NationStates Jolt Archive


OOC: Institutionalisation and its effects on the military

Iuthia
18-12-2003, 13:15
One of the Definitions of Institutionalisation: Subject to the deleterious effects of confinement in an institution.

Institutionalisation, it’s a big word and it’s commonly thought of when talking about mental institutes… the normal example being that someone has been confined to a mental institute where their mental state may be stabilised but the effects of being confined to one place can in itself cause problems.

Let me explain. If you are kept within a controlled environment (such as a hospital or under mental care) for long periods of time you get used to being within a controlled environment, it’s harder to leave the institution the longer you have been in. Often the real world will seem intimidating to you, you will have more trouble understanding it and understanding real people, relationships will be more problematic and getting a job will be harder… basically, the longer you are kept within an institution the more out of touch you will become, the weaker the person the more likely that you will never be able to become normal again.

So how does this affect your military personnel? Yeah… that’s right, institutionalisation isn’t limited to your physically and mentally sick, it will happen to anyone who is taken out of the real world and placed within a controlled environment, such as the military… sure, you may let your people leave once in a while, but for most of their career they will be living in that institute, training in an environments controlled so you will be able to train efficiently.

Don’t believe me? Look at retired army veterans, a lot of them are reasonably ok… maybe a little odd, but they have managed to get to grips with the world outside of the military… but what about the ones who didn’t? You’d be amazed how many veterans went on to be homeless, living on the street… it’s happened in real life and it still happens, they are supported the best that people can manage if they are lucky but it’s almost scary to think that some of them never quite got back into the real world.

You also find that those who manage to stick the military for 2 years like the contract said often find that they prefer to stay in the military, a quite a few of them leave but the connect is there.

So ok, that’s looking at the normal model for the military, but what if you went further and forced all of your people to serve a period in the military… well to be honest, it shouldn’t be too much of an issue providing it’s not for too long, something like 2 years can be ok… though they may leave a little confused when they try getting a job in the real world. But what about 5 years? I’ve seen nations do it and it can be pretty harsh… but the worst possible case is when you are dealing with children…

We’ve all heard of the idea that if you train a child to be a soldier all his life that they become some kind of highly trained force… it makes sense really, but the worst case I’ve heard in NS is someone who actually puts all their children in a form of boarding school (i.e. they can’t go home after school, they live there) and then trains them in martial arts and meditation as well as teaching them normal education… now those kids are going to end up a little odd when they leave, but it was made worse by then putting them into the military for 5 years.


Of course, I’m hardly an expert… but I feel that it should be taken into the consideration that the more harshly you train your people to be great military material, the worse they will be for civilian life, which is the life they use to get you your economy.
Doujin
18-12-2003, 13:23
Doujin applauds your report on Institutionalism, and takes it into consideration. Thank you for spending time drafting this up to help further human decency.
Iuthia
28-12-2003, 02:35
pea-roast...

[Bump]
Archaic Slang Words
28-12-2003, 02:43
A majority of ASW's economy comes from factory working... what your saying is: if we take children from their mothers at birth and force them to work in factories, raised in a factory environment, and never let see the light of day or regular outside life, we will have the most efficient manufacturing force ever? :twisted: ASW thanks you for this enlightening bit of information.
Iuthia
28-12-2003, 02:59
A majority of ASW's economy comes from factory working... what your saying is: if we take children from their mothers at birth and force them to work in factories, raised in a factory environment, and never let see the light of day or regular outside life, we will have the most efficient manufacturing force ever? :twisted: ASW thanks you for this enlightening bit of information.

Yup, that is what I'm saying, they will be used to working in a factory and nothing more. If the factory closed down they would find themselves with alot of issues... most will probably end up homeless or worse.

Of course, I would question a societies morals if take the children away from parents to make them into almost robotic workers...


I would also argue that if you didn't teach them how the factory worked, what it was there for and why it was needed they will become stuck in just one role and will be very rigid in their cababilities (having only learned one way of doing something instead of being taught to understand what they are doing).
imported_Skepticism
28-12-2003, 03:24
OOC: For real life examples of institutionalism, check out Lieutennant Dan from Forrest Gump and Bob Lee Swagger from all those Stephen Hunter books ;)

Tongue-in-cheek of course...
Hole Where Evil Lives
28-12-2003, 03:25
Well there really is no plus side to either case. If I don't put them in the military for long periods of time then they'll be girly wuss men who won't shoot at the enemy. However if I do then they won't be able to leave without going crazy. I'm not gonna say this is automatic but I mean these are the results I'd have to deal with in either case. Hole Where Evil Lives doesn't really care about those poor civilians so I'll just throw them in the military and ruin their future lives. But for a nation trying to be somewhat democratic I can see a problem. What you want to do is find a balance and use techniques which will enable you to have an efficient force who can live the life of a prole* as well.
-1984 by George Orwell for reference.
Iuthia
28-12-2003, 03:27
OOC: For real life examples of institutionalism, check out Lieutennant Dan from Forrest Gump and Bob Lee Swagger from all those Stephen Hunter books ;)

Tongue-in-cheek of course...

To be honest, I'm not sure I've covered it too well, but I hope it at least stops people from posting:

"I train all my kids in like the military, wit EDUCATION!!!1! then I stick 'em in the military for too long and watch the little guys go loopy when they leave to work in the real world and wonder why people don't treat them right..."
Iuthia
28-12-2003, 03:36
Well there really is no plus side to either case. If I don't put them in the military for long periods of time then they'll be girly wuss men who won't shoot at the enemy. However if I do then they won't be able to leave without going crazy. I'm not gonna say this is automatic but I mean these are the results I'd have to deal with in either case. Hole Where Evil Lives doesn't really care about those poor civilians so I'll just throw them in the military and ruin their future lives. But for a nation trying to be somewhat democratic I can see a problem. What you want to do is find a balance and use techniques which will enable you to have an efficient force who can live the life of a prole* as well.
-1984 by George Orwell for reference.

I do force all citizens to train in the military for 2 year, resulting in something like a nation of possible conscripts who could serve in the military but would make a rather poor force as they would only have vague memories of their time in the military...

Meanwhile career military personnel are carefully intergrated into society after they decide to retire or leave the military. They have weekends off and the damage is limited by the disaplined mind set of the nation... the military is in their blood and as such you will find sales teams in "squads" and so on... it's still normalish, just odd to outsiders.

As for the BlackVipers? All orphans become parented by the military and often become involved in the more highly trained forces of the Iuthian Army... however they are very hard to replace into the society and are viewed as odd, even by our peoples standards...


Overall we make a point of training our military in part of think with a small amount of morals and ethics so they don't become completely desenitised, but their are still things to be ironed out.
Archaic Slang Words
28-12-2003, 04:14
Interesting... a theoretical ideal would be to try and keep the children working in the factories but at the same time teach them a new way of being capable of seperate ways of labor; teaching them multiple factory skills... hmm... and have THEM manufacture the new devices in their field. That way, when they come out... :twisted:

Just a little theorizing...