NationStates Jolt Archive


Cheap Sub Sale

Talkos
01-11-2003, 19:44
"A submarine fleet is the future of the armed forces. The number of tanks and guns will be reduced as well as infantry, but a modern Navy is a totally different thing."
-Army Marshall Pavel Gracev, former Russian Minister of Defense.

"The USS Seawolf cost about $2.1 billion, and the average cost of Los Angeles class subs was around $1 billion. The annual operating cost for any of these subs is approximately $21 million. The typical service life of a nuclear sub is about 30 years. Refueling and modernizing at the half-life point costs about $200 million. Near the end of the service life, another refueling and extensive overhaul for about $410 million will extend the life another 12 years, for a total service life of 42 years. This totals to about $3.6 billion in constant dollars over the lifetime of a Seawolf class sub."
-Briefing given by SSBN Captain Robert Grey to Talkosian Council

The Dominion of Talkos is announcing that it's two new submarines are open for public sale. The Dominion decided to start design and production after the stunning success of our GATO class subs, but the GATO class submarine was dated, underpowered, underarmed, and nearly blind in today's seas. Thus, we are unveiling out new diesel submarines, at 1/4th the inital costs of a Los Angeles class, and maintenence costs being a fraction of what it would cost to use a nuclear submarines, these are today's anwser.

As the GATO's were designed with patrol, interdiction, and covert ops in mind, so were these, the inclusion of deck guns allows these to be effective ships to use in patrol and blockade missions. Their silent signatures in relation to nuclear or most other diesel submarines allow them to slip quietly past enemy patrols in order to deposit covert ops teams. Integrated would be an Air Independant Propulsion system, or AIP, which would allow them to operate for several weeks submerged, a vast improvement over other diesels which can only operate for a few days submerged. They would also have an emphasis on smaller crew requirements. http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=87371&highlight= Finally, they were to be a match in combat, for any modern nuclear submarine.

First, the MAO class. One of the fastest non nuclear submarines in the ocean, with the inclusion of 4 SAM VLS tubes allows it to fight back against the bane of submarines, the ASW helicopters and planes. It's 6" gun makes it perfect for patrol or blockade duties, especially against smaller targets. Its ability to fire Cruise Missiles allows it to take the place of more expensive, and less cost-effective ships when bombarding shore positions, a modern missile cruiser requires escort, but the Mao class is it's own escort. In sea trials including multiple submarines two of them bested a Seawolf and a Los Angeles class submarine in mock combat. It is also smaller than modern nuclear submarines, allowing it to travel in tighter situations.

Mao Advanced Tactical Class Submarines: $350,000,000
Displacement: 1938 tons surfaced, 2600 tons submerged
Length: 320'
Beam: 28’
Draft: 17’
Speed: 18 knots surfaced, 25 knots submerged
Armament: 6”gun(retractable for submersion and automated)
4 bow and 2 stern torpedo tubes, 24 21" torpedoes(533 mm)
Can also be armed with same amount of Tomahawk Cruise Missiles or Harpoon Anti-Ship Missiles. Can also be armed with mines if situation warrants.
4 Vertical Launch Tubes, can carry 12 SAMs
Complement: 50
Operating Depth: 270 Meters
Maximum Depth: 300 Meters
Cruising Range: 12,000 miles surfaced at 10 knots.
Submerged Endurance: 18 Days at 7 knots.
Fuel Capacity: 74,400 gallons.
Patrol Endurance: 80 days.
Air Independent Diesel Hydrogen Hybrid engines
Propulsion: Diesel-electric reduction gear with 4 main generator engines,
1 aux. generator.
4 main motors
2 126-cell main storage batteries.
Combat Systems: Integrated sonar/weapons-control suite
AN/BPS-5 surface search radar, AN/BPS-15 A/16 navigation and fire control radar, TB-16D passive towed sonar arrays, TB-23 passive "thin line" towed array, AN/BQG-5D wide aperture flank array, AN/BQQ-5A/E low frequency spherical sonar array, MIDAS Mine and Ice Detection Avoidance System, SADS-TG active detection sonar

Next, the Katze Class. The little brother to the Mao class. Smaller, slower, and less well armed. Never the less, it is the a marvel of engineering. With it's 3"gun and .50machine gun it fills the role of coastal defense perfectly. It was specifically designed to operate in the shallower waters, allowing it amazing manuverability. But it is by no means not up to the challenge of combat, with 4 torpedo tubes and the silent signature, it is easily a match for larger, more expensive ships. One of its primary missions is also a minelayer, which allows you to effectively emplace minefields nearly anywhere, vital choke points and harbors in order to cripple your enemies shipping, or even your own ports in times of peril. This is, quite simply, one of the most cost effective deals out there.

Katze Class Brown Water Submarines: $250,000,000
Displacement: 1007 tons surfaced, 1600 tons submerged
Length: 200'
Beam: 20'3"
Draft: 14'
Speed: 12 knots surfaced, 18 knots submerged
Armament: 3"gun/.50machine gun, 4 bow torpedo tubes 18 21" torpedoes(533 mm) and 4 stern minelayers, 12 mines standard load-out, more mines can be added in place of torpedos or vice versa at a 1mine-2torp ratio.
Complement: 40
Operating Depth: 700 feet Maximum: 820
Cruising Range: 5,000 miles surfaced at 10 knots.
Submerged Endurance: 7 days at 5 knots.
Fuel Capacity: 25,000 gallons.
Patrol Endurance: 40 days.
Diesel Hydrogen Hybrid AIP engines, surfaced/electric motors, submerged
Propulsion: Diesel-electric reduction gear with 4 main generator engines,
1 aux. generator.
4 main motors.
2 126-cell main storage batteries.
Sonar: Tamir-5L active, Herkules passive array

---------------
Our first order has already been sent, Dimelda, the two Maos you ordered during the design phase are being sent over with prize crews as we speak.

OOC: Alright, all technologies used are modern tech, so if ya think it's godmoding take it up with the RL nations that are producing them.
Credonia
01-11-2003, 19:47
Credonia would like to purchase 8 Mao Advanced Tactical Class Submarines

*Total of $2 BILLION wired on confirmation*
Talkos
01-11-2003, 19:51
Credonia, purchase confirmed. We will either send them over with prize crews or you can send your own crews to take them back to your ports.
Credonia
01-11-2003, 19:56
due to our current military situation, it would be best if we sent in our own crews to escort them back, we therefore are mobilizing and moving out the following units to escort our units from your country safly back to our country:

1 Freedom Class Aircraft Carrier
1 Sea Shadow
2 SSN Los Angeles Class Nuclear Submarines w/nuclear payloads)

Please do not be alarmed at the escort force that we are sending out as this is only for a defensive mannor as we have agressors 500 nm off of our coasts conducting war games and we are at a heightened state of alwer (DEFCON 2 to be exact). Our units are now on the move and shall arrive soon with crews to pull the subs out.
Talkos
01-11-2003, 23:17
Alright Credonia, we will alert our patrols to keep an eye out for them. We can fully understand your precautions, though do understand that those ships will be watched and targeted by our own defense forces until they leave our waters. Thank you for your business.
Talkos
02-11-2003, 02:10
Just a little BUMP for the evening crowds.
02-11-2003, 02:15
I would like a thorough explanation of this "AIP" system, especially as you seem to claim that you can burn diesel fuel without needing additional oxygen.

Second, I would like an explanation of how you made a diesel engine quite, they are known for two things primarily: 1: torque 2: noise.

Perhaps if you can back your claims up, I'd be interested in purchasing several.
Super American VX Man
02-11-2003, 02:16
We would like to purchase four Maos and six Kaztes, for a total of 1,900,000,000 USD. Money will be wired upon order confirmation.

http://www.angelfire.com/ns2/toxicvalley/images/ramel.gif
-General Irving Ramel
Minister of Law and Defense
02-11-2003, 02:18
Continental Democracy would like to buy 20 Mao Advanced Tactical Class Submarines total of 30,000,000.00 wired upon confirmation
Talkos
02-11-2003, 02:38
Super American, your order is confirmed, we will either send them over with prize crews or you can send your own crews to take them back to your ports.

Continental democracy....either you meant the Katze class subs which means you misplaced your decimal, or your calculations are off, 20 Maos would mean 5billion in funds.
02-11-2003, 02:41
im sorry, i did mean mao, and my calc is off i guess.... if i buy 5 can i get the 6th one free?
Talkos
02-11-2003, 02:55
I would like a thorough explanation of this "AIP" system, especially as you seem to claim that you can burn diesel fuel without needing additional oxygen.

Second, I would like an explanation of how you made a diesel engine quite, they are known for two things primarily: 1: torque 2: noise.

Perhaps if you can back your claims up, I'd be interested in purchasing several.


The diesel hybrid engine and the AIP systems are relatively new systems, but have already been installed on several other modern submarines from nations such as Germany, Holland, and Sweden. Also known as anaerobic diesel engines

"Oxygen needed for burning the diesel fuel is stored inside the "toroidal" (coiled-pipe) hull. Exhaust gases are also stored in the submarine, since pumping them into the sea would allow detection by an enemy."

They recycle the exhaust, chemically remove all the pollutants stuff, and reinject it into the engine with a small, fresh supply bleeding in from storage tanks. The propulsion units that burn liquid oxygen and diesel fuel to generate electricity for either propulsion or charging batteries within a conventional diesel-electric plant.

You will notice that these subs, along with all except the earliest diesel submarines are also equipped with battery power, these along with the AIP have enough power to operate the submarine for the three of submerged endurance at cruising speed. Once they surface they can get the brute force energy boost from the conventional diesels. While on AIP or battery the submarines are quite silent. They use the same principals most notoriously seen in the Russian Kilos, the "Black Holes of the Sea."

Does that satisfy your questions, or would you like further summarization or links?
Super American VX Man
02-11-2003, 02:59
Super American, your order is confirmed, we will either send them over with prize crews or you can send your own crews to take them back to your ports.

The funds have been wired. We will get the subs ourselves. Thanks anyway for the offer.

http://www.angelfire.com/ns2/toxicvalley/images/ramel.gif
-General Irving Ramel
Minister of Law and Defense
Talkos
02-11-2003, 03:01
im sorry, i did mean mao, and my calc is off i guess.... if i buy 5 can i get the 6th one free?

Thats alright... Tell you what, as a developing nation we'll throw in a Katze class brownwater patrol sub. Hmmm, we've checked your accounts and you can afford the transaction, though it will eat up about 70-80% of your nation's annual military budget. If you are sure, we will either send them over with prize crews or you can send your crews to take them back to your ports. Thank you for your business.
Talkos
02-11-2003, 03:03
Super American, your order is confirmed, we will either send them over with prize crews or you can send your own crews to take them back to your ports.

The funds have been wired. We will get the subs ourselves. Thanks anyway for the offer.

Minister of Law and Defense

Alright, we will expect the arrival of your crews. Thank you for your business.
02-11-2003, 03:50
From the High Council of Dimelda, the Honorable Eliam J. R. Leinad...

To the Talkosian Military Department,

Greetings and thanks! It has been a pleasure supporting the furtherance of naval development and the addition of two powerful defensive forces to our nation's ever-expanding defense fleet.

Verahs Katarr! Pleasant Wishes!
Credonia
02-11-2003, 04:26
Alright Credonia, we will alert our patrols to keep an eye out for them. We can fully understand your precautions, though do understand that those ships will be watched and targeted by our own defense forces until they leave our waters. Thank you for your business.

Please mind that our forces have safely entered into international waters. These forces have split up due to pressing affairs at hand, some are going to help in a peacekeeping conflict while the others are still enroute to Credonia. We thank you for being cooperative and allowing our naval forces to deliver our crews. We shall be doing business with you again in the future.


Kaimoni .A. Sutton
President of the United States of Credonia
02-11-2003, 04:30
its ok, as my nation doesnt have a army yet (purchased) other then that, send your prized crew
Soviet Bloc
02-11-2003, 06:00
Soviet Bloc wishes to purchase four of these submarines.

$1 Billion USD will be sent on confirmation.
02-11-2003, 08:53
From the High Council of Dimelda, the Honorable Lord Eliam J. R. Leinad...

To the Talkosian Military Department...

Greetings once again, my friend! It has come to my attention that in times such as these, a country of continental proportions needs an equally powerful defense fleet to patrol the coasts of her perimeter. Therefore, the High Council has empowered me to purchase an additional eight more Mao-class submarines. Two billion dollars will be wired immediately upon confirmation. Thanks is in order, to you and your fine military developers.

A pleasure doing business with you!

Dimelda ver Mordanno! Dimelda Forever!
02-11-2003, 14:19
I would like a thorough explanation of this "AIP" system, especially as you seem to claim that you can burn diesel fuel without needing additional oxygen.

Second, I would like an explanation of how you made a diesel engine quite, they are known for two things primarily: 1: torque 2: noise.

Perhaps if you can back your claims up, I'd be interested in purchasing several.


The diesel hybrid engine and the AIP systems are relatively new systems, but have already been installed on several other modern submarines from nations such as Germany, Holland, and Sweden. Also known as anaerobic diesel engines

"Oxygen needed for burning the diesel fuel is stored inside the "toroidal" (coiled-pipe) hull. Exhaust gases are also stored in the submarine, since pumping them into the sea would allow detection by an enemy."

They recycle the exhaust, chemically remove all the pollutants stuff, and reinject it into the engine with a small, fresh supply bleeding in from storage tanks. The propulsion units that burn liquid oxygen and diesel fuel to generate electricity for either propulsion or charging batteries within a conventional diesel-electric plant.

You will notice that these subs, along with all except the earliest diesel submarines are also equipped with battery power, these along with the AIP have enough power to operate the submarine for the three of submerged endurance at cruising speed. Once they surface they can get the brute force energy boost from the conventional diesels. While on AIP or battery the submarines are quite silent. They use the same principals most notoriously seen in the Russian Kilos, the "Black Holes of the Sea."

Does that satisfy your questions, or would you like further summarization or links?

No, that was quite adequate and I appreciate the thoroughness of your responce. :)


I'll take 5 of each. Funds wired upon confirmation and crews to be sent.
Talkos
02-11-2003, 14:49
Continental democracy, the ships are on their way. Thank you for your business.

Soviet Block, your order is confirmed. We will either send them with temporary crews or you can send your own troops to take them back to your home ports.

Dimelda, we have reviewed your finances and would like to warn you that this will eat up a substantial portion of your nation's annual defense budget..... If you are sure, we will send them over. Thank you for your business.


Steve is handsome, your order is confirmed, 5 Maos and 5 Katzes comes out to . We will expect the arrival of your crews. Thank you for your business.
03-11-2003, 03:39
Dimelda, we have reviewed your finances and would like to warn you that this will eat up a substantial portion of your nation's annual defense budget..... If you are sure, we will send them over. Thank you for your business.

From the High Council of Dimelda, the Honorable Lord Eliam J. R. Leinad...

Many thanks for your concern, Talkos, but we will manage it. This new navy being constructed is of utmost importance to our Homeland. We must be ready for any manner of threat, and the most likely is projected to approach from across the Great Horizon. Again, thank you for your products and your continued interest in Dimeldish affairs.

Dimelda ver Mordanno! Dimelda Forever!
03-11-2003, 03:42
32 Mao Advanced Tactical Class Submarines
$8 B will be wired on confirm
Please send to our main port with a crew
Soviet Bloc
03-11-2003, 03:43
We'll be sending crews of our own to bring them back to our ports.
Talkos
20-11-2003, 21:33
32 Mao Advanced Tactical Class Submarines
$8 B will be wired on confirm
Please send to our main port with a crew

Oh, so sorry we didn't notice this before, must have missed it. Order is confirmed if you still want them.
Talkos
24-12-2003, 18:38
Bump :wink: