NationStates Jolt Archive

Here is a graphical classification of Automagfreek's infantry forces.

The Sentinel

http://www.bu.aust.com/milwkshop/images/sentinel.jpg

Relevant links:

http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=65559
http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=68971
http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=69443



History:

The Sentinel has been the mainstay of Automagfreek's military muscle for many years. They are a genetically pure species of man, and are bereft of genetic impurities such as asthma, certain cancers, etc. From the second they are removed from the harvesting machines, they are fed blood, death, and war. Their entire life is spent in training for war, and through 24/7 training they are molded into the perfect soldier. Emotions such as fear and remorse are foreign to them, and they are taught to do exactly as they are told. They are taught that killing is the only thing they live for, and their bloodlust grows every day that they do not spill blood. They are not paid soldiers, for they have been taught that money and treasure is worthless.

The Sentinels are famous for the invasion of New Spartha. In this war which lasted mere days, the Sentinels literally burned New Spartha to the ground, all the while raping the women and putting the men and children to the sword. Prisoners were taken back to Automagfreek and sent to the Halls of the Dead, where they met their fate. After pillaging and burning New Spartha to the ground, the Sentinels returned gloriously with all the spoils.

The Sentinels are clones of the original copy, Lord Damien Dreadfire. While not as tall and burly, the Sentinels are a fighting force rivaled only by the Reavers of Pantera.

Numbers: 75,000,000

Active in infantry units: 11,000,000
Active in support roles: 20,000,000
Reserves: 30,000,000
Retired: 14,000,000


The Sentinel Stalker

History: This is AMF's modified version of a standard Sentinel. Due to the coplexities in their engineering, the number of Stalkers is reletively low. They have only been used once when Damien was raised from the grave.

Numbers: 20,000

Active in infantry units: 5,000
Active in support roles: 6,000
Reserves: 5,000
Retired: 4,000

The Death Dealer

http://www.frazetta.free.fr/frank_frazetta_deathdealerIII.jpg

Relevant links: http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=111850

History: Little is known about the Death Dealers except for that they manifest from the Tomb of the Mutilated ( a pit inside the Halls. Nobody comes back from the Tomb, let alone the Halls.). The Death Dealers are led by a being known as The One Who Shall Remain Unnamed. Legend says that these creatures are the manifestation of dozens of souls lost in Limbo, spun together than cast back into the realm of the living. Their numbers are unknown, but there are very few of them. The Death Dealers have yet to see actual combat, but legend says that these warriors of the Outer Realms possess the strength of the souls inside them. What this means has yet to be explained.

Numbers: Unknown

Active in infantry units: 525
Active in support roles: n/a
Reserves: n/a
Retired: n/a


The Freeks

Hostory: "The Freeks" are the normal everyday people of Automagfreek, the paid soldiers. While the Sentinels are now the main fighting force, Freeks are still placed in combat units to supplement their numbers. The Freeks have fought many wars over the years, including World War 4 and World War 5. The Freeks have yet to taste defeat in battle, and they would proudly die for their Warlord and country.

Numbers: 50,000,000

Active in infantry units: 10,000,000
Active in support roles: 25,000,000
Reserves: 10,000,000
Retired: 5,000,000

************

There you have it. I will update this as often as I can.

Bump

OOC:Cool picks Auto!

OOC:Cool picks Auto!

OOC: Thanks, I had to search awhile to find the right ones.

AMF has always been a nation that is good at finding cool pics.

Yea he does,I sometimes find good ones,but my only problem that even if I do the [img] thing,It only shows up as the dreaded crused red X

Hmmm... Sentinels are just asking for a biological assault.

Sounds like somebody has been watching Universal Soldier series.

Isn't boasting about killing and raping going to serve to be counter productive in future invasions?

The number of Sentinels is not equal to the number of soldiers in the reserves, in support roles, as infantry units or retired. I'm assuming you are missing a set of 000's.

Just my two cents.

- Sovy K.

Hmmm... Sentinels are just asking for a biological assault.

Sounds like somebody has been watching Universal Soldier series.

Isn't boasting about killing and raping going to serve to be counter productive in future invasions?

The number of Sentinels is not equal to the number of soldiers in the reserves, in support roles, as infantry units or retired. I'm assuming you are missing a set of 000's.

Just my two cents.

- Sovy K.

They're most likely reserved for combat roles.

Automag, wouldn't it be dangerous to have bloodthirsty, trained killers retired and living in normal society? Or do the Sentinels have a special retirement area? Or does 'retirement' for them mean death?

Hmmm... Sentinels are just asking for a biological assault.

?

Sounds like somebody has been watching Universal Soldier series.

Nope.

Isn't boasting about killing and raping going to serve to be counter productive in future invasions?

No, in fact it would be more incentive to whoever is being invaded to give up. The Sentinels are nasty dudes.

The number of Sentinels is not equal to the number of soldiers in the reserves, in support roles, as infantry units or retired. I'm assuming you are missing a set of 000's.

Just my two cents.

- Sovy K.

Yes, I am.

They're most likely reserved for combat roles.

Automag, wouldn't it be dangerous to have bloodthirsty, trained killers retired and living in normal society? Or do the Sentinels have a special retirement area? Or does 'retirement' for them mean death?

They're integrated back into society, but the thing is they are trained to only kill when ordered. Sentinels would not kill any innocent person unless told to by their superiors.

Bump

Awsome stuff, Freek. Really cool unit descriptions.

OOC: Thank you. I was hoping to get abit more in depth, but I was too tired last night.

That would be cool. I'm still calculating my army in numbers. Like who's assigned to what and all that. It's long work. Especially with my new updated store coming either tonight or tommorrow.

OOC: I still have to do updated counts of my airforce and navy...urg.

Wow... thats alot of infantry... its cool infantry but its alot of infantry.

Then again I suppose you've got a huge economy, I had to reduce my numbers on the grounds that I couldn't support as much.

Their cool none the less.

Sounds like somebody has been watching Universal Soldier series.


Nope.

Lucky. I had to sit through those shows. Felt like I was watching Battlefield Earth.

No, in fact it would be more incentive to whoever is being invaded to give up. The Sentinels are nasty dudes.

I do not see how this would work. I would bring up the scenario of the Eastern Germans going through when they gave up in 1945, but your next post better clarifies this.

I'll clarify what I mean by a biological assault. Because these sentinels have no defects, and basically have their stats boosted up, their genome is going to be more or less similar to the next one. Now, a biological weapon like a retrovirus can take advantage of this in so many different ways.

Thumbs up for having more realistic supply/infantry. But wouldn't it be better to have the sentinels to be the bulk of the infantry, while the freeks serve on the supply network? I can't really see a sentinel being all that effective with a desk job.

- Sovy K.

Wow... thats alot of infantry... its cool infantry but its alot of infantry.

Then again I suppose you've got a huge economy, I had to reduce my numbers on the grounds that I couldn't support as much.

Their cool none the less.

OOC: It's not nearly as much as I could have. It's easy for me to support because the Sentinels do not receive paychecks. Big money saver.

OOC: It's not nearly as much as I could have. It's easy for me to support because the Sentinels do not receive paychecks. Big money saver.

OOC: Makes sense, it really does save alot of money...

Hmm, it depends. I can't see it doing all too well for the general consumer economy. Government spending usually helps with the general economy, as those soldiers that get paid will obviouslly use that money to invest or purchase consumer goods. This helps your average Joe get his paycheck at the end of the week.

In the end, all that is being reduced is government spending, which could be for the better or worse, depending on how you look at it.

Oh, I'm assuming that these soldiers, appearing to be testerone factories, are largely sterile?

- Sovy K.

they are freaks and thats it.

Hmm, it depends. I can't see it doing all too well for the general consumer economy. Government spending usually helps with the general economy, as those soldiers that get paid will obviouslly use that money to invest or purchase consumer goods. This helps your average Joe get his paycheck at the end of the week.

In the end, all that is being reduced is government spending, which could be for the better or worse, depending on how you look at it.

Oh, I'm assuming that these soldiers, appearing to be testerone factories, are largely sterile?

- Sovy K.

It's for the better, because the government can use that money to invest in more soldiers, hence a certain equiliberium takes place.

As for the Sentinels, their seed is genetically reprogrammed to be incapable of fertilization, hence there won't be regular human/Sentinel hybrids running around.

Bump

let me start first by saying, I liked the writing and the descriptions they were quite impressive. But I must say that was ruined by the uh.... To be quite honest the total wanking of numbers there. 125 million people in just you're infantry? Please We've all seen less beaten down into the ground as a godmod.

I think you've tacked on a few too many 0s AMF not paying them aside you're still paying 30 million regular infantry and trainign them, you're also paying for housing and food shipments for your sentinels AND upkeep on their training and purchasing things for them to kill. Unless you let them run rampant on your own citizens.

Really I seriously do not think that you could manage this sort of thing without living off of rocks and dust. Please do show some way of supporting this because it's one of the most oddest ridicularities to date. What's to stop everyone from going OMG I have teh genetic made soldiers that dont want money I have hundreds of millions now! lol lol lol I ignorez teh cost of feeding and housing! lololol.

Really this is bad form dude I hope it's just a simple mistake........

~Carlos resident national socialist not assigned to the often stereo typed German workers party.

let me start first by saying, I liked the writing and the descriptions they were quite impressive. But I must say that was ruined by the uh.... To be quite honest the total wanking of numbers there. 125 million people in just you're infantry? Please We've all seen less beaten down into the ground as a godmod.

You fail to take into account that those numbers INCLUDE RESERVES and SUPPORT (the latter including intelligence, repairs, medics, etc. ). Again, thse are not all ground pounders, and I never said they were.

I think you've tacked on a few too many 0s AMF not paying them aside you're still paying 30 million regular infantry and trainign them, you're also paying for housing and food shipments for your sentinels AND upkeep on their training and purchasing things for them to kill. Unless you let them run rampant on your own citizens.

I understand that, I have taken all of that into account already before I even started the project back in September. Plus when you have near excessive amounts of money being polled into your military, you can afford things such as these. I've made no significant new purchases in the past few MONTHS, and I not only can my economy vouch for my expendatures, so can the fact that I'm in to top 700 for fastest growing economies and top 900 for defense forces per capita. I know some peope may say "OMFG TH4T DOS3N"T M34N 4NYTH1NG!!!111", but it does to me.

Also, you must have missed the sentence where I said the Sentinels are the main fighting force of my military. The regular humans are more or less there to support them in strikes, but they're mostly for my homeland garrisons.

Really I seriously do not think that you could manage this sort of thing without living off of rocks and dust. Please do show some way of supporting this because it's one of the most oddest ridicularities to date. What's to stop everyone from going OMG I have teh genetic made soldiers that dont want money I have hundreds of millions now! lol lol lol I ignorez teh cost of feeding and housing! lololol.

What's to stop others from doing it? Nothing, hence that was a dumb statement. I've done this for 6 months, and nobody's had a problem with it...until now :roll: As mentioned above, I have the economic needs to support this number of troops (again, NOT all ground pounders, I don't know where the hell you got that impression).


Really this is bad form dude I hope it's just a simple mistake........


Is it not bad form to point out every little thing that displeases you? This isn't the first time you've gotten on my case you know.

Again, I don't know where you're getting these accusations from, because I've justified myself time and time again, and frankly I'm tired of doing it. I'm not some noob that tries to land all my infantry in one strike, hell no. If you actually read my invasions (there hasn't been one in awhile), you'll notice the highest I'll ever go in a wave is 5,000, and that's due to my high number of naval transports. I understand logistics, costs, etc. all too well, or perhaps you've missed some of my "FYI" threads.

I could argue my case all day long, but I'm damn tired of doing it.

I apologize if that post was harsh. It's just one of those days today ( also Friday the 13th. :shock: ).....

The sentinels are scary. At least LRR troops have morals, geesh...........

Bump

I must complement you on your sentinels. I have a similar unit but not as main infantry or GM. They are a small special ops unit of about 100 but we are taking notes to wheather to expand this project.

Hmmm... I'm back.

Meh, stupid posting. Anyways, the numbers are high, but not necessarily out of this world. According to my guesstimates say that 7-8% of the population is in the military, according to the NS population counter. These numbers were only reached at during the World Wars. High, very high, but if that is your entire armed forces, then meh.

I usually place every little weight on NS placement, especially when it comes to the number of people are in the country. It is absurd to be seeing 30 countries RPing and acting as if their country has a 2 billion population. Not to mention that what my country says is different from how I would RP it on Emerald. It gets tiring, since it starts coming out to being, "OMG! I ma 1,9 bilion nation!!!1! i totally pwn u 1.1 billi0n nation!!1!!" especially when the newer people are pretty decent RPers, getting shafted like that.

But I digress.

As for the Sentinels, their seed is genetically reprogrammed to be incapable of fertilization, hence there won't be regular human/Sentinel hybrids running around.

To be blunt, I do not think you have to go far to accomplish that.

- Sovy K.

TAG

OOC:

A point here...

AMF:

Could you tell how much the upkeep of a sentinal costs for a time unit... say per year... (since you state they are regular humans with a load of genetic mods to get rid of disease/inherent genetic weaknesses and look the same... I assume they have to be fed, clothed and given most of the upkeeps a regular soldier does)...

Plus can you say how much you spend on your regular soldiers per year...

Also... how much does it cost to replace a sentinal? (i.e. genetically alter them and train them up, equip them etc) Please also give the time period... from scratch to fully ready.

Plus can you give me a relative estimate to the amount of GDP (percentage) you spend on your military per year...

Plus, someone mentioned how do you keep your sentinals occupied throughout the years of little/no military action... live fire exercises etc? This is going to be expensive to do for 80 (I forget how many you have) million troops... let alone your other guys...especially as you say '24 hour' exercises... this means a lot of your support troops as well since you need to keep them at the same state as your other troops... think about the cost we are talking easily a few hundred billion USD in exercises...

Your looking at a two majorly probable scenarios here (as far as I can see):

You spend your entire military budget on upkeeping your forces... thus no new development's or fresh recruitment can take place...

You have a huge military budget to accomodate things (say 30-40% (I run at 15% now and thats still huge in my opinion) thus your economy is going to be going down the pan. Unless you've got some very strange system, which you would have to describe to me... (see the USSR and North Korea). Thus your civilian population is going to be poor and easily turned against you, by the comparative riches of other nations... remeber greed works better than propaganda and brain-washing...

NOTE

If you've answered any or all of these questions before link me to a thread... because I still don't believe this is possible for a nation claiming to be modern tech without some seriously revolutionary Governmental and Economic systems :)

Geez, you ask alot of questions. To tell you the truth, I don't have numbers specific to the friggin' cent, ok? That's not how I roleplay. You and I obviously belong to two differnet classes here, an RPer and a 'techie'. While you prefer to have specific and exact digits and stats on just about everything, I prefer to do things differently. Personally, I'd rather use my creative writing skills as opposed to a calculator. But if you insist on knowing numbers, you'll get them.


Could you tell how much the upkeep of a sentinal costs for a time unit... say per year... (since you state they are regular humans with a load of genetic mods to get rid of disease/inherent genetic weaknesses and look the same... I assume they have to be fed, clothed and given most of the upkeeps a regular soldier does)...

No clue. Whatever the price of 3 meals a day, new clothes when needed, ammo, etc. costs. I don't have the exact figures on how much a bullet costs, nor do I know the exact prices of different foods. Sentinels do not receive a paycheck however, for they are raised to believe that money is nonexistant. Treasures mean nothing to them.

Plus can you say how much you spend on your regular soldiers per year...

Less than you'd think. I'd be willing to say when a year is over, probably several billion.

Also... how much does it cost to replace a sentinal? (i.e. genetically alter them and train them up, equip them etc) Please also give the time period... from scratch to fully ready.

Before I answer that, read THIS (http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=337474). It takes 18 years to get one ready.

Plus can you give me a relative estimate to the amount of GDP (percentage) you spend on your military per year...

According to ThirdGeek, my military budget is at 37%, making it $42,747,422,457,457.89. Granted, nowhere near that amount of money gets spent in a year.

Plus, someone mentioned how do you keep your sentinals occupied throughout the years of little/no military action... live fire exercises etc? This is going to be expensive to do for 80 (I forget how many you have) million troops... let alone your other guys...especially as you say '24 hour' exercises... this means a lot of your support troops as well since you need to keep them at the same state as your other troops... think about the cost we are talking easily a few hundred billion USD in exercises...

Another rumor. Not true. And I do NOT have 80 million troops, that is a lie started by Belem to make me seem like a godmodder. My Sentinels number somewhere in the neighborhood of 10-20 million of all ages, including reservists. I've RPed the Sentinels for over 450 real life days, and it seems like only now when somebody's ass is on the line are there objections. Quaint.


You spend your entire military budget on upkeeping your forces... thus no new development's or fresh recruitment can take place...

False. I have not made significant military purchases in at least 8 months real life time. My Sentinels do not even put a dent in my $42 trillion dollar military budget.

You have a huge military budget to accomodate things (say 30-40% (I run at 15% now and thats still huge in my opinion) thus your economy is going to be going down the pan. Unless you've got some very strange system, which you would have to describe to me... (see the USSR and North Korea). Thus your civilian population is going to be poor and easily turned against you, by the comparative riches of other nations... remeber greed works better than propaganda and brain-washing...

AMF has many other sources of national income, thus a 37% expenditure does not bankrupt our economy. Since nowhere near $42 trillion is spent a year on the military, that money is circulated back into the economy. Ontop of the fact that Automagfreek belongs to many large trade consortiums that rake in literally trillions. Our ties in NATO, Arda, and The Ministry (our main source of overseas income, seeing as The Ministry sports some of NS's biggest economic monsters), and the fact that I ICly purcahsed The Resi Corporation give us more than enough cash we need to function. Also, your lack of knowledge of AMF and it's regional/tribal/clan community could easily make you think that what I do is not possible. I guess now I'll have to type up an even LONGER factbook entry to appease those like yourself.

Plus you're telling this to someone who has written almost a dozen informative guides on NationStates, several of which dealt with economy and military budgets. I know what I'm doing.

NOTE

If you've answered any or all of these questions before link me to a thread... because I still don't believe this is possible for a nation claiming to be modern tech without some seriously revolutionary Governmental and Economic systems :)

Look at our economic ties, as well as the value of our currency. Look at my yearly budget of $125,579,971,966,680.05. That leaves me roughly $80 trillon to run my country, which is (in my opinion) MORE than enough.

Again, do not buy into some of these rumors that have been started, such as Belem claiming I have an army of 80 million Sentinels. I guess I'm going to have to type up an 'Urban legends of AMF' type thread now.

ooc: For some reason, I get dead links when I try to view your pics...

ooc: For some reason, I get dead links when I try to view your pics...

This is an old thread. The sites those pics are off of probably don't have them up anymore. Shame.....

This is an old thread. The sites those pics are off of probably don't have them up anymore. Shame.....

ooc: Ahh, too bad...

Geez, you ask alot of questions. To tell you the truth, I don't have numbers specific to the friggin' cent, ok? That's not how I roleplay. You and I obviously belong to two differnet classes here, an RPer and a 'techie'. While you prefer to have specific and exact digits and stats on just about everything, I prefer to do things differently. Personally, I'd rather use my creative writing skills as opposed to a calculator. But if you insist on knowing numbers, you'll get them.

AMF, I am only number picking because you are using some very contraversial things... plus relative to Real Life modern tech what you use would be hugely expensive... if you see my point... It's nothing personally against you btw... before you go thinking that one, got no problem with you OOC.

No clue. Whatever the price of 3 meals a day, new clothes when needed, ammo, etc. costs. I don't have the exact figures on how much a bullet costs, nor do I know the exact prices of different foods. Sentinels do not receive a paycheck however, for they are raised to believe that money is nonexistant. Treasures mean nothing to them.

Ok... Point about being taught treasures mean nothing. You can't actually get rid of greed etc... see the Personality Debate in Pyschology, teach them against it but can't get rid of it. I was asking this because you should when using such new forces give some idea of what their yearly upkeep per unit is or perhaps give the alterations.


Less than you'd think. I'd be willing to say when a year is over, probably several billion.

Fine, but with the kind of forces and kind of supply quota's your looking at for:

Active in infantry units: 10,000,000
Active in support roles: 25,000,000

Your looking easily in the trillions... sorry AMF but thats a lot of manpower to keep supplied, fed, paid and in fighting condition... let alone the amount of bases required for that many troops and their costs too... and I'm not bringing in your reservists either... who require I'm guessing two weeks activity etc a year... thats what the British Army uses but feel free to correct me... it's your military...

Before I answer that, read THIS (http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=337474). It takes 18 years to get one ready.

Thats fine, thanks. But how do you get additonal sentinals to replace the losses at the front, take them from other units (manpower supply units/reserves) or do you have a central pool?


According to ThirdGeek, my military budget is at 37%, making it $42,747,422,457,457.89. Granted, nowhere near that amount of money gets spent in a year.

Don't use Thirdgeek's budgetting system, it's good for the other stuff just not the budget, which is inherently flawed. I suggusted you set your own... but 37% is huge... thats almost twice the size of the Soviet Unions Mil. Budget...


Another rumor. Not true. And I do NOT have 80 million troops, that is a lie started by Belem to make me seem like a godmodder. My Sentinels number somewhere in the neighborhood of 10-20 million of all ages, including reservists.

Actually, it is true:

Numbers: 75,000,000

Active in infantry units: 11,000,000
Active in support roles: 20,000,000
Reserves: 30,000,000
Retired: 14,000,000

Now, I can see you've only got 31,000,000 actives but I would query things with this manpower breakdown. Now I quote you:

From the second they are removed from the harvesting machines, they are fed blood, death, and war. Their entire life is spent in training for war, and through 24/7 training they are molded into the perfect soldier. Emotions such as fear and remorse are foreign to them, and they are taught to do exactly as they are told. They are taught that killing is the only thing they live for, and their bloodlust grows every day that they do not spill blood.

Thus I query how one can possibly 'retire' such creatures, I would say you either would have to kill them or put them in some form of rehab program...

As for Reserves... how does one Reserve a sentinal... I assume they will have to undergo a slightly less intense version of what the actives get since they are the reserves. But the point is how can such troops survive without their training as you put it. You've already stated they have little/no emotion etc, so how on earth do they spend their spare time when not killing etc... as you sstated... staring out the window...

In short AMF for your actives alone again you talking trillions... not to mention the potential crime problems of retiried sentinals with huge pent blood lusts etc...


I've RPed the Sentinels for over 450 real life days, and it seems like only now when somebody's ass is on the line are there objections. Quaint.

Thats like me saying i've got uber cannons and really cool shiny soldiers who are next to impossible to kill because I RPed them for X number of days... in short I don't care how long you're RPed them... and to be honest I'm suprised nobody brought up the cost aspect of what you field before...




Really? Doesn't really matter because I think you've got a little number problem i.e. at a guess without number cunching I think you're talking maybe 50 trillion expendature...

[QUOTE=Automagfreek]AMF has many other sources of national income, thus a 37% expenditure does not bankrupt our economy. Since nowhere near $42 trillion is spent a year on the military, that money is circulated back into the economy. Ontop of the fact that Automagfreek belongs to many large trade consortiums that rake in literally trillions. Our ties in NATO, Arda, and The Ministry (our main source of overseas income, seeing as The Ministry sports some of NS's biggest economic monsters), and the fact that I ICly purcahsed The Resi Corporation give us more than enough cash we need to function. Also, your lack of knowledge of AMF and it's regional/tribal/clan community could easily make you think that what I do is not possible. I guess now I'll have to type up an even LONGER factbook entry to appease those like yourself.

Ok... point to make here. You're NS economic strength plus probable trade etc is shown by Thirdgeek. Of course this is very limited, but your not that rich sorry AMF... i'd love you tell me how your economic system works. The Ministry... you go on about this group like mad. I don't care about them or your trade links, when it comes to number crunching you're not that rich AMF. Of course you can try and tell me how you are... i'll be happy to listen, but I suggust you read Sloman's latest edition about Macro-Economics... might explain a few things about why I am finding what you just wrote to be laughable.

Plus you're telling this to someone who has written almost a dozen informative guides on NationStates, several of which dealt with economy and military budgets. I know what I'm doing.

That doesn't mean automatic competancy, it merely means you understand the basis of it, just because you've done X, Y and Z doesn't mean your A) Correct B) Exempt from scruitiny. Your guides maybe fine but to be honest I a more concerned about the glaring holes in your own system, which as far as I can see are unaccounted for.


Look at our economic ties, as well as the value of our currency. Look at my yearly budget of $125,579,971,966,680.05. That leaves me roughly $80 trillon to run my country, which is (in my opinion) MORE than enough.

I think that makes my point for me...

Just a note AMF. Again I stress I have no problem with you OOC, since a lot people would accuse me having such with the tone of above writing. Put it this way, I'm not out to show you up what I am doing is trying to point out a few things to you that need correcting and tidying up. Such as your military numbers, which if I am honest are outrageous for a nation even your size, if you cut down your sentinal and sentinal related forces t'would be fine. But I really suggust you look at the USSR's example...

I was under the impression this was a roleplaying game and not a simulator. The idea is to have fun and write a co-operative story. So I'd like to think there is so much we can get away with.

This said however I can understand where you are coming from... I've made this kinda arguement against many others myself, though in most of those cases we're looking at figures much more obcene then Automagfreek has presented, which are at most unlikely though not completely unfeasable if you remember Automagfreek is actually a near future tech nation in many respects... it's just that everyone seems to interact with him regardless (and this latest case is the same, it started out as an attack against AMF's fleet with a "rouge" sub).

At most I expect a player to be reasonable and in most cases AMF is a reasonable player, he has good quality RP and he doesn't go out of his way to start trouble... people start trouble with him. People know what AMF is like and lets face it, this thread isn't old. If you are going to get invovled with someone it helps to do a bit of research. The information is avialable and even if it wasn't you can ask him yourself. Personally I'm happy enough with AMF's stuff and I have read most of it.

But meh, sort it out among yourselves...

I was under the impression this was a roleplaying game and not a simulator. The idea is to have fun and write a co-operative story. So I'd like to think there is so much we can get away with.

This said however I can understand where you are coming from... I've made this kinda arguement against many others myself, though in most of those cases we're looking at figures much more obcene then Automagfreek has presented, which are at most unlikely though not completely unfeasable if you remember Automagfreek is actually a near future tech nation in many respects... it's just that everyone seems to interact with him regardless (and this latest case is the same, it started out as an attack against AMF's fleet with a "rouge" sub).

At most I expect a player to be reasonable and in most cases AMF is a reasonable player, he has good quality RP and he doesn't go out of his way to start trouble... people start trouble with him. People know what AMF is like and lets face it, this thread isn't old. If you are going to get invovled with someone it helps to do a bit of research. The information is avialable and even if it wasn't you can ask him yourself. Personally I'm happy enough with AMF's stuff and I have read most of it.

But meh, sort it out among yourselves...

Unfortunately AMF’s current escapades are far from cooperative. Granted it is fun to read however his wars are wars which will remove people from almost an entire year or two years worth of work. Nationstates is a cooperative rp game, when the scenario has already been pre-set, however with current wars against former RWC members this is far from corporative.

There are two types of wars in Nationstates. A) Is when it is an already pre-set RP and the outcome is decided so players won’t bitch about stats or numbers as they have a security net as they know what’s going to happen.

And now we have the second type, which is unfortunately the type Automagfreek tends to get involved in.

I say to you.....you are more than welcome, but by doing so you have signed your own death warrant and the death warrants of your entire populace. The following nations have been marked for death by the Excessively Armed Empire and it's entire contingent of allies.Taken from the AMF black list thread

Now here we have AMF telling the players that he has declared war upon that they will, if they lose have to abandon their nations in the current rp circle as there will be nothing left. This of course will generate a slight nervousness around players as they don’t want to see their hard work flushed down the pan.

I was under the impression this was a role playing game and not a simulator. The idea is to have fun and write a co-operative story. So I'd like to think there is so much we can get away with.

The above quote of AMF clearly demonstrates that this is hardly a corporative Role Play, it is a kill or be killed rp, which is the type that almost always ends up in either godmoding or an IGNORE. I think it is perfectly understandable for nations faced with utter destruction to call upon certain statistics such as the AMF army contingent when they are reluctantly facing it.

*shakes head*

Sith, you are one of the most naive people I've come across on this board. You make it sound like I'm some total asshole who's out to take people out of the game permanently. You couldn't be futher from the truth, and you are making the same noobish mistake that ALOT of people in I.I are making.....you assume that my IC actions reflect my OOC attitude.

Do I fight hard? You damn right. Am I out to drive people away from this site? Hell no! Ask Dracun Imperium if I'm some unreasonable asshole. I think he'll tell you I'm quite the opposite, as we've been talking on AIM since our war began.

If you can't clearly tell the difference between my OOC attitude and how I play the game ICly, stop playing NationStates. Seriously, it's people like you who ruin this game for people like me.

Sith,

You have a real problem with OOC and IC. You would expect AMF to say In Character "Hey, guys, lets have a little war...".

Your post shows a lack of understanding of what RP is - and that what is built, can be undone, can be destroyed, can be overrun, can be taken - and its still a fun game.

Ask Allanea sometime how to play after being stomped. Then look for some way to learn better roleplaying skills - the division of IC and OOC is necessary in role playing, as is the understanding that what you see IC is not necessarily what is, OOC.

*shakes head*

Sith, you are one of the most naive people I've come across on this board. You make it sound like I'm some total asshole who's out to take people out of the game permanently. You couldn't be futher from the truth, and you are making the same noobish mistake that ALOT of people in I.I are making.....you assume that my IC actions reflect my OOC attitude.

Do I fight hard? You damn right. Am I out to drive people away from this site? Hell no! Ask Dracun Imperium if I'm some unreasonable asshole. I think he'll tell you I'm quite the opposite, as we've been talking on AIM since our war began.

If you can't clearly tell the difference between my OOC attitude and how I play the game ICly, stop playing NationStates. Seriously, it's people like you who ruin this game for people like me.

OOC: I can quite clearly recognise the difference between your OOC attitudes and IC attitudes AMF, however I know that most of what you speak is absolute rubbish. I know that this war has been egged on by Dr Twist and you. In fact this war and most of its repercussions have been generated by OOC reasons and then coming into IC, which I believe makes your IC/OOC thread hypocritical. Spare me the I have IC reasons, we all know that they are a mask for the OOC ones. Lets face it no nation on RL Earth would do so much over one rogue submarine incident.

Vastiva please pull your nose out of that dark crevasse that is AMF’s ass, I can smell the excrement from here.

Finally, I was merely pointing out the incorrectness to my own viewpoint in Iuthia’s post. AMF you do not always sort your rp’s out OOCly so do not give me that. My post is in all reality true to a certain degree, if you don’t want people like me to continue these statements which are perfectly valid, then don’t ICly go about threatening every nation that you come across. It will make enemies.

OOC2: I know I’m coming across as a real jackass but I really have nothing else to do right now, I apologise for any insult taken AMF however those are my opinions. Do not insult me by telling me I am one of the most naïve people on NS, I am far from it. I understand everything that you are saying however I know a lot of it to be false though I have to be fair it does change from time to time. You say that people should not intermix IC with OOC but it happens all the time, even with you and Dr Twist, need I mention the harvesting of information from the RWC forums?

As for ruining the game, how am I. I am merely posting my own opinion in an OOC format. How can it have an effect on any IC matters?

I know that this war has been egged on by Dr Twist and you.

Assumption.

In fact this war and most of its repercussions have been generated by OOC reasons and then coming into IC, which I believe makes your IC/OOC thread hypocritical.

Another assumption.

Spare me the I have IC reasons, we all know that they are a mask for the OOC ones.

There are no OOC reasons. Stop making assumptions.

Lets face it no nation on RL Earth would do so much over one rogue submarine incident.

This is NationStates, not real life. There aren't 125,671 nations in the real life world, so why are you complaining?

Vastiva please pull your nose out of that dark crevasse that is AMF’s ass, I can smell the excrement from here.

Stop flaming.

Finally, I was merely pointing out the incorrectness to my own viewpoint in Iuthia’s post. AMF you do not always sort your rp’s out OOCly so do not give me that. My post is in all reality true to a certain degree, if you don’t want people like me to continue these statements which are perfectly valid, then don’t ICly go about threatening every nation that you come across. It will make enemies.

That's because alot of people believe the things people like you say, and therefore they think I am an unreasonable asshole and therefore do not want to sort things out. I'm willing to do it only if the other party is. Again, you make too many assumptions.

I know I’m coming across as a real jackass but I really have nothing else to do right now, I apologise for any insult taken AMF however those are my opinions.

Have you ever thought that perhaps your opinions are best left to yourself?

Do not insult me by telling me I am one of the most naïve people on NS, I am far from it. I understand everything that you are saying however I know a lot of it to be false though I have to be fair it does change from time to time. You say that people should not intermix IC with OOC but it happens all the time, even with you and Dr Twist, need I mention the harvesting of information from the RWC forums?

I have not once used RWC intel to my IC benfit, so stop making assumptions. I'm more pissed about the stupid shit HP says behind my back and thinks I know nothing of.

As for ruining the game, how am I. I am merely posting my own opinion in an OOC format. How can it have an effect on any IC matters?

Because others read it and pick up on it, and they believe it to be true. It's funny how in the past month how I went form a 'respected' person to one that is scorned and revered as an asshole. Why, and for what? Because somebody doesn't like how I play the game? Awww.....how sad.

Because others read it and pick up on it, and they believe it to be true. It's funny how in the past month how I went form a 'respected' person to one that is scorned and revered as an asshole. Why, and for what? Because somebody doesn't like how I play the game? Awww.....how sad.


OOC: That is unfortunately the scorn of international incidents, when you declare war upon a large number of nations no matter the IC reasoning behind it. People will resent and dislike it as everyone in II knows everyone. Major conflicts do emit shockwaves of nations scrambling for help or assistance through their almost endless NS contact section. How do I know this as it happened to me.

Militaristic nations in International incidents are despised, more so in modern tech. After all it is an international community so what do you expect? Other nations to smile and just watch as you randomly purge billions of people. (I know they are not real.:P) IC actions have OOC and IC consequences, once again you will say But it should not. But it does. It adds a entire new element to the game which cannot be removed. Heck I am still despised ICly and OOCly because of the Camewot war which was way back March.

OOC: That is unfortunately the scorn of international incidents, when you declare war upon a large number of nations no matter the IC reasoning behind it. People will resent and dislike it as everyone in II knows everyone. Major conflicts do emit shockwaves of nations scrambling for help or assistance through their almost endless NS contact section. How do I know this as it happened to me.

Militaristic nations in International incidents are despised, more so in modern tech. After all it is an international community so what do you expect? Other nations to smile and just watch as you randomly purge billions of people. (I know they are not real.:P) IC actions have OOC and IC consequences, once again you will say But it should not. But it does. It adds a entire new element to the game which cannot be removed. Heck I am still despised ICly and OOCly because of the Camewot war which was way back March.

Actually, Sith, you're reviled because you attempted to stage the death of your own leader, and blame it on everyone else, as an attempt to cause war. Why AMF - or anyone else - has not fired ye olde IGNORE cannons on you, I don't know - its not as though your opinion means anything.

Simply put, AMF is far above your class as an RP'er, always has been, always will be. You don't get it and won't get it. No words will ever fill in the lack of experience and ability you demonstrated in the RPs I've read of yours, and been in with you.

Adieu.

Actually, Sith, you're reviled because you attempted to stage the death of your own leader, and blame it on everyone else, as an attempt to cause war. Why AMF - or anyone else - has not fired ye olde IGNORE cannons on you, I don't know - its not as though your opinion means anything.

Simply put, AMF is far above your class as an RP'er, always has been, always will be. You don't get it and won't get it. No words will ever fill in the lack of experience and ability you demonstrated in the RPs I've read of yours, and been in with you.

Adieu.

OOC: A fine example of what AMF is talking about Vastiva, read his OOC/IC thread as you seem to be having trouble understanding the basic concepts. So what? I tried to start a war. What’s wrong with that. This is international incidents and its hardly worth an Ignore. Once again a prime example of how some nations take IC actions OOCly way too much.

I have never Rp’d with you Vastiva. So where your getting that from I have no idea.

Actually, Sith, you're reviled because you attempted to stage the death of your own leader, and blame it on everyone else, as an attempt to cause war. Why AMF - or anyone else - has not fired ye olde IGNORE cannons on you, I don't know - its not as though your opinion means anything.

Simply put, AMF is far above your class as an RP'er, always has been, always will be. You don't get it and won't get it. No words will ever fill in the lack of experience and ability you demonstrated in the RPs I've read of yours, and been in with you.

Adieu.

OOC:

Vastiva, two words: suck up. If AMF is such an amazing character (I'm not saying he isn't) then why can't he defend himself, oh wait, he can! But you want to keep sticking up for AMF in any discussion, despite him not needing support, just so you can get favour from your holy lord.

I know you will say "But this is OOC," I know it is, but sadly OOC and IC are hard to separate in NS.[/bastard-mode]

Sorry for being so harsh but I really believe that AMF can fight his own battles, I hope this doesn't affect any future IC relations in the future, but it might because you might be pissed at me for whatever reason, it's not your fault or anything, it's human nature.

And to AMF, while you are an excellent [b]writer, as an RPer, you could learn to take some losses, but then again, the information on which I'm basing this opinion could be flawed or the fabrication of a bored mind.

EDIT: This is Kriegorgrad, by the way.

I was under the impression this was a roleplaying game and not a simulator. The idea is to have fun and write a co-operative story. So I'd like to think there is so much we can get away with.

This said however I can understand where you are coming from... I've made this kinda arguement against many others myself, though in most of those cases we're looking at figures much more obcene then Automagfreek has presented, which are at most unlikely though not completely unfeasable if you remember Automagfreek is actually a near future tech nation in many respects... it's just that everyone seems to interact with him regardless (and this latest case is the same, it started out as an attack against AMF's fleet with a "rouge" sub).

At most I expect a player to be reasonable and in most cases AMF is a reasonable player, he has good quality RP and he doesn't go out of his way to start trouble... people start trouble with him. People know what AMF is like and lets face it, this thread isn't old. If you are going to get invovled with someone it helps to do a bit of research. The information is avialable and even if it wasn't you can ask him yourself. Personally I'm happy enough with AMF's stuff and I have read most of it.

But meh, sort it out among yourselves...

Yeah, I can see the point. But what i am trying to say to NS and particullarily AMF, who is a role model (rightly or wrongly) for many younger NS players is sort your numbers out. It doesn't take a genius to see a lot of the things I pointed out, but some general suggustions to AMF:

A) Reduce your Sentinal forces or at least clarify a few things. (HH did some number crunching and we worked out you'd be paying two trillion USD for your active sentinals extremely basic upkeep, non-combat and without bases and support personnel's wages). If you want keep the Sentinals reduce the amount of 'Freeks' to reservists or something.

B) Sort out your military spending generally. A basic pie chart would be great.

You do great role plays AMF, but you need to tweek your stats a bit. I'd be happy to check them for you if you'd like, plus I also suggust you be a bit more reasonable as regards you IC demands on other nations. Since saying i'm going to annex/destroy your whole country generally puts people's backs against the wall and means less fun RP's etc.

Just general advice, but feel free to TG me with anything else.

OOC: This is not meant to offend anyone.
Like AMF said, we have been talking over aim since the war begin, and any accusations that he is an asshole well they should not be said.

I thought this as I read this, and it has happened several times to other nations. No one had a promblem with AMF till now. Everyone accepted his military stats, more or less.

But why now is everyone carring? Just because they don't want to loose their nation, hell I am a actualy looking forward to it. It should make things more interesting as the Dracun Remnant becomes the new Dracun.

I think when or if we loose a war it makes us better Role Players. So accept it, because we have less to wank on people we have to use strategy.

Also AMF IC want your nation dead, OOC: He doesn't want you to leave the game. Those are two differnt things OOC and IC, so try to distinguish the difference.

So suck it up.

Again I dont mean to offend anyone with this post

ooc: AMF, do you have numbers for fighters, aircraft carriers, battleships, tanks, etc. Do Sentinels crew and support said machines?

Anyway, I don't think raised from birth soldiers are particularly the best. The Bonstocknian soldier, while merely a poorly trained conscript with second rate weaponry, has a certain detirmination to defend his country in a way a mindless killing machine like a Sentinel does not. Often, they have families, wives, mothers, children, that they feel a certain responsibility to defend at all costs. Though this equation means they have very little detirmination when fighting on foreign soil (in which case their detirmination is only to survive until their 6 month tour of duty ends), when it comes to defending Bonstocknian soil, they become fanatical defenders, despite a corruption of their regime at home. All simply because they have been given so much by their homeland, and want to defend their families and their home.

So, while it may seem like Sentinels are the perfect fighting force, in some cases you just can't beat a guy with a Kalishnikov and the sheer detirmination to die before loosing all he holds dear.

Anyway, the Bonstocknian military has some 30 million conscripts, of which only one eighth serve in actual field combat. All Bonstocknians, women included, must serve one year of service, 6 months training and 6 months active duty.

OOC: Sigh. I think I'll stick to wargames where the computer does the calculations. :rolleyes:

As for Sentinels... well in ye olde W40K, Space Marines are 'the ultimate fighting force' and they weren't nearly as interesting to read as the Imperial Guard for me (actually I felt they were wankers, but that's not my point :D ).

Isn't it possible that AMF can just carry on as he is, though? Live and let live? If you want to RP together, maybe finding some IC reason to level the playing field (countries don't use their ENTIRE army to attack someone after all, they have to cover their own arse). NS's statistics are also very simplified, even compared to other games; they're not worth losing sleep over (the notion of running a 4 1/2 billion pop country is mind-boggling. That's not far off our current RL world population. Countries' populations don't always expand over time). Unfortunately, this entire intimidating size issue seems to be inherent to the Nation States RP. Much like the tabletop world, I think small wars are more fun :)

[OOC- Damn straight Arkonia. Space Marines are wankers. They're worse then the Elder, if you get what I'm saying. *Wink Wink, Nudge Nudge, Poke Poke*

And as others are putting up points far better then I am, here's a short and simple one. Suck it up, all of you. If you don't like the way someone RPs, don't RP with them. If you have to, get a fair and impartial negotiator to decide damage, effects of weapons, etc...

Quit whining, all of you, and start RPing.

I certainly hope this offended all of you and got you to realize just how dumb it is to argue over something as meaningless as this. There's an ignore feature on these forums where you don't see any of one user's posts. If you don't like the way someone RPs, use it, don't bitch about their RPing.

That is all. (Hmmm, that was longer then I thought it would be)]

o.o.c. as a newbie ultarmarines player, I would sasy 'nids are wankers. I digress.


Look everyone is entitled to their opinion. That doesn't mean they right though. If anyone is affected by what one person says then their idiots. Pay them no heed.

ooc: Ultramarines? Ultramarines?

How terribly common.

ooc: Ultramarines? Ultramarines?

How terribly common.

all about the Dark angels/Imperial guard mechanised. Ages since i last played, got too expensive /highjack

To contradict my allys i think AMF could well afford the amount of troops he says he does. Problem is we dont know how many tanks, ships etc. You have so it looks like your going to have millions of them judging by your infantry. That would increase costs greatly and i think the lack of up to date numbers of your airforce, navy and armour is the root of most of your problems. I take form most of your rps that you use very few tanks and such so i think these numbers are exceptable if my assumptions are right.

ooc: Ultramarines? Ultramarines?

How terribly common.
I already said I was a newbie. I wanted an army with alot of documented painting tips. Lay off me. At least I have access to several really cool characters and units. :p

ooc: But everybody walks into a store and finds a tactical squad pressed into their arms. Take my advice, collect fantasy instead, it's sooooo much better, more tactical, and has better characters.

Actually, the way AMF's army comes across is one that relies heavily on light infantry and doesn't have much in the way of mechanized troops. Alternately, the Sentinals could just be AMF's general (for lack of a better word) troops that can individually trained to do a certain task, like be an infantryman or a gunner for an MBT.

Alternately, the Sentinals could just be AMF's general (for lack of a better word) troops that can individually trained to do a certain task, like be an infantryman or a gunner for an MBT.

Bingo.

I do use artillery and ground armor, it's just their roles in my war RP's tend to get downplayed (by others) because of how I RP my Sentinels.

Picking up slightly on Huzen Hagen's thing... I always wondered what other (non-infantry) stuff you had, AMF. Notably naval hardware and any special designs. Also, what is Skynet and a Technology Missile? Are there any threads about them?

The following OOC is not a criticism of anyone but it is a criticism of GDP calculators.

I'd say, that seeing as this thread has died I will pull third geek or any GDP calc apart. Im an economist, basically the flaw with the GDP calcs are that they use the US as a template for everything and so fail to make a large number of important assumptions.

1) The USA is not a "Frightening" or "All consuming" economy. It's fair to say it's a powerhouse but it is no more. It is possible to have a higher GDP per head than $40000, infact I beleive luxembourg has in RL. Anyway, that's the first error. Your GDP is systematically too low whoever you are, especially at the top end. I would describe the UK as having a "very strong" or "thriving" economy. It doesnt pull whole regions along, but it's still able to splatter smaller economies with a few tariffs. Now think about how wrong that makes any GDP calc.

2) A nation which takes all the income away must pay for everything. The spending figures are taken straight out of NS, which has lots of nice variables and such like which works as far as the nation page goes. However the way it conveys the information means that spending priorities such as "food" and "water" and "shelter" and "Street lighting" . Military spending is never going to exceed 20% of GDP in any circumstances. And in a mighty economy like AMF, mine or even Germany in RL, it will never exceed 10%.

3) Income tax isnt the only tax. SO your government will be slightly larger than it's income tax %, though the higher income tax the less the amount above that rate it will take of the economy. Just a thought.

Enough said.

Anyway, firstly that means your GDP should be much much higher. Secondly, it means your spending should be much lower. You being anyone who trusts the calculators to closely.

You should in fairness just pick a % of GDP to spend on military that reflects your government size (below a certain size government you wont have a huge military budget, even with 20%VAT and so on without income tax you arent going to have 10% of GDP spent on defense) and your mentality.

Notquiteplace has a large government and paranoid but not aggressive people. We spend 8% of GDP on defense, we have high technology (post modern again, normal troops with slightly extraordinary equipment) and I assume a $40000 GDP as our economy is frightening, (but sometimes dips to all consuming) I'd say it's a fair estimate.

EDIT: I think it's safe to assume any militaristically strong nation with a half decent budget would have some defense. RPing an unusual system would mean perhaps it might be above average, but I get the feeling AMF's is no frills, but very efficient.

In principle, I agree with NQAP. Frankly I've learned to formulate my own budget using CSJ's post on the matter as a guide. About the only thing I really disagree with is big!government = big!spending. I believe, and practice, that an efficient government coupled with a relatively small income tax will in the end give you more spending flexibility. Now, that doesn't one should spend gobs of money on defense, it just means you can. Personally I don't spend more than 8% of my GDP on defense, but at the same time it's my biggest budget item, tied with L&O and education.

Picking up slightly on Huzen Hagen's thing... I always wondered what other (non-infantry) stuff you had, AMF. Notably naval hardware and any special designs. Also, what is Skynet and a Technology Missile? Are there any threads about them?


Skynet was an AI controlled ballistic missile defense net that I created, but ended up stopping because too many people whined that they could no longer nuke me. :rolleyes:

No clue what a 'Techology Missile' is.

My naval hardware is based off of current US naval ships, but since I'm post-modern tech they have a few things that are still in testing in real life, such as large rail drivers and AI assited defensive measures. I had a shitload of other creative designs besides infantry and naval stuff, but alot of it got stopped due to too much bitching from others. None of it was godmodding, it's just some people didn't like the fact that I had so many cool toys.

Oh, I did forget to mention in my last post that I do have heavy infantry elements, they're called the Death Dealers, I'm sure most of you have heard of them.

Thanks.

I dont know what a technology missile is either, but apparently you made them, so whatever :/

Thanks.

I dont know what a technology missile is either, but apparently you made them, so whatever :/

Naw, Armed Knights (now Hawaiian Islands) made them.