NationStates Jolt Archive

The General Assembly as allowed an excess of military funding for the purchase of a new Sidearm for the Telcordian Expeditionary Force and the Republican Guard. The Pistol MUST meet the following requirements:

*The Pistol Must use a Caseless Round
*Be in the caliber of atleast 9mm, preferably .45 caliber
*Be select fire with a ROF not to exceed 700 RPM
*Have a magazine of atleast 15 rounds (being a caseless design that shouldnt be too hard)
*Be rugged reliable and relativety powerful
*Should have a tactical rail below the barrel for the attachement of flashlights or L.A.M.'s (or a similar "laser grip" style)
*Have a threaded barrel capable of attaching a silencer

DO NOT POST LINKS TO STOREFRONT THREADS, they will be ignored. This is a very large contract and it would be in your best intrest to deisgn a custom pistol as original items have a higher chance to win out.

Pmub!

The Elias Weapons and Ordnance Corporation would like to bid for the contract and we will submit a design in due course. This is not a storefron thread but just to show you our previous designs.


http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=59484&highlight=

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/images/M9bw.jpg

the m10
Primary function: Semiautomatic pistol
Builder: Beretta and Beretta USA
Length: 8.54 inches (21.69 centimeters)
Width: 1.50 inches (3.81 centimeters)
Height: 5.51 inches (14 centimeters)
Barrel length: 4.92 inches (12.5 centimeters)
Weight fully loaded: 2.55 pounds (1.16 kilograms)
Bore diameter: 9mm (approximately .355 inches)
Maximum effective range: 152.5 feet (50 meters)
Magazine capacity: 20 rounds
Muzzle velocity: 1200 feet (365 meters) per second

Sorry BoK it dose not meet our specifications, as mentioned by the General Assembly. (only 2 out of 7 requirements met)

To: Elias Weapons and Ordnance Corporation
From: Telcordian Millitary Acusitions Department

We await your application and wish your design team the best of luck.

http://www.righthook.com/images/pistol.gif

http://www.righthook.com/images/pistol.gifriight....

The General Assembly as allowed an excess of military funding for the purchase of a new Sidearm for the Telcordian Expeditionary Force and the Republican Guard. The Pistol MUST meet the following requirements:

*The Pistol Must use a Caseless Round
*Be in the caliber of atleast 9mm, preferably .45 caliber
*Be select fire with a ROF not to exceed 700 RPM
*Have a magazine of atleast 15 rounds (being a caseless design that shouldnt be too hard)
*Be rugged reliable and relativety powerful
*Should have a tactical rail below the barrel for the attachement of flashlights or L.A.M.'s (or a similar "laser grip" style)
*Have a threaded barrel capable of attaching a silencer

DO NOT POST LINKS TO STOREFRONT THREADS, they will be ignored. This is a very large contract and it would be in your best intrest to deisgn a custom pistol as original items have a higher chance to win out.

Well, we have a pistol currently in service with our military, which meets a few of your requirements. With some modifications to the plans, we can produce the pistol you're looking for. The specs of our model is:

.40 Cal Caseless
17 shot clip
very durable, very reliable (very few failures with issued pistols, similar to Glock durability)

It shouldn't take too long to add select fire, tactical rail, and a threaded barrel for a silencer. How many are you looking for, and what is the timeframe for your purchase?

Agnosticium is currently in the development of a caseless sidearm to match our caseless assault rifles and will post a proposal in due time as well. If this is acceptable, we shall press on with our design to accomodate your requirements.

The General Assembly as allowed an excess of military funding for the purchase of a new Sidearm for the Telcordian Expeditionary Force and the Republican Guard. The Pistol MUST meet the following requirements:

*The Pistol Must use a Caseless Round
*Be in the caliber of atleast 9mm, preferably .45 caliber
*Be select fire with a ROF not to exceed 700 RPM
*Have a magazine of atleast 15 rounds (being a caseless design that shouldnt be too hard)
*Be rugged reliable and relativety powerful
*Should have a tactical rail below the barrel for the attachement of flashlights or L.A.M.'s (or a similar "laser grip" style)
*Have a threaded barrel capable of attaching a silencer

DO NOT POST LINKS TO STOREFRONT THREADS, they will be ignored. This is a very large contract and it would be in your best intrest to deisgn a custom pistol as original items have a higher chance to win out.

Well, we have a pistol currently in service with our military, which meets a few of your requirements. With some modifications to the plans, we can produce the pistol you're looking for. The specs of our model is:

.40 Cal Caseless
17 shot clip
very durable, very reliable (very few failures with issued pistols, similar to Glock durability)

It shouldn't take too long to add select fire, tactical rail, and a threaded barrel for a silencer. How many are you looking for, and what is the timeframe for your purchase? very interesting, we would be interested in ordeirng 5 for testing at our L4 Ordanance Testing facility. though we've never been much of a fan of the .40 caliber round we are willing to test it out.

the contract will be for 10 million units (our millitary isnt that large but we also like to have surplus and a stock of replacement parts)

OOC: Wow..a full-auto .45 pistol is going to have a hell of a kick. The Glock 18 (9mm) on automatic is hard enough to control.

You'll have to compensate it (little exhaust vents at the tip of the barrel). Plus, caseless ammo's big draw is that it gets insane rates of fire...cutting it back to only 700rpm is totally wasting ability.

But if you're using like powered armor or something then you can totally ignore that.

You may want to take a look at our laser pistol:
http://www.freewebs.com/bluebomber/storefrontweapons.htm

(technically its caseless, since it doesnt eject cases)

its stats:
RelicArms Model 4 Laser Pistol
Laser weapons are less powerful versus armor than conventional weapons, however they have no recoil, are perfectly accurate, and are quieter than any conventional silenced weapons.
Magazine: 100 shot, auto recharging(1 new shot every 20 seconds)
Firing modes: safe, semi, auto(300 cyclic)
Special: can operate underwater or in a vacuum.(useful in space where recoil is an issue), easy to read ammo counter,can project its own laser pointer, has underbarrel tactical rails
$200

We'll say in advance that it doesn't have the greatest power against armor, but a hit against normal clothes or spacesuits will leave a huge wound.

It goes without saying this pistol is for post-modern and above armies.....

OOC: Wow..a full-auto .45 pistol is going to have a hell of a kick. The Glock 18 (9mm) on automatic is hard enough to control.

You'll have to compensate it (little exhaust vents at the tip of the barrel). Plus, caseless ammo's big draw is that it gets insane rates of fire...cutting it back to only 700rpm is totally wasting ability.

But if you're using like powered armor or something then you can totally ignore that. actually it should have a select fire option with the primary use as a Semi-Automatic Pistol... and no any rate of fire over 700 rpm with a Machine pistol is (A) Overkill, (B) impossible to control. Caseless rounds are also are more compact (allowing more magazine capacity) and the lack of a open bolt to external dirt and dust keeps the weapon cleaner and prevents breakdowns. Caseless rounds also get more "bang for their buck" considreing the recoil impulse they create is more balanced explosion putting equall pressure on all parts of the bolt prevent wear and stress fractures.

You may want to take a look at our laser pistol:
http://www.freewebs.com/bluebomber/storefrontweapons.htm

(technically its caseless, since it doesnt eject cases)

its stats:
RelicArms Model 4 Laser Pistol
Laser weapons are less powerful versus armor than conventional weapons, however they have no recoil, are perfectly accurate, and are quieter than any conventional silenced weapons.
Magazine: 100 shot, auto recharging(1 new shot every 20 seconds)
Firing modes: safe, semi, auto(300 cyclic)
Special: can operate underwater or in a vacuum.(useful in space where recoil is an issue), easy to read ammo counter,can project its own laser pointer, has underbarrel tactical rails
$200

We'll say in advance that it doesn't have the greatest power against armor, but a hit against normal clothes or spacesuits will leave a huge wound.

It goes without saying this pistol is for post-modern and above armies..... sorry no LASER weapons

OOC: Wow..a full-auto .45 pistol is going to have a hell of a kick. The Glock 18 (9mm) on automatic is hard enough to control.

You'll have to compensate it (little exhaust vents at the tip of the barrel). Plus, caseless ammo's big draw is that it gets insane rates of fire...cutting it back to only 700rpm is totally wasting ability.

But if you're using like powered armor or something then you can totally ignore that. actually it should have a select fire option with the primary use as a Semi-Automatic Pistol... and no any rate of fire over 700 rpm with a Machine pistol is (A) Overkill, (B) impossible to control. Caseless rounds are also are more compact (allowing more magazine capacity) and the lack of a open bolt to external dirt and dust keeps the weapon cleaner and prevents breakdowns. Caseless rounds also get more "bang for their buck" considreing the recoil impulse they create is more balanced explosion putting equall pressure on all parts of the bolt prevent wear and stress fractures.

Yep, that's all true, except for that part about anything over 700 being overkill. For an automatic pistol, yes. For a submachine gun (which is = to machine pistol), no.

But have fun hanging onto it when you select full-auto.

OOC: Wow..a full-auto .45 pistol is going to have a hell of a kick. The Glock 18 (9mm) on automatic is hard enough to control.

You'll have to compensate it (little exhaust vents at the tip of the barrel). Plus, caseless ammo's big draw is that it gets insane rates of fire...cutting it back to only 700rpm is totally wasting ability.

But if you're using like powered armor or something then you can totally ignore that. actually it should have a select fire option with the primary use as a Semi-Automatic Pistol... and no any rate of fire over 700 rpm with a Machine pistol is (A) Overkill, (B) impossible to control. Caseless rounds are also are more compact (allowing more magazine capacity) and the lack of a open bolt to external dirt and dust keeps the weapon cleaner and prevents breakdowns. Caseless rounds also get more "bang for their buck" considreing the recoil impulse they create is more balanced explosion putting equall pressure on all parts of the bolt prevent wear and stress fractures.

Yep, that's all true, except for that part about anything over 700 being overkill. For an automatic pistol, yes. For a submachine gun (which is = to machine pistol), no.

But have fun hanging onto it when you select full-auto.without a foregrip its nearly impossible to get an accurate hit on a man sized traget from any farther than 10 meters. besides Im interested more in the 3rnd burst option then full auto

http://world.guns.ru/smg/calico950.jpg
http://world.guns.ru/smg/calico-cut.jpg

Currently uses 9mm Para, but can re-design the bolt face and chamber face to seal so as to use a caseless round.

50 round mag, either 9mm or 10mm bore. 650 rounds per minute full auto, 3 round burst, and single shot. barrel can be threaded and new design foregrip affixed with picininny rails.

http://world.guns.ru/smg/calico950.jpg
http://world.guns.ru/smg/calico-cut.jpg

Currently uses 9mm Para, but can re-design the bolt face and chamber face to seal so as to use a caseless round.

50 round mag, either 9mm or 10mm bore. 650 rounds per minute full auto, 3 round burst, and single shot. barrel can be threaded and new design foregrip affixed with picininny rails. we will consider it

The General Assembly as allowed an excess of military funding for the purchase of a new Sidearm for the Telcordian Expeditionary Force and the Republican Guard. The Pistol MUST meet the following requirements:

*The Pistol Must use a Caseless Round
*Be in the caliber of atleast 9mm, preferably .45 caliber
*Be select fire with a ROF not to exceed 700 RPM
*Have a magazine of atleast 15 rounds (being a caseless design that shouldnt be too hard)
*Be rugged reliable and relativety powerful
*Should have a tactical rail below the barrel for the attachement of flashlights or L.A.M.'s (or a similar "laser grip" style)
*Have a threaded barrel capable of attaching a silencer

DO NOT POST LINKS TO STOREFRONT THREADS, they will be ignored. This is a very large contract and it would be in your best intrest to deisgn a custom pistol as original items have a higher chance to win out.


Well in response to this challenge Engineers at Crookfur Arms have come up with something that may meet your needs (if fufils all your requirements).

Presenting the CFAR PX-1
http://www.meatballs.terminator.org.uk/crookfur/images/PX-1.jpg

The round is Crookfur's new 9x22mm Caseless ammo which is based on the modern 9x23mm and 9x21mm rounds that had previosuly been condsidered for Crookfur's standard hand gun (the decision eventually went to the .357SIG round), offering massive punch almost equal to that of a traditional .45ACP +P+ round and with a high penetration tip the 9x22mm caseless offers exceptional stopping power.

The rate of fire in full auto mode is rather low at a mere 250 rounds per minute (burst fire mode actually has a ROF of almost 1500rpm so that the last round leaves the barrel before the recoil from the first is felt) to enhance stability and controlability. The controlability is aided by the solid and relatively weighty construction. Even with this rate of fire the 20 round magazine (larger 30 and 40 round magazines are a possibility) can be emptied in under 5 seconds.

The PX-1 features receiver top and fore grip RIS attachemnt points and can accept both slings and bolt on stocks in addition to silencers and other muzzle mounted attachments with the threaded barrel.

base details:

CFAR- Future pistol PX-1

Round: 9x22mm Case less
Rate of fire: SA/ 3 round burst/ full auto max rate of 250RPM
Barrel length: 132mm
Overall length: 325mm
Weight (gun empty): 1.4kg
Magazine capacity: 20rounds

hope you like it. (and yes it is a heavily modifed SPP but it looks cool.

Crookfur you are currently the Number 1 contestant for this contract. that is exactly what we are lookign for but we would like to see what The Elias Weapons and Ordnance Corporation & Agnosticium has developed first

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AMP-45 semi-automatic sidearm

The AMP-45 is an adaptation of the AMR-5 ACR and uses the same basic concept for fire, including the over-barrel mounted magazine. By using the same basic system, the AMP-45 allows the user experience the recoil only AFTER the rounds are away. Unfortunately the restriction of this system affects the possible number of rounds fired. The selector switch reflects this as you can choose safe, semi, or burst as modes of fire. The AMP utilizes the standard .45 caliber round without any jacketing, simply surrounded by a solid explosive matrix. By being caseless, the weapon is fully submersible and will fire so long as seawater does not corrode the workings (found to happen after approximately 1 1/2 weeks of submersion).

The magazine, being laid across the top of the barrel serves two purposes. The first is as a sight. When locked into place, it provides an excellent groove, dotted at the top and bottom with iridescent paint. The jacket modification allows an external sleeve to be added, providing a top rail for a scope or other sighting devices. The second purpose of the vertical loading is as part of the firing mechanism. Like the AMR-5 the vertical loading reduces jams and allows an increased magazine capacity without compromising handle grip length. The AMP magazine holds 18 rounds.

http://remtek.com/arms/hk/mil/g11/op.gif

All models are available with under-barrel rails or a side-rail for either side and threaded barrels can be purchased for the addition of suppressors. The weapon is designed to be internally suppressed, however, it still barks a relatively large cough, making the desire for an external silencer a valid request. As mentioned before, the kick is virtually non-existent until after the three-round burst in “burst” mode or each shot in semi.

Durability need not be a concern. The cyclic firing mechanism is designed to operate with substantial grit inside of the chamber, using the gasses from each fired shot to “clear” the chamber for the next round. Recent tests have shown the weapon to be fired after being dropped from a height of 25 feet as one of the testers accidentally let his weapon fall from its holster as he was sliding down a rope in a tactical situation. The weapon struck the asphalt, was recovered and performed satisfactorily. High temperature and resistant composites make the AMP-45 lighter than thought upon looking at it, due to the size approaching that of a Desert Eagle. Although slimmer and shorter, the profiles are similar making it a large handgun.

The one drawback commented on by many operators is that the top-loading magazine requires a new motion to load the weapon and they found it awkward at first. They did , however, like the stopping power of the AMP-45 after numerous complaints of the insufficient stopping power of the 9mm pistols they were issued.

Specifications:
Length: 10.5in/267mm
Height: 6.2in/157mm
Width: 1.2in/30.5mm
Empty Weight: 45oz/2.8lbs/1.27kg
Rifling: 1 turn in 14 inches (354mm)
Ammo Capacity: 18 rounds
Bore Diameter: .45 caliber/11.1mm
Sighting Range: 569ft/175m
Max Effective Range: 656ft/200m

Unit Cost: 1,200 dollars or equivalent

Danu Arms Tone Special Operations 10mm Automatic

Caliber 10mm Caseless
Action type Electric Firing System
Rate of Fire Single shot,3RB, Full auto 400RPM
Weight (w/empty magazine) 2.30 lbs
Weight (w/25 Round Block) 3.02 lbs
Length 9.65 inches
Length (w/suppressor) 16.65 inches
Width 1.50 inches
Sight Radius 7.76 inches
Rifling polygonal bore, right hand twist
Trigger pull (S/A) 4.85 lbs
Trigger pull (D/A) 12.13 lbs

Maximum effective range 60.75 yards
Maximum Range (10mm) 1500 yards

It has level IV recoil compensation, due to a hold
on bar, gas vents, and a recoil pad(Reducing recoil by 60% making automatic fire much more controllable). It has a slightly longer barrel, and it's a bit wider, thus harder to conceal. The Electric firing system allows firing in multiple environments including space and underwater.

Other notable features include a reinforced polymer frame, and a one-piece machined steel slide. The weapon is aimed using either iron sights or an optional laser aiming component. The iron sights provide a 3-dot sight picture with white or optional self-luminous tritium dots.

The Tone specifically includes a suppressor designed by Knight's Armament Company. Suppressed, the Tone produces only 132db of noise when fired dry, and a mere 122db when wet, about as loud as a .22 caliber pistol. Additionally, the can acts as an excellent flash suppressor which is essential for quiet sentry removal. The can is about seven and a half inches long, an inch and a half in diameter, and weighs almost a pound.
Molded into the frame are special accessory grooves for attaching a light or laser aimer.
Tone pistols achieved match grade accuracy with an average of 1.2 inches extreme spread in 5-round shot groups at 25 meters with service ammunition. Endurance testing demonstrated a service life of over 30,000 rounds of +P ammunition, with an additional 30,000 rounds certified on the slide and frame.
To meet the reliability requirement, the pistol had to demonstrate a minimum of 2,000 mean rounds between stoppages (MRBS) with both 10mm and +P ammunition. All pistols exceeded the 2000 MRBS with an average of 6000 MRBS.
In more than 450 accuracy test firings from a precision firing fixture, Tone pistols far exceeded the government requirement, averaging 1.44 inches, with 65 groups of less than one inch. There were four groups of .5 inches, with 5 rounds going through the same hole! This included firing with and without the sound/flash suppressor attached.
Three pistols were tested for accuracy after firing over 30,000 rounds, the specified service life of the pistol, and still met the new pistol accuracy requirement.
To meet operational environmental requirements, the pistol was function tested at +140 and -25 F, exposed to 2 hours of submersion in sea water at 66 feet, placed in surf, salt-fog, sand-dust, mud, icing, unlubricated and fouled environments.
The barrel is threaded to accept accessories such as a flash and sound suppressor and the unique Tone polygonal bore profile increases muzzle velocity and service life, reduces bore fouling and eases cleaning.
http://www.pistolskytte.org/info/vapen/HK_MARK_23.jpg