NationStates Jolt Archive

The People's Republic of Shildonia does hereby formally lodge a charge with the International Court against the Allied States of Colodia for multiple breaches of the Geneva Convention.

The head of the body will be cut off and placed on a long metal stick in front of the capitol's gates for everyone to mock and laugh at it.

Article 3.1.a of the Geneva Convention states that:


To this end the following acts are and shall remain prohibited at any time and in any place whatsoever with respect to the above-mentioned persons:
(a) Violence to life and person, in particular murder of all kinds, mutilation, cruel treatment and torture;

Not to mention Article 13, which states that:

Likewise, prisoners of war must at all times be protected, particularly against acts of violence or intimidation and against insults and public curiosity.

Measures of reprisal against prisoners of war are prohibited.

Article 13 was also breached by:
The pilots were videotaped

Article 22 states that:

Except in particular cases which are justified by the interest of the prisoners themselves, they shall not be interned in penitentiaries.

The Colodian Government has breached this Article by:

The prisoners were sent to a maximum security prison

The Colodian Government has also violated Article 29, which states that:

Prisoners of war shall have for their use, day and night, conveniences which conform to the rules of hygiene and are maintained in a constant state of cleanliness. In any camps in which women prisoners of war are accommodated, separate conveniences shall be provided for them.

Also, apart from the baths and showers with which the camps shall be furnished, prisoners of war shall be provided with sufficient water and soap for their personal toilet and for washing their personal laundry; the necessary installations, facilities and time shall be granted them for that purpose.

This can clearly be seen in the video refferred to above, where the Prisoners appear to be:


Dirty, unshaven, ugly prisoners

The evidence is clear, and I believe that these violations should not go unpunished. Indeed, I believe that the International Court should make an example out of the Colodian officials who ordered these attrocities.

Come on people, I didn't spend all afternoon reading the Geneva Convention just for everyone to ignore the fruits of my labour.

The Federation of centralamerican States supports The People's Republic of Shildonia in it inquiry to the The International Court, however it feels that Colodia must be given a chance to defend it self, although the evidence is overwhelming against Colodia.

Lawrence Garfield
Federation Ministry of State

Nice try...cutting off words from sentences like that

It had seemed that two of the Shildonian pilots had attempted to escape from the burning wreck. They were immediatly captured 23 miles from the original wreckage point. Luckily they were captued by the Colodian military rather than citizens, otherwise the pilots would've died a terrible death.

The pilots were videotaped and sent to a maximum security prison in Kukagstan. The videotape was given to a civilian leaving the country. Hopefully Shildonian media will find their way to the tape. And see that their "All-powerful air-force pilots" are nothing more than prisoners to us. Dirty, unshaven, ugly prisoners.

The videotape showed the two pilots giving their names and Division number. As well as anyother personal ID's they had. They were blindfolded and were given the freedom to say something personal to any family. The tape also showed the prison they were staying in was in good order. However, this is just because these two men serve as a warning to all other incoming military units. Once we get our 5th POW, the POW's will be sent off to WORSE conditions. Much worse.

THAT'S THE WHOLE THING!

And regarding the mutilation part

BREAKING NEWS! Leon Quev goes missing!

Following Quev's announcement on the captured terrorists last night, Leon went missing. Military officials left the media with little information to go over. This is basically what they told us.

- Leon Quev is missing, and in an unknown condition
- Quev was last seen in a bunker by the Vice-President
- The Vice-President was placed in a seperate bunker from Leon Quev, in the event Leon should be attacked
- If Quev is found dead, the Vice-President will become the new President.
- Shildonian fighters were seen in Colodian skies, one was shot down by a passing F-15 that barely managed to escape the Shildonians with his life.

The body inside the craft is dead, and after medical officials are done with it. The head of the body will be cut off and placed on a long metal stick in front of the capitol's gates for everyone to mock and laugh at it.

The aircraft shotdown was a Shildonian Vampire, which is overly used by Shildonian forces. Civilians that got to the aircraft before officials spray-painted the craft with words like "F--- the pilot of this craft!" and "AHAHAHAHA! One down, more to go!"

Personally, I liked the funny guy who painted the inside of the cockpit with red (blood), and the seat yellow (piss)

So you do not deny the charges?

However, I agree that it seems that a couple of the laws were broken. I, Leon Quev, the President of Colodia, will take full responsibility for actions the GOVERNMENT has taken

review my evidence carefully. You will see that the 1st Shildonian death was intercepted by citizens before officials. Shildonia has caused over 700 civilian deaths, you should understand that my citizens are under extrme stress due to these deaths, and seek revenge on Shildonia personally. I seek diplomatic reasoning.

The accused has now admitted his guilt, and so it is now up to the International Community to decide upon an appropriate punishment.

I would also like to point out that for the entirety of the campaign against Colodia a group of specialists in international law reviewed each target to ensure that it was a legal target under international law. Unfortunately some civillian casualties were caused, possibly due to them being used as human sheilds, or possibly due to malfunctioning weapons.
Whatever the cause, the People's Republic wholeheartedly regrets these casualties, but we must reiterate that at no point were civillian lives knowingly placed in danger.

HUMAN SHEILDS? MALFUNCTIONING WEAPONS?

Your prime targets were power plants, satellite communications, etc.

Only once did you attack a military target, Leon Quev.

Double

Aie, some fool linked this topic to a region that hates me. The poll is definatly leaning toward bias and I'd like a fair trial

Perhapse this case could be handled with a neutral country as judge. With a jury approved (by that I mean shown not to be blatently biased) by both sides.

It seems rather unfair to put the thing out there with everyone able to post their votes.

There isn't really any need for a trial any more, as the accused has admitted to ordering these war crimes to be committed (and I might add, that those who carried out the orders were under no obligation to carry out illegal orders, and so have also committed war crimes) and so the only thing left to do is to sentence him.
On behalf of the victims, I urge the International Community to go for a sentence of life imprisonment, possibly in solitary confinement.

The Grand Duchy of Graudenz wholeheartedly supports Colodia. We attempted to assist the said nation with humantarian aid and a naval peacekeeping force, only to have Shildonia attack the Graudenzian naval group with cruise missiles. A ship was damaged, and Shildonai threatened to invade us if we did not accede to their demand of surrender.

The People's Republic is not on trial here, and even we were the attacks only took place after the Graudenzian navy began committing wanton acts of piracy against merchant vessels of various nationalties that were heading towards Shildonia. This was an act of war, and so the Shildonian Government believed a state of war was in place. For this reason the Graudenzian vessels were deemed to be a threat.

Colodia i must ask have you sign the Geneva Convention Treaty?

Claiming to be outside of the law is not a defence to any crime.

in fact it is, for you see if you have not signed it you have done nothing wrong due to the fact that it does not mean a dam thing to you.
look at Iraq that had broken the Geneva Convention Treaty on countless times but not once did any international countray say so, in fact in stead they sead they broke other laws such as human rights.
so in fact you can only chrage Colodia for brakeing Human right laws, so with that Colodia Goverment i offer my Empire open to you if you feel fit.

OOC: I'm not sure how many nations have signed the Geneva Convention, Iuthia tries to follow the convention but we'll be damned if we're are going to sign it...

I'm a dictator, I don't want some lawyer looking at my actions down a microscope.

However, I agree that it seems that a couple of the laws were broken. I, Leon Quev, the President of Colodia, will take full responsibility for actions the GOVERNMENT has taken


As you can see, the Defendant has admitted to violating the Geneva Convention, and has taken responsility for these violations. As such he is guilty of warcrimes.

but i still put forward my question did Colodia goverment sign the Geneva Convention Treaty? if not you CAN'T be charged with brakeing it, you can be charged with Human rights laws but thats it.

No, Colodia has NEVER signed to any Geneva thing. Check my post history, check whereever I'm supposed to sign. I HAVE NEVER SIGNED SUCH A THING.

It's like making me pay for defying UN resolutions when I'm not even in the UN...ABSURD!

So you consider yourself to be outside of the law? Capable of committing multiple attrocities and then turning round and saying "Yes I committed war crimes and I am proud of it because I know you cannot prosecute"
I for one thing it is disgraceful for a nation to be able to evade international law like that, and I would hope the rest of the international community would feel that way too.

YES! Colodia is outside of the Geneva Laws! DUH! HELLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO?

OOC: You made Leon Quev very stressed...he is sorry

Colodia wrote:
The head of the body will be cut off and placed on a long metal stick in front of the capitol's gates for everyone to mock and laugh at it.


Article 3.1.a of the Geneva Convention states that:

The Geneva Convention wrote:

To this end the following acts are and shall remain prohibited at any time and in any place whatsoever with respect to the above-mentioned persons:
(a) Violence to life and person, in particular murder of all kinds, mutilation, cruel treatment and torture;


Not to mention Article 13, which states that:

The Geneva Convention wrote:
Likewise, prisoners of war must at all times be protected, particularly against acts of violence or intimidation and against insults and public curiosity.

Measures of reprisal against prisoners of war are prohibited.

They were not prisoners of war as they were dead when the medical team got to them. Also, they were not mutilated until AFTER they died.. the line you quoted clearly states "Violence to life and person". Since they were not alive and therefore not people, your point is moot.
As far as I'm concerned, the funerary customs of Colodia (ie. placing the head on a stake) should not be insulted by the international community.



Article 13 was also breached by:
Colodia wrote:
The pilots were videotaped


Article 22 states that:

The Geneva Convention wrote:
Except in particular cases which are justified by the interest of the prisoners themselves, they shall not be interned in penitentiaries.


The Colodian Government has breached this Article by:

Colodia wrote:
The prisoners were sent to a maximum security prison

It did serve the prisoners interests to be housed in a maximum security facility. As was stated in the full report posted by the nation of Colodia, the citizens of Colodia would likely have maimed or killed the prisoners if given the chance. They would have been well protected in a maximum security prison if they were separated from the rest of the inmates.


The Colodian Government has also violated Article 29, which states that:

The Geneva Convention wrote:
Prisoners of war shall have for their use, day and night, conveniences which conform to the rules of hygiene and are maintained in a constant state of cleanliness. In any camps in which women prisoners of war are accommodated, separate conveniences shall be provided for them.

Also, apart from the baths and showers with which the camps shall be furnished, prisoners of war shall be provided with sufficient water and soap for their personal toilet and for washing their personal laundry; the necessary installations, facilities and time shall be granted them for that purpose.


This can clearly be seen in the video refferred to above, where the Prisoners appear to be:

Colodia wrote:

Dirty, unshaven, ugly prisoners

You took the last quote out of context - this was before they were taken to the prison.


No war crimes have been committed.

They were not prisoners of war as they were dead when the medical team got to them. Also, they were not mutilated until AFTER they died.. the line you quoted clearly states "Violence to life and person". Since they were not alive and therefore not people, your point is moot.
As far as I'm concerned, the funerary customs of Colodia (ie. placing the head on a stake) should not be insulted by the international community.



Mutilation of a corpse is disrespectful, and even if it is part of some twisted Colodian ritual, the man in question was a Shildonian and Shildonian culture does not call for any type of mutilation. Even cremation is generally frowned upon.

It did serve the prisoners interests to be housed in a maximum security facility. As was stated in the full report posted by the nation of Colodia, the citizens of Colodia would likely have maimed or killed the prisoners if given the chance. They would have been well protected in a maximum security prison if they were separated from the rest of the inmates.


A POW camp can easily be set up with a few guards to protect the inmates. Also, there is no evidence that the POWs were seperated from the other inmates.


You took the last quote out of context - this was before they were taken to the prison.


They were clean when they took off, and dirty after they were shot down (the shooting down is actually in dispute since it seems Colodia believes air to air missiles to be a magical creation capable of aquiring any target at any range and without any guidance. Obviously this is not the case.)
They should have been given access to the appropriate facilities as soon as possible after they were captured. If there was time to arrange a TV appearance there was time to have a shower and a shave.

No war crimes have been committed.

Yes they have.

Hm... don't get me wrong, I don't like what he has done. But it's pretty clear that you have a problem and I'll be honest; it's your problem.

He has broken a law your nation conciders to be important. However in his nation he has not broken the law so he doesn't feel he is guitly of anything.

It's not in my interests to see that he follows your rules, it's clearly a matter between you, him and anyone that supports either side.

So what are you going to do? Are you going to demand that he gets handed over? Then what will you do if he refuses, like he is doing... well then you could force him to answer to his crimes... but that would end in war.

So what it ulimately comes down to is a important question you have to ask yourself: "Am I willing to go to war over this"

It's as simple as that...


Personally I would try and use diplomacy to avoid such a conflict... however you will not get your man if there isn't the incentive for him to be handed over... pressurising the people around him to think "we had better hand him over" is a good way, but if they don't have a reason to summit to your law, they won't.

Even if you want to hold them accountable, first you must capture their leaders. If you want a coalition to do so, great, if not, bring the people in for trial. You can't have a trial of just the nations.

Next, there needs to be an international court. Where is this trial being held? What are the rules? Who is the judge?

Finally, if you want to hold the civilians responsible for their actions, that's one thing. I still haven't seen any reason to bring the leaders of the government to trial, besides quotes taken horibbly out of context.

OOC: Shildonia, is it OK if I RP in this as well? I beleive I rped with Colodia recently...

Mutilation of a corpse is disrespectful, and even if it is part of some twisted Colodian ritual, the man in question was a Shildonian and Shildonian culture does not call for any type of mutilation. Even cremation is generally frowned upon.

:arrow: This was done by the people of Colodia. The government frowns upon this and has no law that illegalizes cutting off human body parts or whatnot. I suppose this'll be an issue to look over once Colodia finally drafts its Constitution

Oh, and the body was upon Colodian soil. So naturally, a dead man on Colodian soil will receive a Colodian funeral. Be it burial, setting the body on fire, whatnot



A POW camp can easily be set up with a few guards to protect the inmates. Also, there is no evidence that the POWs were seperated from the other inmates.


:arrow: I did not specifically say that, but yes, they WERE seperated from other inmates.


They were clean when they took off, and dirty after they were shot down (the shooting down is actually in dispute since it seems Colodia believes air to air missiles to be a magical creation capable of aquiring any target at any range and without any guidance. Obviously this is not the case.)
They should have been given access to the appropriate facilities as soon as possible after they were captured. If there was time to arrange a TV appearance there was time to have a shower and a shave.

:arrow: Did I not say that the term "dirty, unshaven prisoners" was how they were DESCRIBED as? I mean, pretty much any and all prisoners in reality are dirty and unshaven.

No war crimes have been committed.

Yes they have.[/quote]

:arrow: Oh no they havent

disrespecting corpses is not a crime.. as you say, it is disrespectful, but I can't see it being considered a war crime.

I do not believe it is necessary to clean up prisoners the moment you've taken them. Maybe they escaped from their plane wreckage and got dirty while running away. The report made by Colodia is not clear in that respect, but it sounded as if the video was taken shortly after their capture. It was intended to increase the country's morale, not show how clean they can get their POWs.

The only crime chellis see's the colodians have commited, is not allowing the shildonian POW's to shave, etc. This is hardly worthy of a sentence however, at most chellis suggests the colodian government get rid of all possible copies of the video, and pay the equivilent of $100,000 USD to each POW who was unshaven, for phychological damages, and chellis will provide the money for colodia.

On the issue of the decapitation of the shildonian body, chellis views this as a cultural problem and not a political one. Chellis itself has a wall of shame on the great towers of babel, where political traitors and other people deemed unworthy of chellian life are killed and hung, the amount of time depending on what they did. Some nations might consider this grotesque, but we feel it is an ultimate shame one must be given if they do such a horrible crime.

On the prison issue, we feel colodia could have chosen a better place for the POW's, but their actions were not unjustified, albiet executed not in the perfect manner.

OOC: Shildonia, is it OK if I RP in this as well? I beleive I rped with Colodia recently...

Not until you accept that the F-35 is in fact a real aircraft, and that it is possible to fly at high speeds at low altitude and all of the other real life stuff you refuse to believe is possible.
Even then I would rather have nothing to do with you whatsoever.

The Chellian offer is accepted as long as the compensation is extended to the family of the mutilated airman. However, a full trade embargo against Colodia will remain in place for a period of not less than 500 years. This may be extended further if circumstances warrant it.

OOC: I never said it wasn't. Actually, you said I didn't think it was, then ignored me after that. Also, I never said you -can't- fly that low, I said it is innefficient, as you burn more fuel flying low.

I wasn't aware that there even was a nationstates Geneva Convention, there was an Kitslivanya (I can't spell it) Accord but thats about all. And most nations have not signed it.

As it is quite clear that Colodia never signed the Geneva Conventions, they can not be held to it.
The conventions clearly state they are binding only on signatory nations.
Hence, trying to force the conventions on a nation, is itself a violation of the Geneva Conventions.
Therefore, Whittier supports Colodia in this case.

(OOC: We in the US military are required to know the Geneva Conventions cause the US is a signatory and American troops can get in serious trouble for violating them. Just ask those MPs who tortured those Iraqi's a couple of months ago simply because they were Iraqis. They're all serving life at the Fort Leavenworth Maximum Security Prison. )

OOC: I never said it wasn't. Actually, you said I didn't think it was, then ignored me after that. Also, I never said you -can't- fly that low, I said it is innefficient, as you burn more fuel flying low.

RAF tactics up until about 1991. Read up about them sometime. Failing that, visit Barnard Castle sometime. The RAF often do low level flying near there.
Now please, leave me alone. Everything you post in turns into a case of you denying real life like a small child throwing a tantrum because he can't get his own way.

I do not believe it is necessary to clean up prisoners the moment you've taken them. Maybe they escaped from their plane wreckage and got dirty while running away. The report made by Colodia is not clear in that respect, but it sounded as if the video was taken shortly after their capture. It was intended to increase the country's morale, not show how clean they can get their POWs.

And that is precisely the kind of exposure that the Geneva Convention is supposed to protect POWs from. Prisoners of war are not to be paraded in front of a nation's populace for the sake of morale; they are to be treated with dignity.

Additionally, though it may have been better for the prisoners to be put in a penitentiary than left in the open for angry civilians, it would still have been in their best interest to place them in a separate POW camp, and by doing so, Colodia would have avoided violating the Convention.

- James Weston, Attorney General

the CorpSac Empire will Surpport Colodia 100% its actions were not agenst any law but your own, you CAN NOT enforce your laws.
untill this matter is resolved all Shildonia people with in our borders are being arested and other things as we speak.

Chellis is less worried about semantics, and more worried about peace between shildonia and colodia. Chellis will extend the conditions to the extended members of the family.

Additionally, Chellis assumes shildonia is just not trading with colodia for 500 years, and not preventing others from doing it.

On this note and the peace being signed currently, chellis is beginning to ship forces out of colodia, to honor the origional agreement between colodia and shildonia.

Chellis is less worried about semantics, and more worried about peace between shildonia and colodia. Chellis will extend the conditions to the extended members of the family.

Additionally, Chellis assumes shildonia is just not trading with colodia for 500 years, and not preventing others from doing it.

On this note and the peace being signed currently, chellis is beginning to ship forces out of colodia, to honor the origional agreement between colodia and shildonia.

Well I'm glad that's all settled. Just be careful of those mines on your way out, we dropped quite a lot of them and I don't think anyone has tried to clear them yet.
Of course, if certain terrorists (http://www.nationstates.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/-1/page=display_nation/nation=corpsac) do not cease their misguided attempts to sabotage the proceedings we may not prove to be so agreeable.

CorpSac: You realise that when you made your post an agreement had been reached? You realise that there wasn't going to be any further accusations of war crimes? You realise I am four times your size? You realise what will happen if the hostages are not placed on the next available plane to Shildonia? Your call.

All persons will be relised

*ahem* hello everyone...just though I'd drop by and see how the peace thing is goin on! Great? Good! Now let's mosey on over to the original topic and find out what becomes of Colodian traitors...