NationStates Jolt Archive

Attican Empire's Military Statistics:

UPKEEP COSTS ONLY, NOT PURCHASE COSTS.

Total Population: 26,000,000

Total Military: 1,000,000 (Reserves and Active, Compulsory and Private)
Active: 250,000
6 Year Compulsory: 180,000 (Budget Cost: $0/year/person + $180,000,000 food, total : $180,000,000)
Paid Private Military: 20,000 (Budget Cost: $17,000/year/person + $20,000,000 food, total $380,000,000)
Reserve: 750,000 (pre-trained)
4 Year Compulsory Reserve: 550,000 (Budget Cost: N/A)
Paid Private Reserves: 200,000 (Budget Cost: $1000/year/person, total $200,000,000)

Various Ammunition Production: (Budget: $300,000,000)

Various Fuel: (Budget: $400,000,000)

Military Divisions:
Reichsheer (Army) : 840,000 (170,000 active)
Reichsmarine (Navy) : 40,000 (8,000 active)
Reichsluftwaffe (Air Force) : 40,000 (8,000 active)
Reichspolizei (Military Police) : 10,000 (2,000 active)
Kaiserheer (Special Forces) : 10,000 (2,000 active)
Military Training : 60,000 (Budget: $100,000,000)

Materiel:
Reichsheer
Großgepanzertgruppe
5000 Truppen (1000 active)
80 Leopard 2 (60 in storage) (Budget: $120,000)
60 Leopard C2 (50 in storage) (Budget: $80,000)
60 T-902 (50 in storage) (Budget: $80,000)
10 LAV-AD (none in storage) (Budget: $10,000)
50 AA-1 SAM (40 in storage) (Budget: $100,000)
Leichtegepanzertgruppe
5000 Truppen (1000 active)
20 Leopard C2 (10 in storage) (Budget: $60,000)
20 T-902 10 (10 in storage) (Budget: $60,000)
40 LAV-AD (35 in storage) (Budget: $40,000)
40 LAV-AT (35 in storage) (Budget: $40,000)
40 LAV-25 (35 in storage) (Budget: $40,000)
50 AA-1 SAM (All in storage) (Busget: $100,000)
Leichtinfantariegruppe
790,000 Truppen (158,000 Truppen active)
Primary Weapon: PaSMG-4
10 LAV-25 (All in storage) (Budget: $10,000)
Heimetgruppe
20 T-902 (10 in storage) (Budget: $40,000)
20 Leopard 2 (10 in storage) (Budget: $40,000)
Primary Weapon: PaAM-190
Bundesgruppe
20 T-902 (10 in storage) (Budget: $40,000)
20 Leopard 2 (10 in storage) (Budget: $40,000)
Primary Weapon: PaAM-190
Expeditiongruppe
20 T-902 (All in storage) (Budget: $60,000)
20 Leopard C2 (All in storage) (Budget: $60,000)
20 Leopard 2 (All in storage) (Budget: $60,000)
20 LAV-AT (All in storage) (Budget: $20,000)
30 LAV-AD (All in storage) (Budget: $30,000)
36 LAV-25 (All in storage) (Budget: $36,000)
Primary Weapon: PaAM-190
Reichsmarine
Flugzeugträgergruppeeins
AMS Wilhelm I (Nimitz claß Carrier) (Budget: $100,000,000)
AMS Hohenzollern (Los Angeles claß Attack Sub) (In Docks/storage) (Budget: $1,000,000)
AMS Dunkelmagier (Los Angeles claß Attack Sub) (Budget: $10,000,000)
AMS Zenturio (Ticonderoga claß Cruiser) (Budget: $10,000,000)
AMS Teutone (Oliver Hazard Perry claß Frigate) (In Docks/storage) (Budget: $1,000,000)
AMS Ameise (Oliver Hazard Perry claß Frigate) (Budget: $10,000,000)
AMS Ginter (Oliver Hazard Perry claß Frigate) (In Docks/storage) (Budget: $1,000,000)
AMS Niederkofler (Oliver Hazard Perry claß Frigate) (In Docks/storage) (Budget: $1,000,000)
AMS Mauser (Oliver Hazard Perry claß Frigate) (In Docks/storage) (Budget: $1,000,000)
AMS Volkschiff (Avenger claß Mine Countermeasures Ship) (In Docks/storage) (Budget: $1,000,000)
ß Minnow (Sacramento claß Fast Combat Support Ship) (Budget: $10,000,000)
Reichsluftwaffe
40 MiG-31 (25 in storage) (Budget: $200,000)
30 MiG-29TV (20 in storage) (Budget: $140,000)
40 Su-39 (30 in storage) (Budget: $160,000)
Learjet (Luftwaffeeins) (Budget: $20,000)
8 SH-65A's (Budget: $150,000)
2 Skycrane w/ Cargo Pod (Budget: $50,000)
Fallschirmjägerkorps
7 Fokker 60 Air Transports (Budget: $140,000)
Reichspolizei
20 T-902 (10 in storage) (Budget: $40,000)
10 Leopard C2 (All in storage) (Budget: $10,000)
20 Leopard 2 (All in storage) (Budget: $20,000)
2 M551 Sheridans (Budget: $20,000)
Primary Weapon: UMP Tactical SMG
Kaiserheer
40 T-902 (20 in storage) (Budget: $80,000)
20 Leopard C2 (10 in storage) (Budget: $40,000)
40 Leopard 2 (20 in storage) (Budget: $80,000)
20 LAV-AT (10 in storage) (Budget: $15,000)
25 LAV-AD (15 in storage) (Budget: $15,500)
25 LAV-25 (15 in storage) (Budget: $15,500)
Primary Weapon: MP5 SMG
Training
5 Leopard C2 (Budget: $25,000)
Primary Weapon: MP5 SMG

Nuclear:
Nuklearkorps: 1 1mt Nuclear Bomb (Budget: $5000)

Total Maintenence Budget: $1,708,392,000

ur too younge to have all that stuff

Acquisitions is not what makes up most of a military budget... it is training, paying your people, and maintaining their skills and equipment. I still think it's utterly ridiculous that you acquired a Nimitz-class carrier for 1/30th or 1/40th the cost to actually build one (depending on whether it is the older Nimitz-class or newer Roosevelt-class Nimitz carrier).

OOC: Sorry to keep picking holes in your military but i do know about maintenance on aircraft, and those budgets are WAY too low. Sorry buddy, but if 5 small non-military aircraft cost around $4,000,000 for 6 months of use, your figures are way out.

Just raise the prices for that, and i can't see any other major problems.

Helicopters especially are very high-maintenance, what with the rotor heads needing oiling etc. Plus there is always somnething that needs replacing, and that would cost a LOT more than the budget for all those aircraft.

No military plans are acceptable. In my view "Acceptable Military Plan" is a paradox.

No military plans are acceptable. In my view "Acceptable Military Plan" is a paradox.

So if I were to attack you you wouldn't defend yourself? I'll keep that in mind should the Star League ever be in an expansionist mood.

---Post deleted by NationStates Moderators---

I wouldn't if I were you, I have a made a few large defensive alliances for this reason.

McLeod, by what percentage should the cost for ACTIVE aircraft be increased to? Right now it is at... $11666.67 per.

McLeod, by what percentage should the cost for ACTIVE aircraft be increased to? Right now it is at... $11666.67 per.

Somewhere around $5,000,000 per for fighters, $750,000 for larger aircraft. Possibly a little less for transports. I don't really know about military costs since my source of info is in private aviation.

.... if that is a true maintenence cost it would be cheaper to buy new fighters every year.... try again.... my sources say maintenence should be somewhere around $20,000 a year per fighter.

Its not clear to me whats included in various ammunition production, but missile munitions will cost up to $600,000 per metric ton.

The final total operating cost (for active planes) is by my sources on average $15 million per plane per year, although I've seen it measured as cost per combat mission ($900,000). If the plane number seems high, my only explanations are that fuel, ammunitions and everything else are expensive, and thats an average so some planes will be much cheaper while others aren't. But, thats for the total cost, including pretty much everything- I think its what it averages out to per plane in the US as of mid 90's, anyway. Sortie cost and missile munitions cost are the ones I'm most sure about though.

Anyway, good job on doing all this! I may have prematurely called you a godmodder earlier, but most people don't even bother to put in as much work so, congratulations.

Depends how often you choose to throw every plane you have half way across the world to attack..whoever the hel it is you feel inclined to attack.

Ah, life is ever so much easier when your fighters are made of wood and starched Irish linen ;)

You have to pay the maintenance throughout the year, so replacingthem each year would not save you anything. Also, modern fighter aircraft are running $20M+, so I'm not sure where you get these figures.

I have a question: Why do your SOF's have all those silly vehicles?

Clermont they aren't running $20m+ to maintain them.


Munitions costs are stated elsewhere (Various Munitions, top), I will probably revise that and double/triple it.

How are they silly vehicles?

40 MiG-31 (25 in storage) (Budget: $200,000)
30 MiG-29TV (20 in storage) (Budget: $140,000)
40 Su-39 (30 in storage) (Budget: $160,000)
Learjet (Luftwaffeeins) (Budget: $20,000)
8 SH-65A's (Budget: $150,000)
2 Skycrane w/ Cargo Pod (Budget: $50,000)

This is what blows my mind... along with the carrier debate earlier. You're saying that a MiG-29 fighter or a Learjet is less expensive than my 2003 Honda Civic? I don't think so.

Those are upkeep costs... not purchase costs...

The purchase costs were in the several millions range.

Those are upkeep costs... not purchase costs...

The purchase costs were in the several millions range.

Where have you accounted for those purchases?

On the various threads of purchases. I will go get them if you want.

I can assure that all purchases were within the remaining military budget after taking money out for maintenence.

I also generally ask the people to telegram me my purchases, but I can't hold more than 10 telegrams.

IF I were you I would use a cost of about $1,000,000 a year per fighter, but since your military doesnt pay, call it about $500,000 each for parts, maintenance, fuel, and related costs.

On the various threads of purchases. I will go get them if you want.

I can assure that all purchases were within the remaining military budget after taking money out for maintenence.

I also generally ask the people to telegram me my purchases, but I can't hold more than 10 telegrams.

If you're spending more on acquisitions per year than on training, maintenance, and general upkeep... you've still got work to do. It costs quite a bit more than $5,000 a year to maintain a high-performance fighter.

http://pages.ripco.net/~antman87/Military.xls

OOC: do you really have to go to so much depth. If a few disagree what the heck!

[code:1:5fcaaddd6b]=(((C115-E115)*(500000*B8))+(E115*3000)) would specify that every fighter in active service receives $500,000 of maintenence per year, and $3000 in maintenence while in storage.[/code:1:5fcaaddd6b]

Well?

It depends on how you are counting the costs. Most figures released by DoD include personnel, parts, fuel, runways, ATC, and practise ordnance to name a few. Remember that, with the exception of the F-20 Tigershark, combat aircraft are specialy built to the last bolt, with very low production figures. The result is that everything about them cost 5-10 times as much as civilian aircraft. A fighter can go thru 500-100 lbs of avgas in brief training run.

These cost apply to any government system, even if you claim to get things "free" they still drag on your economy.

Personnel will always be your highest expense. Your average grunt, after training, pay, ammunition, fuel, medical benefits, housing and food, costs about $100,000 per year. SOF people cost 10-100 times this much. Then comes the cost of retirement: Twenty ears is about the max useful lifespan for a soldier/sailor/etc... after which you have to pay them 50% salary plus medical for another 30 years.

As for your SOF vehicles: There is nothing wrong with the vehicles themselves, simply that they have no place in an SO environment. Take a look at the SAS. Proper SOFs accomplish their goals by guile, cunning, and stealth. An LAV would be their worst nightmare.