NationStates Jolt Archive

The current SDI model has many short comings.
the largest of these is the limited atmospheric use.
the only way to solve this would be a multi frequency beam alternately burning a hole in the atmosphere and destroying the target.
This will be attempted in a joint effort by Belem, Dark Terror, and the patentholder Acrena.
this Space platform will utelize custom built lasers of a Chemical and crystal cross for high and medium altitude use. Also a Gas laser of a low frequency will be used for low altitude purposes.
The entire station is self sufficient for 120 days and needs to have the chemical and gas stores refueled only after 10,000 firings.
due to the nature of the endeavor the system's criticals must be constantly maintained for they only have a lifespan of 50,000 firings.

Specs
fusion powered using a hydrodynamic fusion reactor
life support backup systems and emergency ejection systems
three custom built chemical/crystal lasers
1 custom built gas laser
over 5 years worth of active non-life sustaining supplies including thruster fuel.
1 targeting prism plus replacement on board
4 supercomputers

in extreme situations, the station may fire all 10,000 times within the span of 1 hour. this is however a very good excuse to do repairs and maintenace.

the project cost is still being debated but production will start within the year and completion within a 5-10 year span

Upon Compleation of the station Belem will deactivate half of its SDI grid to lower costs but will keep them in orbit just in case they need to reactivated in an emergency.

We fear that this SDI system will lead to a new nuclear arms race and throw the concept of mutually assured destruction on its head, which has protected the world from nuclear devastation for decades. Should the nations involved decide to proceed with its project, Alvarezistan and other concerned countries may have no choice but to upgrade our ICBM arsenal and to develop our own nuclear defense shield.

Im funding the project here (unlike Acrena amd Belem I know little about SDI type tech).


Get over it Alvarez.

We fear that this SDI system will lead to a new nuclear arms race and throw the concept of mutually assured destruction on its head, which has protected the world from nuclear devastation for decades. Should the nations involved decide to proceed with its project, Alvarezistan and other concerned countries may have no choice but to upgrade our ICBM arsenal and to develop our own nuclear defense shield.
this station is made to reduce the amount of satelites in orbit and is as much a weapon as a SAAM or an Aegis cruiser.

I feel left out :wink:

I feel left out :wink:
Well let you in on it if you want.. calmly wire us $5 bil

Luporum is in on the project.

I feel left out :wink:
Well let you in on it if you want.. calmly wire us $5 bil
this station will be quite a lot more in the end though
this money will be used for the research needed

Production has begun on the project the time to completetion is 5-10 years

Excellent.

The Entire R&D for the first Station can top out at almost 10 trillion dollars although not likely to reach that. A subsequent station will be considerably less.

Excellent.Why do you care?
:roll:

Excellent.Why do you care?
:roll:
Stop bothering the n00bs
its beneath some of us by now. at least wait till he has his first hundred posts

Oh, and excellent.

Acrena, check your TGrams.

Shut up before I have to convince drum gods that youre worth annexing.

Shut up before I have to convince drum gods that youre worth annexing.

*yawns* you talk too much... :roll:

Not to mention we could just annex Acrena.

ANd ACrenas an RL friend of belem just in case youre too hopeful.

Not to mention we could just annex Acrena.

ANd ACrenas an RL friend of belem just in case youre too hopeful.

What part of you talk too much dont you understand?

What part of I could care less dont you?

What part of I could care less dont you?

Probably the "I could care less" part. I think "I couldn't care less" would be more appropriate.

Youre just bursting with intelligence arent you?
:roll:

Youre just bursting with intelligence arent you?
:roll:

I'm flattered that you used one of my own insults to insult me, well, not as much flattered as laughing at you. :lol:

YOu don't know what irony is do you?

YOu don't know what irony is do you?

Sure I do, that's how you get the wrinkles out of your clothes.

Specs
fusion powered using a hydrodynamic fusion reactor
life support backup systems and emergency ejection systems
three custom built chemical/crystal lasers
1 custom built gas laser
over 5 years worth of active non-life sustaining supplies including thruster fuel.
1 targeting prism plus replacement on board
4 supercomputers

in extreme situations, the station may fire all 10,000 times within the span of 1 hour. this is however a very good excuse to do repairs and maintenace.

Fusion power? 3 chemical lasers? Unless this is future tech, this thing is going to be MASSIVE. (in fact, isn't fusion future tech anyways? We haven't developed a safe way to do fusion yet as far as I know). The 10,000/hour would be 3 1/2 per second per laser... questionable.

So I'm assuming this is future tech, not usable in RPs against modern armies?

Its 2010 tech.

If you dont recognize it we wont recognize your ICBMs.

its modern tech because you can contain a fusion reaction with moderntech its just expensive and hard to do.

Its 2010 tech.

If you dont recognize it we wont recognize your ICBMs.

Chemical lasers and their components are the size of a large house, at least. I can see the size going down a bit in 6-7 years, but the chemical tanks where the reaction occurs are still going to be huge. Even if it was doable, it would cost a fortune and I would guess 30 space flights to get it all up there and even more to keep it in LEO.

And Belem, since when have we been able to contain and draw electricity from a fusion reaction? I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure we haven't. A link would be nice.

i think u can do it in a lab environment with magnets and plasma.

Im not the science guy though so youll have to wait till Acrena gets back on.

Ok I didnt want it to come to this but I have to point out the falws in your system. It's a complete godmode.

The wavelength of an HF laser is 3.7, way above the alloted wavelengths that would not be absorbed by the vapor. And you cannot burn the hole through the atmosphere, the power required to do that would need a laser too big to fit on a satellite. And no gas laser is strong enough to perform the same as an HF laser, meaning it wouldnt be able to shoot down an ICBM, much less reach any inside the atmosphere.

And this; The entire station is self sufficient for 120 days and needs to have the chemical and gas stores refueled only after 10,000 firings.
due to the nature of the endeavor the system's criticals must be constantly maintained for they only have a lifespan of 50,000 firings.

Is not only a complete godmode it is logistically impossible.

Also, the first fusion reactor will be made by 2008, this reactor is at least 10ft by 10ft. And it has yet to be seen if it will work or not, seeing as how the highest amount of energy returned out of the energy spent in a fusion reaction is 86% it is unlikely this next one will work. Much less be small enough to fit on a satellite.

Your satellites are begining to sound like space stations, and if they are they are far to expensive to be able to cover a large amount of ICMB's.

And there is no way the laser will be able to fire 10,000 times in the span of an hour.

This even tops Belem's SDI system on a scale of godmodeing.

its modern tech because you can contain a fusion reaction with moderntech its just expensive and hard to do.
sure;what you,numbskull,don't realise is that you get only a 69% power return,and those are the latest experimental "successes".that means you only recover 69% of the nergy needed to start the reaction,so fusion ain't gonna power anything.

[quote=Belem]its modern tech because you can contain a fusion reaction with moderntech its just expensive and hard to do.
sure;what you,numbskull,don't realise is that you get only a 69% power return,and those are the latest experimental "successes".that means you only recover 69% of the nergy needed to start the reaction,so fusion ain't gonna power anything.[/quote

dood. i never said i knew how they worked so no need for insults. I even posted i dont know the scientific stuff behind it and Acrena would post it later.

then the consider the "numbskull" part to be aimed at acrena.

Heres what Acrena told me to say since his internet is down:

three things

1. this is an HF laser. An HF laser is a gas laser. And research in gas lasers have incrased signficantly since 1997. We are not using a frequency that is absorbed as well into the atmosphere. Rather we created a custom laser with a frequency that is specifically not absorbed by the atmosphere.

2. The tokomak reactor can be sustained using a 100% pressure reaqction. This can be sustained for up to ten years. Depending on the size of the reactor it will be able to produce larger and larger amounts of eneergy exponitially.

3. yes this is a very expensive project and will take over 30 space floights and this is the reason for the extremely large price that could sustain all of africa.

SDI stands for?

sattelite defense innitiave

stupid

Walten is going to provide funding in exhange for defense of his earth based colonies

Heres what Acrena told me to say since his internet is down:

three things

1. this is an HF laser. An HF laser is a gas laser. And research in gas lasers have incrased signficantly since 1997. We are not using a frequency that is absorbed as well into the atmosphere. Rather we created a custom laser with a frequency that is specifically not absorbed by the atmosphere.

2. The tokomak reactor can be sustained using a 100% pressure reaqction. This can be sustained for up to ten years. Depending on the size of the reactor it will be able to produce larger and larger amounts of eneergy exponitially.

3. yes this is a very expensive project and will take over 30 space floights and this is the reason for the extremely large price that could sustain all of africa.
toroïdal tokamaks(the best we have/will have for at least 30 years) have nowhere near this performance level...they can be sustained,but you recover less energy than you put in.The reactors youre using are anticipating 2050 tech...in short,youre system won't exist until way after most nations here launch there ICBMs.

Heres what Acrena told me to say since his internet is down:

three things

1. this is an HF laser. An HF laser is a gas laser. And research in gas lasers have incrased signficantly since 1997. We are not using a frequency that is absorbed as well into the atmosphere. Rather we created a custom laser with a frequency that is specifically not absorbed by the atmosphere.

And HF is a chemical laser. It operates on a chemical reaction. Just because gasses are used to create the reaction doesnt make it a gas laser. And an HF laser will always operate near 3.7, you cant modify a laser's frequency. Just like the color red will always be at the same wavelength, and microwaves will always be at the same wavelength.

2. The tokomak reactor can be sustained using a 100% pressure reaqction. This can be sustained for up to ten years. Depending on the size of the reactor it will be able to produce larger and larger amounts of eneergy exponitially.

Again, if this is a fusion reactor it is certainly not 2010 tech.

3. yes this is a very expensive project and will take over 30 space floights and this is the reason for the extremely large price that could sustain all of africa.

Only 30? Well, expect to be only able to shoot down 30 ICBM's then.

Bobaria wishes to donate 1,000,000,000(I'd donate more but I don't have much money) and asks for nothing in return.

Walten- thats ironic :lol:

Walten- thats ironic :lol:

Did you steal Waltens password? Cause last time I checked he hated you, and would never go into a project like this with you.

um abotu frequency and color. I know for color you can change a lasers color. They sell green laser pointers. Dont know really what the difference is other then that you can see the beam on green laser.

No hes also unignored me, we still hate each other but we both want SDI.

I AM NOT USING A LASER FROM 1997. THE COMPANY THAT MANUFACTURES THE HF LASER SAYS IT IS A CO2 LASER. THE COMPANY THAT MAKES THE HF LASER CAME OUT WITH A LASER ALMOST 2 1/2 TIMES AS POWERFUL.
http://www.franeklaser.com/rofin-sinar.htm
incompetent
i have explained this to you over several forums and you still wont accept that it IS six years since the papers you are giving me have been made. I will not accept any information from you from a non-govrnment website or a website that cannot be contacted for purchase orders.

If the rate of alpha-particle heating equals the rate at which energy leaks from the plasma then ignition has been achieved and a self-sustaining fusion burn occurs.
Thus the goal in fusion energy production is to generate plasmas with sufficiently high densities and sufficiently high temperatures to achieve ignition. In inertial confinement fusion, this goal is achieved by compressing a very small mass of fusion fuel, a few millionths of a kilogram, to densities 30 times the density of lead, while simultaneously heating the center of the fuel to the hundred-million degree Celsius temperature needed to ignite a propagating fusion burn.
http://www.nuc.berkeley.edu/thyd/icf/economics.html
the diffrence is that we are not cutting funding like the U.S. and other countries.

I AM NOT USING A LASER FROM 1997. THE COMPANY THAT MANUFACTURES THE HF LASER SAYS IT IS A CO2 LASER. THE COMPANY THAT MAKES THE HF LASER CAME OUT WITH A LASER ALMOST 2 1/2 TIMES AS POWERFUL.
http://www.franeklaser.com/rofin-sinar.htm
incompetent
i have explained this to you over several forums and you still wont accept that it IS six years since the papers you are giving me have been made. I will not accept any information from you from a non-govrnment website or a website that cannot be contacted for purchase orders.

HF lasers are Hydrogen Fluorine lasers, that company is just stupid enough to call it an HF laser. And Globalsecurity is a much more compitent website than that one. If you are seriously claiming globalsecurity is a incompetetent website than you are certainly not one to insult my intelligence.

And the frequency of high frequency lasers which are the one's you are talking about is still above the wavelengths that can pass through vapor which is about about 1.01-1.4 the laser you are talking about I beleive is between 2.4 and 2.8μm, so, like a hydrogen fluorine laser, would not be able to pass through the atmosphere. :roll:

Not to mention the fact that this laser is very weak and would dissapate to a degree where it barely generated any heat by the time it got to the ICBM. I have several articles backing up what I said, an HF (hydrogen fluorine) chemical laser is the only one we know of so far to make it work on an SDI satellite. Gas lasers are too comlicated and weak to work on an SDI system and Crystal lasers overheat too fast.

If the rate of alpha-particle heating equals the rate at which energy leaks from the plasma then ignition has been achieved and a self-sustaining fusion burn occurs.
Thus the goal in fusion energy production is to generate plasmas with sufficiently high densities and sufficiently high temperatures to achieve ignition. In inertial confinement fusion, this goal is achieved by compressing a very small mass of fusion fuel, a few millionths of a kilogram, to densities 30 times the density of lead, while simultaneously heating the center of the fuel to the hundred-million degree Celsius temperature needed to ignite a propagating fusion burn.
http://www.nuc.berkeley.edu/thyd/icf/economics.html
the diffrence is that we are not cutting funding like the U.S. and other countries.

This is not what you could have got doen by 2010 technology, this is what will be done in RL by 2010 technlogy. If it was what you could have get done by 2010 tech then resi would be able to use his larger ball inside a smaller ball technology and craft that run across the ocean floor.

See here (http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/report/crs/91-039.htm) for information on when fusion will get done.

allmost all of your posts have the word godmod and your just burstig with intelligence arn't you
if you will continue to be so disruptive and jelous that belem and dark terror are actualy RP ing in their own demented ways, be thankful i am not in the DOD NADICK DARPA etc...
so far i have not seen you cooperate with anybody and if you dont want to be ignored please change your pessemistic attitude or i will find everybody i can that does not enjoy your attidude and declare war.

allmost all of your posts have the word godmod and your just burstig with intelligence arn't you
if you will continue to be so disruptive and jelous that belem and dark terror are actualy RP ing in their own demented ways, be thankful i am not in the DOD NADICK DARPA etc...
so far i have not seen you cooperate with anybody and if you dont want to be ignored please change your pessemistic attitude or i will find everybody i can that does not enjoy your attidude and declare war.
(pop a quick tgram to drum gods :D )

What is your infatuation with papers from 1997?
and we will be appropriating more than a billion to the project significantly increasing the construction time. AS I HAVE SAID MANY TIMES BEFORE!!!

allmost all of your posts have the word godmod and your just burstig with intelligence arn't you
if you will continue to be so disruptive and jelous that belem and dark terror are actualy RP ing in their own demented ways, be thankful i am not in the DOD NADICK DARPA etc...
so far i have not seen you cooperate with anybody and if you dont want to be ignored please change your pessemistic attitude or i will find everybody i can that does not enjoy your attidude and declare war.

It's not a pessimistic attitude, what you are doing is not physically possible. Much less possible by 2010.

What is your infatuation with papers from 1997?
and we will be appropriating more than a billion to the project significantly increasing the construction time. AS I HAVE SAID MANY TIMES BEFORE!!!

None of this has anything to do with construction time. A high frequency laser is just that, it has a high frequency. One that is too high to pass through water vapor. And fusion is not real life 2010 tech, much less fusion reactors small enough to fit on a satellite.

I said it beofre and I will say it again, when you are saying 2010 tech, it is REAL LIFE 2010, not waht you could have got done by 2010 with your nation. If we were claiming that anything is possible by 2010, so people cna just shoot down your satellites with space fleets.

(pop a quick tgram to drum gods :D )

Wasn't he ignored by a bunch of people for trying to start a war with somone because he was an atheist?

Space fleets with their bullshit wormhole drives will NVER be possible.

I declare war on the basis of arguing against the government reality and everybody else who does not agree that humans can andvance.
This war is based on a quasi religous conflict of ideas.
idea is, that the universe has gotten beyond the date of 1997.
:evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:

Space fleets with their bullshit wormhole drives will NVER be possible.

Who said you need to use wormholes?

I declare war on the basis of arguing against the government reality and everybody else who does not agree that humans can andvance.
This war is based on a quasi religous conflict of ideas.
idea is, that the universe has gotten beyond the date of 1997.
:evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:

If you're going to declare war you need to make a new thread. Be prepared to hear a bunch of people tell you that you can't declare a war for OOC reasons.

No its best to convnve Drum Gods he needs to expand his empire :twisted:


After all did Kuwait ignore Saddam?

No its best to convnve Drum Gods he needs to expand his empire :twisted:


After all did Kuwait ignore Saddam?

HAH! Your preaching to me about not unreasonably ignoring? :lol:

Besides, it's a freeform roleplay, you don't need a reason to ignore, but I reackon I can take on drum gods. He won't be able to use puppets though.

No its best to convnve Drum Gods he needs to expand his empire :twisted:


After all did Kuwait ignore Saddam?

HAH! Your preaching to me about not unreasonably ignoring? :lol:

Besides, it's a freeform roleplay, you don't need a reason to ignore, but I reackon I can take on drum gods. He won't be able to use puppets though.
Without puppets, you forgot he has the pop bug and is a january country, hell still own you. Literally.

OOC: just nuke him using SSBNs. No one knows whos SSBNs they are. they just are there and launch and disappear.

OOC: just nuke him using SSBNs. No one knows whos SSBNs they are. they just are there and launch and disappear.
Hmm....

good idea.

No its best to convnve Drum Gods he needs to expand his empire :twisted:


After all did Kuwait ignore Saddam?

HAH! Your preaching to me about not unreasonably ignoring? :lol:

Besides, it's a freeform roleplay, you don't need a reason to ignore, but I reackon I can take on drum gods. He won't be able to use puppets though.
Without puppets, you forgot he has the pop bug and is a january country, hell still own you. Literally.

Pop bug doesnt give you more to RP with, it jsut means he's a godmoder who in reality only has 1.1 billion.

OOC: just nuke him using SSBNs. No one knows whos SSBNs they are. they just are there and launch and disappear.
Hmm....

good idea.

Coughskynetcough, and if the nukes are just randomly launched I can ignore them, like Allanea, you, and many other people do.

skynet isnt all powerful. and whos to say that it just wasnt a secretive pre emptive strike.

skynet isnt all powerful. and whos to say that it just wasnt a secretive pre emptive strike.

This thread is to say. And skynet automatically sends 6000 nukes to whoever nukes me, since your SDI is half down it only protects against 2000 nukes.

skynet can nuke the ocean all it wants.

OOC: its not half down yet. I said once the station is completed it will be half down.


and it protects against 8400 incoming targets which includes margin of error.

also the nuking stuff is all OOC

OOC: its not half down yet. I said once the station is completed it will be half down.


and it protects against 8400 incoming targets which includes margin of error.

also the nuking stuff is all OOC

Liar, you always said it protects against 4000. More proof of your godmoding. And the nuking itself would be for OOC purposes, therefore I could just ignore it.

Barvaria-Studenland has a SDI grid with 50% proven accuracy against real missiles. We will help you!
OOC: Destroy balance of power? Sounds like:
http://www.penguinputnam.com/static/packages/us/tomclancy/images/cardinal.gif

The previous one protected agaisnt 4000.


Now DG with his 1.5 bil or so pop will be glad to have a new addition to his empire!

i said it protected again 4000 when I had 300.

heres how the calculations work

600x20=12000
1200x.7=8400

numbers for a 300 grid are more in like with the 4000 estimate.
300x20=6000
6000x.7=4200

I increased the number of sats after bisons got nuked. even though I ignored the nuking I knew if someone wanted to carpet nuke or me or a joint attack I would have to increase the numbers.

The previous one protected agaisnt 4000.


Now DG with his 1.5 bil or so pop will be glad to have a new addition to his empire!

1.5 with a pop bug.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, you talk too much.

OOC: and the nuking wouldnt be for OOC purposes. The government could consider you a threat to power and decide it would be better to just remove you from the playing field.

The previous one protected agaisnt 4000.


Now DG with his 1.5 bil or so pop will be glad to have a new addition to his empire!

1.5 with a pop bug.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, you talk too much.
Counting that hes conquered plenty of people IC< it evens out.

i said it protected again 4000 when I had 300.

heres how the calculations work

600x20=12000
1200x.7=8400

numbers for a 300 grid are more in like with the 4000 estimate.
300x20=6000
6000x.7=4200

I increased the number of sats after bisons got nuked. even though I ignored the nuking I knew if someone wanted to carpet nuke or me or a joint attack I would have to increase the numbers.

HAHA, and I called the one before a godmode. And 300 satellites can't shoot down 4000 missiles. I already showed all my evidence, they are only above 30,000 feet for a short time. And HF (hydrogen flourine) take a while to cool down and "recharge".

The previous one protected agaisnt 4000.


Now DG with his 1.5 bil or so pop will be glad to have a new addition to his empire!

1.5 with a pop bug.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, you talk too much.
Counting that hes conquered plenty of people IC< it evens out.

No, that's puppeteering. I don't have to, nor will I recognize any puppets.

they can each fire 20 shots before they are forced to go inactive well within the means of modern technology.
so 300 times 20 is 6000 correct?
now only 70% of those shots will A) either hit or B)cause significant damage to destroy the nuke. which comes to 4200 nukes.

they can each fire 20 shots before they are forced to go inactive well within the means of modern technology.
so 300 times 20 is 6000 correct?
now only 70% of those shots will A) either hit or B)cause significant damage to destroy the nuke. which comes to 4200 nukes.

70% accuracy is too much. And 20 in a row would everheat the satellite, not even getting into how much thrust would come from the exhaust.

Then its an extremely high birthrate along with him breeding slaves.

they can each fire 20 shots before they are forced to go inactive well within the means of modern technology.
so 300 times 20 is 6000 correct?
now only 70% of those shots will A) either hit or B)cause significant damage to destroy the nuke. which comes to 4200 nukes.

70% accuracy is too much. And 20 in a row would everheat the satellite, not even getting into how much thrust would come from the exhaust.

well within the realms of possibility to have a 70% accuracy rate.

what is with you and the exuast
the satelites that were to be developed for sdi NEVER had any problem with this. Give us proof that your mythical exuast of mach 2.4 realy exists or is it a stream of air that goes at mach 2.4 and an expansion chamber will just take care of it?

OOC Belem and Dark Terror , please check your t-grams.

Look at the, "No recoil from light beams" section" (http://www.globalsecurity.org/cgi-bin/texis.cgi/webinator/search/redir.html?query=chemical+laser+exhaust&pr=default&order=r&u=http%3A//www.globalsecurity.org/space/library/report/1997/occppr02.htm)

And there is anotehr site that specifically says mach 2.4 that I am still looking for.

they can each fire 20 shots before they are forced to go inactive well within the means of modern technology.
so 300 times 20 is 6000 correct?
now only 70% of those shots will A) either hit or B)cause significant damage to destroy the nuke. which comes to 4200 nukes.

70% accuracy is too much. And 20 in a row would everheat the satellite, not even getting into how much thrust would come from the exhaust.

well within the realms of possibility to have a 70% accuracy rate.

Not when your claiming to be firing as fast as you are, much less that it is actually possible to fire 20 in a row in the time it takes for an ICBM to travel through the outer atmophere.

Is thermal blooming a problem?

thermal bloming is able to be solved by using multiple lasers in a pulsed array.

Look at the, "No recoil from light beams" section" (http://www.globalsecurity.org/cgi-bin/texis.cgi/webinator/search/redir.html?query=chemical+laser+exhaust&pr=default&order=r&u=http%3A//www.globalsecurity.org/space/library/report/1997/occppr02.htm)

And there is anotehr site that specifically says mach 2.4 that I am still looking for.
this paper is from 1997 if you want I can help you change the date on your computer.

Look at the, "No recoil from light beams" section" (http://www.globalsecurity.org/cgi-bin/texis.cgi/webinator/search/redir.html?query=chemical+laser+exhaust&pr=default&order=r&u=http%3A//www.globalsecurity.org/space/library/report/1997/occppr02.htm)

And there is anotehr site that specifically says mach 2.4 that I am still looking for.
this paper is from 1997 if you want I can help you change the date on your computer.

Yes it is from 1997, it is just as relevent today. It also states taht if the gas is not shot out quickly it will melt the laser itself. It's the same paper that you keep seeing that is from 1997. You must be really desperate if your trying to dismiss my evidence jsut because it is 5 years old.

6 years old

windows 98 just came out then

6 years old

Yes, 6. And your point is?

windows 98 just came out then

And I suppose laser magically got cooler when you have no proof of this happening at all. If you can find an article that says that the exhaust problem was solved somehow I might believe you. But so far, I have evidence and you dont.

In all due respect a blue or green laser did not even exist in 1997 let alone 2000. Also there are better lasers to an SDI purpose than the HF laser. At the time that was the most powerful rated at almost 8000 watts of through put

In all due respect a blue or green laser did not even exist in 1997 let alone 2000. Also there are better lasers to an SDI purpose than the HF laser. At the time that was the most powerful rated at almost 8000 watts of through put

In other words, you dont have any evidence. I'm glad you finally admitted your laser isn't possible, much less by 2010.

there are super conductors today that if exposed to the cold of space will produce the meiissner effect. They had no such things in 1997 6 years ago.

IMBICEL IT DOES EXIST IN 2003 OUR CURRENT TIME!

there are super conductors today that if exposed to the cold of space will produce the meiissner effect. They had no such things in 1997 6 years ago.

You keep talking yet I hear no evidence.

there are super conductors today that if exposed to the cold of space will produce the meiissner effect. They had no such things in 1997 6 years ago.

You keep talking yet I hear no evidence.
http://hypertextbook.com/facts/2002/MichaelNg.shtml

If this is not a fact then I will Indiscriminantly ignore the rest of your ignorant comments.

That has nothing to do with your satellites. I'm talking about evidence that the exhaust system changed.

Isnt this fun: watching someone with a major in physics own TIsonica.

Acrena- play his own game and report him for spamming :)

From this point foreward any comments made by the nation of Tisonica will hearby be counted as unwelcome and a reason for war.

your satellites won't work, you have no given any evidence of them working and if you really have a degree in physics I pity your teacher. I keep giving my proof but you have yet to give any in favor of your case.

OOC dark terror, could i report him for using the word exuast every time i RP with him in a forum that leads to an SDI and then ignoring all information that is rebuttal?

OOC dark terror, could i report him for using the word exuast every time i RP with him in a forum that leads to an SDI and then ignoring all information that is rebuttal?

You would then most likely be deleted for flaming and I doubt I would get any punishment. You keep talking about information when you have not yet given any proof to support your argument. Either give proof or stop claiming a nonexistant laser.

tisconica all you seeem to talk about his exhaust tell me is there a college that gives out degrees in just exhaustology? if so how long is the cost 30 minutes and giving you some articles from the middile to late 90s?

tgrams Acrena.

Be patient. If he ignores us Im sure well all cry.

HES ALREADY GIVEN YOU PROOF FORM NEWER SORUES THAN THE 1997 STUFF YOU POST, DIMWIT!

Just ignore him
we will simply not RP with him if he will not accept the fact he can be wrong.

tisconica all you seeem to talk about his exhaust tell me is there a college that gives out degrees in just exhaustology? if so how long is the cost 30 minutes and giving you some articles from the middile to late 90s?

If you have nothing to contribute with your post than do not post, that's spamming.

tgrams Acrena.

Be patient. If he ignores us Im sure well all cry.

HES ALREADY GIVEN YOU PROOF FORM NEWER SORUES THAN THE 1997 STUFF YOU POST, DIMWIT!

He did not give a source that had anything to do with this, he gave one on superconductors. Superconductors are irrelivant because we are talking about the expellation of exhaust.

Please your messages are cuasing strife within a peaceful if evil RP

Dark terror how Many countries would agree that if you ignore the cut you still bleed?

WHo says aye to a little lynch mob against Tisonica?

AYe

aye
what about making him like Zaibok

Please your messages are cuasing strife within a peaceful if evil RP

Are you going to give any evidence or are you just going to pretend you don't hear me. If you do that your SDI is basically null, meaning it doesnt work.

It'd be a waste of trillions of dollars but if your really that stubborn that you wanna waste time and money then by all means go ahead.

Austrin-Ontis disbelieves SDI because of a totally different reason, the programming complexity required to co-ordinate it is virtually impossible, and would likely take a simply vast amount of money, time and technology to even come close to working. Even then, it would have to be constantly updated to account for new warhead and decoy configurations and would not be able to be fully tested, resulting in a distinctly unreliable performance.

You might claim your tech is 2010, but if your SDI software is even slightly reliable then this is future-tech, since Clean-Room programming techniques are highly unlikely to have been implemented effectively by 2010.

So we ARE spending a lot of time and money on it!

If any of my comment s come out as insulting please forgive me for i have been under a bit of frustration.
Are you sure the program cant track at least 100 targets even with 4 computers?

We could also test in computer simulations and numerous scale model tests.

So we ARE spending a lot of time and money on it!

Wasting, not spending. It's the equivilent of spending trillion trying to teach a hamster to do calculus.

So we ARE spending a lot of time and money on it!

Doesn't help. I did say you'd still get an unreliable system whatever you did. It was estimated that the SDI programming would be at least ten times the size of the next biggest program. Combine that, the insane complexity of the operations and the fact you can't test it and you'll produce something which is in no way worth the investment. You'll get a system which works some of the time at best, whilst crippling your respective economies

It would be the equivalent for my economy of a nuclear arms race.

AnI dont use most of my $4 tril military budget.

And most computer programs can and are patched for bugs and are made extremely reliable during the first year. and in what way did you get the idea that we will not be spending money on tests?

you realize the cost is over 10 years and spread out to 5 nations.

Will you be posting your evidence soon or can I assume that you are indeed continueing your project to teach calculus to a hamster, erm... create your massive SDI system.

We could also test in computer simulations and numerous scale model tests.

Computer simulations are very bad for testing, since you can miss problems from the both the system itself and in the simulation program, giving you twice as much chance of failure. Roll on Star Trek when computer simulations are actually useful...

Scale model tests just aren't going to cut it either. You would need to test it against a full scale assault repeatedly to anaylse the faults, which simple cannot be done.

Also, you should bear in mind that you do now know the technologies that will be used in enemy nukes, meaning you must make an open ended system, which further increases it's unreliablilty.

and who is to say that one of these computers are not on the ground calculating for the satelite and then the satelite only has to fire and go down a queue list. http://www.top500.org/list/2003/06/

http://www.top500.org/list/2003/06/

And most computer programs can and are patched for bugs and are made extremely reliable during the first year. and in what way did you get the idea that we will not be spending money on tests?

Most computer programs are simple. This is not

Most computer programs can be tested effectively. This cannot

Most computer programs are allowed to fail from time to time. This program cannot

Sorry, this is something I've been looking at quite a lot, and the conclusion is that an SDI system is simply not viable without programming techniques that we are unable to implement, and even then it would have no guarantee of success.

But ultimately, you only have to persuade people you use it on, not me.

one program UNIX it tracks every major airplane in the sky in every control tower in the U.S.

and who is to say that one of these computers are not on the ground calculating for the satelite and then the satelite only has to fire and go down a queue list. http://www.top500.org/list/2003/06/

Doesn't matter. I'm not argueing the hardware angle (although that opens up a whole list of other problems), merely the software one. I'm assuming you don't have any hardware problems and have sufficient resources to run this monster program.

I'm just saying you can't make the program work in the first place.

I posted the major supercomuters of the world becuase they do track things more complex than Missiles and aeroplanes

one program UNIX it tracks every major airplane in the sky in every control tower in the U.S.

Airplanes do not travel at mach 16, they do not fragment into multiple smaller airplanes, only some of which are real and they are not designed specifically to defeat detection mechanisms.

Okay, take it from me as a computer scientist. You are not going to be able to sell this as modern-era tech and have it do what you want because of these computer issues.

I posted the major supercomuters of the world becuase they do track things more complex than Missiles and aeroplanes

It's not just a question of scale, it's a matter of time, adaptability and zero-percent failure as well. The hardware is fine, you just can't make the software.

one program UNIX it tracks every major airplane in the sky in every control tower in the U.S.

Airplanes do not travel at mach 16, they do not fragment into multiple smaller airplanes, only some of which are real and they are not designed specifically to defeat detection mechanisms.

Okay, take it from me as a computer scientist. You are not going to be able to sell this as modern-era tech and have it do what you want because of these computer issues.

SDI takes out ICBMS before MIRVs break off. and its too costly to launch dummy ICBMS

Is it that you don't have any evidence or that your too lazy to give it Arcena?

what is a software scientist?

I am not asking for personal information but just OOC i have never heard of that term used before :?

what is a software scientist?

Computer science is effectively the study of the general forms and methods which underlie programming languages, which is apparently supposed to make learning the individual languages easier (it does - a bit). There's a bit more complexity to it, but that;s the fundamentally it. As part of my course I did a study of the programming required to operate the american 'star wars' SDI program. I used to like SDI and think it would be cool but the details I found out about it put me off completely. It's a pipedream, and pratcially everyone attached to the American project knows it. There were even a number of statements from scientists who had quit the project because it was simply impossible but the military wouldn't take no for an answer.

SDI is something which is going to stay in the realm of science fiction for a good long time.

I am not asking for personal information but just OOC i have never heard of that term used before :?

No problem. It might be a term only used in the UK

i will use AWACS phalanx anti missile systems and the aegis system as an opening rebuttal, since all of these systems can succesfully track fragmenting warheads and a faster computer will be able to track faster missiles.

Anyway, why in the hell does everyone use ICBMs anyway? ICBMs suck, they are hideously expensive and not all that good. Use ALCMs, thye are infintely cheaper and incredibly hard to stop. Oh, and btw...SDI finds it almost impossible to track ALCMs.

dont you dare explain to them about that. How can any of us intellectuals reign supreme if you give away all our secrets?

dont you dare explain to them about that. How can any of us intellectuals reign supreme if you give away all our secrets?

Hehe. Well I won't explain any further then. Basically, you could create an SDI system capable of shooting down some ICBMs of a concentrated attack, but you couldn't really co-ordinate well between SDI platforms so you couldn't guarantee catching them all. The system would be next to useless against practically all non-ICBM nuclear deployment systems, but I guess it could take the sting out of a n00b assault. Though don't expect to stop everything, I think around 50% is realistic.

I gues the big question is:

Is it worth the money you'd have to spend to have it? Remembering of course that the maintainance is going to be a heavy burden too, certainly limiting your other military expedniture. And spliting the burden between mulitple countries just means you have to increase coverage, so it isn't that much cheaper.

Anyway, why in the hell does everyone use ICBMs anyway? ICBMs suck, they are hideously expensive and not all that good. Use ALCMs, thye are infintely cheaper and incredibly hard to stop. Oh, and btw...SDI finds it almost impossible to track ALCMs.

Cause you can shoot down the Jet that's trying to send it. Although my Vesiduan Core bombs (which I dont much like or use I just got them from my region founder) are in ALCM's.

Anyway, why in the hell does everyone use ICBMs anyway? ICBMs suck, they are hideously expensive and not all that good. Use ALCMs, thye are infintely cheaper and incredibly hard to stop. Oh, and btw...SDI finds it almost impossible to track ALCMs.

Cause you can shoot down the Jet that's trying to send it. Although my Vesiduan Core bombs (which I dont much like or use I just got them from my region founder) are in ALCM's.

Shoting them down is hard, considering the range is tens of thousands of kilometres. They don't have to go anywhere near your nation at all

Anyway, why in the hell does everyone use ICBMs anyway? ICBMs suck, they are hideously expensive and not all that good. Use ALCMs, thye are infintely cheaper and incredibly hard to stop. Oh, and btw...SDI finds it almost impossible to track ALCMs.

Cause you can shoot down the Jet that's trying to send it. Although my Vesiduan Core bombs (which I dont much like or use I just got them from my region founder) are in ALCM's.

Shoting them down is hard, considering the range is tens of thousands of kilometres. They don't have to go anywhere near your nation at all

There is a cruis missile that goes tens of thousands of kilometers? Wow, well then I'll have to start putting some more research into that strapping a laser onto a 747 that was in Arcena's article earlier.

There is a cruis missile that goes tens of thousands of kilometers? Wow, well then I'll have to start putting some more research into that strapping a laser onto a 747 that was in Arcena's article earlier.

Actually, that's probably a bit of an exagerration, but our stock cruise missiles has a maximum effective range of about 3000 kilometres but 5-6 thousand is perfectly do-able.

IRL theres a 3000 mile ranged cruise missiles which goes mach 5 and is stealthy called AS-19 Koala.

IRL theres a 3000 mile ranged cruise missiles which goes mach 5 and is stealthy called AS-19 Koala.

The AS-19 doesnt have a 3000 mile range, try half of that. :roll:

IRL theres a 3000 mile ranged cruise missiles which goes mach 5 and is stealthy called AS-19 Koala.

The AS-19 doesnt have a 3000 mile range, try half of that. :roll:
Or was it 3000 km :oops:

The big thing is it will stop Most of an ICBM assault and not have much touble with coverage. Since all our three nations are bordering each other it can simply protect from the horizon. Also an ALCM that is faster than sound defeats the purpose of being stealthy. The subsonic cruise missiles can be detected and destroyed from the rear, specificly a tomahawk. And the great thing about putting such a large platform in space is the amount of zero g research you can do and sell out experiment time for major companies. That is the only reason for the INSS to continue after the shuttles have stopped launching.

The Station has been completed but do to the recent political climate Bisonic authorization to use the station has been denied.

MM-hmm., my scientists working on it wimply build another one, retard.

Since you have some future tech its new bisons which will skin you.

you realize it will take years to put one in orbit.

You realize Ardor can knock yours right out of orbit? He has a bigger space fleet than you and may well help me.

Also, there are lovly stealthy low flying cruise missiles.