NationStates Jolt Archive

Oshima Arms Industries is interested in developing a MBT suitable for indigenous construction. As this is our first such venture, we are interested in obtaining foreign aid and assistance.

We would be especially interested in organising a joint project with other nations seeking to develop their own armaments industries.

I would like to inquire more about this joint-venture project. I would be willing to put forth 1.0 Billion Rubles to this project.

Your interest is greatly appreciated.

The current concept is the design of a modern MBT with 120mm+ main armament and armour adequate to deal with most standard battlefield threats.

The possibilities under consideration at present include reverse engineering and improving an existing design, using an existing vehicle as the basis for a totally new product or simply working a new design up from scratch.

Our nation has conducted research into combustion engines powered with sugar-alcohol fuels and at present we have a scientific exchange with the government of Kazakhstania concerning their hydrogen fule power plants.

At present we do not have experience with the modern armour or high performance cannon needed to complete the project, and so are especially keen to find other partners with acces to either.

Aside from that, any suggestions you have are most welcome.

http://com3.runboard.com/bnationstatesforum
May we interest you in one of GLACORPS fine tanks? Or a design based on one?
I am assuming your futuretech since you wanted a space fleet earlier, so we can offer you EMG guns, quite effective on infantry and light targets, as well as heavy tanks and bunkers if you have enough of them.

Kihameria would be willing to support this project,please send us some information and details about what youre plan is,and we will decied if we should support it or not.
please send us the following information in a telegram:what tech is it ?(modern,future,pre-modern,post-modern,etc.) will it be a heavy,medium,or light tank ? will it be amphibious,or not ? will it be a pure combat tank,or will it have APC capabilities ?
we are very interested in this project,please send us the planned information as soon as possible. thank you.

Perhaps a variant of the Kilean "Cougar" MBT?

http://mercury.operationcitadel.net/~matthias/nationstates/img/cougar.jpg


Type: Heavy MBT
Designation: Pcz Mk. IV Cougar.
Weight: 81 tons

Engine: A large, powerful turbine engine propels the Cougar. Although a break from previous tank engines Kilean has used, the turbine (made by Ostendt Motorfabrik Gmbh) because only it’s sheer power could propell the massive bulk of the Cougar. It is a more advanced and efficient model than the M-1 Abram’s 1960’s tech turbine engine. However, the power requirements basically nullify the efficiency, giving the Cougar terrible mileage- .4 miles to the gallon. The turbine engine-through an advanced automatic transmission that gives the Cougar great poor-terrain ability- drives the Cougars wide treads, needed to insure that it doesn’t bog down in muddy terrain. Although it can make some 40mph on roadways or hard-packed ground, it can only really hope for a 30mph speed on any sort of rough terrain, and even that carries a dangerous threat of jumping tracks very easily.

Crew: 4- commander, gunner, driver, radioman

Armor: Armor is where the Cougar really shines. The front glacis plate, side panels, and turret frontal armor have depleted uranium inserts sandwiched between armor-grade steel plating to the outside, and deforming composite-based anti spalling armor within. The main body frame is reinforced in places with tungsten alloy/composite struts, and the entire interior of the tank is lined with Kevlar anti-spalling fabric sheets. The top and side armor is designed to “pop outwards” in case of a catastrophic hit to the front of the tank- similar to how the hood deforms to absorb impact in many modern cars- and the ammo bays are designed to blow out backwards. In addition, the crew hatches are fitted with explosive bolts to allow rapid crew escape if the tank is hit. A sophisticated firefighting system is also included, along with anti-gas filters and lead-foamed inserts (an idea copied from the soviet T-72) that give the Cougar the excellent NBC protection standard in all Kilean tanks. This is all in addition to good old-fashioned armor, which the Cougar has in spades, angled to greatest effect.

Armament: The cougar is armed with a 120mm Kilean Waffenwerke smoothbore long-barreled cannon. High muzzle velocity is the main killer with this fearsome weapon. The gun is auto-stabilized for full fire-on-move ability, and is tied in to the commander’s laser/IR range finding& targeting system. Combat load is some 85 rounds, usually an even mixture of APFSDS, HEAT, HE. Secondary armament consists of an MG-87 mounted on the drivers hatch, and a 14mm heavy machinegun mounted on the commanders coupla


Electronics: The Cougar is equipped with the standard KLM radio suite, for full integration with all Kilean units. In addition, it sports a reduced, local version of the Etronian BattleLAN. This system allows tanks to have access to data on their platoon mates- fuel levels, ammunition, battle damage, etc. Night vision/IR is available for all crew members. The gun is aimed using a computer controlled laser-range finding system. There is also a milimeter-wave radar, although this is never really used for aiming the main gun, as it is mostly used by the “firework” system.

The “firework’ antimissile system is similar to the dazzler systems mounted on US helicopters. It appears as a small dome on top of the turret. It uses milimeter-wave radar to detect incoming antitank missiles, and directs a medium-powered laser to “dazzle” the seeker heads of the missiles, disrupting their lock. It is somewhat effective, although by no means a foolproof countermeasure. It is high-upkeep, and it is nowhere near as effective in foggy or rainy weather. It is also useless against non-optical/IR or unguided antitank missiles.

The Cougar has entered into service with some armored units of the “first four”, but is a long ways from any sort of significant operational capacity. It may, in the end, not totally replace the T-72aust.k, due to its expense, high-upkeep systems, and poor fuel efficiency.


_____________________________________________________________

Perhaps a more balanced tank based off of the Cougar? Kilean itself has some misgivings about the huge weight and large logistical footprint of the MBT.

Many thanks to all recent replies.

Kihameria: are proposal is for a medium weight, GP MBT (40-60 metric ton range), 120+ mm main armament. Tech level: contemporary (perhaps early post modern)

Must be capable of self-sealed deep-water wading (though dedicated amphib capability not required)

A recent requirement: chassis must be suitable for conversion, i.e. SP artillery/air defence systems, heavy IFV (as with Ukraine's BTRM-84, and the Russian T-55/62 conversions).

We have technology for a suitable powerplant- with minimal adjustment can run on kerosene, diesel, standard gas, alcohol/pertol mix or pure sugar-alcohol with minimal adjustments (though performance is lower with last)

Kilean: A suggestion:

How about a 60 ton variant- less armour, same weapon, new powerplant.

Alternatively- modified cougar turret (less armour, provision for auto-loader) on new chassis? It seems to me a front mounted engine (a la Merkava) would be more suitable for SP/HIFV conversions.

Please respond with comments/thoughts

Oshama Izu i would be interested in joiningg your venture as an active small arms manafacturer (OOC:In keeping within good Role Playing).

In your statistical analysis you had a want for a water tight vehicle. I suggest you base your tank therefore on the Leopard 2 and throwing in some Tech from tanks such as the French Leclerc and British Challenger 2. The Newer Leopard 2's sport 120mm L55 guns and better fire control and do not rely as much on Computer Tech as the M1 or Challenger 2's. The T-80 and T-90's are worth taking a look at aswell and as for modular systems well smeone else can help you.

It would be a rather simple manner to strip the Cougar of a good deal of it's armor, bringing it's protection from "obscene" to "normal" levels. This would have the side effect of increasing speed and fuel efficency.

Can I give my tank for testing?

M-42 Ultra Heavy Battle Tank

http://venus.walagata.com/w/woodhall/sshot030.JPG

Design

Created to be the best tank in the world from the start, this has been a very ambitious project. We have designed this both for export to make a hopefully huge profit and to give Kazakhstania a brand new main battle tank with which to challenge all tanks in the world.

Created in mind with a Huge Arnament, large amounts of Armor and a Huge Engine, this tank is the best of the best and the best of what Kazakhstania has to offer. We have covered most of our goals, and will continue to give huge amounts of technology in the future to upgrades.

Purely designed with both careful advance and heavy defence in minds. The shell of the tank is large a heavy, designed to look undestroyable and cast low morale when one appears. The design involves deflective surfaces and a fairly large profile. It is huge enough to contain most of what is needed inside the tank.

The turret is the most important part of the vehicle. Filled with the huge cannon, various automated co-arnaments and the huge autoloader. Also contained are various electronic devices, and the FCS and JTIDS systems. On top are the laser defence and jammer systems.

The interior of the tank is very cramped. The huge engine, large amount of armor and overhead cannon take up large amounts of room. This leaves little space for the crewmembers. They are located in the front of the tank, all three of them. The roles of the crew are very different, however.

The driver automates the engine systems, and of course, drives with the computer aided manoeuvre system. The commander works the computer systems and assigns targets. The gunner uses the large cannon and various weapons subsystems. These jobs are made easy by the various MFD’s in the cockpits. The crew are allowed to see via the 360-degree cameras on the roof.

On the turret roof, many systems are found. These include the multifunction module. This small tower contains the Anti Missile Laser system, two cameras and jammers. Also on top are the driver’s camera, back up electronic periscope and various sensors. This allows the tank to move even with several sensors down.

The armor of this tank is in huge quantity and unique design. It is based in several layers. These include: Firstly, an outer layer of Kazakh 4th Generation Non Explosive Deflective Armor. This is unique ERA, essentially. Then, a layer of Titanium in an Epoxy Resin Honeycomb. Thirdly, a layer of Tungsten, and an inner layer of Steel. This is overall almost 800mm thick.

Systems

The most important part of this tank is its systems. These include the latest generation electronics, firing systems and comms systems. This allows the tank to see, aim and shoot before the target reacts. This allows the tank to take out anything before it reacts. This is a unique system.

Firstly, the most important part of all our electronics is JTIDS, Joint Tactical Information Distribution System. This system allows the information of enemy placements to be passed on to all friendly units, to their JTIDS systems. It also allows for the gun to be aimed by other units, via the Fire Control System. This and the most advanced system of it’s kind.

The fire control system is brand new. As long as the gunner designates the target, the gun auto aligns, modifies its aim for distance and wind, before firing. This is a fast and easy system, and ties in with the JTIDS system via links in electronics,. They are essentially almost the same program, and in later versions will be a single program in future upgrades.

The camera system in the tank is for the whole crew. Indeed, the driver has his own camera, as does the Commander and Gunner. These cameras are 360-degree aimers. This allows the crew to have total battlefield awareness, and takes away the need for periscopes. The camera’s view is displayed on the crew TV screens. There are night vision systems for both the Commander and Gunner, including IR sights for the gunner.

The engine autonomy system automates the direction of the tread travelling, based on the direction the driver wants to get to. It turns and accelerates on instruction, but also takes into account slope, pitch etc. This computer saves fuel and means added speed.

Also in the vehicle are minor features like Environment control, Air control and fuel efficiency. All this is included, and allows the tank to be the best electronic tank in the world.

Forsazh = Afterburners

Armament

The armament on this tank is huge. The main armament is Kazakhstania’s new Kazakh-155UB gun. This is an 155mm Electro Thermal Chemical Cannon, fitted on the M-22UM1 Tank Destroyer and this tank. It is the most powerful tank gun in the world, ever. This gun can pierce any tank armor on earth, and fire a huge variety of shells.

These shells include SABOT, HEAT, HE, HE-FRAG and Tungsten Splinter Shells. This supplies the main tank gun with huge versatility, and means the tank can engage almost every tank in the world. This gun is the cutting edge of ETC technology. The barrel is roughly 48-52 calibers long, and uses outstanding accuracy.

Various secondary arnaments include a Co-Axial 30mm SuperShot Cannon, a Co-Axial 12.7mm Machine Gun and the turret arnaments. The one turret top arnament is a 35mm Automatic Grenade Launcher. This combination of arnaments allow huge capability for a wide variety of roles. We are proud of the unexpected versatility of the vehicle.

The defensive arnaments include our Turret Top Anti-Missile Laser System, Two turret top flare dispensers on either side, and 16 Smoke Grenade Dispensers. On the turret top in two double missile launcher tubes (not in pic) are four Igla-SKZ SAM missiles, two to each tube. These are on hydraulic lifts, for elevation. Finally, there are two Kornet ATGM pods, each containing 4 missiles. This defensive arnament is hard to get through.

We hope you enjoy our tank, so thanks for reading!

Crew: 3
Weight: 110 tons
Engine: 1,900 hp liquid nitrogen cooled hydrogen
Transmission: Digital
Track: Rubber Hi-Grip Coated Tracks, Road Wheels
Suspension: Liquid Distrution, Computer Managed
Radio: JTIDS, Short Range Radar, Satellite Comms
Dimension: Length: 11.00 m; Height: 3.30 m; Width: 3.70
Cruising Range: 590 km
Speed: Max road 54 km/h; max off-road 39 km/h; average cross-country 25 km/h
Main Gun: Kazakh-155UB 155 mm ETC
Rate of Fire: 9 rounds/min
Co-Arnament: 30mm SuperShot Cannon
Auxiliary Weapon: One coaxial 12.7 mm machine gun; one 35mm Automatic Grenade Launcher
Missiles: Eight Kornet ATGM’s; Four Igla-SKZ SAM Missiles
Defensive Arnament: Two Flare Dispensers; 16 Smoke Grenade Dispensers; One Anti-Missile Laser System
Fire Control: Kazakh-80

Cost: $10,500,000

Thankyou.

http://venus.walagata.com/w/woodhall/sshot029.JPG

http://venus.walagata.com/w/woodhall/sshot031.JPG

http://venus.walagata.com/w/woodhall/sshot027.JPG

WiH would be willing to support this venture, and using our ever growing technologie advise you, we will also pay $2billion towards research. In return we ask for production rights, and if your not selling them maybe that i could sell them(ill give a percentage to all other nations who help)
Hints:
An armament of 120mm is in RL just about acceptable, BUT plans have been made for 155mm guns to be added to some tanks e.g. the Brazilian ozorio(i think thats its name).

Also the russians have produced a tank with a 125mm gun(t-90 or 92 i think?)
Therefore i suggest that you use a 135mm gun, that we at WiH could esialy develop(we will use it for our own purposes through, and maybe out on sale as an AT gun).
Also electro thermal guns are growing in popularity in NS.
Thats pretty much it, other tan diesil is better as if the engine gets flooded it should keep on working(diesil isnt effected by water is it?)
Hope you accept my proposal,
President Ben I.

ill take it Kazakhstania, ill get up a war RP set up (maybe a war on terrosism, a nation maybe?) or something, but i may need help if it spirals out of control, it SHOULD be fine as i have allies through. but could i be given a high number for free/lower than estimated price?(such as 500?)

War in Heaven, get off your fucking high horses and take a little look around, will you?
firstly, the AIM-7 dosnt make mach 5. The ultra long range AIM-54C does, but they've got nothing in common. Mach 2.2 is a perfectly good speed for SAMs.
Secondly, taking a nOObs head off for mistakes isn't exactly good behavior.
And thridly, even if he is using a 1=1 exchange rate with the $ (notice prices are in his own currency?) , just incidentally, the price is hardly off by much as compared with say, the M6 Bradley Linebacker.

Fine, Cirdanistan, imsorry, but i have a major problem with n00bs!
ill leave off ok? Sorry for this hijack people.

a hundred and ten ton tank at only 4 meters wide and eleven meters long per cubic decimeter applies one ton of pressure on the ground thats enough to powder concrete and for your tank to sink into dry earth. A leopard 2 maxes out at around 65 Tonnes and your tank is only 4 square meters larger (if that) than it length wise. That means your tank is carrying an extra 45 tons of weight with only 4 square meters of extra room to carry it and no extra width between the treads. Even the Challenger and M1 Abrams do not carry this much extra weight in such a small space. With a crusing range more than the Leclerc i beleive you are mistaken even wth a hydrogen engine. It is in my opinion as a tanker that this concept would have trouble movin let alone fighting anything and would be better used as a gun turret rather than an MBT. Also tanks are supposed to have low profiles consdering the effectiveness of combat helicopters against them. Just some things to consider in your redesign.

NQB, here:

The hydrogen engine uses ultra compressed gas, for a HUGE cruise range. The fuel tank is no large than any other tank too :roll:

Also, I didnt know about the size, I based it on anything I could find :roll:

Firstly, the government of O & I would like to thank you all the interest shown.

We have now had a chance to consider the various proposals, but before we continue we wish to make an appeal for calm! If various states have reservations about teh viability of another proposal that affects this project, then please could we ask that any issues be resolved amicably :D

We at O & I are willing to enter into a project with any nation that wishes to participate, with the intention of benefitting from the skills of each.

As such, we have the following suggestion for our mutual benefit; naturally the various nations would have to agree to work together first.
We suggest that the following nations could design certain components for the vehicle:

International Main Battle Tank 1 (IMBT-1)

KILEAN: A lightened cougar turret, with provision for an automatic loader
WAR IN HEAVEN: Main armament, 135mm weapon (or possible 140mm- the Swedish Strigsvagn 2000 could potentially be armed with this calibre)
NOT QUITE BELFAST: Electronic systems, including gun laying devices., and final design diagnostic tests
KIHAMERIA, OSHIMA & IZU: chassis and powerplant: we are keen for a front-engined vehicle
KAZAKHSTANIA: Defence systems, and ERA

If those nations wishing to participate could please supply details of their component (in whatever detail), then we will subsequently be able to work up the complete design

We believe that the best results will stem from a combined pooling of talent, and I hasten to add that our government perceives much talent. If, on the other hand, any of you do not feel able to contibute to an international project of thsi magnitude, then we ask that you contact us ASAP.

As to the terms of the project:

1. All nations have access to the final result of the project, including a license to market for foreign sale, the final MBT.
2. Contibuting nations have exclusive rights to the SEPARATE sale or marketing of those individual components they were responsible for (Note: this is to protect nations bringing individual expertise to the project, and those wishing to develop spin-off technologies further)
3. Participating nations will agree not to divulge the technical details of this vehicle, whether by sale, transaction or gift, to third party states for a set period of time to be agreed by the particpating nations.

Well that is our suggestion. It would split the costs among us, thus saving money, and benefit all. Thoughts are welcome.

Thank you for accepting our proposal, WiH will get to it right away, and research the information required for a electro thermal weapon.
Best of luck to all the team, T.E.C.H head.

May I also put forward my next generation JTIDS system?

WiH: excellent news!
Kazakhstania: we are not familiar with JTIDS...an explanation would help!

Still awaiting responses from the rest of the consortium

...it would be a simple matter to take the turret/FC sytems from a cougar and affix an autoloader. Call it a six-shot revolver system. Fires six shots, takes five seconds to reload the cylinder with a pre-selected ammo mix. Re-gunning it is some work...but it could be done. Provisions made for re-wiring and new electronics systems.

Kilean: Excellent. Once WiH provides details of the weapon, we will have a turret...

Work continues on the hull, but we are not envisaging any serious problems there.

Kilean: Excellent. Once WiH provides details of the weapon, we will have a turret...

Work continues on the hull, but we are not envisaging any serious problems there.

NqB is in, though we await the final construstion of the chassis before we begin our work. We are looking to find a medium in terms of electronics between the M1A1 and Leopard 2 with the steering system of the Leclerc added in for balance.

First electronic modular system ready for installation is the 360TIP (360 Targeting and Imaging Periscope). The 360TIP similar to the M1 series 6 periscopes is an outlay of six 60degree arc diamond lense, titanium micro cameras with thermal imaging visual enhancements for night combat and 6 reserve cameras for damage purposes.

The accompanying targeting lasers give the Commander the option of firing the main gun using his Persicope as a target aquisition program (P-TAP) however the main weapons accuracy is reduced by around 17%.

A simliar 180TIP is used by the driver though it lacks the Thermal Imaging and weapons addition in favour of a Light Amplification Device and wide beam terrain scanning laser eyes more suited to the drivers Position. A low calibre 60 degree arc swivel turret mounted machine gun uses the same principles as the Commaders P-TAP. (Design and position pending Chassis developement and engineering requirements)

OOC: Any Feedback on this is welcomed i think i worked out most of the bugs but i am not really sure.

WiH: excellent news!
Kazakhstania: we are not familiar with JTIDS...an explanation would help!

Still awaiting responses from the rest of the consortium

The JTIDS is a system linking combat units to support units (in a nutshell).

To: The affilliates of our R&D into the IMBT.
From: Comrade Scientist Connaught Kelly on the advisory of Acting Chairman Chris Murnane

"The workers and farmers of the Peoples Republic of Not quite Belfast are quite pleased at the effort you are all making with IMBT and wish to extend a continuance of cordiality and non-aggression with the IMBT team. In effect we offer a loose non-regional alliance. This is not a forcd alliance and we the people bear no ill feeeling to those who do not wish to be involved"

These are just a few of the electronic systems we are working on

Drive integration Systems
Battery Systems
Turret Control Systems
Automated Secondary Weapons Systems (Using the TIP technology)
Cupola Imagin systems.

That is all.

NQB: We are delighted with your progress on the systems; to our eyes they look most acceptable.

As to your non-regional non-aggression/alliance proposal, we would like to signal our serious interest.

State of play on the chassis: current thinking suggests a design based loosely upon the specifications of the M1A1. however, the forward hull will be extended to contain the powerplant, with the fighting compartment pushed towards the rear as a consequence. We believe that this will allow greater flexibility in terms of conversion options.

Powerplant is expected to develop greater performance than that of the M1, whilst running on gasolene. For alcohol fuels, we currently envision a marginal drop in performance due to th relative combustion yields,; however work on this continues.

Any comments concerning the chassis are most welcome.

Kilean would also like to construct the NBC warfare systems- we're currently engaged in chemical warfare and would like to apply some lessons learned in this area.

Delivery System for anti air craft weaponary straight up launchers or chassis mounted launch tubes?

Also a design aspect you need to worry about is how thick the forward glacias plate combined with the weight of the Powerplant. If the weight is to much then the tank may have problems maneouvering from the standard hull down fighting position and may have problems when engaged in water operations. A way to balance this is too set the turret at the rear of the tank this however severly cuts down the angle of depression available to the main armanent.

Basicaly this tank should not exceed 65 tons. Heavy lift aircraft will have problems hauling one around.

The Backup powr supply for the tank's vital systems is a single cell 1000 volt Lithium cartridge 8 inches long wth a diameter of about 4 inches with a minimum life of 10 years. (Stock standard lithium Battery)

The automated TIP weaponary system lets the commander mark targets to be destroyed Automatically by the secondary weapons allowing him more focus when in battle. Alternatively the weapons systems can be controlled by a simple yoke system either by the driver or by the commander depending on circumstance.

Thats all i've come up with so far.

Kilean: your expertise is most welcome

NQB: The plan was to mount the turret further back to compensate, thus accepting limitations on the main gun depression. If the front glacis is sloped sufficiently (although obviously there needs to be enough space to fit the engine and driver in) we should be able to minimise the problem.

The alternative is to go for a standard rear-mounted engine after all.
Advice?

(OOC: I know something about AFVs, but probably not enough to work out some of these finer points- hell I'm a historian!- so I would appreciate some help, especially as Kihameria is working on a separate project these days)

Apologies, various OOC crises have been keeping me away :cry:

WiH are currently looking into a 140mm ETC to arm the vehicle; the turret should be almost worked out (Kilean?), NQB have provided details of the electronics. The chassis, after long deliberations, will be based upon the M1A1, with the engine conventionally mounted in the rear. the poweplant is of a similar size to teh existing plant, but is capable of running off alternative fuels. That is, unless anyone has a better idea?

Right. So how about we get a complete spec list drawn up and maybe, some drawings? I'm sadly limied as to what I can post from my connection, but I'll help in anyway possible.