NationStates Jolt Archive

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=10572008
KABUL - The pupils were lining up outside their classrooms for morning assembly when one girl suddenly collapsed unconscious.

"She was only little," said Gulcheena, a 13-year-old student of the school who fell ill herself moments later.

They were among 90 Afghan school girls rushed to hospital yesterday unconscious and vomiting, possibly victims of a gas poisoning attack on their school in Mahmud Raqi village.

"The teachers picked her up and carried her to the school office," Gulcheena said.

"We went into our class and the teacher was calling the roll call when suddenly she told us to go outside."

Of the 90 girls from the Qazaam school admitted to hospital, at least five slipped briefly into comas, officials in Kapisa province, north-east of the capital, said.

Six teachers and at least two other staff were also admitted.



Maybe the white phosphorus being used in Pakistan is not a WMD but this certainly is. (if toxicology reports confirm it)

They did say the Talibaners don't like girls getting edumacated......

Oh I thought this was a continuation of the hot sauce thread...

Extremists of all stripes deserve to be revealed for who they are and put out; its very hard to view Islam as anything but a religion that perpetrates wanton violence, especially against women, when reports of things like this are constantly coming out of Islamic nations.

At least Christianity is an equal opportunity hater.

Serves the girls right for learning to read and write, rather than to gracefully submit to their husbands and bearing lots of little boys.

I mean, really now. First you teach them how to read, and next they may want to have self-determination! Best to put a stop to this now, before civilisation falls to chaos.

Occurances of large groups of teens collapsing are not uncommon. Usually the cause is mass-hysteria. Even adults are frequently affected in such cases.

That people think of a poisonous gas attack in this case is more telling of the circumstances than anything else. Of course, the possibility of a gas attack should be investigated, but until that is confirmed, it's safe to assume this is another case of angst-induced mass-hysteria.

Occurances of large groups of teens collapsing are not uncommon. Usually the cause is mass-hysteria. Even adults are frequently affected in such cases.

That people think of a poisonous gas attack in this case is more telling of the circumstances than anything else. Of course, the possibility of a gas attack should be investigated, but until that is confirmed, it's safe to assume this is another case of angst-induced mass-hysteria.

Yes, I'm sure that often results in people slipping into comas after the fact.

Yes, I'm sure that often results in people slipping into comas after the fact.

Maybe they're hysteric, pscyho-somatic comas?
:p

Damn warmongers and their innovative weaponry...
=[

Better have those teen girls from Afghanistan live with em for safety.

At least Christianity is an equal opportunity hater.

Wrong.

How dare young women and girls attempt to expand their horizons and better themselves, their families, and their nation! What blasphemy! Why should they have the chance to become better citizens and contribute to the economy?

God, I hate the Taliban.

it's safe to assume this is another case of angst-induced mass-hysteria.

Slightly possible but still unlikely concidering other attacks against girl schools in the area. (throwing acid in their faces and such)

The BBC said that samples have been sent to a tox lab.

See, if the US hadn't left Afghanistan to its own devices by attacking Iraq, this wouldn't have happened.

Wrong.

It most definitely is; it hates everyone.

The basic concept behind Christianity: Everyone is doomed to die and go to hell just because being born is a sin. If you let a man who says he speaks for god dunk you under water and then live a boring life full of monotony and go to church every sunday maybe, just MAYBE you can catch a glimpse of what heaven is like before you get tortured for the rest of eternity.

Gas attacks against children? What fun, I do that every day with mine!

It most definitely is; it hates everyone.


Are we talking about the actions of the adherents or just the tenets of the religion? Because in either case, it seems to hate everyone who doesn't fall under a very specific criteria, the specifics of said criteria changing now and again to serve agendas.

Gas attacks against children? What fun, I do that every day with mine!

Maybe you should consider a change of diet?

See, if the US hadn't left Afghanistan to its own devices by attacking Iraq, this wouldn't have happened.

Yup. And the stupidity was not even limited to that.

BUSH not long after 9-11: "North Korea is part of the Axis of Evil"

All Donald, Dick & W wanted was more defense contracts. They could care less what the results of their actions were.

looks like someone is getting a bit desperate in holding Afghanistan back in the dark ages

I mean if burning young girls faces off isn't gonna work maybe you should reevaluate your strategy hmmm

Extremists of all stripes deserve to be revealed for who they are and put out; its very hard to view Islam as anything but a religion that perpetrates wanton violence, especially against women, when reports of things like this are constantly coming out of Islamic nations.

At least Christianity is an equal opportunity hater.

oh stfu if everyone followed Jesus to the letter everything would be dandy unfortunately people are dicks

now if you'll excuse me I'm off to blow up a school full of protestant scum

See, if the US hadn't left Afghanistan to its own devices by attacking Iraq, this wouldn't have happened.

it would make more sense to blame Canada "bawww we never knew we would have to do any actual fighting like say the British"

but stop I'm only pointing out the funny and I don't think anyone gives a rats arse about your own little Iraq problem so lets not debate something that has nothing to do with thread topic

Maybe you should consider a change of diet?

Uhh? Why? Do you not fart?

So can we safely assume now that the US has used chemical weapons in Afghanistan?

So can we safely assume now that the US has used chemical weapons in Afghanistan?

Not sure how this follows... :confused:

Not sure how this follows... :confused:

Well, someone used Gas.

Yes, I'm sure that often results in people slipping into comas after the fact.

Quite possible. The phenomenon is called nocebo. It's the opposite of the placebo effect; if you believe you are ill, you become ill. This includes comas, and in some cases, thinking yourself to death.

Well, someone used Gas.

Yes. The Taliban that Donald, Dick & W allowed to stay afloat for all these years.

Slightly possible but still unlikely concidering other attacks against girl schools in the area. (throwing acid in their faces and such)

That is a quite clear and tangible attack. Which could actually be the reason for the mass-hysteria: the fear of it happening again.

The BBC said that samples have been sent to a tox lab.

We'll have to wait on the results to be sure, eitherway. At least, I will.

Yes, I'm sure that often results in people slipping into comas after the fact.

It's happened before.

Quite possible. The phenomenon is called nocebo. It's the opposite of the placebo effect; if you believe you are ill, you become ill. This includes comas[...]

My point exactly.

That is a quite clear and tangible attack. Which could actually be the reason for the mass-hysteria: the fear of it happening again.

The fact that the Taliban are against girls getting an education and there are 3 alleged gas attacks makes your probility less than 1%

We'll still have to wait for the tox report to be sure it was a gas attack, regardless of probability. When it comes, and it confirms an attack, i'll acknowledge it as a gas attack; until then, i'll presume it is mass-hysteria.

We'll still have to wait for the tox report to be sure it was a gas attack, regardless of probability. When it comes, and it confirms an attack, i'll acknowledge it as a gas attack; until then, i'll presume it is mass-hysteria.

The horror of the the probability of gas attacks should be enough to post round the clock soldiers to guard the schools.

If you think placing guards around schools will prevent gas attacks, go ahead.

Yes. The Taliban that Donald, Dick & W allowed to stay afloat for all these years.

Proof?

For all we know, this could be an American attack gone bad. Gas is probably pretty effective against those caves the Taliban so enjoy living in.

Proof?

For all we know, this could be an American attack gone bad. Gas is probably pretty effective against those caves the Taliban so enjoy living in.Everything is the American's fault. Always.

We don't have evidence that it was either. It's bad to assume the Taliban are the ones behind this, or that the school was even the intended target. The article simply describes the incident in question. It would be wrong of us to assume that this gas incident was the work of the Taliban.

Proof?

For all we know, this could be an American attack gone bad. Gas is probably pretty effective against those caves the Taliban so enjoy living in.

Proof that these girl schools are held in caves?

Proof that these girl schools are held in caves?

Lolz.

The US military has a bad habit of horribly missing what they intend to hit. This could be one of those cases.

Proof that these girl schools are held in caves?

Have you seen what Afghani women look like? It would be a blessing to everyone to hide them in caves.

*runs*

Have you seen what Afghani women look like?

Like big blue tents?

Like big blue tents?

Cheers. *raises his beer bottle*

Lolz.

The US military has a bad habit of horribly missing what they intend to hit. This could be one of those cases.

True enough. But still no gas attacks anywhere else by the US. Could it be possible that they only tried 3 times and hit a school each and every time?
:eek:

Like big blue tents?

You have to wonder what they hide under there. Perhaps a mini-AC system? A 1st Generation iPod with kickass speakers? A minibar?

True enough. But still no gas attacks anywhere else by the US. Could it be possible that they only tried 3 times and hit a school each and every time?
:eek:

Possible. We still have no real evidence the Taliban were behind this, however.

Possible. We still have no real evidence the Taliban were behind this, however.

Defining "Taliban" in these cases could prove to be difficult. It could be someone that never officially joined the Taliban, just follows their beliefs and extremism ways.

The question is, how hard is it to get such chemicals (that put some kids in a temporary coma) and store them is a housing to be used as a weapon. Can an average Afghan Joe 6-pack do that?

Defining "Taliban" in these cases could prove to be difficult. It could be someone that never officially joined the Taliban, just follows their beliefs and extremism ways.

The question is, how hard is it to get such chemicals (that put some kids in a temporary coma) and store them is a housing to be used as a weapon. Can an average Afghan Joe 6-pack do that?

Which is exactly what lends me to believe that this was an American gas attack gone wrong.

Which is exactly what lends me to believe that this was an American gas attack gone wrong.

The Taliban have had quite a few years to get their act together. I think it is obvoius that ONLY the US or the Taliban is capable of such an attack. But then were back to only 3 US attacks and all 3 accidently hit a school. Seems like you need at least one US gas attack somewhere else in the area (hitting something else) to put the blame on them.

The Taliban have had quite a few years to get their act together. I think it is obvoius that ONLY the US or the Taliban is capable of such an attack. But then were back to only 3 US attacks and all 3 accidently hit a school. Seems like you need at least one US gas attack somewhere else in the area (hitting something else) to put the blame on them.
Making a poison gas is pretty easy, all things considered. The hard part would be making it in quantity, transporting it, and deploying it from outside a building and having it drift inside whilst maintaining a concentration high enough to cause adverse health effects. That takes knowledge and equipment. Something that the US military has more of then the Taliban.

There is also the propaganda aspect. As the Taliban dude said in the article, attacks against children arn't the way of the holy warrior. And no one likes attacks against children. The mission of the US Special Forces is to win the hearts and minds of a people. What better way to do it then conducting a false flag operation against children?

Making a poison gas is pretty easy, all things considered. The hard part would be making it in quantity, transporting it, and deploying it from outside a building and having it drift inside whilst maintaining a concentration high enough to cause adverse health effects. That takes knowledge and equipment. Something that the US military has more of then the Taliban.

There is also the propaganda aspect. As the Taliban dude said in the article, attacks against children arn't the way of the holy warrior. And no one likes attacks against children. The mission of the US Special Forces is to win the hearts and minds of a people. What better way to do it then conducting a false flag operation against children?

But our hearts and minds ARE behind Obama since his administration isn't linked at the hip to the Military-Industrial Complex like Donald, Dick & W were. (when a commander sucks, Obama kicks him to the curb and gets someone that WILL do the job right....Something Bush lacked in)

But our hearts and minds ARE behind Obama since his administration isn't linked at the hip to the Military-Industrial Complex like Donald, Dick & W were. (when a commander sucks, Obama kicks him to the curb and gets someone that WILL do the job right....Something Bush lacked in)

Not our hearts and minds, numbnuts, Afghani hearts and minds. Afghanis don't give a shit who is in office. America the conquerer is still America the conquerer, even if Ögedei Khan has replaced Genghis.

Nuke Tora Bora, it's supposedly a no man's land, right?

That would destroy all the CIA created hidey holes, and interrupt all illegal commerce with Pakistan.

Not our hearts and minds, numbnuts, Afghani hearts and minds. Afghanis don't give a shit who is in office. America the conquerer is still America the conquerer, even if Ögedei Khan has replaced Genghis.

Ok my bad. But that is still a pretty elaborate plan to try to acheive the goal of creating more anti-Taliban sentiment in the area, which really couldnt be much of a factor anyway. Then you have to figure that the US would figure there is the possibility of others taking it as a sign to join the the fight against the US now. (the jihad is ON!!!...and all that shit)

Not our hearts and minds, numbnuts, Afghani hearts and minds. Afghanis don't give a shit who is in office. America the conquerer is still America the conquerer, even if Ögedei Khan has replaced Genghis.

Come on. You really think that Americans could pull shit like this off without it leaking and then blowing up in our faces?

Really, now.

Lolz.

The US military has a bad habit of horribly missing what they intend to hit. This could be one of those cases.

Which is quite frankly inexcusale, given the wide availability of ensuring the right target is chosen and in sights. Do they not bother to, oh I don't know, LOOK AT WHAT THEY'RE SHOOTING AT?!

Come on. You really think that Americans could pull shit like this off without it leaking and then blowing up in our faces?

Really, now.

It wouldn't be that hard. The US still has stocks of chemical weapons, and all thats required would be some sort of a delivery device, either from the ground or airborne. I don't think its peticularly unlikely, especially since the Taliban gains nothing from an attack like this.


Ok my bad. But that is still a pretty elaborate plan to try to acheive the goal of creating more anti-Taliban sentiment in the area, which really couldnt be much of a factor anyway. Then you have to figure that the US would figure there is the possibility of others taking it as a sign to join the the fight against the US now. (the jihad is ON!!!...and all that shit)

The Taliban isn't an army like nations have. It relies on the population for recruits and some supplies, like the Vietcong in Vietnam. If the perception is created that the Taliban is attacking children in school, then the hearts of the people supporting the Taliban might sway to the government.

Look at it this way. A gas attack like this requires lots of planning, resources, and knowledge. Assuming the Taliban have all three in the required amounts, why would they waste a really good weapon against a target that would only hurt them in the long run? Think about it. It makes no sense for the Taliban to attack a school, and all the sense in the world for the United States (using a false flag operation) to.

It wouldn't be that hard. The US still has stocks of chemical weapons, and all thats required would be some sort of a delivery device, either from the ground or airborne. I don't think its peticularly unlikely, especially since the Taliban gains nothing from an attack like this.

Yes, but then it would leak that we did it and subsequently blow up in our faces.

Haven't you been watching every time we try to pull shit off?

Yes, but then it would leak that we did it and subsequently blow up in our faces.

Haven't you been watching every time we try to pull shit off?

But not for a while. Since its only been a matter of weeks, its not surprising we haven't seen anyone come forward.

The Taliban isn't an army like nations have. It relies on the population for recruits and some supplies, like the Vietcong in Vietnam. If the perception is created that the Taliban is attacking children in school, then the hearts of the people supporting the Taliban might sway to the government.
But that's goal that can be easily acheived by showing old videos of Taliban beating women and other assholish things they do.

Look at it this way. A gas attack like this requires lots of planning, resources, and knowledge. Assuming the Taliban have all three in the required amounts, why would they waste a really good weapon against a target that would only hurt them in the long run? Think about it. It makes no sense for the Taliban to attack a school, and all the sense in the world for the United States (using a false flag operation) to.

Girls NOT getting an educadion is very important to the Taliban. bin Ladin recently said that the Taliban are the only REAL Muslims. Seems like the Taliban is trying to live up to his expectations.

But that's goal that can be easily acheived by showing old videos of Taliban beating women and other assholish things they do.

But this makes it personable. Alot of these conservative muslims could care less what happens to women in cities. But kids is something completely different. Its on of those "oh my Allah, this could happen to me!" kind of things.


Girls NOT getting an educadion is very important to the Taliban. bin Ladin recently said that the Taliban are the only REAL Muslims. Seems like the Taliban is trying to live up to his expectations.

On a strategic level, no. The taliban aren't your average fundamentalist group. They are smart, cunning, and strategically logical. When you have a weapon like this, why not use it on an American base, or something tactically vital? Why use it on a school, on a mission that will only hurt you in the long run? Based on Taliban maneuvers in the past, this does not make sense.

But this makes it personable. Alot of these conservative muslims could care less what happens to women in cities. But kids is something completely different. Its on of those "oh my Allah, this could happen to me!" kind of things.

Ok you got me on circumstantial evidence with that.

On a strategic level, no. The taliban aren't your average fundamentalist group. They are smart, cunning, and strategically logical. When you have a weapon like this, why not use it on an American base, or something tactically vital? Why use it on a school, on a mission that will only hurt you in the long run? Based on Taliban maneuvers in the past, this does not make sense.

Well the question is, are these schools guarded? It would be much easier to sneek a stink bomb into a school at night than on to a militray base. (and it would have been obvious by now if it had been some sort of missile that delivered the gas)

Well the question is, are these schools guarded? It would be much easier to sneek a stink bomb into a school at night than on to a militray base. (and it would have been obvious by now if it had been some sort of missile that delivered the gas)
Since we know that it was a rural school, I'm going to take an educated guess that such a school would have little space to hide a bomb, and any foreign device would be quickly noticed by teachers and the like. If I had to make an educated guess, I'd say the gas came from an outside source. Which brings us back to the Taliban having the resources and knowlege to manufacture a reasonably harmful gas in quantity, concentrate it for transport, construct a gas dispertion divice, and after all that have the dispersed gas maintain enough density over an area to cause harmful effects.

I don't buy that the Taliban, even if they had the resources and such for this kind of attack, would waste not one, but three such devices on strategically meaningless targets.

Since we know that it was a rural school, I'm going to take an educated guess that such a school would have little space to hide a bomb, and any foreign device would be quickly noticed by teachers and the like.

An attic, basement, inside the wall....

If I had to make an educated guess, I'd say the gas came from an outside source. Which brings us back to the Taliban having the resources and knowlege to manufacture a reasonably harmful gas in quantity, concentrate it for transport, construct a gas dispertion divice, and after all that have the dispersed gas maintain enough density over an area to cause harmful effects.

They DO have black market connections you know. (they bought a place at the table will all that opium growing in Afghanistan)

I don't buy that the Taliban, even if they had the resources and such for this kind of attack, would waste not one, but three such devices on strategically meaningless targets.

But then how do they deliver this gas upon a heavily guarded, stratigic target? If they have it, may as well use it on something. ...Use it on a girl school. bin Ladin would like that. If he's "da man" you want to keep his morale high.

Are we talking about the actions of the adherents or just the tenets of the religion? Because in either case, it seems to hate everyone who doesn't fall under a very specific criteria, the specifics of said criteria changing now and again to serve agendas.

On days like today I am want to say 'both'.

As the Taliban dude said in the article, attacks against children arn't the way of the holy warrior.This is where I started laughing.

Making a poison gas is pretty easy, all things considered. The hard part would be making it in quantity, transporting it, and deploying it from outside a building and having it drift inside whilst maintaining a concentration high enough to cause adverse health effects. That takes knowledge and equipment.

Not so hard either. The internet provides any number of recipes for concocting home made poison gas out of household goods. Bleach and chlorine being one of them.

However, the local witnesses say it smelled like Malatin, a chemical apparently both common in the area and used to kill pests at farms. This suggests that it is easy enough to gather in quantity and transport discretely to anyone with sufficient local knowledge.

As to who did it? Who knows. Could be a Taliban splinter group, could be the US, could be your average Timothy McVeigh wannabe with a poison gas flavor. The field is fairly wide.


On a strategic level, no. The taliban aren't your average fundamentalist group. They are smart, cunning, and strategically logical. When you have a weapon like this, why not use it on an American base, or something tactically vital? Why use it on a school, on a mission that will only hurt you in the long run? Based on Taliban maneuvers in the past, this does not make sense.

Even if the Taliban did intend to use gas weapons, this is a piss poor one. It's only affected people with not very robust constitutions, children, and hasn't even killed anyone yet. Also, I suspect most American bases have some level of NBC equipment for ready use among its soldiers. I think if the Taliban intended to use gas weapons to use against US forces, they would have cooked up something better.