NationStates Jolt Archive

Nuclear weapons have become the standard weapons used to enforce MAD, and they are the most feared of all battle weapons. Only the largest target or most hardened bunker can survive a direct nuclear hit, thus making them the most powerful weapons avalible. The truth today is that disarmerment is not an option, to many groups are willing to use nuclear weapons on tagets if their opponents cannot strike back in a similar manner. However the cost of maintian massive nuclear arsenals can strain even the largest budgets, especially those of medium sized nations like Scellia. Due to recent advances and large expenditures in the developement of weapons systems Scellia believes that it is possible to create Gigaton-class nuclear weapons. A single gigaton weapons can replace up to ten of the older megaton class, for near the same price. We don't however have the nessesary budget to fully develope them despite the cost saving and preresearch qualities of the program.

Scellia needs a developement partner, or partners, to help create gigaton-class nuclear weapons.

NOTE: Scellia does not condone or support nuclear proliferation and/or terrorism, we will only take on partners that we feel are responsible AND already have a firm nuclear missile system in place.

OOC: I just approved the orbital weapons Issue so I figure I ought to get something out of it. Please, if you don't like proliferation I'M NOT, these people will already have nuclear weapons.

The Gigaton-class nuclear weapon seems to be an attractive alternative...but has anyone ever thought about my "Typ 418b SDR"? This class of sonic disruptor missile causes extensive damage to a clearly shaped area and without leaving back radioactive contamination...

our country would like to have a WMD's program but we have certain treatys that forbid it so if we were to have a weapon it would have to be a black opp and no one would be allowed to know it

Unfortunately both of you are too young to have a nuclear weapons program, Scellia does not want to proliferate nuclear weapons, especially gigaton-class. Also neither of you have the nessesary resources to help in a signifcant manner.

OOC: It is generally accepted that you need 100 Million pop or be a month old before having WMD's. Your GDP's cannot make much of a impact on a total program.

Unfortunately both of you are too young to have a nuclear weapons program, Scellia does not want to proliferate nuclear weapons, especially gigaton-class. Also neither of you have the nessesary resources to help in a signifcant manner.

OOC: It is generally accepted that you need 100 Million pop or be a month old before having WMD's. Your GDP's cannot make much of a impact on a total program.

OOC: A gigaton is horrific overkill. You know that right?

OOC:
I can remember watching a TV show about the earth beign hit by a big asteroid. Up until the late 80s/ealy 90s the defense mechanism of chocie was a single 100 gigaton nuke (the nuclear physiacists had apparently calculated that one was possible) of course they never biult one as it would be more dangerous to the earth than the asteroid...

So it should be doable

Personbally i don't use nukes (i keep a couple in back up just incase though) and would rahter use a small tactical scale nuke as a demonstration rahter than just leveling things.

We put most of our orbital weapons funds into lasers and satellite mounted interceptor missiles ;)

IC:
THe Kingdom of Crookfur would be willing to provide funding support if merely for the prospect of pushign the boundaries of what is possible (and the ability to say, you may have hundreds of nukes but we have hundreds of BIG nukes).

(It would have to be a bomb rather than a missile due to the size, and won't be as effective as 10x 100 Megaton bombs)

Scellia is very happy ot have attracted the attention of a major power such as Crookfur, and the funding and research benefits will be enourmus. We will share all our findings with you, of course, and with this new influx of info and resources are making headway.

OOC:
Crookfur: I'm thinking about satellites as well, as I said I got the orbital weapons thing so I figure that I should add them to my repitoire.
Eredron: Not really, you can annihlate an entire nation with one or two bombs. Much cheaper then tens or hundreds.
_Taiwan: No it won't, but it will cost as much as 2 100 Megaton bombs so you can have 5 for the same cost.

Eredron: Not really, you can annihlate an entire nation with one or two bombs. Much cheaper then tens or hundreds.


And that isn't overkill?

Our nation would like to join your project, if you believe that our nation is capable of it:

Population: 91,000,000
Civil Rights: Some
Economy: Powerhouse
GDP per Capita: $25,000
GDP: $2,275,000,000,000
National Budget: $699,862,800,000

Percentage of GDP Spent on Defense: 5%
Percentage of Budget Spent on Defense: 16.25%
Military Budget: $113,750,000,000

Scellia acknowledges your fiscal capability however your nation has no nuclear weapons program as of yet. In a few years perhaps but now you don't have the technical knowledge to be of help.

OOC: I go by the generally accepted terms that you have to have 100 million pop before nukes, plus I haven't got a handle on how you act yet. I don't want terrorist nations running around with weapons that could destroy entire continents.

I have already started a nuclear program along with other nations.
I´ve got the uranium required, I already have nuclear power plant to enrich uranium, I have the money. I have also started a space program that will be of great help when it comes to missile development. If I haven't convinced you yet, maybe I can join your programm when I get to 100 million population.

I have already started a nuclear program along with other nations.
I´ve got the uranium required, I already have nuclear power plant to enrich uranium, I have the money. I have also started a space program that will be of great help when it comes to missile development. If I haven't convinced you yet, maybe I can join your programm when I get to 100 million population.

dp

Dontgonearthere is interested, but requests the following information.

What advantages does this system have over, say, a singularity generator, or very large laser?
After all, both cause about the same amount of destruction, the singularity generator makes things very small, the laser makes things very small as well, but spreads them out more.
Both cost about G1,000,000,000 more than a nuke, but are reusable.

Friyusistan: We look forward to the day that you reach the nessesary expertise, then we shall re-evaluate our decsion.

Dontgonearthere: Because the Gigaton-class is not future tech, a modern nation can use them because it is easily concievable in the next five or so years a gigaton nuclear weapon could be used. The current US government has looked into these weapons. For a future tech nation the products of this could be a 10's to 100's gigaton nuclear weapon, a planet cracker. That is the advantage for a future tech nation, cheap planet buster.

OOC: *sniff-sniff* I smell the next Ubercaust in the making. Forget 5200 megaton class nukes... lets just use 52 Gigaton class!

Apart from the question of what you would use a gigaton-scale nuclear weapon for, the exercise of making not just a one-gigaton device, but a practical one-gigaton device may produce advances in miniaturization that the Dominion would find useful. We wish to contribute to this project.

where in hell would you test such a thing? :?

You know... That is not something I'd thought of. :shock:

Ancient Terra would like to lend our expertise to this matter. There is a far more practical way to design a 1-gigaton nuke, using theoretical (but currently possible) technology. We designed a mock-up of our "Nova" Tritium-Core Nuclear Weapon more than 5 years ago.

The "Nova" is essentially a cluster of three 10-megaton weapons, arranged in a triad. The cluster of nukes is held within an extremely strong casing, which resists the force of the nuclear detonation for a split second, giving the second component time enough to go to work. The second component is a ball of Lithium Triteride, placed in the center of the cluster of nukes. When the three nukes go off simultaneously, the Lithium Triteride is compressed into an incredibly small volume. Its subsequent expansion can theoretically number in the gigatons, making it a "Planet Killer". The "Nova" would be an excellent way to construct a 1-Gigaton Nuclear Weapon, without requiring extremely large missile boosters. The weapon could also be near-future tech, as the technology required to undertake this endeavor is already here (albeit expensive...)

The good thing about physics is that sometimes you don't have to test things. Case in point, it was proven that black holes must exist by pure mathematics - and this was well before John Wheeler ever coined the phrase black hole.

OOC: Have you given any thought to the fact that this weapon will have devastating effects on not only the nation it is used against, but also against innocent neighbors, and on a much larger scale?

This might call for an IC response from me.

OOC: Have you given any thought to the fact that, no matter how many nukes are slung around in any of the various world wars, we always come through in one piece? :?

Iuthia personnal feels that making a more powerful nuclear weapons is a great way for a nation to waste it's resources.

Personally we don't have any WMD, but instead a reasonable post modern tech NAFDA system capable making such weapons highly ineffective against our nation. As most nuclear devices would be destroyed...

The main issues that we can see with this device are the use of such a device and the cost of making one which worked efficiently...

Firstly, nuclear weapons don't have to be more powerful for Mutually Assured Destruction, they are tactical weapons and most of them will be fired to take out other facilities in a attempt to stop others from firing... it would be better to design a weapon that dug into it's target first and then went off then to have a more powerful (and horrific) bomb.

Nuclear weapons alone kind of defeat the point of war as war is most often used to make your enemy do something, not to destroy them...

Personally we got rid of ours because they just aren't worth having if we have a defences against other such devices.

Secondly I can't see that having less bombs with a high wield is going to help in modern tactics, as most nations have a SDI defence system to protect their nations, if you replace ten missiles for one large missle it should be easier to stop a few missles then alot of smaller missles.



Of course, I only say this because I'm against WMD in principal... but I see this as a waste.

OOC: I'll have to look into the actually physics of this some time, but I should point out that most of the U.S.A and Russias bombs are within the regions of 600-900 kilotons in yield.

I'm not sure about 1000 Megatons yield but I've sure I've heard somewhere that extra yield becomes pointless after a while... of course, I'd have to read up on it. But I've always seen 150 Megaton bombs as too much, a Gigaton is getting insane...

We are interested we already have a huge WMD weapons program but we are willing to try this one we will like to purchase one please.money wired on confirmation.

:lol:

The Dominion is approaching this as a purely academic exercise, without any intention to build an actual One Gigaton device. The exercise is aimed purely at determining how far miniaturization of nuclear-based WMDs can be pushed. This would allow us to make our existing tactical and strategic devices smaller. Everything Iuthia has stated about the uselessness of a One-Gigaton Device in practice is something the Dominion has considered. Rather, we are interested in the miniaturization advances to be had.

Muktar's nuclear warhead is the most effecient nuclear warhead to end a war: a disarmed warhead. Peace!

Iuthia: Thus stealth aircraft will become the new standard delivery system. Also a don't suggest using these weapons, in fact they may guareentee that a nation will not use nukes at all. Now it takes hindreds of warheads making it through a missile shield, some might take this to be an equitable risk. Now only one missile or bomber needs make it, plus it will be cheaper to maintain. It seems likely that an entire bomber will be needed to deliver one system, and it will be unable to missile delivered.

Eredron: OOC: If a neighbor nation doesn't want to be affected it doesn't need to be. Plus nation sizes have always been fluid.

The Atheists Reality: We have a choice peice of real estate comprised of old nations that have died. OOC: The NS world is something like the size of Juptier to have at least 600,000 US sized nations.

NOTE: I will be coming up with a list of benefactors soon.

(The Russians detonated a 65 megaton Hydrogen/FFF Bomb in the 60s, also it'll have to be a pretty big bomber)

The Republic of China is interested in procurement of production rights once the project is completed, and also wishes to assist financially.

Project Leader: Scellia


Project Financial/Experience Nations:
_Taiwan
Kotterdam
Ancient and Holy Terra
Crookfur

Testing Ground: Homer Simpson1987

From: HOmer Simpson1987

To:Scellia
You won't sell me nukes, I responded by having my Ohio class subs nuke you. At 10:05 P.m. EST, 288 nuclear warheads from a single sub destroyed your nation. I am prepared to order my other 10 to release their total of 2880 nukes.

END


This nation has kindly volunteered to be the testing site for this project, the first test (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=129117&start=20) of this weapon was concluded there, see bottom of page for test. More tests and updates are on the way.

Scellian officials estimate that another test make take place in 4-6 Months, we expect that this weapons will have a higher yield. We still can use help in developing this weapon, so nations are still welcome to participate.

we would be happy to help as we have found huge uranium deposites and have developed nuclear weapons capable of just one of them can make a nation inhospitable and silence any nation that attacks us

Second test of Gigaton Nuclear Weapons!!!

http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2002/04/18/asteroid372.jpg

Yield: 1.1 Gigatons
Crater Size: 195 Miles Across/4 Miles Deep

Radiation Levels

3,000 Rem
Distance: 60 miles
Much more than a lethal dose of radiation. Death can occur within hours of exposure. About 10 years will need to pass before levels of radioactivity in this area drop low enough to be considered safe, by U.S. peacetime standards.

900 Rem
Distance: 180 miles
A lethal dose of radiation. Death occurs from two to fourteen days.

300 Rem
Distance: 300 miles
Causes extensive internal damage, including harm to nerve cells and the cells that line the digestive tract, and results in a loss of white blood cells. Temporary hair loss is another.

90 Rem
Distance: 1700 miles
Causes a temporary decrease in white blood cells, although there are no immediate harmful effects. Two to three years will need to pass before radioactivity levels in this area drop low enough to be considered safe, by U.S. peacetime standards.

AFTERMATH

http://www.barringercrater.com/img/indexcrater.jpg


The radiation was significantly higher in the interior of the bomb blast, showning that the ignition causes more radiation then the later stages. Except for centeral area's radiation is expected to dissapate by 2-3 years.



Note: Scientist feel that the maximum yield possible is being achieved, only an increase of 200-300 Megatons are expected for future tests. After that we will be downsizing the bomb, project goals will be complete when bomb can fit into a B-52/EB-52/EB-1C.

Ancient Terra applauds the success of this weapons project, and hopes that no mortal being shall ever have to face the wrath of this weapon.

~Sea Dragons Inc., Terran Thinktank~

OOC: Fixed broken pic above.

FINAL TEST: SYSTEM READY


http://www.zvis.com/images/nuks/ivymike3.jpg


Yield: 1.25 Gigatons

Radiation: SEE ABOVE POST

Crater: SEE ABOVE POST

http://www2.bc.edu/~sullivxm/wolf.jpg


Size and Delivery Systems

Weight: 35,000 lbs.
Bombers able to Deliver Bomb: B-52/EB-52/EB-1C/Flame Fortress or similar bomber.
Individual Bomb Cost: $100,000,000

NOTE: Each Bomber may only carry one device due to large bomb size, the standard B-1B and B-2 are too small to carry the bomb.

Packages:

Bomb Package
10 Gigaton Nuclear Bombs
Cost: $1,000,000,000

Stealth Bomber Package
5 EB-52 Megafortress'
5 Gigaton Nuclear Bombs
Cost: $10,500,000,000

Advanced Stealth Bomber Package
5 EB-1C Megafortress II's
5 Gigaton Nuclear Bombs
Cost: $13,000,000,000

Satellite Delivery Package
1 Flame Fortress Satellite
3 Gigaton Nuclear Bombs
Cost: $5,000,000,000

Scellian Advanced Systems Storefront (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=124155) for EB-52/EB-1C stats.

The truth today is that disarmerment is not an option

Disarmanent IS an option. Only through unilateral disarmament can we achieve multinational disarmament. If you think negatively then we shall never live in peace.

NOTE: Only nations helping to create this project will be given weapons, or have over 500 Million pop.

Disarmanent IS an option. Only through unilateral disarmament can we achieve multinational disarmament. If you think negatively then we shall never live in peace.

Only if everyone does it, and that is not likely to happen. If anything terrorist states will keep them and so will militarily small nations.

OOC: The NOTE may seem hypocritical, seeing as I am only 188, but I don't want these weapons to fall into the wrong hands. That means that only nations invested in this game will get them. Also all nations participating have been transmitted plans for the bomb.

(ooc: Nice to see another fan of Dale Brown and the ABF Aircraft...I'd just like to note that I'm currently developing the AB-52 Dragon ABL aircraft and the Stealthhawk...of course, seeing how we're development partners, we have no problem with joint-projects.)

IC:

Terra would once again like to congratulate the other members of this development project, and wishes them luck in their future endeavours.

OOC: I have the Flighthawk, but I equated it to the Stealthhawk so they are essentially the same UCAV. Do you want a package seeing as you just put a lot of money into the program.

We would like to also have the whole isolated tundra of southern eriopia be tested on plus we would like one ADVANCED STEALH BOMBER PACKAGE please.money wired on confirmation.

General Zhang of the ROCA claps in appreciation while watching footage of the tests.

(ooc: Thank you for the offer, however we only lent our expertise to the matter, and using the data from your tests were able to finally bring the "Nova" 1-gigaton nuke online. Although not as powerful as yours, it will do quite nicely.

Stealthhawk does seem to be rather like Flighthawk. What was different with it...range? Carrying capacity? They were both stealthy, IIRC.)

OOC: About the same, one was slightly stealthier.

Order confirmed, $13,000,000,000 received.

thank you scellia money wired.

OOC: Do you realise that the blast from a weapon this big would throw large amounts of radioactive material into the upper atmosphere and winds will carry it around the world? Not to mention dust, etc. thrown up there will also absorb the sunlight?

oh welll that the enemys problem.

(ooc: Not to mention that, if we actually took such realistic factors into account, the world would have already been cracked in half from the thousands of nuclear launches conducted daily. :?)

whoa that is interesting well atleast those on my space stations will be alive.

people just never seem to realise what a nuke will actually do these days

OOC: well it all depends on how you view the NS world,in some cases you could estimate it as being soemthing silly like 100,000 to 1 million times the size of the Rl earth...

IC: The Crookfur observers great the completion of the project with much satisfaction and thank the Scellian team for thier efforts and the plans.

Now we must begin looking at harnessing this power in 2 different bombs:
a 20,000-30,000pound system for use with our super vulcans and B-2 Spirits (ie the vulcans can carry 1 each, they can handle 40,000lbs but don't have the room and the B-2s could handle 2), and a 10,000-15,000lb varient for our B-71Xs (just a blatent excuse to dig them up again).

OOC: The reason the B-2 etc. can't carry the bomb is it is so physically large, not nessesarily to heavy.

IC: Scellia awaits your results but our total testing says that the power of the device would have to be decreased by 400-800 Megatons to fit inside those aircraft. Do you wish to purchase any package instead, the EB-52 and EB-1C are both more stealthy then the B-2 and both can carry the full sized bomb.

oh welll that the enemys problem.

Sure, until all of your agriculture dies from lack of sunlight and radioactive dust/rain falls on your cities. lol

OOC: well it all depends on how you view the NS world,in some cases you could estimate it as being soemthing silly like 100,000 to 1 million times the size of the Rl earth..

OOC: Well, i don't believe in that. The way i see it, we only interact with a few of the nations out there anyway, so if we ignore the ones we dont talk to, the NS world could be earth sized.

OOC: The reason the B-2 etc. can't carry the bomb is it is so physically large, not nessesarily to heavy.

IC: Scellia awaits your results but our total testing says that the power of the device would have to be decreased by 400-800 Megatons to fit inside those aircraft. Do you wish to purchase any package instead, the EB-52 and EB-1C are both more stealthy then the B-2 and both can carry the full sized bomb.

OOC: well i guessed that, based on soem very rough (and likely very wrong) estiamtions the B2 bays are roughly the size of the single bay on the Super Vulcan so a smaller bomb to serve with the 2 classes would be our requirement.


IC: We have to respectfully decline pruchasing any package units our current political sistuation prevents the pruchasing of any new Bomber forces.


We have a test of a smaller bomb in the 600-750Megaton rnage scheduled for alter on in the week.

The ROCA has sent a letter of congratulations to Sciella for the joint project, and has sent an order for a bomb package, with neccesary costs ($1bn) wired on confirmation.

Confirmed, thanks for your order.

IC:


After much delay and numerous revisions to the program Crookfur are pround to announce the completion of 3 weapons systems derived from the project:

The BUn-56: a bomb system design specifically to fit into the weapon bay of our Super Vulcan bomber and the bays of B-2 bombers, yeild is rated at 710megatons.

BUn-58: Specially designed for deployment from Crookfur B-71X super sonic bombers, yeild is rated at 340megatons

WHn-92: Small scale weapons designed for deployment from MIRV systems, yeild is roughly equal to 70megatons


At 09:00 this morning 3 serperate detonations were carried out within Crookfur under ground testing facilities to provide final acceptance proving of all 3 warheads. All tests passed without incident and final yeilds are inline with calculated estimates.


All plans and techincal details are being passed to other nations with interests in the project.