NationStates Jolt Archive

After much discussian, cosultation, and "quieting" of opponents, Das Uber Deutschland has decided to protect its borders from communist threat by reinforcing them with concrete and steel defenses. This will also reinforce our ideologies of isolationism. These defenses will mainly include our beach fronts, but will also include, to a lesser extent, our land borders. This construction, if undertaken by ourselves, would be debilitating to our construction industry, therefor we are offering out contracts for its construction. Please contact me if your capable of carying out one or more of the following contracts, and we'll work out the details.

1.) bunker construction
2.) anti-ballistic missle defense system

After much discussian, cosultation, and "quieting" of opponents, Das Uber Deutschland has decided to protect its borders from communist threat by reinforcing them with concrete and steel defenses. This will also reinforce our ideologies of isolationism. These defenses will mainly include our beach fronts, but will also include, to a lesser extent, our land borders. This construction, if undertaken by ourselves, would be debilitating to our construction industry, therefor we are offering out contracts for its construction. Please contact me if your capable of carying out one or more of the following contracts, and we'll work out the details.

1.) bunker construction
2.) anti-ballistic missle defense system

I'm interested in the bunkers. How many, what specifications, etc.?

Im looking at about 450 miles of beach front that needs to be defensed. This would average about one 750' long by 75' deep by 300' high per half mile with defensible walling inbetween. This would equate to around 900 bunkers about 400 miles of defensible steel reinforced concrete walls. Please make me an offer as to the cost.

We will build you the system for $1.7 million per bunker..making the 900 bunkers a total of $1.5 billion USD for the bunkers. Now.. the steel would make it more expensive. It would come out to 1.7 billion.

We can have the system built for you in 8 months with up to 6 million workers, which is understandbly a lot. We've built the entire Macabean line, a top rate bunker system, as well as other fortifications.

Doujin has a great defense system network.

http://www.angelfire.com/ar3/doujin/a.JPG

This is the above ground structer of the bunkers that we will be installing throughout your country. They go down 900 feet deep.

Each door in the bunkers are made high-stressed titanium..

http://www.findforce.com/images/titanium.jpg

50 miles surounding the bunker will be the begining of base defenses.

http://www.micrtc.ang.af.mil/crtcweb/facilities/LG/security/police/dfp.jpg
http://www.micrtc.ang.af.mil/crtcweb/facilities/LG/security/police/towerpd.jpg
http://www.micrtc.ang.af.mil/crtcweb/facilities/LG/security/police/wire.jpg

For instalation on the coastline, at the ports, and beacheads where easy landings could take place, we have this:

http://web.ukonline.co.uk/gaz/btplant.jpg
http://web.ukonline.co.uk/gaz/btgfplant.jpg
http://web.ukonline.co.uk/gaz/btlgfplant.jpg
http://web.ukonline.co.uk/gaz/bttplant.jpg
http://web.ukonline.co.uk/gaz/btrplant.jpg
http://web.ukonline.co.uk/gaz/btsideplant.jpg
http://web.ukonline.co.uk/gaz/btside2plant.jpg

Anti-air defense we have this..

http://www.singaporerapier.com/rapierdarkfire.jpg

The Rapier Dark Fire, produced by Doujin Defense Systems.

All these are interlinked with the command bunkers.

http://www.ait.nrl.navy.mil/5585/Images/vcicair.jpg

These powerful computers are networked throughout the defense systems.

We have determined that it is quite possible to come up with a low-tech, low cost Anti-Ballistic missile system.

This system involves using 16" (normally naval) guns, and ScramJet rounds. After launch from a pneumatic gun, the ScramJet round, with minor modifications.. including a small guidance system and thrusters, would reach speeds in excess of Mach 7 until it hit the exoatmosphere. For vertical flight in a ballistic (i.e.,unpowered) trajectory it could travel another vertical 290 kilometers~180miles(=h), indeed putting it in exoatmosphere (use v(2)=2ah, a=9.8m/s(2), v=mach7=2.4km/sec, solve for "h", added height gained (need ~mach24 to orbit). If such an ekv had small thrusters for controlling the direction of motion it might even target something I presume. This is still marginally exo but extremely interesting. The scram jet wouldn't have to carry oxygen, could be fired pneumatically so that no heavy jet turbines are needed (It goes to scram-ram jet mode immediately), would give high speed ballistics an order of magnitude more range and height.

fwew thats a big system. lots of concrete and steel to ship in. I don't see how it can be done for a simple 1.7B as Macabees says. We're looking at at least 3 - 5 billion for them to be made to withstand 16" shell hits.

I can build you a missile defense system that uses lasers to shoot down targets. Basically it's a chemical laser with a range of whatever your needs are up to 1000km. Depending on the power they can be mounted on a truck or othe vehicle. It's called the Razor Mk 4

Layerteb, im interested in what you could do. I should let it be known that my country will be providing about 1/2 the building meterials (as much as can be had without endangering our commercial construction supply).

Doujin, your system is a bit much for border defenses, your system seems more of a high command bunker, for which ive constructed my own.

fwew thats a big system. lots of concrete and steel to ship in. I don't see how it can be done for a simple 1.7B as Macabees says. We're looking at at least 3 - 5 billion for them to be made to withstand 16" shell hits.

I calculated it by calculating the cost of steel and concrete. It's quite accurate.

I'm sure he wants them to withstand 16" Copperhead artillery rounds from (naval guns maybe?) with an explosive force of over 2000 lbs..

Layerteb, im interested in what you could do. I should let it be known that my country will be providing about 1/2 the building meterials (as much as can be had without endangering our commercial construction supply).

Doujin, your system is a bit much for border defenses, your system seems more of a high command bunker, for which ive constructed my own.

Well we can build bunkers to those exact specifications using the same methods as some of the ones we've tested and done in R & D. While they did sustain an initial salvo from 16" guns, firing 9 shells at a range of 20,000 yards, they could not sustain repeated bombardment, as nothing really can. We hit them with GBU-24s, 16" shells, penetrating JDAMs, etc. Results were good actually. It took four GBU-24s to destroy the bunkers, two GBU-28s (depending on altitude of drop), and roughly two dozen 16" shells.

They're not made to survive a full on attack as nothing really can when you look at the weapons out there but they will sustain initial strikes, enough to evacuate them. Now if your enemy has a lot less than 16" guns and penetration weapons they're good.

Now as far as 75' underground, in testing we went down to 125' using five layers of 25'. GBU-28s as you know can penetrate massively, going down through 100 feet of earth or 20 feet of reinforced concrete. Now we can make a single 25 foot layer at dept of 50 feet down to 75 feet that will provide security and then go down to 100 feet rather than 75 feet with the bunker. Anything inside those 76 - 100 feet can survive up to 5 hits from a GBU-28 and many more from JDAMs with penetrating warheads.

The reinforced steel is a grid inside the concrete with boxes roughly 6" to 12" in size that make going through very difficult as it is meant to catch the bomb, causing premature detonation. If the bomb catches the cross section (X) basically the middle of that X it will penetrate through as with anything. If the bomb is caught (XX) between the two Xs in that little area it will catch the bomb and thus cause the premature detonation, basically what you want to happen. The velocity of the bomb is so great though it will devestate the center part of the X when it hits, thats a given but we lay them out so that the center of the X is in between two layers of the middle so that if it goes through one it'll be caught in another and vice versa. Its inch thick steel with an inch space in between all layers. So you'll have six inches of steel in twelve inches of concrete.

Now since you can provide half the material it would reduce cost down to $2.5B maybe, this is a big project. Shore based weapons are not included in this and if they are to be included its a whole different ballgame and that depends on the type of weapons and such.

Or if you please we could do the 25 foot layer approximately 5 feet down so that we only go to 80 feet then that will work as well. There is room to play around with teh dimensions here.

To add something. With 16" gunfire. Sustained bombardment will destroy what is above ground no matter how big and thick it is. Nothing can forever. Now if the threat is ONLY naval ships firing 16" guns then what is underground will survive. Cruise missiles and other guided weapons will destroy the bunker with sustained attacking but it would take A LOT of ordinance to knock out what is under that 25' layer. It would take a long time over target to do that. That means they would have to knock out all your air defenses first.

Layarteb,
I do understand the reality of heavy bombardment. These bunkers and defenses are built to fend off landing ground forces and armor. Air defense is another matter, and is as said, its own defensive system. Depth of the bunker is important, as it needs to house defensive soldiers and keep them relatively safe if the upper bunkers are knocked out. They would then need to defend man to man. As for the shore weapons, ill handle that myself. As for cost, I know this is a massive project, and I want the best. Budget for this project is 5 billion. If your cost is 2.5-3 billion than you can easily go over budget without a big hassle. Defensible walls between the bunkers are meant to be points of artillery and machine gun placements. The 25' layer is very accaptible. I can think of very few incidents where bombers could drop five GBU-28s without massive consequences to their squadron. You have won the contract, you can confirm, and then start moving equipment and engineers whenever youre prepared.

Layarteb,
I do understand the reality of heavy bombardment. These bunkers and defenses are built to fend off landing ground forces and armor. Air defense is another matter, and is as said, its own defensive system. Depth of the bunker is important, as it needs to house defensive soldiers and keep them relatively safe if the upper bunkers are knocked out. They would then need to defend man to man. As for the shore weapons, ill handle that myself. As for cost, I know this is a massive project, and I want the best. Budget for this project is 5 billion. If your cost is 2.5-3 billion than you can easily go over budget without a big hassle. Defensible walls between the bunkers are meant to be points of artillery and machine gun placements. The 25' layer is very accaptible. I can think of very few incidents where bombers could drop five GBU-28s without massive consequences to their squadron. You have won the contract, you can confirm, and then start moving equipment and engineers whenever youre prepared.

Excellent good sir. I'm going to throw out the list price at $2.75B and if anything it won't rise much over 3.5 if it does. I can't guarantee on that though but I don't believe it would if I were doing it. I'll have to ship over construction equipment and such. I have a war going on but construction crews have not been needed due to the fact that the enemy has yet to penetrate our air defenses.

I'll ship out teams immediately with their equipment and they'll be briefed on the ride over. Best for me is to send them via air and sea if you can support landing facilities for both air and sea.

Now if you say the enemy is mostly landing forces then good sir you've got it made, it would take forever for 155MM artillery or MBT main gun fire to knock those suckers out!

I'm going to use telegram from now on though this if that's alright because its easier and to not waste thread space and such. We figure this project may take anywhere from 1 - 4 NS years if thats an alright estimate?

The walls are angled as well to cause shells to bounce when possible.

Good luck in the protection of your nation. I am incredibly disappointed in the ammount of ostracization that communists take from fascists. Communists are not the enemy, capitalists are! Pardon the tangent, good luck.

I mean no personal attack. My nation is in a war rigth now with communist forces who are trying to take over a fascist regime. It does seem, however, that communism creeps out of the crevices to try to hamper my nations people and defense. My nation is isolationist. Leave us and our allies be, and youll not hear from our military forces.

My forces have arrived and begun surveying and such work as they need. They estimate 4 NS Years right off the bat.

My nation is still in need of an anti-bilistic missle system. any takers?

After 7 months Layarteb engineers have this to say.

We expect completion of the defenses to be on January 22, 2004 (RL TIME) or 41 months from now. This is a full four year project and thus has yet to exceed the budget allocations originally cited at $2.75B. We have broken ground and have the entire 400 mile stretch dug out already and have met with excellent weather and conditions as well as much welcomed hospitality from Das Uber-Deutschland.
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Now as far as that ABM system. We can sell you Twin Towers class boats, as can be found on our storefront on the web through our nation-motto-link. They carry LEAP missiles, which can destroy incomming ballisitic missiles. Otherwise we recommend PAC-3 sites and other hit-to-kill systems.

The news couldnt be better. Das Uber Deutschland is very interested in five of your two towers class ships armed with LEAP anti ballistic missle systems. That would come to 4.25 billion if im not mistaken. As a side note, if your nation (layarteb) is interested in military equipment, my nation has designed, and produces, the finest tank money can buy (ooc: and be realistic in the process). We have currently sold slightly over 50,000 units (!!!!) worldwide, testament to their superiority over other designs. For more info, search uner Das Uber-Deutschland and look for a thread with the tanks designation "King Tiger III (PzKwX)".

*double post*

I will have to look into this tank. Total is correct. Delivery for each is 6 RL days.

We're making excellent progress on the bunkers. All depths have been reached and all foundations poured.