NationStates Jolt Archive

We have settled on a final plan for the Terraformation of Mars and Venus!

As you may already know, the Martian Terraform Project is well underway. However, its completion depends on importing large amounts of atmospheric chemicals. Among these are large amounts of nitrogen, oxygen, and carbon dioxide, as well as a relatively small amount of flourine.

As for Venus, we have the opposite problem: we must remove huge amounts of atmosphere in order to reduce pressure by a total of almost 99%, perhaps up to 90% by artificial means. Simply converting the CO2 in the atmosphere into oxygen would only reduce pressure by about 4 bars, instead of the necessary 89 bars, and leave a 100m thick layer of precipitant carbon on the surface. So, here is our Plan:

Drones will be set up on orbits that will take them between Mars and Titan. At Titan, they will be able to load up on nitrogen, and then drop it off as they dip into the Martian atmosphere. More drones will be set to the task of identifying ammonious comets, and bringing them towards Mars. Artificial rings will be made around Mars as a result of the water ice, ammonia, and other chemicals from the comets, as well as imported ice from the Asteroid Belt and Kuiper Belt. Hydrogen and nitrogen will be reclaimed from the ammonia in captured comets, and the nitrogen will be dumped into the Martian atmosphere. The hydrogen will be stored, and may later be used as fuel, to generate more water, or both. Over time, large amounts of ice will be nudged out of the rings, and into the Martian atmosphere. Large amounts of ice will also be nudged into sligshot orbits which will take them to....

Venus, where they will crash into the atmosphere, and add much needed water to the dry planet. This will allow an increase in the rate of growth of the blue-green algae already present, and might also eventually cause a decrease in surface albedo, which would help cool the planet, but not until temperatures are already brought down to levels which would allow the existence of liquid water by other means. Zeppelins are to be deployed in huge fleets throughout the Venussian atmosphere, to collect and liquify it. More drones (this time on orbits that will take them between Mars and Venus- perhaps the same drones on more complex orbits could actually take a Venus-Mars-Titan-Mars-Venus route) will dip into the atmosphere and dock with the zeppelins, taking on the huge cargos of liquid CO2, hydrogen flouride, sulphuric acid, etc, and then be sent to processing stations in Martian orbit, and one or two processing stations in Venus orbit. The Zeppelin fleet may help reduce temperature by more than just chemical means- they will be solar powered, and therefore always on the daylight side. Enough of them could block enough sunlight to make a noticeable change in surface temperature.

Another possible method of removing atmosphere from Venus is to divert a comet or asteroid into such an orbit as would cause it to graze the atmosphere without actually impacting the planet. This would cast off large amounts of gas into space, as well as possibly depositing water and other useful chemicals. The downside is that it would be very difficult to capture the clouds of gas before they dissipate.

At the Venussian orbital stations, carbon will be extracted and machined into large graphite and nanotube sheets, to be positioned at the Venussian Lagrange point between Venus and Sol, so as to block sunlight and decrease the surface temperature. Note, a complete shield is not advised, as the zeppelins are likely to be solar powered, and only a 50% shield at maximum is required anyway. When the shield has served its purpose and is no longer needed, it will either be boosted into a Solar orbit and used as a solar power collector, or will be cut up and used to manufacture spacecraft hulls, etc. Other chemicals will be separated, some will be kept to sustain the station and drones, and any leftovers (such as sulphuric acid) will be sold.

Martian orbital processing stations, much of the carbon dioxide will be dumped into the atmosphere. That which is not dumped will be separated into elemental oxygen and carbon. Some oxygen will be kept to supply the stations, drones, and associated ships, but the rest will be sold as fuel, along with the hydrogen, and for life support purposes. The elemental carbon will be used to construct the Martian Elevator, a Venussian Elevator later on, and will also be a major component of the...

Ganymede and Callisto atmospheric shields. What oxygen and nitrogen is left over from the Martian effort is to be taken to Ganymede, and possibly Callisto. On Titan, it is near impossible to live on the surface because Titan's gravity is too weak to hold a sufficient atmosphere. We intend to solve that problem on Ganymede and possibly Callisto by constructing a plastic sphere around the entire moon, reinforced by nanotubes. The shield will actually be more like a net than a pressurized bubble, designed simply to slow the escape of atmospheric particles, as opposed to stopping it completely. Sufficient holes will be left for the entry and exit of spacecrafts. More oxygen and water can easily be imported from Callisto (if it does indeed have a subterranean saltwater sea, as is suspected), or...

Europa, which may also be a good place to dump Venussian CO2.

Please note, the Plan is not entirely finalized, and we encourage input from the international community. We have come up with a draft list of what the involved nations could do to contribute:

Eniqcir: Construct Elevator base stations, oversee Martian water mining, construct Venussian Zeppelins.

Space Ants of S-14:
Minis- Take care of equipment project-wide.
Reds- Drone construction and pressure dome habitats on Venus.
Blues- Assist with orbital calculations and drone / pressure dome design.
Greens- Oversee ecological development on Mars, Venus.

The Resi Corporation: Continue overseeing/directing Martian Operations.

Spacer Guilds: Build and operate orbital processing stations, assist in construction of Elevators, oversee asteroid and cometary mining operations and the construction of the Martian ice rings.

Triumvirate of Yut: Give us permission to take nitrogen from Titan, as well as provide elemental hydrogen.

~Lord Naphtaeli, Department of Environmental Engineering

The Ganymede terraformation project has been on its way for quite some time now, actually. So far, we have gotten an atmosphere of half of what is needed to sustain life. The atmosphere is still too thin to be of any real use, but we expect the atmosphere to be ready in another 8 years at most.

We were unaware of such a project. Our colonies in the Southern Hemisphere should have been informed. Could you direct us to a record of these activities?

We are still planning on constructing the atmospheric shield.

~Lord Naphtaeli, Department of Environmental Engineering.

Bump for edits.

The Resi Corporation: Continue assistance with Martian Operations.*AHEM* May we remind you that we are the ones who kicked off the Green Mars Project? Assistance my rear end.

Here's a map of the terraformed area of Mars. The area in the blue circle is claimed by us, the bright green area is what's already terraformed, and the dark green line is the path the drones take to the ice cap.
http://www.angelfire.com/ns2/corporateislands/mars.jpg

Resi, Link din't work?

Resi, Link din't work?Nope, it does now.

Mars Project, yes. But not the rest of it. And 'assist' is just diplomatic talk. I'll change that to 'oversee' or 'spearhead' if you would like.

Mars Project, yes. But not the rest of it. And 'assist' is just diplomatic talk. I'll change that to 'oversee' or 'spearhead' if you would like.OOC: Nah, I'm fine with it, I'm just being a jerk to stay IC. :lol:

OOC: Right. Well, any suggestions for improvement? I'm pretty much waiting on S-14 now....

While we at TransCorp don't think this is the best method to terraform these two planets, we are quite willing to make money off it. So we are putting a bid on developing suitable tanker drones (or manned spacecraft if that is later prefered) for transport between Venus, Mars, and Titan. Our submitted design is thus:

[[OOC: And beforehand, I apologize for the size...but it is necessary to understand scale]]

http://members.cox.net/davage/images/ImperialHydrogenSuperTanker(JustinWinters).jpg

The optimal size of each tank would be 90 meters tall by 360 meters long. Thats nearly 2,290,000 cubic meters each. Additionally, it would be quite easy to make these materials strong enough to contain the gas in liquid form, increasing the payload per trip.

Two tanks, structural gear, a simple sentient occupation zone to enable manual un/loading, a computer to interface in flight and automated un/loading, a simple fusion reactor, and two accelerated ion engines is about all the ship would need. All of the above are cheap to produce, require almost no maintainance, and able to transport the liquified gas at a constant 1g acceleration.

We in TransCorp could make four of these simple craft per year, which is more then enough given the long periods of time it takes to terraform a planet.

Due to the simplicity of design, the ease at which Oren Moore Inc. can provide us with the appropriate materials, and the production abilities of the Derkesthai complex, we ask only US $20 million per drone...a signifigantly low price!

We hope we can do buisness with you.

-Jim Gibbons, TransCorp Sales Rep

Hmm... assuming that living space can be replaced with docks for atmospheric drones, these tankers seem to be ideal.

We shall have to see what the spacedy ants of S-14 can offer first, though.

They can. We'll await the decision.

-Jim Gibbons, TransCorp Sales Rep.

Space Ants of S-14:
Minis- Take care of equipment project-wide.
Reds- Drone construction and pressure dome habitats on Venus.
Blues- Assist with orbital calculations and drone / presuure dome design. construction.
Greens- Oversee ecological development on Mars, Venus.
#ComRelay : [S-14 Colony Vessel Command] > [Eniqcir DEE] OPEN#

Excellent plan. Unfortunately, we do not have sufficient Minis to maintain as much equipment as this project requests; they are still recovering from the population crisis caused by <long time period> of predation by the larger inhabitants. We have sufficient to maintain Alpha and what other vessels we control or habitats we create; however, the Mini TechCoordinator advises us against overextending.

I will have the various OverCoordinators contact you as they come up with recommendations and requirements.

http://www.weirdozone.0catch.com/projects/nationstates/s14/blue1.jpg
AdminCoordinator 67321 of the Blue Mother of Us All

Speaking on behalf of the Mothers of Us All
Alpha Colony Vessel (S-14)

#ComRelay CLOSED#

#ComRelay : [S-14 Colony Vessel Command] > [Open, Project Teams] OPEN#

Reports incoming.

http://www.weirdozone.0catch.com/projects/nationstates/s14/blue1.jpg
AdminCoordinator 67321 of the Blue Mother of Us All
Speaking on behalf of the Mothers of Us All
Alpha Colony Vessel (S-14)

#ComRelay TRANSFERRED [S-14 Technical Command]#

Our numbers, as mentioned, are depleted. Extra-Alpha fleet technical assistance cannot be achieved without overextending our depleted numbers and must therefore be denied. Estimated time to safe expansion population density is between ten and twenty third-world orbital periods.

http://www.weirdozone.0catch.com/projects/nationstates/s14/mini1.jpg
TechCoordinator 41383 of the Mini Mothers of Us All
Speaking on behalf of the Mothers of Us All
Alpha Colony Vessel (S-14)

#ComRelay TRANSFERRED [S-14 Engineering Command]#

Give us specifications and we will build. Secondary and tertiary teams are coordinating with Blue scientists on pressure dome design and adaptations to existing equipment.

Primary teams suggest modifying our standard one-kilometer bulk transports for pressurized hauling. Using three 300 meter-diameter spherical pressure vessels, they can contain approximately 42,411,500 cubic meters of material. We have had a relatively large fleet in mothballs since the other habitation ships in the colony fleet were cannibalized; we estimate full reactivation of the hundred-vessel fleet can be attained within one third-world orbital period. We will modify them to act as robot drones pending your approval.

http://www.weirdozone.0catch.com/projects/nationstates/s14/red2.jpg
EngCoordinator 86597 of the Red Mother of Us All
Speaking on behalf of the Mothers of Us All
Alpha Colony Vessel (S-14)

#ComRelay TRANSFERRED [S-14 Science Command]#

Primary team, given current conditions on second-world "Eärendil," has completed optimal design for pressure domes that meet specified tolerances after coordination with Red engineers. Secondary teams are assisting in manufacturing acceptable robotic control structures for the decommissioned bulk freighters. Tertiary team is in brainstorming phase; it has come up with the idea of modifying null-gravity central core airbarges to act in the "zeppelin" role proposed by Eniqcir.

http://www.weirdozone.0catch.com/projects/nationstates/s14/blue2.jpg
AdminCoordinator 67321 of the Blue Mother of Us All
Speaking on behalf of the Mothers of Us All
Alpha Colony Vessel (S-14)

#ComRelay TRANSFERRED [S-14 Ecology Command]#

Managing the ecologies of two worlds intertwined shall be... difficult. We shall meditate on the matter as we ponder the connections. More thorough reports shall be forthcoming as we gain insight.

http://www.weirdozone.0catch.com/projects/nationstates/s14/green2.jpg
EcoCoordinator 20752 of the Green Mother of Us All
Speaking on behalf of the Mothers of Us All
Alpha Colony Vessel (S-14)

#ComRelay CLOSED#

The standard Foundry ship could easily be converted into a processing station to meet the requirements of this operation. We can have the full complement built and in place within a decade, working at full capacity.

We regret to inform Wazzu TransCorp that we will not be needing their services at this time. We look forward to possible future business deals.

(OOC: In other words: Sorry, we're getting it from someone else. But maybe we'll buy a tanker later. If you're lucky.)

The S-14 bulk transports seem to be the best choice at this point. Modification of the airbarges is also a good idea, as it would save us the trouble of manufacturing such a fleet ourselves.

We believe that the role of the Minis can be relegated to Micrite drones for the time being.

All that now remains is to acquire permission from the Triumvirate to acquire nitrogen from Titan. That issue can be avoided for quite some time, however. We may begin to put the Plan into action.

We note with some dismay that the Eniqciri have neglected to note that:

A) Menelmacar holds Eärendil, pretty much in its entirety.
B) We've already set into motion the first stage of that plan, the one involving crashing ice comets into Eärendil - in fact, we started that back in February.

While we have no problems with other nations aiding us in the ongoing ardaforming effort on Eärendil, we'd rather appreciate it if we were at least consulted.

At any rate, if anyone's gonna build stuff on Eärendil, it's gonna be us, at least in most cases.

http://www.weirdozone.0catch.com/projects/nationstates/sirithil/sirithilnosfeanor.gifLady Sirithil nos Fëanor
Elentári of the Eternal Noldorin Empire of Menelmacar
High Queen and Lady Protector of Elvenkind
"If it is to be war between us, it shall be war to the knife and the knife to the hilt."
~Foreign Minister Duke Paolio, The Outlands
Clicky-clicky! We Love The Iraqi Information Minister (www.welovetheiraqiinformationminister.com)

OOC:


A) Menelmacar holds Eärendil, pretty much in its entirety.

Perhaps claims, but there is no way you can hold the entire planet. And no one cared when I set up a drone colony....

B) We've already set into motion the first stage of that plan, the one involving crashing ice comets into Eärendil - in fact, we started that back in February.

Hmm, missed that post. But, ah, crashing comets into it isn't a good idea yet. We still have about 89 bars of pressure to remove, and most of that water would end up getting carted away with the rest of the atmosphere.

Back IC:
While we have no problems with other nations aiding us in the ongoing ardaforming effort on Eärendil, we'd rather appreciate it if we were at least consulted.

That's what this discussion is for! : )

OOC: Perhaps claims, but there is no way you can hold the entire planet. And no one cared when I set up a drone colony....
OOC: It's not that hard, really. A gravfleet or two rotating through at all times, and a decent enough satellite net to keep watch on the areas out of LOS of the fleet. Conceivably a concerted assault could take it away from us, but then the offending nation would have to deal with pretty much the full might of our wrath. ^_^

And if you set up a drone colony, I missed the thread... but ICly I would have at least poked you and asked what the heck you thought you were doing. ;) Anyway, yeah... it's a claim we made almost six months ago, there is still only two nations in the Venus region, and nobody's bothered to contest the claim, all of which suggests Menelmacar is more than adequately holding the planet.

PS: Minor side note: Callisto has no water, it's a dead rock. It's known for the density of its craters. It's Europa that's an iceball, and which likely has a subterranean ocean of liquid water. Which, by the way, is fresh, not salt.

http://www.weirdozone.0catch.com/projects/nationstates/sirithil/sirithilnosfeanor.gifLady Sirithil nos Fëanor
Elentári of the Eternal Noldorin Empire of Menelmacar
High Queen and Lady Protector of Elvenkind
"If it is to be war between us, it shall be war to the knife and the knife to the hilt."
~Foreign Minister Duke Paolio, The Outlands
Clicky-clicky! We Love The Iraqi Information Minister (www.welovetheiraqiinformationminister.com)

More OOC:

And if you set up a drone colony, I missed the thread... but ICly I would have at least poked you and asked what the heck you thought you were doing. ;) Anyway, yeah... it's a claim we made almost six months ago, there is still only two nations in the Venus region, and nobody's bothered to contest the claim, all of which suggests Menelmacar is more than adequately holding the planet.

That I know of and acknowledged... somewhere. If not here, in one of the other terraform-related threads. Oh, and there are 3 nations in the Venus region. I finally got around to moving one of my alternates there. You seem to have missed the bits about transferring the Worldring to Venus as well.

PS: Minor side note: Callisto has no water, it's a dead rock. It's known for the density of its craters. It's Europa that's an iceball, and which likely has a subterranean ocean of liquid water. Which, by the way, is fresh, not salt.

Someone disagrees:

From recent observations made by the Galileo spacecraft, Callisto appears to be composed of a crust about 200 kilometers (124 miles) thick. Beneath the crust is a possible salty ocean more than 10 kilometers (6 miles) thick. Beneath the ocean, is an unusual interior that is not entirely uniform nor does it vary dramatically. Prior to Galileo, scientists believed that Callisto's interior was totally undifferentiated, but Galileo data suggests that the interior is composed of compressed rock and ice with the percentage of rock increasing as depth increases. Meteorites have punctured holes in Callisto's crust, causing water to spread over the surface and forming bright rays and rings around the crater.
Cutaway of Callisto's interrior. (http://www.solarviews.com/browse/jup/calint.gif)

We suggest that resources and time may be conserved if, instead of constructing a separate processing station for Venus, processing facilities are installed on the Worldring. The Shapers of Worlds are not opposed to taking on the extra work of maintaining and operating such facilities.

OOC: Re: Callisto, I defer to your more recent information. ^^;

Could you point me to the thread about the worldring? I think I'd have noticed something like that situating itself around my planet. ;)

http://www.weirdozone.0catch.com/projects/nationstates/sirithil/sirithilnosfeanor.gifLady Sirithil nos Fëanor
Elentári of the Eternal Noldorin Empire of Menelmacar
High Queen and Lady Protector of Elvenkind
"If it is to be war between us, it shall be war to the knife and the knife to the hilt."
~Foreign Minister Duke Paolio, The Outlands
Clicky-clicky! We Love The Iraqi Information Minister (www.welovetheiraqiinformationminister.com)

OOC: Announcement of arrival to be found here (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=45541&highlight=worldring), further reference here (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=43666&highlight=worldring), still looking for original announcement of intent....

Here's what we've come up with for the atmosphere removal operations on Venus:

The converted airbarges will go about collecting and liquifying gas. Relatively small drone tankers will be constantly shuttled between the barges and the Worldring, where the cargo will be pre-processed. Some will remain on the Worldring for further Venussian operations, but most will be transferred to the converted S-14 tankers. The tankers will dock with the worldring, load up as they orbit, and then be dropped into a sligshot trajectory for Mars as they come around to the right position.

~Lord Naphtaeli, Department of Environmental Engineering


P.S. Just a little side note, incase you didn't know already: we don't have to cart away all that extra atmosphere. Once we get oceans to form, the Urey's reactions should take care of most of the rest, locking it up in carbonate rocks, like limestone. Assuming there's enough calcium and magnesium, anyway.

We find this unfortionate. Well, we can't force people to save money.

When your budget is drained and you can no longer afford to build, maintain, and operate these expensive ships, our offer will still stand.

-Jim Gibbons, TransCorp Sales Rep.

*PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT*

In order to accomodate the Spacer Guild citizens and spacecrafts, we will be reducing the Worldring's rate of spin to speeds necessary for continued orbit, but no more. As any astute citizens will realize, this means that all of the Worldring will be losing gravity. Plan accordingly.

#Guild Cargo Ship Cassandra requesting permission to dock.#

#Permission granted. Proceed on vector twenty-two mark five. Port One-Echo-Echo-Two ready to recieve you.#

#Understood. Proceeding on vector twenty-two mark five to docking bay One-Echo-Echo-Two. Cassandra out.#

Here's what we've come up with for the atmosphere removal operations on Venus:

The converted airbarges will go about collecting and liquifying gas. Relatively small drone tankers will be constantly shuttled between the barges and the Worldring, where the cargo will be pre-processed. Some will remain on the Worldring for further Venussian operations, but most will be transferred to the converted S-14 tankers. The tankers will dock with the worldring, load up as they orbit, and then be dropped into a sligshot trajectory for Mars as they come around to the right position.

~Lord Naphtaeli, Department of Environmental Engineering


P.S. Just a little side note, incase you didn't know already: we don't have to cart away all that extra atmosphere. Once we get oceans to form, the Urey's reactions should take care of most of the rest, locking it up in carbonate rocks, like limestone. Assuming there's enough calcium and magnesium, anyway.
Have you done any volume calculations? That's a HUGE quantity of gas, and it's already rather pressurized in the natural state of the atmosphere. You're talking somewhere on the order of 823 BILLION km3 of atmosphere, just on Venus, and adding Mars's in there will take you well over a trillion.

Just something you should keep in mind when figuring out how many trips you'll have to make. Surely inducing chemical changes within the existing atmosphere would be wiser?

http://www.weirdozone.0catch.com/projects/nationstates/sirithil/sirithilnosfeanor.gifLady Sirithil nos Fëanor
Elentári of the Eternal Noldorin Empire of Menelmacar
High Queen and Lady Protector of Elvenkind
"If it is to be war between us, it shall be war to the knife and the knife to the hilt."
~Foreign Minister Duke Paolio, The Outlands
Clicky-clicky! We Love The Iraqi Information Minister (www.welovetheiraqiinformationminister.com)

Just something you should keep in mind when figuring out how many trips you'll have to make. Surely inducing chemical changes within the existing atmosphere would be wiser?

We are aware of the huge amounts of gas involved, and we certainly don't plan to haul away all of it. As stated previously, once the temperature on Venus is brought down to levels where liquid water can exist, the rest of the atmospheric transformation will be taken care of by Urey's reactions, which will lock up the excess CO2 in carbonate rocks.

~Lord Naphtaeli, Department of Environmental Engineering

We have just recently been alerted to the presence of this post, and would like to offer our support to those currently on Mars. We have constructed a Phase-Gate system between Earth and Mars that reduces travel time to 1/240 of what any normal trip takes. We would be willing to allow access at a reduced rate to all those involved with this topic, though please note that WTE Members are allowed free use anyway. We have a small semi-permanent settlement in the southern hemisphere of Mars, and would appreciate any cooperation or assistance by the current inhabitants.


(OOC: I never made posts about most of this stuff on this forum, it took place on the private WTE forums, but Enigcir directed me here, so here I am. The Phase Gates basically allow access to an alternate dimension of space that is 240 times smaller. By using entrance and exit points, (gates) one may pass through this space to reduce travel time. This is exactly the same technology used in Cowboy Bebop's gates, in case you were wondering. Over the course of several years, we developed gates first from standard earth orbit to Lunar orbit, then recently from Earth to Mars. Because the gates exist in different dimensions from ours, it is possible to make the trip from the Earth gate to the Mars gate at any time (of the year) , though the actual distance varies, but you can do things like pass through what would be solid objects in our dimension.)

*bump for the spacedy ants or anyone else*

*historical bump*