NationStates Jolt Archive

Our scientist are now studying the future possiblies of Matter/
AntiMatter manufacturing we are now building a special asteroid
based research facility. This one will be similar in nature to AsterKor,
but differant in that it will be an extremely high security research
facility with labs, etc....
We estimate it will be finished in 2 NS yrs ( 2 RL days ) then we will
begin around the clock studies on this possible new power source.


( OCC : I have read in a Science Mag. that we can now manufacture
Matter/AntiMatter in what the game would consider the
Modern Era. I will look up the referance material so you
can't say I'm Godmodding.)

Indra Prime supports Kormanthor in the research of Matter/ Anti Matter Reactor Chambers. We can offer assistance to your research as we have developed a design for a MAMRA powerplant. We have been studying the applications of this technology and have found it to be very useful in the production of great amounts of energy and as a space saver.

(OOC: Reference to Science News, Popular Science, and Popular Mechanics, and CNI)

I still say our Plasma Energy owns this...
http://www2.freepichosting.com/Images/53887/1.jpg
Professor H. J. Washu, Cheif of R&D
Resi Corp.
Member of the Corporate Coalition
Member of the RGGA
Namekeeper of S.C.O.R.E.
Member of C.A.G.E.D.
Member of "the Alliance"
Discoverer of the "Corporate Islands (http://www.nationstates.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/page=display_region/region=corporate_islands)" region
Visit the Resi Corporation's Marketplace (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=67552)!

OOC: Plasma Energy and Antimatter Energy are two totally separate forms of power generation.Plasma is just a fancy name for superheated gases that provide heat for generators like steam generators. Antimatter Energy provides a huge burst of Electromagnetic Energy and Gamma Rays that is collected on certain materials and is directly converted to many different forms of energy.

OOC: Plasma Energy and Antimatter Energy are two totally separate forms of power generation.Plasma uses superheated gases to provide heat for steam generators. Antimatter Energy provides a huge burst of Electromagnetic Energy and Gamma Rays.((OOC: I know that, Washu's just being cocky because she single-handedly invented Plasma Energy.))

OOC: lol.

IC: It has taken us years to develop this technology and we have done it by pouring billions upon billions of credits into our research and development program. We have also taken magnetic research from other nations that have sold it to us and we have thus created a stable reactor.

We are glad to announce that AsterTHOR, our new Matter/Antimatter
Labratory is finished. It is housed in the interior of a second asteroid body & is now fully operational. We are also proud to announce that we have excepted Indra Primes help in developing this new technology.

We have tried antimatter. It was banned after an accident destroyed an entire city. We won't go near that sh*t.

We have tried antimatter. It was banned after an accident destroyed an entire city. We won't go near that sh*t.

Maybe we can offer you a solution for the MAMRA powerplant. We currently use the MAMRA powerplant to power our own type of Hyperspace window using a device we have come to call the Temporal Impellor. It is in our most advanced attack and defense craft in service today. Crimmond, we would be willing to share this technology with you for a price.

What kind of assistance do you need for the R&d of a new MAMRA? We can offer any assistance needed but we need to know ahead of time so we can identify what we need to send your way.

OOC:

We've been able to create anti-matter for a long time iRL, it's just hidiously expensive and takes far more energy to make than it yeilds.

For modern and near-future tech it might make a decent low-mass, high-potence energy storage medium for interplanetary spacecraft and the like, but it's simply no where near the point of being viable for actual energy production.

BTW, 2 kilos of matter(1kilo antimatter, the other matter), acording to E=MC^2, can get you about 45 megatons of energy(NOT a 45 megaton blast, as the energy would be released as high-energy radiation, and most likly without the massive fireball and associated thermal and atmospheric effects of a fission nuke). IIRC, creating a gram of antimatter was estimated to cost in the trillions(hense it's never been done), and would yeild 45 kilotons of energy; that's the same energy release you'd get from a small nuke, without all the containment and energy-harnesing hassels(belive it or not, it's not easy to get energy from gamma-rays ;) ), as a small nuke which would cost imensly less.

BTW, what kind of anti-matter will you be utalising?

As for energy, Kanuckistani spacecraft and powerplants utalise direct matter-energy conversion via Hawking Reactors which utalise 'pulsed articical micro-singularities'. Beat that!*

*(Well, we actually have beaten that, but that information is currently classifyed, even at an OOC level ;) )


Helpful Link(tm) regaurding antimatter: http://science.nasa.gov/newhome/headlines/prop12apr99_1.htm

Penguenia has also researched antimatter drives. Our large spacecraft are powered by massive Reverse Fusion Antimatter reactors, highly unstable, highly volitile. We would like to know if you have done any better.

http://www.hostmysig.com/data/raziel/engineer.jpg
Prifessor Romina Izabel
Cheif Engineer of Penguenian Military Systems
Holy Empire of Penguenia

OOC: The only problem of trying to figure out the yield of a nuclear reaction between Matter and Antimatter is that you cannot use the normal physics equations for it. Antimatter's reaction with normal matter cannot be determined by the simple equation E=MC^2. That equation relates normal energy with everyday mass and the speed of light with no restrictions. however, when dealing with antimatter the equation changes to allow for the instability that such a reaction would create with the anhiallation of matter which would then change the gravitational constant ever so slightly. As gravity is determined by mass and mass is determined by size and composition. When a piece of that is taken away (ie in an anhiallation reaction the gravitational forces have to change). Becuause of this fact and the theory of Relativity the Spped of Light is NOT a constant in this instance. The only things that can affect time is the speed of light and intense gravity (thus also the change of gravitational forces) You must conclude that in retrospect that changing the mass quantity in the Universe could actually change the speed of light.
Also the ability to create a gram of Antimatter has been in our grasp for quite a few years now. It does not cost in the amounts that you describe (in the trillions). Granted it IS expensive, but the reason he have not done anything in regards to futhering research in that form of powersource is b/c they have not developed a suitable containment system tha tcould withhold that amount of energy. Noted afterthought: Why would a high security project regarding a very advanced powersource release there most up to date information on the WWW? (to me that seems that it would be a chink in the armor of national security)

just a curious question, what is your degree in, Kanuckistan?

OOC: I was reffering to energy yeild, not explosive yeild, just expressing it in terms of 'tons of tnt' because, frankly, the numbers are alot easier to relate to.

I was also under the impression that energy had mass, otherwise the mass of the universe would be constantly shrinking from, if nothing else, the electron-proton annilation taking place during solar fusion.

If it doesn't, well, the mass involved in pretty damn small, so I doubt it would greatly effect universal constants unless you're dealing with multi-stellar masses.

Also, light doesn't travel at the 'speed of light', but rather just below it, because nothing can travel at Cee.


And I don't have a degree; what's yours in?


BTW My IC hardware utalises a degree of sci-fi; the blurb 'even at an ooc level' wasn't reffering to anything relating to RL, but merely the fact that I'm not about to spill all my secrets. :wink:

OOC: I was reffering to energy yeild, not explosive yeild, just expressing it in terms of 'tons of tnt' because, frankly, the numbers are alot easier to relate to.

I was also under the impression that energy had mass, otherwise the mass of the universe would be constantly shrinking from, if nothing else, the electron-proton annilation taking place during solar fusion.

If it doesn't, well, the mass involved in pretty damn small, so I doubt it would greatly effect universal constants unless you're dealing with multi-stellar masses.

Also, light doesn't travel at the 'speed of light', but rather just below it, because nothing can travel at Cee.

And I don't have a degree; what's yours in?

BTW My IC hardware utalises a degree of sci-fi; the blurb 'even at an ooc level' wasn't reffering to anything relating to RL, but merely the fact that I'm not about to spill all my secrets. :wink:


Energy has no mass; matter exists in a state that is either solely energy or solely with mass.

Electrons can't possibly annhiallate a proton. Mass is just way too different. Plus Solar Fusion is not an antimatter reaction, its just a normal fusion reaction. Photons (the light particle) travels both as a particle and as a wave. when you see light you see it as a wave.

You can have all the scifi stuff you want, thats cool. But what I refer to is in real life

My degree is in Engineering Physics/ Quantum physics. :wink: So in RL I know jsut a few things bout this kind of stuff.

it is imposible to manufacture antimatter and use it in weapons. it explodes if it comes in contact with matter!

actually that is incorrect. If there is a properly tuned dimagnetic field it is possible to contain the AM particles and with some finesse use them in an uncoltrolled reaction. AKA a bomb.

Oops, I ment electron-positron(aka anti-electron) reacton.

So, if energy has no mass, then the universe is loosing mass(unless energy is being converted into matter somewhere out there); odd that I've never heard it mentioned anywhere.

Don't supose you could explain relaticistic time-dialation, aparent mass-increase, and the universe's ~300'000 km/sec speed limit then? With energy having mass, and all motion being relative, it had made perfect sense; with energy not having mass, my little theory doesn't work.

If you want precise information regarding the differences between the different forms that matter can take and how they are both at once, then I would suggest oyu look up Schroedinger's Cat and Schroedingers experiments reqarding quantum theory.

The reason that most people believe that there is a universal "spped limit" as you would call it is because people believe that the speed of light (c) is the absolute fastest that anything can go, including light. However, experiments have been done within the past few months where scientists have actually been able to freeze light in a place and then "warm" it up again and the beam of light continues on its merry way. In a perfect vacuum, the speed of light (c) is 2.9x10^8 m/s or approx. 290,000 km/ sec. Now that is the relativistic speed of light if there are absolutely NO gravitational anomalies, no errant particles that could stand in the way and deflect the photons (which both do and do not have mass). However in the real world, there are countless stray particles even in space, which most people think of as just a void. This explains the phenomenon of how even a sharply tuned laser still expands from its original size and does not remain coherent for infinity. The speed of light affects most objects, but if...no....when scientists discover a way to breach the faster than light barrier more mysteries about the quantum universe will begin to fall away.

For example, in most people's eyes, Time is a straight forward "invention" and cannot ever be changed. What may come to a suprise to those people is that even with technology we have today, we have the ability to affect the passage of time, even though it is for an infintesimal amount, for the time being. If you are able to break the speed of light, according to the theory of relativity, time will almost stand still for the person inside the craft while tens if not hundreds of years will pass for those people on Earth. But ther is one flaw with that theory. It says that as you approach the speed of light it requires infinite power and infinite mass in order to achieve that goal. The flaw is that if you graph the spatial and temporal changes, it shows the velocity increases as a function of the craft's physical properties. However, if scientist are able to bypass 1.0000cand go directly from 0.9999c to 1.0001c, then the infinite power requirement is negated and the ability to achieve faster than light travel suddenly becomes plausible. (I could explain all this in complicated multidimensional terms, but I thought it best to explain it this way).

The Universe is always in a state of matter/energy conservation. Even if the matter and antimatter collide, that reaction produces enormous amounts of energy thus maintaining the matter/energy conversion cycle. In this case antimatter is also considered as matter becuase it hold similar properties as matter, with the sole exception of being inverted in every form and fashion.

Hurm; I knew most of, if not all of that, I belive.

I'm aware of time-dialation resulting from acceleration, tho I don't know why you'd have to break the C-barrier; simply aproaching it will have the described effect.

I'm also aware of the law of concervation of energy; my biggest question is, if energy doesn't have mass, why hasn't anything I've ever seen mentioned that the universe is loosing mass, as every anti-matter reaction(such as the electron-positron reaction in solar fusion) would reduce the universe's mass.

Whether or not matter/energy is conserved, if matter is constantly being converted into energy(and it is), and energy doesn't have mass, then either the universe is loosing mass or something is out there turning energy into matter at the same rate as as the rest of the universe is turning matter into energy, or energy does indeed have mass.

Probably the reason you haven't seen anything in any scientific studies is probably because no one has managed to weight the Universe to determine what its mass is. Hell, even the shape of the universe is still up to be determined. Mass of any object is determined by size and composition, which stands to reason that the universe can be determined by the same method. If it were losing mass, my question is what is it losing the mass to? If the mass is leaving the Universe, we would be getting into the multiverse complex which changes the entire probelm beyond anything you or I could possibly be able to understand. And without trying to seem like the impetulant scientist, A solar fusion reaction is just as it is described, a fusion reaction. In the sun is enough Hydrogen to burn for billions of years. The Sun uses up the hydrogen by fusing it together and generates enormous energy and heat. Thus when a sun gets old that is why it expands, because the sun has basically changed its chemical makeup to be predominately Helium and heavier gasses. There is NO antimatter reaction in the sun. If there was, there would be no possibility for the sun to last as long as it does.

Energy is being converted into mass all the time. Even here on Earth. When people eat, they first digest the food converting the mass that is the food into calories, or energy, and then when the energy is expended, it gets converted into mass yet again (though not back into its original form). With our limited knowledge of the universe there is no telling what is out there that could be converting energy to mass on an infinitely larger scale.

<snip>




In stars like the Sun the nuclear burning takes place through a three step process called the proton-proton or pp chain. In the first step two protons collide to produce deuterium, a positron, and a neutrino. In the second step a proton collides with the deuterium to produce a helium-3 nucleus and a gamma ray. In the third step two helium-3s collide to produce a normal helium-4 nucleus with the release of two protons.



pos·i·tron ( P ) Pronunciation Key (pz-trn)
n.
An elementary particle having the same mass and magnitude of charge as an electron but exhibiting a positive charge; a positive electron. Also called antielectron.



And that last paragraph is... just wrong. Solar energy is used to form chemical bonds and things like carbon chains, not create matter. Did you fail chemistry or something? o.O

OOC: While I probaly know more about quantum physics than the average person (I find it interesting, and have read a moderate amount about it), I would go with whatever the guy with the degree says :)

Our space stuff is based on Star Trek, but with different names in most cases. They are superficially similar, but usually with different operating principles.

Anyway, for a description of Star Trek antimatter reactors, visit http://ditl.org/scitech/datwarp.htm (And no, its not my site.) And remember, Trek calls its M/AM reactors the "warp core."

The page describes warp drive in detail, but it goes over the antimatter reactors. Ours work the same way, except no dilithium crystals. We have to use magnetic fields in the chamber, because frankly, a special type of matter just not reacting with matter is scientific s*it.


IC:
For us, Matter/Antimatter reactors are a everyday occurance. Even our FTL shuttles have them. They are nescesarry for our unique form of FTL drive. We also use them in weaponry in our antimatter torpedos. The only danger is if the reaction chamber is breached by weapons fire or if the magnetic fields shut down. Using permant magnets, and not electromagnets, wherever possible, saves energy, and adds safety. However, if these are broken during battle conditions, you won't have time to get to the escape pods.

For vessels without FTL drive, we use fusion reactors, and there is one or more fusion reactors aboard our vessels to provide enough power for STL manuevering and normal vessel operation if we are forced to shut down the Matter/Antimatter reactor.

We have not had an accident in all of our years, and we would be willing to trade you our reliable technology in exchange for some technology of yours.

<snip>




In stars like the Sun the nuclear burning takes place through a three step process called the proton-proton or pp chain. In the first step two protons collide to produce deuterium, a positron, and a neutrino. In the second step a proton collides with the deuterium to produce a helium-3 nucleus and a gamma ray. In the third step two helium-3s collide to produce a normal helium-4 nucleus with the release of two protons.



pos·i·tron ( P ) Pronunciation Key (pz-trn)
n.
An elementary particle having the same mass and magnitude of charge as an electron but exhibiting a positive charge; a positive electron. Also called antielectron.



And that last paragraph is... just wrong. Solar energy is used to form chemical bonds and things like carbon chains, not create matter. Did you fail chemistry or something? o.O

I don't quite know what youre getting at but your ejust proving my point. I said the reaction is a fusion reaction that forms heavier elements. An antimatter reaction completely destroys the atom and converts it all to energy. it doesnt form another particle. only energy.

Our engine cores utilize a special combination of liquid magnetically chaged metal and supercooled electromagnets. Thus they both provide a magnetic field that can be altered to the desired result. Ours are very safe however, we do also have to contend with the problem that if there is serious damage to the core, then there would be a core breach and we would lose containment of our antimatter. Our ship would be destroyed. We have sensors that can determine the stability of our core and it gives us plenty of warning if there is an imminent core breach.

Good luck, but just so yuo know, the last country to our knowledge that tried to develop a MAM reactor, well, cancelled out its own exsistance. Playing with this stuff is lethal. You have been warned...

Fascinating system, Indra Prime. We use electromagnets where we need to vary the field (i.e. everywhere but storage tanks, and even there you need some to propel it out of the tank), but we will certainly (with your permission, naturally) look into fitting our ships with liquid magnetic metal on their next refit.

Good luck, but just so yuo know, the last country to our knowledge that tried to develop a MAM reactor, well, cancelled out its own exsistance. Playing with this stuff is lethal. You have been warned...

Thank you for your warning. When we perfect the technology, we'd be open to trading the technology with your nation.

In the first stage of the reaction, a positron, a particel of anti-matter, is produced. Do you think it just sits around in the sun all by it's lonesome interacting with nothing? No; it'll meet up with an electron and the two will annilate each other in a burst of high-energy radiation. I was unable to locate an article specifying that part of the reaction, but as usual, I was engaged in several different activities at the time and figured you could put two and two together.

Read the post, think, and don't assume that just because I don't have a degree, that I don't know a little more than you in some regaurds.

[quote=http://science.nasa.gov/ssl/PAD/SOLAR/interior.htm]
In stars like the Sun the nuclear burning takes place through a three step process called the proton-proton or pp chain. In the first step two protons collide to produce deuterium, a positron, and a neutrino. In the second step a proton collides with the deuterium to produce a helium-3 nucleus and a gamma ray. In the third step two helium-3s collide to produce a normal helium-4 nucleus with the release of two protons.


Quoting you about the sun, this is not an antimatter reaction. This (above) does take place but matter/antimatter annaihalation does not. Ask any solar physicist. They will tell you it is a fusion reaction.

and just because it produces a positron does not mean it is an antimatter reaction. A M/AM reaction would involve an electron annaihalating a positron, not just the creation of a quantum object, i this case a positron.

The things you have to do to prove a guy with a degree wrong.



2. Smash two protons together to form a heavy hydrogen nucleus (a proton and a neutron), a positron (an antimatter electron), and a neutrino. The positron will annihilate the first electron it touches in a matter-antimatter reaction (!) producing energy in the form of gamma rays. Discard neutrinos. Just let 'em go man, because they could cause problems later.






The Proton-Proton Chain


The proton-proton chain is one the simplest fusion reactions that can take place in stellar interiors. It requires a minimum temperature of about 4 - 5,000,000 °K. Below this temperature, a star cannot fuse hydrogen at all. The P-P chain is a process that starts off with the fusion of two protons (hydrogen nuclei) into deuterium, which fuses with another proton to form a helium isotope. After this, the proton-proton chain can diverge off into one of three variant chains, all of which produce helium as a final product. The basic proton-proton chain, also called the PP1 chain, progresses as follows:

1.) p + p → 2H + e+ + 420 KeV ν

2.) e + e+ → 1.022 MeV γ

3.) 2H + p → 3He + 5.54 MeV γ
4.) 3He + 3He → 6Be + 1.002 MeV

5.) 6Be → 4He + 2p + 12.86 MeV 2.3927

In the first step, two protons fuse together to form a deuterium (H-2, or heavy hydrogen) nucleus. This emits a neutrino (which zips out of the Sun in just two seconds), a positron, and 420 KeV (thousand electron volts) of energy. In step 2, the positron comes in contact with a nearby electron, resulting in total annihilation (100% matter-to-energy conversion) that produces energy in the form of 1.022 MeV (million electron volts) worth of gamma rays (for any other reactions involving positron production, refer to this step). In step 3, the deuterium nucleus fuses with another proton, producing a Helium-3 (He-3) nucleus and energy in the form of gamma rays. Finally, in step 4, two He-3 nuclei fuse together, resulting in the formation of a Be-6 nucleus, which quickly decays (half-life: 4.97 × 10-21 sec), energetically releasing two protons and emitting 12.86 MeV of energy, finally resulting in a nucleus of Helium-4 (He-4), a.k.a. an alpha particle. The first three steps occur twice for each occurrence of the fourth & fifth steps. The complete PP1 chain reaction releases a net energy of 26.724 MeV (about 7.65% of this comes from the matter-antimatter reactions).

The proton-proton chain also has two other possible pathways, known as the PP2 and PP3 chains respectively. These two alternate pathways represent 15% and less than 0.02% respectively of the total P-P reactions that take place in the Sun. The PP2 and PP3 chains are identical in progression to the PP1 chain in steps one, two, and three, but progress differently afterwards. The PP2 chain looks like this:

4.) 3He + 4He → 7Be + 1.59 MeV γ

5.) 7Be + e- → 7Li + 1.373 MeV ν

6.) 7Li + p → 8Be + 16.7454 MeV

7.) 8Be → 4He + 4He + 91.6 KeV

Step 4 of the PP2 chain has an He-3 and He-4 nucleus fuse together, resulting in the formation of an atom of Beryllium-7 (Be-7) and the release of 1.59 MeV gamma rays. In step 5, the Be-7 nucleus fuses with an electron, resulting in the formation of a nucleus of Lithium-7 (Li-7) and the emission of a neutrino and 1.373 MeV of energy is imparted. Finally, in steps 6 and 7, the Li-7 nucleus combines with a proton, forming a Be-8 nucleus which quickly decays (half-life: 6.72 × 10-17 sec) into two He-4 nuclei.

Next is the PP3 chain. Its is identical to the PP2 chain up to step 4, but diverges off on its own different path afterwards. It looks like this:

5.) 7Be + p → 8B + γ

6.) 8B → 8Be + e+ + ν

7.) 8Be → 4He + 4He

In step 5 of the PP3 chain, the Be-7 nucleus fuses with a proton instead of an electron, producing a Boron-8 (B-8) nucleus. B-8 is unstable (half-life 0.77 sec) and decays into Be-8, a positron, and a neutrino in step 6. Step 7 is identical to step 7 of the PP2 chain.

fascinating

So ya conceed?

I must admit that I haven't studies solar dynamics in any amount of detail. So I give you credit on that. Its just a fascinating theory. May have to look it up.

***BREAKING NEWS BULLETIN***

From the News Desk of the IPGNN

We apologize for interrupting the regularly scheduled program to bring you this special news bulletin. Earlier Today, Scientists from The Armed Republic of Indra Prime and the Protectorate of Komanthor released a major breakthrough in Antimatter Reaction Technology to the general public. The information released was sketchy at best, but what we can tell you is that the Unified Research and Development between these two nations has given birth to a new generation of Matter/Antimatter Reactor Powerplants. The Scientists did state that there would be a press release shortly from the Senior Directorate of Indra Prime regarding the recent developments. Stay Tuned to this news station for breaking news regarding the amazing developments. Now back to the regular broadcasting of "Fireflys and Nukes, the new recipe of disaster and fun."

***BREAKING NEWS BULLETIN***

From the News Desk of the IPGNN

We apologize for interrupting the regularly scheduled program to bring you this special news bulletin. We have just recieved the first ever image of the newly constructed Antimatter Reactor that has been under development for the past few years at the research outpost of Komanthor and Indra Prime, somewhere in deep space.

http://ucsu.colorado.edu/~palmerts/Nationstates/core.jpg

This is the first picture to get out to the general public and this station has exclusive rights to it. From a highly placed source in the Indra Prime Temporal Research Institute, we have managed to get this picture before the offical news conference that is scheduled to begin sometime tomorrow afternoon. We do not have the exact specs of this reactor, but as the viewers at home can see, this reactor is incredibly sophisticated and does not conform to the usual design of reactor that we have seen up to this point. We can only wait until tomorrow to see what the scientists will disclose about this revolutionary new reactor. We now return you to your programming.

We would be very interested in purchasing some of these reactors
as soon as they become available.

Likewise, we of V.I. are interested in this new technology to power
Aeloulaera, our UnderWater City.

We will have to wait awhile before the nations of Indra Prime and Kormanthor modify our manufacturing industries so that we can produce these reactors with minimal danger and with the best quality. Prices for these reactors will be very expensive as they are the best Matter/ Antimatter Reactors in NS.We have spent decades in research of this new powersource and it is by far better than anything like it.