NationStates Jolt Archive

Today the Ministy of Defence Procurement confirmed suspicions that the Elias Navy is to purchase two conventional aircraft carriers for the first time. It is a well know fact that the air force has often blocked moves by the Navy to aquire its own organic air cover and though the Navy has grown rapidly in the ladt few years, the only carriers have been Kiev STOVL class types serving almost exclusively as helicopter assault ships. It is expected that the four ships of this type will remain in service.

The competition for the new design is open to all nations, full specifications and pictures muct be included. The ships must have a conventional catapault lay out and carry between 40 and 80 planes. As yet it is not known what aircrfat will be carried.

The Elias Marine Coporation has launched its own bid for the contract and has yet to release specifications, only concept sketches.

http://news.mod.uk/img/pressdatabase/images/supportingImages/large/cvbae_tn.jpg

http://www.edu.cn/20020826/082603.jpg

OOOOOOOOO

YESYESYES

Here is mine:

http://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/static/pages/data/gallery/full/1049181919f.jpg
http://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/static/pages/data/gallery/full/1025703710f.jpg

Power Plant Two Nuclear Power Plant (A4W Pressurized Water Reactor)
Four shafts, Four propellers, with five blades each
Length, overall: 1,592 feet (332.85 meters)
Flight Deck Width: 175 feet (76.8 meters)
Beam: 124 feet (40.84 meters)
Displacement Approx.: 120,000 tons full load
Speed: 30+ knots (34.5+ miles per hour)
Aircraft: 95
Aircraft elevators: 2 Large
Catapults Four
Crew Ship's Company: 3,200
Air Wing: 2,480
Arnament: 4 AA-2 launchers
6 Phalnax's
2 AA-3 launchers
1 70mm cannon

Projected Cost: 5 Billion

FC: Sorry to be a pain but your second pic I think is actually of our design not yours. Difficult to tell though.

OOC: Actually, they both come from the same ship plans and concept art.

If you look at the bigger pics second superstructure, you can see the little window there.

Shows you how damn big it is.

same project, different ships.

Just for you, Ill modify Ulyanovsk to have a conventioanl catapult. Specs can be found by scrolling down at http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=70845

So

What do you think?

You havenmt said what you think yet :cry:

We've been tossing around an idea to modify the Russian Kuznetsov carrier for our use. It's still in design, so it would be a few years before one is complete. We're also in the process of deciding whether to make it conventional or nuclear powered, so let us know your preference. Cost for the conventional-powered is estimated to be a little over 1 billion. (Correct me if this is off, I'm not incredibly sure about carrier prices.) The conventional carrier, it's estimated, will have the following statistics:

SPEED/PROPULSION
Maximum: 35 kts
Cruising: 23 kts
Low Crusing/Patrol: 15 kts
Propulsion: 4 shafts, Westinghouse turbines, 8 boilers


RANGE
At Maximum: unknown
At Cruising: 9,000 nm
At Patrol: 12,000 nm


GENERAL
Displacement: 55,000 tons standard, 65,000 tons full load
Length: 1,005.5 ft
Beam: 237.2 ft
Draught: 29.9 ft
Aircraft Capacity: 58
Crew Compliment: 1,993, plus air crew of 626


ARMAMENT
3x Phalanx CIWS system
4x RIM-7 Sea Sparrow SAM Quad-launchers
2x RGM-84 Harpoon SLAM/SSM Quad-launchers



Original Schematics
http://www.richardstokowski.de/kuznetsov1-.jpg

Photos of the Kuznetsov, which our carrier will be based off of
http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/kuznetsov/images/kuz2.jpg
http://www.elleemmeshop.com/model1/navi/518.jpg

same project, different ships.

Actually, the last pic is from neither one of your designs. It lacks the bridgelike structure on Elias' ship and the small structure underneath the aft radar tower of FC's. It does belong to the same project though, just another proposed design:

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/europe/images/cvf-medium0.jpg

Patrua Thanks, must be another one of the BAE systems designs, looks like the V/STOl version without the ski jump.

Ferrussia: The propulsion decision is still being looked at although conventional will most likely offer the best cost effectiveness, espeacially since we wont be running them around the world the whole time like the US so it isnt really worth the initial investment.

So

What do you think?

You havenmt said what you think yet :cry:

well im pretty sure someone has used the pic before, other than that ists pretty good. oh also the Rl ship is a lot smaller, but im sure you know that and just fiddled the specs a bit. no problem either way.

Ferrussia: The propulsion decision is still being looked at although conventional will most likely offer the best cost effectiveness, espeacially since we wont be running them around the world the whole time like the US so it isnt really worth the initial investment.

I figured as much; the stats I posted are for the conventional one. So, I guess that makes it our final entry, so long as you don't mind the 2-4 year wait before one will be avaliable. If you like, we could also give you a version with Russian weapons systems, we changed them out for US weapons systems to suit our own purposes. The design is still very flexible at this stage in development.

Thanks for your consideration!

So

What do you think?

You havenmt said what you think yet :cry:

well im pretty sure someone has used the pic before, other than that ists pretty good. oh also the Rl ship is a lot smaller, but im sure you know that and just fiddled the specs a bit. no problem either way.

Uhuh

I fiddled a bit, and it uses a catapult aswell, right before the ski jump.

Capable of 1 Plane every 50 seconds.

bump

Elias, I am interested in buying some of your ships that have been shown in this post.

Please TM me.

When is the decision being made?

Bump.

So

When is the decision being made?

BUMP FOR WHEN THE RESULT WILL BE ANNOUNCED

Tuesday 23rd

Ok

Look forward to it.

The Elias Marine Corporation has released more concept sketches offering a V/STOL version as well as several other CTOL options:

V/STOL design:
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/europe/images/cvf_carrier_0.jpg

Alternate CTOL design:
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/europe/images/cvf-medium0.jpg

Specifications will be released prior to the submission deadline (decison date)

Conider mine

If the whole runway is used, CTOL can be launched up the ramp.

Crrier versions are fine as there is a catapult, and STOVL are even better.

We anticipate the upcoming announcement of the contract, and would like to inform you that the FCDA R&D department has finalized the schematics for the Kuznetsov-based carrier, and the first of these should be going into production soon. The desingers believe the specifications announced earlier will be met, if not exceeded. It should be an efficient, fast, and durable carrier - all important qualities for ships that need to be deployed quickly, but aren't necessarily in constant use.

We hope you appreciate our design, and give our best wishes to the others submitting designs.

While the Ministry of Defence Procurement and Export and the Elias Navy continue to discuss the different designsand their merits the Elias Marine Corporation has released preliminary basic projected specifications:

The following specs are applicable to both of the CTOl designs produced by Elias Marine

Displacement: 57,000 tons approx
Complement: 600 crew, with embarked squadron and Command staffs up to 1400 personnel
Propulsion: Not nuclear - a range of options is being considered, including Integrated Full Electric Propulsion
Armament: Self defence SAMs being considered
Aircraft: about 50-55 planes or helicopters depnding on which aircraft are chosen
Budget: Approximately $3.5 billion each based on initial buy of 2.

A while ago when the Royal kahtani Navy was considering a conventional carrier we came up with a design that might suit your needs if you were looking for a smaller ship:

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/europe/images/cdg-1213g.jpg

Power Plant 2 Nuclear Power Plants;
Two propellers with 4 blades each, 80,000 ch (56,000 kW);
Length, overall 262 meters
Flight Deck Width 65 meters
Total Height 75 meters
Displacement 35,500 tons
40,600 tons (full load)
Speed 27 knots
Aircraft 40
Aircraft Elevators 2
Catapults 2
ship's Company: 1,950
Launch Rate 1 aircraft/30 seconds
Munitions Storage 550 tons
Fuel Storage 3,400 tons

[However this project was cancelled and the Navy was forced by politicians to adopt a VSTOL only carrier force for budgetary reasons. Our current fleet consists of 1 hermes class carrier (http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NAVY/Images/Viraat7.jpg) and two Invinvible class carriers (http://www.modelshipbuilding.com/images/hms_invicible.jpg).

Anyway since our flagship (the Hermes) is starting to become extrememely old and increasingly unavailable for service we have started to seacrh for a future V/STOL design that could carry up to 40 aircraft. The V/STOL concept from Elias Marine would fill our needs perfectly and we would like to discuss the purchase of the diesign rights or indeed a joint venture.

First Lord of the Admiralty

Kahtan:

Thank you for your design and it will be entered into the competition.

Until the new carrier has been selected it is not possible to discuss purchasing the design, this issue will therefore have to be addressed at a ;ater dste. Thank you for your interest.

bump

Ulyanovsk class carrier

Preformance very similar to Nimitz. $3 bil
Length: 1065 feet
Width: 248 feet
Nuclear Reactors: two
Planes: 80
Speed: 30+ kts
Armament: 6 AK 630 30mm CIWS, 8 SA-N-9 Launchers

http://web.ukonline.co.uk/aj.cashmore/russia/carriers/ulyanovsk/ulyanovsk3.jpg
http://www.navalarmada.com/images/ulyanovsk.gif

A Conference between Ministry of Defence Procurement and Export officials and members of the Joint Naval Command has resulted in the following decisions:

Analysis of operational requirements has meant that the size of the proposed carriers has been more clearly defined. The size of the ship must now be between 50,000 & 65,000 tons. Therefore all proposals apart from the Ferrussian Kuznestov and Elias Marine designs have been discarded.
we thank all nations who have contributed and the announcement of the winning design will now be made on Wednesday the 24th.

Ministry of Defence Procurement and Export.

Defiant Class

http://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/static/pages/data/gallery/full/1049181919f.jpg

Power Plant Two Nuclear Power Plant (A4W Pressurized Water Reactor)
Four shafts, Four propellers, with five blades each
Length, overall: 1,592 feet (332.85 meters)
Flight Deck Width: 175 feet (76.8 meters)
Beam: 124 feet (40.84 meters)
Displacement Approx.: 59,000 tons empty
Displacement Approx.: 105,000 tons full load
Speed: 30+ knots (34.5+ miles per hour)
Aircraft: 95
Aircraft elevators: 2 Large
Catapults Four
Crew Ship's Company: 3,200
Air Wing: 2,480
Arnament: 4 AA-2 launchers
6 Phalnax's
2 AA-3 launchers
1 70mm cannon

Projected Cost: 5 Billion

too big, the specs are wrong the dispalcement can double between empty and full load, reality it would be about 100,000 tons if it had 95 planes.

The FCDA is quite happy to have heard that our design made the cut. While we realize it will be difficult to beat an indigenous UE design, we are still quite thrilled to have made the cut.

On a semi-related note, the first of the modified Kuznetsov designs (now being called the Riga class) is 1/3 done, and following constructions are expected to take significantly less time. Costs of the first carrier are raising at a fairly constant rate as we learn more about carrier technology and construction, and while more efficient and effective means of accomplishing desired ends are being found every day, this often neccessitates going back and changing what's been done. However, these delays should not affect the UE decision on the carrier, as the construction and design will be more or less perfected by the time a decision is made and the order begins.

Once again, thank you for your time and consideration.

Our carrier, that has been being constracted from the start anyway, is almost complete, adn will be ready for the announcement.

HEY

MY SIZE WASNT THERE, ALL YOU NEEDED TO DO WAS ASK!!!!

All you needed to ask was "Whats your ships displacement" and I would have said.

Unfair if you ask me.

FC:
Its not just based on displacement as we are looking for a carrier with around 40-60 planes. Displacement is a better measure though because planes differ in size. Anyway its too big, nice design though and thank you for entering

Damn

I thought you would have wanted MORE planes....

Defiant Class

http://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/static/pages/data/gallery/full/1049181919f.jpg

Power Plant Two Nuclear Power Plant (A4W Pressurized Water Reactor)
Four shafts, Four propellers, with five blades each
Length, overall: 1,592 feet (332.85 meters)
Flight Deck Width: 175 feet (76.8 meters)
Beam: 124 feet (40.84 meters)
Displacement Approx.: 59,000 tons empty
Displacement Approx.: 105,000 tons full load
Speed: 30+ knots (34.5+ miles per hour)
Aircraft: 95
Aircraft elevators: 2 Large
Catapults Four
Crew Ship's Company: 3,200
Air Wing: 2,480
Arnament: 4 AA-2 launchers
6 Phalnax's
2 AA-3 launchers
1 70mm cannon

Projected Cost: 5 Billion

no, we'd rather have two or three smaller carriers than one large one.

Ok, I get ya

We have smaller carriers than this, this is just our flagships design

A Meeting has been concluded at the Ministry of Defence Procurement and Export regarding the future carrier project. Neither design has yet to be selected and we require more conformation from Ferrussia regarding their design specifically on their costings. We would rather have a higher and more reliable quote than a low price estimate which could never be achived.



Ministry of Defence Procurement and Export,
Dictatorship of United Elias

http://www.nationstates.net/images/flags/uploads/united_elias.jpg

bump for Ferrussia.

Freedom Class Carrier:

http://www.mod.uk/img/dpa/cvfbigg1.jpg
http://www.mod.uk/img/dpa/cvfbigg2.jpg

Power Plant Two Nuclear Power Plant (A4W Pressurized Water Reactor)
Four shafts, Four propellers, with five blades each
Length, overall: 1,792 feet (332.85 meters)
Flight Deck Width: 142 feet (76.8 meters)
Beam: 124 feet (40.84 meters)
Displacement Approx.: 65,000 tons empty
Displacement Approx.: 95,000 tons full load
Speed: 30+ knots (34.5+ miles per hour)
Aircraft: 57
Aircraft elevators: 2 Large
Catapults Three
Crew Ship's Company: 3,200
Air Wing: 2,480
Arnament: 3 AA-2 launchers
6 Phalnax's
2 AA-3 launchers
1 70mm cannon

Projected Cost: 3.5 Billion

Not for entry, just for future intrest.

isnt this the same as defiant?

No

Lower price, its longer, thinner, and holds less aircraft.

Similar pics though.

nice, how many carriers do you have in total:

We have 5 Carriers, 3 Carrier battle groups (2 carriers are the smaller British S/VTOL ones).

We have 1 Nimitz, 1 Defiant and 1 Freedom

OOC: UE, sorry about the delay.

The FCDA, after learning much from the construction of the first ship, (92% complete) would like to put forth an estimated cost of $1.6 billion dollars for future ships. However, further developments with the current ship could lower the cost, experts say, to as low as $1.4 billion. A contract with UE for production of 2+ ships could also assist in finding lower cost ways of construction, more efficient systems, and other minor improvements.

We anticipate United Elias' announcement of the contract, expected sometime today.

The decision has been postponed a further day for more intensive discussions. We ask the FCDA how long a ship would take to complete if started immediately?




Ministry of Defence Procurement and Export,
Dictatorship of United Elias

http://www.nationstates.net/images/flags/uploads/united_elias.jpg

Were construction to begin immediately, we could have the completed ship within 12 mo. NS time (by my rules, about 1 NS day.). An additional carrier would be possible to complete within 18 mo. from today (as both would be constructed near-simultaneously, while one was given a higher priority). We hope you're satisified with these conditions, and look forward to your decision.

(I would say for something like this it would take around two weeks RL. Thats just my way of doing things anyway.)

(I would say for something like this it would take around two weeks RL. Thats just my way of doing things anyway.)

WFAT(Rylleh)----Special news report------
-------------------w/ Dan Blather------

(Dan) Tonight a disturbing incident With the Rylleh Minister of Military Purchases was found by officials Tearing and Rending his clothing , after being informed that there would be ANOTHER delay.
He was seen running down the street talking to himself. Muttering " it take another 2 weeks...another 2 weeks.... AAAHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!

:shock: :roll: :cry: ........ :lol:

(OOC - The RL Kuznetsov took a little under three years to complete, so I could adjust it to around there. I tend to go by the 1 RL day -> 1 NS year, so I guess 2-3 days would be more accurate than my original estimate. I don't think it'd take more than a few RL days, though. Still, judge as you may. If you go by a different time frame, you could wait a week or two before you considered it completed and shipped.)

Joint Statement from the Ministry of Defence Procurement and the Secretariat of the Admiral of the Fleet.

The Selection process for the future carrier requirement for the Elias Navy has been a rigourous one and both designs have shown their merits. However after considerable foreign interest in our idigneous designs and the fact that construction of an aircraft carrier in United Elias would be a further boost to our economy and national pride, the contract has been awarded to Elias Marine. The President himself has signed a document releasing a total of $6.5 billion to build two ships based on the 2nd Elias Marine CTOL design.

http://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/static/pages/data/gallery/full/1025703710f.jpg

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/europe/images/cvf-medium0.jpg

The ship will be offered for export in due course along withhe V/STOL version:

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/europe/images/cvf_carrier_0.jpg

Ferrussia:

Thank You for entering your excellent ship into our competition and we ask whether our engineers could visit one of the vessels in order to learn from your experience in this field that could help us in designing our vessel.

Rylleh:

The two Elias Navy ships will be ready in one RL week, and after this a thread will be opened inviting exports. If you give us 400 million upfront we can guarantee you'll have the third ship. Please select whether you wish to purchase the CTOL version or the V/STOL version.

the CTOL is what im needing I use SU-30MKR, I also use VSTOL ..Yak-141

400 million wired I feel like a stock holder

(Song running through my head) Anticipation......An..ti..ci.pa..aaa...tion is making me wait....Its keeping me wai..aaa..aaa...tin'.

the CTOL is what im needing I use SU-30MKR, I also use VSTOL ..Yak-141

400 million wired I feel like a stock holder

(Song running through my head) Anticipation......An..ti..ci.pa..aaa...tion is making me wait....Its keeping me wai..aaa..aaa...tin'.

Excellent we're using the Su-30MKI but we upgrade to thrust vectoring Su-37.

Do you like the Freedom Class?

I am thinking of starting a Naval thread.

not bad bit simlar to the defiant though.

United Elias, we appreciate your consideration in this matter. We realized from the start that competing against an idigenous UE design would be tough, so we're not terribly suprised. The first ship, which will be launched in a matter of days, is complete, and we would welcome your engineers to visit the project. We could also, if you like, assist with a 5-10% stake in the design and/or the assitance of our top engineers from the Riga project.

Once again, thank you for your consideration, and we wish you luck with your new carrier design.

(BTW, in case you were curious, we had more or less been designing it beforehand, we finalized designs and began construction when we posted. It helped that it was mostly based on a RL design, too. That's why it wouldn't have taken 2 RL weeks. I was confused and thought you were talking construction time, since I thought it was clear the design was finalized.)