rather scarse SAM's/Antiship missiles/shells.

10) Once the Doujin's weapons have been for the most part destroyed, fly heavy strategic bomber sorties round-the-clock against the drifting hulk. "Bunker buster" earth-penetrating munitions may come in handy. Much like an old-style sea battle with tall ships, you can't expect to really sink this ship- just bash it down to the waterline.

That Theron listing is outdated. I just don't feel like updating it right now. That and the Flama-Class isn't finished yet

It's good being a future-tech nation. Moontian's plan for destroying a Doujin class would read thus:

1) Find the battleship with the SBR array.

2) Send the data to the SBL array.

3) Zap the ship from orbit, targeting the engines and defensive weapons.

4) Once the defensive weapons have been destroyed, send in Poltergeist bombers and Skyrider fighters to attack from every direction; as well as the nearest fleet.

5) If the ship isn't dead yet, send in falcon hoverskids from the nearest carrier, to aim at or near the waterline to finish it off.

It's beautiful how everyone is already plotting how they could possibly destroy it. Lol.

It's a hell of a lot better than planning just how our fleets will sink after it crushes anything else afloat.

I mean, what else are we supposed to do?

It's beautiful how everyone is already plotting how they could possibly destroy it. Lol. Heh yea, no joke, just like back when I helped some guys make 'THEIR' Super battleship (I think we actually started the most Recent Trend, as Everyone seems to be making them these days)

Check out page 4
http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=122653&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=60

How might I go about ordering some of Doujin's creations?

Yes...you could disable its runways, it willstill have escort carriers, you somehow disable all its VLS's and its five turrets, and its secondary guns, then it still provides command and control protection. you destroy its sensors it simply links with the rest of the fleet and uses them.

And whilst you somehow do all this, your entire air force and navy is drawn out and slaughtered by the ship and its numerous escorts. So goes the plan.

And what 2000lb warheads would those be? Most people here use American weapons. This limits you to Harpoon, which cant penetrate this armour thickness, and the Tomahawk, which is slow enough to be engaged by CIWS. Assuming they developed their own original weapons, then what? The weapon detonates on the outer the outerhull, the blast goes through secondary space, then is stopped by an internal bulkhead.

So, with conventional weapons you simply hole the main armour, with little internal damage. Modern warships are damaged because their thin armour allows the missiles to simply puncture through rather than detonating on the exterior.

And you would be willing to nuke it?

Fair enough. Then the conflict goes nuclear, and you will be responsible for that.

The reality is these ships are built for the NS universe, they are surface combatants not designed for RL, but for the peculiar state of affairs that exists within this simulated world.

Expensive, Concentrated. Cant get near a coastline. Big target.

Yep, yes, uh huh and absolutely.

Question is, aside from those big, lovely missiles with the nuclear symbol on them, what are you going to send against them that wont result in the horrible loss of thousands of your own men?
Missiles with 1000 kg warheads can penetrate the hull (which, I must note, has less protection than an Iowa class battleship). These are Soviet weapons, which are supersonic (usually Mach 2+, some over Mach 4) missiles with penetrating warheads. If they hit, they'll still do significant damage. It's doubtful that they'll sink the ship on their own, but they'll cause some serious hurt.

Some things that would work quite well:
1) Concentrated torpedo attack: a large number of torpedoes impacting at almost the same point will sink anything. This ship is no exception. I don't know the torpedo protection on this thing, but a few Shkvals would do quite a bit. The trick here is hitting the same point with each one. Thankfully, this isn't exactly an agile ship.
2) Hypersonic missiles: high kinetic energy will allow for excellent penetration. A properly designed one could detonate deep inside the ship.

There are a few other quite nasty things I can think of, but I'll be saving those for myself. Just in case :wink:

LOL...and to quote Max Barry's greta masterpiece itself...


"And Yet..."


Every single plan here involves taking most of your navy and air force and assuming you can knock off the battlegroup with relative ease.

Thats not going to happen.

Great Mateo, your fleet would be useless. So what have you got? Battleships. Fine, some modification, some ranged guns. The Doujin would break these in half.

Your Tricondega and Arleigh Burke class ships carry Tomahawk and Harpoon. A Tomahawk, as sophisticated as it is, is simply too slow to use against a Doujin's and its escorts anti-missile capability. A Harpoon bounces off the battleplate, and getting close enough to use it will bring you within range of the Doujin's guns.

Your Arsenal ships would suffer similar problems. Weapon choices would be limited. Aside form the missile boats, what have you got thats ranged and even has a remote chance of hitting the Doujin, let alone penetrating its armour.

I'm afraid everyone's battlegroup will have a limited choice, either engage the escorts and fall prey to the Doujin, or attack the Doujin and pray they can knock it out before the Escorts finish them off. Unless you have an overwhelming number of warships, fighters, and submarines, you will suffer devastating amounts of damage. It would basically be death to most of your attacking force.

And may I remind anyone who uses Soviet missiles just how unreliable and vulnerable they are to electronic warfare measures.

They can be sunk. Kilean, your plan would probably work, but would result in the loss of most of your navy and airforce. Then what? When the the rest of the Doujin fleet appears on the horizon, and you have nothing left to fight with, then what?

LOL...and to quote Max Barry's greta masterpiece itself...


"And Yet..."


Every single plan here involves taking most of your navy and air force and assuming you can knock off the battlegroup with relative ease.

Thats not going to happen.

Great Mateo, your fleet would be useless. So what have you got? Battleships. Fine, some modification, some ranged guns. The Doujin would break these in half.

Your Tricondega and Arleigh Burke class ships carry Tomahawk and Harpoon. A Tomahawk, as sophisticated as it is, is simply too slow to use against a Doujin's and its escorts anti-missile capability. A Harpoon bounces off the battleplate, and getting close enough to use it will bring you within range of the Doujin's guns.

Your Arsenal ships would suffer similar problems. Weapon choices would be limited. Aside form the missile boats, what have you got thats ranged and even has a remote chance of hitting the Doujin, let alone penetrating its armour.

I'm afraid everyone's battlegroup will have a limited choice, either engage the escorts and fall prey to the Doujin, or attack the Doujin and pray they can knock it out before the Escorts finish them off. Unless you have an overwhelming number of warships, fighters, and submarines, you will suffer devastating amounts of damage. It would basically be death to most of your attacking force.

And may I remind anyone who uses Soviet missiles just how unreliable and vulnerable they are to electronic warfare measures.

They can be sunk. Kilean, your plan would probably work, but would result in the loss of most of your navy and airforce. Then what? When the the rest of the Doujin fleet appears on the horizon, and you have nothing left to fight with, then what?

Let's see. First off, a Theron group wouldn't represent the majority of MY navy, let alone the majority of FEF's navy, which is considerably larger than mine. I could piece together several of those groups; however, more than one wouldn't be necessary. More ships could be dedicated if necessary, and it still wouldn't be the majority of either of our navies. With Doujin's nation size, however, an enormous and powerful battle group to go with the Doujin class WOULD constitute most of his navy.

Secondly, the size of a Theron group alone makes it formiddable against anything you would piece together. The sheer amount of ships and firepower those ships can bring to bear (several hundred 16+" guns, several thousand VLS tubes and Yakhont launchers, to start with) would enable it to engage the escorts and Doujin at the same time.

And despite what you think about your anti-missile capabilities, they would have quite a problem with Yakhonts. If you're not familiar with them, they're Mach 2+ anti-ship missiles that have stealth characteristics. Add to that, they're designed to puncture hulls much thicker than what you have before detonating. I would also like to remind you that anti-missile systems have a far less than 100% sucess rate.

Also, regarding weaponry; while the guns on the Doujin are indeed huge and powerful, they would also have an incredibly low rate of fire. In the time it takes you to reload and fire a new salvo of 30" shells, you're looking at several thousand 5-16+" shells impacting on Doujin and its escorts.

Fifthly (is that a word? o_O), you're acting like Doujin's armor would be invulnerable to attack. From what I've read, it would have less than half of what most NS battleships have. Even if you "strengthen" that armor, which most people have already done to their own battleships, you're still looking at as much damage, if not more, done per round impacted as compared to standard battleships.

And GM battleships would not be as easy to sink as you think. I've been using a self-designed battleship of my own, a trimaran, for quite some time. Trimaran ships are exponentially harder to sink that single hulled ships due to the added buoyancy of the outer hulls. Your 30 inch shell could rip a massive hole in it and it would still be combat ready.

So basically, yea. Theron group (35 battleships, 7 arsenal ships, 40 cruisers, 80 destroyers, 28 submarines, 26 GM Manta class fast attack minisubs, 4 aircraft carriers, 8 battlecarriers, 24 frigates, approx. 150 missile boats, and over 1200 aircraft) would deal with that.

Im assuming you dont realise this is a trimiran.


Draft, because of the huge amount of displaced water, will only be 30 metres...if you have done the bouyancy calculations then I would love to see them. Im not saying you're wrong but I would like to check mine roughly. I will place the burden of proof on you :)




I am fully aware this is a trimaran. First of all, do you actually know what draft is? Displacing a lot of water does not mean it will go down, it means it will go up. Do you want to know how to calculate draft? A ton of displacement displaces 1 ton of water which is equal to roughly 1 cubic metre.
Now assuming the ship to be a big boxy diamond shape, which works out to be a fairly good aproximation, it does however tend to produce a minimally lower draft value than realistic, however for our purposes it will suffice, I don't really want to go into calculus... from this you can work out how many tons of weight the ship will support for each metre of draft
= 1m x 981m x 1/2(350m)
= 17,1675 cubic metres or 17,1675 tons of displacement per metre of draught.

Now you divide the total weight of the ship by the displacement per metre
= 1,300,000 tons / 17,1675 tons per metre
= 75.724479394204164846366681229067
= 75.72 metres.

Now the outriggers are going to decrease the draft a little, but that effect will be negligeable when taking into account the vast size of the vessel.

Have you also considered that adding outriggers to a vessel like this will actually decrease the speed? The loss in draft will be negated by the overall increase in drag created by the fitting of such devices. There is actually a reason most large ships are single hulled.

And as for your comment on a big ship can have a big sonar array...you do realise active sonar with that range will burn out the sonar detectors if you pick anything up close? You see, you'd need highly sensitive detection equipment to pick up objects at that kind of range, at the same times, detectors of that level tend to not like really loud noises. There are already systems in the real world that work off that principle to destroy active sonar arrays by magnifying the recieved signal.

I also made an error ealier about the armour you need to put on the deck to protect from the blast wave of a 16" shell. I have since done more research into this. You need just under 1 foot of armour around the turret. What is more, a gun of twice the size will produce a blast wave of 4 times the magnitude. This means that near the gun you will need to have at least 3.5 feet of armour to prevent the guns from doing damage to the hull.

Seeing as I take maritime design, then yes, I do know what draft is.

1 ton is supported by 1 cubic metre of water, agreed (although you may want to variate this level of bouyancy of various levels of sodium-based molecules and other particles in the water.)

So.

981 m (agreed length of ship) x 1/2(350) (registered width with hull factored in x 30 m (registered draft) =

so

981 x 175 x 30 = 5150250 tons of displaced water

like you said, a lower draft is produced, but we have some to work with, so, lets say we have 3,000,000 tons of displaced water, we factor in some more streamlining, safety margins, and the area cleared for the water jets, and hey presto we arrive at 1,300,000 tons, in fact, I could get away with doubling the armour thickness around the turrets!:D :o


hmmmm

I wonder if....

"17,1675 cubic metres or 17,1675 tons of displacement per metre of draught."

I wonder if that apostrophe is in the right place.....

maybe....

lets see

981 x 1/2(350) x 1

981 x 175 = 171,165 m3 of water displaced with every meter....

hmmmm

Edit: sodium, not sulphate, god I must have had a brain freeze.

Well my maths is off by a little as was the comma, but that is purely aesthetics. The new figure increase the draft though.

What new figure?

And there is a *slight* difference, about tenfold, in the displaced draft per metre.

Let's see. First off, a Theron group wouldn't represent the majority of MY navy, let alone the majority of FEF's navy, which is considerably larger than mine. I could piece together several of those groups; however, more than one wouldn't be necessary. More ships could be dedicated if necessary, and it still wouldn't be the majority of either of our navies. With Doujin's nation size, however, an enormous and powerful battle group to go with the Doujin class WOULD constitute most of his navy.

And while you're dragging in allies, you've got to worry about me, and then if you really piss me off you've got to worry about the other 800lb guerillas that are my allies. Trust me, this is a slippery slope you don't want to go down.

Secondly, the size of a Theron group alone makes it formiddable against anything you would piece together. The sheer amount of ships and firepower those ships can bring to bear (several hundred 16+" guns, several thousand VLS tubes and Yakhont launchers, to start with) would enable it to engage the escorts and Doujin at the same time.

No battleship can take what it can dish out, but the Doujin would laugh off anything short of 22" ETCs. You go ahead send all those shells, if all you've got is 16" guns then you're fucked.

And despite what you think about your anti-missile capabilities, they would have quite a problem with Yakhonts. If you're not familiar with them, they're Mach 2+ anti-ship missiles that have stealth characteristics. Add to that, they're designed to puncture hulls much thicker than what you have before detonating. I would also like to remind you that anti-missile systems have a far less than 100% sucess rate.

You know the wonderful thing about creating things for NS? Nobody usually knows what the hell they're going up against. An APAR-12 3D air/surface phased array radar is powerful enough to get halfway decent detection on a B-2, a -12b could output enough energy down a pencil beam that it would destroy any missile it could see. The same goes for an AEGIS, so don't bother arguing about it.

Also, regarding weaponry; while the guns on the Doujin are indeed huge and powerful, they would also have an incredibly low rate of fire. In the time it takes you to reload and fire a new salvo of 30" shells, you're looking at several thousand 5-16+" shells impacting on Doujin and its escorts.

Both points have been covered, but I'll make them again. Rotary magazines allow for a drastically reduced reload time, roughly that of an Iowa. As for those shells, you're assuming anything besides a missile boat with long range missile could get near the Doujin. A single 30" ETC shell would ruin anything else's day, and probably another Doujin.

Fifthly (is that a word? o_O), you're acting like Doujin's armor would be invulnerable to attack. From what I've read, it would have less than half of what most NS battleships have. Even if you "strengthen" that armor, which most people have already done to their own battleships, you're still looking at as much damage, if not more, done per round impacted as compared to standard battleships.

That's one meter of composite armour two generations down the line and DU sandwiched in layers, there isn't very much that'll get through that. I'd also like you to point me to any battleship that isn't the size of a friggen DN or SD (like the Leviathan or Doujin) that has one meter of any kind of armour.

And GM battleships would not be as easy to sink as you think. I've been using a self-designed battleship of my own, a trimaran, for quite some time. Trimaran ships are exponentially harder to sink that single hulled ships due to the added buoyancy of the outer hulls. Your 30 inch shell could rip a massive hole in it and it would still be combat ready.

If you knew anything at all about Doujin's designs, or have even been paying attention, you'd know that they're all trimarans or pentamarans. Oh, and a single normal 30" shell would screw over any ship, including the Doujin, but since Doujin uses ETCs... well, you get the point. Oh, and you know what I've totally been discounting? The ship has 160 aircraft, which is double what a Nimitz carries.

So basically, yea. Theron group (35 battleships, 7 arsenal ships, 40 cruisers, 80 destroyers, 28 submarines, 26 GM Manta class fast attack minisubs, 4 aircraft carriers, 8 battlecarriers, 24 frigates, approx. 150 missile boats, and over 1200 aircraft) would deal with that.

That isn't a battlegroup, that's several fleets. I'm counting 54 capships, which is twice as many carriers as I have and almost as many battleships. you've also have nearly half as many aircraft as I have in my entire navy. Hell, that's 400 ships, which is more than even one of my fleets and nearly two of them and you're telling me you can scrape more of them together? I'm assuming you only have a navy then? If not, you can stop critisizing Doujin's ship now, cause you've got your own shit to work on.

((OOC-Yeah yeah, I know. I'm a bit late))

NBC News, 20:00 Feazanthian Time
Commander Feaz C. Macleod addressed growing public concern over the Doujin 'super battleship' today in a press conference at Xylion Harbor.

"I know many of you are worried about this 'super battleship' that our friends, the Doujinshi Corporation, have produced. I know its specifics, and I am well aware what it could do to our fledgling navy. I also know what could happen should this technology fall into the wrong hands. Though I trust the Doujin Navy to protect such a valuable secret, I must also emphasize that, should it indeed fall into the hands of a rival power, we have nothing to fear. Our own Task Force Bravo is well equipped with enough long-range weaponry to deal with this ship before it can even get within range. I assure you, the age of the battleship is over."

Feazanthia, last time I checked (I kicked you out of the conference didn't i?) So you have no knowledge of the Doujin Class' specifics.. this is just a rumor, all this talk is OOC.. and as far as the naval conference thread.. that is ooc to anyone that is not in the conference.

Blast. Thanks, mate. Didn't realise it was OOC. I'll edit.

:arrow: :!: :arrow:

It looks a bit too big to be practical even in NS. But hey I have no expertise in naval design so what do I know?

Oh, you're right...basically its a big target :D

But its a target that can take more than anything else has to give.

Basically she is designed to simply survive. Any flagship will be attacked by the enemy, so why not be in one that can withstand repeated missile attacks?

Remember its all about supposed power projection. Its marketing, showing you precisely who controls the ocean, whether or not you actually do.

Plus its a big floating bllboard for Doujin :D

:!: :arrow: :!:

Oh, you're right...basically its a big target :D

But its a target that can take more than anything else has to give.

Basically she is designed to simply survive. Any flagship will be attacked by the enemy, so why not be in one that can withstand repeated missile attacks?

Remember its all about supposed power projection. Its marketing, showing you precisely who controls the ocean, whether or not you actually do.

Plus its a big floating bllboard for Doujin :D

^^ I like big expensive billboards :twisted:

That isn't a battlegroup, that's several fleets. I'm counting 54 capships, which is twice as many carriers as I have and almost as many battleships. you've also have nearly half as many aircraft as I have in my entire navy. Hell, that's 400 ships, which is more than even one of my fleets and nearly two of them and you're telling me you can scrape more of them together? I'm assuming you only have a navy then? If not, you can stop critisizing Doujin's ship now, cause you've got your own shit to work on.

....You're talking about a 1.1 billion population nation, and FEF is around 1.8 billion I believe. A Theron group represents about 1/6 of FEF's navy, and maybe 1/4-1/3 of mine. Then we have sizable armies and air forces on top of that. So no, I believe I'm quite in the right.

That isn't a battlegroup, that's several fleets. I'm counting 54 capships, which is twice as many carriers as I have and almost as many battleships. you've also have nearly half as many aircraft as I have in my entire navy. Hell, that's 400 ships, which is more than even one of my fleets and nearly two of them and you're telling me you can scrape more of them together? I'm assuming you only have a navy then? If not, you can stop critisizing Doujin's ship now, cause you've got your own shit to work on.

....You're talking about a 1.1 billion population nation, and FEF is around 1.8 billion I believe. A Theron group represents about 1/6 of FEF's navy, and maybe 1/4-1/3 of mine. Then we have sizable armies and air forces on top of that. So no, I believe I'm quite in the right.

The shipyards were having a day like any other. The whistle blew, and thousands of men filed across the gangways to get to work inside the massive hull of the doujin.

Massive cranes whined as the huge gun barrels were lifted into position, and the cavernous hull echoed with the sounds of welding and the shouts of foremen.

A crash louder than those normally heard in shipbuilding caused many of the workers to look to the source of the noise. About a kilometer away across the sprawling facility that was involved in building the Doujin, a pillar of smoke rose into the sky. Alarms could be heard in the distance.

Then another flash, and a massive explosion shook the shipyards. One of the cranes toppled, falling across the bow of the huge ship.

There was then another explosion.

And another.

And another.

And another.
_____________________________________________________________

The SM-01 riverbed missile is a converted space launch vehicle used as Kileans first ICBM. Made to carry satillites into orbit or crude, heavy nuclear warheads tens of thousands of miles away, these missiles have a significant "throw weight"- somewhere in the order of two and a half tons. In the early morning hours, some 50 of these missiles blast out of their silos in western Kilean. 30 minutes later, they scream out of low orbit over Doujin. Armed with a mixture of conventional high explosive and submunition warheads, these non-nuclear missiles are aimed at the as-yet-incomplete Doujin-class battleship, and the shipyard constructing it.

The SM-01 is an inaccurate missile, with a CEP of some 500 meters. However, given the size and nature of the target in question, this is assumed to be enough. Although there is no hope of destroying the Doujin, the combination of HE and cluster warheads should destroy secondary weapon emplacements, shred exposed electronic sytems, and destroy interior fittings and compartments not yet covered by armor.

30 of the missiles are aimed at the doujin herself. (it is accepted that the missiles are innacurate, so Kilean high command basically sees this as "aimed at the doujin and facilities adjacent to it".

A further 10 missiles are aimed at targets in the surrounding shipyard- assembly sites for secondary systems (radar, secondary weapon turrets, cranes and rail systems used to transport the larger components.)

6 of the missiles are aimed at the foundry that is involved in casting the main guns of the Doujin. Although the main guns may have already been fitted, the disruption of normal operations should mean spare barrels are hard to come by.

The final 4 missiles are targeted on the sprawling office complex of the shipyard that built the Doujin. It is hoped that by hitting the development offices, key personell can be killed and important documents and plans destroyed or disrupted.

The Doujin's will not be destroyed. Indeed, this is not the goal of the Kilean military- if they had wanted to destroy the Doujin, only a nuke could do it, and that option is politically impossible to carry out.

What Kilean hopes to do with this strike is to delay the construction of the Doujin-class battleship by several months at least. (and hopefully more)
_____________________________________________________________

<OOC: i'm not being a jerk and doing this for no reason- Doujin and I are at war in another thread.<OOC>

We are, Kilean? That's news to me.. so ok..

50 missiles.. ok lets see, the Doujin has battlegroup detachment around her already.. and not to mention Navarre Naval Shipyards anti-missile/anti-aircraft emplacements.. I will have to look at my map to accuratle find out how many got through. In the meantime, however, I will be contacting some fellow nations.. you can expect heavy retaliation.. Think fuel-air bombs/cruise missiles.. and lots of them... not to mention invasion by the GDI.

Kilean, you will regret you h... wait a second.. this is all OOC info, how would you know where the location of the Doujin is at? And wether or not we are truely building it? Considering the location where the Doujin is being built is a large covereda rea.. and that there are many of similar structures throughout the shipyard where it's being built.. yea, after you explain exactly how you know which one to hit, where the actual shipyard is, and that we are actualy building it.. then I will consider the attack :)

But, now, all Doujin military forces are on high alert, and are ordered to engage and destroy ANY and ALL aircraft, ships, and other targets that are Kilean.

OOC: Kilean...

YOU ARE ATTACKING THE PRINCIPLE NAVAL SHIPBUILDING FACALITY OF THE ENTIRE FREETHINKER NATION.

Just be aware that doing this will kill a LOT of my civilian personnel and I can garauntee that it will not be pleasent when we retaliate!

Edit: It would be perfectly acceptable to attack, and expect a few missiles to get through, but you must understand that this is a freethinker shipyard adjoinging civilian industrial areas and also freethinke rmilitary facilities.

Just be warned if you do decide to do this, then we will come out in force on Doujin's side, we are still small but we do possess a potent surface fleet as well some other, more clandestine, surprises.

Be forewarned.

That said...seeing as the Doujin is being built in the only yard big enough, you could probably guess where it was being built. And technically I suppose in order to attack you would simply believe the news report.

Just be careful.

IC:

Interior: Dry Dock no.2, Navarre Naval Shipyard.

Nathaniel Clark sat on the bow, his welding torch in front of him snaking a thin wedge of heated steel between one of the mount for the CIWS and the thick plating of the hull itself. It was dark. The massive lights beneath the huge overhead gantries that supported the protective awning were adjusted to reflect outside conditions. Something to do with their health, workers were told.

Now they were dim, and as Clark finished off the last of his task, he looked at his watch and smiled. He tidied up the hose and nozzle, and put his mask and protective clothing back in the compartment in the large soldering set that stood next to him. There werent many workers left now, it was getting quite late, and many had left already. Clark, however, had just moved house, and he needed as much overtime as he could get to make sure he was able to pay off the first few mortgage payments.

Then he heard a thud, dull, and he wondered if a crane hoist had snapped. Then there was another one, a bit louder. Then the klaxon went, and Clark realised something was very wrong. He ran down, across the gangway and onto the side of the drydock, when there was a massive crashing noise above him. In slow motion, he saw part of the roof splinter, crack, annhilate itself in scarlet fury, and then....

A huge girder came crashing down, ripped from the wall by the blast. Hunreds of tons of metal crashed onto the armoured deck of the Doujin, which groaned but looked unhurt, the plain thin steel buckling on impact, wrapping itself around the metal outline of the massive warship. The sound though was terrifying, metal grinding on metal, combined with more explosions and several screams now permeating the air.

Clark took a few brief gulps of air, before heading for the door. He ran through the tool and uniform shed, and ran outside. He stopped in his tracks. His jaw dropped, flames danced in his eyes.

There was carnage. The huge covered drydock had been punctured about six or seven times, though he couldnt tell how much damage was done. The foundry across from him had escaped. A crater had formed in the carpark next to it, turning several vehicles into scrap whilst ramming others into the brick building. All the windows had been blown out. sirens were beginning to fll the air as ambulances and fire engines began to arrive.

The administrative offices had taken a direct hit, two in fact. One end of a building had collapsed entirely. Inside overturned desks and chairs could be seen, and tons of paperwork was strewn across a wide area. Another warhead had hit another building's roof, caving it in in its entirity and had set the building ablaze. The water out in the bay was also frothy and muddy, indicating several underwater detonations, and the Navarre Naval Base across the water had several smoke plumes over it.

Clark sighed. A medic rushed over to him. Quickly checked over, Clark volunteered to help start stretchering the injured....

OOC:

Some damage was caused. The foundry escaped unscathed, but the Doujin's berth was damaged slightly, but her armour was complete enugh to deal with falling steelwork. The admin was hit, as were several other, smaller drydocks. The Navarre Naval Base was hit, destroying several feul depots, and damaging the BBN Warrior, and a civilian factory near the shipyards was also badly damaged.



Casaulties: 53 Dead (Civilian), 198 Injured (160 Civilian, 38 Military)

OOC- *chuckles to self as everyone debates on the "best" way to take this ship out* Why have all of the plans been simple "use missiles" "use torpedoes" "use any other standard munition"? Good lord, RP is supposed to be about creativity. Fluffywuffy has a weapon that in one shot would crush this ship and its entire protective group (not going into details here, but most of you probably know what I'm talking about). Why not use sabotage to damage the ship? Or trickery to get in close and then take it out? Why not place a cement sub in its path and, when the Doujin is just above, blast it to hell and back? Doujin, I'm not trying to tell people how to take out your pretty new ship, I'm merely pointing out how boring everyone has gotten in NS, and besides, these suggestions are pointing out weaknesses, some of which you will be able to fix now that they've been brought to your attention. Why not try to develop your own tactics rather than use the same ones every freakin time? Why not place all of your ships in the mouth of its main port and prevent it from being resupplied? Why not use mines or sink a ship in its path so that it hits it and damages its rudders? Use psychological warfare against its crew by attacking during mealtimes and in the very early morning hours (crews cannot stay at general quarters for extended periods of time without suffering serious nervous problems from the stress). Why not try to trick its onboard depth-finding computers to think that shallow ground is actually deep so that the ship runs aground? Why not use SEAL teams or something similar? I don't care what all you do, just quit doing nothing but lobbing missiles and torpedoes and hoping they hit!

lol, a weapon in one shot that would crush this ship eh? Details, please, otherwise I don't believe it :p

Woah! okay- I may be unclear- freethinkers is building the Doujin? I had no idea.

When I viewed the "Doujin map" thread, I assumed the hugeass shipyard in the middle of the archepeligo would be where this huge ship was being built.

...in addition, I just sort of assumed that Doujin was going to attack anyways.

I don't seek to back down- I mean, I do want to attack the doujin and delay its construction, but not if that means dragging in any third or neutral parties.

I was ignorant of the situation, sorry.

The shipyard that the Doujin is being built at is in the Freethinkers. Doujinshi Corporation bought out Freethinkers Defenise Industries, thus acquiring Navarre Naval Shipyards and a couple other companies.

Well, then consider my post withdrawn. I'm sort of embarrassed by it.....pretty n00bish.

I have nothing against the freethinkers. Very sorry for the inflammatory action and pseudo-thread hijacking.

I have a better design, and it has been available for some time now. It is the "Hayooo!" class super-battleship! The reason that it is better is that it is much smaller, faster, dosn't spit out 30" balls of lead, and is many times more maneuverable. The reason it is faster, is because it is smaller, and has a larger ingine (in comarrison). The center hull conceals the main ingine, and the fuel. On top of that, there is the hangar, storing up to 20 small aircraft. the deck of the center hull is the birdge (which is shaped somewhat like a bridge), arching over the flight deck. The two side hulls are the exact same, both with a smaller ingine (that explaines the maneuverability). On the front of each is an 8" long range cannon. The ingines are neuclear, and run on plutonium. There are no props, because they are not stealthe at all!, but instead it uses catapillar propulsion (basialy underwater jet ingines) There are missile tubes on both of the side hulls, with patriot, tomahawk, bunker-busters, and armor-piercing missiles. And under the hulls are ammo spare missiles, and crew quarters. The ship is very efficient, but costs a concederable 5 billion usd a piece. Contact me with any questions/comments, and DO NOT post them on this topic! Good day.

LOL, very funny indeed.

:P

Well, then consider my post withdrawn. I'm sort of embarrassed by it.....pretty n00bish.

I have nothing against the freethinkers. Very sorry for the inflammatory action and pseudo-thread hijacking.


Dont worry about it, just ignore all my own posts too.

At least you didnt try and nuke it, lol.

If he would have tried to nuke it he would have been obliterated by several Mach 8+ nuclear missiles :P

Haha New M-pire! Are you even big enough to build them? Anyway, i see the Problem of the explosions have been sorted out, but the GDI is watching you all!(im Co-leader). OK, troops are on stand down! And people, stop double posting! or at least edit and say, sorry double post! Make me read an extra 5words!

Or not, WiH. I use the valuable time that the forums actually work for me and read the posts, instead of editing accidents.

This ship would seem to be obsolete before it is even built. You could probably field five or more carrier groups for the cost of one of these. The battleship is dead, which is why they don't make them any more.

:roll:

Actually, the battleship is dead in RL simply because only one country is rich enough to build them.

In the NS world however, they are far from obsolete. This thing may cost the same as a carrier group to build and run, but offers far more in terms of protection and survivability.

Remember NS isnt like RL, simply because here we have several v.v.v.v.v large nations with thousands of surface combatants. Applying RL rules we find that RL tactics and warships are simply too ineffective to operate in the NS world setup.

well, i was going to post something along the lines of that.. also tossing in power projection for me in but im eating and dont wanna get the keyboard greasy :op

Actually, the battleship is dead in RL simply because only one country is rich enough to build them.

In the NS world however, they are far from obsolete. This thing may cost the same as a carrier group to build and run, but offers far more in terms of protection and survivability.

Remember NS isnt like RL, simply because here we have several v.v.v.v.v large nations with thousands of surface combatants. Applying RL rules we find that RL tactics and warships are simply too ineffective to operate in the NS world setup.

Cost has little to do with it; the battleship is dead in RL because it has been superseded by the aircraft carrier.

That is the main reason why no battleships have been comissioned since world war II, when the carrier became prominent, and why no battleships have been active since the Iowa class was decomissioned in the early nineties (after spending most of the postwar period mothballed).

Carriers are simply far more effective - an air wing offers much more in the way of flexibility and strike power than a few large caliber guns.

As for having a battleship with a flight deck... that seems to be far less efficient than building a carrier and a couple of cruisers.

Actually, battleships are far more efficient than carriers in terms of delivering munitions. One minute's worth of rounds from a battleship is equal to two flights of planes from a carrier in terms of the amount of munitions they can drop. That one minute of firing is also FAR cheaper than those two flights of planes from the carrier. Carriers just have longer range and are more versatile due to the nature of planes; that is, they can engage aerial targets as well as ground targets and fly further than a gun launched round can travel.

The main reason battleships are obsolete in real life is because there is no longer a threat of large scale naval engagements where heavily armored and armed ships like that would be needed. And while they perform bombardment roles better than carriers, it's silly to keep two ships around doing the same thing. The battleship was thrown away because the carrier was able to perform things aside from bombardment as well.

Funny.. there were carriers in the 'Korean War' yet North Korea refused to negotiate unless the Iowa Battleships that were there were moved away from the 'bombardment' range.

During an interview about the 1944 Normandy landing published in "The German Generals Talk", German Field Marshall von Rundstedt said, "Besides the interference of the Air Forces, the fire of your battleships was a main factor in hampering our counter-stroke. This was big surprise, both in its range and effect." German General Blumentritt remarked that US Army officers who interrogated him after the war did not seem to realize what a serious effect naval bombardment had on German defenders. In Korea and Vietnam, the battleships boldly cruised just off the coast destroying targets whose air defenses had downed hundreds of US attack aircraft.

The truth is that battleships don't generate huge peacetime profits like aircraft carriers. A carrier requires billions of dollars for new aircraft every few years, and expensive aircraft parts, constant aircraft upgrades, and replacements for crashes. Industry reps even have cabins onboard carriers and deploy overseas. There are dozens of aircraft lobbyists tossing millions of dollars into the pockets of Congressmen, but no "battleship" lobbyists. Ironically, the best known battleship advocate was a naval aviator, former Secretary of the Navy John Lehman. Aircraft carriers are more powerful and flexible than battleships, but they cost four times more to operate and can't fill the battleships fire support niche. Any sane person who reads about this issue will discover that a US Navy with 11 carriers and 4 battleships could provide far more land attack power than 12 carriers, and would require less manpower.

BATTLESHIP = PRESENCE. BATTLESHIP = UNSINKABLE(Ok, hard to sink) FIRING PLATFORM. BATTLESHIP = 24/7 ON-CALL DESTRUCTION. BATTLESHIP = AEROSTAT WATCHING/ SENSING EVERYTHING WHILE TETHERED TO THE BATTLESHIP. BATTLESHIP = NO MORE PROBLEM. All aircraft are transitory; they can't hold the ground or the sea. Troops hold the ground, gun warships hold the sea. Battleships are the ULTIMATE gun warships, and with a little imagination, can do things that people thought impossible.

Well, in that case, I'll admit that battleships are more efficient for pummelling a poorly-equipped enemy that has no sea power to oppose it with. However, that wouldn't necessitate a class of super-battleship.

As for large scale fleet battles, which are obviously going to be far more common in NS than in the real world, I'll keep my aircraft carriers and submarines, thank you.

(ooc:I haven't read most of the thread, and I must admit that I'm only posting because I'm drunk, but the battleship is not obsolete, nor is it out of service because of cost. The active term is, "need" or a similar variable. Purpose, requirement, yada yada. I don't know how stupid you'd have to be to suppose that Germany, Japan, China, Britain, France, Italy, and so on can't afford a battleship, with trillion or multi-trillion dollar economies at their disposal. The point is that there's no need for them on earth. Who'd they use them on, hm? If someone sailed a new-build, well supported battleship up to the Lusakan coast and started firing away we'd have a serious problem. In reality no threat exists to justify the expenditure, in NS it does. Still, the battleship I glanced at on the first page of this thread is absolutely absurd and a joke that'd get whoever's in power unelected pretty sharpish.)

Well, I guess whether or not a battleship is necessary or not simply comes down to how we each see the naval world and how we assess the tactical needs of naval combat in the NS universe.

When designing this thing I guess that the main opponents we had in mind are not people who post on this page. Most people here have pretty good RP skills and a reasonable (if sometimes flawed) idea about naval combat and its realities.

It is built, simply, to survive against warmongering armies of ubernoobs who, unfortunately, due to their size, can realistically have a navy of a hundred or so destroyers and carriers. This is somewhat irritating, but nonetheless a fact of life in NS. (Yes, you can cry Godmod, or IGNORE, but
every situation has to be accounted for, and I am also aware they do use nukes with surprising and unerring regularity, but I deviate...)

Now, by experience we all know these wonderful characters tend to use current (usually US) navy ships. This is what the Doujin is designed to fight on the open seas. If your best ASfW weapon is a Harpoon or Tomahawk, or a 16" gun on one of those $20 million Iowas they seem to buy in bulk, then they will be absolutely ripped to shreds by 30" whilst their munitions helplessly bounce off the exterior of the Doujin.

Now, she's not invincible, but she is built to simply outsize modern conventional weapons. She is built, simply, to be too massive to kill even by Ubernoobs...

I'd rather invest in a $0 Ignore cannon, than a $50 billion battleship, for dealing with ubern00bs. I don't regard them as a threat, simply because I have no intention of interacting with idiots whose idea of roleplay is to reel off a huge list of ships and then declare themselves victorious.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Point taken. But, it is an original, if somewhat oversized solution to a naval problem, albeit somewhat expensive.

Oh well, sometimes you just need something to take comparing manhood sizes to the next level. :o

Not to mention other things, she is the Flagship of the entire navy and is basically "naval command" to an extent, and also a large billboard for my company which builds trimaran hulled ships. In your eyes, it may not be worth it. In mine, it is. The Power Projection that comes with such a feat as the Doujin is immense.. and you totally ignore the fact, Nimzonia, that hundreds of aircraft were shot down in the Korean/Vietnam war.. and if the US were to go up against a modernized nation .. more would be shot down as well.. what is going to take out the AA emplacements? Those 5" guns on cruisers with less than a quarter-inch thick armor, sitting a km away from the coast? Four .51 caliber heavy machine guns would cause $100 million in damage in less than a minute, and htat is only if you are lucky..

I wouldn't be surprised to see countries developing specialist weapons just for the sole purpose of destroying the Doujin should it become a threat. It's not like you could replace it in a hurry, and it's not like you wouldn't see it coming.

see, this is the really sad thing about NS.

The kilean navy is a well-designed, balanced (although small) force, that is a capable RL force.

In NS terms? Not so hot. To be fair, I do have one Kirov-class BCGN (which is dumb- I don't see how a navy as small as mine could/would/should be operating a huge ship like that) to keep my navy at least competitive with NS huge-warship wankfests, but even then....this problem comes up;

Naval combat in NS seems to punish realisim. I don't think the doujin class is realistic or wise or even *possible*, but in NS, I think it's a move than is practical to take.

The problem with this is, I am not an ubern00b (despite my "1 n00k ur ship!!1! post, which was mostly an act of fear), and my small, realistic navy is not gonna last more than an afternoon against this thing.

So- is a weapon built to deter ubern00bs in fact just a greater level of n00bage (well, not when it's designed by a naval design student, I guess), or what?

Point is: I don't want to have to field some sort of battleship to counter this thing. I have SS-N-19 missiles. I have naval bomber regiments. I have super-heavy "Longbow" air-launched supersonic crusie missiles. I've got exocets and Sunburns on ships and thousands of Seersuckers for shore defense.

And none of those will put a dent in this thing. Sure, I'm eventually gonna haul out an old Slepnir-class BB.....

....and place it in my shore assault group.

I've probably re-stated my point three or four times by now, but let me say it again: the Doujin class makes any attempt to fight it without some level of n00bage impossible, and claims that it can spoof missiles and shoot down all air attacks sort of bug me.

I ask a semi question of Doujin: Would I be right to assume that, if I was to fight this thing n00b style (I SEND 40 IOWAS AT YOU!), I'd get my ass kicked. If I fought it realistically and smartly, could a more or less RL based navy stand a chance?

see, this is the really sad thing about NS.

The kilean navy is a well-designed, balanced (although small) force, that is a capable RL force.

Yes, but in RL the largest navy is owned what in the nationstates world would be a small nation with a strong economy (or frightening, but still) The sheer size and scale of nations in this game simply means that the resources availiable to nations vastly exceeds RL and this means that so will the realistic amount of surface vessels and the number of countries able to deploy them. Of you were realistic, then you're navy would be much, much larger.


In NS terms? Not so hot. To be fair, I do have one Kirov-class BCGN (which is dumb- I don't see how a navy as small as mine could/would/should be operating a huge ship like that) to keep my navy at least competitive with NS huge-warship wankfests, but even then....this problem comes up;

So, well, isnt this simply that you do not wish to build large surface combatants yourself, so, you don't want anyone else to?
I understand that the Doujin is large, and that it is much bigger than anything in reallife, but then again, all militaries build weapons to give them a tactical edge. If that means simply building a warship on a grand scale so that it can absorb most modern conventional weapons, then that issimply our solution to the problem.


Naval combat in NS seems to punish realisim. I don't think the doujin class is realistic or wise or even *possible*, but in NS, I think it's a move than is practical to take.

Technically feasible, if that is what you mean, I was actually discussing the design with my design proffessor today. The Doujin is not very manueverable, or fast, or capable of operating near a coast, but we do agree with this. We are only building one ship, not a class, and we are defintely taking into account all the disadvantages and realities of her capabilities. We have looked at the design and decided that the advantages, in our eyes, outway the disadvantages. Simple as that.


The problem with this is, I am not an ubern00b (despite my "1 n00k ur ship!!1! post, which was mostly an act of fear), and my small, realistic navy is not gonna last more than an afternoon against this thing.

Every navy has this problem. I mean, look at world reaction when the Dreadnought was launched in 1906. She revolutionised naval combat, was basically capable of, and other navies were forced to adapt or die. That's how it is whenever someone invents a new type of weapon system, other nations have to be willing to build an effective counter to it. that is, basically, the entire course of weapon design through the ages.


So- is a weapon built to deter ubern00bs in fact just a greater level of n00bage (well, not when it's designed by a naval design student, I guess), or what?

It is built, simply, because it was the best solution to the problem of gaining a tactical advantage on the Ocean, from our perspective.


Point is: I don't want to have to field some sort of battleship to counter this thing. I have SS-N-19 missiles. I have naval bomber regiments. I have super-heavy "Longbow" air-launched supersonic crusie missiles. I've got exocets and Sunburns on ships and thousands of Seersuckers for shore defense.

Well :? I guess this isnt my problem. If you choose to use weapons designed for vessels in the 2,000-10,000 ton range, then, you are not going to be doing all that much damage now?


And none of those will put a dent in this thing. Sure, I'm eventually gonna haul out an old Slepnir-class BB.....

....and place it in my shore assault group.

Well, technically you just made the case for the Doujin.


I've probably re-stated my point three or four times by now, but let me say it again: the Doujin class makes any attempt to fight it without some level of n00bage impossible, and claims that it can spoof missiles and shoot down all air attacks sort of bug me.

Well, not a claim she can, but she is built with spectacularly heavy air defences and an entire air defense wing to help protect her. We're not saying she would destroy every missile or every aircraft. What we are saying is that she has enough defenses to ensure that she can cause significant damage on any aggressor.

She is not invincible, but she is very, very hard to kill, and that is what, in essence, she was designed for.


I ask a semi question of Doujin: Would I be right to assume that, if I was to fight this thing n00b style (I SEND 40 IOWAS AT YOU!), I'd get my ass kicked. If I fought it realistically and smartly, could a more or less RL based navy stand a chance?

Well, as someone suggested, maybe using outmoded weapon systems on unarmoured ships against a behemoth like the Doujin probably isnt a good idea. Try using unconventional approaches, or building more suitable surface combatants, but if you limit yourself to simple RL weapons and conventional surface tactics, then dont expect to win, simple as that.

The one great thing about NS is that time runs by much quicker and it takes far less time to get new ideas and new designs built. Its simply evolving combat, its forcing you to do precisely what nations do in RL, adapt.

I do feel for you. Realism is something we all strive for. But there is nothing realistic in using a small force of outmoded ships designed with weapons copied from a nation or two in RL.

The point is...

If the Doujin basically makes your fleet obsolete, then it has been designed very well and completes it purpose.

Damn definatly wish i could get my hands on just one for testing. Sounds near indistructible.

Not really. My destroyers (most of which are of Doujin design, ironically) can fire missiles up to 200 miles away. A full barrage from all 16 should decimate this ship. If that doesn't work, I've got my submarines.

I think the NS world makes a poor basis for an argument. There are over 120,000 countries, and a year passes at the rate of one per day. By your argument, we should all be ubertech nations who have transcended humanity by now.

For a start, there is no one definite canon NS world - lots of nations are of different tech levels, lots ignore each other, many claim to be in the same place, and you can't fit 120,000 countries on one planet.

The NS world has to mirror the RL world, because that is the situation people want to RP in. It is quite true that many people don't want to build these things themselves, and don't want other people to - for the preservation of a sane RP environment. The alternative is that everyone builds them, and you have a status quo again, but one that is more difficult to roleplay because it doesn't reflect reality.

I imagine that for every navy the Doujin crushes, two will ignore it.

Not really. My destroyers (most of which are of Doujin design, ironically) can fire missiles up to 200 miles away. A full barrage from all 16 should decimate this ship. If that doesn't work, I've got my submarines.

Using SABOT rounds, the 30" guns can fire over 500km.

Using RR/SR, even farther.

Using SABOT rounds, the 30" guns can fire over 500km.

Using RR/SR, even farther.

Okay, using your SABOT rounds, you can fire 50 miles farther than my missiles. How fast can those guns fire, eh? And at 250 miles, those guns aren't going to be too accurate, right? So, basically, you'll take out one or two of my destroyers before they get in range. A volley from 14 destroyers is still pretty devastating.

And don't forget my pride-and-joy, the Alpha-IIs.

and your going to take out my battleship and her entire battlegroup, huh? dont think so ;)

My point is, the age of the battleship is over. The ship is simply too big a target, too costly, and too slow to be very effective for anything other than shore bombardment or long range assault. Maybe even as a heavy carrier. However, I think the technology wasted in this battleship could have been better used in, say, a missile attack boat or a strictly heavy carrier.

Thats fair enough.

We see it differently, then again, we all do. We each evaluate different combat needs and evolve our own designs from them.

Remember, everyone here has their own ideas on how naval warfare works, and has navies that reflect this.

It is a good point, saying about how the NS is a bad excuse, but even so, there aqre an abundance of large, good RPers with excellent navies. We needed a counter, we built this.

May I remind everyone that there is no such thing as modern naval warfare in anything except theory. For example, there has only ever been one torpedo attack by a nuclear submarine on a surface warship,and that was by an old nuclear submarine on a world war 2 era cruiser, conducted with short range, unguided torpedoes. Yet here we suddenly have wolfpacks of Seawolfs engaging hundred ship battlefleets. There hasn't been a naval engagement for so long in RL that it is impossible to say precisely how realistic our own tactics are.

If you choose to follow these designs and tactics, then we will assume that this is what you intend to operate in a war and thus seek to innovate new systems designed to make these weapons and tactics obsolete.

It doesnt make for worse RP, rather,the opposite is true. By forcing opponents to be innovative and original then maybe, just maybe, we can start actually acting like proper nations rather than just copies of RL in everyhting but name.

Now, the Doujin and her capabilities are not infeasible, nor are they that excessive. She is an incredibly capable weapons platform, but she still floats and so can still be sunk.

Unfortunately to sink her you will have to do something more than simply RP firing off a hundred Harpoons, as per usual, you will have to actually create a valid counter, either a deep-penetration missile system (a very deep one), an equivalent warsip or system, or indeed something else entirely new.

But at least start actually acting like independent nations, innovating and creating original units. If you dont want to fight the vessel, simply dont declare war on Doujin. Don't punish him for creating a viable if somewhat expensive defensive unit for use against ships and weapons you simply borrowed from RL.

Kilean, the attack on the dockyard was, in fact, brilliant tactical (if not strategic) play, and if you hadnt minded bringing another nation into the war, would probably have set back the Doujin for three to six months in construction, as well as vastly increasing the cost of it. It was innovative, and, at least, displayed some originality. Thats what is required here.

Despite the fact it would likely take about six months to get this beastie to where it's supposed to go, despite the fact that, if it is true that a broadside from this ship delivers the equivalent of a nuclear device upon a target, that the hull stresses from firing those rounds would be excessive -- the Iowa and Yamato class had enough trouble with 16" and 18" guns -- if chemical propellant is used, and if not you would probably require a nuclear reactor simply to charge and recharge the gun to achieve the distances you are stating, despite the fact that anyone who saw anything like this coming anywhere near their territory on a non-peaceful mission would almost have to nuke it, preferably from below, to defeat it, and your navy... well, it's just plain overkill. Admittedly, ship classes certainly are far larger than what they used to be (destroyers of the 1960s would, in tonnage terms, be classed as frigates today), and some people are investigating building "cities on the sea," but this monster simply belies good judgment. With unmanned vehicle technology of a similar era to that used to construct this vessel, this ship could be rendered effectively useless. And why even bother with aircraft when you state that this sucker can plonk a shell accurately from 500 km (or was it miles) out. Just think of the infrastructure to move this behemoth out of the yards after launching, consider the degaussing and deperming costs alone (this sucker probably becomes a magnetic pole in its own right), as well as the price of careering its hull of barnacles and other things.

If this beastie does exist, it's time for me to start developing my godzilla technology. I can afford to lose a couple of towns or metropoleis to save myself from this titan.

OK, so this ship is invincible, no way! All you have to do is to use lazers, come on people, when the dreadnought was launched small navies could take them out, they made new inventions, maily the fast attack boat, a little earlier but...in a month or so RL time this ship will be out of date! I personnaly think that stick with RL, slightly fututre tech stuff that is being researched, or be future tech!

Well, to be fair, the SS-N-19 was built to take down ships in the 90-100,000 ton range.

I think the solution lies in bigger antiship supersonic cruise missiles.


The doujin sort of is like old tall-ship combat, before HE shells were invented. The only way ships of Nelson's era could take each other out is boarding, blasting away the propulsion systems, or just bashing it down to the waterline. The sheer mass of this ship is insane, and probably the single biggest protective factor it has.

Out of curiosity: what's the ASW loadout of the Doujin? Helos and a SUBROC equivalent, I assume.

In terms of defences? Or just offensive options?

In basic terms, she carries magazine launched 21" torpedo tubes with Mk48 MDCAP torpedoes, as well as quite a few helicopters. She also carries standard countermeasures.