NationStates Jolt Archive

For over a year now I've played a game called Operation Flashpoint. This game is a very, very realistic game. More so than any you're most likely played.

It's producers also make a tactical simulation called "VBS1". This is used as a training program by the United States Marine Corps, and Operation Flashpoint (OFP for short) works in nearly the exact same way, and uses some of the same vehicles and weapons.

I want to use OFP to create some simulations, you will be presented with a scenario and have to decide the best course of action. I want to know who and how many people might want to give this a shot. Each scenario people could present their idea on how to defend/attack succesfully. But I'd like to see first off how many people will do this, so my efforts will not be in vein.

Plus it will show you how much, or how little you may know about tactics in same basic warfare scenarios.

There will be no human intervention on either side. It will be AI fighting AI. I will observe the conflict through a neutral UAV, taking count of who wins, and taking screenshots along the way.

Great game.

Hmmm. Sounds interesting. So let me get this straight.....you suggest a tactic for how to deal with the situation, and the AI does it for you?

Does this belong in II?

Does this belong in II?

Since RP wars go on here, I thought this would be a good place to show people some tactics, without having to reach far.

And this is somewhat RP. Call it a Joint Training Program.

Hmmm. Sounds interesting. So let me get this straight.....you suggest a tactic for how to deal with the situation, and the AI does it for you?

Yes, you tell me what tactic or approach you think best, and I will give the AI waypoints to do so. They will move where you have requested, and duke it out. I will watch through a UAV to find the winner.

For you to base your decisions, I will provide, at the very least:

Estimated enemy strength
Relatively Accurate Intel
What they will have (within reason, you wont know everything your enemy will have)
What you have to work with.

I'm putting together an example scenario right now to let you guys see how it works.

I'm interested, it should prove to be fun. Besides, it will probably improve my tactical thinking.

Sounds good to me

It sounds interesting and of course the ability to quickly share missions means that people could define thier own plans too...


Oh the p[ossibilities, if i coudl actually do any modding i would have loved a Crookfur army mod ;)

Sounds pretty intresting.

Ahh some OFP players here I see. This will make it more intresting. Are you guys on the official forums too?

forum.bistudio.com


PS. Posting a scenario in this thread right after I post thiss

Here is an example:




Today you will be trying to take a small town. This town is fortified by enemy forces, and they are blocking our way to an important east coast port on this island. The enemy town is believed to have a light to medium amount of ground forces. Esitmates from forward recon say between twenty to thirty armed and on foot. Two stationaly tanks behind cover are covering the west and north roadss and treelines. Tanks are said to be possibly T-64's or T-55's

They have no fuel though, thanks to recent raids, we have considerably cut the fuel amount reaching this area.

[Map of area around the town]

map (http://www.tacticalblunder.com/~uploads/Harnu/NSWG0-1.jpg)

Roads lead into the town from the Northeast and Southwest. Dense forest is on it's southern edge, and has several small patrols going through it all the time.

To the east is the shore. Taking this route would be an uphill battle.

The entire town is elavated somewhat and has a good view of the surrounding area.

A UAV was damaged and took photos. Unfortunately it's camera is somewhat outdated and the UAV took some fire, so it isn't that clear.

Photo (http://www.tacticalblunder.com/~uploads/Harnu/NSWG0-2.jpg)

Recon Summary

Town is in a good defensive position
Town is fortified on North to the West sides
Uphill eastern route
Dense forest to the south
Two tanks in defensive positions
Approx 20 to 30 foot soldiers


Available Resources:

3xfive man, USMC fire teams
1xM2A2 Bradley
1xLAV225
3xLaws and men to use them
2xSMAW's and men to use them

(LAWs and SMAWS are light infantry anti-tank weapons)


We request your choice on how to take this town.

tag

I say you attack through the forest with the infantry to distract the enemy forces, then blitz through the west with the vehicles and get the enemy in between.

Even though I would have said yes, this is in the wrong forum, so I said no.

MODALERT :arrow: General

I agree with Nanakaland... I'd like to try this out if possible...

Even though I would have said yes, this is in the wrong forum, so I said no.

MODALERT :arrow: General

This is more or less a "signup" of sorts for this RP. Why move it to general? I'm going to make it into an RP thread. But more than knowning who is doing this, I want to find out how many.

@ Barentsburg and Central Facehuggeria, I will try your tactics soon.

I say you attack through the forest with the infantry to distract the enemy forces, then blitz through the west with the vehicles and get the enemy in between.

Before I suggest a strategy, what is the reinforcement/reserve situation for both sides? If the enemy has reserves nearby, you should follow CF's suggest. But if the enemy has little reserves, I suggest that you probe them first to find out both the constitution, the location of their forces, and better intelligence. If you have heavy reserves you should fight a war of attrition, wearing down the enemy than striking...

Move everything up from the south between the two roads. One fire team, the armour, and anti-tank troops should be the main push with a fire team on each side of the spearhead to cover the flanks. The attack should be purely blitzkrieg, no slowing until they get to the town and using all available firepower to crush anything that gets in the way before they get to the town.

Move everything up from the south between the two roads. One fire team, the armour, and anti-tank troops should be the main push with a fire team on each side of the spearhead to cover the flanks. The attack should be purely blitzkrieg, no slowing until they get to the town and using all available firepower to crush anything that gets in the way before they get to the town.

A blitzkrieg will almost certainly fail. We don't know the capabilities of the defending infantry. If the infantry has a lot of anti-tank and anti-infantry weaponry, your armor will be destroyed and a good chance of the total annilihation of your infantry...

In addition, I'll wait to know the commander of the enemy unit. If he is an ingenuitive commander, you'll be in for a long fight and the best bet will be to get better intelligence. If he is a cautious, slow to act general, you should follow SS's suggestion and launch the blitzkrieg...

Two Words:
Air Support.

:D

I'd get the Super-Cobra's in from nearby.
(I have OP:Flash too, got both expansions somewhere..)

The enemy has zero air-defense. The Cobras can run-and-gun when the hit the hot-zone.

If we don't have air support:

M2A3 Bradley w/ a fire-team and 1 LAW, inside approach from S.W troops dismount under covering fire from 2a3, assualt town, . after the L.A.V. 25 approaches the north, drawing fire from the enemy.

1 Fire-team heads directly for the town from the forest (Put them on stealth) and another moving along the road both teams have 1 SMAW and LAW.

I'll have to reinstall Op Flash and you'll have to send me the mission file :)

I'd like to know what terrain there is.

We'll see, but remember this is to test tactics. I'm anxious to see what you can come up with, 5CN.

A similar (but slightly different) attempt was made by Tallcottia a bit back (based on custom OFP missions and maps): http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=90823&highlight=

But this sounds good.

I need better information... You don't recklessly launch your troops into a direct attack, because you'll suffer heavy casualties like what Grant suffered at Cold Harbor and Sherman suffered at Kennesaw Mountain...

@FCN No reserve for both sides. What is stated is what each side has. The fight wont last long enough to really get more troops in. You can use your forces that are stated and time them. But I'll let you guys figure that out.

@Monolith Builders

No airsupport. If it is avaialbe in a certain scenario, I will state it

And terrain is readable by the map. (Hope you can read maps and their contour lines, if not, aw well :p)



Starting to try out each strategy now. I will attempt each strat you suggest at least twice. And I will report the overall results.

Launch an attack with one Laws unit and one SMAWs unit on the North and the South side each to draw their attention. Move the M2A2 with the North and the LAV to support the South side. Then move the rest of the infantry units through the forest and attack them from the rear...

Well, I would send the armor and two squads of soldiers to leap-frog through the road from the southwest(One element providing covering fire while the other advances) to assault the town. While this is going on, send the third team up the hill to the east of the town to catch the enemy forces between your two task forces. THe team coming up the hill should have one LAW and one SMAW and the infantry squads in the advance should have the others.

One tactic tested so far:

I'd say you rush the armour and SMAW guys from southwest so the fire teams and LAW guys can flank the enemy from south-southeast, from the forest.


Of two tried, it worked once, and failed once.

Continuing with more tactics.

Leave your bradley outside of town, with one fire team, send in the Lav right up the middle to draw fire,(also to make sure those tanks are really out of fuel), send your other two fire teams and your anti tank boy up from the south. When(if) your lav is pursued out of town- you get infantry ambushed by one fire eteam and your bradley, if the infantry doesnt pursue you still have two fire teams entering the town, if you cant bait some of the infatry into being ambushed by the single fire team and the Bradley, you use them to attack as two fire teams and anti-tank crews from the south attempt to engage the enemy armour. Of course the map is poor , and so is the photo, but this should have a reasonable chance of success.
An alternative is to send your anti tank and all three fire teams from the south, while rnning your vehicles right up the middle, the bradley can handle quit a few infantry, the tanks would be what they would wnat to engage it with, they would leave their cover(if they can), and expose themselves to the fire from the southern teams. this plan is also contingent on good timing, but most are.

Lets see...

First, send one teams to attack from the Northeast side, using trees for cover, and another from the Southwest side. Give the first team 2 LAWs and 1 SMAW, the second 1 LAW and 1 SMAW. If you're losing men, retreat.

While they're fighting, send in the remaining equipment from the South.

Central Facehuggeria, you tactic worked great the first time. I have the armor moving in as the enemy armor gets attacked. It worked great the first time.

But the second time, all the armor got whacked by the entrentched tanks, and the enemy infantry disposed of your fire teams realtively easily.


@Skibereen

"Baiting" the LAV will just get it killed. Running it up the middle and then trying to draw the infantry out will just result in the entrenched armor taking a whack at the LAV. Killing the LAV. Now your just lost your LAV. A couple teams are moving in, but the infantry has a bad chance of making it with the patrols in the forest and the two squads left in the town.

On your second plan, if the timing is correct it has a chance. But this tactic is pretty much the same as Central Facehuggeria's. And will end up with the same result.


@Samtonia. The fire and move technique requies some scripting in the mission, too much to do now. But, I can pretty well predict this result.

The teams moving up the road would get cut up. They are moving up a road, in which some of the road is completely open, and they are attacking an enemy with cover and on higher ground.

The tanks could try a flank south near the forest's edge and get behind the enemy armor. But as they can move their turrets, that wont to much good.

I'd guess your plan would be half and half as well. If the AT and armor can get that western entrenched tank, you've got room to get to the town. The armor can somewhat handle the entrenched infantry. As the team coming behind can handle the northern tank.

I'll give it a shot now to try and reproduce your tactic as best I can.

Yup, 50/50. The first time the AI couldn't take out that first tank w/o being spotted. second time they could.

Gonna give my tactic a shot now.

Use AT to engage from the northwest forest's edge

Move fireteams through the south and one through the east

Move armor through the north

Tried mine, and it worked as long as the tanks are taken out, or at least well damaged by the AT squads.

After trying all the tactics in this mission it can be learned that:

The key was taking out the armor, and approaching where you had the advantage. If you take a look, to the north there is an elevation maker 111. And just near the town, elevation marker of 108. This means that it is relatively even. If you are in a war, you always want the higher ground.

You had to take out the armor at the same time. Or else the other tank and all the infantry would be alerted.

Approaching with force though the forest was smart. Most of you caught on that two or three fireteams could overwhelm a few partrols.

Approaching from the east was risky, but depending on the timing, it can pay off. To the east, you faced a heavy machine gun, and any infantry that spotted them.



So, after this what do you think of it? Would you like to continue to try scenarios?

I take it you tried my blitzkrieg-style attack? If so, how did it fare?

EDIT: Yes, more! Please, more! (get your mind out of the gutter)

Hmmm, this looks interesting. Tag so I can partake in the next senario.

I take it you tried my blitzkrieg-style attack? If so, how did it fare?



I tried a blitkrieg style for many sides. let's just say it didn't always work out well. Like all the other tactics, if the armor could be destroyed, the mission had a chance.

The only time it succeded was when I attacked from the north and timed a few things.

The rifle squads went in full go and drew fire. The AT squads followed, and annihilated norther armor. Then they all proceded to the western armor and destroyed it. By now the casualties were enourmous. But after the north armor was destroyed, the M2A2 and LAV moved in from that side and moped up a lot of infantry.

In the end only a handful of soldiers and the Bradley survived.



I will create new scenarios in a brand spankin new thread just for this type of RP. If you wish I can TG you all who have shown intrest the link, once I make the thread, that way you don't miss out on anything.

Available Resources:

3xfive man, USMC fire teams
1xM2A2 Bradley
1xLAV225
3xLaws and men to use them
2xSMAW's and men to use them

(LAWs and SMAWS are light infantry anti-tank weapons)

What? No aerial units?
Psht. Neutron-bomb the tanks, then use aerial units to bypass defensive infantry. Lacking those two things, you'd want to... oh. You already posted the solution. Right. Well.

lol, we're staying modern tech in this stuff.

Although a neutron bomb would spice things up a little :P


As for now I'm off. I'm going to make an upgraded version of my SR40, HAR56, and HAR76.

I'm not much concerned about casualties, mainly because that wasn't a victory condition. Yes, please do contact me when you come up with more scenarios.

What? You didn't give my idea a try? :(

But I'll return to this thread... Looks interesting.

Tag. This looks interesting.

lol, we're staying modern tech in this stuff.

Although a neutron bomb would spice things up a little :P
That is modern tech, if somewhat expensive. For a really good bomb, anyway. A cheapo bomb that would only induce radiation sickness instead of instant death could be built in your basement.

Central Facehuggeria, you tactic worked great the first time. I have the armor moving in as the enemy armor gets attacked. It worked great the first time.

But the second time, all the armor got whacked by the entrentched tanks, and the enemy infantry disposed of your fire teams realtively easily.


@Skibereen

"Baiting" the LAV will just get it killed. Running it up the middle and then trying to draw the infantry out will just result in the entrenched armor taking a whack at the LAV. Killing the LAV. Now your just lost your LAV. A couple teams are moving in, but the infantry has a bad chance of making it with the patrols in the forest and the two squads left in the town.

On your second plan, if the timing is correct it has a chance. But this tactic is pretty much the same as Central Facehuggeria's. And will end up with the same result.


@Samtonia. The fire and move technique requies some scripting in the mission, too much to do now. But, I can pretty well predict this result.

The teams moving up the road would get cut up. They are moving up a road, in which some of the road is completely open, and they are attacking an enemy with cover and on higher ground.

The tanks could try a flank south near the forest's edge and get behind the enemy armor. But as they can move their turrets, that wont to much good.

I'd guess your plan would be half and half as well. If the AT and armor can get that western entrenched tank, you've got room to get to the town. The armor can somewhat handle the entrenched infantry. As the team coming behind can handle the northern tank.

I'll give it a shot now to try and reproduce your tactic as best I can.
My service in the military would dictate, given the information you gave thatthose are my options.
1. you always assume the tank can move.
2. since i have no idea where to enter the town so that the LAV doesnt not come under direct fire, I can only assume you input that with enough sense not to drive right in the line of fire.
Since this is a town, there are obstructions to the -line of sight- fire from the enemy armour, logically there would be anyway.
If it is 'pillboxed' on the road in. you ambush a patrol in the middle of the night. And close on foot, and abandon your own armour(armour needs infantry always infantry do not always need armour). In short you are asking to guess at what tactics will work with out operational knowledge.
SO we are actually giving 'strategic' advice, what you command the little soldiers on your game to do directly are the tactics.
In other words "I come from N, sweep S, engage with SAW, blahblah" are strategics, the actual details are tactics, of which we have no control.
Give me 3 marine rifle teams, and a Bradley, no thanks on the LAV, with some man-portable AT, and I can tactically address an enemy of 40 men in an urban enviorment who doesnt know we are coming, with zero casualties.
Cute game though.
Oh, a neatron bomb is modern tech, actually it is outdated tech.

What branch of what military we're you in? And what did you do? (Just curious)

Exactly what do you mean that I'm asking you to guess w/o operation knowledge, operation knowledge of what?

Since this is a town, there are obstructions to the -line of sight- fire from the enemy armour, logically there would be anyway.

...

Give me 3 marine rifle teams, and a Bradley, no thanks on the LAV, with some man-portable AT, and I can tactically address an enemy of 40 men in an urban enviorment who doesnt know we are coming, with zero casualties.

It's actually a rather rural environment. My fault on that one, I'll include that kind of info in the future. The little rectangular boxes on the map are the houses.

I'm going to upload a pic of an arial view from over the town.

Image (http://www.tacticalblunder.com/~uploads/Harnu/NSWG0-3.jpg)

To the upper left direction is north.

I know the town isn't exactly perfect fortified, but that is partially because I wanted a simple example mission to give a try.


I'm working on a second mission now, defending this time. I hope that one will be better to understand.

Please tell me how I can improve these, if you were in the military, you should be able to give me several pointers.

What? You didn't give my idea a try? :(

But I'll return to this thread... Looks interesting.

Sorry between alt-tabbing which is a little screwed up, and testing all teh scenarios I left yours out. :(


But please return in the future, in a new thread.

New Thread (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=2503728#2503728)