NationStates Jolt Archive

http://news.aol.com/article/ancient-handle-found/491574

JERUSALEM (May 20) - Archaeologists digging on Jerusalem's Mount of Olives have discovered a nearly 3,000-year-old jar handle bearing ancient Hebrew script, a find significantly older than most inscribed artifacts unearthed in the ancient city, an archaeologist said.
The Iron Age handle is inscribed with the Hebrew name Menachem, which was the name of an Israelite king and is still common among Jews.
The inscription also includes a partly intact letter, the Hebrew character "lamed," meaning "to." That suggests the jar was a gift to someone named Menachem, said Ron Beeri, who directed the excavation for the Israel Antiquities Authority. There is no indication the inscription refers to the king himself.
The name and similar variants have been found on Egyptian pottery dating back 3,500 years, and the Bible lists Menachem Ben Gadi as an ancient king of Israel. But this is the first time an artifact bearing the name has been unearthed in Jerusalem, Beeri said.
"It's important because it shows that they actually used the name Menachem during that period," Beeri said. "It's not just from the Bible, but it's also in the archaeological record."
Based on the style of the inscription, he dated the handle to around 900 B.C., the time of the first Jewish Temple in Jerusalem as recounted in the Bible.
The vessel the handle was attached to did not survive, so it is impossible to tell what it was used for, Beeri said. Similar vessels were known to have held products like oil or wheat.
Construction workers uncovered the archaeological site while digging the foundation for a girl's school being built in the area, Beeri said.

I'm a bit confused. Let me see if I got this right. The importance of this handle seems to be to set the record straight that the name Menachem was used by the Jewish people 3,000 years ago and that it is not only a Bible name? But the name is commonly used now. For those of you who are interested, Menachem or Menahem is mentioned on the Bible (http://bible.tmtm.com/wiki/Menahem) several times it seems.

The son of Gadi, and successor of Shallum, king of Israel, whom he slew. After a reign of about ten years (B.C. 771-760) he died, leaving the throne to his son Pekahiah. His reign was one of cruelty and oppression (2Kg 15:14ff). During his reign, Pul, king of Assyria, came with a powerful force against Israel, but was induced to retire by a gift from Menahem of 1,000 talents of silver.

He is also mentioned as a teacher during King Herod's time.
http://bible.tmtm.com/wiki/Menahem_the_Essene

But, what about the importance of the handle as an archaelogical artifact? Or it's historical value for the Jewish community? Is this just about the name?

Comments.

In what way is the handle important?

Well, often archeological finds have proven that the Bible is not the most trustworthy source of information about ancient times, much to the chagrin of fundamentalists. The importance of this artifact seems rather clear, since it's way older than previous finds. It tells us something about the age of Jerusalem.

In what way is the handle important?

The handle is 3,500 years + and it's the oldest artifact found in the Mount of Olives. It is dated to 900 BC and it was probably from the first Jewish temple there.

Well, it confirms that the name Menachem was in use 3000 years ago. Beyond that, it doesn't have any great historical significance.

Did it say "push" or "pull"?

People believe that it's important as it synchronises something mentioned in the bible with archaological evidence. In actuality it's not a massively important find, it's purely about the fact that people can associate it with the bible that got it news coverage. It's like if I found a handle with the name Publius on it and it was dated back to 350BC, they could say 'romans really were called that back then!' but it wouldn't be impressive. Mainly because it was a common name that popped up a lot and so we already know that. :P But it's largely the same thing.

Well, it confirms that the name Menachem was in use 3000 years ago. Beyond that, it doesn't have any great historical significance.

What about it being pressumably from the first Jewish temple at the Mount of Olives? Isn't that important?

The handle is 3,500 years + and it's the oldest artifact found in the Mount of Olives. It is dated to 900 BC and it was probably from the first Jewish temple there.

Yeah, but what does it reveal? What signiffigence (spelling?) does it have to anyone?

Yeah, but what does it reveal? What signiffigence (spelling?) does it have to anyone?

I believe it has significance to the Jewish people. I may very well be wrong. To me it's fascinating, of course I'm an art historian. It could very well have been a handle for a vase or jar used at the first Jewish Temple in Mouth of Olives. It could have been a gift to king Menachem himself!

There's no evidence that it's from the Temple, just that it's from the First Temple period. And the Temple was on the Temple Mount (now occupied by the Dome of the Rock), not the Mount of Olives.

-image snip-

The photo breaks the page and it's completely irrelevant to the topic being discussed.

http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-photos/photos/4/5/8/0762854.jpg

Explain the relevancy of this photo.

<snip giant airplane>

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b383/DrkHelmet/Forum%20Pictures/bunny.jpg

There's no evidence that it's from the Temple, just that it's from the First Temple period. And the Temple was on the Temple Mount (now occupied by the Dome of the Rock), not the Mount of Olives.

You, as part of the Jewish community, the Jewish people, only think the importance lies on the handle just proving the name Menachem was used 3,000 years ago and not only a reference on the Bible?

Explain the relevancy of this photo.

Oh, never mind.

You, as part of the Jewish community, the Jewish people, only think the importance lies on the handle just proving the name Menachem was used 3,000 years ago and not only a reference on the Bible?

Well, if it turns out that the Menachem referred to on the handle was King Menachem, then it would have more significance. Otherwise, yes, that is the only important thing. It doesn't tell us anything knew about how people at the time lived, or provide evidence of a historic event.

Well, if it turns out that the Menachem referred to on the handle was King Menachem, then it would have more significance. Otherwise, yes, that is the only important thing. It doesn't tell us anything knew about how people at the time lived, or provide evidence of a historic event.

I see. I do find the handle fascinating because of its antiquity.

Did it say "push" or "pull"?

It said to Menachem, so it depends what side he was on.

It said to Menachem, so it depends what side he was on.

Oh gods, no. Itz teh ghey king of teh Jewz! :rolleyes:

Let us not start this, please.

I see. I do find the handle fascinating because of its antiquity.

It is cool. The thing is, we've found thousands of artifacts from that period. When I was in Israel, we participated in an archaelogical dig, and were told that 70% of artifacts are of no significance. They had this huge pile of pottery shards and cowrie shells that we were welcome to take souvenirs from.

It is cool. The thing is, we've found thousands of artifacts from that period. When I was in Israel, we participated in an archaelogical dig, and were told that 70% of artifacts are of no significance. They had this huge pile of pottery shards and cowrie shells that we were welcome to take souvenirs from.

That must have been fascinating. Engulfed by that much history even if the significance is null.:)

That must have been fascinating. Engulfed by that much history even if the significance is null.:)

It was fascinating. And we even got to do some digging. We actually dug up 3,000-year-old artifacts.

Also, we were still getting used to the idea of simply being in Israel.

It was fascinating. And we even got to do some digging. We actually dug up 3,000-year-old artifacts.

What do they do with those artifacts aside from letting some people take them as souvenirs?

Also, we were still getting used to the idea of simply being in Israel.

My uncle visited several years ago and he said it was a sublime and overwhelming thing. Of course, Jewish people, Christians and Muslims share their fascination for that city as the holy place for thier religions. I'm sure it must have been something really meaningful for you.

It was fascinating. And we even got to do some digging. We actually dug up 3,000-year-old artifacts.

Also, we were still getting used to the idea of simply being in Israel.

...plus, if you put sandbags round the sides of the excavation, it doubles as 'Just in case.....' practice.

It's always good to prepared, especially in the Middle East.

...plus, if you put sandbags round the sides of the excavation, it doubles as 'Just in case.....' practice.

O.o?

O.o?

Bombings, he means.

Bombings, he means.

An archealogical site doubling as a trench area? Interesting and versatile.

An archealogical site doubling as a trench area? Interesting and versatile.

Yeah.

<starts telling racist jokes in the thread>

Yeah.

<starts telling racist jokes in the thread>

Not the Achmed the Dead Terrorist routine.:eek:

So... ...let us start a religion based on the life and teachings of Menachem :)

Proving scientific that god doesn’t or does exist is dumb, using the bible as a scientific work is even dumber.

Not the Achmed the Dead Terrorist routine.:eek:
http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l254/chiclet506/silence_i_kill_you_.png
So... ...let us start a religion based on the life and teachings of Menachem :)
Let's not.
Proving scientific that god doesn’t or does exist is dumb, using the bible as a scientific work is even dumber.
So is writing in really small tsxt so that I can't read it.:mad:

In what way is the handle important?
A lot of the Palestinians do deny that the Jews actually lived there back then. Not that one more piece of evidence would change anything.

Yeah, but what does it reveal? What signiffigence (spelling?) does it have to anyone?

It has significance to the history of the Middle East, with this it can start by telling us that the Jews had settled the area at least by 900BC more excavation and research may be needed but it does contribute to the history of the human race.