NationStates Jolt Archive

To The Imperial Empire of Belem, from TAOBB temporary headquarters in Smirnoff, Berëza:

Your partially genoicidal campaign of violent expression of homophobia is a gross injustice to homosexuals and bisexuals in your and other nations. We do not accept the excuse that you are doing it because your population wishes it. It is your duty as a government to protect the civil rights of all of your citizens, heterosexual or not. Therefore, The Alliance Of Benevolent Bullies, in all its benevolent arrogance, issues the following Ultimatum to you:

1. You must end all persecution, including physical violence and involuntary hospitalization, whether officially sanctioned or not, organized or not, formal or not, of all persons of abnormal sexual orientation. Persecution includes, but is not limited to, involuntary exile and deporation.
2. You must take effective measures to ensure that your population does not continue this persecution, even if you cease and desist.
3. You must return, repair, or replace any property, including citizenship and similar things, that the persecuted persons had prior to your campaign of hate.
4. You have 12 RL hours from the issuance of this Ultimatum's appendix (i.e the evidence against you) to provide TAOBB, or any of its members, evidence of your and your population's compliance.
5. You must suspend all hostilities with The Armed Republic of KAG, and not initiate any fighting with any other nation, until TAOBB officially and formally authorizes continuation of said hostilities. We will do so if you show that you have legitimate reason for military action.
6. Failure to comply with the Ultimatum will result in TAOBB invading your nation, installing a government of our choosing, and policing the nation until seen fit to do otherwise.
7. Pre-emptive attack on TAOBB will result in an invasion with no further notice.

You have 12 hours starting now.

Signed, The Alliance Of Benevolent Bullies,
The Serene Land of Berëza
The Multinational Green Empire of Qaaolchoura
The Grand Duchy of Uvon

#tag#

OOC:did you officially declare war yet? IC post coming soon.

OOC: also u better have a good way to get those specs ops into my country my borders are heavily long term resident foreigners are basically only allowed in foreign districts of the city.
some general notes on defense: the Belem defense wall surrounds the entirity of the nation with 3 borders bordering allied countries and the eastern border bordering the pacific ocean.

OOC:Belem? this guy's not the sharpest knife in the dawer isn't he? :lol:

OOC:Belem? this guy's not the sharpest knife in the dawer isn't he? :lol:

OOC:check tgrams.

---Post deleted by NationStates Moderators---

Bereza, need to insert operatives into foreign lands without detection? Have we got a plane for you...

MU-24A Avenge Blue

Primary Function: Land or Carrier Based Covert Insertion/Resupply Aircraft
Contractor: Pan-Haaregradian Defence Institute
Power Plant: 4x TF525-420 9 500lb thrust turbofan engines
Length: 53 feet, 6 inches (16.0 meters)
Height: 15 feet (4.5 meters).
Wingspan: 37 feet, 6 inches (11.25 meters)
Ceiling: 60 000-plus feet (18 200 meters)
Speed: Mach 2.2 at high altitude, more then Mach 1 at all altitudes
Range: 2 000 miles(3 200km) on internal fuel only, 3 400 miles(5 440km) with internal and 4x 370 gallon(1 485L)drop tanks
Empty Weight: 24 000lbs (10 910kg)
Maximum Takeoff Weight: 62 000lbs (27 270kg)
Armament: none
Cargo Load: Up to eight fully equipped paratroopers or 12 000lbs of supplies internally
Unit cost: $48 000 000
Crew: Two, pilot and navigator
Current Versions:
A-24A Avenger - land based, low observability strike bomber
A-24B Avenger - carrier based, low observability strike bomber
U-24A Avenger - land or carrier based, low observability utility and Carrier Onboard Delivery aircraft
MU-24A Avenge Blue - land or carrier based covert insertion/resupply aircraft
KU-24A Avenger - land or carrier based, low observability utility and inflight refueling aircraft
S-24A Avenger - carrier or land based ASW aircraft
E-24A Avenger - carrier based Airborne Early Warning and Control aircraft
E-24B Avenger - carrier or land based Electronic Counter Measures and Signal Intellgence aircraft
B-24A Avenger - medium bomber/cruise missile platform, no longer in service, all converted to A-24A Avenger standard

http://haaregradia.20megsfree.com/storefront/ampsb.htm

OOC: also u better have a good way to get those specs ops into my country my borders are heavily long term resident foreigners are basically only allowed in foreign districts of the city.
some general notes on defense: the Belem defense wall surrounds the entirity of the nation with 3 borders bordering allied countries and the eastern border bordering the pacific ocean.

what happened was that we phoned you, started declaring war, but were interrupted from this end by messages from qaaolchoura and LRR. we put you on hold. no actual shots have been fired yet.

you don't know about the specops. and you don't know the following: there are 15-20 of them, about half of which are spies/undercover agents, the rest hiding out in the forest and such. the former arrived as foreigners, and disappeared into the society. the latter got in via a combination of airdrop, border infiltration, amphibious landing, and the like. i doubt your government has even any trace of their existence, and you definitely don't know where they are.

however, it's not like we have an army in there. they're mostly lightly-armed recon people.

king binks - no hijacking. this is an RP.

SH - tell you what: you deliver *this crate* to my specops at *this rendezvouz point* at *this time* with your plane, and if you manage to get at least in, we'll consider buying a few. we don't have one like it. stronger consideration will be given if you can get out too, and even more if you do both without being detected. ooc: RP it, si vouz plait (sp?).

Belem? check your TG's

We are small. We don't have a lot of resources, or citizens, or much of an economy. But, the Grand Duchy of Uvon offers as much support as it possibly can to Bereza in its righteous crusade against the horrific genocidal government of Belem.

OOC: also u better have a good way to get those specs ops into my country my borders are heavily long term resident foreigners are basically only allowed in foreign districts of the city.
some general notes on defense: the Belem defense wall surrounds the entirity of the nation with 3 borders bordering allied countries and the eastern border bordering the pacific ocean.

what happened was that we phoned you, started declaring war, but were interrupted from this end by messages from qaaolchoura and LRR. we put you on hold. no actual shots have been fired yet.

you don't know about the specops. and you don't know the following: there are 15-20 of them, about half of which are spies/undercover agents, the rest hiding out in the forest and such. the former arrived as foreigners, and disappeared into the society. the latter got in via a combination of airdrop, border infiltration, amphibious landing, and the like. i doubt your government has even any trace of their existence, and you definitely don't know where they are.

however, it's not like we have an army in there. they're mostly lightly-armed recon people.

king binks - no hijacking. this is an RP.

SH - tell you what: you deliver *this crate* to my specops at *this rendezvouz point* at *this time* with your plane, and if you manage to get at least in, we'll consider buying a few. we don't have one like it. stronger consideration will be given if you can get out too, and even more if you do both without being detected. ooc: RP it, si vouz plait (sp?).

OOC: ill let u have the guys who snuck in through regular means but my air defense would of shot down your planes if they flew over my country.

question for you, Uvon, and any other random nations that wish to help us:

may i include you, temporarily at least, in The Alliance Of Benevolent Bullies (TAOBB)? i'm drafting an ultimatum that will include the signatures of all nations that agree to help us.

<secret>

Bezera, your parcel will be delivered.

______________________________________________________________________
Bam Margera, Minister of Defense and Security
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-10/422994/bamsig.jpg

</secret>

To The Imperial Empire of Belem, from TAOBB temporary headquarters in Smirnoff, Berëza:

Your partially genoicidal campaign of violent expression of homophobia is a gross injustice to homosexuals and bisexuals in your and other nations. We do not accept the excuse that you are doing it because your population wishes it. It is your duty as a government to protect the civil rights of all of your citizens, heterosexual or not. Therefore, The Alliance Of Benevolent Bullies, in all its benevolent arrogance, issues the following Ultimatum to you:

1. You must end all persecution, including physical violence and involuntary hospitalization, whether officially sanctioned or not, organized or not, formal or not, of all persons of abnormal sexual orientation. Persecution includes involuntary exile and deporation.
2. You must take effective measures to ensure that your population does not continue this persecution, even if you cease and desist.
3. You must return, repair, or replace any property, including citizenship and similar things, that the persecuted persons had prior to your campaign of hate.
4. You have 12 RL hours from the issuance of this Ultimatum to provide TAOBB, or any of its members, evidence of your and your population's compliance.
5. You must suspend all hostilities with The Armed Republic of KAG, and not initiate any fighting with any other nation, until TAOBB officially and formally authorizes continuation of said hostilities. We will do so if you show that you have legitimate reason for hostilities.
6. Failure to comply with the Ultimatum will result in TAOBB invading your nation, installing a government of our choosing, and policing the nation until seen fit otherwise.
7. Pre-emptive attack on TAOBB will result in an invasion with no further notice.

You have 12 hours starting now.

Signed, The Alliance Of Benevolent Bullies,
The Serene Land of Berëza
The Multinational Green Empire of Qaaolchoura

Denied. You have no information except for a single news article released to the public to know the current status of our program.

We the nation of Trasa Stand side to side with our friend and ally Belem. you attack him there will be heck to pay from me :twisted:

*tag*

OOC: note this is going to be a modern tech war the highest tech level should be about 2010.

you deny the charges?

we've got evidence (mostly testimony from witnesses), including statements from you.

(i must admit, i wasn't expecting this).

Yes I deny the charges.

The MU-24 took off from a base in northern Haaregradia. The mission was simple, fly in from the east of Belem, deliver a package and come home.

Many people would call this suicide, however Captain Yuri Mucovite felt confident in his aircraft and himself and knew he could get the job done.

He flew at high altitude to about 500 miles of the Belemian coast before getting his last refueling and diving to just under 1400 feet. The refueler was bluffing itself as a civil airliner, however closer inspection would revel the lie.

As he approached the shoreline he tested the Plasma Radar Cloaking System, although it was risky to use, if need be he would turn it on.

ADT(anti stealth radar) radar detects the incoming plane.

Transmission to the bomber at about 400 miles "Attention unidentified Military aircraft you do not have permission to enter Belem airspace change your heading or you shall be fired on."

three Viper Interceptors reroute from their CAP 200 miles from Belems Coast and about 300 miles away from the Bomber and beging painting it to get a target lock.

i'm RL busy now. if someone wants to help me, get a good case against him typed up and all.

ADT(anti stealth radar) radar detects the incoming plane.

Transmission to the bomber at about 400 miles "Attention unidentified Military aircraft you do not have permission to enter Belem airspace change your heading or you shall be fired on."

three Viper Interceptors reroute from their CAP 200 miles from Belems Coast and about 300 miles away from the Bomber and beging painting it to get a target lock.

The MU-24 pilot flipped on his radar cloak and noticed the RWR lights go off. He continued on fearlessly, unsure of what to do.

ADT compensates be detecting the disturbance in the air made by the plane.

250 miles to coast. 170 to Interceptors.


"Unidentified Aircraft this Belem Air Defense this your final warning change course immediately or be fired upon."

:P

YOu notice a White Su-34 Recon fly over the scene and head back out to sea.

i don't know what this ADT business is, but air disturbances from a relatively small plane can't be differentiated from those of wind, for instance. besides, how would you tell those differences? unless you had some transmitter/detector on the other side of the plane, you wouldn't be able to.

anyway, here's the evidence against you:

1. your opening post - "Today our most Glorious Emperor Vito the first has called for an Imperial crackdown on the most insidieous and vile corrupters of Belem". this is obviously a government position. furthermore, the post goes on to say that "The Inquisition is quickly enacting laws to help them persue the heathens". laws are being enacted - laws are government actions.

2. "anyone found out will be given two choices 1. to be sent to a mental institution until they are deemed cured or considered incurable and executed or 2. shot outright."

3. "its a crime against nature what they are doing." and many similar statements.

4. "The people of Belem demand that unjust and immoral practices be stopped and the Imperial Empire responds to these demands. Be it communists, elves, heathens, or homosexuals." you also have a post towards the end - "well we rely on basically the generally public ratting people out and then the Inquisition does a follow up investigation. In actuality the Inquisition and the government really doesn't care one way or the other they just want the people to be ever loyal to Belem and by calling withhunts they achieve that". hear this - if your government can't control your people, and can't perform its duty of protecting the civil rights of all, then it must be either strengthened, or replaced.

that's the evidence against you. it's enough to warrant an attack by at least me, and probably the rest of TAOBB, and possibly many other nations. answer it, or be invaded. the 12-hour period has been extended to start now.

We the nation of Trasa Stand side to side with our friend and ally Belem. you attack him there will be heck to pay from me :twisted:
You are about the same size as I am, and Belem is about the same size as Bereza. Uvon, will likely make up the difference, and we may get more allies.

OOC: I know that my economy is imploded, that is quite deliberate. I was disgusted, with the amount that people used economies in RP, and did it to make a point, so don't even try pulling that on me.

In case you decide to call this godmodding:

a. The "g" word is best not tossed around lightly. I'll concede that I am not an expert on the way that units funtion, but I know how diplomacy, civilian infrastructure, and logistics (to an extent, I wouldn't say that I am an expert on it yet)
b. "Economy" is only defined by the power of my corparations, and hence trade power with capitalist nations. I will therefore produce things myself or purchase them from nations which acknowledge the power of my public sector and civillian infrastucture and social benefits.

I know that someone will try to use that against me, so best to throw it out now, so that you are aware how I intend to fuction.

Peace (or not), Truth, and Justice,
Luke(Qaaolchoura)

We the nation of Trasa Stand side to side with our friend and ally Belem. you attack him there will be heck to pay from me :twisted:
You are about the same size as I am, and Belem is about the same size as Bereza. Uvon, will likely make up the difference, and we may get more allies.

OOC: I know that my economy is imploded, that is quite deliberate. I was disgusted, with the amount that people used economies in RP, and did it to make a point, so don't even try pulling that on me.

In case you decide to call this godmodding:

a. The "g" word is best not tossed around lightly. I'll concede that I am not an expert on the way that units funtion, but I know how diplomacy, civilian infrastructure, and logistics (to an extent, I wouldn't say that I am an expert on it yet)
b. "Economy" is only defined by the power of my corparations, and hence trade power with capitalist nations. I will therefore produce things myself or purchase them from nations which acknowledge the power of my public sector and civillian infrastucture and social benefits.

I know that someone will try to use that against me, so best to throw it out now, so that you are aware how I intend to fuction.

Peace (or not), Truth, and Justice,
Luke(Qaaolchoura)

An attack on Uvon and its allies is an attack on Farinasparlement. The Crown Government of Farinasparlement, upon order of its Sovereign, will offer its resources in this campaign.

Earl of Rogers Park
Prime Minister of Farinasparlement

i don't know what this ADT business is, but air disturbances from a relatively small plane can't be differentiated from those of wind, for instance. besides, how would you tell those differences? unless you had some transmitter/detector on the other side of the plane, you wouldn't be able to.

anyway, here's the evidence against you:

1. your opening post - "Today our most Glorious Emperor Vito the first has called for an Imperial crackdown on the most insidieous and vile corrupters of Belem". this is obviously a government position. furthermore, the post goes on to say that "The Inquisition is quickly enacting laws to help them persue the heathens". laws are being enacted - laws are government actions.

2. "anyone found out will be given two choices 1. to be sent to a mental institution until they are deemed cured or considered incurable and executed or 2. shot outright."

3. "its a crime against nature what they are doing." and many similar statements.

4. "The people of Belem demand that unjust and immoral practices be stopped and the Imperial Empire responds to these demands. Be it communists, elves, heathens, or homosexuals." you also have a post towards the end - "well we rely on basically the generally public ratting people out and then the Inquisition does a follow up investigation. In actuality the Inquisition and the government really doesn't care one way or the other they just want the people to be ever loyal to Belem and by calling withhunts they achieve that". hear this - if your government can't control your people, and can't perform its duty of protecting the civil rights of all, then it must be either strengthened, or replaced.

that's the evidence against you. it's enough to warrant an attack by at least me, and probably the rest of TAOBB, and possibly many other nations. answer it, or be invaded. the 12-hour period has been extended to start now.

OOC: the thing about the people in 4 was an OOC response to an OOC question.

We the nation of Trasa Stand side to side with our friend and ally Belem. you attack him there will be heck to pay from me :twisted:
You are about the same size as I am, and Belem is about the same size as Bereza. Uvon, will likely make up the difference, and we may get more allies.

OOC: I know that my economy is imploded, that is quite deliberate. I was disgusted, with the amount that people used economies in RP, and did it to make a point, so don't even try pulling that on me.

In case you decide to call this godmodding:

a. The "g" word is best not tossed around lightly. I'll concede that I am not an expert on the way that units funtion, but I know how diplomacy, civilian infrastructure, and logistics (to an extent, I wouldn't say that I am an expert on it yet)
b. "Economy" is only defined by the power of my corparations, and hence trade power with capitalist nations. I will therefore produce things myself or purchase them from nations which acknowledge the power of my public sector and civillian infrastucture and social benefits.

I know that someone will try to use that against me, so best to throw it out now, so that you are aware how I intend to fuction.

Peace (or not), Truth, and Justice,
Luke(Qaaolchoura)

Economy also means the amount of money your country has in general tpo pay its troops. So imploded economy means less troops. Also how do you give encouragements to scientists and doctors to develop new weapon systems? How do you get needed parts from overseas?

OOC: I also suggest we limit allies to 1 to 2 on each side at most otherwise the thread gets too cluttered people falll behind on battles and it becomes a big mess.

Economy also means the amount of money your country has in general tpo pay its troops. So imploded economy means less troops. Also how do you give encouragements to scientists and doctors to develop new weapon systems? How do you get needed parts from overseas?
OOC: Noooo, economy when the government has full controls will have a poor external trade value, but, a perfectly fine internal average. Of course soldiers can not buy things outside of the Qaaolchouraav empire and her sattelites, but that does not mean that I can not afford to control internal affairs and external corparations in Qaaolchoura (on the rare times that they are allowed in. Case in point: Canada. I refuse to budge an inch on this. There would be no point in imploding my economy if I did not insist on meeting uber-capitalists on m own terms.

simply put: economy in NS is main factor for denoting how much you can purchase for your military. Even if your country is completely self sufficient with the government controlling everything hence a private enterprise is illegal you can have a high level of output. With an imploded economy it means there is no or low output.

I have been folowing this subject and I must say, if what is being said is true (regarding the Empire of Belem) then action is appropriate to end this gross abuse of power that causes such suffering. While my nation can not, and will not, bring military forces to bear we will do what we can. Since our focus is on preventing death, strengthening free will, and helping those in need, I offer the sercives of my medical corps. While not very much they are practiced hands at the art of medicine and will be, I hope, a viable and nessecary addition to the Coalition forces that brought this subject to my attention.

Signed,
the Honorable
Burgoyne Watoka,
Empress Judge of Nights Whisper

simply put: economy in NS is main factor for denoting how much you can purchase for your military. Even if your country is completely self sufficient with the government controlling everything hence a private enterprise is illegal you can have a high level of output. With an imploded economy it means there is no or low output.
OOC: There are some nations who do this true, but the original NS did not take into account many variables (my economy could have been higher (and indeed would be, if I answered the questions on economy as I actually believe them, but as I mentioned I deleiberately imploded it (although I'm considering allowing IT workers to be fired without reason, since that one thing would raise my IT rating while keping my general economy imploded), assuming that other factors were taken into account, but as they are not that is why we have role-play.

I keep my military at .5-2% depending on what is needed, and have no WMDs , and you can claim all you want that the three-dimensional scale of the aspects of the game that you can view, and the incredibly flawed (all nations having the same tax rate is a ridiculous claim) GDP calc, but that does not mean that I have to use it.

RP allows more complex government, and therefore judging by my public sector, healthcare system, police, and military spending ratings among other things (not to menation IRL examples the Soviet Union would have had an imploded economy, and political freedoms can not have much of an adverse effect, nor can my social benefits, as one only needs look at Venuzuala, a horrible economy by capitalist standards, but in fact doing quite well), the type of government, that I claim is perfectly reasonable.

I have been folowing this subject and I must say, if what is being said is true (regarding the Empire of Belem) then action is appropriate to end this gross abuse of power that causes such suffering. While my nation can not, and will not, bring military forces to bear we will do what we can. Since our focus is on preventing death, strengthening free will, and helping those in need, I offer the sercives of my medical corps. While not very much they are practiced hands at the art of medicine and will be, I hope, a viable and nessecary addition to the Coalition forces that brought this subject to my attention.

Signed,
the Honorable
Burgoyne Watoka,
Empress Judge of Nights Whisper
We appreciate Night Whisper's support in this matter.

People tend to underestimate how valuable a small difference in field medical staff can be.

Peace, Truth, Equality, Liberty, Justice, and Democracy
Luke saQaaolchoura,
President ofThe Multinational Green Empire of Qaaolchoura

economy is defined as your GDP you can have all industry outlawed and run by the government and still have a good economy.

GDP=Consumer+Investsments+Government=(eXports-iMports)

C=Consumer spending on all final products.
I=The money firms spending on expanding their business i.e. buying machinery for a factory
G=government spending
X=the amount of Exports
M=Amount of Imports
X and M are the smallest part of the GDP scale.

Now a nation with a good economy doesnt matter if it is command based or free market should still have high Consumer and Investment spending even if the Investment spending is done by the Government.
Considering that exports and imports have a very small effect on a nations economy they will not factor in.
Consumer is also consumer demand in how much your nations output is.
SO if your economy is imploded hence your industry can not get enough output.

So if you have an imploded economy it means you have no output.

simply put: economy in NS is main factor for denoting how much you can purchase for your military. Even if your country is completely self sufficient with the government controlling everything hence a private enterprise is illegal you can have a high level of output. With an imploded economy it means there is no or low output.
OOC: There are some nations who do this true, but the original NS did not take into account many variables (my economy could have been higher (and indeed would be, if I answered the questions on economy as I actually believe them, but as I mentioned I deleiberately imploded it (although I'm considering allowing IT workers to be fired without reason, since that one thing would raise my IT rating while keping my general economy imploded), assuming that other factors were taken into account, but as they are not that is why we have role-play.

I keep my military at .5-2% depending on what is needed, and have no WMDs , and you can claim all you want that the three-dimensional scale of the aspects of the game that you can view, and the incredibly flawed (all nations having the same tax rate is a ridiculous claim) GDP calc, but that does not mean that I have to use it.

RP allows more complex government, and therefore judging by my public sector, healthcare system, police, and military spending ratings among other things (not to menation IRL examples the Soviet Union would have had an imploded economy, and political freedoms can not have much of an adverse effect, nor can my social benefits, as one only needs look at Venuzuala, a horrible economy by capitalist standards, but in fact doing quite well), the type of government, that I claim is perfectly reasonable.

it took 5 years to get a refrigerator in the Soviet Union. Consumer Demand was higher then the firms were allowed to produce. They could of easilly had a good economy if they hadn't devoted every factory to building guns. You can be self sufficient and still have a good internal economy.

OOC: Again, I will point you to Venzuala. They are defined by the capitalizt west as having a horrible economy, and are in fact the most well off country in South America. You can disagree until you are red in the face, but again, I will not budge an inch.

As for my imploded economy, it is deliberate, and I do everything that I can to keep it that way (well I recently got bored and decided to raise it slightly in order to implode it again, but then decided that there is no point).

OOC: Again, I will point you to Venzuala. They are defined by the capitalizt west as having a horrible economy, and are in fact the most well off country in South America. You can disagree until you are blue in the face, but again, I will not budge an inch.

As for my imploded economy, it is deliberate, and I do everything that I can to keep it that way (well I recently got bored and decided to raise it slightly in order to implode it again, but then decided that there is no point).

Edit: Stupid triple post.

Two Maako Shuttles enter atmosphere, thier heat-shields taking a beating. They land in Bereza, demanding to speak to a government official.

"Tell the man we got the stuff we talked about," a tired pilot wearing a green sweatshirt and aviator glasses says, "we didn't travel 20 hours from Mars for nothing. Anyone got any coffee? Frickin freezing on Earth...."

A delegate walks out of the shuttle, "I'm sorry for this man's rudeness. He hasn't been living on Earth for 2 years. We do have matters to discuss, concerning the homosexual ordeal. Our... cargo.... might make all the difference in the world."

"Hey, nice gun!" The Pilot says, looking at a guard, "Man, wish we had stuff like that back where I come from.... and where's some coffee?!"

OOC: I said no space tech at the beginning of the thread. 2010 tech max.

Also about Venezula heres what I found:
1. Venezula has 47% of their population below the poverty rate
2. 80% of the economy is based on Petreleoum exports
3.2002 estimate for their growth is -8.6
4. 31% inflation a year
5. 17% unemployment
6. There industry is shrinking at nearly a 6% rate

no country with 31% inflation and 17% unemployment is in good shape.

[quote="Belem"]OOC: I said no space tech at the beginning of the thread. 2010 tech max.[quote]

OOC: Our only particle weapons belong to the police force (low yield stuns) and the currently refitted ships we bought (and are trying to figure out). We only have slightly better technology, and still can't leave the solar system. The terra-formed part of Mars was in co-operation with The Queendom of Mizjellybean, the Fiefdom of Draconas, the Dominion of Counter-Utopia, and the United States of America (the US only because they wanted us gone).

Maako Shuttles are like NASA shuttles, but with a machine gun on the side and the DG symbol on the side.

OOC: I said no space tech at the beginning of the thread. 2010 tech max.

Also about Venezula heres what I found:
1. Venezula has 47% of their population below the poverty rate
2. 80% of the economy is based on Petreleoum exports
3.2002 estimate for their growth is -8.6
4. 31% inflation a year
5. 17% unemployment
6. There industry is shrinking at nearly a 6% rate

no country with 31% inflation and 17% unemployment is in good shape.
OOC: Maybe it was the growth rate or maybe it was the best of several bad economies (keep in mind Chevez has been in power for only a couple of years.

Since I really have a web design project that I should be working on, and finding the evidence that I need will take time, do you mind if we start a new thread on just this (in NS, where it would really go) during Thanksgiving break (I'll tm you with it, if I don't by Sunday {I have other unfinished business to resolve as well during TB, but I do tend to forget things. I forgot about a puppet of mine pfor two weeks and just remembered it today as I was typing a response to another thread} you should tm me)?

Since as I siad, I am running out of time, the alternative would be to turn the RP into an IGNORE fest.

OOC: Congrats, Bereza. Check your TGs.

ADT compensates be detecting the disturbance in the air made by the plane.

250 miles to coast. 170 to Interceptors.


"Unidentified Aircraft this Belem Air Defense this your final warning change course immediately or be fired upon."

The Haaregradian pilot, realizing he may be fired on radioed back to home base.

"Sir, they are somehow picking me up."
"Do you feel comfortable completing your mission?"
"Sir, is the just a show of force?"
"Yes, it is."
"Permission to turn back?"
"Granted."

The pilot turned off his cloak and turned around.

"If we wish to make an assualt against Belem we need to take out those ADT systems."

[quote="Belem"]OOC: I said no space tech at the beginning of the thread. 2010 tech max.[quote]

OOC: Our only particle weapons belong to the police force (low yield stuns) and the currently refitted ships we bought (and are trying to figure out). We only have slightly better technology, and still can't leave the solar system. The terra-formed part of Mars was in co-operation with The Queendom of Mizjellybean, the Fiefdom of Draconas, the Dominion of Counter-Utopia, and the United States of America (the US only because they wanted us gone).

Maako Shuttles are like NASA shuttles, but with a machine gun on the side and the DG symbol on the side.

OOC: 1. mars civilization 2. travel between planets. You realize a nasa shuttle would take about a year to get to mars?

ADT compensates be detecting the disturbance in the air made by the plane.

250 miles to coast. 170 to Interceptors.


"Unidentified Aircraft this Belem Air Defense this your final warning change course immediately or be fired upon."

The Haaregradian pilot, realizing he may be fired on radioed back to home base.

"Sir, they are somehow picking me up."
"Do you feel comfortable completing your mission?"
"Sir, is the just a show of force?"
"Yes, it is."
"Permission to turn back?"
"Granted."

The pilot turned off his cloak and turned around.

"If we wish to make an assualt against Belem we need to take out those ADT systems."

The Interceptors come into a flanking pattern by the bomber and fly with it till 500 miles out then turn back.

The nation of Euroslavia officially supports Belem, as we believe the other side does not have much "evidence" to offer. Military and Financial assistance is available to Belem and its allies.

ADT compensates be detecting the disturbance in the air made by the plane.

250 miles to coast. 170 to Interceptors.


"Unidentified Aircraft this Belem Air Defense this your final warning change course immediately or be fired upon."

The Haaregradian pilot, realizing he may be fired on radioed back to home base.

"Sir, they are somehow picking me up."
"Do you feel comfortable completing your mission?"
"Sir, is the just a show of force?"
"Yes, it is."
"Permission to turn back?"
"Granted."

The pilot turned off his cloak and turned around.

"If we wish to make an assualt against Belem we need to take out those ADT systems."

The Interceptors come into a flanking pattern by the bomber and fly with it till 500 miles out then turn back.

The nation of Euroslavia officially supports Belem, as we believe the other side does not have much "evidence" to offer. Military and Financial assistance is available to Belem and its allies.
Meh, of course we don't have much evidence.

Only this (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=93298&start=0).

ADT compensates be detecting the disturbance in the air made by the plane.

250 miles to coast. 170 to Interceptors.


"Unidentified Aircraft this Belem Air Defense this your final warning change course immediately or be fired upon."

The Haaregradian pilot, realizing he may be fired on radioed back to home base.

"Sir, they are somehow picking me up."
"Do you feel comfortable completing your mission?"
"Sir, is the just a show of force?"
"Yes, it is."
"Permission to turn back?"
"Granted."

The pilot turned off his cloak and turned around.

"If we wish to make an assualt against Belem we need to take out those ADT systems."

The Interceptors come into a flanking pattern by the bomber and fly with it till 500 miles out then turn back.

OOC: It's actually a cargo plane. ;)

OOC: 1. mars civilization 2. travel between planets. You realize a nasa shuttle would take about a year to get to mars?

OOC:
Right, but if NASA teamed up with a whole frickin country and worked around the clock, they'd be able to get it down to a few months.

Now, a few years have gone by and the government's money is really only going into this kinda research with top-notch scientists working 'round the clock. That'll bring it down to a few weeks.

Then international trade begins and viola we got some badass new engines to study. 20 hours seems reasonable.

And we're landing on Mars soon anyway, colonies will be established within the next 20 years. Not that far off.

And militarily speaking, we got nothing you aint got. At least nothing that's leaving our country.

And we're not fighting you, just giving Bereza a few computer parts, so bugger off me!

too much. qaaol and belem - take your discussion of economies elsewhere, please. if the thing with the plane is going to continue for long, then take it elsewhere, too.

qaaol - i have enough evidence, i think. i was tired, and hoping someone would finish it that night (assuming that most here are in the eastern US).

euroslavia - i direct your attention to http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=93298&highlight=

genworks - Larisa Shpagina, a young Berëzan industrial engineer, had been fond of nature, particularly trees, her entire life. If her job had not been so lucrative, she would have long moved out of the major port city of Parrot Bay, to some small town in the country. But Parrot Bay city planners knew that she was not alone, and hence designed the city with parks aplenty. At 9:30pm local time, she was taking a stroll through the largest one with her wife, Lilit. The weather and the park were typically Berëzan - large clearings and dense pine & birch forests, an overcast sky, and a thick, wet snow swirling everywhere. The park had been lit with soft blue lamps (not usual yellow ones) since the sun went down at 3pm that day. Only the stone walk and the benches were mostly clean of snow - the rest was covered in it, disturbed by children that played in it earlier that day. Presently, an abnormally loud roar filled the otherwise serene atmosphere that earned Berëza its name. It grew still louder, as she, Lilit, and the few other walkers looked up to see a large patch of sky brightening. Surely, the war couldn't've begun yet. The bright patches came sharply into focus, as two blocky and angular Maako Shuttles pretty much fell out of the sky. Ironically enough, one of them had toppled a birch tree ['birch' in russian is 'berëza'], much to the dismay of Larisa. The noise and light were enough that the previously sparsely-populated park was being entered by everyone from the city around it. The two ships still sat there, steaming, while a circle of civilians, and an increasing number of police, surrounded it.

So much for serenity - the park was packed, loud, and busy. Two platoons of 40 Berëzan soldiers, in full winter battle gear, arrived just before a hatch/door on one of the ships opened, to reveal a skinny guy with a green sweatshirt and aviator glasses. Besides being obviously unarmed, he looked too out-of-place (especially in this weather) to draw aims from the soldiers. Obviously weary, he shouted something that nobody understood, except the sharper-looking delegate that walked out behind him. In studied Russian, the delegate insisted on being taken to a government official. Some of the soldiers walked up to the pilot and delegate, and told them to come with. The delegate explained the pilot's desire for coffee, and the soldiers all burst out laughing. In Russian, one replied, "Coffee? Nobody in Berëza drinks coffee, except foreigners and those wishing they were French. Here," he handed his canteen to the pilot. "If that doesn't wake him up, nothing will." The canteen, actually a thermos bottle, had some dark red-tinted liquid in it. Nervously, the pilot took a sip, immediately spitting it out with a look of utter disgust. Everyone, even the hundreds of civilians around, burst out in laughter. It wasn't long, however, before the poor pilot stopped spitting, got a monstrously heavy Berëzan military coat draped over him, stopped shivering, and took another drink. He was definitely awake as he, the delegate (who keeps looking at the thermos with interest), and some of the soldiers climbed into a van that took them to the government building. The rest stayed behind to guard the shuttles.

One of the guards noticed the pilot pointing at his gun. He happened to be the one with the machine gun. Though the former spoke no Russian (a few more shots of the stuff he had - liquor distilled from fermented black tea - and he'd be speaking little but Russian), and the latter no English, the soldier took the MG-42 off his shoulders, flipped on the safety, and let the pilot, sagging under the massive coat, hold it.

They arrived at a huge, gothic-cathedral-like building. Just as the rear door of the van opened, two officials in stark black overcoats jumped in, closed the door, and announced, "We heard about what happened. Take us back to the ships. Drive! This is an urgent matter of utmost importance. I apologize for the terse manner, but we have to hurry. I am Alla Gor'unova, my aide is Maxim Toch'kovski, and we're both agents of the Berëzan Ministry of the Exterior. We'll see to it that you're well-treated during your stay here, however long that may be. In the meantime, we're going to take a look at what we're dealing with, and then deal with it. Once again, your cargo is of utmost importance, and as my communique stated in a telegram he sent yesterday, you won't regret this deal."

OOC: im ignoring any future tech u give him.

ok. you'll see what it is eventually - it's not future tech. the clock is still ticking.

Belem refuses the demands.


OOC: lets keep ally involvement with troops to 1-2 nations each to keep things simple.

you refuse the demands? i'll give you until the rest of your 12 hours to reconsider. bear in mind that i'm getting more nations pledging their support by the minute, and i know i'll get more if need be. you'll be vastly outnumbered and outgunned.

i think we could handle 3-4 allies each. however - i doubt i'll have less than that, so i'll just make short posts of what my allies are doing.

OOC: if we have 4 allies each then its 10 nations posting. It gets to be way too confusing then.

yeah, i guess you're right. well, since Qaaol is the only official ally i have, the rest will either have to clear it with you and me, or i'll post their movements in my own posts. you keep it down to 2 or 3.

oh yeah, in the very likely event of war, i'll make a separate thread in IntInc.

OOC: i still havent accepted Quaals 'forces' and anyway he basicaly said hes not going to be online till after thanksgiving war will probably be over by then anyway.

"accepted" quaaolchoura's forces? it's not a matter of accept/deny - if i attack, they're pretty definitely attacking, too.

not so sure about the war ending by then - you're slightly stronger. i have a higher opinion of my warfare abilities than yours. hence, it's likely to be a stalemate, or close, for a while.

I havent accepted his model for his economy. by his reasoning he could just produce an unlimited amount of weapons because hes supposed to have a command economy and refuses to accept standard NS RPing is that your economy no matter free market or command symbolizes how much you can produce.

hm...i'ven't thought about it much meself, but it does seem odd. in that case, seeing's how i have more money than i can effectively spend on my military, i'm going to fund q's army. basically - my equipment and my vehicles and such with his/her soldiers.

hm...i'ven't thought about it much meself, but it does seem odd. in that case, seeing's how i have more money than i can effectively spend on my military, i'm going to fund q's army. basically - my equipment and my vehicles and such with his/her soldiers.

that would be acceptable if he accepts it but remember it takes months to years to build an effective fighting force with enough planes and ships to fight an overseas war.

it doesn't take quite as long if you've got a 35-million-strong army that has an average of 1.3 assault rifles, 2.5 pistols, and 18.4 hand grenades per person (including support staff and whatnot, not just actual combat people). we're rather large, but we're also very well-equipped, by virtue of our hardware being simple and inexpensive to manufacture (just about everything incorporates the soviet wartime design strategy - crude, simple, very effective, and built in huge numbers).

so most of your military budget goes to your army i guess?

...So wait, you guys are going to attack Belem because he doesn't allow homosexuals to exist in his nation? as much as I hate this nation I will defend him in this war.

Why? you might ask? Because Homosexuality is fundamentally wrong!

not you, too!

anyway, i'm tired and off to sleep. no, roughly a fifth of my military budget goes to the army. the navy gets a little less, the air force about the same, and the special forces a little more.

We the nation of Trasa Stand side to side with our friend and ally Belem. you attack him there will be heck to pay from me :twisted:
You are about the same size as I am, and Belem is about the same size as Bereza. Uvon, will likely make up the difference, and we may get more allies.

OOC: I know that my economy is imploded, that is quite deliberate. I was disgusted, with the amount that people used economies in RP, and did it to make a point, so don't even try pulling that on me.

In case you decide to call this godmodding:

a. The "g" word is best not tossed around lightly. I'll concede that I am not an expert on the way that units funtion, but I know how diplomacy, civilian infrastructure, and logistics (to an extent, I wouldn't say that I am an expert on it yet)
b. "Economy" is only defined by the power of my corparations, and hence trade power with capitalist nations. I will therefore produce things myself or purchase them from nations which acknowledge the power of my public sector and civillian infrastucture and social benefits.

I know that someone will try to use that against me, so best to throw it out now, so that you are aware how I intend to fuction.

Peace (or not), Truth, and Justice,
Luke(Qaaolchoura)

We are also eternal allies of the nation of Belem. After 3 months of Combat experience we will assist them if the time comes.

OOC: Patiently awaits orders from Menelmacar on what side I'm on. Whichever side I'm against is going to get a chemwhippin on their cities.

I would agree, you really do not want belem to start calling in allies, for one he could call on the IDI and they stomp very well offending nations, just look at what happened during the Tordoran wars to Tordor. Belem is an Ally of Teritora, we may not agree with all their internal politics but they are ally and if they ask for our aid we will give it.

OOC: Patiently awaits orders from Menelmacar on what side I'm on. Whichever side I'm against is going to get a chemwhippin on their cities.

OOC: when did u become siris lap dog? You realize this is a religious war?

you refuse the demands? i'll give you until the rest of your 12 hours to reconsider. bear in mind that i'm getting more nations pledging their support by the minute, and i know i'll get more if need be. you'll be vastly outnumbered and outgunned.

i think we could handle 3-4 allies each. however - i doubt i'll have less than that, so i'll just make short posts of what my allies are doing.

If needs be I could rally another 7 nations to belems cause. But ofcourse it's their call.

Belem? me and my ally Kaderba pledge our support to you

Belem? me and my ally Kaderba pledge our support to you

thanks.

http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=2161869#2161869

hm...i see why you might want to limit allies.

OOC: its pretty much even in numbers. its just the frequency of posts that bother me with large scale wars ever try to sort through a World War thread? Its near damn impossible. Even with forces under others commands it gets confusing because whos sending more troops by tgram who uses different weapons, thats why I suggested making it invite only with a set number. Then we have to do puppet checks to make sure no one is fighting twice.

We,The Kingdom Of Drunken Ireland,will stand and fight against Bereza if he decides to take military action against Belem.I dare you. :evil:

We the nation of Trasa Stand side to side with our friend and ally Belem. you attack him there will be heck to pay from me :twisted:
And I also,stop your bluffing Bereza.You have nothing against Belem.

Ladies and Gentlemen I believe that things could get extremely out of hand should things continue as they are. For every nation that locates this section of the forum more than likely we shall have yet another ally for one side or the other. Also a war would just exhaust our nations and their ability to defend themselves. I therefor suggest mediation, not between sides for that could take far too long, but between two key national figures. Even though I have thrown medical support to one fo the forces it was primarly to relieve the suffering of the free peoples of all nations.
I must chastise any memebr of the UN who would become involved in this affair which either way ends with death without attempting to mediate. Therefor I propose that the lead nation of the TAOBB and the Emperor of Belem submit to mediation, no side would leave a war like this intact. I offer myself as a mediator or perhaps another can be found.
Please consider this, a chance to submit evidence and arguments without so many around pushing for more bloodshed.


Signed
The Honorable
Burgoyne Watoka
Empress Judge of Nights Whisper

i have plenty against belem. nights whisper - we laud your noble efforts at peace, but we have presented evidence that, undenied, we feel is enough to justify military action. belem has refused to back down from the hate campaign. if he had, we would have backed down from our threat.

mediation will only delay what seems inevitable. during that delay, more and more innocent lives and dignities will be violently trampled upon in the Imperial Empire.

however, if it can be assured that there is a halt in the violence (through neutral observers in belem proper, for instance), at least for the duration of the mediation, then we will accept your proposal.

"We heard about what happened. Take us back to the ships. Drive! This is an urgent matter of utmost importance. I apologize for the terse manner, but we have to hurry. I am Alla Gor'unova, my aide is Maxim Toch'kovski, and we're both agents of the Berëzan Ministry of the Exterior. We'll see to it that you're well-treated during your stay here, however long that may be. In the meantime, we're going to take a look at what we're dealing with, and then deal with it. Once again, your cargo is of utmost importance, and as my communique stated in a telegram he sent yesterday, you won't regret this deal."

The Delegate, a half-asian man named Joseph Chun-Lin, was also half Russian.

He spoke up in fluent Russian (a hint of a Canadian accent, as he was born and raised in Toronto), "I know we wont. We trust as Comrades. I have a complete listing of the parts we have brought for you."

He put on reading glasses and took out a piece of paper, "We have:

~Four Genworks' XL-Mainframe Computers© (which at last test each had the power of three of the latest IBM Models)

~A central Military-Grade Processing Core

~Seven Hundred Genworks' Military Application Cards which will fit in any Mainframe, Core, or even PC Card Slots

~Seven Hundred Genworks Insight 6© Processers

~Twelve Million Missile Guidance chips for missile installation (which can be set to heat seeking, movement, or energy signature)

~A Genworks Omega 10© Communication array for wireless communication between computers and missiles, and can also be used for processing troop communication with completely secure channels.

~Experimental Technology we call the Spycode©. It has so far been able to unscramble any data code we feed it based on it's knowledge of Binary, The English Language, and Japanese Characters. It's logic and extrapolation technology is highly advanced and we were only able to make one with our limited resources. It's going to you. It takes 3 hours per line of text and it's bigger than the rest of the computers combined, but it's priceless if you can intercept enemy communications."

He folded the piece of paper back up as they arrived back at the landing site. More people had gathered around, some looking sad about the tree.

"Oh man," The Pilot said, looking rather sad himself, said in English "I hit a Birch? I didn't even notice. Damn." He turned to one of the Berezan (sp?) delegates, "Hey, gimme some time and I can replant that. I used to be a good gardener back in Mexico."

"I shall be remaining for some time as well," Chun-Lin said, also in English "I have been assigned Ambassadorial Privilages during this time of crisis. I am also a trained Genworks technician and can help with Installation and Training."

i have plenty against belem. nights whisper - we laud your noble efforts at peace, but we have presented evidence that, undenied, we feel is enough to justify military action. belem has refused to back down from the hate campaign. if he had, we would have backed down from our threat.

mediation will only delay what seems inevitable. during that delay, more and more innocent lives and dignities will be violently trampled upon in the Imperial Empire.

however, if it can be assured that there is a halt in the violence (through neutral observers in belem proper, for instance), at least for the duration of the mediation, then we will accept your proposal.

no foreign troops or observers will be allowed on Belem soil.

Belem, would you allow friendly observers? for some reason Im siding with you...I never would have thought that possible a few months ago.

Belem, would you allow friendly observers? for some reason Im siding with you...I never would have thought that possible a few months ago.

observers to watch the war?

The Delegate, a half-asian man named Joseph Chun-Lin, was also half Russian. ...
"I shall be remaining for some time as well," Chun-Lin said, also in English "I have been assigned Ambassadorial Privilages during this time of crisis. I am also a trained Genworks technician and can help with Installation and Training."

Both agents were computer experts, and both goggled at the list, Maxim almost letting a string of drool. Good stuff, though the Spycode computer was a little suspicious. They were also honored that the only working prototype was going to them. Alla snapped out of her dreamy daze, and spoke in English, "Ok, we're going to need a lot of trucks to move all this stuff to where it's to go. If you can take off and land at our military manufacturing base near Smirnoff, however, that'd work much easier."

It would take a while for the new OS, and all the hardware, to be integrated into the Berëzan military. Fighting would probably begin before much of the integration did, but given the pretty even match-up, the new technology would have time to make a significant impact on the war. In particular, it would solve the problem of missiles' computers crashing in mid-flight, which caused them to do something completely unpredictable, but never to actually keep working. The problem first became evident during the Belmore wargame, and unchecked, would probably be a noticable disadvantage.

yeah, you hit a birch, the namesake of our country. oh well. None of the guards understood the pilot's words as he pointed to the snapped tree, but understood that he was apologizing. With as emphatic a tone of voice and gestures as she could muster, one of the soldiers got the point accross that he needn't worry about it.

"If you can't take off and land elsewhere, then we'll get more soldiers to guard your ships, and we invite you to our government center, where I imagine the living conditions are somewhat better than aboard a shuttle."

OOC: Patiently awaits orders from Menelmacar on what side I'm on. Whichever side I'm against is going to get a chemwhippin on their cities.

OOC: when did u become siris lap dog? You realize this is a religious war?

OOC: She said she doesn't care.

IC: 5 Legions began to be transported towards Belem. On board each Troopship, strategies and combat doctrines were being planned.

[code:1:693fbb82fd]This is Grand Army 15, Belem STC. Requesting permission to land, and meet with the commanding generals of the allied forces. We would appreciate being allowed to dock in your largest sea port.[/code:1:693fbb82fd]

The Kregan Alliance has arrived.
Buka Mukalu
Phlan
Kimbala
Teknala
Mandova
Khazad ah Karak
Dahlen
and
Juress

OOC: Patiently awaits orders from Menelmacar on what side I'm on. Whichever side I'm against is going to get a chemwhippin on their cities.

OOC: when did u become siris lap dog? You realize this is a religious war?

OOC: She said she doesn't care.

IC: 5 Legions began to be transported towards Belem. On board each Troopship, strategies and combat doctrines were being planned.

[code:1:7b7665107a]This is Grand Army 15, Belem STC. Requesting permission to land, and meet with the commanding generals of the allied forces. We would appreciate being allowed to dock in your largest sea port.[/code:1:7b7665107a]

IC: Permission to dock in Imperial Center(capitol) and permission is granted to meet with General Vitalle. How many troops and how much equipment is in each legion?

The Kregan Alliance has arrived.
Buka Mukalu
Phlan
Kimbala
Teknala
Mandova
Khazad ah Karak
Dahlen
and
Juress

thanks.

the alliance has arrived. does that mean they're already in belem proper, and can retaliate immediately if we're to attack?

furthermore, how much of each nation's army is actually there?

ooc: heeey...where'd my other two posts (double posts) that said "edit" go? do we finally have such thing as a cleanup mod, or something of the sort?

well Roanias troops arrived. Ill have to ask Buka when he comes back what he sent.

I am assuming from the lack of response by the Empire that my offer of mediation was rejected. Due to that and the absolute refusual to allow observers of any kind in then I am left with no other option. Before, I had pledged the use of my medical corp to the TAOBB for the purpose of healing and assisting in the evacuation of any refugees. Unless the Emperor changes his mind and submits to mediation and observers, then I will offer the full military and diplomatic support of my nation to the TAOBB.
Troops that are prepped and ready to move out.

Signed
Burgoyne Watoka
Empress Judge

[i]makes sure that the land he bought from Belem is intact.

find's it's still there and sighs in relif that Castle Wolfenstien wasn't destroyed[i]


Belem is a good Nation, but be does have flaw's yes. but they are minor flaws.

I am assuming from the lack of response by the Empire that my offer of mediation was rejected. Due to that and the absolute refusual to allow observers of any kind in then I am left with no other option. Before, I had pledged the use of my medical corp to the TAOBB for the purpose of healing and assisting in the evacuation of any refugees. Unless the Emperor changes his mind and submits to mediation and observers, then I will offer the full military and diplomatic support of my nation to the TAOBB.
Troops that are prepped and ready to move out.

Signed
Burgoyne Watoka
Empress Judge

and how are they going to get to Belem? Are they going to go on leaky rafts?

Mighty Emperor of Belem,
You speak sharply and without thinking, possibly something that has caused this situation to become so volitile. Knowing so little about the internal workings of both my nation and its allies I find your presumtions to be....entertaining. If you continue to act and think as you have done in the past then this war might be easier than I thought to win.

"If you can't take off and land elsewhere, then we'll get more soldiers to guard your ships, and we invite you to our government center, where I imagine the living conditions are somewhat better than aboard a shuttle."

The pilot, Lt Juan Cisto, said "I can get these guys out. Gimme a while and I'll get them erect and flying."

In a while he and used the nose-jets to get the ships standing on thier rear power jets. The second ship was computer-automated getting signals from Lt Cisto's ship and Delegate Chun-Lin's piloting console inside the first ship. They took off and landed at the desegnatged co-ordinates.

A WHILE LATER

"You see, the card allows for this," Chun-Lin was showing the delegates and officials of Bereza how to use thier new technology. He has a small model rocket on a desk, a computer with one of the Military Cards in it, and a joystick. On the computer screen was a small readout of the model rocket's position and a put-together digital image of it's surroundings.

Chun-Lin handed the joystick to Cisto. Cisto slowly fiddled around with the joystick, and the model rocket lifted off inch by inch. It bobbed up and down two feet from the air, and then Cisto pulled to the right and the model exploded towards the wall.

"As you can imagine," Chun-Lin explained, "on a full scale this could mean accurate pinpointing of missiles and the ability to avoid interception. But the software isn't completely reliable: if the imaging scanners go off-line, it will take precious minutes to switch to either heat-seeking or energy signature."

"Hey," Cisto asked, "what is energy signature anyway?"

"oh," Chun-Lin had forgotten about that, "well I also brought this along."

He had two glass globes with small plasma generators in the center. One glowed green, the other purple.

"I've set this missile chip to energy signature," Chun-Lin produced a small hovering machine that didn't do much but move in certain directions, "and I've set the machine to not crash. Now," he clicked on a setting on the computer, "I'm about to set it to electrical"

The hovering machine swooped to the electrical outlet in the wall.

"Now to plasma"

The hoverer swooped directly between the plasma balls and stayed there.

"Now I'm setting it to the frequency of the green plasma only."

The hoverer jolted and nearly struck the green plasma ball.

"This also works for communication bands. If you can narrow down the radio frequency and program it into the computer, the missile can hunt down the source. However, it will not observe mountains, trees, or anything of that sort, so do not use it unless an unobstructed path is clear."

Mighty Emperor of Belem,
You speak sharply and without thinking, possibly something that has caused this situation to become so volitile. Knowing so little about the internal workings of both my nation and its allies I find your presumtions to be....entertaining. If you continue to act and think as you have done in the past then this war might be easier than I thought to win.

You have a population of 40 million and a fair economy. I have a population of over a billion and a frightening economy.

You realize your budget is only about 40 billion according to the GDP calc

And do you realize, Dread Emperor of Belem, that my nation has been devoted to learning and knowledge since its founding? Research has received a great deal of money over the years and so, by the limit of 2010 which I believe was set, my nation has the potential to be technologically superior. While that may or may not mean better weapons it could mean cheaper methods of manufacturing, longer lasting energy cores, better medical advancements ect. If I can produce a dozen heavy weapons at the half the cost that you do, then really any force I can muster for the same amount of money is doubled.
In other words, thanks to a devoution to learning and giving the freedom to do so my nation may be small but very dangerous. There are other things to take into account besides economy.
Another point is that there could also be other nations that, while they don't want to become heavily involved, are willing to allocate funds to support what they consider a worthy cause.

You realize Belm has been researching new weapons since before your nation was even created? Belem has a large enough budget to put 5 to 6 times your enter budget into its research

Another point is that there could also be other nations that, while they don't want to become heavily involved, are willing to allocate funds to support what they consider a worthy cause.

like MEEEE

To all the newer nations in this topic who want to fight against Belem: perhaps if you all join together, you can make some impact.

Then again, he's GDODAD. So yeah, take any losses neccessary to give him punishment.

*nods politely to Genworks*
Another thing to take into consideration, Emperor of Belem, is that your nation is run in a way that is excellent for researching what you want to research. There is a problem with that, a great lack of creativity and reason. With you executing people left and right you have lost a great deal of your genetic pool, leaving you with only those who are easily cowed and won't speak out about new ideas. The threat of death probably means little to them anymore, after seeing so much of it. In order to motivate your people you would have to spend a great deal more than I would just to get your ideas brought to life. Meanwhile my nation encourages creativity and free thinking, death doesn't loom over their heads every second. Based on political and historical models (according to such articles, studies, and books as: A History of the Modern World by RR Palmer, Archaeology and the Methodology of Science by Jane H. Kelly & Marsha Hanen, and Traditional Cultures: and the Impact of Technological Change by George Foster) my output for advancements is roughly seven times that of yours for the same amount of money at the very least. Not only that but the variety is greater, such as the idea of using super heated porcelein beads (much cheaper with a greater range and accuracy) as bullets instead of metal. Same effect, a fourth of the price. Don't think it would work? Look it up sometime.
To put it mildly any lead you might have gained by time and money has already been lost thanks to additional backing for my nation.
I look forward to this little war.

Actually the scientist in Belem are well paid to come up with new ways to kill. Intelligent people who show creativty are given government scholarships and research funding. Also we dont execute people left and right we only execute criminals.

OOC: Patiently awaits orders from Menelmacar on what side I'm on. Whichever side I'm against is going to get a chemwhippin on their cities.

OOC: when did u become siris lap dog? You realize this is a religious war?

OOC: She said she doesn't care.

IC: 5 Legions began to be transported towards Belem. On board each Troopship, strategies and combat doctrines were being planned.

[code:1:8b77577feb]This is Grand Army 15, Belem STC. Requesting permission to land, and meet with the commanding generals of the allied forces. We would appreciate being allowed to dock in your largest sea port.[/code:1:8b77577feb]

IC: Permission to dock in Imperial Center(capitol) and permission is granted to meet with General Vitalle. How many troops and how much equipment is in each legion?

[code:1:8b77577feb]Precise soldiers are 5000, Legion Air Force Personnel making up 15%, Armored corps 20%, Ground forces remaining. 10 more legions are on standby. We shall require barracks, and airfields.[/code:1:8b77577feb]

To roania:done and done. three bases will be allocated for your troops 1 in sector defense north, sector defense south, and sector defense central. We will most likely need your troops for Rapid Response Troops in the case of a wall breech we will need troops to set up a kill zone to prevent troops from entering the interior of the country.

[code:1:479c97f05b]Understood. However, we would prefer urban defense. If our Legionnares were defending your capital, than that frees up your troops. Very few of our ground vehicles move faster than 50 mph, and our Legionnares wear heavy flak jackets. Urban defense would work better than aggresive response.[/code:1:479c97f05b]

We could use extra troops in our ports which are the technical weak spots of our defense.

[code:1:9f571bf746]Very well. 2 Legions are going to defend the capital, with others going towards the major ports. The fleet shall set up in the capital, and the others will, when they arrive, be split up.[/code:1:9f571bf746]

Excellent.

Our two largest port cities after Imperial Center are Moonglow and Trinsic.

[code:1:d13a7d41f7]Very good[/code:1:d13a7d41f7]

Legions disembark, and begin to enter into the barracks, after having the security systems configured to allow them in.

The Inquisitor divisions in the city show the Roanians where to set up. The locations are basically across the docks which can not be surrounded by the wall.

The Legionnare commander sends a radio message. Out there, several more fleets begin to head towards Belem, carrying crates of supplies. Also coming are several battalions of Roanian Inquisitors.

OOC: What is the military strength of Belem? So that I know how to set up oocly and what support I can expect?

105 Divisions with 25 thousand troops each and 1500 tanks each positiong across the wall 3 thousand mile stretch. the 25 thousand includes tank crews so only about 10-12 Infantry. Each division has a thousand artillery pieces and APCs.

another 20 divisions in the cities behind the wall.

3 Divisions of Inquisitors. 1 in Belem, 1 in Moonglow(southermost city) and 1 in Trinsic(Northernmost)

left this out 40 of those 105 are reservists.

Also the Belem Defense Militia(all able bodied men between 16-60) has been called up in limited numbers. Basically a a couple of thousand in each city manning flak guns and about two million being positioned on the wall.

I'll check how much Buka is sending when he comes online

In TOTAL the Alliance has sent

2500 SAS (Commando/Scout) Troops
10 Carriers
8 Battleships
30 Destroyers
40 Su-34s
30 MiG-29s
25 Kukaka Amphibious Tanks
4,000,000 Infantry.

I'll check how much Buka is sending when he comes online

In TOTAL the Alliance has sent

2500 SAS (Commando/Scout) Troops
10 Carriers
8 Battleships
30 Destroyers
40 Su-34s
30 MiG-29s
25 Kukaka Amphibious Tanks
4,000,000 Infantry.

oh btw Belem.

Will we all fit in your country? :P :lol:

yes they will.

the question he should be asking is will he survive my army of about 10 million (that's 5 % of my POP) TSD Troopers and 300 Tanks

the question he should be asking is will he survive my army of about 10 million (that's 5 % of my POP) TSD Troopers and 300 Tanks

your going to invade bereza with 10 million troops?!? Damn you go all out.

:) i love the smell of napalm in the morning don't you Belem, oh and Kaderba is going to help you defend your land if they try to invade while i am taking them out

:) i love the smell of napalm in the morning don't you Belem, oh and Kaderba is going to help you defend your land if they try to invade while i am taking them out

thanks. you know that 12 hour ultimatuem is up...*sits and waits patiently*

:twisted: excellent - i mean ummm, that's too bad :twisted:

we're mobilizing, we're mobilizing...give it time... the black army* isn't known for its speed.

soviet trasa - if you try to invade us, you will be crushed. as it stands, the Belem Defensive Force* is considerably stronger than TAOBB, but i could take any of you individually if you attack.

ooc: i propose/would prefer if the Berëzan military were known as the Black Army (sorta like the soviet one is the Red Army). maybe it's a little cheesy, but i'm surprised i haven't seen it taken yet. and would you care to use BDF as the official designation of the entire force defending Belem?

furthermore ooc...just making this a more fair fight. i hope you'll appreciate and reciprocate when/if appropriate - given your population and economy, you can easily claim a force about double what you have (the 105/25 thing).

and finally...what sort of wall is this? i need to know what it looks like/what it's made of/etc. for RP. also, tell me generally what sort of troops you have/what they look like/what weapons they use, and how much you'd object if i made up some probably irrelevant thing about them (like the color of their uniforms, if you don't tell me) or about whatever else i encounter if/when i attack.

OOC: Let's see 1.5% of 800,000,000 (by Wednesday when I'm really able to RP) is 12,000,000, but that can not be mobilized all at once, and as I've only RPed war once before, and it was rather quick and limited, I'm not suure about howlong mobilization would take, how much air and naval power I have, ad how much I could send over to Belem by transit. I'd appreciate input, and I'd look into it myself Wednesday evening. Until then, assume that I am sending a half mllion soldiers and an aircraft carrier by naval transit to Belem (just departing mind you I'll RP a sort of D-day when I get there), and I am sending a million troops to Bereza to help against Soviet Trasa if that is all right with him.

Do you mind keeping the RP to a snail's pace until Wednesday evening, I won't be on much longer today, and then I might not be on again until after finals.

we're mobilizing, we're mobilizing...give it time... the black army* isn't known for its speed.

soviet trasa - if you try to invade us, you will be crushed. as it stands, the Belem Defensive Force* is considerably stronger than TAOBB, but i could take any of you individually if you attack.

ooc: i propose/would prefer if the Berëzan military were known as the Black Army (sorta like the soviet one is the Red Army). maybe it's a little cheesy, but i'm surprised i haven't seen it taken yet. and would you care to use BDF as the official designation of the entire force defending Belem?

furthermore ooc...just making this a more fair fight. i hope you'll appreciate and reciprocate when/if appropriate - given your population and economy, you can easily claim a force about double what you have (the 105/25 thing).

and finally...what sort of wall is this? i need to know what it looks like/what it's made of/etc. for RP. also, tell me generally what sort of troops you have/what they look like/what weapons they use, and how much you'd object if i made up some probably irrelevant thing about them (like the color of their uniforms, if you don't tell me) or about whatever else i encounter if/when i attack.

I dont claim more troops because then its harder to have the tanks operate at the squad level.

In total all over the country I have 160 Divisions including the ones at the wall.

The wall is basically 10-15 feet tall is at the edge of beachline in the North Terriorities where the beaches are surrounded by cliffs the wall is on the cliffs.the first 5-7 feet of the wall is has packed dirt and sand bags to give it about 5 feet of protection. 10 Artillery batteriesper mile not including 1 16 incher and 22 incher per mile. Artillery batteries are 3 guns each. The wall is dotted with bunkers for machinegunners. 4 missile batteries per miles mainly anti ship since this is coastal defense. you wont be able to see this from land but the rear section of the wall has the AA missiles. Per mile you have 10 Phalanx Point Defense Systems and 10 Steel Wall PDS. They can either shoot down incomming missiles or be directed to strafe the beach. Troops are setting up more sandbags on the wall between gun emplacements and tanks are being positioned up top.
At the base of the wall sticking out of the sandbags are spikes sticking out about 2 feet this is their basic setup is this:

\
-
With one spike pointing down and one point straight out.

about every 10 miles there are gates to get onto the beaches from behind the wall(including some public beaches by the cities) these are the most heavily defended and minefields and have been installed in previously unmined areas.

The Beach at the edge of the water line has a long line of Dragons Teeth every 5th one is rigged to explode if someone tries to move it(only side that is rigged is side facing the ocean so my men can move them). Those are wrapped in field of barbed wire.
Past that are mine fields with claymores, anti tank mines, shoebox mines(wooden mines), regular anti Personal mines, bouncing betties, and Napalm mines which is a 3 yard long mine where it napalm for a foot then an explosive which is designed to shoot upwards and sideways kill who ever is in front of it then create a field of fire. These are arranged in circles to create kill zones. The beach will be littered with Dragons Teeth and halfway through another set of barbed wire. At the sandwall more barbed wire dragons teeth and mines.

Half a mile out to sea most of the waters are heavily mined and patrolled by PT boats.

soviet trasa - if you try to invade us, you will be crushed. as it stands, the Belem Defensive Force* is considerably stronger than TAOBB, but i could take any of you individually if you attack.


Well, then we shall have to call upon Kaderba to assist in the invasion :roll:

he's a Billion Nation

The Black Army is preparing to mobilize when they spot three objects hurdling through atmosphere, a heat trail following them.

At an altitude of 1,000 ft the objects level and come in the direction of the army. Soon it's obvious that it's not three objects, but three lines of aircraft. In front of each line are 2 Maako Shuttles, followed each by 3 Razor Fighters, and 3 Eagle Fighters.

They break into a wider formation and land near the troops.

"Genworks Squadron Alpha reporting fer duty!" A pilot climbs out of the cockpit of the lead Maako, "Our intelligence reported you guys needed a hand, so here we are!" He looked back at the crafts, "No much, but they'll help. Maakos got them a good manueverability with some medium yield machine guns. The Razors have bombs and some high-yield machine guns and are faster than the Maakos, but aren't very manueverable. Eagles got them some missiles and machine guns, and thier speed and manueverability is somewhere in between."

The pilot smiled and then looked like he had a realization and saluted.

"We're takin orders from you now. Tanaka's orders."

Don't make me come in and help Belem

The Black Army is preparing to mobilize when they spot three objects hurdling through atmosphere, a heat trail following them.

At an altitude of 1,000 ft the objects level and come in the direction of the army. Soon it's obvious that it's not three objects, but three lines of aircraft. In front of each line are 2 Maako Shuttles, followed each by 3 Razor Fighters, and 3 Eagle Fighters.

They break into a wider formation and land near the troops.

"Genworks Squadron Alpha reporting fer duty!" A pilot climbs out of the cockpit of the lead Maako, "Our intelligence reported you guys needed a hand, so here we are!" He looked back at the crafts, "No much, but they'll help. Maakos got them a good manueverability with some medium yield machine guns. The Razors have bombs and some high-yield machine guns and are faster than the Maakos, but aren't very manueverable. Eagles got them some missiles and machine guns, and thier speed and manueverability is somewhere in between."

The pilot smiled and then looked like he had a realization and saluted.

"We're takin orders from you now. Tanaka's orders."

space fighters now? So I assume those are you only 6 fighters considering you would have to spend billions of dollars for each fighter to have it both atomospheric and the interplanaterly. You already claimed to only be 20 years ahead of the United States.

i don't like the space fighters thing, either. i want to keep this war modern, not future. how's about we just stick to the computer gizmos you gave me?

that said, i got real sick IRL, and have neither the mood nor the full ability to continue this for now. i do want to continue this, but not when i'm like this. is it all right with all those involved if we put this on pause for now?

sure.

hope mods don't purge this thread in the meanwhile.

((OOC In recognition of the desire to keep this war Mod I will not be joining in Fighting still.. Cash is always an option. Actually it fits better, we only would want to get involved for the PR, This way we get the PR and not an Eldar life is lost.))

IC The Council has voted to give to the coalition seeking to return basic sentient rights to the Belem a Loan of 5.5 Billion Paths. To be repayed in installments after the war, with no interest above that of Inflation. We hope this loan will be accepted.

Farseer Council

You realize Belm has been researching new weapons since before your nation was even created? Belem has a large enough budget to put 5 to 6 times your enter budget into its research

Belem...you may have been researching weapons way longer than this guy, but you still use Tomahawks and Oliver Hazard Perry Class Frigates buddy.

Where are your lasers? your "Space Marines" and such. I got them...why? because I answered the issue man. SPACE WEAPONS ARE GO! Because it is an official nation states issue.

Thats the problem with nations these days.... They're around for acouple of months and think their all powerful just because their space tech. :?

space fighters now? So I assume those are you only 6 fighters considering you would have to spend billions of dollars for each fighter to have it both atomospheric and the interplanaterly. You already claimed to only be 20 years ahead of the United States.

Only the Maako are truly interplanetary. The other fighters were towed, hence why they came in a line. Fighters are airtight ande pressurized anyway, we just gave them 20 hrs of Oxygen too.

oh, and the Maakos won't be space-worthy again for a while. They'd need repairs to the heat-shields. And hell, none of them have lasers. Machineguns and Missiles man.

You realize Belm has been researching new weapons since before your nation was even created? Belem has a large enough budget to put 5 to 6 times your enter budget into its research

Belem...you may have been researching weapons way longer than this guy, but you still use Tomahawks and Oliver Hazard Perry Class Frigates buddy.

Where are your lasers? your "Space Marines" and such. I got them...why? because I answered the issue man. SPACE WEAPONS ARE GO! Because it is an official nation states issue.

Because 80% of nations stay completely modern tech its easier that way. And I have some modern laser to 2010(2020 max) lasers like an SDI grid, and orbital nukes.

space fighters now? So I assume those are you only 6 fighters considering you would have to spend billions of dollars for each fighter to have it both atomospheric and the interplanaterly. You already claimed to only be 20 years ahead of the United States.

Only the Maako are truly interplanetary. The other fighters were towed, hence why they came in a line. Fighters are airtight ande pressurized anyway, we just gave them 20 hrs of Oxygen too.
20 hours of oxygen? Do you have any idea how fast you would have to go to go from Mars to the Earth in under 20 hours? And you still claim your basically modern tech with just some space features.

The best thing for you right now is to just stop posting in this thread so I dont ignore you completely.

i'm back. and you thought i was dead. well, i came close...anyway.

all the shuttles did was deliver us some nifty computer parts. they might as well've been helicopters, and genworks an earth-based nation. that event was outside of this war, anyway. all you need to know is that we now have much more reliable computers than before, and that no future tech will be used on my side.

all nations on my side, TM me. belem, provide a 3-part list, please - who's with you, who's partially with you, and Other (including who might join later, who are mercenaries with no opinion, or who's just providing lip service).

i propose that we finish deciding the rules of this war here (mostly how many allies we get, and how many actually post separately from ourselves), and do the war elsewhere.

with me-Roania, Soviet Trasia, Buka

partially with me- lots of people who just dropped in said they were supporting me then never came back, basically not worth mentioning.

other- same thing.

with me - qaaolchoura and KAG

helping out partially - much cash but no troops from tor yvresse (5.5 bil loan), lunatic retard robots (100 bil - thanks!), and others, nights whisper is providing medical troops (not sure if anything else). same here - a bunch of people said they were coming along, or attacking separately, but haven't followed up.

some nations that are offering verbal support have yet to get back to me on whether or not they're offering military aid as well. basically, it's going to start with myself, q, and kag.

by the 3rd or so round of RP (beginning, or midway through the initial shots), i imagine we'll remember who's on whose side, so what do you say to 2 allies each that can post separately? others can be included in your posts. though i've been warned that you godmod and wrongfully ignore and whatnot (i've seen no evidence of that yet), i trust you to help keep things unconfusing.

if you agree to 2 allies, i imagine you'll take roania and soviet trasa?

yeah they send the biggest forces so Ill have them post seperately and I also have no idea what type of armor they use.

And I have only been called a godmodder when 1. I was throughly demolishing someone beyond their utter comphrension and 2. when the person has no knowledge of military tactics or issues what so ever and assumes there troops are invincible. 3. I tell people Im not afraid to use nukes on my own soil if it was absolutely neccesary.

and number 2 is pretty much the only reason I ignore people in a war.

also what percent of your budget is devoted to the military?

space fighters now? So I assume those are you only 6 fighters considering you would have to spend billions of dollars for each fighter to have it both atomospheric and the interplanaterly. You already claimed to only be 20 years ahead of the United States.

Only the Maako are truly interplanetary. The other fighters were towed, hence why they came in a line. Fighters are airtight ande pressurized anyway, we just gave them 20 hrs of Oxygen too.
20 hours of oxygen? Do you have any idea how fast you would have to go to go from Mars to the Earth in under 20 hours? And you still claim your basically modern tech with just some space features.

The best thing for you right now is to just stop posting in this thread so I dont ignore you completely. LOL :lol:

also what percent of your budget is devoted to the military?

I use some future tech myself. Like Subterranian APCs for instance but I'd never go into "Spacefights". I mean what's the use of having Military Space weaponary if your the only one with it. What are you going to do with it? attack yourself? LOL :lol:

yeah they send the biggest forces so Ill have them post seperately and I also have no idea what type of armor they use.

And I have only been called a godmodder when 1. I was throughly demolishing someone beyond their utter comphrension and 2. when the person has no knowledge of military tactics or issues what so ever and assumes there troops are invincible. 3. I tell people Im not afraid to use nukes on my own soil if it was absolutely neccesary.

and number 2 is pretty much the only reason I ignore people in a war.

Gee I and 5 Million BM families wish that we were invinsible. But we were foolish enough to but 70% of our budget into military and now after 1 Month RL whatever that is in game time we're just beginning to recover from a Mass Depression. :shock:

check tgrams buka.

well over half of my budget goes into the military. about half of that money goes to the special forces.

OOC: As I said, I've only really RPed diplomacy before, so I need help.
I have no standing army, so obviously it will take me a while to mobilize (when I do mobilize, it is only minor imaginary mobilizations to put down rebellions in my sattellite puppets, and Qaaolchouraav Mars, so I have really no veterans to speak of either).

The question that I have is, do any of you have any links to sites on mobilization, and miltary breakdown in nations with no standing army (reserves don't count as standing)? I need a general idea.

BTW: I intend to keep half of my mobilized forces in Qaaolchoura, to avoid invasion.

um...proposal to ignore q's mobilization for the sake of speeding all this up.

yeah. Q u were already mobilized with Berezas financing and such.

Heres the alliance buke managed to put togethers contribution to the defense

The Holy Empire of Buka Makalu
Received: 4 hours ago We're sending 4000 SAS
10 Devil's Tongues
15,000,000 Infantry


DEVIL's TONGUE

Subterranian Mammoth Tank with 2 Fire Jet Cannons (like Massive mounted flame throwers). Capable of travelling underground at 200,000' for up to 2 Days

Note: being a modern tech war devils tongues are just going to be flame thrower tanks

er...yeah. flamethrower tanks are fine, but rules of modern tech say no to subterranean almost anything. i imagine any future tech disputes will be taken care of as they arise?

so the following can post - you, me, q, kag, buka, and soviet trasa, correct?

i propose the following rules - no attacking cities (with carpet bombs, nukes, napalm, chem clouds, etc.), and avoid civilian casualties at all reasonable cost (unless they shoot first).

i'll begin on another thread (which i'll link here) as soon as we're all settled.

Well carpet bombing should be allowed easiest way to take out blocks of factories.

our factories are outside of cities, anyway. use smart bombs, then. you're high-tech enough (i hope. if not, you're in for quite a defeat).

Belem? i am going to throw 70% of my army into this campain with you, Kaderba said he'll throw in 80% of HIS army :twisted:


Me and Kaderba are a force to be reckoned with. :twisted:

Ber: ok no carpet bombing of cities.

Soviet: excellent.

http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=2247345#2247345