NationStates Jolt Archive

There was an interview with two chefs (one vegetarian, the other self-proclaimed carnivore) on the radio yesterday as my BF and me were driving home, and since we're both vegetarians, we listened with interest.

Now, the first thing the moderator said was that of course, as a vegetarian, you have to watch your diet to make sure you get all the nutrients you need.
This comment got my BF rather riled up, and with good reason I think. Don't meat-eaters have to watch their diet as well to make sure they get all the nutrients they need? Or does a diet magically become become balanced if you eat meat 3 times a day? What about those people who wouldn't even let their fork touch any vegetables, don't they have to watch their diet? What about those folks eating in fast food joints 5 times a week?
Why of all things to say about vegetarianism is the first thing everybody always comes out with first "Oh, but you have to watch your diet"?

Yep, but Vegetarians do have to watch their diet to ensure they get the iron they need.

The other chef (the carnivore) which means that he will only eat meat, does also need to ensure that he does, which means pills, I somehow doubt he eats meat and only meat, surprised he isn't dead. If one non-meat product he eats passes his lips then he is not a carnivore.

Why are you and your boyfriend vegetarians?

Oh and this is pretty bloggy.

Yep, but Vegetarians do have to watch their diet to ensure they get the iron they need.

The other chef (the carnivore) which means that he will only eat meat, does also need to ensure that he does, which means pills, I somehow doubt he eats meat and only meat, surprised he isn't dead. If one non-meat product he eats passes his lips then he is not a carnivore.

Why are you and your boyfriend vegetarians?

I'd assume you get plenty of iron from some root vegetables, namely beetroot and the like.
He's vegetarian because he doesn't see the need to have animals killed so he can eat, and I'm vegetarian because I object to the way most animals are treated while still alive. Basically, we're both against any kind of cruelty against animals.


Oh and this is pretty bloggy.

Yep, turned out sounding a bit different from what I intended, but I figure it won't be long before this drifts of into a "are all vegetarians stupid weak pussies?" and "if we weren't destined to eat animals, why do they taste so nice" kind of discussion.

Mainly because a lot of the folks who go through a vegan phase don't really stop and think about what they need to stay alive and healthy.

Don't get me wrong, I know folks like you and your bf who have made decisions about their diets and do their research, but then I've also met idiots who think being a vegetarian means eating naught but lettuce for the rest of their lives.

Mainly because a lot of the folks who go through a vegan phase don't really stop and think about what they need to stay alive and healthy.

Don't get me wrong, I know folks like you and your bf who have made decisions about their diets and do their research, but then I've also met idiots who think being a vegetarian means eating naught but lettuce for the rest of their lives.

True, I've met these people to. But I've also met people who will pick any bit of green off their meat before eating just the meat, and possibly the tatties.

I think everybody needs to watch what their eating, and the smugness of people going on about how vegetarian need to be especially careful is vexing me.

I'd assume you get plenty of iron from some root vegetables, namely beetroot and the like.
He's vegetarian because he doesn't see the need to have animals killed so he can eat, and I'm vegetarian because I object to the way most animals are treated while still alive. Basically, we're both against any kind of cruelty against animals.

I think only if you eat large quantities, same as with things found in fish such as Omega 3. I know someone will post on here to either prove or disprove my claim.

Fair enough, would you eat a free range animal that died of natural causes then?

Yep, turned out sounding a bit different from what I intended, but I figure it won't be long before this drifts of into a "are all vegetarians stupid weak pussies?" and "if we weren't destined to eat animals, why do they taste so nice" kind of discussion.

Truth hurts :p

No, no plenty of people are vegetarians many legit reasons and not because they are stupid (some are stupid but not because they are vegetarians) but it does irate me when I hear vegetarians and vegans talking about how bad people who eat meat are and demand that everyone stops eating meat.

...but it does irate me when I hear vegetarians and vegans talking about how bad people who eat meat are and demand that everyone stops eating meat.
This always confuses me.

Why are you annoyed that folks argue against what they see as immoral behaviour? I can understand being annoyed at the content of the moral argument, but being annoyed at the that people are trying to promote (what they see as) an ethical life?

Odd.

True, I've met these people to. But I've also met people who will pick any bit of green off their meat before eating just the meat, and possibly the tatties.

I think everybody needs to watch what their eating, and the smugness of people going on about how vegetarian need to be especially careful is vexing me.
Well, yes. Everyone needs to watch their diet (And my nose just grew about three feet with that statement out of me). And smugness is vexing no matter where it is, it's just that right now it's directed in your general direction.

I think only if you eat large quantities, same as with things found in fish such as Omega 3. I know someone will post on here to either prove or disprove my claim.

I can't be arsed to look up sources, but for all I know you can get enough iron from vegetables, and there's some omega 3 in some of them, too. Sea weed is a good source, I think.


Fair enough, would you eat a free range animal that died of natural causes then?


Actually, I occasionally will eat a bit of fish, if I can be sure it wasn't farmed. Rarely, though.
I spent a good time of my childhood on a farm, and I don't have a big issue with killing animals per se. It's usually done very quick and fairly painless. My issue is that these days, the animals spend what little time they have in horrible conditions, dirty, no light, too close to each other, fed god knows what, and are then being transported for miles and mile (several days, in some cases) to where they'll be killed. That's just unnecessarily and exceedingly cruel, in my book.


Truth hurts :p

No, no plenty of people are vegetarians many legit reasons and not because they are stupid (some are stupid but not because they are vegetarians) but it does irate me when I hear vegetarians and vegans talking about how bad people who eat meat are and demand that everyone stops eating meat.

Nope, we don't do that. To each their own. ;)

This always confuses me.

Why are you annoyed that folks argue against what they see as immoral behaviour? I can understand being annoyed at the content of the moral argument, but being annoyed at the that people are trying to promote (what they see as) an ethical life?

Odd.

I suppose I would give the same reason as some would when they get annoyed when religious people argue against such as performing homosexual acts.

I can't be arsed to look up sources, but for all I know you can get enough iron from vegetables, and there's some omega 3 in some of them, too. Sea weed is a good source, I think.

Actually yes you can, lentils and other beans can give you enough iron. Hence while at uni every now and then I pop down for a Mushroom and Lentil pie(Vegetarian, as the Vegan type tastes crap) at the uni health food shop.

Actually, I occasionally will eat a bit of fish, if I can be sure it wasn't farmed. Rarely, though.
I spent a good time of my childhood on a farm, and I don't have a big issue with killing animals per se. It's usually done very quick and fairly painless. My issue is that these days, the animals spend what little time they have in horrible conditions, dirty, no light, too close to each other, fed god knows what, and are then being transported for miles and mile (several days, in some cases) to where they'll be killed. That's just unnecessarily and exceedingly cruel, in my book.

Yeah fair enough, I am not aware of Ireland but in Australia I know you can get chickens that won't subject to this but yeah now it is starting to sound like I am forcing you to eat meat so I better stop.

Nope, we don't do that. To each their own. ;)

Hehe, I didn't pick you as the type to do that.

Yeah fair enough, I am not aware of Ireland but in Australia I know you can get chickens that won't subject to this but yeah now it is starting to sound like I am forcing you to eat meat so I better stop.

You can get that here as well. However, as my BF won't eat animals no matter what kind of life they had, I don't buy any for cooking at home. And in restaurants, you can't really be sure where the meat came from, so I opt out there as well.


Hehe, I didn't pick you as the type to do that.

We do question people sometimes, though, when the subject arises. Not to convert, just to make them think.
It's quite astonishing how many people never even think that much about what it is they're eating.

I suppose I would give the same reason as some would when they get annoyed when religious people argue against such as performing homosexual acts.
As would I.

But I'm annoyed at the content of their conviction, not the conviction itself.

What's puzzling is that many (perhaps not yourself) seem to find the conviction of certain vegetarians troubling.

As would I.

But I'm annoyed at the content of their conviction, not the conviction itself.

What's puzzling is that many (perhaps not yourself) seem to find the conviction of certain vegetarians troubling.

You mean that they actually eat purely vegetables?

I suppose I would give the same reason as some would when they get annoyed when religious people argue against such as performing homosexual acts.

I don't know.... "Because the bible says so" vs. "because animals are made to suffer in extremely cruel ways and then get killed"... But then, I'm biased on both accounts, so maybe I shouldn't comment. ;)

You mean that they actually eat purely vegetables?

You'd be surprised how much bile the decision not to eat animals can expose you to.
Some people seem genuinely threatened by the mere idea. And I don't mean just farmers.

You'd be surprised how much bile the decision not to eat animals can expose you to.
Some people seem genuinely threatened by the mere idea. And I don't mean just farmers.
Grrrrrrrrrrr! You just need to get a big hunk of MEAT in your mouth... and... then...

I think I'll just shut-up now, otherwise I'll be open for all sorts of abuse. ;)

You'd be surprised how much bile the decision not to eat animals can expose you to.
Some people seem genuinely threatened by the mere idea. And I don't mean just farmers.

Oh I am sure that people do get it, I suppose it is only because people hear about the extremists who insist that people do not eat meat and attack butchers and abattoirs.

Grrrrrrrrrrr! You just need to get a big hunk of MEAT in your mouth... and... then...

I think I'll just shut-up now, otherwise I'll be open for all sorts of abuse. ;)

I'm sure many vegetarians do eat meat every now and then :wink:

Similar to how being a Christian can open you up to shit in the US

You're either incredibly stupid or you meant to type atheist. Which is it?

You're either incredibly stupid or you meant to type atheist. Which is it?

Both and neither.

You mean that they actually eat purely vegetables?
Yes, or, at least, we don't eat meat.

How are you surprised at this?

True, I've met these people to. But I've also met people who will pick any bit of green off their meat before eating just the meat, and possibly the tatties.

I think everybody needs to watch what their eating, and the smugness of people going on about how vegetarian need to be especially careful is vexing me.

Meh! Just put it down to ignorance.:D I mean you can of course get vexed about the ignorance of some people, but how does that help? Does it make them less ignorant?

Yes, or, at least, we don't eat meat.

How are you surprised at this?

I am not surprised and I hope your question was talking about people being against their conviction. But see my answer to Cabra.

I'm vegetarian because I object to the way most animals are treated while still alive. Basically, we're both against any kind of cruelty against animals.



Thoughts on purely non-commercial farming techniques?

I ask, as my family has this weird penchant for "farming for fun", and that's where all of the meat I eat (except for the obviously more exotic types of meat, of course) come from, and having seen commercial feed lots, I can tell you that there are light years of distance between what my screwball family does, and the industrial food chain, so I thought I'd ask if that were to become a more dominant paradigm, would you feel differently?

Thoughts on purely non-commercial farming techniques?

I ask, as my family has this weird penchant for "farming for fun", and that's where all of the meat I eat (except for the obviously more exotic types of meat, of course) come from, and having seen commercial feed lots, I can tell you that there are light years of distance between what my screwball family does, and the industrial food chain, so I thought I'd ask if that were to become a more dominant paradigm, would you feel differently?

I answered that above already. :)

Grrrrrrrrrrr! You just need to get a big hunk of MEAT in your mouth... and... then...

I think I'll just shut-up now, otherwise I'll be open for all sorts of abuse. ;)

Especially from your significant other, depending on how what you said is interpreted. :tongue:

Especially from your significant other, depending on how what you said is interpreted. :tongue:

*lol
I think that would be ok even for vegetarians ;)

Anemia comes on much quicker than other diseases caused by nutritional deficits. You can eat meat exclusivly for years without massive ill effect, but if you completly forsake iron you're going to feel the brunt of it within six months. Or so I heard.

I answered that above already. :)

Posh, like I'd ever read all the way through a thread. Seriously. ;)

Anemia comes on much quicker than other diseases caused by nutritional deficits. You can eat meat exclusivly for years without massive ill effect, but if you completly forsake iron you're going to feel the brunt of it within six months. Or so I heard.

There's plenty of iron in some veg, though.
And I don't really think you can eat nothing but meat without ill side effects. Scurvy comes to mind immediately.

That's fucked up, I don't have to watch what I eat more than omnivores.

There's plenty of iron in some veg, though.

Of course, otherwise there'd be no such things as vegetarians. Hence the "watch your diet" comment from the radio man.

And I don't really think you can eat nothing but meat without ill side effects. Scurvy comes to mind immediately.

Yes indeed, but perhaps scurvy can take years to set in. I'm not sure, I'm no nutritionalist. Anyway, it's much less common for some to exclusivly eat meat than it is for people to not eat meat, hence the warning to vegitarians. It's much more likely (I think) for someone to suffer from anmeia that it is for them to suffer from scurvy.

Yes indeed, but perhaps scurvy can take years to set in. I'm not sure, I'm no nutritionalist. Anyway, it's much less common for some to exclusivly eat meat than it is for people to not eat meat, hence the warning to vegitarians. It's much more likely (I think) for someone to suffer from anmeia that it is for them to suffer from scurvy.

I don't think it does... wasn't it one of the biggest problems they used to have on ships, everybody losing their teeth after a few weeks without vitamin C?

And you'd be amazed at what some people do or don't eat, I think ;)

And you'd be amazed at what some people do or don't eat, I think ;)

I watch all the BBC three shows.:p

Don't meat-eaters have to watch their diet as well to make sure they get all the nutrients they need? Or does a diet magically become become balanced if you eat meat 3 times a day?
It doesn't become magically balanced but it helps. See, being omnivores, humans need to eat grains, vegetables, fruits, dairy, meats, oils, sweets, and physical activity to be healthy. You can't just cut out part of the diet and expect to remain healthy. If you do then you'll need supplements.

It doesn't become magically balanced but it helps. See, being omnivores, humans need to eat grains, vegetables, fruits, dairy, meats, oils, sweets, and physical activity to be healthy. You can't just cut out part of the diet and expect to remain healthy. If you do then you'll need supplements.

How do you do that? :confused:

Yeah, I was going to ask you, Cabra, why you'd called Vegetarianism a 'diet' because it made me think of something restricted (beyond the obvious) and sort of difficult to do, but I see you've made that point in your OP. I eat meat, and my diet is rarely balanced. Well, that's the case when I'm rushed anyway. I really love people who talk about how they couldn't possibly be vegetarian because they wouldn't want to have to plan their meals so much. Um. Yeah, you have to plan your meals regardless, else you end up eating a bag of Doritos for supper.

Yeah, I was going to ask you, Cabra, why you'd called Vegetarianism a 'diet' because it made me think of something restricted (beyond the obvious) and sort of difficult to do, but I see you've made that point in your OP. I eat meat, and my diet is rarely balanced. Well, that's the case when I'm rushed anyway. I really love people who talk about how they couldn't possibly be vegetarian because they wouldn't want to have to plan their meals so much. Um. Yeah, you have to plan your meals regardless, else you end up eating a bag of Doritos for supper.

What's wrong with Doritos?

How do you do that? :confused:
By chasing down and consuming athletes. This also meets the meat requirement.

By chasing down and consuming athletes. This also meets the meat requirement.

I give the Galloism Seal of Approval for that retort. :p

See, being omnivores, humans need to eat grains, vegetables, fruits, dairy, meats...
Nope.

Humans, being omnivores, can eat a variety of things, including meat. We don't need to eat meat.

...sweets
Uh...?

You can't just cut out part of the diet and expect to remain healthy. If you do then you'll need supplements.
You can meet all dietary requirements with a vegetarian diet.

It's vegans that need to be careful, particularly with regard to iron, calcium, vitamin D, and vitamin B12.

Mmmm...This jerky is so good. I think I'll have steak tonight.

Mmmm...This jerky is so good. I think I'll have steak tonight.

Murderer.

'Balanced' diets are for the weak. I prefer a 'variety is the spice of life' approach to diet. *nod*

Mmmm...This jerky is so good. I think I'll have steak tonight.
Oh, eating virtual meat 'in front' of a vegetarian!

How original.

This always confuses me.

Why are you annoyed that folks argue against what they see as immoral behaviour? I can understand being annoyed at the content of the moral argument, but being annoyed at the that people are trying to promote (what they see as) an ethical life?

Odd.
Nobody likes preaching unless they're in the choir.

'Balanced' diets are for the weak. I prefer a 'variety is the spice of life' approach to diet. *nod*

You should try my new 'Laugh and grow fat' diet. It involves a George Carlin DVD boxset and the menus for every fast food place that'll deliver to your home/place of work.

I'd assume you get plenty of iron from some root vegetables, namely beetroot and the like.
He's vegetarian because he doesn't see the need to have animals killed so he can eat, and I'm vegetarian because I object to the way most animals are treated while still alive. Basically, we're both against any kind of cruelty against animals.Iron from meat is more easily absorbed than iron from vegetables. Vegetarians should make sure to include vitamin C in their meals to help absorption of iron.

I find that the periods when I've not eaten much meat that I've had to watch what I eat more than usual. And on rare occasion I've become anemic. So for me personally, I definitely need to make sure that one of my daily meals contains both iron and vitamin C if I'm not eating meat.

I find that when I'm omnivorous I can eat pretty much any mix of veg and meat and not have to worry about nutrient deficiencies.

Now, the first thing the moderator said was that of course, as a vegetarian, you have to watch your diet to make sure you get all the nutrients you need.
That's a very common fallacy, and only really true for vegans. And only then for ensuring they get adequate vitamin B12. And even thats just because some people opt into veganism without bothering to find out how to do it properly.

Speaking of Iron absorption, just cooking in cast iron pots can add heaps of iron to your diet. A study done by the Journal of the American Dietetic Association found that the iron content of spaghetti sauce cooked in an iron pot vs stainless pot was 5.7mg /100g vs 0.6mg /100g.
Adult men's intake should be 10-15 mg /day; Adult women, 15-20mg.
Simply using iron pots for cooking can ensure adequate iron intake.

The house I lived in back in the 1990s was fairly old (100yrs, which is old for Oz) and thus had old iron water pipes. My g/f and I at that stage were semi-vegs, eating meat maybe twice a week at most. Before moving in, my g/f had really a low blood-iron count, bordering on anemia. 6 months after moving in, her blood-iron count was above what's considered normal for a man. All due to the iron leeching out of the pipes into our drinking and cooking water.

Speaking of Iron absorption, just cooking in cast iron pots can add heaps of iron to your diet. A study done by the Journal of the American Dietetic Association found that the iron content of spaghetti sauce cooked in an iron pot vs stainless pot was 5.7mg /100g vs 0.6mg /100g.


Yes, but cooking acidic sauces (tomato, vinegar &c) in iron pots makes them taste fucking disgusting, so you shouldn't do it.

Still, if you are of the vegetarian persuasion that's probably not a priority anyway I suppose.

You should try my new 'Laugh and grow fat' diet. It involves a George Carlin DVD boxset and the menus for every fast food place that'll deliver to your home/place of work.

This interests me.

It doesn't become magically balanced but it helps. See, being omnivores, humans need to eat grains, vegetables, fruits, dairy, meats, oils, sweets, and physical activity to be healthy. You can't just cut out part of the diet and expect to remain healthy. If you do then you'll need supplements.

Actually, humans only need dairy if they are in fact vegetarian.
There's nothing in meat you couldn't fairly easily find elsewhere. Cutting out fruit and veg would be much more damaging in fact.

Actually, humans only need dairy if they are in fact vegetarian.
There's nothing in meat you couldn't fairly easily find elsewhere. Cutting out fruit and veg would be much more damaging in fact.

Quorn and other such sihit helps as well as dairy.

Yes, but cooking acidic sauces (tomato, vinegar &c) in iron pots makes them taste fucking disgusting, so you shouldn't do it.

Still, if you are of the vegetarian persuasion that's probably not a priority anyway I suppose.

And another stupid prejudice... I love food, and I love tasty things. Just because I became vegetarians doesn't mean I suddenly stopped caring about taste and good food, on the contrary. I actually have to think more about it now, for the simple reason that a lot of the dishes I would have cooked before had meat in them. So now I need to re-think recipes, or find new ones and make them really, really tasty. It's a challenge, but I love it.

Quorn and other such sihit helps as well as dairy.

For the protein, yes. But not so much for some vitamins.

For the protein, yes. But not so much for some vitamins.

How long have you been a vegetarian? You may've already said, but... meh.

How long have you been a vegetarian? You may've already said, but... meh.

Bf has been for well over 2 decades, I myself have slowly drifted into it since moving in with him 2 years ago. There wasn't a cleat cut for me as such, since when we moved in together I started cooking exclusively vegetarian stuff at home, and only occasionally had meat when we went out for a meal. And then that stopped as well, when I found that buying free-range eggs, but eating meat without knowing where it had come from basically just meant I was kidding myself.

Bf has been for well over 2 decades, I myself have slowly drifted into it since moving in with him 2 years ago. There wasn't a cleat cut for me as such, since when we moved in together I started cooking exclusively vegetarian stuff at home, and only occasionally had meat when we went out for a meal. And then that stopped as well, when I found that buying free-range eggs, but eating meat without knowing where it had come from basically just meant I was kidding myself.

Two decades!? Fuck me.


I think it's really rather pointless (hypocritical , maybe?) to buy free-range eggs and then eat meat.

And another stupid prejudice... I love food, and I love tasty things. Just because I became vegetarians doesn't mean I suddenly stopped caring about taste and good food, on the contrary. I actually have to think more about it now, for the simple reason that a lot of the dishes I would have cooked before had meat in them. So now I need to re-think recipes, or find new ones and make them really, really tasty. It's a challenge, but I love it.

It's not a prejudice. It's an observation.

Food priorities for non-vegetarians:

1. Is this poisonous?
2. Will I like the taste?

Food priorities for vegetarians:

1. Is this poisonous?
2. Does this contain any of god's fluffy bunny stuffs?
3. Will I like the taste?

How good something tastes is a lesser consideration for a vegetarian than a non-vegetarian. (Unless they avoid meat because they don't like the taste.)

If it wasn't they'd eat meat. Q.E.D.

It's not a prejudice. It's an observation.

Food priorities for non-vegetarians:

1. Is this poisonous?
2. Will I like the taste?

Food priorities for vegetarians:

1. Is this poisonous?
2. Does this contain any of god's fluffy bunny stuffs?
3. Will I like the taste?

How good something tastes is a lesser consideration for a vegetarian than a non-vegetarian. (Unless they avoid meat because they don't like the taste.)

If it wasn't they'd eat meat. Q.E.D.
That's retarded. What difference does checjking to see if food is vegetarian make on the taste of our food?

Two decades!? Fuck me.


I think it's really rather pointless (hypocritical , maybe?) to buy free-range eggs and then eat meat.

Well, going on to 3 decades now, actually.

And yes, that's what I realised as well. As I said, I don't really have qualms about killing an animal as such. But mistreating it the way they are being mistreated in commercial food production is just totally and utterly wrong.
So buying free-range eggs, but then eating meat at restaurants where I can't verify mt chicken lived a free-range life and had enough space to move around in is just being dishonest.

Well, going on to 3 decades now, actually.

And yes, that's what I realised as well. As I said, I don't really have qualms about killing an animal as such. But mistreating it the way they are being mistreated in commercial food production is just totally and utterly wrong.
So buying free-range eggs, but then eating meat at restaurants where I can't verify mt chicken lived a free-range life and had enough space to move around in is just being dishonest.

What's worse is when someone is a vegetarian and then eats non-free-range eggs.

That's retarded. What difference does checjking to see if food is vegetarian make on the taste of our food?

None whatsoever.
The fact that I won't eat meat doesn't mean I'll suddenly eat something I hate the taste of.

But leave him be, he's a very good example of the way non-vegetarians feel the need to be smug about vegetarians for no apparent reason.

It's not a prejudice. It's an observation.

Food priorities for non-vegetarians:

1. Is this poisonous?
2. Will I like the taste?

Food priorities for vegetarians:

1. Is this poisonous?
2. Does this contain any of god's fluffy bunny stuffs?
3. Will I like the taste?

How good something tastes is a lesser consideration for a vegetarian than a non-vegetarian. (Unless they avoid meat because they don't like the taste.)

If it wasn't they'd eat meat. Q.E.D.

Well, my list goes :

Is it edible?
Will I like the taste?
Does it contain meat?

I didn't invert anything, I just added another criterium to my food selection.

None whatsoever.
The fact that I won't eat meat doesn't mean I'll suddenly eat something I hate the taste of.

But leave him be, he's a very good example of the way non-vegetarians feel the need to be smug about vegetarians for no apparent reason.

I know, my brothers are always so condecending about it.

Well, my list goes :

Is it edible?
Will I like the taste?
Does it contain meat?

I didn't invert anything, I just added another criterium to my food selection.

The meat thing has to be more important than the taste. Otherwise sometimes you'd eat meat. Not eating meat is the overriding concern here.

But leave him be, he's a very good example of the way non-vegetarians feel the need to be smug about vegetarians for no apparent reason.

It's not smug either. It's just an observation. If the taste of your food was that important you'd add delicious meat to it.

The meat thing has to be more important than the taste. Otherwise sometimes you'd eat meat. Not eating meat is the overriding concern here.

Well, you see something and trhen yourlike "that looks good... oh , shit it's meat". It's not all that hard to tell tbh.

Well, you see something and trhen yourlike "that looks good... oh , shit it's meat". It's not all that hard to tell tbh.

So yeah, taste is less important than whether or not it contains meat. Which is what I am saying.

So yeah, taste is less important than whether or not it contains meat. Which is what I am saying.

Yeah, but that doesn't mean we don't care about taste. I never reall liked the taste of meat anyway.

The meat thing has to be more important than the taste. Otherwise sometimes you'd eat meat. Not eating meat is the overriding concern here.

Do you eat things when you don't like their taste, just because they're not poisonous?
There you go then.

It's not smug either. It's just an observation. If the taste of your food was that important you'd add delicious meat to it.

Why would you think meat is more delicious than veg?
I never understood that attitude, even when I was still eating meat.

Do you eat things when you don't like their taste, just because they're not poisonous?
There you go then.

I've done a fair bit of through hiking over the years, so I have eaten plenty of things that I thought were fucking disgusting. But not dying was more important than taste. Taste is never the number one priority if you stop and think about it.

And what I am saying is that in general taste is less important to vegetarians than non-vegetarians because they have an extra step which constrains their choices.

For example, say there were only two choices on the menu. A delicious meat pie, or horribly overcooked stale cabbage. I could eat the tasty option, a vegetarian would be stuck with the yucky food. (Or they could not eat, but that still means foregoing the yummy food).

Why would you think meat is more delicious than veg?
I never understood that attitude, even when I was still eating meat.

Never mind me. Society in general seems to think meat is more delicious. It's more expensive than veg so people are in aggregate expressing a definite opinion in respect of the delicious question.

I've done a fair bit of through hiking over the years, so I have eaten plenty of things that I thought were fucking disgusting. But not dying was more important than taste. Taste is never the number one priority if you stop and think about it.

And what I am saying is that in general taste is less important to vegetarians than non-vegetarians because they have an extra step which constrains their choices.

For example, say there were only two choices on the menu. A delicious meat pie, or horribly overcooked stale cabbage. I could eat the tasty option, a vegetarian would be stuck with the yucky food. (Or they could not eat, but that still means foregoing the yummy food).

I would just opt for going to another restaurant... meat pies are disgusting anyway.
And no, I won't eat anything that's disgusting if I can help it. and I won't eat meat if I can help it. That still leaves plentiful options to me.

I would just opt for going to another restaurant... meat pies are disgusting anyway.
And no, I won't eat anything that's disgusting if I can help it. and I won't eat meat if I can help it. That still leaves plentiful options to me.

1. Meat pies are totally awesome.

2. This is the only restaurant in the world. My hypothetical, my rules. :p

Sure, I am not saying that you go out and intentionally eat things that you find horrible. I am just saying that how food tastes is not as important to you as if you were a meat eating person.

Never mind me. Society in general seems to think meat is more delicious. It's more expensive than veg so people are in aggregate expressing a definite opinion in respect of the delicious question.

You know, I think that has an awful lot to do with people not knowing how to prepare vegetables. The oveboiled cabbage you mentioned is a prime example.

As I said, I had to re-think my entire culinary repertoire when turning vegetarian, as I had grown up with meat dishes nearly every day. It was just normal, you got some meat and then you had some veg accompanying it. You focused entirely on preparing the meat in a nice way, and just boiled the veg until they were soppy, and maybe if you remembered you'd salt them a bit.

These days, I wouldn't want to waste my time trying to infuse meat with flavour (how many vegetables do you know that you need to fucking marinate for hours to make them taste of something?), I'd rather do my veg nicely, thank you very much.

1. Meat pies are totally awesome.

2. This is the only restaurant in the world. My hypothetical, my rules. :p

Sure, I am not saying that you go out and intentionally eat things that you find horrible. I am just saying that how food tastes is not as important to you as if you were a meat eating person.

Meat pies are utterly disgusting. Any kind of savoury pie is.
If that's the only restaurant in the world, I'll have to go home and cook myself something there, then, cause I wouldn't want to eat either option.

You know, I think that has an awful lot to do with people not knowing how to prepare vegetables. The oveboiled cabbage you mentioned is a prime example.

As I said, I had to re-think my entire culinary repertoire when turning vegetarian, as I had grown up with meat dishes nearly every day. It was just normal, you got some meat and then you had some veg accompanying it. You focused entirely on preparing the meat in a nice way, and just boiled the veg until they were soppy, and maybe if you remembered you'd salt them a bit.

These days, I wouldn't want to waste my time trying to infuse meat with flavour (how many vegetables do you know that you need to fucking marinate for hours to make them taste of something?), I'd rather do my veg nicely, thank you very much.

I agree that northern europe is a bit of a wasteland when it comes to preparing vegetables (other than potato). But there are lots of culinary traditions where vegetables are done well - chinese, indian, italian - that also do nice meat as well.

Actually if I am serious about this for a second, I'd guess that a lot of the attitude that vegetarians get in the UK is probably because the vegetables have been traditionally so badly prepared. Ireland is the same I'd imagine. So the thought of eating only vegetables seems weird,

No doubt Indians don't have the same problem, 'cos their vegetables dishes are delicious.

I agree that northern europe is a bit of a wasteland when it comes to preparing vegetables (other than potato). But there are lots of culinary traditions where vegetables are done well - chinese, indian, italian - that also do nice meat as well.

Actually if I am serious about this for a second, I'd guess that a lot of the attitude that vegetarians get in the UK is probably because the vegetables have been traditionally so badly prepared. Ireland is the same I'd imagine. So the thought of eating only vegetables seems weird,

No doubt Indians don't have the same problem, 'cos their vegetables dishes are delicious.

India has in fact large groups of people who are vegetarian for religious reasons. I think that may well be the reason why their vegetable dishes are so awesome. ;)

I think a lot about the attitude regarding vegetarians in Europe has to do with the fact that vegetables were regarded as poor food.
My grandmother will still tell me that when she grew up, a Sunday roast for a family of 7 was one pigeon. They wouldn't eat meat during the week because they didn't have the money.
Now they do, and it's meat 3 times a day. It's overcompensation, in a way. And a complete lack of comprehension why someone who COULD afford it wouldn't want to.


Also, when you dig a bit, you can find lots of old vegetable recipes that are quite nice. People couldn't always have the massive quantities of meat we eat today, so they became inventive with what they had.

Colcannon is delicious, for example, and so are Bratkartoffeln, risottos, polenta dishes, .... it's a long list.

India has in fact large groups of people who are vegetarian for religious reasons. I think that may well be the reason why their vegetable dishes are so awesome. ;)



I thought thay just didn't eat cows.

I thought thay just didn't eat cows.

Nope, there are a lot of indians not eating any kind of meat at all.
They do eat dairy, though, I think.

This might be informative : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegetarian#Religion

Nope, there are a lot of indians not eating any kind of meat at all.
They do eat dairy, though, I think.

This might be informative : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegetarian#Religion

That's probably the reason for them having great veggie food, cos they've been doing it for so long.

going from omnivore to vegetarian means cutting out meat, which means watching what you eat in order to fill the gap of protein and iron.

going from omnivore to carnivore means cutting out veg (and fruit?) which means watching what you eat to fill the gap of... everything else.

i should guess since the "carnivore" bloke was using the term as a figure of speech, it makes sense to ask the vegetarian if they have to watch what they eat and not the other guy. its presumed the carnivore guy is still an omivore and hasn't cut out any parts of his diet, and hence has less reason to 'watch what he eats'
maybe *shrugs*

going from omnivore to vegetarian means cutting out meat, which means watching what you eat in order to fill the gap of protein and iron.


I don't.

going from omnivore to vegetarian means cutting out meat, which means watching what you eat in order to fill the gap of protein and iron.

going from omnivore to carnivore means cutting out veg (and fruit?) which means watching what you eat to fill the gap of... everything else.

i should guess since the "carnivore" bloke was using the term as a figure of speech, it makes sense to ask the vegetarian if they have to watch what they eat and not the other guy. its presumed the carnivore guy is still an omivore and hasn't cut out any parts of his diet, and hence has less reason to 'watch what he eats'
maybe *shrugs*

As long as you don't go vegan, there's no gap in protein. And if you eat a normal, balanced diet, there's not much difference in iron intake either.

Only most people seem to assume that for both accounts, meat is the only apparent source...

As long as you don't go vegan, there's no gap in protein. And if you eat a normal, balanced diet, there's not much difference in iron intake either.

Only most people seem to assume that for both accounts, meat is the only apparent source...

don't you have to eat lots of extra nuts and stuff though?

I thought thay just didn't eat cows.

Hah India is not just full of Hindu's you know!:D

As long as you don't go vegan, there's no gap in protein. And if you eat a normal, balanced diet, there's not much difference in iron intake either.

Only most people seem to assume that for both accounts, meat is the only apparent source...

Well it is true that you cannot get dripping from a vegatable, and dripping is important to the diet, I mean why would you forgo your vitamin Dripping?:D

don't you have to eat lots of extra nuts and stuff though?

Not any more than I did before...
I always liked nuts, and pulses.

That's probably the reason for them having great veggie food, cos they've been doing it for so long.

Especially Saag Paneer, yum I could go for some of that right now.

Well, going on to 3 decades now, actually.

And yes, that's what I realised as well. As I said, I don't really have qualms about killing an animal as such. But mistreating it the way they are being mistreated in commercial food production is just totally and utterly wrong.
So buying free-range eggs, but then eating meat at restaurants where I can't verify mt chicken lived a free-range life and had enough space to move around in is just being dishonest.

Except free range eggs taste better than caged besdies which you can buy free range chickens too.

Nobody likes preaching unless they're in the choir.
Tough titties.

One shouldn't keep quiet about one's convictions.


Food priorities for non-vegetarians:

1. Is this poisonous?
2. Will I like the taste?

Food priorities for vegetarians:

1. Is this poisonous?
2. Does this contain any of god's fluffy bunny stuffs?
3. Will I like the taste?

How good something tastes is a lesser consideration for a vegetarian than a non-vegetarian. (Unless they avoid meat because they don't like the taste.)

If it wasn't they'd eat meat. Q.E.D.
Q.E.Bollocks, more like.

It in no way follows that because there is a necessary condition attached to any consumption of food ('must not contain meat'), vegetarians put less consideration into taste than non-vegetarians. That's equivalent to saying that because there is a necessary condition attached to any proposal of marriage ('must be Jewish'), Jews put less consideration into the appearance of their future spouse than Gentiles.

Tough titties.

One shouldn't keep quiet about one's convictions.


Wait... is that an invitation to be harassed 24/7 by various evangelist/lifestyle/cultist groups to convert to their brand of belief?

Wait... is that an invitation to be harassed 24/7 by various evangelist/lifestyle/cultist groups to convert to their brand of belief?
Of course not.

One can be a vocal opponent of meat-eating, or be a vocal opponent or proponent of any (ethical) position, without endlessly harassing folks.

It's not a prejudice. It's an observation.

Food priorities for non-vegetarians:

1. Is this poisonous?
2. Will I like the taste?

Food priorities for vegetarians:

1. Is this poisonous?
2. Does this contain any of god's fluffy bunny stuffs?
3. Will I like the taste?

How good something tastes is a lesser consideration for a vegetarian than a non-vegetarian. (Unless they avoid meat because they don't like the taste.)

If it wasn't they'd eat meat. Q.E.D.

That is seriously retarded. Are you really claiming that non-vegetarians do not have to care about their dietary intake of vitamins and minerals, simply because they eat meat?