NationStates Jolt Archive

The Resi Corporation is looking for partners in the Green Mars Project, an endevor to terraform Mars mechanically. We will need about 500 probes for this project, and we can supply the money for about 250 of them. We have transport lined up (fully automated, will take exactly 1 year, 8 months, and 23 days to reach Mars), and we have a landing site with the perfect soil neutrients and amount of sunlight picked out (not to mention lack of dust storms in this spot, which is an essential).

The operation will go as follows. We will send gardener probes to plant seeds and tend to the growing plants, while we will send water probes in a convoy to the northern ice cap (the closest one) to melt the ice using plutonium and collect water. The water will be slightly radioactive, but our scientists have determined that this should have little effect on plant life. In the unlikely event of a disease among the plants, our engineers have equipped our gardener units with small quantities of agents to stop all known diseases that afflict the types of plants that exist in the artificial biome that we are creating.

A coniferious forest is the biome of choice, as it would create the most oxygen without having any near-impossible details to fill (a rainforest would produce more oxygen, but how would we simulate a wet season?).

Each probe costs $50 million. Please do not donate probes of your own, as we have a design going and it would be impossible to coordinate the probes of over two nations.

http://www.angelfire.com/ns2/corporateislands/jai.jpg
CEO Jai Resi
Resi Corp.
Member of the RGGA
Discoverer of the "Corporate Islands (http://www.nationstates.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/page=display_region/region=corporate_islands)" region
Visit the Resi Corporation's Marketplace (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=45042)!

I may be interested. Contact me with further information.

Mokoville will toss in $1.25 billion, enough for 25 probes.

This:
http://www.pipian.com/stuffforchat/gdpcalc.php?nation=Mokoville

Suggests that we can afford it :D .

What is the end motive for terraforming Mars? Do contributing nations get to claim a portion of the planet?

What is the end motive for terraforming Mars? Do contributing nations get to claim a portion of the planet?
Yes, you will get land claims to uncolonised portions of Mars. There are already inhabitants on Mars, but they live in domes or under the surface. By terriforming Mars, we will open it up to any nation that doesn't have trillions of dollars to spend on domes and imported oxygen.

Very well, we will add another $5 billion, which should be enough for a total of 125 probes.

Hell, here is 10 billion I am in a good mood. (good place to try my new Space Corvettes.)

We have begun building the probes. Project Green Mars will be ready to commence in about one week RL time.

Hell, here is 10 billion I am in a good mood. (good place to try my new Space Corvettes.)
We could always use more probes, and we thank Volonia for their offer.

EFPball will donate 500 million, enough for 10 probes.

Empire of Gradenk would like to be a part of this project.Thus we would like to invest USD 30 billion in this p roject.We would like to send our scientist up there to do research on how plants and other beings can adapt to hostile environment. Additionally , we would like to search for anything that might indicate that life currently exist or thought to exist in Mars

Center for Space and Atmospheric Research,
Empire of Gradnek

Empire of Gradenk would like to be a part of this project.Thus we would like to invest USD 30 billion in this p roject.We would like to send our scientist up there to do research on how plants and other beings can adapt to hostile environment. Additionally , we would like to search for anything that might indicate that life currently exist or thought to exist in Mars

Center for Space and Atmospheric Research,
Empire of Gradnek

We could use that cash of yours to build some scout probes and search for life as an add-on to this project. As for sending your scientist up there, W are afraid that he would have some serious psychological issues after being alone for over one and a half years. He could observe the project from Earth, though, as we have a satellite in orbit arround Mars.

http://www.angelfire.com/ns2/corporateislands/jai.jpg
CEO Jai Resi
Resi Corp.
Member of the RGGA
Discoverer of the "Corporate Islands (http://www.nationstates.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/page=display_region/region=corporate_islands)" region
Visit the Resi Corporation's Marketplace (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=45042)!

yes indeed.Psychological issue might crop out . We have our own space flee albeit a small one. Do you have any ships(research) that you can lease out to us. Most of our ships are fighter crafts. Additionally, We would like you to send our own probe (only 1 ) to get High definition pics on Mars.


Is the above proposal feasible.

Thanks.

Empire of Gradenk

http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=750779#750779 Check this out...

Apparently someone is trying to build another bubble colony. This shouldn't upset our project too much, as there are already several bubble colonies on Mars.

Apparently someone is trying to build another bubble colony. This shouldn't upset our project too much, as there are already several bubble colonies on Mars.

Be careful. Some people may not like having mars turned green.

But here's a pic from IN predicting what it may look like during Terraform:

http://image.gsfc.nasa.gov/poetry/ask/terraform.jpg

http://image.gsfc.nasa.gov/poetry/ask/terraform.jpg
Yeah, but that's after I start the second phase of this project, the "global warming." As it stands, most of Mars is a freezing wasteland.

By the way, who were you talking about not liking the terraforming of Mars? Seeing as you're space-based, you should know more about this than me.

Well, there's about 70 Nations on Mars, and when I tried to land a colony on It, a few of the nations threatened to shoot my colony ships down. I diverted to Neptune, and began to mine it's liquid metal core.

I have never gone to Mars scince, though one day I shall establish a Freeport in orbit for trade.

Well, there's about 70 Nations on Mars, and when I tried to land a colony on It, a few of the nations threatened to shoot my colony ships down. I diverted to Neptune, and began to mine it's liquid metal core.

I have never gone to Mars scince, though one day I shall establish a Freeport in orbit for trade.
Eh, it's a big planet. And besides, they haven't threatened us, yet. If they do, we'll just say we picked a landing site out of their line of fire.

The operation will go as follows. We will send gardener probes to plant seeds and tend to the growing plants, while we will send water probes in a convoy to the northern ice cap (the closest one) to melt the ice using plutonium and collect water. The water will be slightly radioactive, but our scientists have determined that this should have little effect on plant life. In the unlikely event of a disease among the plants, our engineers have equipped our gardener units with small quantities of agents to stop all known diseases that afflict the types of plants that exist in the artificial biome that we are creating.

Plutonium really isn't necessary. We've already got a couple fleets of rock-scorchers extracting water, and we'd be happy to lend you a few of those, as well as give you access to some of our already-existant water stores.

Some people may not like you altering the desert, though. There are those who believe that it should be left in its pristine state, and not defiled as we've done wth Earth.

Oh well. If you need help with raising atmospheric pressure or something like that, we're here. Heck, we've already started it ourselves, to alimited extent. There are corn fields galore around our Hab' cities.

We oppose this effort. It will destroy any life that may already be on Mars.

We oppose this effort. It will destroy any life that may already be on Mars.
Yeah, considering that I think there's some nations there already. 8)

--Felix

We oppose this effort. It will destroy any life that may already be on Mars.
How so? We're only cultivating a small patch of land (10 miles in diameter), to see if it can be done. The climate elsewhere will keep the forest from spreading.

BuMp

NEWS FLASH!
Resi Corp. has finished the construction of all probes! These will be launched to Mars via Star Stride space plane tomorrow at sunrise, symbolising the rise of a new era for all of humanity! The Resi Corporation has begun plans to launch people up to the terraformed area in 25 years after the probes land, which should give them enough time to have cultivated at least a small forest.

NEWS FLASH! (again)
Today the Star Stride space planes loaded with the probes were launched. A crowd of approximately 3 million spectators (a record for any event in Resi's history) were gathered to witness the launch of the future of humanity.

We oppose this effort. It will destroy any life that may already be on Mars.
How so? We're only cultivating a small patch of land (10 miles in diameter), to see if it can be done. The climate elsewhere will keep the forest from spreading.

Just a bit of chemistry, a forest creates oxygen, and then the oxygen isn't converted into any other substance (Because there are no oxygen breathing beings exposed to the elements), therefore terraforming the entire planet.

We oppose this effort. It will destroy any life that may already be on Mars.
How so? We're only cultivating a small patch of land (10 miles in diameter), to see if it can be done. The climate elsewhere will keep the forest from spreading.

Just a bit of chemistry, a forest creates oxygen, and then the oxygen isn't converted into any other substance (Because there are no oxygen breathing beings exposed to the elements), therefore terraforming the entire planet.
Maybe we should have specified. The temperature elseware will keep the forest from spreading.

We oppose this effort. It will destroy any life that may already be on Mars.
How so? We're only cultivating a small patch of land (10 miles in diameter), to see if it can be done. The climate elsewhere will keep the forest from spreading.

Just a bit of chemistry, a forest creates oxygen, and then the oxygen isn't converted into any other substance (Because there are no oxygen breathing beings exposed to the elements), therefore terraforming the entire planet.
Maybe we should have specified. The temperature elseware will keep the forest from spreading.

But still, it'd destroy the balance of the atmosphere via the oxygen which wouldn't be depleted. Temperature would still do nothing against the oxygen.

True, but any life that exists on Mars must exist deep in the soil, and thus probably wouldn't be effected by the lack of CO2 too much.

True, but any life that exists on Mars must exist deep in the soil, and thus probably wouldn't be effected by the lack of CO2 too much.
Yes, but it would expand well beyond the "small patch of land (10 miles in diameter)" and terraform the entire planet. I'm not sure that many people will be dancing in the streets because of it...

The probes that we send up will only care for plants within that small area. Plants outside of that area will die from lack of water.

The probes that we send up will only care for plants within that small area. Plants outside of that area will die from lack of water.

But as I mentioned before, it change the chemical makeup of the atmosphere...

So? Oxygen wouldn't cause liquid water to miraculiously appear on Mars. We'd need to release greenhouse gasses into the atmosphere to achieve that effect.

Anyway, I'm going to bed. G'night!

Oh, and BUMP!

Heres a bump on the house, and:

When trees die they release carbon dioxide right? Carbon Dioxide is what causes the greenhouse effect right? That means, the carbon dioxide produced by the death of trees would heat up the planet, that'd do a fair bit to the planet. Oh, and yes, trees need water! So therefore making the trees, means making water! So it would technically make liquid water appear on Mars :D

When trees die they release carbon dioxide right? Carbon Dioxide is what causes the greenhouse effect right? That means, the carbon dioxide produced by the death of trees would heat up the planet, that'd do a fair bit to the planet. Oh, and yes, trees need water! So therefore making the trees, means making water! So it would technically make liquid water appear on Mars.

The CO2 released when the trees die will be less than or equal to the amount that they absorbed, therefore they won't add anything to the atmosphere. Which is why we're also going to be melting the polar caps. And a 10 mile patch of land isn't going to create enough oxygen to terraform mars for several hundred, probably thousand, years. The effect would be miniscule. And just oxygen by itself won't do much anyway.
And trees don't make water. We bring water to them.

Your argument has more holes than swiss cheese.

The United Socialist Republic of Biotopia is Desperate to re-enter the space race. As a nation who existed in NS only after it's first space launch after several hundered years of technolocal devolution it is imperative to regaining our lost technology and the application of new ideas that we expand into a major space program. Of cause the cost of our own limited space launches had an astromnomical drain on resources but we have seen them pay themselves off many times over in a short period.

We wish to prepose two propositions. 1) that a sustainably large area of Mars be kept 'virgin' (if you can build cities under domes why not just do the same without the city?) for cultural, historical and enviromental integirity and 2) we seek shared access to important space inferestructure. In particular it is our aim to re-build the CSE (Central Space Elevator) that would cut our launche costs by about 77% and allowing permament access to the stars again.

ultimately we would be willing to go pro-bono. We will work for you to but some of your spacewares. We once had highly developed space sciences and some of them still remain unknown or imperfected by other younger space nations. Apart from that we give $40,000,000 for one probe (is this currect abount?).

Hmm... need help with the orbital mirrors? That's about all we can do, what with not being able to survive on the surface.

In particular it is our aim to re-build the CSE (Central Space Elevator) that would cut our launche costs by about 77% and allowing permament access to the stars again.

In the meantime, you're welcome to use ours.

Spacers, how's about helping build the Martian Space Elevator as well?

I'm in!!!!! I will contribute LRRIT's top terraforming engineers to the project.

Here's my problem, there's a lot of evidence to show that at one point Mars was quite a bit like Terra. Who's to say that Terraforming Mars wouldn't show what it was like 5 million years ago?

It would be a great honour to the Biotopian people to use the facility of such a noble and compassionate peoples as yourselves. Please telegraph the Agency what fees a cargo your elevator can handle and how much time is available to us. We would like to dismantle the cumbersome and very polluting rocketry system we are forced to use but only if the space connection is assured.

Denkrik

head of the USSBSA

Spacers, how's about helping build the Martian Space Elevator as well?

Check. You supply the base station, we supply the anchor and cable?

We can get a Foundry ship started on those mirrors whenever the rest of you're ready.

WAIT A MINUTE! There will be a change of plans.

As new information has come to light reguarding the high yeild of nutrients in the Martian soil (what this experiment was trying to find out), and seeing as nations are planning to use giant mirrors to melt the ice caps without consideration for the rest of the plan, we will have to re-discuss our strategy. Any ideas?

Well, our projections are as follows:

Rock-scorchers will continue to extract the large amounts of water present in northern polar rock.

Once the Southern Cap is melted, the large amounts of CO2 released should thicken the atmosphere enough to support liquid water on the surface, and should also begin a greenhouse cycle to prevent reversion.

Plants and fuel processers will continue to generate oxygen, but at a higher rate, given the denser atmosphere. Additional oxygen may be released by harvesting atmospheric carbon in order to construct the Martian Elevator.

Once oxygen levels are high enough to sustain insect life, the terraforming process should become self-sustaining.

Sounds good, but some Martian colonists might object. Ws should put large plots of original Martian soil in bubble preserves, so that people will have pieces of the old Mars to research.

A simple matter to take care of. Who should be in charge of that section?

My people say they want to colonize Mars as it is (I'll be there in 25 RL days/NS years). It would be like moving to a forest just as the logging companies cut it down. :(

Well, would you like to live on a rusty rock, or on a beautiful plant much like a clean version of Earth?

Well, would you like to live on a rusty rock, or on a beautiful plant much like a clean version of Earth?A rusty rock! 8) Nianacio is already clean enough, and enough people want something different for this to be profitable for me.
OOC: A web site (http://www.sciencenet.org.uk/database/Physics/SolarSystem/p01020c.html) I just found on the subject says it would take at least 10,000 years to terraform Mars.

OOC: A web site (http://www.sciencenet.org.uk/database/Physics/SolarSystem/p01020c.html) I just found on the subject says it would take at least 10,000 years to terraform Mars.OOC: Using conventional methods, yes it would. We, however, are post-modern, and thus can do it much MUCH faster. Besides, don't you think your populace would get tired of living in a bubble? I mean, think about the psychological rammifications.

Using conventional methods, yes it would. We, however, are post-modern, and thus can do it much MUCH faster. Besides, don't you think your populace would get tired of living in a bubble? I mean, think about the psychological rammifications.OOC: That was OOC, so why are you responding IC?
BIC: There will be more than one level. The colony will (possibly) have an underground section, a 'biosphere' section, and a Mars section.

So you could have an "old Mars" section, and have the outside be the biosphere.

So you could have an "old Mars" section, and have the outside be the biosphere.That would be pointless; I might as well put some rocks in a hotel and call it Mars.

Then the old Mars is pointless. Why have a giant rust ball when you could have a second pristine and beautiful Earth?

Then the old Mars is pointless. Why have a giant rust ball when you could have a second pristine and beautiful Earth?If I built fake Mars on Earth, people would call it stupid, because the real thing is available. If I built fake Mars on Neo-Earth (terraformed Mars), people wouldn't be willing to pay, because it would still be fake, but far enough away to make the prices high. If I built a colony on Mars, people would say, "How cool 8)" and move there.

Then the old Mars is pointless. Why have a giant rust ball when you could have a second pristine and beautiful Earth?If I built fake Mars on Earth, people would call it stupid, because the real thing is available. If I built fake Mars on Neo-Earth (terraformed Mars), people wouldn't be willing to pay, because it would still be fake, but far enough away to make the prices high. If I built a colony on Mars, people would say, "How cool 8)" and move there.

Here's how I see it, if a Terraformed Mars is at all like Earth then there will be deserts. This means it will be just like the old Mars only 100x hotter.

Also, when you think about it, the really old Mars was a lot like Earth. We are just returning it to how it was.

Here's how I see it, if a Terraformed Mars is at all like Earth then there will be deserts. This means it will be just like the old Mars only 100x hotter.It would be interesting, but I think it shouldn't be done at least until the colonists from around the world get sick of living under bubbles. (http://personalwebs.myriad.net/tgunn/teraform.htm)

OOC: A web site I just found on the subject says it would take at least 10,000 years to terraform Mars.

OOC: For a total terraform, yes. Just to make it habitable, no.

Timeline Projections:

Seven years from mirror installation to liquid surface water.
Five more years until simple lifeforms are introduced and shallow seas form. Breathable atmosphere begins to form
Ten more years to atmosheric stabilization. Lichen, mosses, and simple plants begin to thrive.
Over the next seven to ten years, desert life forms are introduced. After that, permanent human habitation may begin.

So, after 32 years (a little over a RL month), humans can walk on the face of Mars unaided. The future of humanity will come within a lifetime! God bless technology.

This is bad, bad news. :evil: I'll try to rush space-based weapons production and the Mars program, and put arms lockers in all future spacecraft.

This is bad, bad news. :evil: I'll try to rush space-based weapons production and the Mars program, and put arms lockers in all future spacecraft.Good thing I have armed escorts for all of my transports.

Good thing I have armed escorts for all of my transports.You suspect I'll try to attack your craft? :lol:
OOC: What did that other post say? When I was replying, I went back to see if it was still there, and it wasn't.

The USSB has come into agreement with the Space Guild and is now expanding its Orbital Space Offices and the newly opened Office of Terraforming.

However we beleave that your calculations for the amount of time a breathable atmosphere would take to devlop would be considerably longer then your calculations suggest. Also and imporant warning to make: Mars has a very thin atmosphere, what is to stop all that water vapour, Co2, O2 and importantly any methane you develop from getting blown off the planet? Also the melting of the poles could cause violent floding and earthqaukes.

We request further information on the implications for Mar inhabitants - raw Mars preserves and how Mar real estate will be dealt out...
OOC(i'm sure i've given you more then enough questions)

Good thing I have armed escorts for all of my transports.You suspect I'll try to attack your craft? :lol:
OOC: What did that other post say? When I was replying, I went back to see if it was still there, and it wasn't.That other post was replying to the post that you deleted.

So Resi, If you're going ahead with the planned terraformation of Mars, We can perhaps supply construction materials (for building residential / office &/ other types of buildings after terraforming). We have lots of contractors lining up to get a cut from your explansion in mars. Btw: We would like to set up a research station there to study the effects of living in a lower gravity environment and it's affect on humonoid species, (OOC: the gravitational hold in mars is lighter than earth right?)

Center for Atmospheric & Space Research
Empire of Gradenk.

So Resi, If you're going ahead with the planned terraformation of Mars, We can perhaps supply construction materials (for building residential / office &/ other types of buildings after terraforming). We have lots of contractors lining up to get a cut from your explansion in mars. Btw: We would like to set up a research station there to study the effects of living in a lower gravity environment and it's affect on humonoid species, (OOC: the gravitational hold in mars is lighter than earth right?)

Center for Atmospheric & Space Research
Empire of Gradenk.OOC: Yes, it's lighter, but not by much.
IC: Sounds good to us, but bear in mind that you won't be the only contractors on Mars. Just send your materials and contractors over in thirty-two years, and we'll see what we can do.

Okay,thanks. We have selected a few contractors. And they are ready to to send their engineers and materials in 32 years time....(they will be sending the next generation! lol)

btw: Do we have permission to conduct and maintain a space station in Mars.Tx.


Center for Atmospheric & Space Research
Empire of Gradenk

Right, I forgot to mention that. I do not own Martian space by any means, nor does anyone else. This means that you can build whatever you want in Martian orbit.

However we beleave that your calculations for the amount of time a breathable atmosphere would take to devlop would be considerably longer then your calculations suggest. Also and imporant warning to make: Mars has a very thin atmosphere, what is to stop all that water vapour, Co2, O2 and importantly any methane you develop from getting blown off the planet? Also the melting of the poles could cause violent floding and earthqaukes.

A self-sustaining atmosphere capable of supporting human life without an oxygen tank should take a little over 22 years. The 12 year projection is only for when atmospheric pressure will reach acceptable levels. Gravity will keep the new atmosphere in place, just as it does with the current one. The melting of the poles is intended to cause flooding. Maps of the projected flood areas will be produced as soon as possible. The possibility of other violent geological activity is low.

We request further information on the implications for Mar inhabitants - raw Mars preserves and how Mars real estate will be dealt out...
OOC(i'm sure i've given you more then enough questions)

Preserves are to be handled by those who wish to use them. As of yet, they are not an integral part of the plan. Any nation who beleive that they will have need of one should build one. Real estate will be dealt out based on current land claims, and whoever is able to hold currently unclaimed lands.

Terraform Mars without everyone's permission = Collapse Earth's environment with nuclear weapons without everyone's permission

I ask you to halt your plans immediately.

Mirror construction has begun. We are currently devoting the resource of two Foundries to this project. The delicate nature of the product means that it will take quite some time, but we believe the results will be quite satisfactory.

Terraform Mars without everyone's permission = Collapse Earth's environment with nuclear weapons without everyone's permission

I ask you to halt your plans immediately.There is no way everything can be unanimous. Humanity is just too diverse. Even if you have a piece of technology that does nothing but good for the universe, there are still dissenters who call it "unnatural".

You notice that I am a corporation, run by a dictatorial CEO. We don't need permission from anyone to do anything.

OOC: I will have to find something to do about you messing with my colony's environment. It will also hurt my economy, because hundreds of millions(?) of dollars are/have being/been spent on the project. :evil:

Your analogy is flawed. Terraformation will not bring about sterilization and the death of billions. Quite the opposite, in fact.

I am afraid the project cannot postponed. For any one participant to take such actions would mean catastrophe for others.

OOC: I will have to find something to do about you messing with my colony's environment. It will also hurt my economy, because hundreds of millions(?) of dollars are/have being/been spent on the project. :evil:How's this: we'll place your colony in a giant, air-tight dome that's walls are five miles away from your colony. On the insides of that dome, we'll have TV screens that play a visual of the former Martian sky. Your people won't know the difference (until they crash into the "sky", that is)!

Why would it hurt your economy, anyway? You don't have to donate money to the project.

Why would it hurt your economy, anyway? You don't have to donate money to the project.All that money will have been wasted, because no one will want to go, any more.

Let's compare, shall we?

FAMILY GOES TO NAINACIO COLONY ON UN-TERRAFORMED MARS:
DAD: "Well, this is Mars! Look outside, kids!"
KID1: "Wow... it's red... and dusty..."
KID2:"Can we go outside, dad?"
DAD: "Er... no. We have to live in this bubble. If you go outside, your head will explode."
MOM: "Great, Dear. Give the kids nightmares."

FAMILY GOES TO NAINACIO COLONY ON TERRAFORMED MARS:
DAD: "Well, this is Mars! Look outside, kids!"
KID1: "Wow, it's just like Earth... why'd we leave there, anyway?"
DAD: "Because it was too crowded, and because daddy was offered a job as a landscaper."
KID2: "I wanna go outside!"
DAD: "Go right ahead, son! Have a fun time. Maybe we can go to the site that daddy'll be developing, later."
MOM: "I've got to say that this was a great decision. This is just like Earth, but better! More elbow room, more opportunity... Dear, you know what you're doing."

(Okay, that last part was an embelishment. A woman would never say that a man knows what he's doing)

DAD: "Because it was too crowdedYes, I suppose the tree trunks do get in the way...

Hey, the reason that people in the early eastern U.S. migrated westward was because urban areas like Philidelphia were too crowded, and the population back then was signifigantly lower that it is now. Living near L.A., I feel the lack of personal space almost daily.

If we are taking up the task of terraforming Mars (and being spearheaded by the Resi Corporation) then we should make the historical precident of preserving significant areas of Mars. It is not up to others to do this for us. we must take up the social and environmental responcibility now before it is too late.

Please consider this for the generations and generations after us.

The USSB Department of Health and Public Safety gives approval for the program in conjunction with the USSBSA (space Agency)

This would just be a reversion of how Mars was five million years ago, we arent' really changing it.

We could contribute by bringing our best nanomachine scientists to help build structures on mars, as well as build a space terminal to service it. They are heading over in a science vessel right now.

This would just be a reversion of how Mars was five million years ago, we arent' really changing it.

Well, sort of. We are bringing in many earth life forms to Mars, it would not be just like 5 million years ago. This would be an interesting evolutionary experiment to see how earth life evolves on Mars.

If we are taking up the task of terraforming Mars (and being spearheaded by the Resi Corporation) then we should make the historical precident of preserving significant areas of Mars. It is not up to others to do this for us. we must take up the social and environmental responcibility now before it is too late.

Agreed. But what is significant? The Viking sites, of course, possibly Sojourner, the first manned landing site... but what else?

GenEn is currently researching the requirements for the terraforming organisms. We expect specialized eukaryotes and prokaryotes to be prepared in time for the first seas.

This would just be a reversion of how Mars was five million years ago, we arent' really changing it.That's like saying we should kill all life on Earth and drop nuclear bombs down volcanoes to return Earth to what it was 1 gigabillion years ago...

That's like saying we should kill all life on Earth and drop nuclear bombs down volcanoes to return Earth to what it was 1 gigabillion years ago...

It is not. It's like saying that we should stop pollution, fix the ozone layer, diffuse overpopulation, and bring back all of the species that we've driven to extinction.

It is not. It's like saying that we should stop pollution, fix the ozone layer, diffuse overpopulation, and bring back all of the species that we've driven to extinction.No, that's not Earth's natural environment; this is Mars's natural environment.

No, that's not Earth's natural environment; this is Mars's natural environment.

There are two ways that statement makes any sense:

1. You accept that humans are a natural part of Earth's environment, and therefore anything we do to Earth is just fine, because it's natural.

Well, once we get to Mars, we'll be part of Mars's nature, and we can do whatever we darn well please.

Yes, that doesn't sound very nice. Which is why we're being careful about it, instead.

2. Humans aren't natural, and we've screwed up Earth. Now we're going to mess around with Mars. But you can't compare those situations, because, while we may have harmed Earth, we're only improving Mars.

Any way you cut it, you've got the worse argument. And besides, it's a moot point. We've been mining the polar caps and setting up oxygen farms and pressurized colonies for years. The terraformation has already begun, and nothing's going to stop us.

Well, once we get to Mars, we'll be part of Mars's nature, and we can do whatever we darn well please.No, you won't...
2. Humans aren't natural, and we've screwed up Earth. Now we're going to mess around with Mars. But you can't compare those situations, because, while we may have harmed Earth, we're only improving Mars.Messing with the environment to make it more acceptable to YOU is not an improvement.
Any way you cut it, you've got the worse argument.Funny, I think you have it backwards...
The terraformation has already begun, and nothing's going to stop us.Oh, REALLY? :twisted:
OOC: Your nation is 6 days old. How are you on Mars already?

Messing with the environment to make it more acceptable to YOU is not an improvement.

Messing with the environment to make it capable of supporting any life is an improvement, in our opinion.

OOC: Your nation is 6 days old. How are you on Mars already?

OOC: I'm not on Mars, but the others are. My population lives entirely on space ships and stations.

OOC: I'm not on Mars, but the others are. My population lives entirely on space ships and stations.OOC: Sorry, when you said "we", I thought that included you.

No, you won't...

I believe that's the point, we won't just screw around and do whatever we darn well please, despite the fact that one possible interpretation of your statement would lead to that conclusion.

Funny, I think you have it backwards...

A rather predictable response. No one is going to convince anyone else, so let this 'exchange of opinions' end here and now, before it devolves into a flamewar.

Oh, REALLY? :twisted:

Yes, really. Unless you have some way of blocking out the sun, but even that would only considerably impede progress, not halt it. Your other options also would only impede progress, and most of them would be considered terrorist acts or acts of war. We suggest you drop the idea.

I believe that's the point, we won't just screw around and do whatever we darn well please, despite the fact that one possible interpretation of your statement would lead to that conclusion.That's not what I was saying you wouldn't do.
A rather predictable response. No one is going to convince anyone else, so let this 'exchange of opinions' end here and now, before it devolves into a flamewar.Eh? He's allowed to say something and I'm not allowed to say it, too? :?
Your other options also would only impede progress, and most of them would be considered terrorist acts or acts of war.The region of Mars might consider you messing with the environment an act of terrorism.
We suggest you drop the idea.Nevar! :twisted:

The Funkey force will offer 10 billion for pod production. If you send us a copy of the blue prints we would be happy to manufacture some at a rapid pase

That's not what I was saying you wouldn't do.
Ah, you were referring to whether or not we'd be part of nature, then? Your statement was ambiguous. No matter, though, whether or not anything counts as 'nature' is purely a matter of opinion. Looking at it froma galactic scale, we'd be part of nature no matter where or what we did.

Eh? He's allowed to say something and I'm not allowed to say it, too? :?
You're perfectly allowed to say it, I was just pointing out that it was predictable.

I knew you would post just as I added the part on the region of Mars! :evil: Why does this happen to me so often? :cry:

Well, they have yet to make any complaint. And if they don't speak up soon, it will be too late.

Man, how'd I even get so many intelligent people on my side of the argument?

Regaurdless of anything anyone's said, the project will move forward. Stopping it at this point would be like trying to de-rail a freight train. The only way to do that would be to destroy the medium that it runs on. You can interprut that to mean either space or Mars, which are both equally impossible.

Man, how'd I even get so many intelligent people on my side of the argument?How'd I not get any other intelligent people on my side of the argument? (You're not supposed to answer that...)
Regaurdless of anything anyone's said, the project will move forward.Even if the region of Mars says it doesn't like what you're doing?
You can interprut that to mean either space or Mars, which are both equally impossible.How big a nuke would I need to destroy Mars? I wouldn't actually do it, but I am curious...

I must see if any of the hundreds of nations in my alliance want to help me...

How'd I not get any other intelligent people on my side of the argument? (You're not supposed to answer that...)Ummm... well... Fine, I won't answer it. You owe me.
Regaurdless of anything anyone's said, the project will move forward.Even if the region of Mars says it doesn't like what you're doing?If it does, then we'll start a new region. We can say that the old region of Mars is in the past.
How big a nuke would I need to destroy Mars? I wouldn't actually do it, but I am curious...A pretty darn big one. Personally, I would go for a typical James Bond villain destroy-the-world-with-a-giant-"laser" *makes quotes with hands* plan.
I must see if any of the hundreds of nations in my alliance want to help me...And what would this alliance be, and how would you plan on stopping us? War?

(OOC: I shall be gone on a camping trip with a few friends the next few days- which means The Rulls, Spacer Guilds, myself, and The Snel Race will be inactive- you don't need to hold up much, just makin' you aware. It's probably safe to assume that the mirrors will be ready for installation by Wednesday, real time.)

Ummm... well... Fine, I won't answer it. You owe me.I do? :?
If it does, then we'll start a new region. We can say that the old region of Mars is in the past.That's godmoding...or something...
And what would this alliance be, and how would you plan on stopping us? War?OOC: I am saying no more...

How's creating a new region GODMODing? It's a whole lot better than hiring pirates to take over the region for us.

How's creating a new region GODMODing? It's a whole lot better than hiring pirates to take over the region for us.It meant the part where you say that ruining their planet doesn't involve them because you're suddenly in their future...

Okay, fine. We'll say that they're a part of one instance of reality, and we're a part of another. We can fight each other, trade with each other, etc. via a small space-time tear created by our very own Professor H. J. Washu. She could probably explain it better than me, but she's on paid vacation at the moment.

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CEO Jai Resi
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Okay, fine. We'll say that they're a part of one instance of reality, and we're a part of another. We can fight each other, trade with each other, etc. via a small space-time tear created by our very own Professor H. J. Washu. She could probably explain it better than me, but she's on paid vacation at the moment.That's also unacceptable...

How so? It's perfectly peaceful.

How so? It's perfectly peaceful.Because it's making excuses to do something without interference that might not even be possible (the excuse, I mean).

Oh, just drop it. You don't need to worry about it at all if the nations of Mars Region don't complain.

Battlecrusiers and Star Destroyers might not be possible, but nobody seems to argue against their existance.

Yes, I do. I want a colony on Mars as it is. 8) Did any of you read my proposal to postpone it until the colonists from around the world get sick of living on a ball of rust?
Battlecrusiers and Star Destroyers might not be possible, but nobody seems to argue against their existance.Actually, a lot of people used to, but perhaps they're now ignoring instead of arguing?

Y'know, you seem to like living on a rust ball. I bet you have stocks in WD-40, isn't that right? :P

Y'know, you seem to like living on a rust ball. I bet you have stocks in WD-40, isn't that right? :PWD-40? :?

No, they've accepted it. We can't pospone the project, because of the number of nations involved.

Have you read over our proposal of putting your colony inside a larger bubble that simulates the surface of Mars? :P

WD-40? :?It loosens stuff up that has been rusted.

No, they've accepted it.Funny, they didn't answer my telegram to tell me they don't mind...
We can't pospone the project, because of the number of nations involved.What does that have to do with it?
Have you read over our proposal of putting your colony inside a larger bubble that simulates the surface of Mars? :PIt's not the same. :cry:

1. Ummm... could you rephrase the statement?
2. It makes it a HELL of a lot harder to stop. Impossible, in fact, seeing as how much nations have invested in this.
3. But who could tell the difference?

1. Ummm... could you rephrase the statement?Hmmm...who accepted what?
2. It makes it a HELL of a lot harder to stop. Impossible, in fact, seeing as how much nations have invested in this.I still don't understand.
3. But who could tell the difference?I don't know, but I'd hate to find out they could after I arrived there.

Please people of Space Earth and Mars we must seek an agreement. Because the terraforming of Mars is a violation of one of our international guidlines (the right of personal and national integrity) we call for a proper conciliation and arbitration process. Because we are involved in the terraforming party we cannot do this.

However we wish to state that we will only support the continuing program if proper social and environemental guidlines are laid down. How would we earthlings like it if the Martians or the Lunar colonies decided to replicate their homewrold/ moon on Earth???

The fact is that there is nothing living on the Moon, and that if anything is living on Mars it is only bacteria deep down in the soil. Personally, we have tried to reach a middle ground, but don't see how this can be achieved at this junction.

We cannot commit genocide then the entire planets (Mars) biodiversity however limited it may be. Who knows what amazing organisms my evolve if we encourage their development; possibly with the rehabilitation of the atmosphere.

Seeing as nobody has offered a third party mediating role we will suspend our own program to try and reslove the situation.

To prepose the preservation of Mars and allow the terraforming process to begin which will have great benifits to all humankind (and non humans). We add to this that no ET life forms be exposed to the planet until and extensive probing system as looked for life under the 8 point definition. The ecploration should begin as soon as possible while Mars is still untouched by terraforming.

Bumpage

The dispute over mars is precisely the reason why Quandary/Xao intends to go beyond the solar system using Genesis ships in the first place.

Any terraforming project should take the scientific interest in the planet Mars in its original form and its "natural" rights into account. Not to mention the Prime Directive. On a planet already so populated with different settlements, you will require a set of guidelines by which to operate, until then the hands-off Golden Rule should be observed. We are not against terraforming in principle, but it should not be done in an ill-considered rush. [Remember the problems the "Reds" and "Greens" had in Kim Stanley Robinson's excellent Red/Green/Blue Mars trilogy].

Sabrr Silvermane
Xenology and Astrophysics Orbital Director
:idea: ~Quandary

Problem being that we don't have the technology to travel beyond Mars, so we can't do what Quandry did. Besides, didn't a bunch of people terraform Titan, one of Jupiter's moons? No one spoke against that.

Problem being that we don't have the technology to travel beyond Mars, so we can't do what Quandry did. Besides, didn't a bunch of people terraform Titan, one of Jupiter's moons? No one spoke against that.I was not aware of this...:x

Well, many powerful countries did this. It should have attracted a nation of your age and ethics.

Would it be possible to get a sum total of the progress, so far?

Well, many powerful countries did this. It should have attracted a nation of your age and ethics.Unfortunately, I do not have the time nor the patience to read every thread created.

((OOC)) Erm people of htis thread may be interested in recent Devolpments other in Nationstates main forum.

Eh, that's not that important. Neither of that parties involved in the war over Mars will be too concerned with our project. If either side strikes any of our projects, we can gather up a large possy with relitive ease and force them to pay reperations for hampering an international project. Actually, this works to our advantage, as those native Martians who could conceivably be against this will be occupied defending their bubbles. I suppose when a couple of their bubbles break open from Seraphim's attacks they will see how much that they need an oxygen-rich atmosphere.

As for progress, the shuttles will deposit the probes on Mars tomorrow (RL time), and the giant ice cap melting mirrors are currently in action. Expect a News Flash tomorrow.

If Mars is so cold wouldn't these shallow seas freeze? We hope some work has been done to mark the draining of the massive floods that must be occuring on the planets surface.

Oops... forgot to mention the release of greenhouse gasses... :oops:

So could you please give a current run odwn of what activities are currently happening? And i am presumming that probes have proven Co2 is locked in the ice aswell. Are the mirrors vapourising the ice? (I hope they are because otherwise as soon as they move onto the next are the ice will freeze and if the ice is vapourised all the gasses are released and H2O as ice is spread around the entire planet.

The Empire of Mangala lodged this (part of a) message 9 hours ago:
As for the terraforming of Mars, any attempt at outside interference is looked upon as an exploitation of our planet. Mangala, at least, will not tolerate interference within our own borders. The current slow terraforming effort we are conducting is the result of a careful balance between our needs and the planet's "right of place," and does not need to be modified.
The Republic of Sunset lodged this message 5 hours ago:
FoxNews Mars Broadcast of the popular show 'Junk Science Alert'.

The presenter is a bespectacled woman in her late 50's. Her elongated bone structure marks her as a life-long inhabitant.

"Well Shep, this Green Mar's project is the biggest load of baloney I have ever seen a public corporation try to foist onto the public and their shareholders. 500 'Probes' is simply not enough to terraform any planet in any amount of time. Especially given the spec's we have obtained from their information office. Frankly this seems to be a carefully designed boondoggle that puts off any return so far in the future as to be unreachable. By the time these 'Probes' arrive statistics from the ROS, EOM, and DONA indicate that we will have terraformed more of the planet through simple desire for space than these probes will accomplish in a century. Remember that despite the vast arco-domes used by the various nations of Mars indiviual and small community settlements as well as mining facilities, defense bases, military bases, and corporate domes exist. While we do not have the near 100% coverage that Earth does we do have 10% of the surface covered."

"Thank you for that diatribe Mrs. Thomason. Let me ask our guest, Ret. General Herman Adams of the Sunset Defense Force, what his analysis of the whole situation is."

"Shep, it's really obvious that these nations and corporations have suffered a major intelligence breakdown. Either that or they are stupid. Really, Really, Stupid. the early Mars settlers knew what might happen and wisely built most of their cities underground, away from direct attack. That habit has continued despite a proliferation of above ground domes and buildings. In most cases domes are simply farming areas that hide hundreds of miles of tunnels. Any attempt to sieze these would be foolhardy. Most are self-sealing in case of a dome breach and a major initiative is now being pushed to replace the first dozen layers with armored bulkheads and combat stations.

In addition to the foolishness of a ground assault we have taken a look at images of the attacking fleet and found them wanting. They appear to be using boost ships - they will simply be floating fortresses in space, not capable of complex manuvering. Once they arrive in orbit they will be sitting ducks for the local defense batteries which I assure you are extensive and well trained. Overall I would liken this little endeavor to the ill-fated Deimos expedition of '56."

"You certainly sound ready, General. Of course who is in a better position to know? Wink Wink...

Broadcast continues...

We were going for a small plot of land originally, but the plan grew larger. Besides, we have more than 500 probes.

What thread is this in?

We were going for a small plot of land originally, but the plan grew larger. Besides, we have more than 500 probes.

What thread is this in?It's not in a thread; it's in the regional board. I don't know why they don't post it here.

I'll pitch in 10 billion, plus anything else you need. Also, the first and second supply and research fleets are preparing head to Mars as i speak so if anyone wants to send a scientist or something let me know.

We would like to send our terraforming expert along. Because of the history of Biotopia we have specialised in the field of 'terraforming' out own naiton so we have a bit of experience in this area. Sending our formost expert would be a great advantage to our limited space agency.

The large, pulsing dome that was the New ArAreBee Triumvirate glanced at recent events with a rather angered perception. Two days for a rework, and everything goes to hell. Transferring files to Delegatory office....

"Greetings and Welcomes Humans! As of the to day rework, I've become quite swamped in papers. As I found this first, I'll respond to this."

The Delegate's face plate, divided into thirds (one red, one blue, one green) pulsed in a pattern much like the game Simon.

"Now, we have nothing against a possible experiment on Martian soil. Mars is quite large and many areas are unclaimed or might as well be.
Now, for a total terraform, we have some major problems with.

Number One. You people seem to be forgetting that some colonies are in the zone that would be considered 'below sea level' as such, melting of the ice caps would be a bit ludicrious until we can get their approval and set up a move, or some sort of sea based nation.

Number Two. Why in heavens name did you not just ask? I mean is it really that hard. Now, a deal is quite possible, I'm sure many colonists would love to be out of their bubbles. However, doing something when those affected have no say is regarded a serious offense. I want to work out some kind of deal.

Number Three. As of now I have not met with the other regionals, however as delegate I can at least represent Mars position. And please don't just ignore or pleas, I really don't want to start a war here.

And I'm off to find that Martian War thread. Oh this is going to be a fun day..Com out"

-New ArAreBee Delegate FohGeeBee

OOC: Also note, aren't you the guy who participated in the Os Sanglants thread?

Originally I just wanted what could be thought of as an "Outdoor colony", but other nations wanted to make this terraform more massive. Our main priorities with this project are to terraform at least a small chunk of Martain soil, and not to cause any angst with the natives. It was only when the "giant mirrors" came into play that we decided that we couldn't keep this project small.

OOC: Also note, aren't you the guy who participated in the Os Sanglants thread?OOC: Nope, never heard of 'em.

We cannot commit genocide then the entire planets (Mars) biodiversity however limited it may be. Who knows what amazing organisms my evolve if we encourage their development; possibly with the rehabilitation of the atmosphere.

That's a major point of the project. (Italics added.)

Actually, this works to our advantage, as those native Martians who could conceivably be against this will be occupied defending their bubbles.

The bubbles aren't major population centers. Mostly farms and such. If they are, someone was out of their mind when designing their colony.

So could you please give a current run odwn of what activities are currently happening? And i am presumming that probes have proven Co2 is locked in the ice aswell. Are the mirrors vapourising the ice?

The Resi probes are working on a small area 'test-terraform', our rock scorchers are continuing to mine water, the mirrors are focusing on melting the southern ice cap (that would be the dry-ice cap, not the water ice cap). Farms are producing some oxygen, and more is being produced by releasing peroxides in the Martian soil.

(I hope they are because otherwise as soon as they move onto the next are the ice will freeze and if the ice is vapourised all the gasses are released and H2O as ice is spread around the entire planet.

Wouldn't happen anyway. If such were so, Mars would already be covered in ice. But, as it is, it is only cold enough at the poles, so all the ice collects there during the Martian winter.

Number Two. Why in heavens name did you not just ask? I mean is it really that hard. Now, a deal is quite possible, I'm sure many colonists would love to be out of their bubbles. However, doing something when those affected have no say is regarded a serious offense. I want to work out some kind of deal.

I'm not sure about everyone else, but I asked. Quite a while ago. No one responded. That indicates to me that you didn't care. Now you suddenly do? Anybody else see some historic parallels?

As for the colonies in flood zones, it shouldn't become a problem. If they're air-tight, they're water tight. We might have some problems with non-rigid pressure domes, but there is plenty of time left to work that all out.

Eniqcir, they're not colonies. They're nations!

Eniqcir, they're not colonies. They're nations!

...which are contained within colonies. 'Tis a question of semantics, and pointless to argue over. Whichever word you prefer, the situation is the same.

...which are contained within colonies. 'Tis a question of semantics, and pointless to argue over. Whichever word you prefer, the situation is the same.No...a colony has a nation elsewhere to go back home to. These nations don't just have colonies on Mars, the whole population lives there.

Still a question of semantics. Apparently, we have different ideolectal deffinitions of nation and colony, but, as I said before, that does not change the situation.

I'm not sure about everyone else, but I asked. Quite a while ago. No one responded. That indicates to me that you didn't care. Now you suddenly do? Anybody else see some historic parallels?

Really? Our nation came into power rather recently and I was never informed by the former delegate or the New RRB Triumvirate of such a request. Hm. Well anyway, I really don't have to many problems with this terraforming. Our species functions on a different ecosystem anyway, so we'll be staying in our little colonies regardless.

However, I would really like for the other members to respond to this to get their opinions on the subject matter.

-Delegate FohGeeBee

Repeat Post, Ignore

All IC

"This Sister Angela Edwards, Most Holy Order of Scientists, Inc.

We are here to present Sunset's various positions on Martian Terraforming. Let me start with a prayer...

May the most holy bless this endeavor down to the very atoms it is composed of. Amen.

We are not abject to a terraforming attempt, but we demand the participating nations establish a colony to have personel monitoring the terraforming. The colony can be on Phobos, Deimos, or Mars. It would be best if they could contribute to the regional forum on Mars though.

As to the effects of the terraforming project on the citizens of Sunset we feel they will be negligable. Most of our population lives in Arco-Domes with a scant 5% of the population actually living on the surface. Most of the domes are build into existing surface structures such as canyons and deep craters but I assure you our technology is significantly advanced enough that a little water won't hurt.

The insinuations that the terrain of Mars is boring is offensive. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Plus you are just asking for a lawsuit from our tourist industry.

To finish I have been asked to relay a message from the Sunset Defense Fleet. As this terraforming attempt is occuring during a period of military alert in Sunset as well as Mars in general we would ask that you do not send armed ships to Mars unless you establish a colony. If you feel you need protection - and we can understand that, given the existance of Os Sanglants - we will provide it. We cannot state with absolute conviction that incidents will not occur otherwise.

Thank you, and may the most holy be with you.

...which are contained within colonies. 'Tis a question of semantics, and pointless to argue over. Whichever word you prefer, the situation is the same.No...a colony has a nation elsewhere to go back home to. These nations don't just have colonies on Mars, the whole population lives there.

OOC:

col·o·ny ( P ) Pronunciation Key (kl-n)
n. pl. col·o·nies

A group of emigrants or their descendants who settle in a distant territory but remain subject to or closely associated with the parent country.
A territory thus settled.
A region politically controlled by a distant country; a dependency.

A group of people with the same interests or ethnic origin concentrated in a particular area: the American colony in Paris.
The area occupied by such a group.

IC:

The various arco-domes of Sunset are not colonies. Please do not refer to them as such. They are cities. Sunset was likely a colony of a Earth nation but has since grown to the point where it's culture and politics are vastly different than it's originating nation. Thus it is a nation, and has cities scattered throughout it's borders.

The Dept. of Sunset History

The insinuations that the terrain of Mars is boring is offensive. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Plus you are just asking for a lawsuit from our tourist industry.

To finish I have been asked to relay a message from the Sunset Defense Fleet. As this terraforming attempt is occuring during a period of military alert in Sunset as well as Mars in general we would ask that you do not send armed ships to Mars unless you establish a colony.

I think Mars looks quite beautiful the way it is- but beauty doesn't make for good living conditions.

As for sending armed ships, what would be the point? This is not a military operation, and anyone who attacks a civillian ship is committing an act of war, something that *would* warrant deployment of military vessels and swift retaliation. We are relying on the honor of others to protect us.

The various arco-domes of Sunset are not colonies. Please do not refer to them as such. They are cities. Sunset was likely a colony of a Earth nation but has since grown to the point where it's culture and politics are vastly different than it's originating nation. Thus it is a nation, and has cities scattered throughout it's borders.

Once more, I say our definitions differ. It is my opinion that the cities as a whole compose a nation, and each individually is a colony. But still, it is a question of semantics, a moot point. What I call it doesn't change the situation. However, if it really means something to you, I will honor your request and change our nomenclature.

OOC: oh lord I don't have time to keep up with all this this week! Somebody just go find a copy of Red Mars by Kim Stanley Robinson and cut and paste, lol.

IC:

Mangala, while open to a disscussion of modifying the planetary surface, has some serious reservations. Also, we would like a more thourough description of the process you intend to use to create an earthlike surface. will the breathable atmosphere extend all the way to the summit of Olympus Mons? because that would certainly stomp the ecology of the planet as is and would also effect our tourism. Supertensile solids would allow you to create a large biodome, perhaps to use as a test area for your plans? we can't just charge out there and start spraying nitrogen into the air...

~The Voice of the Council

[quote]As for sending armed ships, what would be the point? This is not a military operation, and anyone who attacks a civillian ship is committing an act of war, something that *would* warrant deployment of military vessels and swift retaliation. We are relying on the honor of others to protect us.

I think we are in agreement on the issue of colonies vs. cities, but let me expand on the above point for a moment - If you have not been following recent Mars activity I will restate it.

Over the past dozen years or so the Rogue nation of Os Sanglants has been staging pirate raids on the various nations of Mars. They are a nation of evil french pirates who have no perminent home and thus no base to attack. Being pirates they make a large portion of their living off raiding civilian vessels. Only once have they attacked a 'military' target.

We have tried coming to a peaceful resolution with them but they have essentially mocked us by sending a envoy who spent more time drunk than most of us spend awake. Their raids continue against civilian targets basically unabated.

Because of this most civilian vessels are now armed and most prefer to join a military flight group to avoid the threat. Thus while we do not want outside armed vessels around Mars we can appreciate the need for the vessels to be escorted and are willing to provide the escort.

Some further information about Os Sanglants - They only speak French, and their vessels resemble 18th century Earth sailing ships. OOC: Seen Treasure Planet? IC: We haven't figured out how they work, but they work and their weapons still somehow pose a threat to our vessels.

Over the past dozen years or so the Rogue nation of Os Sanglants has been staging pirate raids on the various nations of Mars. They are a nation of evil french pirates who have no perminent home and thus no base to attack. Being pirates they make a large portion of their living off raiding civilian vessels. Only once have they attacked a 'military' target.


We are aware of certain unpleasant goings on. We shall be careful. If you wish to provide an escort, do so. But any attacks on our ships will be met with forceful retribution. Only a fool would go up against weapons of the WTE, and only an incompetent would not learn of his enemy before attacking. If the pirates have been so far successful, they must be neither of these things.

We have now begun expanding our aquaduct network, and have decided to open it to public access. The current network connects the polar water mines and several springs to rock-scorcher docking stations, our Hab' cities, and several large resevoirs scattered over the planet.

The first extension will be to connect our network to the Resi Corporation test facility in order to improve efficiency, if said corporation will allow it.

Other extensions will be built for the purpose of channeling polar meltwater into predetermined areas once the atmosphere has thickened enough to support liquid surface water. This should curb undesired flooding, buying more time for those colonies that exist in flood zones.

Si nos voisins dans le Coucher du soleil vous ont dit tout de nous, oui? Du pathétique anglais à la traduction française que je pouvais obtenir je vois que vous avez quelque respect pour notre nation, non? Comme il y a quelque mesure de respect je crois que nous pouvons parvenir à un accord. Réciproquement benificial les deux de nos nations bien sûr.. L'accord est ainsi - nous fournirons la protection des divers éléments répugnants (y compris nous) et vous traverserez nos paumes avec une somme misérable. Cet accord cette fête foraine pas solide? Après toute, Mars est un endroit sauvage calme. Nous pas voudrions quoi l'événement à quelqu'un nous ferait?

Henri du Paix, l'Emissaire de Os Sanglants

My french ain't too good, but it seems that you wish us to pay you in return for protection? That is unnacceptable. We will need no protection as long as none attack us.

As for respect, there is only as much as I have for any other. I simply wish to say that I have no reason to disrespect you.

I believe he's talking about "protection" in the Mafia sense of the word. We request that you pay usfor protection from our powerful Plute Kiss virus, Os. We could probably down at least 50% of your ships with it before you could contain it. I think that qualifies as a powerful force that you don't want to mess with, no?

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Professor H. J. Washu
Resi Corp.
Member of the RGGA
Member of C.A.G.E.D.
Member of "the Alliance"
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Visit the Resi Corporation's Marketplace (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=47277)!

Here's a very crappy translation of what Os Sanglants (Bloody Bones) wrote:

If our neighbors in it sunset said you all of us, yes? Pathetic English to the French translation that I could obtain I see that you have some respect for our nation, no? As there is some measure of respect I believe that we can succeed in an agreement. Mutually benificial the two of our nations of course.. The agreement is thus - will furnish us the protection of the various repugnant elements (including we) and you will cross our palms with a miserable sum. This agreement this carnival one not solid party? After all, March is a wild place calms. We would not want what the event to someone would do us?

Henri of Peace, the emissary Bloody Bones

I believe he's talking about "protection" in the Mafia sense of the word. We request that you pay usfor protection from our powerful Plute Kiss virus, Os. We could probably down at least 50% of your ships with it before you could contain it. I think that qualifies as a powerful force that you don't want to mess with, no?

I'm quite aware of what was meant. And I still say that we will need no protection, because they won't attack anyway, unless they're cmplete fools. The Triumvirate and the WTE could mop the floor with them if they try anything... unpleasant.

...

Je vous crois anglais dirait 'Le Jeu est en cours de réalisation'. Nous avons aucun se soucie de vos virus - nos hommes sont courageux et oser. La bravoure lui-même nous protégera de vos assauts poltrons les prendra en osant aux hauteurs de gloire!

Nous terminons cette réunion maintenant avec une autre phrase anglaise - 'Le Provoque'.

Les Pirates Français Diaboliques

Right, maybe I should have specified that this is a COMPUTER virus. Computer pirates beat Technologically-reliant French Pirates any day.

Nous pas se reposons sur d'ordinateur pour faire nos enchères. Nous hissons nos propres voiles, cuisiner notre propre nourriture, et tirer nos propres détentes. Votre virus nous niera simplement de nos caricatures - nos fusils feront le feu calme et vos femmes feront le cri calme comme vos hommes tombent!

Assez! Nous avons le besoin de vin et de repos!

Henri du Paix, l'Emissaire de Os Sanglants

Then we'll probably just use superior technology to defeat what our virus doesn't. In any case, let's save strategy for times of war.

"This is John Allen coming to you from the bridge of the carrier SFV 'Murdoch' which is now operating in the martian polar regions. The carrier and it's crew are here to monitor the terraforming project being spearheaded by the Resi Corporation and it's partners. Due to recent veiled threats by Os Sanglants the President has decided to deploy part of the fleet to ensure no action can be taken by the pirates against the civilians on the ground.

I am here with Admiral Malcolm Warner-Davis. He is in charge of the fleet section deployed here. Admiral, what's your goals for this deployment?"

"We plan on using this as an opportunity to sharpen our fleet tactics. We don't expect any action from the pirates, but we will take the threat seriously and hone our responce time through a vigorous enforcement of a 'no-approach' zone of a thousand klicks around the workings. We think the stress will help prepare our sailors for any future encounters."

"That's a lot of space to defend Admiral. What kind of forces do you have at your disposal?"

"Technically I can't tell you that John, but since any idiot with a telescope and a grav car can figure it out plus the fact that I make the media rules, I will tell you. Right now we have 12 battle groups between the north and south poles."

"That's 60-odd capital ships Admiral. Quite a lot of firepower to be defending a single project."

"It's 10 million cubic klicks of space John, give or take a couple million. We can't be expected to defend it with armored grav-cars, now can we?"

"True enough Admiral. Now if I could take this a different direction, what about the rumors of a new super...."

For clarification, here's where I have stuff on Mars:

Eniqcir-
Hab' city & farms: Lunae Planum & Tempe Terra
Mining Operations: stone scorchers around the cities, as well as scattered throughout Vastitas Borealis and Planum Borealum, Argentia Planum, Argyre Planitia, and Hellas Planitia
Pipeline: One network runs from numerous water-mining docking stations in Vastitas Borealis down through Tempe Terra and Lunae Planum, then over Ganges Chasma and Eos Chasma, below Valles Marineris, around Nereidum Montes and into Argyre Planitia. Essentially one long pipe with branches at the northern end. Another network connects docking stations in Argentia Planum to each other and to stations and large reservoirs in Argyre Planitia and Hellas Planitia.

The Snel Race-
Just one colony ship located in Argyre Planitia, which gets any extra water it needs off of the pipeline.

For clarification, here's where I have stuff on Mars:

Eniqcir-
Hab' city & farms: Lunae Planum & Tempe Terra
Mining Operations: stone scorchers around the cities, as well as scattered throughout Vastitas Borealis and Planum Borealum, Argentia Planum, Argyre Planitia, and Hellas Planitia
Pipeline: One network runs from numerous water-mining docking stations in Vastitas Borealis down through Tempe Terra and Lunae Planum, then over Ganges Chasma and Eos Chasma, below Valles Marineris, around Nereidum Montes and into Argyre Planitia. Essentially one long pipe with branches at the northern end. Another network connects docking stations in Argentia Planum to each other and to stations and large reservoirs in Argyre Planitia and Hellas Planitia.

The Snel Race-
Just one colony ship located in Argyre Planitia, which gets any extra water it needs off of the pipeline.

I think we can handle that... Some of your pipelines are running through Sunset, as we developed Noctis Labrynithis and Valles Marineris as Arco-Canyon-Cities. But as has been discussed we were quite fine with the notion. Sunset extends southward from there to Solis Planum. We do have Fleet Maintenance Facilities scattered across Mars as well as the usual secret facilities.

I have begun a basic mapping of Mars - If anyone is interested in the map I am using and wants to stake their claim take a look at http://www.the-planet-mars.com/pictures/map-of-mars.jpg and sent a telegram to Sunset.

Helen Adamson, Sunset Science Minister

OOC: Rad! That's the same map I'm using! FYI, I'm using a cylindrical-projection altitude map in conjunction.

IC: As far as I can tell, the pipelines are actually suspended above your cities. I guess the drones just didn't pay attention when they laid the pipeline there, or we would've stopped them.

Also, we have determined that, surprisingly, the Valles Marineris system should NOT become flooded, unless we cause it purposely. It may, but current projections show it being left mostly dry.

The terraforming is taking place in the Lomonosov Crater and surrounding area. That is, unless that land is claimed...

Something directly related and quite important: http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=49426

Also, wouldn't be too difficult to get a pipeline out to Lomonosov, if you need it.

I am NOT marking pipelines for the time being. It can be assumed that right of way has been granted by the local goverment or a corp has subcontracted the piping needs through their own systems. Don't want to turn the map into a mishmash of crossing lines just yet.

If you can, we would like to take you up on your offer of a pipeline running to the Lomonosov area. We aren't sure who does the building, so we aren't sure who can approve this.

The Map of My Stuff: http://timesurfer.linuxcowboy.net/NewMars.gif

Resi, we'll get a pipe-layer drone on it ASAP.

Bump, and reference to more important stuff: http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=50142

Here's a map of the terraformed area of Mars. The area in the blue circle is claimed by us, the bright green area is what's already terraformed, and the dark green line is the path the drones take to the ice cap.
http://www.angelfire.com/ns2/corporateislands/mars.jpg

As a Rock Scorcher made its way back to a docking station in Lunae Planum to unload its cargo of water, it sudenly tilted, and slid to a stop. As the pilot fiddled with the controls, staring out the window with a bewildered look on his face, the vehicle started to go round in circles. After stopping the engines, the pilot climbed out of the cockpit and down the ladder to see if the trouble might be on the ground. As he walked around to the other side of the vehicle, he quickly saw what had stuck the wheels.

"Guys! Come see this!"

"What?"

"This is so frickin' cool!"

"What?"

"We're stuck in mud!"

Silence.

"Hello? We're stuck in mud! Liquid surface water, people! Check it out! If conditions are stable across the datum, Terra Meridani and Terra Sabaea are gonna be turning into aquifers pretty soon. The only bad part is that this puddle probably came from a leaky tanker. Better go report that."

-----------------

And now, only 5 years until the first seas form. We would be releasing the Hellas Reservoirs about now, except that, since their installation, another nation has decided to take up residence in Hellas Basin.

Revised Timeline:

Current: Liquid water is stable on the surface in most areas. Simple lifeforms (moslty lichen) have begun to spread. Atmospheric conditions are as follws:
Equator: 350mB; 287Aphelion, 295Perihelion
North Pole: 380mB; 260Winter, 268Summer
South Pole: 240mB; 230Winter, 262Summer

Simple plantlife and insects will be purposefully introduced over the next five years. Shallow seas form. Breathable atmosphere begins to form.
Ten more years to atmosheric stabilization. Lichen, mosses, simple plants, and insects begin to thrive.
Over the next seven to ten years, desert life forms are introduced. After that, permanent human habitation may begin.


~Lord Naphtaeli, Department of Environmental Engineering

In order to best take advantage of the new equatorial conditions, Eniqcir has decided to begin a more extensive water mining operation, consisting of well-drilling in Terra Sabaea, Terra Meridani, and Arabia Terra, as well as harnessing the flow from several natural water outlets (including Russel Crater, Green Crater, Kaiser Crater, Tiu Vallis, Mangala Vallis, and Ares Vallis).

This seems as good a place as any to post this:

I finally got around to transferring my aquaduct map (timesurfer.linuxcowboy.net/MarsRiversLakes.gif) from the oval projection to the current cylindrical projection.

Currently missing from the map: The Vastitas Network, lines to Russel, Green, and Kaiser craters (I can't freakin' find 'em! Arg!).
Anybody wondering how stuff got constructed in your territory: Most likely, it was there before you were.