NationStates Jolt Archive

I was surfing the net today and found an interesting article about a possible constitutional convention on worldnetdaily. I know they are more than a little paranoid, but that is not germane to the discussion. What is germane to the discussion is this: the argument that due to, apparently, current provisions in the US constitution and prior history, the US constitution could be completely scrapped and replaced. If this was plausible, which I highly doubt, what, my fellow NSG Americans, would you change in the US constitution and why?

Linky?

I will have to search for it, so it may take a while.

Kay.

www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=83364

I hope this works

You should post this in Beta, cos it's not gonna get what it deserves here. :(

How does that work in the new forum RoI? I ask because I have heard horror stories on this forum about the Beta forum and I do not know how it works.

How does that work in the new forum RoI? I ask because I have heard horror stories on this forum about the Beta forum and I do not know how it works.

It works the same as this Forum, plus basically everyone's migrated there now anyway.

How does that work in the new forum RoI? I ask because I have heard horror stories on this forum about the Beta forum and I do not know how it works.
...
It works the same as this Forum, plus basically everyone's migrated there now anyway.
This.

Go to http://forum.nationstates.net/viewforum.php?f=20&sid=b5e9390df74566cb4ff5ef3f069c4bb4 and click on "new topic".

I was surfing the net today and found an interesting article about a possible constitutional convention on worldnetdaily. I know they are more than a little paranoid, but that is not germane to the discussion. What is germane to the discussion is this: the argument that due to, apparently, current provisions in the US constitution and prior history, the US constitution could be completely scrapped and replaced. If this was plausible, which I highly doubt, what, my fellow NSG Americans, would you change in the US constitution and why?

Add an amendment that redefines as a cult any "religion" that opposes gay marriage and/or abortion.

And how shall a cult be treated compared to a religion?

Also, I will post a copy of the op in the Beta forum in a couple hours.

good.

Disclaimer: WorldNetDaily is an ultra-conservative, paranoid, mildly-retarded, conspiricist publication and nothing they write should be considered with anything other than scorn.

An example of their idiocy:

In a February 10, 2009, column, Janet Porter further alleged that President Obama was acting as a mole for the Soviet Union. Porter suggested that Obama was raised as an atheist and Communist and was subsequently trained by Soviet agents during the early 1990s. Porter also suggested that Obama's election as president was the result of a long-term Communist conspiracy. Porter's only evidence for these allegations was a series of uncorroborated claims made to her by an American computer programmer, who claimed to have spoken to a Russian scientist in 1994 who told him that Obama was a Communist and was being groomed by Russian agents to infiltrate the presidency.

Disclaimer: WorldNetDaily is an ultra-conservative, paranoid, mildly-retarded, conspiricist publication and nothing they write should be considered with anything other than scorn.

Half understood and taken into account.

In a February 10, 2009, column, Janet Porter further alleged that President Obama was acting as a mole for the Soviet Union. Porter suggested that Obama was raised as an atheist and Communist and was subsequently trained by Soviet agents during the early 1990s. Porter also suggested that Obama's election as president was the result of a long-term Communist conspiracy. Porter's only evidence for these allegations was a series of uncorroborated claims made to her by an American computer programmer, who claimed to have spoken to a Russian scientist in 1994 who told him that Obama was a Communist and was being groomed by Russian agents to infiltrate the presidency.

rofl.

And how shall a cult be treated compared to a religion?

Well, for starters it'd lose the standard religion benefits (tax-free status, ability to legally hold marriages and funerals, etc.).

I think the United States constitution is nearly perfect as is in it's present form.

I'm a strict constructionist, when it comes to the first ten amendments. I don't think any of the bill of rights should be subject to any changes. For the 11-27th amendments and beyond however, I think that part of the constitution is a living document and thus is subject to changes and interpretation over time.

If there was an amendment I would like to add to the constitution however, it would be a law which would require the government to run on a balanced budget. I don't think it is good to try to maintain a growing mountain of debt.

I think the United States constitution is nearly perfect as is in it's present form.

I'm a strict constructionist, when it comes to the first ten amendments. I don't think any of the bill of rights should be subject to any changes. For the 11-27th amendments and beyond however, I think that part of the constitution is a living document and thus is subject to changes and interpretation over time.

If there was an amendment I would like to add to the constitution however, it would be a law which would require the government to run on a balanced budget. I don't think it is good to try to maintain a growing mountain of debt.

Except that in some emergency situations it might not be possible to avoid debt while meeting the government's other obligations.

And I hope you didn't intend to include the abolition of slavery in that "living document, subject to changes" part.

To answer the first question: yes, such a convention is possible, and could alter the Constitution big-time. It could even rewrite it. Such a convention would be modeled on the original. It isn't anything to get worked up over.

Except that in some emergency situations it might not be possible to avoid debt while meeting the government's other obligations.

True, although most such proposals contain a supermajority exception allowed for in times of war or national emergency. I would be for that, the point being is to prevent the national debt from getting so high that it can't be payed off and the country goes bankrupt. I think we can all agree that the burden of an ever increasing mountain of debt is a bad thing. It won't do any good, if most revenue will have to one day go to just paying off interest on the debt. This is the course the United States seems to be taking, if nothing is done about fixing social security and other entitlement obligations.

And I hope you didn't intend to include the abolition of slavery in that "living document, subject to changes" part.

Of course not, I just believe that the Bill of Rights is set in stone, since the original states would not have even ratified the constitution, without the gauranteed inclusion of a bill of rights.
While it could be said that some amendments deserve the same protection, I don't think it's likely that any will face repeal or substantial change. The same cannot be said of the original ten amendments.

There are those in the liberal elite, that want to redefine the 2nd amendment as a 'collective' right to bear arms and not a citizen's right. Just as there are those within the far right that want to redefine the first amendment as not including the separation of church and state. I believe that the Bill of Rights needs to remain unchanged, so as not to allow politicians to twist our nation's founding rights and principles to fit their party's agenda.

Disclaimer: WorldNetDaily is an ultra-conservative, paranoid, mildly-retarded, conspiricist publication and nothing they write should be considered with anything other than scorn.

An example of their idiocy:

I realize this, in fact I said as much in the OP, albeit in a more polite manner. However it is not germane to the discussion at hand, despite the fact that I agree 100% with the statement above. The article merely got my gears turning... thinking that suppose, for example, a constitutional convention was actually called today and the convention decided to scrap the old constitution and/or make massive revisions to it. Now saying that there were some members of NSG that were delegates, what would you recommend and why?

As for me:

-proportional representation in the House of Representatives.

-redefine citizen (the whole illegal immigration thing has resulted in a huge mess for many families). thus children born to at least one non-american parent on US soil or children born of a US citizen and a non US citizen on foreign soil have dual citizenship. In the event of the death of one spouse, the child receives the citizenship of the living parent. Furthermore, in the event of a divorce, the child's citizenship will be determined in terms of what is in the best interests of the child.

-allow naturalized citizens to run for president, provided that said citizens have resided in and have been citizens of the US for at least 20 years.

-abolish Electoral College- use IRV instead.

-nationalization of the banking system and requirement of commodity backed currencies.

-right to secession, provided that 4/5 of the voters in the state approve of it and Congress approves by 2/3 vote.

-universal right to healthcare, housing, and education.

-stronger first admendment protections.

-right to initiative, referendum, and recall at the federal level.

-defines marriage as a religious rite to be regulated by religious authorities, all such unions would be called civil unions under the law, regardless of sexual orientation.

-nonconsecutive terms for all elected officials.

Well, for starters it'd lose the standard religion benefits (tax-free status, ability to legally hold marriages and funerals, etc.).

Would it be permissible to have the status of religion if they:

-opposed the death penalty.

-opposed the selective service (aka draft).

-believed that military expenditures should be halved.

-supported universal healthcare.

-supported incentivizing adoption instead of supporting restrictions on abortion to end abortion.

-supported universal right to housing

-believed that nature is a gift from God and should be protected as we are called to be stewards of creation, not masters.

-supported comprehensive sex education, where promiscuity is strongly discouraged and abstinence encouraged, but is not an abstinence only program.

-happened to run/organize job search services, an alternative school system, a homeless shelter, addiction rehab center, a low cost clinic, food pantry, a community garden, neighborhood block parties, among other activities.

-promoted racial equality.

These threads used to be allowed more air time then they are currently getting. It used to be 2 days.....now it is less then 24 hours.

These threads used to be allowed more air time then they are currently getting. It used to be 2 days.....now it is less then 24 hours.You can set it for a variety of lengths. The only way it can have changed from display "Last 2 days" to display "Last day" is if YOU changed it. If you want there to be multiple pages of threads like there used to be, you now have to set it to display threads for the past week, or the past month, because there just hasn't been much activity these last couple days. I bet actually your settings haven't changed at all, but seeing less than a full page of threads from the last day is a shock to your eyes.

You can set it for a variety of lengths. The only way it can have changed from display "Last 2 days" to display "Last day" is if YOU changed it. If you want there to be multiple pages of threads like there used to be, you now have to set it to display threads for the past week, or the past month, because there just hasn't been much activity these last couple days. I bet actually your settings haven't changed at all, but seeing less than a full page of threads from the last day is a shock to your eyes.
Then you must have some magic key then? If I set it for any length of time greater then the default, it always comes back to the default when I leave and come back.

Then you must have some magic key then? If I set it for any length of time greater then the default, it always comes back to the default when I leave and come back.Can't say I've ever experimented with that. The only time I would ever set it to anything but "Last Day" was when I'd been off the board for a while and wanted to check on a thread that I'd posted to, see if anybody was arguing back at me that I wouldn't want to leave without a response.

I was surfing the net today and found an interesting article about a possible constitutional convention on worldnetdaily. I know they are more than a little paranoid, but that is not germane to the discussion. What is germane to the discussion is this: the argument that due to, apparently, current provisions in the US constitution and prior history, the US constitution could be completely scrapped and replaced. If this was plausible, which I highly doubt, what, my fellow NSG Americans, would you change in the US constitution and why?

Repeal the 16th amendment and the 17th amendment.

Cap Salaries for any public official to about 1/3 of it's current level.

Prohibit companies and lobbyists from paying into campaigns.

Allow only private citizens to contribute and have a cap on it at about 10k per person.

Term limits of 2 terms maximum on any office. Prohibit them from taking another office in the government anywhere. IOW if a person has served in congress they cannot go to any other office.

Have an organization created to more easily allow for oversight of congress. IOW they ANSWER TO US, not continue to govern in the dark and expect us to take it.

Limit Supreme Court Justices to 10 years, not Life.

Change the order or succession to the President to not allow any member of the House,Senate, or Cabinet to assume the position if they have had more than 1 term in their position.

Formally dissolve the political parties. They can state their platforms clearly to the people, not be held in a group mob rules type government. Jefferson was right.

Uphold that ALL States are Sovereign. Remove the Interstate commerce clause and NEVER allow it to be re-instated.

STRICTLY prohibit any allocation of funds to 'bailout' or otherwise interfere with Capitalism/Markets. Strictly prohibit the government from controlling, owning, or coercing any business or citizen, or compel them to pay any monies based on their income.

Allow for a national sales tax, no more than 5% on any good that is not necessary for human sustenance, or basic housing, or simple transportation.

Allow any company to go bankrupt without interference.

Build a stronger military and intelligence infrastructure to deal with unforseen aggression throughout the world.

Utilize ALL natural resources to benefit Americans.

Eliminate anchor babies and strictly enforce illegal immigration laws. Not a citizen, no citizen status.

Eliminate governmental control in schools. Eliminate any department not in strict categories of Police, Military, Fire suppression, Road construction, water delivery(municipal), Intelligence, and others meeting these qualifications.

NOT welfare, corporate or public, Not social engineering, Not schools, Not frivolous studies.

Eliminate all existing drug laws. Release non violent drug violators from our prisons. Keep prisons for violent criminals. Enforce the death penalty and reduce the number of appeals one can have.

Do not allow the names of any accused to be released until after adjudication. Strict privacy laws.

Reduce the maximum amount of monetary awards to 100K or reasonable as paid to a trust for ongoing care. Not a payday.

Get out of the marriage business. Anyone can marry or divorce anyone they wish.

Limit expenditures of any elected official to a very low and force them to justify their expenditure. Free airplane rides for shopping trips or extended family is just not on the agenda.

Eliminate all religion from the secular government. No tax free organizations. No preferential treatment for any religious organization. All companies equal under the law.

Add an amendment that insures privacy for all CITIZENS. If you aren't a citizen, head for the border. Emmigration and immigration all fine. Do it the legal way.

Anyway, just some thoughts. Rip away!

Repeal the 16th amendment and the 17th amendment.

Cap Salaries for any public official to about 1/3 of it's current level.

Prohibit companies and lobbyists from paying into campaigns.

Allow only private citizens to contribute and have a cap on it at about 10k per person.

Term limits of 2 terms maximum on any office. Prohibit them from taking another office in the government anywhere. IOW if a person has served in congress they cannot go to any other office.

Have an organization created to more easily allow for oversight of congress. IOW they ANSWER TO US, not continue to govern in the dark and expect us to take it.

Limit Supreme Court Justices to 10 years, not Life.

Change the order or succession to the President to not allow any member of the House,Senate, or Cabinet to assume the position if they have had more than 1 term in their position.

Formally dissolve the political parties. They can state their platforms clearly to the people, not be held in a group mob rules type government. Jefferson was right.

Uphold that ALL States are Sovereign. Remove the Interstate commerce clause and NEVER allow it to be re-instated.

STRICTLY prohibit any allocation of funds to 'bailout' or otherwise interfere with Capitalism/Markets. Strictly prohibit the government from controlling, owning, or coercing any business or citizen, or compel them to pay any monies based on their income.

Allow for a national sales tax, no more than 5% on any good that is not necessary for human sustenance, or basic housing, or simple transportation.

Allow any company to go bankrupt without interference.

Build a stronger military and intelligence infrastructure to deal with unforseen aggression throughout the world.

Utilize ALL natural resources to benefit Americans.

Eliminate anchor babies and strictly enforce illegal immigration laws. Not a citizen, no citizen status.

Eliminate governmental control in schools. Eliminate any department not in strict categories of Police, Military, Fire suppression, Road construction, water delivery(municipal), Intelligence, and others meeting these qualifications.

NOT welfare, corporate or public, Not social engineering, Not schools, Not frivolous studies.

Eliminate all existing drug laws. Release non violent drug violators from our prisons. Keep prisons for violent criminals. Enforce the death penalty and reduce the number of appeals one can have.

Do not allow the names of any accused to be released until after adjudication. Strict privacy laws.

Reduce the maximum amount of monetary awards to 100K or reasonable as paid to a trust for ongoing care. Not a payday.

Get out of the marriage business. Anyone can marry or divorce anyone they wish.

Limit expenditures of any elected official to a very low and force them to justify their expenditure. Free airplane rides for shopping trips or extended family is just not on the agenda.

Eliminate all religion from the secular government. No tax free organizations. No preferential treatment for any religious organization. All companies equal under the law.

Add an amendment that insures privacy for all CITIZENS. If you aren't a citizen, head for the border. Emmigration and immigration all fine. Do it the legal way.

Anyway, just some thoughts. Rip away!
Quite the shopping list......good luck.....you'll need it.

Quite the shopping list......good luck.....you'll need it.

Thanks. I do wonder what oppressive regime you live in that requires luck to have an opinion however.

Thanks. I do wonder what oppressive regime you live in that requires luck to have an opinion however.
No luck required to have an opinion. Getting your shopping list filled will take more than luck and I am quite sure that you will have expired long before most of your wish list is fulfilled.

Would it be permissible to have the status of religion if they:

-opposed the death penalty.

-opposed the selective service (aka draft).

-believed that military expenditures should be halved.

-supported universal healthcare.

-supported incentivizing adoption instead of supporting restrictions on abortion to end abortion.

-supported universal right to housing

-believed that nature is a gift from God and should be protected as we are called to be stewards of creation, not masters.

-supported comprehensive sex education, where promiscuity is strongly discouraged and abstinence encouraged, but is not an abstinence only program.

-happened to run/organize job search services, an alternative school system, a homeless shelter, addiction rehab center, a low cost clinic, food pantry, a community garden, neighborhood block parties, among other activities.

-promoted racial equality.

No, because we can easily find groups that do that without the rampant homophobia.