NationStates Jolt Archive

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:idea: Trojan Class Airborne Aircraft Carrier
http://www.hpphoto.com/servlet/LinkPhoto?GUID=2a2938da-7ae9-67eb-5c93-682e4f044db8&size=
The Trojan Class of Rigid Aircraft Carrier is a helium filled, rigid airship (not a blimp). The helium is contained in several self-sealing cells which are packed in a kevlar/polymer composite skin which is wrapped around a lightwieght titanium alloy skeleton. There are 2 turbofans which provide foward flight propulsion, one stationary gas turbine powered ducted fan to provide additonal power and to conserve fuel while cruising. The Trojan Class combines the capabilites of the KC-10 Tanker, the E-3 AWACS, and the US airborne aircraft carriers of World War 1. We have been able to hold 12 F/A-18 horents on bard and conduct the launching and recovery under many circumstances. A lightwieght magnetic catapault(powered by the solar panels or fuel cells) propeels the aircraft foward. Since during launch the air is passing over the wings of the aircraft to be launched at 300mph the catapault only acts as an ejector system to get the aircraft clear of the airship. The launching aircraft only needs to use 70% engine power to get clear of the airship's leading edge, and a blast deflector protects the planes left on the deck from being damaged. Landing is a bit tricky but it can be achived routinely with a little practice. The operation is much like in-flight refueling, the aircraft brings its self up to the back of the air ship and slowy accelrates/brakes until it is hovering over the landing area on the outer ramp. The arrestor hook(which has to be moved to the front) then captures a hook and the aircraft powers down, making contact with the deck. The hook winches the aircraft in further and the rear hatch is closed. There is a small sotrage area for 3-4 planes unde the main deck, the rest can be stored on top of the deck. There is enough room to re arm and refuel the aircraft for aother mission while they are all on deck. The pilots and crews can sleep, eat and relax in the comforts of the airliner style cabins and galley. Should a catostrophe occur the flight crew in the foward gondola would detach and it can hold 2 additonal passengers. As for the rest of the crew, a number of 2 man "escape pods" eject through the top of the airships skin and then parachute to saftey. These pods float and are protected from NBC attacks as well. These pods are used only if the aircraft can not be launched in time off the deck.(2 pods are downward firing in the plane storage area on the deck.) A massive radar is enclosed by the skin of the airship (the skin acts as a massive radome) It can track multiple airborne targets and act as athe control AWACS for a larger air force operation. If the radar detects incoming missiles, it carries a large variety and quantiy of counter measures to keep it protected from enemy fire. Should the skin of the airship be punctured, up to golf ball sized holes can be self-sealed. It can also also refuel bombers, fighters, or another Airship via its 2 hose and drouge systems and 1 flying boom system. Also all on board batteries and fuel-cell systems are supplemented by the solar panels which recharge all systems, in-flight, saving on fuel.
Specifications
Crew: 49 std 63max
[12 airship crew/weapons/AWACS operators, 1 boom operator, 12 pilots, 24 aircraft crew +provison for 14 more people ( if u want more crews for ure planes or are using 2 seat fighters)]
Length: many feet
Power Plant: (2) Turbofans (1) Gas Turbines powered ducted fan in tail
Range: 4,000 miles
Service Celing: 33,00 feet
Cruising Speed: 110mph (using one rear engine only)
Normal speedp 220mph
Maximum Speed: 300mph
Aircraft
(12) normal sized Fighters
or (14) A-4X sized aircraft.
Weapons
(2) AGM-65 Mavericks
(4) CIWS 30mm Phalanx turrets
(8} AIM-9Z Sidewinders(2 mounted on each CIWS)
(4) Patriot PAC-3 modified SAMs in (2) launchers
(12) AIM-120 AMRAAM or (4) Cruise missiles in foward ports
(6) AIM-54 Phoenix missle in (2) 360 degree turret mounts.
(2) ALMV/ASAT missiles
Counter Measures/Electronics
(320) RR-129A/AL Chaff Countermeasures
(210) JU-51/B Advanced Infrared Flare
(2) anti-IR missile laser pods
(2) AN/AAQ-24 DIRCM pods
(2) AN/ALQ-178 ECM pods
ALR-56C Radar Warning Receiver
Air Search Radome (Same as the one on the E-3)
Price
$1.1billion
_____________________________________________________

pretty inexpensive if you ask me , don't you think

HEY!!!!!!! your trickery shall not go unremembered!!!!!!!!

OOC: Dood, Pheonix, I was thinking about rigid carriers, but yours sucks no offense.

yeah mine was already done before you even came to ns, and your fighter is really crappy no offense

Airships? Lol...We just use heavy bombers and light fighters, or heavy bombers with kamikaze pilots in special missiles.An airship is just a slow moving target...

Phoenix at least my art is professional, sometimes I do it myself, no offense.

Also, your airship would fall very fast, a helium rigid airship cannot carry that kind of weight.

I have several airships, i have 2 for sale currently. Already one of my designs has been used in a war, it had great success, these are nothing like the dirgibles of old, this carrier for example can travel at 300mph, quite fast considering.

And it is heavier than air... as all rigid airships are, it is propelled foward for flight stub wings on the engine mounts snd the dynamics of the fuselage and skin (shown paritaly deflated in the above image) povides more lift area.

I have several airships, i have 2 for sale currently. Already one of my designs has been used in a war, it had great success, these are nothing like the dirgibles of old, this carrier for example can travel at 300mph, quite fast considering.

I fail to see how a craft that large, with so few engines, can travel that fast...

Hell, even an A-10 could catch up with that thing..then drop a few free-fall bombs while using the vulcan, and rip it up...lol.

*stifles laugh*
What advantage does this have over a normal aircraft carrier? All it has is a bigger radar signature, and it's speed really doesn't help it (Most planes, with the assistance of airborne refueling, can launch from far away...) And it presents a HUGE target.

It has big ass jets

It has big ass jets

Ever heard of the principle of diminishing returns? Yeah... I think you might find a picture of this design as a footnote to the definition of that principle in the dictionary.

Oh, then it makes great targets for missiles. You might as well just say "Shoot me."

*Launches 5 sopwith camels*. <--- joke.

*stifles laugh*
What advantage does this have over a normal aircraft carrier? All it has is a bigger radar signature, and it's speed really doesn't help it (Most planes, with the assistance of airborne refueling, can launch from far away...) And it presents a HUGE target. Do you know the affects non-stop flights have on pilots? This is obviously for areas where a naval carrier could never reach, and it becomes no more of a target then an E-3, if it gets into too much trouble the radar could be turned off for increased stealth. The speed helps becasue it can be within an area to provide fighter cover much faster and if it's fighter support is needed in another area it can reposition itself much faster. By the way im coming out with more airships which will act like destroyers and frigates in a sort of airborne carrier task group, of course the Hyperion class could always support and defend the operations of the Trojan.

*Launches 5 sopwith camels*. <--- joke.
I don't see how its funny, curtis jennys have been launched from dirgibles in the past, but of course world war 1 ended before they could be used,

I doubt there is any advantage to going where ACs can't reach. Remind me again of the value of putting a large target over enemy territory?

To distract the enemy :)

This is obviously for areas where a naval carrier could never reach

And how is it going to get there without being shot down?

and it becomes no more of a target then an E-3

Which is a prime target for enemy interceptors...

if it gets into too much trouble the radar could be turned off for increased stealth.

No offense, but that would be about as stealthy as a flying brick. The Federation uses dirigibles for heavy transport only... they aren't that fast, but they get the job done when ships won't do. They are also heavily escorted.

The speed helps becasue it can be within an area to provide fighter cover much faster and if it's fighter support is needed in another area it can reposition itself much faster.

You still have failed to explain how an airborne aircraft carrier can travel nearly ten times as fast as a naval aircraft carrier.

Hell, even an A-10 could catch up with that thing..then drop a few free-fall bombs while using the vulcan, and rip it up...lol. And what exactly is your A-10 pilot going to about the airship's own 30mmm guns, sidewinder, patriot, phoenix and amraam missiles?

Hell, even an A-10 could catch up with that thing..then drop a few free-fall bombs while using the vulcan, and rip it up...lol. And what exactly is your A-10 pilot going to about the airship's own 30mmm guns, sidewinder, patriot, phoenix and amraam missiles?

Yeah, that's another thing... Patriot launchers are HEAVY. I think you're going a little overkill...

No offense, but that would be about as stealthy as a flying brick. The Federation uses dirigibles for heavy transport only... they aren't that fast, but they get the job done when ships won't do. They are also heavily escorted.

The speed helps becasue it can be within an area to provide fighter cover much faster and if it's fighter support is needed in another area it can reposition itself much faster.

You still have failed to explain how an airborne aircraft carrier can travel nearly ten times as fast as a naval aircraft carrier.
My Airships are very stealthy. The only thing being picked up is the "fuselage" and radome. It is airborne, it has 2 jet engines producing more power than all the fighters combined, cant u see the scale? the purple looking plane is a DC-10, compare the size of the dc-10 engine to the airship engine, then ask..

And the fuselage is HUGE.

Plus diminishing returns.

Take the fighters that are inside the AAC, and use them to escort it... rotate the pilots and refuel them, not that hard.

Then we will simply attack the transports that carry the fuel.

IT ONLY GOES 300MPH as FULL AFTERBURN + PROP FOR LAUNCH OPERATIONS, ALL THREE ENGINES ON = 220MPH JETS OFF ONLY PROP = 110mph
Tankers are always a target so why dont you stop using them.
E-3 AWACs are always a target so why dont u stop using them.

The AAC carries a large amount of fuel for the fighters and can re-fuel fighters in midair or after they land inside.

My Airships are very stealthy. The only thing being picked up is the "fuselage" and radome. It is airborne, it has 2 jet engines producing more power than all the fighters combined, cant u see the scale? the purple looking plane is a DC-10, compare the size of the dc-10 engine to the airship engine, then ask..

A fuselage that big... a radome that big... yeah, not stealthy.

Those two massive jet engines would be so horribly inefficient and fuel guzzling, I'd be surprised if you got much thrust out of them. That's why real dirigibles use multiple, smaller engines.

I'm asking you the questions because I'm an aerospace engineer... and this design just doesn't make much sense.

Take the fighters that are inside the AAC, and use them to escort it... rotate the pilots and refuel them, not that hard.

You do realize how hard it was for prop planes to do that, right? It would be an order of magnitude more difficult for jet planes.

ooc: city states what do u think of my other airship then ->here (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=69077&highlight=)

IT ONLY GOES 300MPH as FULL AFTERBURN + PROP FOR LAUNCH OPERATIONS, ALL THREE ENGINES ON = 220MPH JETS OFF ONLY PROP = 110mph

Something that big doesn't use afterburners... they are only on fighters for short bursts of speed and faster takeoffs.

Tankers are always a target so why dont you stop using them.

Because tankers are a necessity and are rationally designed.

E-3 AWACs are always a target so why dont u stop using them.

Because AWACS are a necessity and are rationally designed.

We will take another 2 for experimental puproses.

We haev ben satisfied with your other one, and they are already replacing the older surveillance airships in our reserves.

That's a really dumb idea. I think your drawing is nice but your idea is stupid. Very stupid. The military is developing something called the joint mobile offshore base which is way more efficient than your aircraft carrier. Good intentions, bad idea.

Haha I can always count on an order from omz, order confirmed I'll give you $500,000 off

That's a really dumb idea. I think your drawing is nice but your idea is stupid. Very stupid. The military is developing something called the joint mobile offshore base which is way more efficient than your aircraft carrier. Good intentions, bad idea. Rofl man dont even get me started on that whole base thing, anyways this is a MUCH smaller scale then something like that.

The militaryWhat?
is developing something called the joint mobile offshore base which is way more efficient than your aircraft carrierAnd slower.
I'm an aerospace engineer.What do you think of flying wings?

ooc: city states what do u think of my other airship then ->here (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=69077&highlight=)

Once again, you are trying to put all of your eggs in one basket... a basket that is just not designed to go that fast, carry that much, and do EVERYTHING. Another point of contention is your prolific use of titanium... titanium is the last thing you want to use on a dirigible because of its high density and weight.

its "special" titanium

Haha I can always count on an order from omz, order confirmed I'll give you $500,000 off
Ah, very well.

Money has been wired, thank you

is developing something called the joint mobile offshore base which is way more efficient than your aircraft carrierAnd slower.

Airships aren't exactly known for being fast, either...

I'm an aerospace engineer.What do you think of flying wings?

Beautiful. Why do you ask?

its "special" titanium

Called "godmod" titanium perhaps?

its "special" titanium

Riiiight.

Airships aren't exactly known for being fast, either...Yea.
Beautiful. Why do you ask?I was wondering if my flying wing fighters are a stupid idea.

Beautiful. Why do you ask?I was wondering if my flying wing fighters are a stupid idea.

Well sorry to butt in but i am studying Aeronautical Engineering, and i just have to say - no way. They are beautiful craft, so keep it up. Please.

Oh wait i found a way to justify the speacilness of the titatinum. As it cools, air bubbles are injected createing the effect of "foamed" titanium, very light and strong.

I was wondering if my flying wing fighters are a stupid idea.

They were good enough for the Horten brothers in late WWII Germany... they are just a nightmare to control. You'd almost certainly have to use a digital flight control system to keep it in the air.

Oh wait i found a way to justify the speacilness of the titatinum. As it cools, air bubbles are injected createing the effect of "foamed" titanium, very light and strong.

No, that would just make the metal more brittle and easier to crack under stress.

And, titanium, naturally being flexible, would probably crack before use.

Oh wait i found a way to justify the speacilness of the titatinum. As it cools, air bubbles are injected createing the effect of "foamed" titanium, very light and strong.

Rrrrrrright. I foudn way to defeat that kind of titanium. Its called an instant grafting nucleaic orbital redundancy explosion missile.

stress what stress?? titanium is nice and bendy also not much stress at only 300mph its only stress is bearing the 20lb weight of the airship skin.




And there is such a thing as foamed alluminum... you know..

stress what stress?? titanium is nice and bendy also not much stress at only 300mph its only stress is bearing the 20lb weight of the airship skin.



If it only weights 20lb for the whole ship, it must be less than 1 mm thick. Easily penertrated by a blunt stick, let alone a bullet or missile.

And Aluminum isnt Titanium.

stress what stress?? titanium is nice and bendy also not much stress at only 300mph its only stress is bearing the 20lb weight of the airship skin.

Only the stress of the weight of the entire airship... everything it carries... aerodynamic forces... torque on the engine struts... would you like for me to continue?

And there is such a thing as foamed alluminum... you know.. Aluminum is also quite a bit different a metal from titanium. 'Foamed' metals need to be of sufficiently low density... and, at present, are difficult and expensive to produce.

Its not the present its teh NS werld!!




its 20lbs of pressure its about 20lbs per square inch.

Aluminum is far different from Titanium. For one, they have a far different number of valence electrons. For two, Aluminum is far more reactive (less valence electrons). For three, Titanium is far heavier then aluminum.

Its not presnt its teh NS werld!!




its 20lbs of pressure its aubout 20lbs per square inch.

You said the skin weighs 20lb. Get it right.

NO U FUCK NUT SHUT THE FUCK UP I SAID IT ONLY WILL TAKE 20lbS OF STRESS U NOOB STFU U ARE AN IDIOT

AFter you edited it.

NO U f--- NUT SHUT THE f--- UP I SAID IT ONLY WILL TAKE 20lbS OF STRESS U NOOB STFU U ARE AN IDIOT

Pot, I'd like to introduce you to the kettle. I think you have a lot to say to each other.

stress what stress?? titanium is nice and bendy also not much stress at only 300mph its only stress is bearing the 20lb weight of the airship skin.




And there is such a thing as foamed alluminum... you know..
see

I'd like to be the first to point out that Phoenix is not helping himself here.

Ill n00k you all

its only stress is bearing the 20lb weight of the airship skin

You too

And I will ignore you.

I have space ships they will laser balster u then i will show that pic of when theres a big ass mushroom cloud engulfing the earth and ill say thats jo0

And I will ignore you.

And then we'll send you back to your playpen with the other toddlers, while the adults get on with real RP.

http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:HT_IA2jfWREC:ameba.lpt.fi/~amaatta/artless/b_r/doom03.gif
iddqd iddqd iddqd iddqd idspispopd

idkfa idchoppers

I will buy 10 of them so I can test differant configurations such as a transport or a civillian Air Traffic Control. I will not use them in combat, but in the event of a natural disiater (hurricane hits air traffic communications center and damages it) than this can be up for long amounts of time while the damage is being replaced, there will be no need for armor, and since it travels at about 200 MPH top speed (no offense but 300 MPH is a little fast) it will be able to get away from any approaching storm. I will talk with my aerospace industry companies to see if they wish to experiment with this type of technology.

I think this is a good idea, but needs to be modified in some ways to make it more realistic.

OOC: Guys, lets calm down this is a game after all. Perhaps rather than harshly criticizing him we can suggest improvements politely. We dont need to turn this into a flame war over an idea that has a lot of potential.

Just dont engage the after burners (or remove them) and it can't exceed 220mph, order confirmed.

I will buy 10 of them so I can test differant configurations such as a transport or a civillian Air Traffic Control. I will not use them in combat, but in the event of a natural disiater (hurricane hits air traffic communications center and damages it) than this can be up for long amounts of time while the damage is being replaced, there will be no need for armor, and since it travels at about 200 MPH top speed (no offense but 300 MPH is a little fast) it will be able to get away from any approaching storm. I will talk with my aerospace industry companies to see if they wish to experiment with this type of technology.

I think this is a good idea, but needs to be modified in some ways to make it more realistic.

OOC: Guys, lets calm down this is a game after all. Perhaps rather than harshly criticizing him we can suggest improvements politely. We dont need to turn this into a flame war over an idea that has a lot of potential.

OOC: I tried that and he acted like a child about it. So I will treat him like one until he proves he can be an adult.

:tantrum:

Just dont engage the after burners (or remove them) and it can't exceed 220mph, order confirmed.

Whats the cost each? And whats the yearly maintenance cost?