NationStates Jolt Archive

PROJECT CANCELLED

First Modern Power Armor


Due to recent breakthroughs in robotic technology Scellia is able to offer the first true power armor for modern nations. Recent prototypes using BLEEX (http://www.me.berkeley.edu/hel/bleex.htm) technology has lead to the final product, the Mark I power armor or Pa-Mk I. The hugely increased load bearing of the person using BLEEX leg enhancements incorporated into the armor allows for the tremendous weight and size. The arm enhancements allow for the use of heavy weapons while controlling kick back to the point it is negligible.

Pa-Mk I

http://home.earthlink.net/~phxcmd/images/heavymetal.gif
Without helmet

http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:0LrBKeokVRQJ:home.comcast.net/~panzerlemming/images/games/Fallout2.jpg
With Helmet


Height: 6’ 10”

Width: 4’ 5”

Armor Weight: 260 lbs.

Carry Weight: 70 lbs.

Soldier Weight: 500 lbs.

Helmet Systems:
-Full NBC protection
-Low Light/IR system
-Radio Uplink
-GPS
-Computer Databank
-Head lights

Armor: 1/4 inch of ceramic armor(found on modern tanks), 1/16 Inch of titanium alloy(on outside), joints in armor are covered by Kevlar fabric on interior.

Cost: $25,000 per suit

The Pa-Mk I is nearly invulnerable to the modern soldier, low velocity rounds cannot hope to penetrate the thick tank level armor. Thus pistol and shotgun rounds are completely useless against the Pa-Mk I, high velocity light caliber weapons are nearly as useless, requiring sustained fire on a single point. This renders M-16’s and AK-47’s useless as well as similar assault rifles, heavy machine guns like .50 caliber or 20mm may pierce the armor but is not guaranteed. The carry weight and mobility of the suit allows occupants to carry this heavy weapons and fire them accurately, a helmet mounted targeting system shows the soldier where the gun is pointing without aiming through a sight. Guns must be modified to be used by the thick fingers of the suit as well as anti-tank weapons. Modern anti-tank weapons are nearly useless against the Pa-Mk I because a direct hit is required, and the Pa-Mk I retains much of a soldiers mobility.


Pa-Mk II

http://www.df.lth.se/~tommy/robotech/Images/ba-que.jpg

Height: 8’ 3”

Width: 5’ 1”

Armor Weight: 320 lbs.

Carry Weight: 150 lbs.

Soldier Weight: 720 lbs.

Helmet Systems:
-Full NBC protection
-Low Light/IR system
-Radio Uplink
-GPS
-Computer Databank
-Head lights

Armor: 1/3 inch of ceramic armor(found on modern tanks), 1/12 Inch of titanium alloy(on outside), joints are covered by rotating interior plates 1/16 inch ceramic armor.

Cost: $70,000 per suit

The Pa-Mk II is the answer to overpriced tanks, while the Pa-Mk II doesn’t mount nearly the same armor as a tank the incredibly superior mobility makes modern anti-tank weapons useless against it. Hand held weapons by normal soldiers cannot pierce the heavy armor of the Pa-Mk II, and even heavy machine guns will have a hard time doing so. The Pa-Mk II can carry some of the heaviest anti-tank weapons know from shoulder mounts Hellfire quad pack to reloadable TOW launchers.


Order here or at Scellian Advanced Systems Storefront (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=124155). DO YOUR OWN MATH, thank you. Questions, comment and orders are welcome.

PROJECT CANCELLED

Incoming transmission from the Steel Legion Commander.

"I am Lord Ursakar Dresk. We are quite interested in your power armor. Though it seems inferior to the Mk-V Imperitor Astartes power armor, we would possibly like to form an alliance with a nation that has such advanced technology. We await your response."

The link doesn't work :S

It worked now :D

The Steel Legions, let me make this clear first...

THIS IS A MODERN POWER ARMOR, NOT FUTURE TECH

After that being said are you a future tech nation or not? BLEEX is real, and all the armor components are found on modern tanks so all the stuff that makes the armor exists today, that means that this is modern armor.

We want 5000 Pa-Mk I for our special commandos.
Total: $125000000
Would you be interesed in a contract to equip in the next years our entire infantry army of 1.75 million?
If you are interesed, how much would it cost???
TG me with your answer.

Order confirmed, I will TG you wil details of a possible multi-year contract soon.

OCC: Just an advanced warning, Skeelzania already uses the graphic from the Fallout Tactics powerarmor. You can use it whenver you want, just develep your own back story and whatever. I'm just warning you, it could get confusing if two people are using the same type of armor.

THIS IS A MODERN POWER ARMOR, NOT FUTURE TECH

You can call it modern all you like, but methinks it still counts as future tech.

How is it future tech? What part of the suit uses tech that doesn't exist currently, the US could make the suit without the BLEEX part but no one could move once it was on. Look at the BLEEX link, it is real and the armor could exist so it is modern tech.

OCC: Maybe Nimzonia is saying that no one could build one of these today, right now. Even with the BLEEX tech, those are only the legs. Similar equipment for the arms and torso need to be developed, and while I'm sure lots of people have spent time and energy on it we just don't have it yet. But, add 10-20 years and power armor may become a reality. I believe this would fall into the "late-modern" category, as I've heard it called occasionally. And besides, plenty of modern RPers use things that are still in prototype or are not even developed yet, like the OICW gun.

OOC: Ah, I always thought of modern tech as we could build now or in a couple years. The F/A-22, OICW and other prototypes are included in modern tech, that is why this is. After all the arms would be easier then the legs so all the requiste tech is there already, someone just needs to peice it together.

The Security Ministry of Grand Hobgoblonia wishes to submit a bid for 12,000 Pa-Mk1 at an overall cost of $300,000,000. This falls well within the yearly military budget of Grand Hobgoblonia, especially after recent increases in military funding passed by the Prime Ministry, and this purchase should stand as a symbol of Grand Hobgoblonia's commitment to modernizing its deterrent force.

To Scellia's efforts at keeping the world safer,
Gor Morb
Security Ministry Director

We thank you for your order and gladly confirm. Your suits will be shiped immediately.

How is it future tech? What part of the suit uses tech that doesn't exist currently, the US could make the suit without the BLEEX part but no one could move once it was on. Look at the BLEEX link, it is real and the armor could exist so it is modern tech.

It wouldn't need future tech to exist in its barest state, but it would need to be future tech to be even remotely combat worthy. Just getting BLEEX, and whacking 300lbs of armour on it, will make you immune to small arms alright, but it won't make you an effective soldier.

For a start, if you fell over, you'd have trouble getting up again. Armour of that weight will greatly restrict one's mobility, BLEEX or not - BLEEX isn't anti-gravity. Renaissance plate armour weighed about 60lbs at its height, and knights were more or less screwed if they fell over. BLEEX might allow sufficient lower body mobility for carrying heavy loads at a running pace, but it isn't yet sufficiently developed to allow full upper and lower body mobility for a full range of combat tasks.

Soldiers in this armour would be considerably less mobile than standard infantry, not only on the battle field, but also to transport - I doubt you could fit very many in a truck or APC. They would also present a MUCH larger target profile, especially since the armour is too heavy for them to effectively take prone positions. An RPG, for example, would make short work of one.

I don't doubt that the technology could eventually be sufficiently refined to make it effective, but that would take a considerable amount of time, thus pushing it into the realms of future tech.

At least, that's the way I see it.

I also include upper arm attachment that allow for self righting, slightly restricted mobility is the price you pay for heavy armor. It is true that these people are much bigger and heavier then the standard soldier, but I included that in the statistics. BLEEX is advanced enought to allow someone to run around and auto-correct for balance, it is advanced enough to allow someone to aim a gun. A direct RPG hit will damage the armor but they don't have the penetration power to take out the armor, plus it will be hard to get a direct hit. It is already refined to the point that it is viable today, testing and people noticing are the only parts left.

A direct RPG hit will damage the armor but they don't have the penetration power to take out the armor, plus it will be hard to get a direct hit.

The RPG is an anti-tank rocket launcher, designed to destroy tanks. In the gulf, they were turning Abrams MBTs inside out. An RPG hit will turn someone wearing this armour into so much red goo. Due to the bulkiness and lack of mobility, it would not be particularly difficult to hit. It would be incredibly easy to hit with small arms, and though they might not do much damage, repeatedly being hit by 7.62mm and .50 rounds will certainly tip it over. You'd be better off with a Humvee, or something.

I also include upper arm attachment that allow for self righting

That will be nowhere near enough, to take all situations into account. It won't be very quick, either.

BLEEX is advanced enought to allow someone to run around and auto-correct for balance, it is advanced enough to allow someone to aim a gun

That would appear to be all it does, and you need considerably more than that on the battlefield. It certainly won't be fast enough to allow rapid-aiming, and firing of snap-shots - the bulk of the armour will prevent that. I suspect you are seriously over-estimating the current capabilities of the technology. If the US army puts something similar into service next year, I'll take back what I've said. But until that happens, I'm entirely sceptical that this can be considered modern tech.

We'd like to buy 500 of your Mk1 Power Armour Suits. We intend to use them to augment our own Mechanoid units. we will wire all $12500000
on delivery.
We agree with other nations observations- your power amrour will be largely ineffective on a battlefield, but if gused instead on a mechanoid or a vehicle that is stronger and mroe reliable than a human wearer, then maybe it might work.

HMMM.. Ill buy 20,000,000 or your 3rd battle suits
money $14,000,000,000
money wired

Draklor: Math doesn't add up, and I don't have a 3rd suit, just 2 designs but waht ever design you ordered the math still doesn't add up.

Vexia: You can conduct field tests, but the armor performs much better then Nimzonia makes it out to, just listen to the rest of our debate.

Nimzonia: I would first like to thank you, I'm glad someone will debate me on this so I can prove the superior quality of my goods.

The RPG is an anti-tank rocket launcher, designed to destroy tanks. In the gulf, they were turning Abrams MBTs inside out. An RPG hit will turn someone wearing this armour into so much red goo. Due to the bulkiness and lack of mobility, it would not be particularly difficult to hit. It would be incredibly easy to hit with small arms, and though they might not do much damage, repeatedly being hit by 7.62mm and .50 rounds will certainly tip it over. You'd be better off with a Humvee, or something.

No the RPG is not anti-tank. RPG stand for Rocket Propelled Grenade, and it doesn't turn M-1A1 inside out. We barely lost 600 IIRC in the first gulf war and half where to friendly fire, the Iraqi's had plenty of RPG's but they didn't kill many tanks before or now. The RPG is exactly what it says, a grenade with a rocket on it. This lightest this thing is is 500 lbs. that doesn't tip over easily especially if the person is braced like any good soldier. The Pa-Mk series are much more manuverable then tanks, if slower. It has no need to dodge light gunfire so the mobility it does retain is enough to take on the heavy targets, and the mobility is not as limited as you think. It can still move out of the way of spraying gunfire, it doesn't have to simply stand there and take it.

That will be nowhere near enough, to take all situations into account. It won't be very quick, either.

Yes it will, a person can right themselves and this can too. Albeit a little slower but it can do so, and knocking it over is very hard to do. 7.62 mm or .50 caliber might do it but only repeated hits. Last part to come, I need to leave, RL calls.

As much as Nilt would like these, we don't have the money. which is why we are selling our Reserve stock of Jagopanther tanks, and Ragnarok tanks.

OOC:
personally it could work but with soem concerns:
while a waldo system is feasible would it truely be manouverable and responsive enough? The actual motive controls will be easily used but the fire control system would in my mind be debatable.
Your armor protection might be an issue i recon you might just be able to survive .50 ball hits but the wearer will get rather banged up in the process. Of course specialist penetrator rounds are another matter esspecailly in soem of the more impressive (and smaller) available rounds.
<edit> just found an interesting bit of data that indicates that to stop 7.62x39mm AP ammo you need 20mm of composites, an 8mm ceramic hard outer and a 12mm liner (to stop .50 rounds you need closer to 85-90mm!!!) of course your scheme of titanium backed by a think layer of ceramics is slightly different but an educated geus would be that due to the properties of titanium you might need a thicker liner. Or you might have your personell wear a full Lvl III suit underneath the armour...</edit>

In the end i think they are too large a bulky to be of much use to Crookfur forces and while reasonably well protected against most older and/or basic small arms they will be easily defeatable using our average squad support weapons.

No the RPG is not anti-tank. RPG stand for Rocket Propelled Grenade, and it doesn't turn M-1A1 inside out. We barely lost 600 IIRC in the first gulf war and half where to friendly fire, the Iraqi's had plenty of RPG's but they didn't kill many tanks before or now.

Do some research before you argue. The RPG is anti-tank. And it doesn't stand for Rocket Propelled Grenade. It stands for 'Reaktivniy Protivotankoniy Granatomet', or 'Rocket anti-tank grenade launcher'. It fires a shaped-charge warhead which ejects a stream of molten copper upon impact, designed for the purpose of penetrating tank armour. The term grenade does not exclusively mean anti-personnel fragmentation grenades - They also come in the High Explosive Anti Tank (HEAT) variety. The iraqis did score tank kills in the gulf, using RPGs. If they were unsuccessful, it was probably because they were using RPG-7s, which are a bit old, and probably not up to par against modern tank armour.

The RPG will cut this armour to pieces, as will all MBT main guns, field artillery, HEAT rockets and grenades, mortars, and probably the 25mm-30mm cannons on infantry fighting vehicles and the like. You won't get protection from anything heavier than 20mm at 300lbs. There's a reason tanks weigh 50 tons. The infantryman in this suit of armour won't be able to mount a 120mm gun or run at 50mph, either. I hate to think what the power requirements for sustained use are, also.

Yes it will, a person can right themselves and this can too. Albeit a little slower but it can do so, and knocking it over is very hard to do. 7.62 mm or .50 caliber might do it but only repeated hits.

I doubt it. Modern engineering isn't anywhere near up to par with the finesse and agility of the human body. An upper arm attachment will not be enough to right a 300lb suit of armour, in all circumstances, or at least, not without further drastically reducing its mobility. Find a 500lb man, and see if he can stand himself up using only his shoulder. BLEEX is apparently designed to allow full motion of the legs while walking and running, and help carry loads over distances. It is not necessarily designed to allow a 300lb suit of armour pick itself up off the ground, throw itself about, and generally do the things a soldier needs to do in combat. It isn't strong enough to allow one to jump while carrying that much weight. Also, it isn't a combat system - it could quite easily be damaged by rough treatment that might come from the wearer falling over (especially while carrying 300lbs of armour, not to mention other equipment).

Very good points, I think I will discontinue sales until the program can be re-evaluated. Thank you for pointing out the errors, but I still contest the RPG claim. All orders to current buyers have been shiped, but anyone can come back for a full refund.

OOC;

Then quickly! I shall send my Ompa Loompa's to steal yer' claim!

:P

OOC: Don't worry about it. Your armor still qualifies as near-future tech, something which is generally accepted in RPing. Xha'dam too has near future tech power armor which it will use should we be forced to war. My research pegs true power armor at about 20 years out,

Very good points, I think I will discontinue sales until the program can be re-evaluated. Thank you for pointing out the errors, but I still contest the RPG claim. All orders to current buyers have been shiped, but anyone can come back for a full refund.

Sorry - I'm not trying to be obnoxious or anything, but I like to keep modern RP modern. Without the facts, many of your potential buyers may be tempted to use this equipment as an excuse for Godmoding.

http://www.g2mil.com/RPG.htm provides info on the RPG-7, if you don't believe me. If it can kill 50-ton tanks, 300lb man-portable armour isn't going to stand up to it.