NationStates Jolt Archive

In Kubrath's (he is a council member of the High Council of the Cult) office: "What the hell is this?!", shouted Rathan Kubrath, (in charge of Cult's intelligence and research projects) as he hits the documents on his table violently, making the paper break and wrinkle. Those documents are reports of so called "mecha activity". "When the hell did THEY do THESE?!" he shouted in anger, as he's browsing through the pictures of Valkyries and Guymelefs and reading the reports again in disbelief. He never could control his temper in situations like this. "Bring out the project concerning the Ingram! We'll start focusing more on it from this day forward! No one's going to make a fool out of me like this ever again!"

Thus the Cult's other research project, that the Cult has been working on at the same time as it has been working on the Deep One project, but with less funding and researchers, has been revealed to the public. It is a project to construct the AV-98 Ingram and mass produce it. The Ingram is a Patlabor meant for urban combat. As we have been doing this mech for the last years, and as it is rather easy to make because of its design, with the higher funding and research capability, we should be able to finish the prototype within months.

We have the more basic parts of the mecha ready, but we are having hard time with the cockpit. Even with these problems, we will finish the mecha in time. With some of the Deep One project's subjects guarding the facilities, nothing can stop us from completing this project. Even if this means slowing down the Deep One research, it is still worth it.

Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn

The project leader demanded quick results, and we had a lot of people working on it around the clock as a result. We are proud to announce that the first two, identical prototypes of the AV-98 Ingram are up and running after some extremely heavy work. There are some issues that must be worked out with the cockpit, energy usage, movement of the unit and so forth, but still, they actually work. They move, their sensors work, the communications work and so on. We are quite enthusiastic about all this.

The names of the pilots will be withheld as a safety precaution. With this pace, we should have a version that is quite bug free and ready to be used in real urban combat situations in no time. The Ingram might put an end to our need of the land living Deep Ones as weapons, plus they are cheaper on the long run.

Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn

After going through many alternate ways of fixing the problem with the cockpit, we are now ready to announce, that the problem has been solved. The cockpit just wasn't safe enough for the pilot, leaving his or her head more or less out in the open for any sniper to shoot off, but now that has been taken care of. The sensors and communications still work, even if the range's are low. But as the mecha is meant for urban combat, so it is not useful to have much longer ranges on them, it would make them less cost efficient.

The movement of the machine is quite fluid now as well. The mecha can now run with a good speed, and the pilot does not have to worry about the stability of the thing anymore. It can even leap some distances with the mecha still staying up, unlike before. This means that the automated parts of the mecha now work quite well. The mecha can use the designated weapons with stunning accuracy, meaning that there are no problems with the arms and hands. Although the performance of these mechas depend much on the skill of the pilot.

No problems have been detected with the machine's "learning" AI. For ease of use and the ability to change between identical machines, the AI saves combat data of the pilot on a small, portable disc. This works just fine, but the pilot needs to practice at least a month with the mecha before he or she can use the full potential of the AV-98 Ingram. Without it, it is a lot harder to do "fancy" stuff and even the more basic things. It is, of course, possible to use the data of someone else, but as everyone's way of fighting is different, it will be a lot harder to do things even that way. More on that later, if more data is needed.

Because the other power sources were quite too heavy and/or unpractical for the machine, we then chose to put high capacity batteries on them. They have a long enough operating time, it being about a week of normal usage per battery - you can actually have eight of them per mecha. If forced to fight, they of course have to be recharged more often. We had some minor problems with them, but now they work fine. The best part about these is that you can recharge them at any electric facility, power plants and such, and if they get destroyed, they won't take half of the city - or your army - with them like most mechas.

Now we'll have to start building more of them. They are not on sale as of yet, and the start of mass production will take time.

Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn

We wish you the best of luck designing your mech suits and if needed will offer assistance

Lord Dilandou
Leader of the Dragonslayers and advisor to Emperor Falken 1st

http://otaku.onlinehome.de/escaflowne_cast/dilandau.jpg

The engineers of Rlyeh Cult came up with something quite exciting tonight, as they were doing some customizations to the prototypes of the AV-98 Ingram, as they are becoming more or less obsolete because some of our mass production lines are already almost ready to start building new units. They created what they call a "flak jacket", which makes the mecha look more or less clothed, but it's not just any jacket. It provides protection.

The specs are classified, but this new improvement will be added on every Ingram that'll be built. The production lines will have to be modified a bit, but that shouldn't take too long. They should look more or less like this now:

http://sensori.soldats.net/rcult/ingram/dc-Ingram_Movie2.jpg

Yes, the picture is that of a model. After the completion of the Ingram prototypes, the engineers just have too much time on their hands. That is all.

Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn

Mass production of the unit is more or less under way. A small number of the assembly lines that are supposed to start making new Ingrams are ready. Now, to celebrate this event, we shall share some of the specs of the mecha with all.

Official Code: AV-98
Production Code: INGRAM
Unit type: law enforcement anti-armor crime patrol labor
Crew: one
Height: 8.02 meters
Width: 4.37 meters
Standard weight: 6.02 tons
Full equipment weight: 6.62 tons
Maximum weight lifting capacity: 2.40 tons
Powerplant: High Capacity Batteries
Range: Works a week per battery (can hold eight), can be recharged at any nuclear/electrical facility.
Speed: Walks about 55 kilometers per hour, runs about 95 kilometers per hour.
Armor materials: fiber reinforced plastic and carbon fiber reinforced material
Average armor thickness: 30mm
Standard equipment: 37 mm revolver cannon (6 rounds), 90 mm riot cannon, stun baton
Sensor range: 1 kilometer
Communications range: 5 kilometers
Minimum revolving radius: 3.90 meters
Special: (1)All equipped with flak jackets. (2) Both legs can hold either 12 shotgun or 36 revolver rounds. If the right leg is used to holster the revolver, it can only hold 12 revolver rounds and cannot hold any shotgun rounds. (3) Also has a forearm shield for parrying energy, railgun and missile attacks and can be fitted with a larger one (as tall as itself) if necessary. (4) Even though the prototypes had open cockpits, making the pilot vulnerable, the actual mass produced version does not have this flaw.

And as we know how people just love pictures around here:

http://sensori.soldats.net/rcult/ingram/av98s-01.jpg

http://sensori.soldats.net/rcult/ingram/av-98-flack.jpg

The first few Ingrams were deployed on the streets of Crutaha and of the capital city, Cthugol, a few days ago. They have already made a difference in the ability of the police to fight crime in those two major cities. The idea is to use them in pairs, as to minimize the effects of possible malfunctions and attacks on them.

They have already shown great promise, and they have been even more effective than we ever hoped. We are not going to sell any AV-98 Ingrams, at least not yet.

We are now in the process of creating a military version of the labor design. Once we get some sort of blue prints ready, we shall attempt to build a prototype based on those, just like we did with the Ingram. At least we have the Ingram as a base this time. It shouldn't take as long as the AV-98 Ingram did.

We have, effectively frozen the Deep One research project. We still have some research groups working on it, but they are merely doing some small tweaks to the genetic code and nothing else. As that project never became popular, it is not likely that we would continue selling them for long. But if someone wishes to buy them, we'll sell them.

Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn

Very nice.
Plan to market them
to other neighbouring
countries?

Im sure we could find a deal with nuclear devices.

--
Signed
Forever lasting Dictator of
Los Destructores

Now the AV-98 Ingrams have been dispatched in every major Cultist city, from the distant Nyharthek to Hurthei. There's now at least three pairs of them in every major city. No problems have been detected with them as of yet. More might be sent if needed, though. We will keep a good number of them in reserves in an inactive state, as well as in actual army use, at least until the military labor is ready. There have been some advances in the making of such a machine, but it "is not yet ready", as the leader of the very large team working on it said. They are very secretive about the project, but we're sure they'll have something to show soon enough.

The high council is having a debate about sending them to less prosperous cities as well, but the motion will most likely fail, as they are too expensive to be squandered in such areas.

Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn

We finally have something to report again. They now have a prototype of the military labor ready, and they call it "Helldiver". It seems that the name comes from the fact that it is meant to be a paratrooper-sort mech. Because the prototype benefitted a lot from the fact that we made the Ingram first, it has a lot less flaws than the Ingram prototypes had.

We are having some problems with the ammunition they will be using, but still, that's nothing to get worried about. Whenever we get to the point of diverting some of the assembly lines building more Ingrams to do these "Helldivers", we do not need that much ammo at first anyway. We believe the problem should not exist after we actually start using the machines.

Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn

(OOC: I forgot to say that these are sort-of-modern-age machines, as in the series they're in, the time the Ingram was put in use was 1998 and for the Helldiver, the year was 1999. They are not "invincible", but they are good, plus they are cheap - to build and such - when compared to the other mechas in circulation.)

The first couple of assembly lines which were making Ingrams are now making Helldivers. Because of this fact, we will now give out specs on them.

Official code: ARL-99B
Production code: HELLDIVER
Unit type: airborne operations military labor
Height: 7.95 meters
Width: 4.55 meters
Standard weight: 5.75 tons
Full equipment weight: 6.81 tons
Maximum weight lifting capacity: 3.10 tons
Armor materials: fiber reinforced plastic and carbon fiber reinforced material (aluminum steel)
Standard equipment: 40 mm rapid-firing machinegun
Optional equipment: parachute sack, smoke discharger x8, TOW anti-tank missile launcher
Minimum revolving radius: 3.90 meters

A helldiver from the front:
http://sensori.soldats.net/rcult/helldiver/hellfront.jpg

And from the back:
http://sensori.soldats.net/rcult/helldiver/hellback.jpg

They can be used for normal land operations as well.

As we have used most of our military budget to mass produce Ingrams for some time now, we have come to realize that we need to create a cheaper version of the machine. All mass production of the AV-98 Ingrams is to be stopped, and for now, to be changed to produce Helldivers.

If, or more like when we get this cheaper machine done, we will start mass producing and possibly selling them to others. The normal AV-98 Ingram just costs too much to build in the mass quantities we wanted them. The cheaper version might be deployed on smaller Cultist cities as well. This search for a cheaper solution is to be started immediately.

Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn

Why do you bother clothing them?

For a publicity stunt, do you think you could pit one of these against our Prota Raven Unit in a nice one-on-one fight? All parties would receive worldwide recognition for their mecha-building abilities.
http://www.artfx-kotobukiya.com/item/jpg/zio1.jpg

EDIT: Never mind, I found it. I would challenge you to a one-on-one fight with my lightest mech class (20-35 tons) but it would be crushed in a heartbeat. Exactly how fast are these mechs anyway?

Why do you bother clothing them?

For a publicity stunt, do you think you could pit one of these against our Prota Raven Unit in a nice one-on-one fight? All parties would receive worldwide recognition for their mecha-building abilities.
http://www.artfx-kotobukiya.com/item/jpg/zio1.jpg


(OOC: No offense, but you're asking your ass to be kicked. :P)

Why do you bother clothing them?

The "clothes" are armoring. They mostly just look like clothes, and they look better with them, too. The mecha is meant to cause an awe effect on the streets, too. They are law enforcement labors, not military gear.

For a publicity stunt, do you think you could pit one of these against our Prota Raven Unit in a nice one-on-one fight?


Depends on the weapons allowed. We'd guess a melee fight would be most suitable, as normal one on ones with all weapons allowed tend to degenerate into sniping competitions. (OOC: Is that mecha of yours future tech? AV-98 Ingram isn't, as in the series I ripped it off from it was put to use in the year of 1998.)

IC:
EDIT: Never mind, I found it. I would challenge you to a one-on-one fight with my lightest mech class (20-35 tons) but it would be crushed in a heartbeat. Exactly how fast are these mechs anyway?

As stated above, an AV-98 Ingram can run at a speed of 95 kilometers per hour, and they walk at a speed of 55 kilometers per hour. It cannot fly, so it has to move rapidly. They are law enforcement labors, and thus they are meant for urban combat. That is, if you were even talking about our mechas.

Or on second thought, we guess the whole one on one fight would be quite... Uneven. Our labor is only a bit over 8 meters tall, while your mech is over 18 meters tall. The point of having a match between such machines is... Well, there's no point at all. They are just too different.

Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn

The engineers of the Cult have already been able to find ways to make a more economical version of the AV-98 Ingram. It will take some time until they are able to drop the costs of building those machines to a more acceptable level, though. But, we are getting there, step by step. They say that they will be able to take about two thirds off of the current price when their job is done. This is highly promising indeed.

Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn

May we purchase a few of your Ingrams?

We are fowarding 4.2 billion USD to you for R&D and production. All we ask is the scematics and one operational suit(no ammo or weapons), so we may build these machines ourselves. They will be very useful in dealing with the riots we have been having.

We are fowarding 4.2 billion USD to you for R&D and production. All we ask is the scematics and one operational suit(no ammo or weapons), so we may build these machines ourselves. They will be very useful in dealing with the riots we have been having.

After a very short debate, we have accepted your offer. We have been using most of our military budget - and a large portion of our police budget as well - on the creation of these machines. That is mainly why we have been so quick on the R&D and production of the labors we have already made. And of course, they are all based on the original AV-98 Ingram design, which eases the process as well. The money you have sent us should ease the local pressure on the project, and for that we thank you.

The engineers have named the new labor, the one that you are now sponsoring, as "AVS-98 Economy mk. II". We have no idea why they named it as "mark two", but it would indicate that they have already tried to do an economy model before, and possibly failed in the attempt. We heard nothing of the original "AVS-98 Economy".

May we purchase a few of your Ingrams?

No, those are not on sale, but the AVS-98 Economy mark two will be, when it is done.

Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn

May we purchase a few of your Ingrams?

No, those are not on sale, but the AVS-98 Economy mark two will be, when it is done.

Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn

Then can I "pre-order" 50 of them???

Then can I "pre-order" 50 of them???

Of course you can, but we haven't thought of a price for it as of yet. As the AV-98 Ingram was never supposed to hit the market, we never thought how much it would cost, and as (supposedly) an AVS-98 Economy (mk2) costs a third of the AV-98 Ingram's price to build... We have no idea as of now how much we'd ask for it. The price should not be too high, nor should it be too low. We did the mistake of keeping the prices too low once, and we are not going to do that mistake again.

Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn

(OOC: No offense, but you're asking your ass to be kicked. :P)((OOC: How so? I take it you've never seen my Raven Units in action.))
Depends on the weapons allowed. We'd guess a melee fight would be most suitable, as normal one on ones with all weapons allowed tend to degenerate into sniping competitions. (OOC: Is that mecha of yours future tech? AV-98 Ingram isn't, as in the series I ripped it off from it was put to use in the year of 1998.)IC: Melee it is then. I trust you'll let us use our H/F blades (NOT lightsabers)?
OOC: Raven Units aren't truly tech future, they're actually only produced about ten years in the future.
And yes, Patlabor, great show. :D

Cool. You mind if I use those pics? I always ask first. It's just the polite thing to do.

Melee it is then. I trust you'll let us use our H/F blades (NOT lightsabers)?

But we already said that such a fight would be a waste of time, money and resources because of simple fact that your mechas are 10 meters taller than ours. We saw you saying that your mecha is about 60 feet tall. That would make 18,288 meters. An Ingram is 8,02 meters. That converts to 26,312336 feet. Do you see what we are going at with this? The fight would be uneven.

Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn

Melee it is then. I trust you'll let us use our H/F blades (NOT lightsabers)?

But we already said that such a fight would be a waste of time, money and resources because of simple fact that your mechas are 10 meters taller than ours. We saw you saying that your mecha is about 60 feet tall. That would make 18,288 meters. An Ingram is 8,02 meters. That converts to 26,312336 feet. Do you see what we are going at with this? The fight would be uneven.

Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagnIt's like the Rebel ship at the begining of Star Wars against the Star Destroyer. Uneven fight.

Cool. You mind if I use those pics? I always ask first. It's just the polite thing to do.

The AVS-98 Economy mark two looks different than the normal AV-98 Ingram. Let us show you a picture of a model of the machine the engineers are currently working to create:

http://sensori.soldats.net/rcult/economy/dc-AVS98_Standard.jpg

As you can see, the machine has no flak jacket, as to lower the weight and cost. And it is a lot easier to build these anyway than the original AV-98 Ingrams. A normal Ingram would look a lot like that without the flak jacket as well. But the machine is not yet quite completed, so we ask you to wait for a while. It won't take long anymore. We promise.

Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn

It's like the Rebel ship at the begining of Star Wars against the Star Destroyer. Uneven fight.

Of course it would be a lot less uneven if we were allowed to put more Ingrams to the fight. Let's say, until the prices of the two meet, when the Ingrams cost as much as the other machine put together.

Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn

Oh, I wanted the first version you showed. I can modify it to be economical(I am future tech), like replacing the power cells with a longer lasting battery and using an energy weapon instead of the shotgun. Besides, they look like badasses. :twisted:

My people are swimming in money so taking your old design, retooling it and upgrading it to our tech level, will be well within budget. :wink:

But we already said that such a fight would be a waste of time, money and resources because of simple fact that your mechas are 10 meters taller than ours. We saw you saying that your mecha is about 60 feet tall. That would make 18,288 meters. An Ingram is 8,02 meters. That converts to 26,312336 feet. Do you see what we are going at with this? The fight would be uneven.

Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagnYou might want to recheck your numbers, as 802 meters does not equal 26,312,336 feet.

I think he mean 8.02 meters is equal to 26.312336 feet.

I think he mean 8.02 meters is equal to 26.312336 feet.Well, that'd make more sense. I was wondering how he had such a huge mech

Well, that'd make more sense. I was wondering how he had such a huge mech

(OOC: Yeah, we use commas instead of periods around here, to distinguish between decimals and... Uh, full numbers. It doesn't usually confuse people, since it's kinda obvious. ;-) It would be kind of funny if I had a labor that large, though. They are only about ~8 meters high.)

"Hm... Humanoid fighting machines..."

The Emperor turns away from the screen towards the intercom system.

"Put me with R&D. Now."

"Yes, my Lord? What can we do for you today?"

"I have just seen some... human-shaped fighting machines, and I wondered if we could make something along these lines. I'm sending the info I collected so far."

"If some strangers can make them, ours will be superior."

"Heh. I like the spirit. Work on it..."

"Yeah, I'll put one, no, two, no, better ten teams on it."

"Excellent. I want RESULTS. And this time I want them fast. Or else... Remember what happened to your predecessor..."

Darth Thanatos cuts the intercom and gets back to looking the thread...

Oh, I wanted the first version you showed. I can modify it to be economical(I am future tech), like replacing the power cells with a longer lasting battery and using an energy weapon instead of the shotgun. Besides, they look like badasses. :twisted:

My people are swimming in money so taking your old design, retooling it and upgrading it to our tech level, will be well within budget. :wink:

(OOC: I didn't actually know that you're of future tech. How are you going to bring the thing to your "time"? Unless there's some weird time/space breach somewhere that I haven't heard of. ;) )

IC: Oh? The first version is the one that costs a lot more than the Economy version to build, and modifying it to be the Economy model would be, well, useless. They are called that for a reason, you see. They cost less and are not as good as the original in combat with other labors, but we had no intentions on selling our Ingrams. We stopped mass producing them. The fact is that they just cost too much to build - and mass producing them is slow. We have enough of them to patrol our cities and we have some in reserves, but that's about it.

We think that with your technology, having the Economy - or the Helldiver model - would be more efficient. Even if the Economy version does not have the flak jacket, it doesn't mean that they couldn't be equipped with it. They would weigh more with the jacket, of course. The original Ingram was our first labor design meant for combat, and remodelling it would... Cost a lot. The Economy model will be more versatile on that area.

With the technology you have it wouldn't really matter if you had the cheaper or the more expensive one, anyway. The Economy model would just cost less, and you could make more of them at the price of one Ingram.

Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn

Darth Thanatos cuts the intercom and gets back to looking the thread...

(OOC: As long as you leave me alone with my Patlabor ripoffs... ;) These mechs are modern day ones, kind of. I guess you're of future tech, so it's kinda obvious you'll make something "better", so to speak.)

(OOC: As long as you leave me alone with my Patlabor ripoffs... ;) These mechs are modern day ones, kind of. I guess you're of future tech, so it's kinda obvious you'll make something "better", so to speak.)

OOC: BattleMechs, actually, but I needed an IC thread for the idea to come up. I doubt we will be RPing, and I still have a lot of Research to do...

Oh, if you are interested, my first will be the Rifleman.

OOC: BattleMechs, actually, but I needed an IC thread for the idea to come up. I doubt we will be RPing, and I still have a lot of Research to do...

Oh, if you are interested, my first will be the Rifleman.

(OOC: Good luck with your BattleMech project. I think some other people have been doing those too, though. Maybe you should build some Clan mechs or something, haven't seen any of those running around. ;) )

OOC: I don't plan on having Clan Mechs any time soon. May be October.

And I stop hijacking the thread. :)

(OOC: Damn, it's really hard to find any adequate pictures of that AVS-98 Economy mark II, but I finally got *something*, but I'll release it later, when the project is done.)

Now we will show some pictures of the ARL-99B Helldiver that actually have color in them. So, here they are:

http://sensori.soldats.net/rcult/helldiver/hell01.jpg

and

http://sensori.soldats.net/rcult/helldiver/hell02.jpg

As you can see, the Helldiver uses the same sickly green-brown palette as most tanks. We will use a palette close to the original Ingram design on the Economy model, but the picture(s) we will show later is/are from some... Differently painted AVS-98 Economy mark II machines.

Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn

Both the AV-98 Ingram and the ARL-99B Helldiver has been copyrighted on the NationStates copyrighting thread (here (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=40509)), as to protect our projects. As more are done, we will copyright them as well.

The AVS-98 Economy mark two is nearing completion. We assume that a prototype of the machine will be fully complete very soon. Very, very soon. It seems that the engineers have been able to keep their promise of making the price of this machine as low as one third of the price of an Ingram. Everything is going smoothly, and no problems are expected.

Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn

OOC: I don't plan on having Clan Mechs any time soon. May be October.

And I stop hijacking the thread. :)Yeah. Omni-Mechs are a pain to develop...

OOC: Here is an easier way to see the proof of copyright: http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=40509&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=635

IC: We still request the plans to the AV-98 and ARL-99B and rights to produce them. We wish to remain within international law and produce these legally.(OOC Note: That means I'm going to do it whether you like it or not and I'm offering you money for it)

We still request the plans to the AV-98 and ARL-99B and rights to produce them. We wish to remain within international law and produce these legally.(OOC Note: That means I'm going to do it whether you like it or not and I'm offering you money for it)

You originally only requested the plans for the thing we were doing at the moment, and back then, we had already stopped mass producing AV-98 Ingrams after creating several hundred of them (draining a whole lot of our economy), had started mass producing ARL-99Bs and then we had started looking for methods to drop the price of the Ingram. That made us assume that you were talking about the AVS-98 Economy mark II (yes, the name isn't the best possible one, but we'll have to live with it).

But now you have extended your request from the AV-98 Ingram to the ARL-99B Helldiver as well. Why in Cthulhu's name would you want the Helldiver, which is a paradrop, yes, a paradrop military labor? It is basically a military version of the Ingram anyway, which is why we were so fast in creating it. And the Ingram's costs to build and sell should be somewhere around the price of the Valkyries from Imitora, if not even higher. They can't fly, or transform in any way - and they are incapable of space combat. The reason why we wanted to do this new version of it is an obvious one.

(OOC: I think that if you wanted something, it's not a paradrop mecha, at least if your wars are fought with future tech. They'd get shot down without even seeing what hit 'em. I'd use the AV-98 Ingram or AVS-98 Economy blahblah on a future battlefield.)

IC: We guess selling rights to the Ingram is acceptable, but we cannot see why you would want it, especially as the Economy model is now fully complete. The Ingram costs. A lot.

--

The project to create a much cheaper version of the AV-98 Ingram is now complete. The first few prototypes of the AVS-98 Economy mark II are ready. Some of the factories currently churning out new Helldivers were shut down before this month, because we were expecting this. We will start changing the mass production lines in question to ones that create AVS-98 Economy mk. IIs. These will be the first labors meant to be sold. And now some specs on the machine:

Official Code : AVS-98 Mk. II
Production Code : ECONOMY
Unit type: law enforcement anti-labor, crime patrol labor
Crew: one
Surface Material : Fiber Reinforced Plastic, Carbon Fiber Reinforced Material.
Standard Equipment : 37mm revolver (6 rounds), 90 mm riot cannon, anti-labor stun baton.
Powerplant: High Capacity Batteries
Range: Works a week per battery (can hold eight), can be recharged at any nuclear/electrical facility.
Speed: Walks ~65 kilometers per hour, runs ~105 kilometers per hour.
Height : 8.30m.
Width : 4.37m.
Weight : 5.89t.
Full equipment weight: 6.12t.
Maximum Weight Lift Capacity : 2.45t.
Minimum Revolving Radius : 3.99m.
Special: No flak vest added, for less cost and weight. Its a bit taller than the normal Ingram and it weighs less. Performance is not as good in comparison, but the price to build them is only a third of that of an AV-98 Ingram. Can hold as much ammo as the original machine. Most changes are to be held as a secret.

Price withheld until mass production commences.

The head of the Economy model is different when compared to the one of the original:
http://sensori.soldats.net/rcult/economy/mk2_1.jpg

The labor from a bit different angle:
http://sensori.soldats.net/rcult/economy/mk2_2.jpg

The labor itself looks like this:
http://sensori.soldats.net/rcult/economy/markII01.jpg (http://sensori.soldats.net/rcult/economy/markII01b.jpg)
(Press the picture to enlarge)

We chose to use that as the basic palette on the labor. There were some different choices as well, like this one:

http://sensori.soldats.net/rcult/economy/av98s_standard.jpg (http://sensori.soldats.net/rcult/economy/avs98_standard.jpg)
(press the picture to enlarge)

But we thought the one above looks more... Official, than the one below. We will start mass producing these labors as soon as possible.

Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn

OOC: This is what I want: I want a mini-mech, that looks like your Ingram AV-98. It will be completely different on the inside. I didn't realise the other was an paradrop-mech, so I don't need those.

I just want the outer look of the Ingram AV-98. I already have mechs about the Ingrams size, but they aren't as flexible as the Ingram.

I just want the outer look of the Ingram AV-98. I already have mechs about the Ingrams height, but they aren't as flexible as the Ingram.

Very well. This is acceptable. We will send one of the prototypes and the designs with it. But because every single one of them is built with the anti-labor stun baton - even the prototype - we'll send it with the machine. You can do whatever you want with it.

But what about the money? The 4,2 billion you sent us was for this cause, right?

Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn

I just want the outer look of the Ingram AV-98. I already have mechs about the Ingrams height, but they aren't as flexible as the Ingram.

Very well. This is acceptable. We will send one of the prototypes and the designs with it. But because every single one of them is built with the anti-labor stun baton - even the prototype - we'll send it with the machine. You can do whatever you want with it.

But what about the money? The 4,2 billion you sent us was for this cause, right?

Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagnThe deal was you send the mech, we send the money. You use the money however you see fit, and our techs get another mech to fiddle with.

OOC: Also, what is that little saying at the bottom of your posts?

The deal was you send the mech, we send the money. You use the money however you see fit, and our techs get another mech to fiddle with.

Which is acceptable. When you talked about the R&D and production process back there, you confused us, but this is acceptable. We will send you the machine and the designs.

But remember, as the machines you are going to make are not "normal" AV-98 Ingrams, you should call them something like "AV-98S Ingram" (S for "Special") for the sake of clarity, if you wish to retain the original name. Unless you are going to rename them completely.

Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn

OOC: Also, what is that little saying at the bottom of your posts?

(OOC: It means something like "In his house at R'lyeh dead Cthulhu waits dreaming". Cthulhu Mythos-stuff.)

The deal was you send the mech, we send the money. You use the money however you see fit, and our techs get another mech to fiddle with.

Which is acceptable. When you talked about the R&D and production process back there, you confused us, but this is acceptable. We will send you the machine and the designs.

But remember, as the machines you are going to make are not "normal" AV-98 Ingrams, you should call them something like "AV-98S Ingram" (S for "Special") for the sake of clarity, if you wish to retain the original name. Unless you are going to rename them completely.

Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagnI'm renaming them. AV-98 isn't what I'm looking for in a Mech name. lol Doesn't have enough power...

I'm renaming them. AV-98 isn't what I'm looking for in a Mech name. lol Doesn't have enough power...

Very well. The labor and the designs have already been sent. We assume that the money has been sent already as well?

Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn

Out of curiosity, there wouldnt happen to be any affect on these from say, the resinace of the wind from large buildings, eh? (Patalbor is second fav. anime serries, althose these are future tech. I use Macross tech, and it exists in 2050(ish), but I gaurentee you we wont have variable Fighters in 2050)

Out of curiosity, there wouldnt happen to be any affect on these from say, the resinace of the wind from large buildings, eh? (Patalbor is second fav. anime serries, althose these are future tech. I use Macross tech, and it exists in 2050(ish), but I gaurentee you we wont have variable Fighters in 2050)Excuse me but... What the hell did you just say? :?


IC: The money has been sent.

Out of curiosity, there wouldnt happen to be any affect on these from say, the resinace of the wind from large buildings, eh?

It would be nice if we understood your question. Please elaborate.

(Patalbor is second fav. anime serries, althose these are future tech. I use Macross tech, and it exists in 2050(ish), but I gaurentee you we wont have variable Fighters in 2050)

(OOC: But the fact is that they COULD have these things by now. Hell, they didn't think we'd have computers this good by now, and yet, we have 'em. I think it would be more than possible to have something that's like an Ingram by now, that is, if things had gone differently. They are like lightly armored walking... Armored vehicles. The stuff from Macross are even more Sci-Fi than the labors of Patlabor, at least that's what I think.)

IC: The money has been sent.

The Cult thanks you. Even if it got rather, well, awkward, it was a pleasure doing business with you.

Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn

(OOC: And hey, my whole country's based on fiction, so sue me! ;) )

It would be nice if we understood your question. Please elaborate.

IC: Can teh resinance waves from the wind around large buildings screw up the operating systems (OOC: Like they did in the first movie), and cause the laborers to go beserk?

Being well into the mech industry myself, I have a few questions about your mecha.

1: What materials are you using that makes it only 6 tons? Although it's roughly half the height of anything that came off of my assembly line, it has to have either really weak armor, or you're not calculating the weight correctly.

2: You speak of these "moves" your mecha can do. No offense, but what laws of physics are you following? Something eight metres tall and 6 (supposed) tons simply cannot do cartwheels and dives, etc, without damaging itself, or hurting the pilot.

3: Your powerplant. Batteries? Mechs (or mecha, for you anime fans) are very electronics intensive. You'd have to have very very VERY powerful batteries with a considerable amount of life on them. Assuming these things are meant to operate in combat conditions for a prolonged period of time, oh... let's say twelve hours. Not only would your batteries have to last 12 hours of constant use, but also provide enough voltage and wattage to supply something of that sophistication. Also, if the batteries were damaged, you'd have a hard time with keeping the mech under control, or adequatley powered. You speak of a powerplant that can take out "Half your city" and I'm assuming you're referring to my compact clean fusion engine. Fusion engines DO NOT have any radioactive or unstable material. They can cause a large explosion, but nothing the size of a nuke. Nowhere close. Not only that, but the reactor is heavily shielded, and has automatic safety mechanisms that prevent such an event from happening.

4. Clothes and handheld weaponry? That's very vulnerable. I know your clothes are extra protection, but they're still just heavy-duty flak jackets. Do they provide any protection against energy weapons? What about flamethrowers? Will the mecha ignite into a ball of flames if someone lights a zippo? And what kind of protection can it provide from an 18-inch solid slug of nickle-cadmium traveling at near light speeds? Onto handheld weaponry, what would happen if the mecha dropped it? Or... say, it jammed? What do you have for backup? Your fists? I hope they're rocket fists. What if the weapon was (and probably easily can be) shot?

Although it may sound like an oxymoron, but if you want to look at more realistic mechs, check out my storefront thread.
http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=57840

Word of advice, anime is no way comparable to real world physics.

How do you propell a nickle cadium slug at near light speeds in an atmosphere?

How do you propell a nickle cadium slug at near light speeds in an atmosphere?

Linear Induced Magnets, or LIM.

IC: Can teh resinance waves from the wind around large buildings screw up the operating systems, and cause the laborers to go beserk?

No. Any such problems have been dealth with. You see, the first one we ever made was meant for law enforcement, which means basically urban combat, which would mean that you'd get screwed if that was to happen.

(OOC: The prototype phase was there to give me a reason to skip the, uh, first phases of the whole thing. I'm taking some "minor" artistic privileges here... ;) )

Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn

How do you propell a nickle cadium slug at near light speeds in an atmosphere?

Linear Induced Magnets, or LIM.

So I assume this shells have small generators attached to shield them from the intense heat of flying at that speed.

So I assume this shells have small generators attached to shield them from the intense heat of flying at that speed.

They're not going to be traveling that long.

Length of travle doesnt matter much when you are going from zero to near Lightspeed in under a millisecond. The only way that these rounds wouldnt melt under the extreme stress or pressure at that speed would be if the acceleratd slowly, which I doubt they do, other wise they woulndt be effective.

Being well into the mech industry myself, I have a few questions about your mecha.

it has to have either really weak armor, or you're not calculating the weight correctly.

Fact is that these labors do have light armoring to keep the weight down. They are meant for urban warfare, not for space combat or flying or whatever you are thinking of. Read what is said in the earlier posts, thank you.

No offense, but what laws of physics are you following? Something eight metres tall and 6 (supposed) tons simply cannot do cartwheels and dives, etc, without damaging itself, or hurting the pilot.

We said nothing of the moves they can do. You said that they can do those things. We never said they could do "cartwheels" or anything like that. Dives of course cause damage on the long run. That is of course a known fact. However, usually the armoring takes the damage first and such. Plus, as you can see, some of the more sophisticated parts are "cushioned". Actually, the only thing we said was that they can leap about 25 meters, and even that is not suggested. You can do whatever you want with the machine, we don't care if you kill yourself in the process.

3: Your powerplant. Batteries? Mechs (or mecha, for you anime fans) are very electronics intensive. You'd have to have very very VERY powerful batteries with a considerable amount of life on them. Assuming these things are meant to operate in combat conditions for a prolonged period of time, oh... let's say twelve hours. Not only would your batteries have to last 12 hours of constant use, but also provide enough voltage and wattage to supply something of that sophistication.

Maybe you haven't realized it yet, but these labors are quite different from your mechs. They rely less on heavy electronics (OOC: than most of those future tech mechs anyway, these are more like modern day ones), they do not use any power when using their weapons or anything like that, and they can be used with eyeball sensors only if needed. They are quite different from your mechs anyway, if your mechas couldn't work with them, it doesn't mean that these could not too.

Also, if the batteries were damaged, you'd have a hard time with keeping the mech under control, or adequatley powered. You speak of a powerplant that can take out "Half your city" and I'm assuming you're referring to my compact clean fusion engine. Fusion engines DO NOT have any radioactive or unstable material.

But that is where we depart from each other. Your mech is future tech, mine isn't. End of story. No one in this time *has* fusion engines, just fission ones. Disregarding. And ff the batteries were damaged, you'd be screwed, but still you would have your pair there to do the job. (And that's why they usually have several of them attached to the damned thing, like said before)

4. Clothes and handheld weaponry? That's very vulnerable. I know your clothes are extra protection, but they're still just heavy-duty flak jackets. Do they provide any protection against energy weapons? What about flamethrowers? Will the mecha ignite into a ball of flames if someone lights a zippo?

About as much a human with clothes would burst into flames. And at this time, no one has energy weapons, so we are going to disregard that question completely. A human is vulnerable when holding a gun, and so is a mech of this sort. But you know, if you shoot the hands off, the pilot will most likely still live. There's no point having the weapons stuck on the cockpit or something idiotic like that.

And what kind of protection can it provide from an 18-inch solid slug of nickle-cadmium traveling at near light speeds? Onto handheld weaponry, what would happen if the mecha dropped it? Or... say, it jammed? What do you have for backup? Your fists? I hope they're rocket fists. What if the weapon was (and probably easily can be) shot?

Every single AV-98 Ingram is equipped with an anti labor stun baton, which still work when in times of need. And that is why they move in pairs. If your machine fails, the other most likely won't. If you drop your gun, that's a bad thing, but hey, things like that happen. It's not like these would meet that many mechs running around when patrolling the Cultist cities or anything. And there are no weapons that could shoot the things you have mentioned, so we will disregard it as well.

(OOC: Why oh why do I always stay up till my brains start shooting blanks?! Go to sleep I must.)

Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn

Benderland, you have to realise they are RPing in the late 20th early 21st centurys. Battletech and Gundam tech doesn't apply to them. They are advancing differently and seperatly.

Word of advice, anime is no way comparable to real world physics.

(OOC: Actually, I found this one kind of funny, coming from a battletechie. BattleTech has nothing to do with real world physics either. If a 100 ton mech was to walk, for example, on streets, it would break the whole god damn street, but nooot in BattleTech. Using a 'Mech as a police mech isn't a good idea, unless you were going to change that asphalt into something reaally hard soon, of course, and if that same mech was going to walk around in the wilderness... You know, ground everywhere just won't be strong enough to support those things. And as they are vulnerable to heat, you could just use a flamer at them and make them overheat too, so you have an awkward problem with flamethrowers in your time and age.

And what if the BattleMech was to fall, as they always, eventually, are? Huh? What then? Yeah, I know you'd say you'd just use those funny jumpjets that give those 20-100 ton machines limited flying ability, which is, well, bull shit. I don't think it would be that easy to lift something that large. And those gyroscopes of yours have nothing to do with physics, as they seem to miraculously dampen the effects of recoil and everything else completely. What if someone shot the leg off of your mech? They can't sit or anything, unlike the labor design, because it's, well, of full humanoid form. But I guess they'll just use the Miracle Jumpjet (tm) to stay up! Or the "You can't really shoot the leg off, just damage it!"

Actually, as a human usually has to "hurt" him or herself when doing those acrobatics, meaning, strain the body. The machine would have to strain itself to do them too, but on the long run, they would still be doable. But who are you, good BattleTechie, to say, that it's fully *impossible*? Your machines are as impossible as that would be, basically. What if they were made with the basic idea of human movement in mind, unlike your mechs? And, your Parra and Quiris mechs don't even have legs to support them. Guess they use the Suspension of Disbelief (tm) to work.)

You're just proving even more how much you don't know about the BattleTech universe. How many BattleTech novels have you read? When you start reading some, you'd understand more in-depth of how the BattleTech universe operates with these bulky machines.

1. Roads of the future are obviously reinforced to support something the size of mechs. By the 31st century, mechs have already been around a good 400 years. I think by then they figure out that these things can't walk on normal 21st century roads.

2. The gyroscope mechanism is designed to lessen the effects of recoil, NOT ELIMINATE THEM. Meaning the mech isn't going to fall over backwards if it launched all its weapons at the same time. The mech still recoils once weapons are fired, and it's compensated even more in the arms because they hang off the torso.

3. Jump jets do NOT make the mech fly. They allow them to "leap" (not like anime mecha, more like a guy with a rocket pack), short distances. The mech's auto-stabalizing system keeps it upright once it lands. Maybe in the 21st century rockets are not able to lift something "that big". But now you're looking over the fact that I am future tech.

4. Yes, mechs can fall over. You think we haven't thought of that? Everything that's taller than it is wider can fall over. But it takes a lot of force to knock over a mech. Let's say... midway up the line. 60 tons. You'd have to have a projectile that could 1) Stay in one piece once it strikes the mech, 2) Have enough force to push the initial 60 tons, 3) Overcome the gyroscopic stabilization device.

5. If a mech's leg is completley blown off, yes the mech falls to the ground. Just like your mecha. That's inevitable. If you notice, what I said in my storefront thread is that if the leg is heavily damaged it is still able to drag itself back home. Jumpjets cannot fix this problem.

I'm not trying to piss you off, I'm just trying to point out the challenge it is to make mechs in the 21st century. The technology to do so does not exist.

I meant to post another few questions before I got my wisdom teeth out this morning:

1. Anything on your mecha involving movement has to take power from the batteries. How could your mech require no electrical power to fire its gun? It has to pull the trigger, doesn't it? It has to aim or brace itself. Does your pilot ride a stationary bike in the cockpit that turns some gears to move the arms?

2. How does your mecha manage to stand up?

1. Roads of the future are obviously reinforced to support something the size of mechs. By the 31st century, mechs have already been around a good 400 years. I think by then they figure out that these things can't walk on normal 21st century roads.

So we cannot be having this conversation anyway, as you are over a thousand years beyond us. Forgetting and disregarding most of the two posts you have "sent". But as shown in most in the BattleTech based games, they can miraculously walk on 1) houses, without crushing them 2) on any terrain, even though this is impossible for anything of such huge size to do that etc. You wouldn't think that they've reinforced every god damn country house in the 31st century, now would you?

2. The gyroscope mechanism is designed to lessen the effects of recoil, NOT ELIMINATE THEM. Meaning the mech isn't going to fall over backwards if it launched all its weapons at the same time. The mech still recoils once weapons are fired, and it's compensated even more in the arms because they hang off the torso.

But you said in your storefront that it is meant to eliminate recoil. But then again, wouldn't the recoil damage the 'Mech when it performs an Alpha Strike, if it just happened to be one of the ones with the largest weaponry, even if the gyroscope system was there to dampen the effects on movement?

3. Jump jets do NOT make the mech fly. They allow them to "leap" (not like anime mecha, more like a guy with a rocket pack), short distances.

As shown in BattleTech games, those "leaps" are rather large for something of that size. We'd call it limited flying ability. BattleTech is a universe made for games. The novels and such came afterwards. And as such, they had to make some concessions to make it more playable.

Maybe in the 21st century rockets are not able to lift something "that big".

Maybe we should have said "lift something that big continuously" instead of just once.

4. Yes, mechs can fall over. You think we haven't thought of that? Everything that's taller than it is wider can fall over. But it takes a lot of force to knock over a mech. Let's say... midway up the line. 60 tons.

It takes a perfect Death from Above to make a 'Mech fall, or that a leg is shot off completely. Or some other creative way. One can choose the best alternative.

5. If a mech's leg is completley blown off, yes the mech falls to the ground. Just like your mecha. That's inevitable. If you notice, what I said in my storefront thread is that if the leg is heavily damaged it is still able to drag itself back home. Jumpjets cannot fix this problem.

(OOC: I thought that in real BattleTech Universe the best pilots could do almost anything with their jumpjets and whatnot, and return to base with only one leg left. :) Guess you're taking some, uh, artistic privileges on your BattleMechs. :) )

I'm not trying to piss you off, I'm just trying to point out the challenge it is to make mechs in the 21st century. The technology to do so does not exist.

Which is exactly why we kept it a secret for so long. We had made a breakthrough before we went public with the project. It is not like we would have announced that we are doing something if we knew that we could not do it.

1. Anything on your mecha involving movement has to take power from the batteries. How could your mech require no electrical power to fire its gun? It has to pull the trigger, doesn't it? It has to aim or brace itself. Does your pilot ride a stationary bike in the cockpit that turns some gears to move the arms?

Of course not, and you are nitpicking here. What we meant by that is that the weapons they use do not require any energy, as they are mechanical, not electronic. We'd think that pulling the trigger does not require that much energy, nor does the bracing part. There are those pesky cushion-sort thingies there again.

2. How does your mecha manage to stand up?

When we said that they do not use as much electronics as your mechs do, we meant it. We are not the technicians, engineers and whatnot who did the machines, so we cannot give you any exact reasons how they did it, but we'd guess it has something to do with the AI of some kind implemented into the machine. It's not like they used any Mythos based sorcery to do it or anything.

(OOC: Many computers can work for hours, if not days, weeks, with a good UPS. And that's like current tech. It's not impossible to have a good enough battery system to keep the thing running, really. You can't deny that. And considering that my friggin country had some time to make the tech better... You can't deny me teh force of teh battery powar. ;) - typos intended. )

Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn

(OOC: I thought that in real BattleTech Universe the best pilots could do almost anything with their jumpjets and whatnot, and return to base with only one leg left. Guess you're taking some, uh, artistic privileges on your BattleMechs.)

Have you read ANY Battletech novels? In just about every one, a mech loses a leg and falls over. Right before it falls, the pilot ejects, or if the can't they climb out afterwards(if something hasn't broken loose and pnined them)

So we cannot be having this conversation anyway, as you are over a thousand years beyond us. Forgetting and disregarding most of the two posts you have "sent". But as shown in most in the BattleTech based games, they can miraculously walk on 1) houses, without crushing them 2) on any terrain, even though this is impossible for anything of such huge size to do that etc. You wouldn't think that they've reinforced every god damn country house in the 31st century, now would you? Where did you ever read a 100 ton mech was on a house? If it was in a game, the developer should be slapped. Several times. It's not possible.

Okay, I'll admit they do sink into terrain, but they have enough power to haul themselves through it.

Have you read ANY Battletech novels? In just about every one, a mech loses a leg and falls over. Right before it falls, the pilot ejects, or if the can't they climb out afterwards(if something hasn't broken loose and pnined them)

(OOC: I have played BattleTech games and read their manuals - some RP-sort board games included - but that's about as deep as my knowledge on BT goes. In those the pilots don't *always* even try to eject, and they might attempt to use the jumpjets/whatever they have to make the thing move. I mean, I wouldn't think it's impossible to move the thing with its jumpjets if it still had its arms intact. You could turn the mech to the position needed and just jump around the place. That is, if the jumpjets are still working. It might make the armors break, but that's the least of your problems when in that position.)

Where did you ever read a 100 ton mech was on a house? If it was in a game, the developer should be slapped. Several times. It's not possible.

(OOC: Then you should slap the people working for FASA. They developed the whole BattleTech franchise the last time I checked.)

I shouldn't bother anymore because you clearly know nothing about BattleTech, but I'll let you in on some brief history:

BattleTech was started in the eighties with a pen-and-paper board game. Then came the books, AND THEN came the games. The video games were called the MechWarrior (and briefly, MechCommander) series, and they were loosley based on the BattleTech universe.

You CANNOT base any of BattleTech physics on MechWarrior video games. Video games are meant for entertainment, not always realism. Of course a mech will crush a house, but it won't crush a reinforced cement parking ramp, or a cliff, steel building, etc. Also, it doesn't sink into solid terrain because it's solid friggin terrain. If it's lose dirt or sand, movement is hampered a little. In fact, dirt/grass is the best material for mechs to walk on because it's meant to give a mech a foothold. Concrete and asphault slightly reduces the traction.

Also, THE MOST EXPERIENCED mech pilots could do advanced moves with their jumpjets, but nothing like you describe. If a mech falls to the ground, it cannot use its jumpjets. You are trying to make it sound like these jumpets are these miricle rockets that can make this mech fly around like an F-14 but they're NOT. They're simple "get up there" mechanisms that will get you to a higher elevation up an unclimbable slope if neccisary. Frankly I wish you were pitching the sales for my mechs, maybe you'd be able to sell even more with your outrageous claims of acrobatics and miricle systems that prevent the mech from being destroyed.

You still haven't answered my question. A vehicle like your mecha is obviously not anchored into the ground, and simple computer calcuations by an AI processer cannot keep it upright. You know why humans don't constantly fall over? Your inner ear. Although mechs are very different as far as placement, the concept it somewhat the same.

All I'm looking for is how your mecha stand up and walk without falling. You need a invoulentary balancing mechanism with moving parts, not just electronics.

Also, how could your mecha not have much electronics in them? If I'm not mistaken, the Boeing 747 has many miles (I don't know the exact number) of electrical cables running through them. And it's pretty obvious your mecha are slightly more advanced than a plane.

Listen, you two can feel secure than you have a solid argument about how that mecha in the 21st century can exist. But it simply can't. I'm not going to bother you any more, you have fun in your anime fantasy world.

One last note: FASA isn't involved in the video games as you think they are. They merley provide the information of the mechs, slap on a trademark or two, and the game developers do the rest.

I shouldn't bother anymore because you clearly know nothing about BattleTech, but I'll let you in on some brief history:

(OOC: Knowing nothing about BattleTech and knowing nothing about the BattleMechs are two completely separate things. I never bothered browsing through their mechanics. They are weapons to be used in combat. I don't need to know *why* or *how* they do what they do. As a matter of fact, I don't even care how they do what they do. Do you need to know everything about a weapon before you can use it? No. Of course not.)

BattleTech was started in the eighties with a pen-and-paper board game. Then came the books, AND THEN came the games.

(OOC: I said I played one of the RP-sort board games. Because of such heritage, the machines could not be completely realistic, as to make the game playable. There are some things you can't take in consideration in a game like that, you know. THE GAME CAME FIRST, like I said. And you can't deny it.)

Also, THE MOST EXPERIENCED mech pilots could do advanced moves with their jumpjets, but nothing like you describe. If a mech falls to the ground, it cannot use its jumpjets.

(OOC: Why is that? Does the system just somehow disable itself the moment the leg gets blown off? I thought the jumpjet system is attached to the torso of the mech, not the legs. At least on some mechs.)

You are trying to make it sound like these jumpets are these miricle rockets that can make this mech fly around like an F-14 but they're NOT.

(OOC: Actually, I'm trying to make them sound something you could use as the absolute final method of moving slowly by jumping here and there, but of course, you can't grasp the idea. And quite frankly, I don't even care.)

All I'm looking for is how your mecha stand up and walk without falling. You need a invoulentary balancing mechanism with moving parts, not just electronics.

(OOC: I never said there weren't any such mechanisms. I'm trying to RP this thread like I'm just announcing the things they do... And why would an announcer know much about the machines? I know how much you love pictures. Here's one: Click here (http://sensori.soldats.net/rcult/ingram/w_pat3.jpg). Something like that.)

Also, how could your mecha not have much electronics in them? If I'm not mistaken, the Boeing 747 has many miles (I don't know the exact number) of electrical cables running through them. And it's pretty obvious your mecha are slightly more advanced than a plane.

(OOC: There's a difference between AS MUCH AS a future tech mech and NOT HAVING MUCH OF SOMETHING. Which part of this was so hard to grasp? And these things are "slightly" smaller than planes anyway.)

Listen, you two can feel secure than you have a solid argument about how that mecha in the 21st century can exist. But it simply can't. I'm not going to bother you any more, you have fun in your anime fantasy world.

(OOC: And as most likely humans will destroy themselves before the 31st century, YOUR MECHS COULDN'T EXIST EITHER! Aa-ha! And there might be some other species out there, more advanced than us, so it still could be impossible, even if we didn't kill ourselves! So, what the hell are you talking about? The fact is that both of them *could* exist. No one just has bothered making them as of yet. Your mechs are as pure fiction as mine are. My whole NATION is based on fiction, just like yours.)

One last note: FASA isn't involved in the video games as you think they are. They merley provide the information of the mechs, slap on a trademark or two, and the game developers do the rest.

(OOC: Actually, FASA Interactive is/was a part of FASA, and the latest BattleTech based games are made by them, so you could say that they are doing them. They thought they could do good games without Activision. They *thought* they could get more money out of it that way.)

(OOC: You always come up when it's 4-5 am here and I'm so god damn tired... ARRRF. That's it.)

(OOC: The stupid picture in above post didn't work before, but now it does. It's a bit like what's on Benderland's storefront on one of the mechs. Look and see.)

The mass production of the AVS-98 Economy mark II is now well under way after some minor setbacks. We should be able to make a lot of them compared to the Ingrams and to the Helldivers. This is the first labor meant to be sold to others, so we are quite excited about this whole thing. And anxious to see if they are going to sell better than our earlier fiasco with the other project.

Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn

Then can I "pre-order" 50 of them???

Of course you can, but we haven't thought of a price for it as of yet. As the AV-98 Ingram was never supposed to hit the market, we never thought how much it would cost, and as (supposedly) an AVS-98 Economy (mk2) costs a third of the AV-98 Ingram's price to build... We have no idea as of now how much we'd ask for it. The price should not be too high, nor should it be too low. We did the mistake of keeping the prices too low once, and we are not going to do that mistake again.

Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn

Ok then, how's the estimate of 500 million each?

Ok then, how's the estimate of 500 million each?

(OOC: I thought that keeping them in the range of "real stuff" would be the best solution, since these are supposed to be 21st century stuff anyway - and they're not really that large either, you could buy a large marine ship-sort or two for 500 million. Like ~90 million for the normal one - which I'm not selling - and something like ~30 million for the cheaper version. Something like that.)

Also, THE MOST EXPERIENCED mech pilots could do advanced moves with their jumpjets, but nothing like you describe. If a mech falls to the ground, it cannot use its jumpjets.

(OOC: Why is that? Does the system just somehow disable itself the moment the leg gets blown off? I thought the jumpjet system is attached to the torso of the mech, not the legs. At least on some mechs.)


OOC: It doesn't work because the jump jets are mounted on the back of the mech, no the front. Also, depending on the size of the mech they are either located on the torso or both the torso and legs. Battletech is rooted in advanced and unproven science and even the basics are hard to understand for people who aren't fimilar with the universe.

OOC: It doesn't work because the jump jets are mounted on the back of the mech, no the front. Also, depending on the size of the mech they are either located on the torso or both the torso and legs.

(OOC: What stops the mech from falling on its frontside? Or from using its arms for something useful for a change, like, turning it to some other position? Or are the arms just some weird ornament-like things? That still doesn't really answer the question now does it.)

OOC: It doesn't work because the jump jets are mounted on the back of the mech, no the front. Also, depending on the size of the mech they are either located on the torso or both the torso and legs.

(OOC: What stops the mech from falling on its frontside? Or from using its arms for something useful for a change, like, turning it to some other position? Or are the arms just some weird ornament-like things? That still doesn't really answer the question now does it.)

OOC: Benderland explained this, although not in as much detail as I will. To pilot a mech a pilot has to wear this little contraption called a neural helmet. This helmet takes the pilot's sense of balance, feeds it to the gyroscopes computers, which makes the pilot's balance its own. Also, the arms generally don't have hands but are weapon pods and when they do they are used for hand-to-hand combat (yes, mechs do get that close).

OOC: Benderland explained this, although not in as much detail as I will. To pilot a mech a pilot has to wear this little contraption called a neural helmet. This helmet takes the pilot's sense of balance, feeds it to the gyroscopes computers, which makes the pilot's balance its own. Also, the arms generally don't have hands but are weapon pods and when they do they are used for hand-to-hand combat (yes, mechs do get that close).

(OOC: I knew all this, but it still doesn't explain why you couldn't do that. Some 'Mechs have real, actual hands. Usually 'Mechs - and any other mech for that matter - uses its hands for some particular purpose, like melee combat, but what stops you from using the hands for changing its position when its legs have been compromised? It's not like the pilot feels *pain* when the 'Mech gets damaged, that would be counterproductive. Even a human could change his position even with both of his legs... Disabled. What stops you from using the arms as support?)

--

IC: We have already deployed several of these AVS-98 Economy mark IIs on the streets of some smaller cities. Even though they are not as good as the Ingrams are, we hope that they ease the problems we have had with crime lately. We will tell more when we have more knowledge of their performance in the cities.

Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn

(OOC: I knew all this, but it still doesn't explain why you couldn't do that. Some 'Mechs have real, actual hands. Usually 'Mechs - and any other mech for that matter - uses its hands for some particular purpose, like melee combat, but what stops you from using the hands for changing its position when its legs have been compromised? It's not like the pilot feels *pain* when the 'Mech gets damaged, that would be counterproductive. Even a human could change his position even with both of his legs... Disabled. What stops you from using the arms as support?)Nothing. A mech can crawl away slowly if it's arms are intact. They don't have as much strength as a humans do in comparison. And jump jets are pointed at ground when it is upright. Activating them while on your face or back is gonna mass up the armor and weapons. In urban enviroment, you're gonna hit a building probably and in open terrain you are going to dig in and get stuck. Not good if you are on your face while your ass is a prime target for the enemy.

And jump jets are pointed at ground when it is upright. Activating them while on your face or back is gonna mass up the armor and weapons.

(OOC: But you don't have to be in an upright position, on your face or on your back now do you. And anyway, what stops the mech from using its weapons while down on the ground? Of course without all the gyroscopes you'll have to deal with the recoil in a bit different way than while on the legs - even though the recoil would damage the mech even in normal movement, but BT doesn't care about that stuff. Gyroscopes dampen the effects of recoil on movement, not on the mech. And all that energy has to go somewhere. And anyway, I don't think you'd care much about the weapons nor the armor in that situation.)

In urban enviroment, you're gonna hit a building probably and in open terrain you are going to dig in and get stuck. Not good if you are on your face while your ass is a prime target for the enemy.

(OOC: Oh right, how does the bailing mechanism work anyway? Usually, if you bail yourself out while in the wrong position, you'd most likely die. Like, bailing out on a plane with the wrong side up and close to the ground. But I guess it'd be better to try to jump - and jump, and jump, and jump - to safety before just bailing out... ;)

And the hitting a building thing might not actually be a bad thing, if you can't bail out anymore. If the building collapsed on you, it might even be better. Unless your enemy chooses to start jumping on you. Think of all the extra "armor" you have on you now. But it'd be good if your side won the fight... Since the enemy might just leave you there, sitting in your 'Mech.

And could we start ending this, uh, debate? I know it's interesting and all, but it's hijacking my research thread.)

As shown in this thread earlier, the reason why the nation of Crimmond has mechs identical to our AV-98 Ingrams, is that they bought a license to do so. They can build them, but they can't sell them. That was the deal. We have no idea how they came to our time and got back to their own, but that's not our problem. That is all for now.

Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn

And jump jets are pointed at ground when it is upright. Activating them while on your face or back is gonna mass up the armor and weapons.

(OOC: But you don't have to be in an upright position, on your face or on your back now do you. And anyway, what stops the mech from using its weapons while down on the ground? Of course without all the gyroscopes you'll have to deal with the recoil in a bit different way than while on the legs - even though the recoil would damage the mech even in normal movement, but BT doesn't care about that stuff. Gyroscopes dampen the effects of recoil on movement, not on the mech. And all that energy has to go somewhere. And anyway, I don't think you'd care much about the weapons nor the armor in that situation.)

In urban enviroment, you're gonna hit a building probably and in open terrain you are going to dig in and get stuck. Not good if you are on your face while your ass is a prime target for the enemy.

(OOC: Oh right, how does the bailing mechanism work anyway? Usually, if you bail yourself out while in the wrong position, you'd most likely die. Like, bailing out on a plane with the wrong side up and close to the ground. But I guess it'd be better to try to jump - and jump, and jump, and jump - to safety before just bailing out... ;)

And the hitting a building thing might not actually be a bad thing, if you can't bail out anymore. If the building collapsed on you, it might even be better. Unless your enemy chooses to start jumping on you. Think of all the extra "armor" you have on you now. But it'd be good if your side won the fight... Since the enemy might just leave you there, sitting in your 'Mech.

And could we start ending this, uh, debate? I know it's interesting and all, but it's hijacking my research thread.)Damn but you're thick!

The pilot would just climb out one of the cockpit hatches if it was on the ground and couldn't be righted. And the building would just trap you and trash your mech.

Also the weapons sytems ar usually line of sight. The Mech has to be facin the enemy. With the arm PPC or Gauss Rifle they could still shoot, but the enemy will probably disable you and then head off to destroy another Mech. Wasting time and ammo on a disabled Mech is not worth it.

The pilot would just climb out one of the cockpit hatches if it was on the ground and couldn't be righted. And the building would just trap you and trash your mech.

(OOC: But then again, the enemy 'Mechs might not be abiding the rules of combat that are in BattleTech, and would shoot the pilot when he's out of the 'Mech. That'd be one pilot less for the enemy. And killing a single human is a lot easier than breaching through the armor of a 'Mech. EDIT: Unless, of course, the pilot chooses to stay put, which still would be a suicide.)

Also the weapons sytems ar usually line of sight. The Mech has to be facin the enemy. With the arm PPC or Gauss Rifle they could still shoot, but the enemy will probably disable you and then head off to destroy another Mech. Wasting time and ammo on a disabled Mech is not worth it.

(OOC: Oh, so now you're saying that BattleMechs usually fight combats alone? Do you think they'd have time to start screwing around with the crippled 'Mech, when there're fully operational ones breathing down their necks? EDIT: Especially if the crippled one is doing evasive maneuvers. END OF EDIT. But you might want to disrupt their activities as long as possible, instead of just quitting the moment you lost your 'Mech's leg. If you're alone fighting a lance, then you're utterly and completely screwed, but that's not what I'm even talking about.)

Even more AVS-98 Economy Mark IIs are now in use. We will place at least a pair of these machines into the cities in question. They shall not be named, as it would make their arrival less surprising to the local criminal elements. We have heard of no problems concerning the AVS-98 Economy mark IIs already deployed in several smaller cities and towns. Everything is going quite well.

Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn

Ok then, how's the estimate of 500 million each?

(OOC: I thought that keeping them in the range of "real stuff" would be the best solution, since these are supposed to be 21st century stuff anyway - and they're not really that large either, you could buy a large marine ship-sort or two for 500 million. Like ~90 million for the normal one - which I'm not selling - and something like ~30 million for the cheaper version. Something like that.)

Ohh... I see... lol, thanks.

OOC: Benderland explained this, although not in as much detail as I will. To pilot a mech a pilot has to wear this little contraption called a neural helmet. This helmet takes the pilot's sense of balance, feeds it to the gyroscopes computers, which makes the pilot's balance its own. Also, the arms generally don't have hands but are weapon pods and when they do they are used for hand-to-hand combat (yes, mechs do get that close).

(OOC: I knew all this, but it still doesn't explain why you couldn't do that. Some 'Mechs have real, actual hands. Usually 'Mechs - and any other mech for that matter - uses its hands for some particular purpose, like melee combat, but what stops you from using the hands for changing its position when its legs have been compromised? It's not like the pilot feels *pain* when the 'Mech gets damaged, that would be counterproductive. Even a human could change his position even with both of his legs... Disabled. What stops you from using the arms as support?)


OOC: Actually, they do to an extent, kinda like getting a shallow cut. Also, when a mech looses an arm or leg there is a ghost feeling, like what an amputee feels every now and then. The artificial neural feed goes both ways.

OOC: Actually, they do to an extent, kinda like getting a shallow cut. Also, when a mech looses an arm or leg there is a ghost feeling, like what an amputee feels every now and then. The artificial neural feed goes both ways.

(OOC: Could we stop this already? To be completely frank with you, I don't really care. They could be made of origamis and kill everything with a look and it still wouldn't matter. This thread is NOT a BT debate thread, it's my triple damned research thread. I try to reply to everything people say here, but this is getting... Or more like has already gotten out of hand. I never asked for this, is that 2 or 3 pages almost full of debate on how BT "works" and how my mechas are supposedly impossible. And Benderland was already cautioned about what he did here, so could we just stop this already? Please? (This is meant for everyone who comes here to talk about BT, not just Scandinavian States. Thank you) )

--

Now we have dispatched the designated amount of AVS-98 Economy mark twos. We are going to make more of them to be in reserve, just in case, if we lose some on the streets, and of course, for sale. No more than just some minor problems have been detected with them. They can be easily fixed. And as we said before, we are willing to sell these machines. They might not be as well armored as tanks, but they can get to places tanks nor any other armored vehicles would be able to go. Even if they are law enforcement labors, they can be used as military units. There's nothing that would - or could - stop one from using them for that purpose.

Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn

Several new possible labor designs have been proposed, and they are now being tested. Nothing conclusive will be said about them quite yet, but we might be getting new and better labors in the new future. We will tell more about them when we have something concrete to show.

We are now selling AVS-98 Economy mark IIs, if anyone is interested in those.

Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn

i would like 50!!

i would like 50!!

The price of such an amount would be 1 750 million with standard weaponry, 35 million each. You would need a month before you can actually use them when you have them for optimal performance. Every pilot has a different way of actually using the machine, so that month of practice is needed for those adjustments. The data will be written on a disk, which can be put to any other labor, so every time a pilot has to use some other labor, he is not required to do the month's training period again.

But the machine is *not* meant for normal warfare, but for urban combat and for police operations. We cannot stop you from using it in a war, but still, you have been warned.

We will send the labors when we have received the money.

Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn

Thanks, money wired.

Even though we have been actively trying to create new military and police labors, we have had immense problems with the systems and gear they need. It would seem that making them is more or less either extremely hard and expensive, which renders the whole research pointless.

We will now start creating labors that can be used in construction and such, as the few original series were construction labors. That is where the name "labor" came to the mech, and it kind of stuck to them. They were never introduced to the outer world. But, we shall now start this new project, as the earlier military/police project was going nowhere. We will tell more if or when we get there.

Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn

I'll buy as many as possable

I'll buy as many as possable

Of the current police labors on sale or of the coming construction labors? We actually have only a single model on sale at the moment, that being the AVS-98 Economy mark II. We stopped building AV-98 Ingrams because of their lack of efficiency, some of them have been even cannibalized to be used on other labors and the ARL-99B is not for sale, and it is a paradrop labor, making its armor very light. But you should be able to find information about the AVS-98 from this thread.

Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn

It seems that the AVS-98 Economy mark II model of our patlabor project never got enough attention to be considered as a viable merchandise for our nation. We might be forced to stop building more and end sales, permanently. This happened to our earlier attempt to sell something, in the Deep One project, but we will continue on this one anyway. Too much is at stake. We have created several modern construction labors already, but their data will be held secret because they will not be sold.

Sales of the AVS-98 Economy mark II shall be continued for a nonspecified time, and will end when we choose to do so.

This is all we have to say, for now.

Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn

We have finally been successful in our attempts to build a new Patlabor. No specifications shall be revealed for now, but these will definitely be the next generation of our law enforcement machines. A new military model is in the making as well. More about both projects will be revealed in time.

Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn

This project has been proclaimed obsolete - not to mention very old - by the new standing government of what used to be Rlyeh Cult, and the patlabors already built will be remodeled and redone with the upcoming NERGAL designs. By this we wish to say that the project does indeed exist, but for the sake of our own convenience, we will not even name it.

You will see what we are talking about when the time comes.

http://www.nationstates.net/images/flags/uploads/rlyeh_cult.jpg
NERGAL Heavy Industries (http://www.nationstates.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/target=display_nation/nation=nergal_hvy_industries)

Whatever this new project of yours is, we doubt it can hold a wick against any of our Ravens, especially not the Prota (http://members.cox.net/resicorp/prota.htm) or the Vek (http://members.cox.net/resicorp/vek.htm) Raven Units.

We hereby challange whatever this project may be to a duel upon its completion.

We have had the designs ready for some time now. We will not say what is the current situation with the prototype. All the high tech required to build these is... Well, let us say this. We know how to build them, but the plants in Rlyeh Cult have been churning out redundant, old Patlabors for many years, so we're in the process of upgrading them. But those will stand still until we can be absolutely certain that there are from very few to no glitches in the software and in the hardware of the machine.

As to your challenge, somehow we doubt that we will ever see what we are about to create in a duel with your immensely large Ravens. We have seen from the archives that you challenged the Rlyeh Cult too, but they had to decline because of a great size mismatch. We will have to do the same, as what we are building is in fact a bit smaller than the Patlabors from Rlyeh Cult, that we can tell you.

http://www.nationstates.net/images/flags/uploads/rlyeh_cult.jpg
NERGAL Heavy Industries (http://www.nationstates.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/target=display_nation/nation=nergal_hvy_industries)

((OOC: Ah, but that was the thing. The Patlabors may be small, but in the series they were prided in defeating better-armed and larger opponents than them, like that one military labor they had early on in the series. I know these new designs are not Patlabors, but I was guessing that this principle held the same.))

((OOC: Ah, but that was the thing. The Patlabors may be small, but in the series they were prided in defeating better-armed and larger opponents than them, like that one military labor they had early on in the series. I know these new designs are not Patlabors, but I was guessing that this principle held the same.))

(OOC: Quite true, but the problem with the Patlabors was that your mechas have too much armor, for one, and the Patlabor was about as tall as your mecha's damn leg, and the weapons of a Patlabor were built to deal with other labors (which means less armor, too) and other things of their time, "their time" being current time. I based my Patlabors on the more realistic(-looking) movies anyway, partially because I haven't actually seen that much of the series, so I can't say much about it.

But what NERGAL is now creating to replace the Rlyeh Cult things is going to be small... And very light, considering it's a mecha. I don't know how they justify the mechas being in the ton range in weight, but... I guess it has something to do with the innovative power system and very crappy armor, since they have shields of sorts.)

We are proud to announce that the prototype of our innovative mecha has been finished and that it is undergoing a series of rigorous tests to root out all the possible bugs in the machine. Everything, other than this confirmation of the existence of the machine, will be withheld until we can be sure that it is in any condition to be massproduced. This is merely a safety precaution. Only after we know that everything is alright, we shall inform the general public of what we have been doing for so long.

But this is not all. After we realized that attempting to remodel the Patlabors to be what we have now created would cost more than actually building a new machine - and they still would be inferior -, we have come to the conclusion that all Patlabors are tol be scrapped, recycled and used for whatever their materials may be needed for. Construction labors may be used for an undefined period of time in Rlyeh Cult, although we reserve the right to scrap them in the future.

http://www.nationstates.net/images/flags/uploads/rlyeh_cult.jpg
NERGAL Heavy Industries (http://www.nationstates.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/target=display_nation/nation=nergal_hvy_industries)