NationStates Jolt Archive

W/ some help via tgrams, I have updated and corrected my military portfolio. I also plan on making an Excel version to make it easier to keep updated et cetera.

Attican Empire's Military Statistics:

Total Military: 1,000,000 (Reserves and Active, Compulsory and Private)
Active: 250,000
6 Year Compulsory: 180,000 (Budget Cost: $0/year/person + $180,000,000 food, total : $180,000,000)
Paid Private Military: 20,000 (Budget Cost: $17,000/year/person + $20,000,000 food, total $380,000,000)
Reserve: 750,000 (pre-trained)
4 Year Compulsory Reserve: 550,000 (Budget Cost: N/A)
Paid Private Reserves: 200,000 (Budget Cost: $1000/year/person, total $200,000,000)

Various Ammunition Production: (Budget: $100,000,000)

Military Divisions:
Reichsheer (Army) : 840,000 (170,000 active)
Reichsmarine (Navy) : 40,000 (8,000 active)
Reichsluftwaffe (Air Force) : 40,000 (8,000 active)
Reichspolizei (Military Police) : 10,000 (2,000 active)
Kaiserheer (Special Forces) : 10,000 (2,000 active)
Military Training : 60,000 (Budget: $100,000,000)

Materiel:
Reichsheer
Großgepanzertgruppe
5000 Truppen (1000 active)
80 Leopard 2 (60 in storage) (Budget: $120,000)
60 Leopard C2 (50 in storage) (Budget: $80,000)
60 T-902 (50 in storage) (Budget: $80,000)
10 LAV-AD (none in storage) (Budget: $10,000)
50 AA-1 SAM (40 in storage) (Budget: $100,000)
Leichtegepanzertgruppe
5000 Truppen (1000 active)
20 Leopard C2 (10 in storage) (Budget: $60,000)
20 T-902 10 (10 in storage) (Budget: $60,000)
40 LAV-AD (35 in storage) (Budget: $40,000)
40 LAV-AT (35 in storage) (Budget: $40,000)
40 LAV-25 (35 in storage) (Budget: $40,000)
50 AA-1 SAM (All in storage) (Busget: $100,000)
Leichtinfantariegruppe
790,000 Truppen (158,000 Truppen active)
Primary Weapon: PaSMG-4
10 LAV-25 (All in storage) (Budget: $10,000)
Heimetgruppe
20 T-902 (10 in storage) (Budget: $40,000)
20 Leopard 2 (10 in storage) (Budget: $40,000)
Primary Weapon: PaAM-190
Bundesgruppe
20 T-902 (10 in storage) (Budget: $40,000)
20 Leopard 2 (10 in storage) (Budget: $40,000)
Primary Weapon: PaAM-190
Expeditiongruppe
20 T-902 (All in storage) (Budget: $60,000)
20 Leopard C2 (All in storage) (Budget: $60,000)
20 Leopard 2 (All in storage) (Budget: $60,000)
20 LAV-AT (All in storage) (Budget: $20,000)
30 LAV-AD (All in storage) (Budget: $30,000)
36 LAV-25 (All in storage) (Budget: $36,000)
Primary Weapon: PaAM-190
Reichsmarine
Flugzeugträgergruppeeins
AMS Wilhelm I (Nimitz claß Carrier) (Budget: $100,000,000)
AMS Hohenzollern (Los Angeles claß Attack Sub) (In Docks/storage) (Budget: $1,000,000)
AMS Dunkelmagier (Los Angeles claß Attack Sub) (Budget: $10,000,000)
AMS Zenturio (Ticonderoga claß Cruiser) (Budget: $10,000,000)
AMS Teutone (Oliver Hazard Perry claß Frigate) (In Docks/storage) (Budget: $1,000,000)
AMS Ameise (Oliver Hazard Perry claß Frigate) (Budget: $10,000,000)
AMS Ginter (Oliver Hazard Perry claß Frigate) (In Docks/storage) (Budget: $1,000,000)
AMS Niederkofler (Oliver Hazard Perry claß Frigate) (In Docks/storage) (Budget: $1,000,000)
AMS Mauser (Oliver Hazard Perry claß Frigate) (In Docks/storage) (Budget: $1,000,000)
AMS Volkschiff (Avenger claß Mine Countermeasures Ship) (In Docks/storage) (Budget: $1,000,000)
ß Minnow (Sacramento claß Fast Combat Support Ship) (Budget: $10,000,000)
Reichsluftwaffe
40 MiG-31 (25 in storage) (Budget: $200,000)
30 MiG-29TV (20 in storage) (Budget: $140,000)
40 Su-39 (30 in storage) (Budget: $160,000)
Learjet (Luftwaffeeins) (Budget: $20,000)
8 SH-65A's (Budget: $150,000)
2 Skycrane w/ Cargo Pod (Budget: $50,000)
Fallschirmjägerkorps
7 Fokker 60 Air Transports (Budget: $140,000)
Reichspolizei
20 T-902 (10 in storage) (Budget: $40,000)
10 Leopard C2 (All in storage) (Budget: $10,000)
20 Leopard 2 (All in storage) (Budget: $20,000)
2 M551 Sheridans (Budget: $20,000)
Primary Weapon: UMP Tactical SMG
Kaiserheer
40 T-902 (20 in storage) (Budget: $80,000)
20 Leopard C2 (10 in storage) (Budget: $40,000)
40 Leopard 2 (20 in storage) (Budget: $80,000)
20 LAV-AT (10 in storage) (Budget: $15,000)
25 LAV-AD (15 in storage) (Budget: $15,500)
25 LAV-25 (15 in storage) (Budget: $15,500)
Primary Weapon: MP5 SMG
Training
5 Leopard C2 (Budget: $25,000)
Primary Weapon: MP5 SMG

Nuclear:
Nuklearkorps: 1 1mt Nuclear Bomb (Budget: $5000)

Total Maintenence Budget: $1,108,392,000

You can only have 350,000 people in your military in total.

I also don't know how an August 24 nation with a good economy can have a nuclear bomb, or an Nimitz-class carrier.

Maybe I should ignore you.

No, no, let's let him have a military that size. Howver your economy implodes, so you can't afford all of your equipment. Your men now must rseort to whacking things with cardboard tubes.

What's wrong with you people? In reality, they could afford bombs and carriers lol

What's wrong with you people? In reality, they could afford bombs and carriers lol
Israel and North Korea doesn't have carriers.

OOC: Where did you get the huge naval fleet from? I thought you were proud to have built one battleship only a few days ago?

OOC: Where did you get the huge naval fleet from? I thought you were proud to have built one battleship only a few days ago?
He got it from the world of godmoding.

OOC: According to the NationStates Economy Calculator created by Aristasia, if 85% of GDP went to your government... and 10% of that went to military spending, the Attican Empire would only have about a $16 billion budget total. A Nimitz-class carrier cost approximately $3 billion to just build... that's before putting on the carrier air wing, personnel, training, maintenance, ordinance, and supply costs for the carrier. Probably a third, if not more, of the generously calculated defense budget would go to the carrier alone... the remainder simply isn't enough to support training, maintenance, acquisition, development, etc. costs for the other forces. Also, the listed Attican force seems to show no regard to the fact that the country has been pummelled ICly with all kinds of hell lately... attrition should be running very high.

The Ronald Reagan carrier costed near 4 billion to build I believe.

The Ronald Reagan carrier costed near 4 billion to build I believe.

OCC: It's also slightly upgraded from the standard Nimitz-class... but that only reinforces my point.

What's wrong with you people? In reality, they could afford bombs and carriers lol
Israel and North Korea doesn't have carriers.

So?

What's wrong with you people? In reality, they could afford bombs and carriers lol
Israel and North Korea doesn't have carriers. Neither does Russia or China.




Also.. in real life an aircraft carrier, even the current type of Nimitz, costs $4 billion to build and $2 billion a year to operate, this not include aircraft costs.

I have a question? Why do newer nations start with only 5 million people when June nations began with 9 million?

Ima june nation and i started with 5 million.

Well you got screwed because I either started with 7 or 9.

What's wrong with you people? In reality, they could afford bombs and carriers lol
Israel and North Korea doesn't have carriers. Neither does Russia or China.

Russia does, actually. They have a few, unfortunately, as they scrapped a lot of the plans, and the Kievs then went to the Ukraines.
As for China, they have a Kiev or something. But the problem is that lack of maintance provides the Chinese Nav a lot of problems.

But my point is, even if Attican Empire can have a nuclear bomb, he wouldn't be able to afford maintaining the carriers and managing a nuke program at the same time. Nuke programs takes the time, even the American one took years.

Also.. in real life an aircraft carrier, even the current type of Nimitz, costs $4 billion to build and $2 billion a year to operate, this not include aircraft costs.
That being said, the planned Corsair light carrier will only cost about a few hundred million. But still, a "supercarrier" like Nimitz-class is still very expensive.

---Post deleted by NationStates Moderators---

Well you got screwed because I either started with 7 or 9.
I started with 2.2 mil, then I downed it into 1.5 mil, then 1.2, then 1.5.

SC: Replied.

The kiev class is a VTOL carrier, closer to the wasp or the carriers the british use. It only holds about 13 V/STOL aircraft and 17 helicopters, the russians designed but never built a big carrier to counter the Nimitz. They saw it as too costly and never even bothered with it. The closest thing the russian have to the nimitz is the Kreml class, and that doesnt even have catapaults it uses a ski jump runway, limiting the type of planes and thier loads significantly. The latest information I have confirms China has no operational aircraft carriers, they have an uncompleted kiev class and a scrapped austrailian carrier that they have been studying for the last few years.

And Omz, Maccabees is talking about his total country's population in the game setting.

The latest information I have confirms China has no operational aircraft carriers, they have an uncompleted kiev class and a scrapped austrailian carrier that they have been studying for the last few years.

A person I know, who is from the Chinese Air Force Research center, said that the Chinese have a completed Kiev class or something, but the problem is---severe flaws in construction, and lack of maintance made the carrier can't even sail!


And Omz, Maccabees is talking about his total country's population in the game setting.
I see, sorry to Macabees for the confusion. But I think when I started (June 8) my population did began with 5 million... :?

Thats the same information I have, in 1998 they bought an uncompleted kiev class from the ukraine that had been sitting in the harbor since the fall of the soviet union, they have been trying to put it together since then but they havent had much luck.

http://www.pipian.com/stuffforchat/gdpcalc.php?nation=Attican%20Empire&defenseprovided=1&defense=17&militarybudget=1

I purchased the fleet over a course of 4 years, a few ships at a time.

The nuclear bomb was purchase via telegram, i can show you the telegram OOC if you wish. It was not developed via an Attican program, as definately do not have the resources to commence one. The naval fleet and tank divisions are now soaking up 50% of my military budget spending in maintenence soooo....

(BTW I did purchase the ships on the forum.)

Also, OMZ, I am not restricted to the terms of the treaty. The talks broke down before anything could be finalized.

The guns you bought from us are designated PaSMG-4 (Patrua SubMachineGun, type 4), the PaAM-190 (Patrua AMmunition type 190) is the ammo that has been developed to go with the gun and pierce some bulletproof vests.
Just thought you'd like to know.

I have fixed the error.

Okay, look, you have 1/7th of your population in your military. If I did that you'd be facing an army of 194 million. And it'd be a godmod for both of us.

Unless you are willing to admit that that army is comprised of a good deal of the old, the young, women and children, and armed with rocks they find on the ground, and they feed themselves by pouring over the landscape like locusts consuming everything in a destructive swath.

http://www.pipian.com/stuffforchat/gdpcalc.php?nation=Attican%20Empire&defenseprovided=1&defense=17&militarybudget=1

I purchased the fleet over a course of 4 years, a few ships at a time.

The nuclear bomb was purchase via telegram, i can show you the telegram OOC if you wish. It was not developed via an Attican program, as definately do not have the resources to commence one. The naval fleet and tank divisions are now soaking up 50% of my military budget spending in maintenence soooo....

(BTW I did purchase the ships on the forum.)

Also, OMZ, I am not restricted to the terms of the treaty. The talks broke down before anything could be finalized.

OOC: That simply does not change the fact that your nation is not large enough to support that kind of military force.

ummm... its 5.5% of my total population... plus most are reserves.

Santa Barbara, take a course in math. One Million men from 18 million men is NOT 1/7. It is 1/18. Thats ~5.5%. 5.5% including reserves.

Even 5% would be ruinous to your economy as a nation, your military is only about 800,000 less then mine. Of course I am very conservative in what I use for my military figures, trying to base it on what makes sense in peacetime, but still, your military is way too big

My nation forces compulsory military service for 6 years after graduation from high school, and forces a low level reserve status afterwards. Only people choosing to stay reserve (basically are called first but have possibility of officer status) are listed as reserve.

BTW, like 80% of that 5% are reserves, which means they stay at home and work etc until a war is on.

I also never claimed that i had a fighter wing on the carrier yet! Do you see fighters listed after the carrier? NO? omg!

Any other smart guys have arguements?

OOC:
The 5-7% range tops out for a dictator with powerhouse or better

yes, your military was crap, your wrecks still litter my island!

OOC:

Well i annihilated most of his air force when he attacked me. That seems to be back quickly.

He seems to have built a large navy very quickly seeing as how he sank his only ship with my men on board.

He also bought an entire coastal defence system over night.

To be able to recover from two VX attacks and a nuclear blast to rebuild in a few days is to say the least, nigh on impossible with your economy Attican.

But don't worry guys, his naval crew are suffering the effects of a VX gas contamination, and his citizens and land forces are suffering fallout from a nuclear bomb.

OOC: I fire ignore cannons at Attican Empire... here is my military if anyone is interested...

And I know that I do not have everything accurate (numbers of troops do not match equipment) I am still looking to buy more.


Current Military:142,100 Active
5,000 Desk Workers
Total Combat:137,100 Active

100,000 Army
--10,000 Tank Corps
--20,000 Artillery Corps
--70,000 Infantry

7,300 Air Force
--1,300 Pilots
--5,000 Matainence
--1,000 Commanders/Tacticians

20,000 Navy
--5,000 Submarine Force
--15,000 Surface Force

15,000 Strategic Missile Force
--7,500 Army SAM crew
--7,500 Air Force SAM Crew



Logistical Equipment
--100 Resupply Vehicles


Equipment for all non office workers
--137,100 Swiss Army Knife
--137,100 Bayrotan Combat Knife
--959,700 Ration packs, 7 per soldier
--137,100 M9 Pistols


Infantry
--10,000 Dragunov Sniper Rifle
--
Tanks
-- 1,000 M1A2 tanks

Artilery
--100 RGA-100 SPA

Anti Tank


Air Force
--10 F/A-18 Superhornets 1 Pilot Each
--30 F-15's 2 Pilots Each
--200 F-14 Tomcats, 2 pilots each
-- 100 F-22 Raptors, 1 pilot each
--

Navy
-- 3 Iowa Class Battleships, crew of 1,500 each
-- 5 Arleigh Burke Class Destroyers, crew of 325 each
-- 10 Ticonderoga Class Cruisers, crew of 350 each

Huh. I coulda sworn seeing your population at 7 million. Maybe that comes from you having had that much population as of very recently. Oh well, that doesn't mean I ought to take a course in math. Its called a mistake.

Huh. I coulda sworn seeing your population at 7 million. Maybe that comes from you having had that much population as of very recently. Oh well, that doesn't mean I ought to take a course in math. Its called a mistake.

I also never claimed that i had a fighter wing on the carrier yet! Do you see fighters listed after the carrier? NO? omg!

OOC: Then your carrier is all but useless if you don't have fighters on it... it's just a big floating target asking to be sunk.

You have only men in your country (you claim 18 million men)? I'm assuming you allow gays in your military.

Any other smart guys have arguements?

Yeah. Sure, have the biggest army you want- just remember-

A. Your country would be an intellectual dump, with no scientific institutions and no competent engineers. So you'd have to buy all your tech (Including guns, tanks, gear, boots, bullets, spare parts, etc.) not only military but civillian (Lighting systems, plumbing, power, clean water, computers, calculators, etc.)

B. Your army would take up like 50% of your national budget or more, leaving no funds for social welfare and other such necessaries. You would be like North Korea, only younger and crazier, with a scary military, but once a country like Denamrk or Canada defeats that, its no prob with the occupation since the people would be too malnourished to rise up against the occupiers, and would probably see them as liberators from your opressive rule.

C. Other stuff to that effect.

Sigh... most of you are idiots, you know that?

1. I have said it multiple times, and I will say it again: I PURCHASED THESE SHIPS OVER THE COURSE OF 4 DAYS.

2. MY DEFENSE BUDGET IS 17% OF THE NAT'L BUDGET.

3. 80% OF THE MILITARY IS RESERVES, WHICH MEANS THEY ARENT ACTIVE DUTY, WHICH MEANS THEY ARE IN THE WORKFORCE.

4. IN THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE, MEN CAN MEAN HUMANS.

5. City-States : So?

6. Kahta i ignore you to. Bye bye.

7. McLeod - again, the fighters I attacked you with are not on that list, are they? I purchased them as well, and I have used them. So stfu. And if you want, I can show you forum posts relating to purchases, and i can prove they are within the defense budget.

8. The nuclear blast was over 3 NS years ago...

9. Kahta, you have a smaller population than me, yet you have more tanks then me, you have FAR more fighters than me, and your navy is overall more expensive? Me godmod? No. You godmod? Yes.

If you want them I can sell MiG-29's for $10 mil each...

and for mceload and co: with maintenace personnel as a bonus.

5. City-States : So?

So... for every year you have that carrier sitting there not doing its job, you are wasting men, materiel, and money. Why buy a carrier if you aren't going to equip it to do what it was designed for? That's an awfully large way to compensate... most men do that with sports cars, not multibillion dollar naval warships/airbases.

8. The nuclear blast was over 3 NS years ago...

And the halflife of all the nasty shit produced by that explosion is a hell of a lot more than three years.

Yet, Japan was hit by two nuclear bombs and recovered in several years. It was not a major city. Plus, just because a nuclear bomb detonates in one of my cities, does not mean that all of my cities were destroyed.

And the carrier is awaiting purchase of fighters, I am going to wait until I can afford to purchase and maintain a fighter squadron for it.

Yet, Japan was hit by two nuclear bombs and recovered in several years. It was not a major city. Plus, just because a nuclear bomb detonates in one of my cities, does not mean that all of my cities were destroyed.

The weapons used at Hiroshima amd Nagasaki were relatively weak compared to type of warhead you described going off... a groundburst would also be more insidious than airburst, which was what was used on Japan. A groundburst like the one you described would poison the soil and groundwater in the vicinity of the blast for years. While it wouldn't have the immediate destructive effects of an airburst, the fallout effects would last much longer.

And the carrier is awaiting purchase of fighters, I am going to wait until I can afford to purchase and maintain a fighter squadron for it.

How many years is that going to be? Again, every year that an empty carrier sits in port is that many more billions of dollars wasted waiting to be used... your country just can't afford that.

It can. I might consider refitting any fighters of the Air Force (if possible) and reassigning them to the carrier.

It can. I might consider refitting any fighters of the Air Force (if possible) and reassigning them to the carrier.

That would be a very expensive undertaking as you would literally have to rebuild the structure of the aircraft to support heavier, naval-standard landing gear and the arrestor hook.

First off and I know this is extremely late in the piece, Russia DOES have a CTOL carrier, the Kuznetsov. I'm not sure if it's run down due to lack of spare parts or maintenance, but I know that as of about two years ago, Kuzzy took part in a NATO exercise and there was a huge pomp about Americans touring the Kuzzy and the Russians touring whatever Carrier the US had.

Attican: Kahta is a bit out of hand, yes, but think about it, as everyone else has said. A Nimitz is probably the single most complex machine ever built by us mere humans. 6000 or so crew. You've got 72 aircraft. You have to feed and clothe, not to mention train and keep them happy so they can stay at sea longer. You need to ensure the aircraft aboard has enough spare parts such that the aircraft are not only flying but battleworthy as well as ordnance to constantly train for "war".

As an interesting side note, putting Air Force aircraft onto carriers is not always feasible. Yes, Royal Air Force aircraft like the Hurrican and Spitfire operated off British carriers during World War 2, but that doesn't mean today's can. Example? The F-111, the Air Force got the "A" version and the "B" went to the Navy. The B was too fragile and heavy for carrier operations.

Another example? The F-16. The original light fighter competition, anyone remember that? The competitor to the 16 was the YF-17. The Navy wanted something to replace the F-4 Phantom II and A-7 Corsair II. The 16 was great, but it had one engine, too light and again fragile for carrier operations.

I'm a nation of what, 430+ mil people, which is double America's population. Do you see me running around with a dozen Nimitzes? Nope, because I find (In Character/For RP purposes) that the maintenance of such a large force is simply too great, even though I have billions, even trillions to spend on defense.

In summary, I'm going to lean with what everyone else has said and what I've said to you in the IRC chat. Go ahead and build your huge military, Nimitzes and nukes, but be prepared to have widespread starvation, little to no economy and everyone living in cardboard boxes and most of your population forming your military.

Kahta, you have a smaller population than me, yet you have more tanks then me, you have FAR more fighters than me, and your navy is overall more expensive? Me godmod? No. You godmod? Yes.

OOC: No, actually I have a budget that is in Excel, that I downloaded from this site. I bought all my weapons from other countries, and I update my budget daily. Also FYI: 18 Million is not very much bigger than 16 million. I have a military of 137,000 men, which is a very small percentage of people. I have posted financial info in other threads which you can look for if you want. Before i redid my budget, i was running a 27 Billion surplus a year. Now I run near 7 billion a year for a surplus.

And don't say my budget is crap, I asked my dad for some info regarding per capita police, fire, schools, etc. He's the finance director and school business manager and deals with that stuff all the time.

heres a link, but most of the stuff has changed a lot..

http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=66685&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

Adejaani - My carrier does not have any aircraft on it!
I said if possible, therefore my technicians will attempt to see if it is feasible.



I do not have a dozen Nimitzes. I have one Nimitz. I purchased my one megaton nuke for $1,000,000 via Telegram from a reputable source.

I dont have a huge military. It is 1 million men, but 80% are RESERVE, which means they are part of the workforce.

I know, I'm just saying..... The problem with having any sort of military Air Force (even Naval Aviation) is expensive because you need lots to make a difference. My recommendation is the sort of STOVL carriers the Brits, Argentinians, Thailand and the like operate. Unless you want a war, which, given your history of RP in the Forums, this is perfect for a first generation defensive Navy with small amounts of offense against similar sized nations.

If you're going to use a Nimitz to put what? Two dozen aircraft aboard, you've got a huge Carrier that is mostly unused. I should note that in your previous wars (the attack against Shildonia's carriers being the best example), you're not using your airpower properly. Airborne Early Warning, Anti Submarine Warfare, Electronic Warfare are absolutely a necessary part of the Carrier Air Wing.

Maybe not ASW, but AEW and EW definitely. WHY? If you can see them before they get there, you know what to defend against. What about EW? Ever heard of Standoff Jamming? I brought up your attack on Shildonia earlier. If you had EW jammers, he would've had a more difficult time detecting your force because you'd be jamming his radar, not only for the aircraft, but for the missiles. And hey, if you manage to jam him long enough to get the first punch in, bonus.

You've got a nice army (within the 1% thing, but that's still a lot.....) but how are you going to move it all, hmm? I know you've got your helicopters and Fokker aircraft, but you're lacking. You've also got too many Naval support ships. TWO are all that you need (the US runs ONE per Carrier Group, which is six to eight ships).

My recommendations are thus:

• Literally "bury" most of your equipment. I do that. I have several thousand tanks and aircraft and bombers that can be pulled out in the event of invasion
• Consolidate all that armor into one or two Armored Divisions and make the bulk of your army Light Infantry (rifles, RPGs, mortars etc)
• Buy additional aircraft to consolidate your mobility (eg C-130 Hercules) and helicopters (eg H-60 Seahawk/Blackhawk)
• Buy support aircraft (eg Standoff Jammers, Airborne Early Warning, Refuelling Tankers) and artillery and attack helicopters
• Buy some destroyers and cruisers for your Navy. OHPs are good ships, but you really need some big Aegis ones for Air Defense and anti ship strikes
• Since most of your military is reserve, make your Active Navy the Nimitz plus two or three escorts; your Active Army the two Armored one Infantry Divisions I noted, as well as whatever Special Forces, Airborne and the like and the rest "pure" Infantry Divisions and Brigades; your Air Force is okay, but I'd feel better halving it and putting the support in there.....

Dude,wtf.your 18,000,000 pop, and your military budget is biger than mine.
http://www.pipian.com/stuffforchat/gdpcalc.php?nation=B4kst4br&defenseprovided=1&defense=35&militarybudget=1

and i gowith 35% on my defence. What cheat are you using. Plus you only have a strong economy. I got a frietening.

Your military budget is 1000 times greater then mine. See those 3 extra decimal places?


Adejaani - I will look into your suggestions. I am sorry if I snapped, I was upset because people were calling me a godmodder without looking at the facts such as reserves, etc.

I have noticed my military performs poorly even when given numerical superiority. I will see what I can do.

Your military budget is 1000 times greater then mine. See those 3 extra decimal places?


Adejaani - I will look into your suggestions. I am sorry if I snapped, I was upset because people were calling me a godmodder without looking at the facts such as reserves, etc.

I have noticed my military performs poorly even when given numerical superiority. I will see what I can do.

Exactly..... You're better off shelving most of it and consolidating into the most effective fighting force (eg what I wrote, which, ironically is what I've got, scaled down greatly :roll: ), even if it means swallowing your pride and waiting until you've got a big enough population to uber military your way in.

By what amount does storing equipment lower its maintenence costs by? And what about placing ships in harbor?

Well, literally burying equipment reduces its effective maintenance cost to zero. Well, not exactly. Think about it. If you have a car, you have to get it serviced every like ten thousand miles/kilometers or something, right? The same goes for aircraft and tanks. Sure, every once in a while, dig them out, dust them off, drive a few laps to make sure it works, but the cost is negligible for upkeep (though to make it realistic, you can only use the buried equipment a little after the invasion or whatever). Tip: Declare your purpose and intents for burying the equipment somewhere in the Forums and then reference it, so there's no dispute you have these forces somewhere.

As for ships, that's kinda tough. Saltwater corrodes and is nasty for equipment, so there would need to be a lot more regular maintenance (even if no replacing worn out stuff).

It's as an interesting side note, the (real life) USS John F. Kennedy, CV-67 was placed in reserve without her SLEP (Service Life Extension Program) and barely maintained. As a result, when they returned her to active service, she was old, worn out and needed a lot more work.

End point? Unfortunately, ships need pretty much the same level of maintenance (due to its complexity) despite not sailing on the oceans and deploying into harm's way.

I got your TG, but I'm going to answer it here. :P It would be difficult to say the maintenance costs generally, because it's different. It also depends how much salary you give people. These are general averages, don't take them as gospel. Note that the rough total is per "RL year", not including the salaries or fuel or ordnance (bombs and missiles) expended, it's just for equipment to be replaced.

For more general information, source http://www.globalsecurity.org (I got the ship maintenance costs from that site)

"Recommended" maintenance costs and so on.....

Standard Fighter:
• 1x Pilot salary
• 1x Back/sideseater salary (if applicable)
• 3x Ground crew salaries
• Routine equipment maintenance
• Rough total: About 20 thousand
• For Stealth: Increase it by about 20%, including for salary (more technical)

Standard Bomber:
• 1x Pilot salary
• 2/3x Navigator/Bombardier/Co pilot salaries (if applicable)
• 6x Ground crew salaries
• Routine equipment maintenance
• Rough total: About 40 thousand
For stealth: Increase it by about 20%, including for salary (more technical)

Nimitz (ship):
• 4000x crew salary
• Routine equipment maintenance
• Rough total: About 160 mil
• With Air Wing (see above)

Ticonderoga:
• 360x crew salary
• Routine equipment maintenance
• Rough total: 28 mil

Arleigh Burke:
• 300x crew salary
• Routine equipment maintenance
• Rough total: 20 mil

Oliver Hazard Perry:
• 300x crew salary
• Routine equipment maintenance
• Rough total: 16 mil

Sacramento:
• 600x crew salary
• Routine equipment maintenance
• Rough total: 37 mil

MBT (Main Battle Tank eg Abrams):
• 4x crew salaries
• 6x ground support salaries
• Routine equipment maintenance
• Rough total: 20 thousand

Infantry
• 1x salary
• "Real" costs: Weapons, ammunition, food, shelter, clothing, canteens, water, radio, flak jacket, non combat tools (shovel, knives, torches) etc
• "Hidden" costs: Deploying, housing, hygiene, morale/recreation

Buried/unused equipment:
• Roughly 1 thousand per tank
• Roughly 2 thousand per fighter, 4 for bomber
• Roughly 1 mil per ship

OOC: According to the NationStates Economy Calculator created by Aristasia, if 85% of GDP went to your government... and 10% of that went to military spending, the Attican Empire would only have about a $16 billion budget total. A Nimitz-class carrier cost approximately $3 billion to just build... that's before putting on the carrier air wing, personnel, training, maintenance, ordinance, and supply costs for the carrier. Probably a third, if not more, of the generously calculated defense budget would go to the carrier alone... the remainder simply isn't enough to support training, maintenance, acquisition, development, etc. costs for the other forces. Also, the listed Attican force seems to show no regard to the fact that the country has been pummelled ICly with all kinds of hell lately... attrition should be running very high.

A Nimitz class aircraft carrier cost 4.5 billion :shock:
Check my military here: Remember that I'm Near Future-2075

http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:Y1lDetcXw3wC:www.horizonstar.net/msdestiny/images/gato1.jpg
Supreme Commander Wessell
Republic of Revelle (http://www.freewebs.com/revelle/)

Sigh... most of you are idiots, you know that?

1. I have said it multiple times, and I will say it again: I PURCHASED THESE SHIPS OVER THE COURSE OF 4 DAYS.

2. MY DEFENSE BUDGET IS 17% OF THE NAT'L BUDGET.

3. 80% OF THE MILITARY IS RESERVES, WHICH MEANS THEY ARENT ACTIVE DUTY, WHICH MEANS THEY ARE IN THE WORKFORCE.

4. IN THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE, MEN CAN MEAN HUMANS.

5. City-States : So?

6. Kahta i ignore you to. Bye bye.

7. McLeod - again, the fighters I attacked you with are not on that list, are they? I purchased them as well, and I have used them. So stfu. And if you want, I can show you forum posts relating to purchases, and i can prove they are within the defense budget.

8. The nuclear blast was over 3 NS years ago...

9. Kahta, you have a smaller population than me, yet you have more tanks then me, you have FAR more fighters than me, and your navy is overall more expensive? Me godmod? No. You godmod? Yes.

Your still overlooking a main point- even with 17% military budget, you would never be able to buy all that stuff. And even if you bought it over a period of years, you would be in debt up to your eyelashes. Not to mention your economy would go into a series of recessions and recovery with all the expensive purchases you make.

OOC: Revelle huh? I love their stuff and since they are local i support them... too bad they broke up though

bah quad post

LRR - umm the stuff was purchased over 12 days (NS years).



Adejaani - What if I do not pay salaries to my military (forced military service)?

bah quad post

bah quad post

LRR - umm the stuff was purchased over 12 days (NS years).

That is a different number than you said earlier.

Adejaani - What if I do not pay salaries to my military (forced military service)?

You can expect quality and effectiveness to drop dramatically. The Russians learned that the hard way... that's why they are going to an all-professional force now.

A Nimitz class aircraft carrier cost 4.5 billion :shock:
Check my military here: Remember that I'm Near Future-2075

http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:Y1lDetcXw3wC:www.horizonstar.net/msdestiny/images/gato1.jpg
Supreme Commander Wessell
Republic of Revelle (http://www.freewebs.com/revelle/)

To just build the hull, it costs about 3 billion... the additional cost comes from outfitting it with an air wing, people, etc.

THe ships were purchased over 4 years, the rest of my equipment began purchases 12 years ago, I bought my first tanks the second year of existance, most are still active.

THe ships were purchased over 4 years, the rest of my equipment began purchases 12 years ago, I bought my first tanks the second year of existance, most are still active.

And how much of that was destroyed or delayed by the wars and military actions your nation has been involved in? How much of your budget is going to cleaning up the nuclear wasteland that was once a major city and taking care of the victims?

Autonomous - none of my defense budget goes to cleaning nuclear debris... so technically, any part of the remaining 83% of my budget.

Any destroyed materiel in the recent wars has been updated on that military chart already. Most of my materiel never saw action.

Autonomous - none of my defense budget goes to cleaning nuclear debris... so technically, any part of the remaining 83% of my budget.

Any destroyed materiel in the recent wars has been updated on that military chart already. Most of my materiel never saw action.

Which part, though? Or are you just letting an environmental hazard sit there and fester?

If I remember correctly, your air force suffered heavy losses... and you've already somehow replaced all of them -and- their pilots? You've also pulled a navy that is more than ten times larger than anything you had before out of some discount bin. And you still have the money to pay for that large army force and sustaining a large reserve contingent?

The simple fact is that everyone else recognizes that your military force doesn't make sense based on what we all know about your capabilities... we've shown you through logic and reason why... you're the only one who doesn't seem to get it.

Reserves by our definition are part of the work force and are only called upon when needed. Therefore they cost the military nothing to upkeep. We lost a large number of Skyhawk II fighters (all, in fact), and a lot of MiG-23s. They are no longer on our roster. We also lost a number of MiG-29s, which we did replace.

We purchased the ships in orders of $3,000,000,000 each, once every year. I can prove you with the thread they were purchased in, if you like.


The pilots are of little concern. We are constantly training new pilots, and have trained pilots in the reserves. Therefore, they are simply called up. The new navy is still in the process of being staffed. I never claimed it was prepared, I only claimed that we had it.

200,000 men is not a large force.

Reserves by our definition are part of the work force and are only called upon when needed. Therefore they cost the military nothing to upkeep.

And that means your reserves would be all but useless in a real conflict with no maintenance or upkeep.

We purchased the ships in orders of $3,000,000,000 each, once every year. I can prove you with the thread they were purchased in, if you like.

Ships take time to build, refit, etc... so on and so forth. Just because it was in a thread doesn't mean it's necessarily a good idea or good RP.

The pilots are of little concern. We are constantly training new pilots, and have trained pilots in the reserves. Therefore, they are simply called up. The new navy is still in the process of being staffed. I never claimed it was prepared, I only claimed that we had it.

200,000 men is not a large force.

Training all those pilots and their support crews costs a lot of money... costs that you are not taking into account properly. Again, having expensive ships sit there without crews, weapons, and/or planes is wasting money that your country couldn't realistically afford. The size of your armed forces isn't so much the concern as it is keeping it within the context of what your nation would realistically be capable of doing... something that I think we've established is not being done.

If you don't pay military service, even forced conscription, you'd find, as Autonomous wrote, that quality and effectiveness drops greatly. That's why I prefer to keep a small volunteer military force and only force people to fight for their country in the event of invasion (what better motive to fight than to defend your homeland?).

As for Reserves by our definition are part of the work force and are only called upon when needed. Therefore they cost the military nothing to upkeep. That, Attican, is a lie. You'd find that in the US, if they call upon the Reserves, they each draw military pay according to their Pay Rate and, if it's for combat, they also get tax/pay bonuses. Reserves cost money if you use them, you know.

If you force people to fight, you will find they simply will not, run away or just plain not show. Remember that little war during the 60s/70s called Vietnam? Apart from the social issues, people just took their draft cards and banned them, because their number came up. You have to give them incentive and motive to fight.

For your training schedules, don't staff the Nimitz yet. (IC) go for a small SAG (Surface Action Group) and cobble your Naval Aviation and Air Force together. My recommendation? Despite its low range, the F/A-18C Hornet (and the E Super Hornet) is good value for money. It's Carrier capable and non Carrier nations (like Australia, Finland etc) use them in their Air Force.

And please, I know I told you all about burying and all that, but do NOT go and buy like six Nimitzes, placing them in reserve and then pushing them out in war along with everything else. You will very rapidly tire out your economy, trust me on that.

Having said all that, this is what I think your current force structure should have:

• 2x Nimitz (only one operational)
• 4x Ticonderoga
• 4x Arleigh Burke (or Spruance for a low cost alternative)
• 6x Oliver Hazard Perry
• 1x Sacramento
• 96x F/A-18C/E Hornet/Super Hornet (half for Nimitz, half for Air Force)
• 24x A-6E Intruder (Heavy Attack/Refuelling, half for Nim, half for AF)
• 12x CV-22 Osprey AEW version (Mini AWACS, detach a few for your Nim, rest goes to AF)
• 48x C-130J Hercules
• 48x H-60 Seahawk/Blackhawk
• Two Active Armored Divisions (roughly 500 tanks plus support)
• Four Active Infantry Divisions (roughly 24000 light infantry plus support)

Your economy will sag a bit, even with this small amount, but you won't go bankrupt and you have a decent punching force. Of course, these are my recommendations, but it's similar to what I had when I started.

Shameless plug: Buy your aircraft at http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=63712&highlight= :P

You must remember, however, that I do have the capabilities to modify our educational system. Therefore, my schools can teach loyalty to the state as well as have military classes to prepare them for the 6 years obligatory service, as well as the experience they would undoubtebly keep afterwards. Just because men are not paid, does not mean they will run away. It is how they are influenced as children and as teenagers. Like it or not, that is the truth.

On another note, if the USA was attacked and forced to use civilian military, I doubt our population would run away. Most would probably fight.


*btw* I beleive I have purchased aircraft from OMZ. I have purchased quite a few things from him actually.

I am working on reforming my military right now, then I will give it a year to come into action. I simply CANNOT allow a private military force, because my nations laws (although no longer visible) state that it is compulsory. I will add a part for the 6 year afterschool term and people who join for money though. (the 6 year term is required, they are not paid, though they do receive somewhat of a military education into life skills to prepare them for the workforce, which will be reflected on my budget.)

You must remember, however, that I do have the capabilities to modify our educational system. Therefore, my schools can teach loyalty to the state as well as have military classes to prepare them for the 6 years obligatory service, as well as the experience they would undoubtebly keep afterwards. Just because men are not paid, does not mean they will run away. It is how they are influenced as children and as teenagers. Like it or not, that is the truth.

And, in the real world, the former Soviet nations are dealing with rampant acts of corruption, piracy, criminal behavior, and outright desertion in their conscripted (and officer) ranks... propaganda can only go so far. The truth is that men will not fight if they feel that their leadership does not support them... and you've given no indications that your leadership actually does. The experiences and capabilities of your reserve force will also inevitably degrade over time as to be virtually useless without skills maintenance.

I am working on reforming my military right now, then I will give it a year to come into action. I simply CANNOT allow a private military force, because my nations laws (although no longer visible) state that it is compulsory.

That's a cheap cop-out to cover bad RP. Just because NS doesn't necessarily allow us to change certain things, that doesn't mean that we can't role play the changes in here.

Screw you. At least I actually try to constrain myself to the constraints that NS gives me, and not bypass them totally.

Screw you. At least I actually try to constrain myself to the constraints that NS gives me, and not bypass them totally.

Some constraints should be followed, some should be bent, and others can be broken... the trick is learning which is which.

Since you don't seem to have figured it out, we've been trying to help you play your nation better and smarter... for that, you've responded by ignoring, ridiculing, or avoiding our criticisms and suggestions. My patience and tact is wearing thin.

I have 20,000 tanks.

Thats not a lot of tank, considering that the USA has over 50,000 tanks.

At least Attican doesnt have over 300 warships in each fleet, like he did in the last war. So I'd say its a big improvement.

http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:Y1lDetcXw3wC:www.horizonstar.net/msdestiny/images/gato1.jpg
Supreme Commander Wessell
Republic of Revelle (http://www.freewebs.com/revelle/)

That number might be armored vehicles. The U.S. has 9,000 Abrams and a bit more Pattons.

Attican, trust me, brainwashing will not work. You're giving the people absolutely no choice. You will find that people who WANT to do something will be the best at doing it. It is proven that Communist and Authoritarian/Dictatorship societies will not work well. Yes, there are "true devotees", but not enough to make a difference.

You should actually do what I do, rotating military training. Everyone must do a training year/basic "Boot" and then refresher training every so often. They also get PAID to do it. No one is forced to sign up, but those "civilians" would be that much more prepared for war if it happened.

And lastly, it's your nation, do what you like with it, I'm just trying to suggest ways to make it better and more realistic......

Info:The oldest kid, of a family, has to join the military. First they attend a military school, but still lives with his family and has a normal life. When they turn 18 they go into the military and have a regular military life in the Republic of Revelle. When they turn 40 they can retire (quiet nicely that is) or stay in the military.

Thats what I do

http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:Y1lDetcXw3wC:www.horizonstar.net/msdestiny/images/gato1.jpg
Supreme Commander Wessell
Republic of Revelle (http://www.freewebs.com/revelle/)

In my country once the kid turns 17 he goes to boot camp for 2-4 years. Then goes home or stays.

JROTC (Junior Reserve Officers Training Corp) starts in 1st grade and ends in 12th. There is no getting around it. I believe it inforces disiplin and morality.

OOC: Revelle - I have never claimed to have 300 ships in a fleet, The most I have ever claimed to have before this was 1, the Schliessen.

In my nation, thruout ordinary schooling a year of Military Studies (either weapons usage, tactics, strategy, or logistics) is required every year, starting from Kindergarten. When they graduate 12th grade, they enter compulsory, unpaid military service for 6 years. At the end, they can choose to enter either paid reserve forces or unpaid (paid can become officers, although they are the first to be called upon and must attend military schooling on the various subjects every year for a week, unpaid simply must report to the military when called upon). They MUST choose one. The unpaid reserve status lasts until they are 30, paid lasts until they choose to leave the status, if they are below 30 years old, they switch to unpaid.

Kahta has a small, professional military of 137,100 troops. We have compulsory service, but that is only being required to go to boot camp for 2 weeks in the summer from the ages of 14-18. It is a persons choice of whether or not to join and if they choose not too, nothing will happen to them. If they choose to join than they can go straight into the service, or they can go to college courtesy of Uncle Sam (Sam is my name in RL). Following College/high school they take a series of several tests, each of which determines their skill/strength in 4 categories. Physical strength, intelligence, logical thinking, and emotional strength. Depending on the score they can choose a service, or can be assigned to one.

To defend the country, there is the regular armed forces. In addition to that we have stockpiles of "Militia packs" which can be seen at my store. http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=67783&highlight= In addition to the militia, a sizeable chunk of the population owns guns, SUV's, trucks, and ATV's. We are also extremely patriotic and enjoy hunting in the woods, and being outside. This gives the defendsers a large advantage in terms of knowing the area.

Kahta has a small, professional military of 137,100 troops. We have compulsory service, but that is only being required to go to boot camp for 2 weeks in the summer from the ages of 14-18. It is a persons choice of whether or not to join and if they choose not too, nothing will happen to them. If they choose to join than they can go straight into the service, or they can go to college courtesy of Uncle Sam (Sam is my name in RL). Following College/high school they take a series of several tests, each of which determines their skill/strength in 4 categories. Physical strength, intelligence, logical thinking, and emotional strength. Depending on the score they can choose a service, or can be assigned to one.

To defend the country, there is the regular armed forces. In addition to that we have stockpiles of "Militia packs" which can be seen at my store. http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=67783&highlight= In addition to the militia, a sizeable chunk of the population owns guns, SUV's, trucks, and ATV's. We are also extremely patriotic and enjoy hunting in the woods, and being outside. This gives the defendsers a large advantage in terms of knowing the area.

---Post deleted by NationStates Moderators---

Looks at Sniper Countrys reply, makes note of dropping out of high school illegal.

Ok, w/ some help via telegram, I have composed an updated military standard accounting for storage et cetera et cetera. I also changed some stuff post that to account for some inconsistancies in the numbers.

Attican Empire's Military Statistics:

Total Military: 1,000,000 (Reserves and Active, Compulsory and Private)
Active: 250,000
6 Year Compulsory: 180,000 (Budget Cost: $0/year/person + $180,000,000 food, total : $180,000,000)
Paid Private Military: 20,000 (Budget Cost: $17,000/year/person + $20,000,000 food, total $380,000,000)
Reserve: 750,000 (pre-trained)
4 Year Compulsory Reserve: 550,000 (Budget Cost: N/A)
Paid Private Reserves: 200,000 (Budget Cost: $1000/year/person, total $200,000,000)

Various Ammunition Production: (Budget: $100,000,000)

Military Divisions:
Reichsheer (Army) : 840,000 (170,000 active)
Reichsmarine (Navy) : 40,000 (8,000 active)
Reichsluftwaffe (Air Force) : 40,000 (8,000 active)
Reichspolizei (Military Police) : 10,000 (2,000 active)
Kaiserheer (Special Forces) : 10,000 (2,000 active)
Military Training : 60,000 (Budget: $100,000,000)

Materiel:
Reichsheer
Großgepanzertgruppe
5000 Truppen (1000 active)
80 Leopard 2 (60 in storage) (Budget: $120,000)
60 Leopard C2 (50 in storage) (Budget: $80,000)
60 T-902 (50 in storage) (Budget: $80,000)
10 LAV-AD (none in storage) (Budget: $10,000)
50 AA-1 SAM (40 in storage) (Budget: $100,000)
Leichtegepanzertgruppe
5000 Truppen (1000 active)
20 Leopard C2 (10 in storage) (Budget: $60,000)
20 T-902 10 (10 in storage) (Budget: $60,000)
40 LAV-AD (35 in storage) (Budget: $40,000)
40 LAV-AT (35 in storage) (Budget: $40,000)
40 LAV-25 (35 in storage) (Budget: $40,000)
50 AA-1 SAM (All in storage) (Busget: $100,000)
Leichtinfantariegruppe
790,000 Truppen (158,000 Truppen active)
Primary Weapon: PaSMG-4
10 LAV-25 (All in storage) (Budget: $10,000)
Heimetgruppe
20 T-902 (10 in storage) (Budget: $40,000)
20 Leopard 2 (10 in storage) (Budget: $40,000)
Primary Weapon: PaAM-190
Bundesgruppe
20 T-902 (10 in storage) (Budget: $40,000)
20 Leopard 2 (10 in storage) (Budget: $40,000)
Primary Weapon: PaAM-190
Expeditiongruppe
20 T-902 (All in storage) (Budget: $60,000)
20 Leopard C2 (All in storage) (Budget: $60,000)
20 Leopard 2 (All in storage) (Budget: $60,000)
20 LAV-AT (All in storage) (Budget: $20,000)
30 LAV-AD (All in storage) (Budget: $30,000)
36 LAV-25 (All in storage) (Budget: $36,000)
Primary Weapon: PaAM-190
Reichsmarine
Flugzeugträgergruppeeins
AMS Wilhelm I (Nimitz claß Carrier) (Budget: $100,000,000)
AMS Hohenzollern (Los Angeles claß Attack Sub) (In Docks/storage) (Budget: $1,000,000)
AMS Dunkelmagier (Los Angeles claß Attack Sub) (Budget: $10,000,000)
AMS Zenturio (Ticonderoga claß Cruiser) (Budget: $10,000,000)
AMS Teutone (Oliver Hazard Perry claß Frigate) (In Docks/storage) (Budget: $1,000,000)
AMS Ameise (Oliver Hazard Perry claß Frigate) (Budget: $10,000,000)
AMS Ginter (Oliver Hazard Perry claß Frigate) (In Docks/storage) (Budget: $1,000,000)
AMS Niederkofler (Oliver Hazard Perry claß Frigate) (In Docks/storage) (Budget: $1,000,000)
AMS Mauser (Oliver Hazard Perry claß Frigate) (In Docks/storage) (Budget: $1,000,000)
AMS Volkschiff (Avenger claß Mine Countermeasures Ship) (In Docks/storage) (Budget: $1,000,000)
ß Minnow (Sacramento claß Fast Combat Support Ship) (Budget: $10,000,000)
Reichsluftwaffe
40 MiG-31 (25 in storage) (Budget: $200,000)
30 MiG-29TV (20 in storage) (Budget: $140,000)
40 Su-39 (30 in storage) (Budget: $160,000)
Learjet (Luftwaffeeins) (Budget: $20,000)
8 SH-65A's (Budget: $150,000)
2 Skycrane w/ Cargo Pod (Budget: $50,000)
Fallschirmjägerkorps
7 Fokker 60 Air Transports (Budget: $140,000)
Reichspolizei
20 T-902 (10 in storage) (Budget: $40,000)
10 Leopard C2 (All in storage) (Budget: $10,000)
20 Leopard 2 (All in storage) (Budget: $20,000)
2 M551 Sheridans (Budget: $20,000)
Primary Weapon: UMP Tactical SMG
Kaiserheer
40 T-902 (20 in storage) (Budget: $80,000)
20 Leopard C2 (10 in storage) (Budget: $40,000)
40 Leopard 2 (20 in storage) (Budget: $80,000)
20 LAV-AT (10 in storage) (Budget: $15,000)
25 LAV-AD (15 in storage) (Budget: $15,500)
25 LAV-25 (15 in storage) (Budget: $15,500)
Primary Weapon: MP5 SMG
Training
5 Leopard C2 (Budget: $25,000)
Primary Weapon: MP5 SMG

Nuclear:
Nuklearkorps: 1 1mt Nuclear Bomb (Budget: $5000)

Total Maintenence Budget: $1,108,392,000

Double Post.

---Post deleted by NationStates Moderators---

Expect it to take at LEAST a year for the changes in my Military Portfolio to take effect.

I did make changes.... any opinions...

All citizens, TPM
Age 7-10 enter military education system
Age 14 mandatory Physical Fitness training +BCT begins.
Age 17 BCT complete, skill selected skill training begins
Age 19 Qualify for skill
Age 19-20 enter active duty in a military or civil service branch -or- go into a non-military profession that you have been trained for/selected
Age 24-28 Re-Qualify for fitness+skill (or if skill required college, initaly qualify for skill now)
Age 48 Re-Qualify for fitness, option for honorable discharge

---Post deleted by NationStates Moderators---

You must remember, however, that I do have the capabilities to modify our educational system. Therefore, my schools can teach loyalty to the state as well as have military classes to prepare them for the 6 years obligatory service, as well as the experience they would undoubtebly keep afterwards. Just because men are not paid, does not mean they will run away. It is how they are influenced as children and as teenagers. Like it or not, that is the truth.

On another note, if the USA was attacked and forced to use civilian military, I doubt our population would run away. Most would probably fight.


*btw* I beleive I have purchased aircraft from OMZ. I have purchased quite a few things from him actually.

I am working on reforming my military right now, then I will give it a year to come into action. I simply CANNOT allow a private military force, because my nations laws (although no longer visible) state that it is compulsory. I will add a part for the 6 year afterschool term and people who join for money though. (the 6 year term is required, they are not paid, though they do receive somewhat of a military education into life skills to prepare them for the workforce, which will be reflected on my budget.)

Well, sure. Everybody has schools. But your schools stach people to be soldiers, not intellectuals.

---Post deleted by NationStates Moderators---

Everyone (able bodied) must serve in the military for 6 years, and then must choose one of two reserve status's.

By the way, for a historical example, look at the Hitler Jugend. They fought literally to the death.