NationStates Jolt Archive

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/8065597.stm

"A Catholic church in Malaysia which prays to Allah has prompted a court case over who can use the word. Muslim leaders say Islam should be the only faith to use it, saying its use in other faiths could lead to confusion and conversions."


On the one hand, there are claims that it causes confusion and that the Church has exploited this confusion for the purposes of conversion.

On the other hand, all Abrahamic faiths have used it where Arabic was the local tongue. wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allah) - (but as a non-Arabic-speaking nation the word has a different and deeper cultural significance - both for Christians and Muslims)

The Malaysian High Court is going to have a judgement on this in a few days, but what do you think? What do you think they will do?

In Arabic, "Allah" is not a name, but rather a descriptive term isn't it? To us it translate to "God" To Native Americans it translates to "Great Spirit" I don't believe in the words of Mohamed but there is nothing wrong with Allah!

Disney has to give up the rights on some of its fictional copyrighted characters as well. I guess the copyrights for allah, god, jesus and similar other words are passed.

To settle this dispute once and for all I am now the only person on earth who can use the word Allah. Dispute over!

Is anyone else getting an ad for a hijab shop? :)

In Arabic, "Allah" is not a name, but rather a descriptive term isn't it? To us it translate to "God" To Native Americans it translates to "Great Spirit" I don't believe in the words of Mohamed but there is nothing wrong with Allah!

But it's no longer just a word, I think it's got a lot more significance attached to it culturally.

Disney has to give up the rights on some of its fictional copyrighted characters as well. I guess the copyrights for allah, god, jesus and similar other words are passed.

Copyrighting! Oh, I would love to see that.... Everyone pays a royalty when they use it!

I can use the word "Allah". See? I just did.

Is anyone else getting an ad for a hijab shop? :)



But it's no longer just a word, I think it's got a lot more significance attached to it culturally.



Copyrighting! Oh, I would love to see that.... Everyone pays a royalty when they use it!

Is scientology not doing something like that? :)

I can use the word "Allah". See? I just did.

Amazing! Thanks for solving that conundrum.

Allah likes cookies. This isnt nearly as hard as they make it out to be.

Amazing! Thanks for solving that conundrum.

Any time.

balls to that I'll say Allah all I Allahdamn please and I'd rather not (though Malaysia most certainly will) have some fundie cleric restricting freedom of speech for Kafir

oh and don't the rabbles usually chant "Allah is god" anyway :confused:

In Arabic, "Allah" is not a name, but rather a descriptive term isn't it? To us it translate to "God" To Native Americans it translates to "Great Spirit" I don't believe in the words of Mohamed but there is nothing wrong with Allah!

^This.

The word "Allah" has been used in Coptic churches for quite some time. And any church that has translated the rituals into Arabic. Same as how churches that have translated the rituals into Hebrew use Adonai. Same word, different language.

Beside, the Muslims (so did the Christians) copy/pasted a lot from other religions and cosmologies. And now they claim the privileged use of one of their concepts they probably (partly) borowed from another?

Nobody is allowed to use it, or any name for God with the exception of myself. I own the copywrite.

Nobody is allowed to use it, or any name for God with the exception of myself. I own the copywrite.

You're a despot!:eek:

You're a despot!:eek:

No I'm not I'm a true hero; I have done the entire human race a favor... well except for the pope. I imagine he's not going to be too happy when he finds out I backcharged him for the use of the word's God, Jesus, Lord and Savior, Holy Spirit, and a few other key phrases starting from the year 1 AD

And the Jews already know how much they owe me...

No I'm not I'm a true hero; I have done the entire human race a favor... well except for the pope. I imagine he's not going to be too happy when he finds out I backcharged him for the use of the word's God, Jesus, Lord and Savior, Holy Spirit, and a few other key phrases.

And the Jews already know how much they owe me...

:tongue:

\And the Jews already know how much they owe me...

You're not going to get your money out of them.

Where you going to find a lawyer to sue them?

:tongue:

It was as simple of tracing my ancestry back to Moses who was credited with writing the Book of Genesis, and proving (with help from some Jewish Lawyers) that it in fact makes me the heir to that particular piece of IP known as God.

You're not going to get your money out of them.

Where you going to find a lawyer to sue them?

Its all thanks to the Jews that I managed to accomplish such an amazing feet.

It always amazes me how insecure people who are supposed to be backed by an omnipotent force can be. If you are God/Allah/Vishnu/FSM's chosen people, why would you be worried about a small group of heathens challenging your power?

Why does this Allah person stick around with all this childish bickering? Isn't there something else in the universe more interesting?

I thought I read somewhere that Allah was a pre-Islamic moon deity anyways.

Anyone should use it at any time they please, so long as it is not connected to flaming and trolling. ;)

I thought I read somewhere that Allah was a pre-Islamic moon deity anyways.

I heard that too, and that it was the head of the pantheon of deities that Mohammed's people originally subscribed to.

But is it relevant how the word was used in the past, and how it is used in other countries? This is specifically Malaysia, and the particular significance the word has there, now.

I heard that too, and that it was the head of the pantheon of deities that Mohammed's people originally subscribed to.

But is it relevant how the word was used in the past, and how it is used in other countries? This is specifically Malaysia, and the particular significance the word has there, now.

Usage in the past shows they don't have a monopoly on the phrase. Besides I might want to start an Arabic pagan religion in Malaysian.

Usage in the past shows they don't have a monopoly on the phrase. Besides I might want to start an Arabic pagan religion in Malaysian.

That's pretty meaningless; go back far enough and no-one has the monopoly or ownership on anything, of any kind (territorial disputes spring immediately to mind). We are where we are now, how do we deal with it now?

That's pretty meaningless; go back far enough and no-one has the monopoly or ownership on anything, of any kind (territorial disputes spring immediately to mind). We are where we are now, how do we deal with it now?

by accepting that a word even for God can not be owned.

In Arabic, "Allah" is not a name, but rather a descriptive term isn't it?

I think so, too. By the way, it is EXACTLY the same God of Abraham etc (as both NT and Quran claim), so...

I think so, too. By the way, it is EXACTLY the same God of Abraham etc (as both NT and Quran claim), so...

Arguably, but the important thing is that the other Abrahamic religions have got it wrong as far as Islam is concerned, so they do not reflect the true nature of god.

For example, the idea of a trinitarian god is absolutely refuted by Islam. How can that be the same god, given the nature of god is fundamentally different?

Arguably, but the important thing is that the other Abrahamic religions have got it wrong as far as Islam is concerned, so they do not reflect the true nature of god.

For example, the idea of a trinitarian god is absolutely refuted by Islam. How can that be the same god, given the nature of god is fundamentally different?

We may both be wrong, but we are still trying to describe and address the same entity. We just believe fundamentally different things about said entity.

Arguably, but the important thing is that the other Abrahamic religions have got it wrong as far as Islam is concerned, so they do not reflect the true nature of god.

For example, the idea of a trinitarian god is absolutely refuted by Islam. How can that be the same god, given the nature of god is fundamentally different?

The point is that, as far as I can recall, that Islam maintains that Allah is the God of Abraham. So it is the same deity. Jews, Christians and Muslims "simply" disagree on the nature and on the creed, but the fundamental attributions (creator, omnipotent, merciful, etc.) and the identification (God of Abraham) leads to the very same deity.

392.And I, being thy LORD, say "Whatever" unto you all.

See?

The point is that, as far as I can recall, that Islam maintains that Allah is the God of Abraham. So it is the same deity. Jews, Christians and Muslims "simply" disagree on the nature and on the creed, but the fundamental attributions (creator, omnipotent, merciful, etc.) and the identification (God of Abraham) leads to the very same deity.



See?

I don't know if you came with that quote but... LMFAO! You have been sigged!

I thought I read somewhere that Allah was a pre-Islamic moon deity anyways.

So what? Iirc, "Ieo(w)a" originally described the Mediterranean god of volcanoes - the same identified by the Greeks as Ephaistos and by the Latins as Vulcanus. By the way, this form entered Latin through the Etruscans with one of the two roots they used for the declension of "Iuppiter" (nominative: Iuppiter, genitive: Iovis).

Also the Latin name for God (Deus) stems from the Indo-European name for the Sky/Sun-God. see: dyaus-pitar (sanskrit), dies (latin for day), Diòs (greek, genitive of "Zeus")...

The names of deities in the human languages change independently from the entity they describe.

I don't know if you came with that quote but... LMFAO! You have been sigged!

Oh, the quote. It's just this old guy with a beard who regularily edits my posts.

(Yay! I've been sigged by one of the hottest girls of NSG!)

Oh, the quote. It's just this old guy with a beard who regularily edits my posts.


Dumbledore?

Dumbledore?

Mhh... nope... he has no hat, and the beard is somewhat shorter.

So what? Iirc, "Ieo(w)a" originally described the Mediterranean god of volcanoes - the same identified by the Greeks as Ephaistos and by the Latins as Vulcanus. By the way, this form entered Latin through the Etruscans with one of the two roots they used for the declension of "Iuppiter" (nominative: Iuppiter, genitive: Iovis).

Also the Latin name for God (Deus) stems from the Indo-European name for the Sky/Sun-God. see: dyaus-pitar (sanskrit), dies (latin for day), Diòs (greek, genitive of "Zeus")...

The names of deities in the human languages change independently from the entity they describe.

yes but the catholic church isn't trying to restrict the usage of those words. Or any other usage. Also read Judaism was originally polytheistic but no jews have ever forbidden me from saying YHWH, ELOHIM, Adonai and so on.

Oh, the quote. It's just this old guy with a beard who regularily edits my posts.

You know Santa Clause?:eek:

Mhh... nope... he has no hat, and the beard is somewhat shorter.

god?

The point is that, as far as I can recall, that Islam maintains that Allah is the God of Abraham. So it is the same deity. Jews, Christians and Muslims "simply" disagree on the nature and on the creed, but the fundamental attributions (creator, omnipotent, merciful, etc.) and the identification (God of Abraham) leads to the very same deity.


If the creed and nature were not fundamental, everyone would get along.

The word here describes a very particular god, different in enough ways for people to have fought wars over.

If the creed and nature were not fundamental, everyone would get along.

Not necessarily. Take Christianity for example. Do the Catholics and the Protestants get along? And they both worship the same god. Their creed is the same, it's about God. But they do not get along. Of course, there's the issue of tolerance. But they don't get along.

The Protestant say Catholics practice idolatry and the Catholics say the Protestant are deserters of the faith. The Protestant don't feel Mary should be revered and the Catholics think the Protestant are sinner for not recognizing Mary's importance. But these are two denominations that believe in God, that have practically the same creed sans a few tweaks here and there. But they don't get along most of the time.

god?

He says so. But I don't believe in him.

yes but the catholic church isn't trying to restrict the usage of those words. Or any other usage. Also read Judaism was originally polytheistic but no jews have ever forbidden me from saying YHWH, ELOHIM, Adonai and so on.

Yep.

(Btw, isn't "Elohim" plural? I think that the singular is "Elohu"... ah, polytheism resurfacing)

If the creed and nature were not fundamental, everyone would get along.

The word here describes a very particular god, different in enough ways for people to have fought wars over.

Nature of deities and creed are just a pretext. The reasons war are fought for, and always have been fought for, are: personal power, control of resources, and sweeping internal problems under the mat.

It always amazes me how insecure people who are supposed to be backed by an omnipotent force can be. If you are God/Allah/Vishnu/FSM's chosen people, why would you be worried about a small group of heathens challenging your power?
This.^^ Seriously, we're trademarking the name of god now? Give me a break.

(Yay! I've been sigged by one of the hottest girls of NSG!)

Dumbledore?

Dumbledore?

Mhh... nope... she has no hat, and the beard is somewhat shorter.

He's the only guy in the history of America who's been saying 'Allah' for a long time and hasn't been taken in for questioning after 9/11:

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/muppet/images/thumb/4/48/Mumford.jpg/300px-Mumford.jpg

This.^^ Seriously, we're trademarking the name of god now? Give me a break.

Yeah I have, in fact I'm charging Jolt 5 cents every time its used uncensored.

Forgive me if I'm not up to date on Islamic Theology, but I thought Allah simply meant God?

Allahdamnit, beaten to it. :(

Nobody is allowed to use it, or any name for God with the exception of myself. I own the copywrite.
Pssst, copyright. Unless you're a copy writer?

Pssst, copyright. Unless you're a copy writer?

Ahh damn I got jipped!

(Its about time someone called me on that)

This.^^ Seriously, we're trademarking the name of god now? Give me a break.
Can't be done, anyhow, if I understand correctly. Trademarked, perhaps, but copyrighted, no.

Ahh damn I got jipped!

(Its about time someone called me on that)

gyped.

Oh, the quote. It's just this old guy with a beard who regularily edits my posts.

(Yay! I've been sigged by one of the hottest girls of NSG!)

. . .

*checks sig*

. . .

*is confused*

Dumbledore?

Dumbledore is on NSG? That is so hawt.

gyped.

Noooo.... that word has racist connotations. Jipped means the same thing but its spelling is politically correct :p

For example, the idea of a trinitarian god is absolutely refuted by Islam. How can that be the same god, given the nature of god is fundamentally different?

In the same way many Christians also reject the trinity, yet are considered worshipping the same God ;)

Dumbledore is on NSG? That is so hawt.

Wanna play with his deathstick ?

Wanna play with his deathstick ?
*waves hand*
You do not want to play with his death stick
You want to go home and rethink your life.

Courts shouldn't order anything, but it is certainly douchebaggy of the Catholics to use the Arabic word for Invisible Sky Man in a non-Arabic speaking country. Its like Jews for Jesus using Adonai in America. Underhanded, douchebaggy, but certainly not illegal.

Courts shouldn't order anything, but it is certainly douchebaggy of the Catholics to use the Arabic word for Invisible Sky Man in a non-Arabic speaking country. Its like Jews for Jesus using Adonai in America. Underhanded, douchebaggy, but certainly not illegal.

Aren't Jews for Jesus Jews ??

Dumbledore?

Quite not.

Anyone who bloody well feels like it.... don't people have any more serious problems any more these days?
Nobody can ever own words. The mere notion is insane.

Courts shouldn't order anything, but it is certainly douchebaggy of the Catholics to use the Arabic word for Invisible Sky Man in a non-Arabic speaking country. Its like Jews for Jesus using Adonai in America. Underhanded, douchebaggy, but certainly not illegal.

Why?

*Waits for the US to stop obsessing about Iran and realise that Indonesia and Saudi Arabia are potentially much more of a problem*

*Waits for the US to stop obsessing about Iran and realise that Indonesia and Saudi Arabia are potentially much more of a problem*

I think that Luxembourg is even worse.

I think that Luxembourg is even worse.

Um, how's Luxemburg a problem?

Um, how's Luxemburg a problem?

I think... and I don't know, but I'm guessing that was sarcasm.

I think... and I don't know, but I'm guessing that was sarcasm.

Nah, that was surrealism

Um, how's Luxemburg a problem?

It is from where the illuminati control the world. Duh.

It is from where the illuminati control the world. Duh.

By making this data public, we will...

*knock knock*

Hello, we are the men in black....

It is from where the illuminati control the world. Duh.

You mean Bavaria.