NationStates Jolt Archive

After years of research in artificial Diamond manufacture, Attikish Weltraum beleives they have come up with a cheap and sustainable method of creating Diamond plates measuring 48"x48"x2". The density of this plating is 3.52g/cm^3, whereas steel is around 8. The factory has NOT begun mass-manufacture yet.

:shock: Expensive and heavy

Two inches of diamond?! :shock: that's outragously expensive! Unless you came up with a way to make artificail diamonds with the same general properties as real diamond, that would be pretty much impossible to do. :roll:

:shock: Expensive and heavy
Actually, it would be quite light for armor.

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http://www.weekendlazyness.com/img/battlesig.jpg (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1849269)

The density of this plating is 3.52g/cm^3, whereas steel is around 8. The factory has NOT begun mass-manufacture yet.

Diamond is lighter than steel. FAR lighter. Diamond is only 3 times as dense as water, whereas steel is 8 times as dense.

Also, artificial diamonds with properties PURER then real diamonds (ie, pure carbon), have been manufactured. THere are several methods:

High Pressure - You take charcoal, put it in a containment thing, and put it in a machine that exerts huge pressures upon it. It is good for making gem-quality diamonds rather cheaply.

Carbon Dusting - You take a 'seed' peice of diamond, and spray carbon atoms onto it in a vacuum. Over time, it builds up.

Both have been done in RL, and we use the carbon dusting method.


BTW, in RL, diamonds are expensive because of the De Beers monopoly. They have warehouses full of diamonds, that, if released, would lower the price to lower than that of artificial diamonds.

No they already have ways to make artificial diamonds. Problem is they always end up as black diamonds.

True the UNSC already has begun to replicate diamonds.

OOC: Diamonds are the stongest natural substance. Another form of carbon, buckminsterfullerene, is the stongest substance. It was only discovered in the 90's.

Unfortunately, Bucky Balls can not be made into plate, as they are, as the name implies, miniature balls.

Yeah, but there is no way to replicate those on a mass scale like there is for diamonds.

I can avguely remeber a tomorrow's world program where they were making airtifcial diamonds using a laser system, no idea how on earth that worked.

OOC: Currently there is no way to replicate them on a mass scale. What says that a way will not be found eventually (As we have IC) ?

As for the the claim that they cannot be made into plates, technically are all molecules not balls? And if they cannot, can they not be packaged into plates of other materials?


We use buckminterfullerene extensively IC.

Look at the chemical composition. Carbon has 4 valence electrons. In bucky balls, each carbon atom links to 4 other atoms. To link them together, you would need to break some bonds, which would break the ball, and make it weak.

Crook: They are using the lasers to superheat the carbon.

May i ask when this is to be put in production.

OOC:
I read somewhere that siberia has a potential for 150 large diamond mines... so diamonds are possible to get.

Once we are able to mass produce it. We need to finish constructing the factory. Plus, to manufacture one plate will take 1 hour. Thats 24 plates a day.

Can you make this avalible to members of the Attican Penninsula first?

How much will you be selling them for?

OOC: Okay, they can't be made into plates. I'll give you that. But why can't you just put a bunch inside a hollow plate of some other material?

Feline, Bucky Balls also are used as high performance lubricants. You can answer the question yourself now also :)

Kahta. Definately. Secret IC to Kahta: May the Attican Kaiser, with blessings from the Reichstag, build shipyards in Kahta?

Unfortunately, Bucky Balls can not be made into plate, as they are, as the name implies, miniature balls. However, buckyballs have been elongated into something "carbon nanotubes" which are effectively the same thing just slightly weaker (still amazingly stronger than anything else except buckyballs) but they are cylindrical. We are currently working towards creating these into armor.

OOC: So? I don't get how you can't pre-assemble a thin, hollow container, then "pour" them in, and then weld on a top to the container.

a projectile would just go right thru the lubricant :)

Also, you cannot bind nanotubes either.

Nanotubes... how could I forget? We use those as well...

Actually, the US Army is looking into useing nanotubes as armor around 2025. See the July 2000 issue of Popular Science, in its cover article.

Anyway, why not just freeze the buckminsterfullerene solution so it becomes a solid, and maintain that temperature?

Nanotubes are very hard to make.

Also, it IS a solid already. The best lubricants are solid powders. Bucky Balls, in large quantities, are powders.

Secret IC to Attica: Yes you may, there are some caves that could serve the purpose quite well if they were expanded.

Very hard to make, currently. In the future (We play tech from approximately 2003 to 2050.) a method to cheaply manufacture nanotubes is likely to be found. We have found one IC.

And possibly, if you suspend the buckminsterfullerene very densely in water, and freeze the water, you might be able to make armor.

Perhaps you could assist me in researching liquid nitrogen armor on ships, perhaps we could meld the two technologies together.

Regards,
Kahta

Actually the best idea would probably be to fuse bucky balls and diamonds together.

"Hey, why aren't we doing that?"
"I'll get on it sir."

OOC: Wouldn't the diamonds shatter as soon as they were hit? Diamonds have have almost no malleabilty.

The problem with LN2 is that it wouldnt freeze water fast enough. It would be a waste of money.


United - How would you do that? There is no way! It's a chemical problem - bucky balls and nanotubes have no available valence electrons, and making one would destroy its structure.

Water - it isnt designed to be the ONLY armor... steel is still necessary.

Then how can you explain the US Army planning to use them as armor around 2025?

Actually we play in the setting of 3010 where humans are pretty much capable of anything.

Back on topic, that is true, but what if your were to use some sort of chemical bond between the two?

Actually the US Marine corp is scheduled to use them first.

(Army sucks Marines are better :P )

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A CHEMICAL BOND. HAVENT YOU READ WHAT I TYPED? A chemical bond would indicate some type of ionic bond between the two carbons. Neither have valence electrons!

Oh... didn't know that... although the marines are better.

Just to point out that water is already "rumored" to be used in certain modern armor schemes, mainly as a filler for armor spacings, it acts to absorb soem of the impact energy.

No, not using a natural chemical bond but some sort of artificial way of combining the two. You are right in that there is no natural way of combining the two materials together but some sort of electrical current or other artificial way.

Do you have a basic understanding of chemistry?

Not really, i'm taking high school chemistry/biology.
I'm just going by what my books says.

The answer is no.

OOC: Oops, your right. That reaction would probably result in an explosion. My bad, thanks for correcting me. BTW I'm relatively new to chemistry, I'm taking it in my freshman year.

It is true (after looking up the exact chemical specs on buckminsterfullerene) that it cannot be bonded in the non-carbon nanotube form using modern means.

However, he is saying he plays full-blown futuretech, so some things that would defy the laws of physics as we understand them today probaly will be able to be done in the year 3010.

So, scientifically Attican Empire is correct. RP-ly, UNSC is correct.

A plate of diamond armor has been shipped to Attikish Moterwerke for testing against steel and Ti/C armors.

4 manufacturing lines have been completed, and production has begun. Each line can manufacture 1 plate every hour, which, with 4, means, 96 plates a day. One NS year = 35040 plates.

I haven't read all the replies.

While diamonds are the world's hardest natural substance that doesn't make them ideal for armor. They are hard, but brittle. If you were to put one on an anvil and smash it will a hammer it would shatter into a thousand pieces.

I imagine a bullet would have a similar effect, sorry your armor is useless.

Did I say it was going to be used alone? I am quite aware of the lack of malleability of Diamonds and the fact they are easy to shatter.

OOC: Oh, Kids, this is why you should read the thread before posting.

As expexted, a round from a G-36 shattered the diamond plate. Receiving a new shipment from the diamond plate factory, they plan on creating sandwich armors using it in hopes to find something lighter and stronger than conventional armor.

Attican Empire, we suggest that you put a filler between the plates of diamond armor. the absorbtion should make up for part of it.

What kind of filler? Moterwerke plans on several designs, including:

An initial steel layer, to absorb the main impact, the diamond layer, and the rear steel layer.

A diamond layer, called the 'vaporization' layer, and then a steel layer

among others.

As the scientists tested the Vaporization layer, IE, main coat is a Diamond plate with Steel behind it, it took bullets quite well, however, a tank shell ripped thru it easily.

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A CHEMICAL BOND. HAVENT YOU READ WHAT I TYPED? A chemical bond would indicate some type of ionic bond between the two carbons. Neither have valence electrons!

There are covalent bonds where instead of one atom giving up electrons and the other taking them, the atoms share electrons (aww, how friendly :D ). I'm not sure if it will work on buckyballs though.

With 0 available valence electrons, a covalent bond wouldn't work well. Neither of the 'compounds' have ions, nor is there anything to make them want to share electrons. Forcing them to share would likely result in a mess, considering carbon atoms would most likely bind to any other carbon atom, and whatever you used would split other bonds as well. It would suck.


The Double pancake, which was: STEEL - DIAMOND - STEEL exhibited similar characteristics to the Vaporization Layer, and could contain small tank shells. Large ones (100mm+) easily ripped thru. Slow-motion cameras noted that without support behind the supporting steel, the Steel behind the diamond bent out of shape, giving way to a shattering of the diamond layer.

By adding a layer of diamond before the supportive steel, they were able to give it enough structural strength to take a 120mm shell without being destroyed. navan shells are another deal altogether.

Try replacing one of the steel layers with titanium or Chobham armor or something.

OOC:
I'd go for a Vanadium-Titanium-Aluminum C alloy. Heat resistant (unaffected up to 800 degrees Celsius, I believe, though it really depends on the ratio), extremely lightweight and durable. Although, for shock, I don't know. I haven't seen much alloys that can reduce it. Let me go look up some.

I wouldnt recommend adding Depleted Uranium, however. The added weight would slow it dramatically, and it is just impractical. I also dont see the point in installing diamond if it just raises the expense, and doesnt stop 100mm+ shells, which would be pointless. You may as well make it out of waterproof carboard :)

FC, you are aware in RL Diamonds are only expensive because of the De Beers cartel?

And artifial diamonds are quite cheap, and if sandwiched with alloys, can be quite strong.