NationStates Jolt Archive

OOC: I read an article somewhere about Plastic Muscles... shape-shifting polymers that can contract like muscles when electrified. Japan has several kids toys utilizing this technology and they are currently working on robots. I am wondering if it would be possible to use this to make some sort of small mecha to be used as a mount for Cavalry-type units. It would be a simple design, maybe a Gasoline or a diesel generator, bipedal, with two GAU-8 Gatling Guns on arms. I'm thinking reverse-jointed legs for speed and stability... something like a Magitek from FFVI.

Ideas?

If I could get this to work, i could use this pic I've wanted to use ever since I released the Body Armor from FFVI LOL

http://www.bateshome.com/jordan/magi.jpg
hehehehe

So do you guys think it's possible to create a Modern Tech Mechanical Cavalry type thing?

OOC: I dont know, plastic might not take the pressure of several tons of armour. Could you think of any other polymer strong enough to do it?

Then again if it's small then it can probably use lightweight composite armour, not anything heavier than that.

OOC: I dont know, plastic might not take the pressure of several tons of armour. Could you think of any other polymer strong enough to do it?

Then again if it's small then it can probably use lightweight composite armour, not anything heavier than that.The unit would be no more than 2 tons at the very most, and the heaviest force any 1 muscle might lift would be about 50 pounds... including leverage and multiple-muscle system factors... I think it could handle it. balance would be kind of hard, and would take a while to research, but I don't think it will be too much of a problem.

Armor would be Layered plates of cast LiquidMetal and possibly Kevlar to reduce the rick of small arms damage to internal systems.

OOC:
Yes, we have armor weight down, what about weapons payload?

OOC:
Yes, we have armor weight down, what about weapons payload?How much does a GAU-8 by itself weigh? (The gun from an A-10)

OK, I looked it up... an A-10's GAU-8 weighs almost 2 tons with full ammo (about 2000 ammo)

If I change it to 1 Gun, and scrap a lot of the excess airborne equipment, we should be fine... the Mecha would weigh a total of maybe 3, possibly 4 tons. That's still very do-able.

OOC: The "somewhere" might be SciAm? I'm going to bring them out for medical applications in a short bit.

OOC: The "somewhere" might be SciAm? I'm going to bring them out for medical applications in a short bit.That's what it was... The cover drew me to read the article, but i put the magazine down when I realized it was nothing more than an atheist propoganda magazine lol I dunno why... it was an interesting article though... what do you think, is this idea possible?

OOC: The "somewhere" might be SciAm? I'm going to bring them out for medical applications in a short bit.That's what it was... The cover drew me to read the article, but i put the magazine down when I realized it was nothing more than an atheist propoganda magazine lol I dunno why... it was an interesting article though... what do you think, is this idea possible?

OOC: VERY possible (in terms of using the plastic-based 'muscles').

Protection, as always with 'mechs, will be an issue. As for the weight issues, well, I don't know.

The article has a lot of good points (you probably missed another article in there, which means that I can use it..bwahahaha).

I'll advise you on anything you need to know from that article; I have it on hand.

OOC:
Yes, we have armor weight down, what about weapons payload?How much does a GAU-8 by itself weigh? (The gun from an A-10)
I'd choose something smaller if I were you. The GAU-8 firing generates as much power as one of the A-10s engines. The thing gets it's speed cut in half when it fires. The recoil would rip off the things "arm" or knock it over.

OOC:
Yes I have to agree with that one, the GAU-8 has an ungodly recoil. But if you had a good stabilization system, say the T-90 MBT's 2E42-4 Zhasmin, it would work.

Hmm... I didn't think of that :) OK, well maybe I can just put two .50 cal Artilleries on it, and maybe some built in stinger launchers or something.
Oh, and WA, are you talking about the plastics that generste electricity when they compress? :P Those seem pretty weak... generates about a watt every step you take lol

bump

Actually, you could probably get a M-242 Bushmaster 25mm Auto mounted there.

what about hydraulics thats what I did with my M.E.S.A units (think sorta like the robots from reboot)

*ADDED* jsut a thought but maybe mix the two migth be able to provide more strength and durability to this mecha you want.

Prototype Thread (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=78640)

Zen: Yes, but Hydraulics require a lot of matinance and pumps and systems and would be about 100 times as complicated and 20 times as heavy as polymers. I did consider this. don't want to create some giant Mecha, because a smaller one is much easier to make/control/maintain/handle.

mines not to overly large either not maybe about 10 feet (8 feet when crouching) at best guess and yes your right it would weight alot more and would be slowly and require more maintence but is has it's upsides, like the fact it has no preset weapon modules you just grab a large gun (or small) attach it to the forearm with bolts and such add the firing mechanism that allows the triger on the gun to be pulled and your off so it has a large advance in a constantly changing battlefield.

anyways goodluck wiht your mecha maybe some day we'll get to see whos is better

mines not to overly large either not maybe about 10 feet (8 feet when crouching) at best guess and yes your right it would weight alot more and would be slowly and require more maintence but is has it's upsides, like the fact it has no preset weapon modules you just grab a large gun (or small) attach it to the forearm with bolts and such add the firing mechanism that allows the triger on the gun to be pulled and your off so it has a large advance in a constantly changing battlefield.

anyways goodluck wiht your mecha maybe some day we'll get to see whos is better

Why thank you, as long as they are relatively modern tech.

yes they are modern tech. but I'm pretty sure you'd kick it's can giving how fast you can move with those.

here's a link to mine
http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=75323&start=20

OOC:
I was thinking more of manipulator arms. If the plastic can simulate human muscles, then why not use human hands? Human-like hands are more versatile in the sense that it can take, grip and shoot any firearm without attaching anything.

They can simulate a human hand actually... we just didn't see it necessary for this model. We might add that feature later.

OOC: Ray, the plastics can both use energy to create motion and motion to create energy (the process works both ways). As far as that goes, the 1 watt/step is for a ~200lb load (soldier + pack) and has to fit into the heel of the boot. With a unit like this, several Watts of energy might be generated (larger usable surface area and greater mass).

OOC: Ray, the plastics can both use energy to create motion and motion to create energy (the process works both ways). As far as that goes, the 1 watt/step is for a ~200lb load (soldier + pack) and has to fit into the heel of the boot. With a unit like this, several Watts of energy might be generated (larger usable surface area and greater mass).lol yeah, but what sort of system would it power? I'd need a few kilowatts at least. Any Idea how fast the "muscles" can contract?

If you're building a body-hugging sort of suit, what about force application? If the pilot moves his arm, how does he control the amount of force that the machines apply? Having the suit respond to all orders with maximum-throttle get-to-destination-position-no-matter-what behavior would result in a lot of broken equipment and a damaged suit very quickly, as well as impairing general mobility. In a related issue, how would the suit provide opposed force feedback (i.e. the soldier would be able to feel to what extent his motion is being resisted by outside forces)?

Why not have it just amplify his movements by a set factor? That way when he's rough, it'll be Über-rough, and when he's gentle, it'll be... well, slightly less rough...

It's a relatively Simple Control interface... weapons are controlled by the VisorScreen system (helmet controls), arms and upper body controlled by 2 joysticks, and leg speed is controlled by 2 Sliding foot pedals that control speed and direction.

How about a pressure throttle control thingy? The more the soldier pushes against the pads on the inside of the arm tunnel, the more they are compressed, and the more power is applied to the muscle system.

How about a pressure throttle control thingy? The more the soldier pushes against the pads on the inside of the arm tunnel, the more they are compressed, and the more power is applied to the muscle system.That sounds good. it could be in conjunction with the foot pedals... like shifting gears... you want full control at low speeds, medium speeds, and high speeds as well... so you select maximum power output via the "throttle" control. Great idea!

2 Rival Team Designs of these mecha:

The RM-18 "Gabriel":
http://www.bateshome.com/jordan/magitek18.gif

And the RM-19 "Ezekiel"
http://www.bateshome.com/jordan/magi.jpg

Both of these prototypes are nearly finalized.

Oooh. Aahhhh. That's excellent.

Just a small, fast, powerful, unenclosed Power suit

OOC: Ray, the plastics can both use energy to create motion and motion to create energy (the process works both ways). As far as that goes, the 1 watt/step is for a ~200lb load (soldier + pack) and has to fit into the heel of the boot. With a unit like this, several Watts of energy might be generated (larger usable surface area and greater mass).lol yeah, but what sort of system would it power? I'd need a few kilowatts at least. Any Idea how fast the "muscles" can contract?

The energy could be used to power peripheral systems or to run a back-up battery source (ie, which might allow the unit to be used as a fire-platform even when the main engine is damaged/destroyed and/or when the legs are non-functional).

As for armaments, I might suggest that you include/add some sort of automatic, rapid-fire grenade launcher (ie, the Mk. 19 or one that I'm about to bring out) to increase the area/anti-personnel ability of the unit (also works well against buildings and fortifications).

The article reports that a small-scale model has achieved pressures of 30 Newtons (6.6lbs of force), cyclic rates of up to 50Hz, and a linear displacement (stroke distance) of 2cm (all, apparently for a unit about 7-9cm long). You can probably expect a much greater strength in yours (due to larger size, increased research, and integrated systems.

As a note, I'd say that low-pressure piston pumps might be desired for an "emergency power failure" situation (to 'catch' the unit's weight)...since the plastic motor/springs might not be able to maintain the unit if there is a power failure (although it is supposed to maintain its form, it is always nice to have a fail-safe system).

LOL on the cover of the SciAm magazine they have one of those bigger "muscles" as a Bicep musle curling 50 lbs lol that's maybe 110 lbs of raw force at least. Imagine a complex system of these in parallel and in series.

As for armaments, it already has 2 .50 cal Automatic Rifles, and i might add in an arm shield, a flamethrower, and a grenade Launcher.

And for backups... the Battery is a good idea, but pneumatics would definately not be a backup :) I'd rather hook a bicycle generator up to it than use pneumatics lol There will be redundancies on all the "muscles... they won't fail, just don't get hit by an EMP :) *shivers*

Do you guys have any more suggestions before I finalize this? i already have people mass ordering these :)

LOL on the cover of the SciAm magazine they have one of those bigger "muscles" as a Bicep musle curling 50 lbs lol that's maybe 110 lbs of raw force at least. Imagine a complex system of these in parallel and in series.
Mine has a machine lifting a dumbell marked "10lb" (though it might be as much as 50lb if the parts were detachable and if the bar were also 10lbs.

That being said, I'm sure that an array could easily lift the expected loads (though 60mph might be a bit much to ask of it in running).

Also, the main person (Bar-Cohen) mentions that there is already an artificial arm in the works that could reasonably challenge a human in arm-wrestling (and is so very strong). Sounds like enough strength to me.


As for armaments, it already has 2 .50 cal Automatic Rifles, and i might add in an arm shield, a flamethrower, and a grenade Launcher.

Sounds good.


And for backups... the Battery is a good idea, but pneumatics would definately not be a backup :) I'd rather hook a bicycle generator up to it than use pneumatics lol There will be redundancies on all the "muscles... they won't fail, just don't get hit by an EMP :) *shivers*

The low-pressure pneumatics would just be to hold the unit standing up if the other systems (ie, balance control) all fail. It's just enough pressure to keep it from falling apart without demanding extra resources (why I said "low-pressure"). It would just be a closed pressure-piston system to provide air resistance and to act as "shock absorbers" during movement.

If the electrical current fails, mechanical locks and pins immediately slide into place and lock it into a standing position, sound like a decent failsafe?

If the electrical current fails, mechanical locks and pins immediately slide into place and lock it into a standing position, sound like a decent failsafe?

Sounds fine...just make sure that the pins are strong enough to take a really heavy force (like a drop from 20 ft....).

If the electrical current fails, mechanical locks and pins immediately slide into place and lock it into a standing position, sound like a decent failsafe?

Sounds fine...just make sure that the pins are strong enough to take a really heavy force (like a drop from 20 ft....).LOL that would classify as an "Accident" :) an engine dying in mid-air... it's like Dukes of hazard on Robotechnology LOL

http://www.bateshome.com/jordan/rsig2.jpg (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=78939)

If the electrical current fails, mechanical locks and pins immediately slide into place and lock it into a standing position, sound like a decent failsafe?

Sounds fine...just make sure that the pins are strong enough to take a really heavy force (like a drop from 20 ft....).LOL that would classify as an "Accident" :) an engine dying in mid-air... it's like Dukes of hazard on Robotechnology LOL

If you get a big enough explosion...

The engine is most likely to fail underfire, after all, not on sunny days (:wink:).


Anyways, sounds like you're mostly done now!
(I was just going by the normal drop-shake-and-roll safety/failsafe system)

OOC: :) it's the first model... I'll improve later :)

My Storefront has them now:
http://www.bateshome.com/jordan/rsig2.jpg (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=78939)