NationStates Jolt Archive

The Navy Shipyards of the Freethinkers are proud to present the latest in naval warfare. Stealthy, trimiran designs are included. Do your own math.

Pics here: www.geocities.com/jimmymac6662002/exportnav.gif?

BATTLESHIPS/BATTLECRUISERS

LEVIATHAN Class Battleship


Displacement: 650,000 tons
Propulsion: 8 x Mk 15 Nuclear Reactors/Steam Turbine Arrangement, 600,000 shp, 4 shafts / 4 jets, 36 kts
Crew: 2,000 + 240 Marines + 120 Flag Staff
Radar: AS18 Close-Range Air Search/Tracking, SS34 Long Range Surface Search/Tracking, SS42 Short Range Surface Search/Tracking, G04 Navigation
Fire Control: Overlord N/Command System, T03 Close Engagement Control, NG04A Gunfire Control
EW: 6 Type 3 Chaff/Flare Dispensers, “Cosmic” ECM/ESM suite, undisclosed ELINT equipment.
Sonar: SN12 Bow-mounted, SN 20 Towed-array
Aviation: 1 extensive helipad + hangar, 8 medium helicopters
Armament: 24 x 22"/60 “Peacemaker” Guns (6 x Quadruple Mounts), 8 x 5”/48 Guns (8 x Single Mounts), 2 x 42-Cell VLS (168 SAM/SSM Missiles), 16 x 20mm Legion CIWS, 6 x 20mm Cannons, 4 x 7.62mm GPMGs, 4 x ML Mk22 Torpedo Tubes (20 Torpedoes)
Armour: 500-1000mm Titanium Composite
Builders: Navarre Navy Shipyards
Cost: $8,000,000,000

AIRCRAFT CARRIERS

INVINCIBLE Class Aircraft Carrier


Displacement: 115,000 tons
Propulsion: 4 x Mk 12 Nuclear Reactors/Steam Turbine Arrangement, 320,000 shp, 4 shafts, 35 kts
Crew: 2,100 + 1,700 Airwing + 100 Flag Staff
Radar: AS18 Close-Range Air Search/Tracking, AS16 Long-Range Air Search/Tracking, SS42 Short Range Surface Search/Tracking, G04 Navigation
Fire Control: Overlord N/Air Control System, T03 Close Engagement Control
EW: 6 x Type 3 Chaff/Flare Dispensers, “Hawkeye” ECM/ESM suite
Sonar: SN10 Bow-mounted
Aviation: Full-length, overhanging flightdeck with extensive hangar facilities, four catapults, 90 CTOL / Helicopters
Armament: 2 x 3”/40 AGTs, 5 x 20mm Legion CIWS, 3 x 20mm Cannons
Armour: 120 mm Steel
Builders: Navarre Navy Shipyards
Cost: $3,700,000,000


DESTROYERS/FRIGATES/CORVETTES

CENTAUR Class Guided Missile Destroyer


Displacement: 10,000 tons
Propulsion: 4 x N5500 Gas Turbines, 100,000 shp, 2 shafts / 2 jets, 42 kts
Crew: 210
Radar: AS18 Close-Range Air Search/Tracking, SS34 Long Range Surface Search/Tracking, SS42 Short Range Surface Search/Tracking, G04 Navigation
Fire Control: Overlord N/Extended System, T03 Close Engagement Control, NG04A Gunfire Control
EW: 3 Type 3 Chaff/Flare Dispensers, “Cosmic” ECM/ESM suite
Sonar: SN12 Bow-mounted, SN 20 Towed-array
Aviation: Large helipad and hangar, 2 medium helicopters
Armament: 1 x 5”/50S Gun, 2 x 3”/40 AGTs, 2 x 42-Cell VLS (168 SAM/SSM Missiles), 2 x Quadruple ‘Scimitar’ LRSSM Launchers (40 Missiles), 1 x 48-Cell ‘Seasnake’ SRSAM VLS (96 Missiles), 4 x 20mm Legion CIWS, 2 x 30mm Cannons, 4 x 7.62mm GPMGs, 2 x ML Mk22 Torpedo Tubes (16 Torpedoes)
Armour: 125 mm Titanium Composite
Builders: Navarre Navy Shipyards / Kettering Shipbuilders Inc
Cost: $1,200,000,000

HORIZON Class Guided Missile Destroyer


Displacement: 7,000 tons
Propulsion: 2 x N5100 Gas Turbines / 2 N4100 Diesel Turbines , 70,000 shp, 2 shafts, 30 kts
Crew: 256
Radar: AS15 Close-Range Air Search/Tracking, SS32 Long Range Surface Search/Tracking, SS40 Short Range Surface Search/Tracking, G04 Navigation
Fire Control: Overlord N/Extended System, T02 Close Engagement Control, NG03 Gunfire Control
EW: 4 Type 2 Chaff/Flare Dispensers, “Hawkeye” ECM/ESM suite
Sonar: SN10 Bow-mounted, SN 18 Towed-array
Aviation: Helipad with hangar, 1 medium / 2 small helicopters
Armament: 1 x 5”/48 Gun, 1 x 42-Cell VLS (84 SAM/SSM Missiles), 2 x Quadruple ‘Scimitar’ LRSSM Launchers (40 Missiles), 3 x 20mm Legion CIWS, 2 x 30mm Cannons, 2 x 7.62mm GPMGs, 2 x Triple Mk22 Torpedo Tubes (6 Torpedoes)
Armour: 120 mm Steel
Builders: Navarre Navy Shipyards
Cost: $300,000,000

ARDENT Class Guided Missile Frigates


Displacement: 6,000 tons
Propulsion: 2 x N5100 Gas Turbines, 50,000 shp, 2 shafts, 32 kts
Crew: 170
Radar: AS18 Close-Range Air Search/Tracking, SS32 Long Range Surface Search/Tracking, SS42 Short Range Surface Search/Tracking, G04 Navigation
Fire Control: Overlord N/Extended System, T03 Close Engagement Control, NG04 Gunfire Control
EW: 3 Type 3 Chaff/Flare Dispensers, “Hawkeye” ECM/ESM suite
Sonar: SN12 Bow-mounted, SN20 Towed-array
Aviation: Helipad with hangar, 1 medium helicopter
Armament: 1 x 5”/48 Gun, 2 x Quadruple ‘Scimitar’ LRSSM Launchers (40 Missiles), 1 x 8-Cell ‘Seasnake’ SRSAM Launcher (32 Missiles), 2 x 20mm Legion CIWS, 2 x 20mm Cannons, 2 x 7.62mm GPMGs, 2 x ML Mk22 Torpedo Tubes (10 Torpedoes)
Armour: 125 mm Steel
Builders: Navarre Navy Shipyards
Cost: $450,000,000

BROADSWORD Class Escort Frigates


Displacement: 2,800 tons
Propulsion: 2 x N5500 Gas Turbines, 52,000 shp, 2 shafts, 36 kts
Crew: 118
Radar: AS18 Close-Range Air Search/Tracking, SS42 Short Range Surface Search/Tracking, G04 Navigation
Fire Control: Overlord N/Standard System, T03 Close Engagement Control
EW: 1 Type 3 Chaff/Flare Dispenser, “Hawkeye” ECM/ESM suite
Sonar: SN12 Bow-mounted
Aviation: Helipad with hangar, 1 small helicopter
Armament: 1 x 5”/50S Gun, 1 x 48-Cell ‘Seasnake’ SRSAM VLS (96 Missiles), 2 x 20mm Cannons, 2 x ML Mk22 Torpedo Tubes (8 Torpedoes)
Armour: 80 mm Titanium Composite
Builders: Kettering Shipbuilders Inc
Cost: $200,000,000

BUMP

BUMPERS

BUMPY BUMP BUMP!

Yeah, this storefront rules. I have a question: what program did you use to make the ship pictures? just photoshop?

Not even that....just humble MS Paint. It looks basic, but I like to believe Im doing more than just renaming ship time and again.

Guess originality doesnt pay huh....

It would if we hadn't already built our own navy. :?

Out of my price league i'm afraid.

yeah, me too. I mean, it's really awesome that you've got original stuff, but i've already got a navy....hell, okay.

A light carrier. Kilean needs a light carrier of some sort. I know you don't offer one, but if you could dig up one that looks as awesome as the rest of your ships do, I'd be very interested in one as a standard light carrier and another as a helicopter carrier/assault ship. The carrier you have now is awesome, but 100,000+ tons is a big big for what we're looking for.

OOC: It's not originality that's the problem, though many players prefer to have systems that exist in the real world, as they're easier to work with.

However, the problems with the stats on your ships don't help too much either.
Most notably, almost everything here is WAY underpriced, with many things costing less than half what they should. Though there are some notable problems elsewhere as well.

We'll start with the 650,000 ton battleship. Such a ship is not only almost impossible to build, but impossible to use, and as the first thing listed, is going to send anyone who knows squat packing. Imagine the size of that thing, and the draft. It wouldn't be able to get close enough to shore to be useful, and it would even have to be built offshore. I would suggest knocking it down to no more than 150,000 tons, and preferably less than that. With that, the armament should be no more than 15 22" guns, preferably 12 with all the extra armament and hangar space. Cost is astronomical (working with titanium here). I'd say at least $12 billion for a 150,000 ton ship, and a 650,000 tonner would be well over $40 billion.

The carrier isn't that bad, but up the price by at least $1 billion, and maybe shave a bit off the weight. Fleet carriers generally have an average of one aircraft for a little over 1000 tons of displacement.

The Centaur's about equivalent to a Ticonderoga or Arleigh Burke, but the titanium hull will up the price a bit. Put it at least at $1.5 billion, probably $2 billion if it's supposed to have a long-range air search radar (which you didn't list, but any guided missile vessel would).

The HORIZON Destroyer is the worst priced unit here. If it's supposed to be comparable to the real HORIZON project ships, at least triple the price, probably quadrouple. If not, at least double the price, and probably triple.

The Broadsword looks a bit overloaded. Unless those are very short-ranged SAMs like the Barak or RAM, you shouldn't have more than half that many, probably only a third. Price should be at least increased by 50%, probably doubled.


For all ships:
1) Another thing that might throw off customers: NOT ONE of these ships is listed as having a medium or long-range air search radar. In other words, they're virtually useless for air defense. All those missile tubes too . . .
2) VLS Cells never carry reloads (the whole point is that they're not needed with VLS), so there should be only one missile per cell. With smaller missiles, more could be loaded in a single cell, but nominally it's only good for one. My advice: just admit twice as many cells.
3) Similarly, quad launchers for large missiles are never reloaded. You have three choices there. Admit only 4 missiles per launcher, have it as VLS, or use the old single or twin-rail pop-up launcher with a below-decks magazine (examples would be the launching system on an Oliver Hazard Perry Frigate or Virginia Cruiser).
4) Some information on the missiles might be useful, as they're not RL ones.

We'll start with the 650,000 ton battleship. Such a ship is not only almost impossible to build, but impossible to use, and as the first thing listed, is going to send anyone who knows squat packing. Imagine the size of that thing, and the draft. It wouldn't be able to get close enough to shore to be useful, and it would even have to be built offshore. I would suggest knocking it down to no more than 150,000 tons, and preferably less than that. With that, the armament should be no more than 15 22" guns, preferably 12 with all the extra armament and hangar space. Cost is astronomical (working with titanium here). I'd say at least $12 billion for a 150,000 ton ship, and a 650,000 tonner would be well over $40 billion.


OOC: You jumped me to the guns there. Another thing to note is that quad turrets tend to be very inefficient ROFwise, presumably due to the cramped interior.

Its times like these Im glad Im doing maritime design at Uni :)

Ill quite happily answer your queries, though I must ask you to check the size comparison first.

I will admit some of the errors are mine. I must also say that the stats lists are from my general battleship lists, which get updated infrequently, and it appears they haven't come out as planned in my haste to launch a storefront. However, I must point I will rectify some of these problems such as the lack of long distance anti-aircraft radar.

Hopefully the sizecomp will solve some problems, remember the Leviathan and Centaur are Trimirans.

edit: www.geocities.com/jimmymac6662002/sizecomp.gif is the size comp for ALL of my designed fleet ships. Some are older style designs, built to give an aged feel to my navy. Im looking for my general fleet list somewhere.

Its times like these Im glad Im doing maritime design at Uni :)

Well, that would explain it, wouldn't it? Do you draw these from scratch?

(that light carrier also is looking really good about now)

Generally yes, they are drawn form scratch, although some inspiration is taken from real life designs.

Formidable is based on the invincible class, although slightly larger. The Broadsword has its origins in the French "Lafayette class".

The reason the Leviathan is so large is baecvause at that size, roughly five hundred metres or so, and atri-hull to nboot, it will have to have not just a heavy frame, but also a massive internal frame to support the vessel and the main weapons. The increase in the material weight of the frame as well the basic hull is what causes the exponential increase in hull size. Building boats this big isnt that new. There are several 400,000 ton + ships in existence, bodering half a kilometre long, and most major shipyards would not struggle to produce a million ton ship if need be.

Costs are slightly underpriced, I will agree, although I was factoring in economies of scale. Infortmation of indigenous weapons was going to be provided on request (yes, they should be in a list, but time is kinda scarce right now.) I will change the prices at some point, when time allows me.

Other points to note. Four gun turrets..with automatic reload systems are not too cumbersome to operate, if slightly slow to turn.. The leviathan was built as a trimiran, which both provides much increased stability and deck area in which to house secondary weapons. This massive increase in displaced hull also keeps the draft relatively low.

Generally yes, they are drawn form scratch, although some inspiration is taken from real life designs.

Formidable is based on the invincible class, although slightly larger. The Broadsword has its origins in the French "Lafayette class".

The reason the Leviathan is so large is baecvause at that size, roughly five hundred metres or so, and atri-hull to nboot, it will have to have not just a heavy frame, but also a massive internal frame to support the vessel and the main weapons. The increase in the material weight of the frame as well the basic hull is what causes the exponential increase in hull size. Building boats this big isnt that new. There are several 400,000 ton + ships in existence, bodering half a kilometre long, and most major shipyards would not struggle to produce a million ton ship if need be.

Costs are slightly underpriced, I will agree, although I was factoring in economies of scale. Infortmation of indigenous weapons was going to be provided on request (yes, they should be in a list, but time is kinda scarce right now.) I will change the prices at some point, when time allows me.

Other points to note. Four gun turrets..with automatic reload systems are not too cumbersome to operate, if slightly slow to turn.. The leviathan was built as a trimiran, which both provides much increased stability and deck area in which to house secondary weapons. This massive increase in displaced hull also keeps the draft relatively low.
To my knowledge, there are no ships that displace 500,000 tons UNLOADED. That is quite a bit different from something that weighs that much loaded, but is only a bare fraction of the weight when empty, and IIRC, ULCCs cannot enter harbors when loaded, and have to be loaded and unloaded by shuttle vessels outside the harbor.
In perspective, a 493,400 dwt ULCC displaces 68,500 tons empty, with over 86% of the displacement in dwt (this is actually among the less efficient ones. Most are 88-90% in dwt). A <60,000 ton Iowa displaces over 40,000 tons empty, meaning mabye 30%, and probably less, of the displacement is in dwt. Thus, while a 500,000 ton ULCC would weigh less than 70,000 tons coming out of the harbor, a 500,000 ton battleship would displace closer to 350,000 tons, or 5 times as much. That's a rather big difference, and that is why the battleship is still beyond what can be done.
The lack of utility is also still there. Most ULCCs have a maximum draft of twice that of any modern warship that's ever set sail. A battleship with that kind of draft can't be placed in a dock, and has to stay a good distance from shore. Clearly there are problems. If you use a trimaran design to decrease the draft, you're increasing beam significantly, which can be just as bad (can't go through canals, channels, or enter many ports by virtue of width), and you're still going to have a very deep draft.

The battleship's not impossible to build, but to think it would be anywhere near as easy as you seem to be suggesting is a big mistake. However, main problem is again in utility. Only someone who's gone through the massive undertaking of either building a station at sea or a military harbor that can accommodate such a behemoth would have any reason to even consider such a vessel. Most people look at previous military designs, and do not have such facilities (they'd be far too costly for their utility anyway). And those that do have such facilities will see it as much easier to get a much smaller and more useful unit.

Though I think you should drop it completely, I would at least suggest putting something a little more down to earth on top, as like I said, it's the main reason you're not getting customers.

Not a one of those links worked for me.

It is very difficult without seeing the merchandise.

Could you fix the links?

The links are fine. Geocities does not allow hotlinking, you need to copy and paste.

The links are fine. Geocities does not allow hotlinking, you need to copy and paste.

At 1:15 am, after working a 12 hour shift and being up for about 18 hours, one forgets little details like that. :D

hehe

I will take:

8 Invicible class carriers
20 Escort frigates

Money will be wired now.

*money wired*

Ill take 3 Invincible class carriers, money wired on confermation, they look to be fine ships! Also a tag to buy more later

Aanmericaa, weren't you deleted a couple days ago on Aamericaa?

2x Leviathan Class Please, thankyou
A total of 16 billion i beleive, wired upon transaction completion

Aanamerica: I think you're a bit too young country wise to be able to afford all that. Please readjust you're order. At best you would be able to afford about $1 billion worth at stuff, and even that would require anational debt :S sorry

Breetonia: Im not sure if you could support the purchase cost of two of these ships. (Thinking about operating cost and the like.) We believe you could support one at this particular point in time, and in two RL weeks you would be probably be able to support another one. So Delivery time is two RL weeks, payment is expected upon delivery.

War_in_heaven: Order confirmed, construction complete in six RL days (6 NS years)