NationStates Jolt Archive

OOC: All technologies used are modern tech, so if ya think it's godmoding take it up with the RL nations that are producing them.

Los Angeles Class Obsolete
Kilo Class Obsolete
Seawolf Class Obsolete
Ohio and Typhoon Class Overpriced and oversized

"The USS Seawolf cost about $2.1 billion, and the average cost of Los Angeles class subs was around $1 billion. The annual operating cost for any of these subs is approximately $21 million. The typical service life of a nuclear sub is about 30 years. Refueling and modernizing at the half-life point costs about $200 million. Near the end of the service life, another refueling and extensive overhaul for about $410 million will extend the life another 12 years, for a total service life of 42 years. This totals to about $3.6 billion in constant dollars over the lifetime of a Seawolf class sub."
-Briefing given by SSBN Captain Robert Grey to Talkosian Council

"The future of naval warfare is submarines, diesel submarines. The world no longer needs or wants the huge leviathans designed for cold war threats, because in today's world that's all they're good for, threats. Too expensive and valuable to risk in numbers, and too vulnerable to risk alone. The day of the carrier is gone, as even the complement on the largest carriers are outnumbered by the air forces of any nation important enough to risk one on. Welcome to the future."
-Presentation from Admiral Lorrenzo(ret.) to the Council

After the success of our Gato class boats we decided to embark upon a whole new generation of submarines. Our original Gato class boats were outdated and verging on obsolesence, their only redeeming fact was their price, at less than 1/10th of the price of a modern submarine, they quickly flew off the shelves. Our main goals in the redesign were:

1. To have the ship to ship capability equivalent of a SeaWolf or Virginia class nuclear submarine.
2. To cost 1/3 that of a Seawolf class nuclear submarine to produce.
3. To cost 1/4 of a modern nuclear submarine to maintain.
4. To be able to fulfill the standard multi-role missions of submarines.
-a. Covert Ops
-b. Supply and Transport
-c. Surface Bombardment through missiles or guns
-d. AA and AS capability
-e. Minelaying Capability
-f. Interdiction and blockade
-g. Patrol
-h. Provide Power Projection to the nation
5. Run quieter than modern nuclear submarines.
6. Use Air Independant Propulsion systems in order to give it a multiple week underwater operation limit.

Many designs were proposed, and several were developed into prototypes, those appoved became the Mao Advanced Tactical Class Submarines, and the Katze Class Brown Water Submarines, and we are glad to announce that the project was a success.
http://www.virginiabase.org/Imported%20Images/SSN774UnderConstruction.jpg
The Mao under construction

http://www.btinternet.com/~warship/Postwar/Submarines/upholders.JPG
Katze Class submarines heading out to sea for combat testing

A marvel of engineering, they are to go on sale as soon as combat trails are completed. Where they shall be put in mock battle against Seawolf, Virginia, Ohio, and Kilo class submarines. We expect to put them on sale for about $250,000,000 and $150,000,000 dollars respectively.

Design specs:
Mao Advanced Tactical Class Submarines:
Displacement: 1938 tons surfaced, 2600 tons submerged
Length: 320'
Beam: 28’
Draft: 17’
Speed: 18 knots surfaced, 25 knots submerged
Armament: 6”gun(retractable for submersion and automated)
4 bow and 2 stern torpedo tubes, 24 21" torpedoes(533 mm)
Can also be armed with same amount of Tomahawk Cruise Missiles or Harpoon Anti-Ship Missiles. Can also be armed with mines if situation warrants.
4 Vertical Launch Tubes, can carry 12 SAMs
Complement: 50
Operating Depth: 270 Meters
Maximum Depth: 300 Meters
Cruising Range: 12,000 miles surfaced at 10 knots.
Submerged Endurance: 18 Days at 7 knots.
Fuel Capacity: 74,400 gallons.
Patrol Endurance: 80 days.
Air Independent Diesel Hydrogen Hybrid engines
Propulsion: Diesel-electric reduction gear with 4 main generator engines,
1 aux. generator.
4 main motors
2 126-cell main storage batteries.
Combat Systems: Integrated sonar/weapons-control suite
AN/BPS-5 surface search radar, AN/BPS-15 A/16 navigation and fire control radar, TB-16D passive towed sonar arrays, TB-23 passive "thin line" towed array, AN/BQG-5D wide aperture flank array, AN/BQQ-5A/E low frequency spherical sonar array, MIDAS Mine and Ice Detection Avoidance System, SADS-TG active detection sonar

Katze Class Brown Water Submarines:
Displacement: 1007 tons surfaced, 1600 tons submerged
Length: 200'
Beam: 20'3"
Draft: 14'
Speed: 12 knots surfaced, 18 knots submerged
Armament: 3"gun/.50machine gun, 4 bow torpedo tubes 32 21" torpedoes(533 mm) and 4 stern minelayers, 12 mines standard load-out, more mines can be added in place of torpedos or vice versa at a 1mine-2torp ratio.
Complement: 40
Operating Depth: 700 feet Maximum: 820
Cruising Range: 5,000 miles surfaced at 10 knots.
Submerged Endurance: 7 days at 5 knots.
Fuel Capacity: 25,000 gallons.
Patrol Endurance: 40 days.
Diesel Hydrogen Hybrid AIP engines, surfaced/electric motors, submerged
Propulsion: Diesel-electric reduction gear with 4 main generator engines,
1 aux. generator.
4 main motors.
2 126-cell main storage batteries.
Sonar: Tamir-5L active, Herkules passive array

Comments welcome. They are not for sale yet, but if you ask we can inform you when we open the storefront.

The price is a bit low.

meh, trebble to quadruple the prices

Consider the Talexian Empire very interested, however the max. depth on the Mao Class displeases me.

meh, trebble to quadruple the prices.

Bah! Finnish AIP diesels are being sold for about $100,000,000. French diesels go for as low as $233million, and German ones for $150 million. And Russia's been selling it's Kilo's to China for $250 million per. The whole idea of diesels is that they undercut the prices. :wink:

And as for the diving depth...well, that's deeper than the Russian Kilo's or the English Upholders can go. And is about equal to how deep the Swedish build Austrailian Collins' or French Agostas can go. <shrugs> It's about as good as you can get from a modern diesel. The one sub that can really outdive them is the Seawolf...of course the Seawolf costs about 4x more.

Bump

From the High Council of Dimelda, the Honorable Lord Eliam J. R. Maile...

In order to continue the furtherance of our Republic's defense, the Naval Department of the Dimeldish Council has proposed a defense fleet as an inexcusable choice for National spending. Therefore, in order to fulfill this directive and retain the serenity and safety of the Fatherland, I am authorized to inform you that, should current pricing on the Mao-class Adv.Tac. Submarine remain constant at 250,000,000, we shall purchase the aforementioned military unit in twain, and spend 500,000,000 on a pair of Mao-class vessels. When these marvels of underwater expertise are available, please contact our government with the appropriate information

Dimelda ver Mordanno! Dimelda Forever!

The Mao class looks good...too good. :|
OOC (I'd never admit this IC): The Mao is better than my subs in some ways. :o (The Mao has more torpedoes, a gun, VLS tubes, and greater endurance.)
Are some of those stats from nuclear subs (the Mao looks too good for a diesel in some ways, although I suppose if the US made a diesel it sure wouldn't look like those from the rest of the world)? When working on the stats for my subs, I only looked at diesels.

Dimelda, thank you for your business. Although we have not opened the ships up yet for public auction(we only have our half dozen prototypes at the moment), we will ensure that you get the first batch when we open the storefront threads. Which should be within a day or so, we will either send them over with prize crews to your ports, or you can send your own crews to take them back.


The Mao class looks good...too good. :|
OOC (I'd never admit this IC): The Mao is better than my subs in some ways. :o (The Mao has more torpedoes, a gun, VLS tubes, and greater endurance.)
Are some of those stats from nuclear subs (the Mao looks too good for a diesel in some ways, although I suppose if the US made a diesel it sure wouldn't look like those from the rest of the world)? When working on the stats for my subs, I only looked at diesels.

OOC: As for the stats the only thing I used from nuclear subs were some select sonar systems(used sonar from third world subs on the Katze), dropped all the ice detection systems and other such. As for the rest, I started from a GATO class US sub as a base and then used the Finnish Collins class subs and the new German AIP subs as examples for the upgrade, and given that the basic hull was a bit larger than those I included small SAM VLS tubes, the VLS tubes can't handle cruise missiles or ballistic missiles, but since Tomahawks are compatible with the standard tubes <shrugs>. If you want either the link to the sites I pulled the info off of, or the top secret overview of potential weaknesses , then say so and I'll give you a TG. The only thing not mounted on a current sub is the 6inch gun, since it's redundant for sub-to-sub warfare, but they're planning to bring a deck gun back to deal with the new threats(aka, cheap rubber dinghys filled with explosives, where a torpedo would be a waste :wink: ), and it's been a feature of the GATO line of subs shouldn't take too much work to incorporate with current electronics.

There are rumors of research related to upgrades to Nianacio's fleet of submarines in response to the...no, shut up Mr. Reporter, of course they aren't better than ours...surprisingly modern submarines to be built by Talkos.
If you want either the link to the sites I pulled the info off ofOOC: First I'll try to find my own resources. I might TG you later if I find my Google skills aren't good enough.
or the top secret overview of potential weaknesses , then say so and I'll give you a TG.Ooooh...I assume that information would be purely OOC?
they're planning to bring a deck gun back to deal with the new threats(aka, cheap rubber dinghys filled with explosives, where a torpedo would be a waste :wink: )Interesting, I haven't heard anything of this...and I couldn't find any mention of it with a quick Google search.

The Dominion of Talkos has taken pride on its submarine lines. The previous GATO class selling over 200 units before being taken off the market, and of course it would do its best to continue to live up to such a successful and profitable line of ships.

they're planning to bring a deck gun back to deal with the new threats(aka, cheap rubber dinghys filled with explosives, where a torpedo would be a waste :wink: )Interesting, I haven't heard anything of this...and I couldn't find any mention of it with a quick Google search.

OOC: Well, it probably won't be back until the old guard end their policy of an expensive, and IMO wasteful, pure nuclear submarine force. Think it's mostly in those long PDF files of reports to the accountants or whoever. Though overseas I believe that some Swedish subs are mounting deck guns(not counting the old WWII era leftovers that is), and the new Scandanavian Viking class might mount a small missile launcher that would do about the same thing. Ahhh well, good luck with your search.