NationStates Jolt Archive

You know, after we banished the taliban from Afghanistan, they're getting their asses kicked in Pakistan. The taliban aren't known for sanity, however, so I have a hunch they'll head elsewhere. Given that Iran is the other main type of islam (Iran is shia, taliban is sunni) and neither China nor India will even give them the time of day, I imagine they'll head off to central asia. My instincts are that they'll head off to Tajikistan, and after we help recrush them they'll try Uzbekistan (and get crushed AGAIN).

Am I reading into this too much?

They aren't the brightest.

Back in Chechnya, we had placed an RPG-7 on the ground near a village they were holding up in, and watched it with a sniper rifle. Despite that my friend had killed about 7 or 8 of them, they kept trying to get to it [and spray bullets everywhere.]. They had to be taliban, because only a few were Chechens.

You know, after we banished the taliban from Afghanistan, they're getting their asses kicked in Pakistan.
No they're not. They lost a city to a regular army, after a week or more of urban fighting. Not the first time, not the last time. And it's not like they not in Afghanistan anymore either.

The taliban aren't known for sanity, however, so I have a hunch they'll head elsewhere.
"The Taliban" don't go to places. They're local bands of poor people, bolstered by poor people from foreign countries coming to fight because their local religious leader or high school teacher told them to, and a few rich people from foreign countries, who go for the ideology (they're the dangerous ones).

There already are Islamist warbands pretty much across central Asia (and in China for that matter). They're just not as strong, because they haven't gotten the same attention in other countries, and hence not the same influx of money, weapons and cannonfodder.

And of course, Pakistan is different altogether anyways.

I never knew that Tajikistan was a country.

They aren't the brightest.

Back in Chechnya, we had placed an RPG-7 on the ground near a village they were holding up in, and watched it with a sniper rifle. Despite that my friend had killed about 7 or 8 of them, they kept trying to get to it [and spray bullets everywhere.]. They had to be taliban, because only a few were Chechens.

I shall use this to solve the chav problem in Gillingham! Except with some bling instead of an RPG. What is it about Gillingham, everyone I see there walks funny :p

Erm, ok, The fact the Taliban continue to survive on several fronts tells me that our conventional methods are not working. They will continue to survive and migrate to other nations unless we change tactics as they have. A multinational special forces war is needed.

are the tajiks fundamentalists?

surely the reason the taliban got a foothold in pakistan is because that area of pakistan is very religiously conservative so they were receptive to the taliban's religious zeal.

SNIP

watch Ross Kemp in Afghanistan when they interview the AA (ANP?) soldier about who they are fighting and he basically says Uzbek's, Iranians and Pakistanis instead of actual Afghans who only want stability

also the objective is to create an Afghan state with the power to control its territory not some batshit insane mission creep which would be a land war in Asia

They aren't the brightest.

well they are just grunts looking to overrun you but from what I hear the "officers" are spot on tactically and can read maps which kinda makes me wonder if I'm on the wrong side sometimes :p

I never knew that Tajikistan was a country.

it borders Latveria :tongue:

Erm, ok, The fact the Taliban continue to survive on several fronts tells me that our conventional methods are not working. They will continue to survive and migrate to other nations unless we change tactics as they have. A multinational special forces war is needed.

yes lets send special forces willy nilly around the globe without the host nations permission

bomb bomb Iran...or rather Operation Eagle Claw x 1000

it borders Latveria :tongue:



But I thought Tajikistan was in asi... wait a minute- Latveria isn't even a real country; you crafty swine.

yes lets send special forces willy nilly around the globe without the host nations permission

bomb bomb Iran...or rather Operation Eagle Claw x 1000

Sounds better than invading a country with out their permission. Sending those tanks willy nilly about the desert, and then being rude enough to stay there.

are the tajiks fundamentalists?

surely the reason the taliban got a foothold in pakistan is because that area of pakistan is very religiously conservative so they were receptive to the taliban's religious zeal.

No they are not fundamentalist. Most Tajiks are Muslim in name only.
The Islamic Renaissance Party of Tajikistan only got 8% of the vote.
50 years in the Soviet union helped encourage being non religious.

No they are not fundamentalist. Most Tajiks are Muslim in name only.
The Islamic Renaissance Party of Tajikistan only got 8% of the vote.
50 years in the Soviet union helped encourage being non religious.
thats what i assumed (although there is always room for a fundamentalist backlash against the restrictions of the soviets once they are gone)

i dont think the taliban could make it in tajikistan then. the locals would hate them.

thats what i assumed (although there is always room for a fundamentalist backlash against the restrictions of the soviets once they are gone)

i dont think the taliban could make it in tajikistan then. the locals would hate them.

Yeah there has been some increase in Fundamentalism among the young.
But my professor chalks that up to when teens are Neo Nazis, and a few years later.

My Professor is Iranian born poli Sci, with his focus on central Asian and the mid east. He has pictures in his office of with some of the Tajik presidents.

thats what i assumed (although there is always room for a fundamentalist backlash against the restrictions of the soviets once they are gone)

i dont think the taliban could make it in tajikistan then. the locals would hate them.

The locals in afghanistan and pakistan also hated, them though...

Thing is, Taijkistan is much weaker than pakistan -- the GDP, for example, it 167 billion for paikistan, 12 billion for afghanistan, and only 5 billion for tajikistan. The people are also less than thrilled with the government, so at least some will support the taliban simply to oust the current regime. For starters, the three main rival parties all boycotted the last election (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tajik_presidential_election,_2006) because they felt the current president would do enoguh Mugabe-ish "adjustment" of the results to win.

We could solve a lot of problems by just nuking all of the -istans into glowing green plate glass...

We could solve a lot of problems by just nuking all of the -istans into glowing green plate glass...

Graduated from the Deep Kimchi School of Foreign Policy I see.

The locals in afghanistan and pakistan also hated, them though...

Thing is, Taijkistan is much weaker than pakistan -- the GDP, for example, it 167 billion for paikistan, 12 billion for afghanistan, and only 5 billion for tajikistan. The people are also less than thrilled with the government, so at least some will support the taliban simply to oust the current regime. For starters, the three main rival parties all boycotted the last election (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tajik_presidential_election,_2006) because they felt the current president would do enoguh Mugabe-ish "adjustment" of the results to win.

Per Capita their GDP is similar to Pakistan. Also The Tajiks are much more homogeneous with 77% of the population being a Tajik.
Also almost everyone uses Tajik(a dialect of Persian) or Russian.
Taliban is mostly Pashtuns and will stick out like sore thumbs.

You know, after we banished the taliban from Afghanistan, they're getting their asses kicked in Pakistan. The taliban aren't known for sanity, however, so I have a hunch they'll head elsewhere. Given that Iran is the other main type of islam (Iran is shia, taliban is sunni) and neither China nor India will even give them the time of day, I imagine they'll head off to central asia. My instincts are that they'll head off to Tajikistan, and after we help recrush them they'll try Uzbekistan (and get crushed AGAIN).

Am I reading into this too much?

You are reading too much bad news/articles.

Taliban will be a force as long as Pak army has uses for it (and as long as Pak army itself has uses for the US).

You are reading too much bad news/articles.

Taliban will be a force as long as Pak army has uses for it (and as long as Pak army itself has uses for the US).
that sounds kinda cynical...

at least we have convinced the pakistan army that we would like them to fight the taliban for a change.

that sounds kinda cynical...

at least we have convinced the pakistan army that we would like them to fight the taliban for a change.

It likely had more to do with the taliban went farther South then Pakistan likes.

Graduated from the Deep Kimchi School of Foreign Policy I see.

If you mean i think nuclear weapons can solve lots of Americas problems then yes, I did. For example, starting a nuclear war between china and russia would return the majority of the global manufacturing capacty to the US.

the Taliban isn't that tough the IRA just beat them.

the Taliban isn't that tough the IRA just beat them.

I freaking knew the IRA would clean house.

I freaking knew the IRA would clean house.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EQxtCLgWh8
There is the video. It seems the solution to our Taliban problem is to send the IRA to the area. We will likely have to give them Northern Ireland. But it will be a small price to pay for a world free of the Taliban.

the IRA would have done better if they had given them a bayonet.
A sling shot come on. That is not for a deadly fight its for pissing off the British police during a riot.

For example, starting a nuclear war between china and russia would return the majority of the global manufacturing capacty to the US.

What manufacturing capacity?

What manufacturing capacity?

that:
http://www.freetrade.org/files/images/U.S.%20Manufacturing%20Output,%201980-2006.bmp

Main difference is US manufacturing requires less workers.

that:
http://www.freetrade.org/files/images/U.S.%20Manufacturing%20Output,%201980-2006.bmp

Main difference is US manufacturing requires less workers.

You do realize that in a nuclear exchange with Russia and China, all that manufacturing capacity is going to go up in radioactive smoke?

You do realize that in a nuclear exchange with Russia and China, all that manufacturing capacity is going to go up in radioactive smoke?

Ina nuclear exchange between Russia and China. The US would be one of the least affected. Eastern Europe and Central Asia would be worse off by far.

Ina nuclear exchange between Russia and China. The US would be one of the least affected. Eastern Europe and Central Asia would be worse off by far.

I would not be too sure about that. Not counting the major metropolitan cities and industrial centers being destroyed, any high altitude bursts would wreck electronics over a far greater region, and likely turn the national electrical grid, substations and all, into a fused mass of junk. Maybe the US would suffer less direct devastation (questionable), but the entire infrastructure it relies on to feed the populace and keep the lights on would be wrecked beyond any kind of easy repair.

I would not be too sure about that. Not counting the major metropolitan cities and industrial centers being destroyed, any high altitude bursts would wreck electronics over a far greater region, and likely turn the national electrical grid, substations and all, into a fused mass of junk. Maybe the US would suffer less direct devastation (questionable), but the entire infrastructure it relies on to feed the populace and keep the lights on would be wrecked beyond any kind of easy repair.

The curvature of the earth would provide protection from EMP.
Your Max EMP radius is something like this.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/cd/EMP_areas.JPG
Alaska would be the only major area at risk.
The rest is simply on the other side of the earth.

That still shouldn't be an issue.

* Atka is one of the southwesternmost towns of alaska, and its 92 (yes, ninety-two) people are almost west of the international date line.

* Yakutsk, with it's 210,000 people, is the 89th largest city in russia. It'll likely be the most northeastern target they strike, and even by then there's a good chance of nuclear winter.

...and the two are 2,137 miles away from each other. Anchorage (which has 40% of alaska's population-- it's more then eight tiems the size of second-place Fairbanks)) is 2,475 miles away.

So no, Alaska will not be affected.

Whee, city distance tool (http://www.geobytes.com/citydistancetool.htm).

That still shouldn't be an issue.

* Atka is one of the southwesternmost towns of alaska, and its 92 (yes, ninety-two) people are almost west of the international date line.

* Yakutsk, with it's 210,000 people, is the 89th largest city in russia. It'll likely be the most northeastern target they strike, and even by then there's a good chance of nuclear winter.

...and the two are 2,137 miles away from each other. Anchorage (which has 40% of alaska's population-- it's more then eight tiems the size of second-place Fairbanks)) is 2,475 miles away.

So no, Alaska will not be affected.

Whee, city distance tool (http://www.geobytes.com/citydistancetool.htm).

I was just saying worse case scenario. Though I doubt the Chinese would risk lobbing a missile on anything that might remotely look like a US bound trajectory.

Also another thing with EMP the closer you are to the poles the less range it has.
Nuclear winter will be an issue. But it will take time to fully affect the US and we could prep a response for it.

The curvature of the earth would provide protection from EMP.
Your Max EMP radius is something like this.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/cd/EMP_areas.JPG
Alaska would be the only major area at risk.
The rest is simply on the other side of the earth.

At an altitude of 300 miles or 480km, earth curvature isn't as much protection as you think. My calculations show a visual horizon of 2474km, and the United States is only about 4160km across. Two high altitude detonations should suffice, though there would probably be a few more than just two.

At an altitude of 300 miles or 480km, earth curvature isn't as much protection as you think. My calculations show a visual horizon of 2474km, and the United States is only about 4160km across. Two high altitude detonations should suffice, though there would probably be a few more than just two.

But in a fight between China and Russia they wont be blowing anything up over the over the US. They will blowing things up over Russia and China which is on the other side of the Pacific ocean.

Keep in mind that the hypothetical war is Russia vs China, not US vs someone. If anything, backlash over Japan and Taiwan is an issue -- for example, a 120-mile high blast, 1000-mile EMP over Vladivostok (which WOULD be one of the higher priorities, seeing as it's russia's 23rd largest city and their only real pacific port) would get ALL of japan's four main islands. Tell me, do YOU want all the computers of a good 80% of the video game companies fried?

Keep in mind that the hypothetical war is Russia vs China, not US vs someone. If anything, backlash over Japan and Taiwan is an issue -- for example, a 120-mile high blast, 1000-mile EMP over Vladivostok (which WOULD be one of the higher priorities, seeing as it's russia's 23rd largest city and their only real pacific port) would get ALL of japan's four main islands. Tell me, do YOU want all the computers of a good 80% of the video game companies fried?

Oh god stuck only playing Microsoft games.

But in a fight between China and Russia they wont be blowing anything up over the over the US. They will blowing things up over Russia and China which is on the other side of the Pacific ocean.

Hang on. I think I got the scenario off a bit. I thought Brogovia meant starting a nuclear war against China and Russia. In the case that it's the other situation, then yes, I suppose the US would survive somewhat intact. That is, assuming Russia doesn't decide to go the "all or nothing" approach and send their spare missiles to the US.

Hang on. I think I got the scenario off a bit. I thought Brogovia meant starting a nuclear war against China and Russia. In the case that it's the other situation, then yes, I suppose the US would survive somewhat intact. That is, assuming Russia doesn't decide to go the "all or nothing" approach and send their spare missiles to the US.

Yeah I think that's what happened.

Id be more worried Russians missiles would accidentally be launched at the US as they have been pointing at us for the last 50 years.

I'd say it's more likely that china "accidentally" fires some nukes at Taiwan...

And on a late note, even if russia and china are both nuked back to the stone age, keep in mind that the EU has a higher GDP than the US... (~18 trillion vs 14 trillion).

I'd say it's more likely that china "accidentally" fires some nukes at Taiwan...

And on a late note, even if russia and china are both nuked back to the stone age, keep in mind that the EU has a higher GDP than the US... (~18 trillion vs 14 trillion).

And the EU would be a lot closer to all the nukes as well.
How much of a GDP will you have after all the Poles die of radiation poisoning?

I'd say it's more likely that china "accidentally" fires some nukes at Taiwan...

And on a late note, even if russia and china are both nuked back to the stone age, keep in mind that the EU has a higher GDP than the US... (~18 trillion vs 14 trillion).

On a side note, how badly would Finland be affected?

On a side note, how badly would Finland be affected?
y'all had a big hit from the chernobyl disaster didnt you?

you better hope that should russia and china go nuclear that they do it in central asia somewhere.

Hang on. I think I got the scenario off a bit. I thought Brogovia meant starting a nuclear war against China and Russia. In the case that it's the other situation, then yes, I suppose the US would survive somewhat intact. That is, assuming Russia doesn't decide to go the "all or nothing" approach and send their spare missiles to the US.

No, they have it right. I meant between Russia and China.

On a side note, how badly would Finland be affected?

Chinese missiles are not very accurate.
I suspect anything within 500km of Saint Petersburg would be demolished to ash.

Finland is populated exclusively by molepeople so they'll do fine. :p


But seriously, it won't be good -- st. petersburg and moscow would both be major targets, and both are close enoguh to be a problem.

Finland is populated exclusively by molepeople so they'll do fine. :p


But seriously, it won't be good -- st. petersburg and moscow would both be major targets, and both are close enoguh to be a problem.

It would be very sad, most of the music I listen to comes from Finland.

Chinese missiles are not very accurate.
I suspect anything within 500km of Saint Petersburg would be demolished to ash.

Shitty chinese workmanship.

Shitty chinese workmanship.

They make up for it by shooting more at the target.

They make up for it by shooting more at the target.

We've got more missiles then them anyways. There's also the fact that we have every advantage except numbers, so a ground attack wouldn't go to well for them either.

We've got more missiles then them anyways. There's also the fact that we have every advantage except numbers, so a ground attack wouldn't go to well for them either.

I know this quote.
MacArthur 1950. Just before the Chinese intervene in Korea.

I know this quote.
MacArthur 1950. Just before the Chinese intervene in Korea.

Yes. And for once the Political General was right.

Oh, the initial shove did major damage and pushed the US forces back to the 49th, but had the US had the will to do so they could have then turned around and driven back to the Yalu. Political reality was, though, that it was better all around to lock in place and commit to a draw. Casualties past that point can be attributed solely to NK/Chinese stupidity at the negotiating table.