NationStates Jolt Archive

CoC Shipyards has Devoloped a Variant of the Ohio Class Missile boats for special operations purposes. It isa floating mobile Special ops base.

Carrying 2 Night Owls(have to be unfolded to be deployed)(or the stealth Helo when it gets devolopped), 1 RAH-66 Commache, several low detectable hovercraft and minisubs(unknown number at this time, and billets for 50 special ops troops.)

There will be greater automation of the submarine that will cut the crew size down to about 50-75 officers and sailors.

It will be designed for quick and quiet insertions and quick fire support.


OOC: I'd appreciate your thoughts, anything similar in existence(except the PT Boat)

OOC: There is a helicopter just like the one you describe in the anime Gasaraki... I'll see if I can find any pictures and/or technical specs on it.

*bump*

Cmon people, no thoughts or even interest in these helo's or ships?

if i get someone to show interest i will put them up for sale as soon as they are devoloped, but if not i will keep them for myself and only produce small numbers.

---Post deleted by NationStates Moderators---

We'd greatly appreciate the help in the devolopment of the Night Owl Helicopter MH-73, and the Silencer class SSTN.

OOC: OTCC, did you get my TM?


One similar vessel is my SOCS type 2 (Special Operations Command Ship, based on a Hybrid Trimaran/Catamaran design "wave splitter"). Looking forward to yours.


NOTES on the SOCS-t2:

This platform can provide communications and coordination capabilities for 96 Operators (12, 8-man or 8, 12-man teams, or a mix...more is possible in extreme cases) with gear. There is room for up to an additional 200 coordination, command, and other support personnel but the crew is only 60 men, including the defense/weapons technicians (some 36 are non-weapons crew). Satellite uplinks are made available by 3 high-bandwith satellite dishes and 4 low-bandwith dishes. Equipment for infrared laser (secure) communications between vessels is provided...as is equipment for secure communication to deployed teams.

Airwing
Some 3 pairs of Pioneer UAVs, 2 Hunter UAVs, and 1 Extended Range Hunter UAV are standard equipment on each SOCS-t2 vessel. Manned aircraft include 6 Blackhawk/Cobra/Standard-size helicopters, with 2-4 internally stowed during the launch of the others; or 3 Pave Low/Large-size helicopters, with 1 internally stowed during the launch of the other craft; or several Kiowa and/or Defender/"Little Bird" craft).

Land Vehicles
14 Desert Raider 6x6 light scout/attack vehicles are included in each SOCS-t2 as well as some 30 armed ATVs and/or Combat-capable motorbikes...Negev LMGs are provided for each craft. This is standard deployment but larger vehicles (up to APCs and LAVs) can also be deployed.


Small Watercraft
Also normally "attached" to the SOCSt2 is a flotilla of:

6-10 Zodiacs (variable passenger capacities, link (http://www.bulletprooftour.com/tour_boats.asp)):
- Zodiac F-470 Combat Rubber Raiding/Reconnaissance Craft (CRRC) with Armorflate (inflatable armored pannels, ), OR
- Zodiac Ribster Light Strike Craft (LSC), OR
- 'Baseline' Zodiac F-470s.

A couple of larger vessels:
4, 36' RIB (Rigid-hull Inflatable Boat, for carrying up to 8 persons), OR
2, Mark V Special Operations Craft (5 crew, up to 16 passengers/up to 4 CRRC).

The small water craft are deployed from a pair of wenches attached to 20ton and 40ton cranes (also capable of bearing cargo or even the largest of aircraft borne by the SOCSt2) or by a retractable "slip-way."


Defensive systems include electronic Jammers; Some "Short Stops" (ECM devices intended to present a "false contact" to incoming enemy missiles, causing a premature detonation); and a single MTHEL, ship-based 'laser' ABM system.

More "active" defenses include some 6 Sea Sparrow stations, 4 "Eagle Eye" AD stations (Stinger or miniSAM-of-choice based, each station bears 2 standard canisters (4/canister for Stingers)), 8 MDG-351 35mm "Millennium Gun" MUWS stations, 8 MiniTyphoon stations bearing 7.62 Negev LMGs, 4 MiniTyphoon stations with M2 .50 cal machine guns, and 3 Harpoon missile stations (can be "switched out" for ASM station of choice). Most of these systems can be, and are, remotely or automatically operated.

The SOCS vessels are designed for semi-autonomous operations with only a light protective force. The ship employs "stealthy" design features to allow operations near hostile shores with a low chance of detection (not a stealth ship, simply very stealthy with low radiative scan/detection returns...about as stealthy as the "Visby-class" stealth ship). Radar panels are integrated into the "skin" of the SOCS-t2 and most weapons systems are stowed behind "radar shields" unless the ship is being engaged by hostile craft.

IC: Western Asia would be interested in supporting and aiding the development of the so-called "MH-73 Night Owl Helicopter."

There is already a submarine on NS that can carry helicopters, and I use an Ohio sub for specops, but my Ohio variant cannot carry a helicopter, It would be interesting to see a combination of those two ideas.

the FCS Silencer SSTN-1 has been commisioned and is conducting sea trials right now

If sea trials are succesfull the price will be set at 1.7 Billion a piece

can anyone get pics of the Pegasus class Missile boat?

Mongoose Class Fast Missile Patrol Boat

Engine Two Gas powered Twin Turbocharged 5.7 liter( 346ci) V8's
Propulsion Twin Vectoring Waterjets capable of pushing the vessel to a max speed of 53 Knots
Crew 2 officers and 10 Sailors
Armanment 4 .50 Caliber M2 HMG's in two twin mounts both Bow and Stern mounted
4 Stinger missiles in one quad launcher mounted just aft of the Bridge
8 Harpoon missiles in two quad launchers mounted on the port and Stern Rear quarters


Cost: 35 Million

I could use 16. 560 mil upon confirmation

I could use 16. 560 mil upon confirmation


Order Confirmed, they will be shipped to you within a 3 NS months (6 hours RL)

Oooooh. PT boats. Can I have 4 please.

*money wired*

Oooooh. PT boats. Can I have 4 please.

Order's total is 140 Million

They should arrive within one month(2 Hours RL)

*bump*

sometime tommorow or friday i should have the Silencer ready for Export

Gracias *money wired*

The Silencer is now available for Export

Using increased automation we have reduced the crew size of an Ohio class submarine down to 11 officers and 61 men

We have also removed the missile silos of the Ohio and put in Hangar space for 3 helicopters, 1 RAH-66 Commache, and 2 MH-60 Nighthawk special operations helicopters. Along with Hangar space is billeting and some training room for up to 55 Special operations soldiers.
there are also two small special forces minisubs and 5 Zodiac stored within the vessel.

the Normal armanent of the Silencer class will be 4 MK 48 size Torpedo tubes.

with the decreased weight the Silencer is good for 24 Knots submerged and 20 surfaced.
none of the silence of the original ohio has been lost by the original conversion

Cost for production of one of these vessels for export is 1.56 Billion Dollars
this also includes the Helicopters and Minisubs

*bump*

Renard highly doubts the stealth capability of the SOCS type 2. :?

Hiding a vessel the size of an assault ship would be difficult in the extreme.

*bump for those that want em*

Renard highly doubts the stealth capability of the SOCS type 2. :?

Hiding a vessel the size of an assault ship would be difficult in the extreme.

I think that you're definitively mis-reading something along the way, in that case. Perhaps you mistake a name for an object, or your knowledge fails you in these matters.

I will attempt to demonstrate to you that this impression of yours is, well, quite plainly mistaken.

First will come a mention on "stealth" ship known as the Visby-class and second will come the comparison of the SOCSt2 to a standard assault ship (the LHD-1 Wasp class, in this case).

I do not claim that the ship is invisible, only that is is stealthy...allowing it to approach hostile terrain without detection. This is based upon real and proven technologies beyond NS that could be implimented.

------

Firstly: The Visby-class "stealth" ship (Reference Link (http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/visby/index.html)). Bearing a crew of 43, its "stealthiness" relies strongly upon the use of angled panels and innovative materials.


The design of the Visby has been directed to minimising the optical and infra-red signature, above water acoustic and hydroacoustic signature, underwater electrical potential and magnetic signature, pressure signature, radar cross section and actively emitted signals. A stealth corvette of the YS 2000 design has a detection range of 13km in rough seas and 22km in calm sea without jamming. In a jammed environment, the Visby would be detected at a range of 8km in rough sea and 11km in calm sea.

The hull material is a sandwich construction comprising a PVC core with a carbon fibre and vinyl laminate. The material provides high strength and rigidity, low weight, good shock resistance, low radar and magnetic signature.


What is not mentioned there is that the Visby bears the capacity to land (but not to land stealthily) a helicopter for various missions. Having a completely unstealthy helicopter sitting abovedecks is definitely going to get someone spotted...but that's if the abovedecks is not somehow manipulated so that the aircraft are not "visible" to radars while stored outside.

Now, the main limitations of the Visby is its speed and range (a pair of factors also not mentioned in that source). For instance, a comparable-technology endowed corvette, the Israeli Sa'ar 5, has a slightly lower 'top' speed (33 to the Visby's claimed 35) but a significantly (for tactical matters) higher "cruising" speed (20 vs the Visby's 15...or, in simpler terms, it takes 25% less time for the Saar 5 to cover the same terrain or to travel a required distance...the "top" speeds on most ships are only employed during emergencies and are not sustainable for a significant amount of time.

The armaments of the two vessels are comparable but the Saar 5 has a range of 4000 nm and boasts stealthy capabilities (slightly above US recent cruisers and destroyers). It can also store a helicopter within a hangar to reduce issues with the helicopter's use...the Visby can carry out "covered" repair duties, but that requires that a specialized 'lifted platform' system be used...and this can only be used for one aircraft at a time...when the trouble is not taken to lower the helicopter (as would be the case, for most of the repair and maintenance time), the work crews are forced to foray onto the exposed deck, where even their small forms will appear brightly on the screen of surface-radar operators. Unfortunately, few sources on the Visby mention any range...while that is a 'standard' specification provided with most other ships. From its size, the Visby likely has a lower range than the Saar 5.

More Visby (http://www.kockums.se/SurfaceVessels/visby.html).

Now how do the Visby-class's stealth features stack up against the SOCSt2's?

A PDF available at the above link denotes the following features incorporated into the design of the Visby for low-RCS results:

Shaping, i.e. flat hull sides inclined outwards and
flat superstructure and mast surfaces, arranged
into truncated pyramids.
Structure of sandwich-construction carbon fibre
reinforced plastic (CFRP) for good conductivity
and the necessary flatness, i.e. without the
"starved horse pattern" associated with steel and
aluminium plating on a supporting framework.
Concealed installation of weapons, sensors,
sonars, cranes, boats etc.
All external doors and hatches of "smart" design,
with conductive coaming.
Stealth adaptation and platform integration of all
above-deck equipment.
Use of flush-mounted, cavity-backed, miniature
and retractable antennas.
Use of frequency selective surfaces (FSS) for
covering some antennas.
Limited use of radar absorbent material (RAM).
Special attention is given to the design of external
details, e.g. air intakes/outlets, windows etc.
RCS analysis using advanced prediction tools.

Of those features, the SOCSt2 incorporates most of those features...but it also bears certain improvements that he Visby cannnot boast.

The SOCS incorporates advanced shaping that is similar to the Visby's. This includes the shaping of the exterior surfaces to reflect radar signals away from the emitter/collector source (as a sea-based vessel, by reflecting the radar signals into the air or against the sea, there is little that land-based detectors can use to 'capture' the radar signals reflected off of the SOCS). The SOCS incorporates an enclosed mast. As a boost over the Visby, a series of radar baffles is raised about the helicopter landing zone and most of the aircraft can be optionally stored inside the vessel with only a simple maintenance action...within a few minutes of the aircraft's landing. An enclosed command deck and communications gear shields the awkward communications and defensive systems against the prying eyes of radar systems. A dedicated EW/ECM system allows the SOCSt2 to further expand its' effective range by blocking effective enemy detection of the vessel.
The SOCSt2 uses a wide range of synthetic and carbon-fiber based materials to reduce its signature in all ranges.
As employed in the GINY (of Western Asia) aircraft carrier designs, the SOCSt2 has retractable panels to protect the weapons systems and these can be quickly, automatically, removed to allow for the firing of extended-range anti-ship missiles...which no "offensive" stealth ship like the Visby can do. The Visby bears a single stealthy gun while the SOCS uses several defensive guns, which bear a stealth-by-design shell. The vessels accompanying the SOCSt2 and the aircraft of the SOCS are completely concealed within the hull (dropped down on an internal cargo-lift area, then wheeled into storage) or behind large radarbaffles...which also prevent aircrews from becoming surface-radar 'beacons.'
The SOCSt2 also uses flat, phased-array radar panels to achieve superior radar capabilities without making itself 'visible' to enemy radars.

Now, the SOCS bears many of the Visby's stealth systems as well as a few 'tricks' of its own.

---

Part II: Assault Ship vs. the SOCS type 2

This is the part of the statement that, perhaps, I was most confused by. How large is a SOCSt2? The only simple answer is MUCH smaller than "Assault Carriers" or "Assault ships."

Now, a point-by-point comparison of the two....

Size of Crew
The SOCSt2 has a total manning (Ship Crew, Operations Support, Soldiers, Command Crew) of about 360 persons.

An LHD-1 Wasp Class has the following listed crew numbers (from GlobalSecurity.org):
104 officers + 1,004 enlisted Ships Company (1,108)
1,075 Ships Company crewmembers
1,600-1,894 Marine Detachment embarked troops

A total of about 3,780...or over 10 TIMES the manning size of the SOCSt2.

Internal Capacity
As stated, the SOCSt2 has NO LCAC capacity and could ...an LHD-1 bears 3 LCACs in addition to several small watercraft, up to 4 or more M1A1 Abrams MBTs, and a large number of other heavy weaponry for an MEU. The largest land craft that can be commonly deployed from a SOCSt2 is an LAV or APC...each about 1/3 to 1/4 the mass of an MBT and capable of being borne by an H-53, H-46/7, or H-92 transport helicopter.

The ships and aircraft borne by the SOCS tend to be very lightweight (the Desert Raider is little larger than a "dune buggy" and the Militarized ATVs are not significantly larger than a civilian ATV...the Zodiacs and RIB craft can be stowed in a significantly smaller space than conventional boats of those sizes) whereas the LHDs tend to bear numerous 5-ton trucks and the like. The passenger capacity, as mentioned above, is significantly smaller than that of an LHD.

Aircraft
An LHD-1 bears between 25 and 40 aircraft (mix of rotary- and fixed-wing) with an on-deck portion of painted and prepped launching and landing spaces numbering at about 8. The aircraft can all be stowed internally.

The SOCSt2 bears a total of 6 medium-sized helicopters and a few UAVs in a "normal" mission deployment. Most of those have to be stored internally during launch times, but not all of the aircraft can be stowed there, and the total number of helicopter spots numbers at a wonderfully large 3....with 2 capable of being launched at once without issue. There is no manned, fixed-wing aircraft capability beyond being able to land STOVL aircraft like Harriers and JSFs in emergency/special situations...they have to be off-loaded at port or with the assistance of larger vessels.

General Form
The LHDs follow the same design ethic of the LHAs, which follow the Forrestal/Nimitz design of a large, flat-topped aircraft carrier.


The SOCSt2 is based on a much more versatile and efficient (and low-slung) hull form--that of the Hybridized catamaran/trimaran hull ("wave-splitting catamaran").

A Basic HSV (http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ship/images/hsv-x1_020403-n-0780f-001.jpg). Exemplifies the HSV/SOCS line, the general basis for the SOCS (without many of the stealth features). Another view (http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ship/images/200210215a_hr.jpg). NOTE: The HSV-X1, which the SOCS is based upon and which is imaged in the supplied links, is a bit less than twice the length of the Visby and has about 1/3 that of the Visby's crew. At 30knots, it has a range greater than 4000nm with a top /sustainable/ speed over 45knots. It can also carry about 8 Medium-sized helicopters...and a good number of loaded semi-type transport vehicles. The SOCSt2 is a bit smaller than that design but bears the same engines and the same powerful systems. A size comparison, to a fleet oiler (http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ship/images/hmas_jervis-bay_refuel.jpg).

As a visual comparison, The Wasp-Class (http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ship/lhd-1-gallery.htm).

---------

Now, how is this a ridiculously large ship? It is both stealthy and large enough to support maritime operations as suggested in a quite autonomous mode.

Another point to make: stealth only goes so far...the SOCSt2 is meant to, primarily, land SOF teams...not to look pretty and impress its friends. And, if the fecal matter ever impacts the rotating air-moving device, it has the fire-power and speed to escape almost any bad situation.

As it is, it is ridiculous to assume that all vessels are based on the obsolete design of the USN's aircraft carriers and assault vessels...which were produced without consideration of the lower-slung and faster trimaran and catamaran hull forms (most are simply based on the previous model with some variation...the basic hull form for the Nimitz-class is about 40 years old...the first carriers came into being about 80 years ago).

*bumpity bump bump*

Would like 1 silencer for naval special forces. Are you still exporting them?

2 bill even if you throw in the aircraft and help train my crew.

Would like 1 silencer for naval special forces. Are you still exporting them?

2 bill even if you throw in the aircraft and help train my crew.

yours will be the first equipped with MH-73's instead of MH-60's for Helo's

http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=75982&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=

*Bump*