NationStates Jolt Archive

In response to the disgusting, cowardly assassination of the Credonian Presidential Family by the traitorious Cuddlebugs scumbags, and several terrorist threats, Emperor Tamazoid I at 11:10AM AEDST today authorised the subsequent invasion of Cuddlebugs in retalliation.

The following forces are all en route NOW, with the 22nd Marine Infantry Division currently landing in Cuddlebugs, with the air force conducting air strike in prelude to further action.

u69th Attack Task Force
1 Cygnus Strike Carrier (30 F-14s)
10 Adelaide Class MTDs
16 ANZAC Class Frigates
5 Collins Class submarines
2 Huon Class minehunters
1 Durance Class Supply vessel (also is a hospital ship)
30 Sea Sprite helicopters

2nd Battle Fleet
25 Adelaide Class MTDs
30 ANZAC Class Frigates
25 Aegis Destroyers
12 Collins Class submarines
1 Huon Class minehunter
75 Sea Sprite helicopters

28th Landing Transports
100 Kanimbla landing craft
50 Jervis Bay transports
5 ANZAC Class frigates

17th Strategic Wing
-38th Fighter Squadron
20 F-22 Raptors
15 F-15Es
-303rd Stealth Bomber Squadron
35 B-2 bombers

18th Strategic Wing
-39th Fighter Squadron
20 F-22 Raptors
15 F-15Es
-304th Stealth Bomber Squadron
35 B-2 bombers

22nd Marine Infantry Division
25,000 troops
150 Medics
225 Leopard II tanks
50 Kennett Mobile SAMs
80 Bradley APCs
50 Land Rover Discoverys

3rd Air Drop Transportation Wing
-5th Transport Squadron
10 C-130 Hercules
30 Chinooks
-6th Transport Squadron
10 C-130 Hercules
30 Chinooks
-7th Transport Squadron
10 C-130 Hercules
30 Chinooks

Yeah, I'd call ths off.

.... Do you have evdince that they did it ?

http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=112644&start=140
http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=115676

bump

It looks to me like the GLA assasin killed the cuttlebugs president. Wouldn't that mean they aren't working together?

I think this is just another act of a "me too" nation empowering Credonian imperialism.

Credonia is not an imperialist nation. Isochronous does not tolerate terrorists and we will hunt every single one of them down. I have conclusive intelligence which shows that Cuddlebugs are a terrorist threat which needs to be neutralised and destroyed.

IC: We still aren't seeing any evidence. In fact, from our vantage point. It would appear that the GLA operative was working alone, based on the fact that he assasinated the Cuttlebugs' president (Something the Cuttlebugsian government would not have condoned.)

The GLA & Cuddlebugs have been leaving an obvious trail without realising. We are acting on this and we know what we are doing.

Evidence is classified and there is no need for us to waste time taking the world on a tour of our Intelligence Agency headquarters.

Obvious trail? We have been over the events several times. Unless you use the IP trace (Which can't count because it is an OOC reason), there is no indication that the Cuttlebugs government had anything to do with the assasination.

What reason is there to classify the evidence? What are you trying to hide from the world? Or rather, what are you trying to make the world believe you are hiding?

The world has a nasty tendancy to require evidence before someone invades a country on major charges like this.

Indeed. Once again, I believe this is just another act of Credonian imperialism being enforced by a larger nation with a bigger army. This type of thing is why Credonia is a terrorist target in the first place. :roll:

Indeed. Once again, I believe this is just another act of Credonian imperialism being enforced by a larger nation with a bigger army. This type of thing is why Credonia is a terrorist target in the first place. :roll:

Now, your evidence of Credonian imperialism?

GLA and the Cuddlebugs have the same ISP and also have posted within very soon after each other...

Thus 5CN concludes that they are the same...

Exactly.

So what? This isn't real. Just because the same person plays the two nations doesnt mean they are on the same side. I have two nations and have though about sending them to war against each other, so weould that count as them being on the same side?

Attack the GLA instead

The IP trace is an OOC reason. You can't invade because of it. Think of it like this:

I own Central Facehuggeria, and another nation called Of Xenocide. Now Central Facehuggeria and OX don't get along too well so lets say that Of Xenocide sets off a nuke in your country. You would be fully within your rights to attack Of Xenocide because of it. However, you couldn't attack Central Facehuggeria just because I run both countries. Heck, I would probably help you annhilate Of Xenocide (and I would finally get to annex the sneaky little buggers!) OOCly I own both nations, so I'm responsible for their actions. But ICly, they are both run by seperate governments, so you can't attack both nations for what one did to you. Understand now?


But you can't really attack the GLA either because they aren't a real nation. They are a cell based terrorist organization (which is damn near impossible to root out unless you start mass murdering civilians.)

That won't stop them. Their real goal is to destroy and control any nations that they damn well please, hence IMPERIALISM.

That won't stop them. Their real goal is to destroy and control any nations that they damn well please, hence IMPERIALISM.

No, our goal is to eliminate terrorist threats to our nations. Fullstop. If you can't handle that because you're an appeaser and are too scared to do anything, too bad, because others will do it for you.

Once again, Cuddlebugs is NOT a terrorist threat. They are a terrorist VICTIM. If you want to attack them for an OOC reason, namely the fact that they are run by the same person as GLA, then I would strongly advise that any sensible nation condemn this act of warmongering, and I would ALSO strongly advise that when Cuddlebugs sees this, they ignore it rather than accept the poor RP of waging war on nations for OOC reasons.

Now, where is this proof I keep hearing about? And no the IP trace doesn't count for the reasons above.

OOC: First of all, you are kidnapping the thread.

Now, IRL, we have no doubt that GLA and Cuddlebugs are the same person. So the question is whether this counts ICly or not.

Let's look at what we know ICly:
1. A high, trusted member of the CB gov't was in GLA. A logical conclusion is that he had help.
2. The terrorist snuck an Uzi into the room... how'd he do that without help?

Now, do IP and grammar checks count ICly? Well if I was to come in here telling you that I had intel that GLA controlled Cuddlebugs, you'd ask me to prove it. If I had no OOC reason, you'd just all ignore me. So then if I have OOC backup to the IC intel, I am justified.

You may call this imperialism if you want. Kisnesia stands by Isochronous, and considers this war just.

Yes a high person was in the employ of the GLA, but then he did kill the highest person in Cuddlebugs, THE PRESIDENT!!!!!!!!!!!!

And why did he have an UZI? because he was the head of security and was trusted.

No you cannot use the IP address because it could be brothers/partners/friends ect who use the computers. And even if they are the same person it still dosen't corrolate to them fighting on the same side.

The Peoples Republic of Fairweather Eden offers full support to the nation of Cuddlebugs. Our govenement feels great sympathy for you over the assasination of your president. We are prepared to deploy five combat teams within your borders should any nation attack you to aid you in your defence. They are prepared and can be there in less than an hour all you have to do is ask.

We urge all other governments to offer similar help, and prevent this unfair, and unjust war.

The Peoples republic of Fairweather Eden issued a statement ordering all foreing nationals to leave the country with immediate effect. Extra flights to countries have been laid on. In 24 hours any foreing nationals who have not presented themselves at an international airport will be arrested and deported to their own country.

Our government appolozises for any inconvienience, and of course we will pay all costs for air travel.

The borders are being reinforced with our army, anyone caught attempting to enter will be arrested, interogated and then either face charges of spying or be deported as we feel is necessary.

These steps are considered necessary for the protection of our people. Any citizens of our glorius country are asked to return home immediately and not to leave the country.

The Peoples republic of Fairweather Eden issued a statement ordering all foreing nationals to leave the country with immediate effect. Extra flights to countries have been laid on. In 24 hours any foreing nationals who have not presented themselves at an international airport will be arrested and deported to their own country.

Our government appolozises for any inconvienience, and of course we will pay all costs for air travel.

The borders are being reinforced with our army, anyone caught attempting to enter will be arrested, interogated and then either face charges of spying or be deported as we feel is necessary.

These steps are considered necessary for the protection of our people. Any citizens of our glorius country are asked to return home immediately and not to leave the country.

The Peoples republic of Fairweather Eden issued a statement ordering all foreing nationals to leave the country with immediate effect. Extra flights to countries have been laid on. In 24 hours any foreing nationals who have not presented themselves at an international airport will be arrested and deported to their own country.

Our government appolozises for any inconvienience, and of course we will pay all costs for air travel.

The borders are being reinforced with our army, anyone caught attempting to enter will be arrested, interogated and then either face charges of spying or be deported as we feel is necessary.

These steps are considered necessary for the protection of our people. Any citizens of our glorius country are asked to return home immediately and not to leave the country.

The Dark Legions of Skullzz is currently prepping its armed forces for deployment to Cuddlebugs. We WILL not allow this act of imperialism to go unchecked. Until you can provide a valid IC reason to attack them, we will do everything we can to protect an innocent nation from your hostile actions.

OOC: A January nation mobilizes force and a September nation stays uninvolved?!? I'd NEVER hear the end of that! :wink:

---Post deleted by NationStates Moderators---

OOC: First of all, you are kidnapping the thread.

Now, IRL, we have no doubt that GLA and Cuddlebugs are the same person. So the question is whether this counts ICly or not.

Let's look at what we know ICly:
1. A high, trusted member of the CB gov't was in GLA. A logical conclusion is that he had help.
2. The terrorist snuck an Uzi into the room... how'd he do that without help?

Now, do IP and grammar checks count ICly? Well if I was to come in here telling you that I had intel that GLA controlled Cuddlebugs, you'd ask me to prove it. If I had no OOC reason, you'd just all ignore me. So then if I have OOC backup to the IC intel, I am justified.

You may call this imperialism if you want. Kisnesia stands by Isochronous, and considers this war just.

Now lets take a look at what we know ICly:
1. A high and trusted bodyguard who's last statements pretty much confirm that he turned traitor due to the GLA's easy money has an UZI. With this weapon, he guns down the Credonian president's family. He probably had the gun because he was a trusted bodyguard.
2. He also killed the Cuttlebugs president . This means that he wasn't working with the Cuttlebugs government.
Unless you can provide more solid evidence, then your cause isn't just, and the nations of the world won't stand for it.

OOC: First of all, you are kidnapping the thread.

Now, IRL, we have no doubt that GLA and Cuddlebugs are the same person. So the question is whether this counts ICly or not.

Let's look at what we know ICly:
1. A high, trusted member of the CB gov't was in GLA. A logical conclusion is that he had help.
2. The terrorist snuck an Uzi into the room... how'd he do that without help?

Now, do IP and grammar checks count ICly? Well if I was to come in here telling you that I had intel that GLA controlled Cuddlebugs, you'd ask me to prove it. If I had no OOC reason, you'd just all ignore me. So then if I have OOC backup to the IC intel, I am justified.

You may call this imperialism if you want. Kisnesia stands by Isochronous, and considers this war just.

Now lets take a look at what we know ICly:
1. A high and trusted bodyguard who's last statements pretty much confirm that he turned traitor due to the GLA's easy money has an UZI. With this weapon, he guns down the Credonian president's family. He probably had the gun because he was a trusted bodyguard.
2. He also killed the Cuttlebugs president . This means that he wasn't working with the Cuttlebugs government.
Unless you can provide more solid evidence, then your cause isn't just, and the nations of the world won't stand for it.

IC:
Kisnesia issues the following warning to all nations considering deploying troops to Cuddlebugs:
Kisnesia does not consider you an enemy unless you have specifically provided funding or supplies to a terrorist organization. While you have every right in the world to object to an invasion of Cuddlebugs, supporting a state known for terrorist activities would associate you with terrorist activities as well. We strongly encourage you to instead help us find a peaceful solution, in which the government of Cuddlebugs is replaced by one that does not support terror.

OOC:
Let's say I control nations AAA and BBB. AAA is old enough to have nukes on their own, while BBB is not. You control CCC. BBB has a nuke and plants it somehow in CCC.
Now, since you insist that BBB must provide evidence of how they got a nuke, you bring AAA into the conversation. If AAA denies selling the nuke to BBB, then the causes for war are debateable.
But if CCC knows that AAA and BBB are controlled by the same OOC person, is CCC going to assume that the nuke came from AAA? Absolutely, and they have warrant to invade.

IC:
Kisnesia issues the following warning to all nations considering deploying troops to Cuddlebugs:
Kisnesia does not consider you an enemy unless you have specifically provided funding or supplies to a terrorist organization. While you have every right in the world to object to an invasion of Cuddlebugs, supporting a state known for terrorist activities would associate you with terrorist activities as well. We strongly encourage you to instead help us find a peaceful solution, in which the government of Cuddlebugs is replaced by one that does not support terror.

OOC:
Let's say I control nations AAA and BBB. AAA is old enough to have nukes on their own, while BBB is not. You control CCC. BBB has a nuke and plants it somehow in CCC.
Now, since you insist that BBB must provide evidence of how they got a nuke, you bring AAA into the conversation. If AAA denies selling the nuke to BBB, then the causes for war are debateable.
But if CCC knows that AAA and BBB are controlled by the same OOC person, is CCC going to assume that the nuke came from AAA? Absolutely, and they have warrant to invade.

OOC: No, they don't have an IC warrant to invade. If the AAA government says, ICly that they didn't give the BBB government the nukes, you have to believe them until you come up with IC evidence to the contrary. Attacking because of OOC reasons is one of the hallmarks of n00bishness. You are making an assumption that you can't make. Just because someone owns two nations doesn't mean they are working together.

IC: Kisnesia and her allies have not yet provided any sembelence of evidence towards the Cuttlebugs-Terrorist connection. In fact, the evidence points to a severe disdain between the GLA and Cuttlebugs. (Like one dead Cuttlebugsian president)

OOC: No, they don't have an IC warrant to invade. If the AAA government says, ICly that they didn't give the BBB government the nukes, you have to believe them until you come up with IC evidence to the contrary. Attacking because of OOC reasons is one of the hallmarks of n00bishness. You are making an assumption that you can't make. Just because someone owns two nations doesn't mean they are working together.

IC: Kisnesia and her allies have not yet provided any sembelence of evidence towards the Cuttlebugs-Terrorist connection. In fact, the evidence points to a severe disdain between the GLA and Cuttlebugs. (Like one dead Cuttlebugsian president)

OOC: Then is it fair for CCC to say to BBB, "You don't really have a nuke, since no one will claim it" ? And yes, it is obvious that GLA/Cuddlebugs were working together to set up this plot line.

There are n00bish OOC reasons to invade, and ones that aren't. A n00bish reason would be "So and so insulted me!" A valid OOC reason would be "So and so is supporting my enemy!" This is the case here.

IC: While Kisnesia is not actively donating troops to this cause, we ARE supporting Isochronous in its actions. Our forces are embroiled in Terristan at the moment.

OOC: Then is it fair for CCC to say to BBB, "You don't really have a nuke, since no one will claim it" ? And yes, it is obvious that GLA/Cuddlebugs were working together to set up this plot line.

There are n00bish OOC reasons to invade, and ones that aren't. A n00bish reason would be "So and so insulted me!" A valid OOC reason would be "So and so is supporting my enemy!" This is the case here.

IC: While Kisnesia is not actively donating troops to this cause, we ARE supporting Isochronous in its actions. Our forces are embroiled in Terristan at the moment.

Yes. You are perfectly within your rights to ignore BBB if no one will claim their nuke (OOCly, so you know they didn't just pull the nuke out of their hat.) This is to prevent nations from cheating themselves 120904980 noox because an unnamed and probably non-existant ally gave nukes to them.

A valid reason is "So and so is supporting my enemy" but only if he is ICly supporting him. Just because he supports your enemy OOCly isn't a good reason to attack someone.

Now if you have IC proof that Cuttlebugs is supporting GLA Terrorists, I'll gladly step aside, and I'm sure the other nations will as well. But if you don't, you and Isochronous should take a look at your target. Try and annhilate the GLA, that will probably result in a few good RPs, but a war with cuttlebugs won't be very exciting. Plus, unless you and Ischronous can provide good evidence, you two will probably gain a bad rep as imperialists if Ischronous goes through with the invasion.

Yes. You are perfectly within your rights to ignore BBB if no one will claim their nuke (OOCly, so you know they didn't just pull the nuke out of their hat.) This is to prevent nations from cheating themselves 120904980 noox because an unnamed and probably non-existant ally gave nukes to them.

So are we within our rights to ignore GLA, since they claim to have a massive support network, but produce no names (for obvious reasons)?

Isochronous and others are accusing Cuddlebugs of having staged the assasination of the leader of Credonia, our ally. While the President himself is not necessarily suspect, we believe that the Cuddlebuggian (... I guess that's what you'd say) Government is controlled in the background by the GLA.

If the cuddlebugian Governement was supported by the GLA then wouldnt the assaisnation have taken plkace at a point where the assasin could be supported by others allowing his gettaway? Since he died it would be logical to assume he had no backup hence no one else high up at least is involved with the GLA.

And you cannot use the fact that the same person may or may not control it for the following reasons

a) Your character doesnt know about the IP trace. You may know about it but you are OOC when you become IC you dont know this. After all you are not sat at a computer cointroling words, you are sat in an opffice with no knoledge that this is just a game.

b) I may control two nations one of which is a terorist nation, one of which isnt. If i chose to attack a country with my terrorist nation I would use my other nation to help against the terrorist nation as it is anti terrorist. Then you come along and use an IP trace which says I am the same person and attack Fairweather Eden for helping terrorism, when this is not the case. That is not logical and unfair as despite what my nations are and what they are doing you assume they are the same which they are not (by the way I dont have terrorist nations as this is my only one).

c) It may not even be the same person who controls them. I vcould have a brother who is only allowed onto the interent immediately after me for a short amount of time due to the cost of the call. Hence I post, then he posts, same IP address similar times of posting yet diffrent characters.

Finally to attack a nation because of an insult would be a valid reason if that player insulted you in character. The situation escalates and a war begins all because of an insult (this doesn't mean that an insult OOC counts though)

IC: Today the Fairweather Eden Governement gave authortiy to the police to remove all foreing nationals. 23 people have been detained on charges of spying while another 40 have been removed from our country.

There were protests on the border by several people who claimed we had no rights to stop travel. They were given 5 hours to leave the border before they would be arrested. They did not. All are now being held for questioning.

The military forces have been recalled to full operational stregth, and they are prepared to deploy at our border at the slightest sign of trouble.

OK, how can you call me imperialistic if i havent even so much as ordered any type of military mobilization against the nation of cuddlebugs??? Not only that, this is the first time ive posted in this thread.

Hi credonia. Only one person has claimed its an act of your Imperialism, one other person as an act of other nations emnpowering you imperialism. Hopefully you will agree with my eariler posts about ISP's and how they cannot be use in a roleplay, and will help convince the other people to step down.

Also as cuddlebugs has not responded to this thread or a telegram I sent him I am assuming that he intends to ignore this thread and so anything that is said or done will count for nothing.

OOC: This is my first nation bear with me. I've done my best to understand the issues and I have to say that it is my opinion that ICly the IP "evidence" of collusion is inadmissable in the game.

IC:
Tír Dannan condemns any action take against cuddlebugs. As a nuetral country however it is not within our scope to aid in any other way than by our political and moral abhorrence at this apparent gun-jumping on the part of Fairweather Eden.

I'm not threating Cuddle bugs in any way. I have mearly stated if anyone invades them for this and Cuddlebugs does RP it then our armies will join their side against the invaders.

I'm not threating Cuddle bugs in any way. I have mearly stated if anyone invades them for this and Cuddlebugs does RP it then our armies will join their side against the invaders. Also my govenrment felt that there was a chance of the invading countries spying on our governement, and a risk of sabotage. This risk (0.01%) was deemed to be to high so we naturally took precautionary measures. We have invited all of the peoples forced to leave to return once the crisis is over, at our expense, and have not charged them for their return flights to whereever they wished to go. All foreign nationals have now been released and returned to their homes in foreign countries.

I'm not threating Cuddle bugs in any way. I have mearly stated if anyone invades them for this and Cuddlebugs does RP it then our armies will join their side against the invaders. Also my govenrment felt that there was a chance of the invading countries spying on our governement, and a risk of sabotage. This risk (0.01%) was deemed to be to high so we naturally took precautionary measures. We have invited all of the peoples forced to leave to return once the crisis is over, at our expense, and have not charged them for their return flights to whereever they wished to go. All foreign nationals have now been released and returned to their homes in foreign countries.
OOC: Mistake, getting used to the names here.
IC: Tir Dannan apologises profusely for any distress caused, the previous message had been relayed via our Tribe-City office where it was changed mistakenly by a junior official. The original message was meant for Kisnesia.

To allies of Credonia in this conflict
A peace treaty has been signed by Credonia and other allies and Cuddlebugs is now part of the Fruit Islands, so attacking would only make worse our already tense relationship with Terristan so i must STRONGLY advise against it. I will be getting in contact with the Terristanian governement to arrange something that will allow neutral forces to search Cuddlebugs for terrorist leads (the most likely nation to do that is Ozy V. as Terristan has allowed them to search their nation for terrorists and links to terrorists).

The Peoples Rebuplic of Fairweather Eden applaudes Credonia for its actions. Our armed forces have stepped down and any who left our country are now free to return for an all expenses paid vaction.