NationStates Jolt Archive

That is the dilemma this student is facing after his school threatened to suspend him if he goes to his girlfriends' Prom.

A student at a fundamentalist Baptist school that forbids dancing, rock music, hand-holding and kissing will be suspended if he takes his girlfriend to her public high school prom, his principal said.

Despite the warning, 17-year-old Tyler Frost, who has never been to a dance before, said he plans to attend Findlay High School's prom Saturday.

Frost, a senior at Heritage Christian School in northwest Ohio, agreed to the school's rules when he signed a statement of cooperation at the beginning of the year, principal Tim England said.

The teen, who is scheduled to receive his diploma May 24, would be suspended from classes and receive an "incomplete" on remaining assignments, England said. Frost also would not be permitted to attend graduation but would get a diploma once he completes final exams. If Frost is involved with alcohol or sex at the prom, he will be expelled, England said.

Frost's stepfather Stephan Johnson said the school's rules should not apply outside the classroom.

"He deserves to wear that cap and gown," Johnson said.

Frost said he thought he had handled the situation properly. Findlay requires students from other schools attending the prom to get a signature from their principal, which Frost did.

"I expected a short lecture about making the right decisions and not doing something stupid," Frost said. "I thought I would get his signature and that would be the end."

England acknowledged signing the form but warned Frost there would be consequences if he attended the dance. England then took the issue to a school committee made up of church members, who decided to threaten Frost with suspension.

"In life, we constantly make decisions whether we are going to please self or please God. (Frost) chose one path, and the school committee chose the other," England said.

The handbook for the 84-student Christian school says rock music "is part of the counterculture which seeks to implant seeds of rebellion in young people's hearts and minds."

England said Frost's family should not be surprised by the school's position.

"For the parents to claim any injustice regarding this issue is at best forgetful and at worst disingenuous," he said. "It is our hope that the student and his parents will abide by the policies they have already agreed to."

The principal at Findlay High School, whose graduates include Pittsburgh Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger, said he respects, but does not agree with, Heritage Christian School's view of prom.

"I don't see (dancing and rock music) as immoral acts," Craig Kupferberg said.

So, what say you NSG? How completely out of touch is this school, and what should the young man do?

Edit: link to article http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090508/ap_on_re_us/us_school_dance_flap

he probably never should have enrolled at that school

Go to prom, and sue.

Unfortunately, children don't normally get to choose which school to attend.

Proms are cheesy and stupid. Logically, he should graduate.

Not to say that the school aren't being total asshats, though.

Not only would I go to prom I'd enroll immediately into a public school, preferably the one my girlfriend is going to. Then as I was leaving I'd gorilla glue the drawers on the principle's desk shut and put live lobsters in all the toilets. I'd also invite Lamb of God to play at my Graduation Party. Call me vindictive if you want to.

Proms are cheesy and stupid. Logically, he should graduate.

Not to say that the school aren't being total asshats, though.

What is worth the graduation obtained from a school of total asshats?
He should go to the prom, then sue the asshats. So he gets the girlfriend, the graduation, the money, and the revenge.

What is worth the graduation obtained from a school of total asshats?
He should go to the prom, then sue the asshats. So he gets the girlfriend, the graduation, the money, and the revenge.

This is, of course, presuming that he would win the case. Which, since he seems to have agreed to the restrictions the school imposes (though the level of choice he had in the matter is debatable) would seem to be no means guaranteed.

This is, of course, presuming that he would win the case. Which, since he seems to have agreed to the restrictions the school imposes (though the level of choice he had in the matter is debatable) would seem to be no means guaranteed.

It would be very strange that school rules apply to behaviour outside of school... expecially when he isn't doing anything illegal.

Screw the fundies, anywhere, anytime.

Findlay requires students from other schools attending the prom to get a signature from their principal, which Frost did.
...
England acknowledged signing the form...

nicely done!

What is worth the graduation obtained from a school of total asshats?About as much as from every other school. In the end, the most important thing is simply to have one. Plenty of places don't really care much more than that about it.

Solution: Turn gay and go to a gay prom. If suspended, sue and win for discrimination.

This is kinda like my thread without the robot and Jesuses. Interesting format.

Hah. I just posted this article in the new forum. Great minds think about pie.

Go to prom, and sue.

His parents (and he, presumably) signed a contract. I'm not sure they can sue.

Hah. I just posted this article in the new forum. Great minds think about pie.

Indeed. :)

Hah. I just posted this article in the new forum. Great minds think about pie.

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a205/ulteriormotives/Youre-a-MONSTER.jpg

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a205/ulteriormotives/Youre-a-MONSTER.jpg

My apologies -- I shall endeavor to tread more gingerly from here on out.

Follow the principal and committee members around for a few days. Record some videos of them sinning (trust me, you'll find plenty), point out their hypocrisy, and go to prom. They will disregard all logic and bar you from graduation, but at least you'll have a moral victory.

Follow the principal and committee members around for a few days. Record some videos of them sinning (trust me, you'll find plenty), point out their hypocrisy, and go to prom. They will disregard all logic and bar you from graduation, but at least you'll have a moral victory.

I like the way you think.

I don't know if he can legally sue if he agreed to the school's rules (unless perchance they are breaking their own rules or the rules are illegal), and it was a mistake to go to such a retarded school at all (probably his parent's mistake more than his, though). It is however shocking that a school would have such power over the lives of students outside of the school. I wonder if they could do this if he went to an completely non-school-related dance as well? However, I suppose a private school can be picky about who it admits.

Still, I respect someone making the decision to forgo academic success if it means kissing the fundi's asses. In any case, their are other schools, and other ways to academic and professional success. The decision, from what I've read in the article, sounds completely unjust and absurd. I just hope his girlfriend appreciates the sacrifice.

His parents (and he, presumably) signed a contract. I'm not sure they can sue.

That is what I feared, unfortunately.

I find this "school"'s backwardsness to be appalling. I mean, I know that a lot of Christian private schools have more stringent codes of conduct, but saying that "Rock music is evil?" Really? I thought we got over that in the fucking 80s!

AC/DC forever! \m/

Go to prom, and sue.

Solution: Turn gay and go to a gay prom. If suspended, sue and win for discrimination.

sue for what?

It is a private school. They can deny graduation for whatever reason they choose, particularly if a student expressly agreed to their rules which they are then enforcing. Even if it was a gay prom, the boy still agreed to not go.

Solution: Turn gay and go to a gay prom. If suspended, sue and win for discrimination.

A private religious school with an explicit and general insistence that its student body be compliant with its moral standards is not a public accommodation. He would probably lose that lawsuit, too.

Edit: For the record, I doubt Ohio has anti-discrimination laws with respect to sexual orientation.

A private religious school with an explicit and general insistence that its student body be compliant with its moral standards is not a public accommodation. He would probably lose that lawsuit, too.

His best chance would be to hope that public backlash will force the school to realize they are being complete dicks.

His best chance would be to hope that public backlash will force the school to realize they are being complete dicks.

If the school bans rock music and dancing, I doubt they're too concerned with public opinion. They sound like they're the high school version of Bob Jones University

If the school bans rock music and dancing, I doubt they're too concerned with public opinion. They sound like they're the high school version of Bob Jones University

Yeah, but that's still a better chance than a lawsuit. I'm not saying it's a good chance, it's just the best he has.

Yeah, but that's still a better chance than a lawsuit. I'm not saying it's a good chance, it's just the best he has.

He's better off just (a) not going to Prom (I mean, of all the things to be stubborn about...) or (b) just not bothering with graduation. They said they'd give him a diploma....

He's better off just (a) not going to Prom (I mean, of all the things to be stubborn about...) or (b) just not bothering with graduation. They said they'd give him a diploma....

Well, as my Prom is tonight, I would be greatly pissed if someone told me I couldn't go because it's a sin.

I honestly doubt God will cast you to Hell because you danced.

This reminds me of a line from the Simpsons where Ned calls Rev. Lovejoy:

"Reverend, I'm so ashamed. I was dancing and my...my buttocks touched another man's buttocks."

The kid cannot sue the school because he is (presumably) bound by a legal agreement so the smart thing for him to do would be to just not go to that dance and graduate.

A diploma looks much better than a GED so logically thats the best decision.

The kid cannot sue the school because he is (presumably) bound by a legal agreement so the smart thing for him to do would be to just not go to that dance and graduate.

A diploma looks much better than a GED so logically thats the best decision.

From what the article says, he'll still get his diploma...he just won't get to walk at the official graduation ceremony.

No matter what happens, all I know is, when the day comes that I do get married and have a child, I would never, ever send them to an ass-backwards school like that.

God, I didn't know people still thought it was the f-ing 1950s and that rock music, what with its fast beats and enjoyable melodies, was the work of Satan.

I bet God's headbanging to "Highway to Hell" by AC/DC right now, and looking at this school and muttering, "Idiots."

The kid cannot sue the school because he is (presumably) bound by a legal agreement so the smart thing for him to do would be to just not go to that dance and graduate.

A diploma looks much better than a GED so logically thats the best decision.
He'll still get a diploma, it will just be late and he won't be able to walk with the rest of his class.

As far as I'm concerned both prom and high school graduation are kinda lame, but prom would probably be less lame for him since he'll be going with his girlfriend and all this. Like really, if he doesn't walk across the stage in a cap and gown then, he can do it for undergrad.

Well, as my Prom is tonight, I would be greatly pissed if someone told me I couldn't go because it's a sin.

You can't go. It's a sin. ;)

But, seriously, Prom is generally (a) more effort and money than it's worth and (b) not worth getting into trouble over.

I honestly doubt God will cast you to Hell because you danced.

Iit's just another entry on a long list of the sins that make me hell-bound, so I don't particularly care what God thinks of it. I'll gladly dance my way to damnation.

(But cheaply. And without dressing up.)

You can't go. It's a sin. ;)

But, seriously, Prom is generally (a) more effort and money than it's worth and (b) not worth getting into trouble over.



It's just another entry on a long list of the sins that make me hell-bound, so I don't particularly care. I'll gladly dance my way to damnation.

(But cheaply. And without dressing up.)

"Dance my way to damnation"

Song title!

Iit's just another entry on a long list of the sins that make me hell-bound, so I don't particularly care what God thinks of it. I'll gladly dance my way to damnation.

(But cheaply. And without dressing up.)

Meanwhile, He's up in heaven yelling down, "What? Why do people always think I have a problem? Who do you think invented grinding? Dance, dammit, dance!"

Well, as my Prom is tonight, I would be greatly pissed if someone told me I couldn't go because it's a sin.

I honestly doubt God will cast you to Hell because you danced.

This reminds me of a line from the Simpsons where Ned calls Rev. Lovejoy:

"Reverend, I'm so ashamed. I was dancing and my...my buttocks touched another man's buttocks."

You can do better than that -- haven't you seen Footloose? Dancing is in the Bible, fer cryin' out loud! Ecclesiastes says there's a time for every purpose under Heaven, including a time to dance.

You can do better than that -- haven't you seen Footloose? Dancing is in the Bible, fer cryin' out loud! Ecclesiastes says there's a time for every purpose under Heaven, including a time to dance.

Ahh! I have failt you, NSG!

Meanwhile, He's up in heaven yelling down, "What? Why do people always think I have a problem? Who do you think invented grinding? Dance, dammit, dance!"

That reminds me of Bill Hicks on God creating marijuana.

"There it is, my creation, perfect in every way. Now I can rest. *pause*

Oh my me...I left fuckin' POT everywhere! I shouldn't have smoked that joint on the fifth day. If I've left post everywhere, that's gonna give humans the idea that it's natural and that they're supposed to USE it! Shit.

Now I have to create Republicans."

Ahh! I have failt you, NSG!

'S okay. Not everyone can stand the intensity of a young Kevin Bacon combined with Kenny Loggins AND Bonnie Tyler on the soundtrack. That's some serious stuff.

I'm pretty sure school rules only apply as long as he is in school.
If there is any unpunished break of school rules when outside of school, he could call that basis for his arguement.
He needs to find the principle breaking school dress code at his house.

Any chance of finding a copy of the document he signed?

Personally, I feel if the school doesn't cave in to the public backlash, then he should go and just get his diploma late. It's totally unreasonable for a school to give you mandates on your behavior outside of school and off their grounds. It's infringing upon our freedom to live our own lives as individuals, which is something so many of these fundamentalist religious groups forget far too often for my liking.

Solution: Turn gay and go to a gay prom. If suspended, sue and win for discrimination.There is nothing illegal about discriminating against gay people, in most jurisdictions including this one.

That is the dilemma this student is facing after his school threatened to suspend him if he goes to his girlfriends' Prom.



So, what say you NSG? How completely out of touch is this school, and what should the young man do?

Edit: link to article http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090508/ap_on_re_us/us_school_dance_flap
I think he should not have asked permission of his principal.
I think his principal and the school board are a bunch of fascist pricks.
I think he should not go to the prom, get his diploma, and then after having it safe in hand, take out a full page ad in the local paper denouncing their nut-job control freak bullshit. Extra points if he can get Kevin Bacon to speak out against these fundy assholes reenacting a film he put behind him a quarter of a century ago.

I think he should not have asked permission of his principal.
I think his principal and the school board are a bunch of fascist pricks.
I think he should not go to the prom, get his diploma, and then after having it safe in hand, take out a full page ad in the local paper denouncing their nut-job control freak bullshit. Extra points if he can get Kevin Bacon to speak out against these fundy assholes reenacting a film he put behind him a quarter of a century ago.

^ This ^

He's better off just (a) not going to Prom (I mean, of all the things to be stubborn about...) or (b) just not bothering with graduation. They said they'd give him a diploma....
i could not disagree with you more.

he should go to prom AND he should show up for graduation and force the bastards to kick him out.

so what if prom is lame? he wants to go and he has every right to go. AND it would be stupid of him to bow to the authority of idiots. part of growing up is learning when to obey and when to tell someone to shove it. this is a shove-it moment.

The graduation ceremony is more important to everyone. However, he can likely get both since it is in the papers and I bet the opposing principal thinks this is dumb. Go and get them to write a note to his principal that he did not attend the dance.

i could not disagree with you more.

he should go to prom AND he should show up for graduation and force the bastards to kick him out.

so what if prom is lame? he wants to go and he has every right to go. AND it would be stupid of him to bow to the authority of idiots. part of growing up is learning when to obey and when to tell someone to shove it. this is a shove-it moment.

^^^This


Skallvia approves this plan of action!

I think he should not have asked permission of his principal.
I think his principal and the school board are a bunch of fascist pricks.
I think he should not go to the prom, get his diploma, and then after having it safe in hand, take out a full page ad in the local paper denouncing their nut-job control freak bullshit. Extra points if he can get Kevin Bacon to speak out against these fundy assholes reenacting a film he put behind him a quarter of a century ago.

*sigh*

Why are my posts invisible? ;)

You can do better than that -- haven't you seen Footloose? Dancing is in the Bible, fer cryin' out loud! Ecclesiastes says there's a time for every purpose under Heaven, including a time to dance.

I think his principal and the school board are a bunch of fascist pricks.

They are crazy puritanical religious fanatics for having their rules in the first place. But they are not "fascist pricks" for expecting people who have agreed to abide by them to actually abide by them.

No one is compelled to go to a religiously fanatical private school. (If he was forced by his parents, that would make his parents the "fascist pricks", not the school.)

so what if prom is lame? he wants to go and he has every right to go.

I have disputed neither of these statements.

AND it would be stupid of him to bow to the authority of idiots.

Then he should dispense with graduation and proudly proclaim his rejection of his school and its policies.

But he should not (and probably cannot) have his cake and eat it too: if he breaks the rules (which he knew beforehand and agreed to obey), he has no right to expect the school to simply accept it.

*snip*

Establishment, :rolleyes:

:p

But, yeah, Id say he should screw going to Graduation, he still gets his diploma, and Id say pissing off a bunch of Fundamentalist Pricks is more important than wearing a silly robe...

They are crazy puritanical religious fanatics for having their rules in the first place. But they are not "fascist pricks" for expecting people who have agreed to abide by them to actually abide by them.

No one is compelled to go to a religiously fanatical private school. (If he was forced by his parents, that would make his parents the "fascist pricks", not the school.)



I have disputed neither of these statements.



Then he should dispense with graduation and proudly proclaim his rejection of his school and its policies.

But he should not (and probably cannot) have his cake and eat it too: if he breaks the rules (which he knew beforehand and agreed to obey), he has no right to expect the school to simply accept it.
he should do what he thinks is right regardless of what the school might decide to do.

showing up for graduation makes a statement that he finds their policies wrong. he would (obviously) have to be willing to be escorted from the venue.

its a cheap way to learn an important lesson.

Well, as my Prom is tonight, I would be greatly pissed if someone told me I couldn't go because it's a sin.
You can't go, it's a sin.
I honestly doubt God will cast you to Hell because you danced.
Do you really want to take that chance?

Do you really want to take that chance?

Well, personally, if God sends people to Hell based on preference of Music, Mates and where/when they hang out with them...

then id gladly walk into Hell, and join whatever army Satan has going...

Establishment, :rolleyes:

It's a strange feeling....

he should do what he thinks is right regardless of what the school might decide to do.

"Right" has nothing to do it. He is not morally obligated to go to the Prom and take a stand against absurdity. As far as courageous moral stances go, this one ranks pretty low: it's hard to see him as a victim.

showing up for graduation makes a statement that he finds their policies wrong.

No, it doesn't. Going to Prom, perhaps, makes such a statement.

Going to graduation after being forbidden from doing so shows only that he does not have the courage of his convictions: after effectively condemning his school as absurd and breaking its rules, he demands that it treat him as any other student.

He would in effect be asking the school not to take him seriously.

Well, personally, if God sends people to Hell based on preference of Music, Mates and where/when they hang out with them...

then id gladly walk into Hell, and join whatever army Satan has going...

I'm just giving HP a hard time...

God doesn't send people to hell based on their choice of music, he can't. Figments of someone's imagination are incapable of doing anything.

Figments of someone's imagination are incapable of doing anything.

I disagree.

I disagree.

That's nice.

That's nice.

Lol. But if you think about it, God is capable of stopping people from doing things, without even existing. Some people won't have sex before marriage because they believe God doesn't want them to, for example.

Lol. But if you think about it, God is capable of stopping people from doing things, without even existing. Some people won't have sex before marriage because they believe God doesn't want them to, for example.

That's the people doing that to themselves.

No, it doesn't. Going to Prom, perhaps, makes such a statement.

Going to graduation after being forbidden from doing so shows only that he does not have the courage of his convictions: after effectively condemning his school as absurd and breaking its rules, he demands that it treat him as any other student.

He would in effect be asking the school not to take him seriously.

Indeed. Though it may be on a separate scale, great men like MLK accomplished their deeds, not by attempting to escape the consequences of their actions, but by being willing to accept those consequences in the belief that defiance was worth it.

This is a battle that will not be won by demanding the best of both worlds, but instead by accepting the consequences of whatever he chooses.

Though it may be on a separate scale, great men like MLK accomplished their deeds, not by attempting to escape the consequences of their actions, but by being willing to accept those consequences in the belief that defiance was worth it.

This case is not even comparable to that. The school's policy (unlike segregation) is not even unjust. It is absurd, yes, but that is not the same thing: they have the right to make rules promoting values we find absurd.

This case is not even comparable to that. The school's policy (unlike segregation) is not even unjust. It is absurd, yes, but that is not the same thing: they have the right to make rules promoting values we find absurd.

What I'm saying though, is that you can't make a statement by trying to avoid the consequences of your actions. As you said, it demonstrates a lack of conviction.

This case is not even comparable to that. The school's policy (unlike segregation) is not even unjust. It is absurd, yes, but that is not the same thing: they have the right to make rules promoting values we find absurd.

They may have the right to do it, but that doesnt make the rule itself right...

Fact is, Segregationists, at the time, had every right to do what they did, it took courageous actions and protest to rid them of that right...

If the kid thinks he should be able to go to the prom, and wants future students of the fundie school to have that right, fact is, he will have to protest it...

That's the people doing that to themselves.

Threadjack alert.

They may have the right to do it, but that doesnt make the rule itself right...

Fact is, Segregationists, at the time, had every right to do what they did, it took courageous actions and protest to rid them of that right...

If the kid thinks he should be able to go to the prom, and wants future students of the fundie school to have that right, fact is, he will have to protest it...

he can go to Jesus prom like all the fundie kids.

he can go to Jesus prom like all the fundie kids.

I bet there won't even be any alcohol. What the hell kind of Jesus wouldn't have alcohol at his parties? :p

What I'm saying though, is that you can't make a statement by trying to avoid the consequences of your actions.

In a case of outright injustice (say, when a group of people is denied political rights), it is a different case: I deny not only the legitimacy of the policy but also the authority of the powers that be to decide upon it. Why then should I accept the punishments I have been assigned? I need not subordinate myself to an illegitimate authority: I need not accept the connection between "actions" and "consequences" that an unjust power has imposed. This shows no failure of conviction, because I am not asking for the approval of said power: I am rejecting any need at all for its approval.

In this case, however, there is nothing illegitimate about the school's authority: it is a private school with rules that were made clear from the outset, rules to which the student consented. The student may (quite rightly) find the rules absurd, and he has no obligation to obey them, but if he breaks them he can hardly complain if the school responds by doing what is within its rights by denying him a place at graduation. Any such complaint would bespeak a lack of conviction because the school is within its rights: he thus cannot object to its authority to make the decision or to have its rules, but only to the decision itself, in which case he is saying that the school should not enforce the rules to which is committed, an argument that can only be sustained if his rule-breaking is trivial and insignificant, the kind of thing that should be forgiven. If he wishes to make a protest, of course, by doing so he makes exactly the opposite assertion: his rule-breaking becomes not a brief moment of weakness but an assertion of principle.

They may have the right to do it, but that doesnt make the rule itself right...

No, it doesn't. But while the rule is absurd it does not even mistreat anyone. It is similarly absurd to, say, expel a dinner guest from your house for cursing. But would it not be petty and obnoxious for said guest to resist your demand? It is your house; it is their school.

Fact is, Segregationists, at the time, had every right to do what they did, it took courageous actions and protest to rid them of that right...

Legal right, perhaps (but only very doubtfully, on a non-disingenuous reading of the Fourteenth Amendment). Moral right, no.

If the kid thinks he should be able to go to the prom, and wants future students of the fundie school to have that right, fact is, he will have to protest it...

It is hardly a protest-worthy offense. If students disagree with the moral values of the school, they should go elsewhere. If they agree with said moral values but find this particular rule problematic, they can discuss it and negotiate with the administration. They do not have the right to redress, however, because no wrong has been done to them.

I bet there won't even be any alcohol. What the hell kind of Jesus wouldn't have alcohol at his parties? :p

grape juice, alcohol was a mistranslation *NOD*

"Right" has nothing to do it. He is not morally obligated to go to the Prom and take a stand against absurdity. As far as courageous moral stances go, this one ranks pretty low: it's hard to see him as a victim.




of course right has something to do with it.

the claim that going to prom is a SIN is wrong. completely wrong. stupidly wrong.

if he WANTS to go to prom and if he finds, after prayer and meditation, that the bible does not ban proms or rock music or dancing or whatever else they might claim then he should go to prom.

of course its not an important thing whether or not he goes to prom or whether or not he goes to graduation. ITS A LESSON. standing up to fools in authority takes practice. if you cant make a stand when there is almost nothing on the line how in the world can you expect to take a stand when it is important, when you have everything to lose?

grape juice, alcohol was a mistranslation *NOD*

It's impossible to translate the Bible incorrectly. It says so in the Bible. :)

the claim that going to prom is a SIN is wrong. completely wrong. stupidly wrong.

People are allowed to be wrong. And they are allowed to set up institutions for people who share their wrong beliefs, institutions that are governed by rules rooted in their wrong opinions.

standing up to fools in authority takes practice.

All right. Stand up to them. But do not insist that they refrain from responding in kind.

That, too, teaches all the wrong lessons.

I'm still not sure how to think of this.

On one hand, I would really admire the kid if he did stand up and take this all the way. At the same time, on grounds of prudence and risk/gain calculation, I'd advise him not to.

You can do better than that -- haven't you seen Footloose? Dancing is in the Bible, fer cryin' out loud! Ecclesiastes says there's a time for every purpose under Heaven, including a time to dance.

Damnit, I was going to make the first Footloose reference! Interesting side note, the local orthodox Jewish school is doing a production of "Footloose: the musical!" I found it ironic that Jews were doing a stage version of a film popularised by Bacon..

Anyway, he should go to prom, secretly fuck his girlfriend silly and drink lots of alcohol, film it, miss graduation but still get his diploma, then send the principal a copy of the footage. Just to be a jerkface.

I'm still not sure how to think of this.

On one hand, I would really admire the kid if he did stand up and take this all the way. At the same time, on grounds of prudence and risk/gain calculation, I'd advise him not to.

Wow, Sailor Moon avatar. I think I preferred Pinky. Seemed more... you.

People are allowed to be wrong. And they are allowed to set up institutions for people who share their wrong beliefs, institutions that are governed by rules rooted in their wrong opinions.



All right. Stand up to them. But do not insist that they refrain from responding in kind.

That, too, teaches all the wrong lessons.
perhaps part of the lesson is learning that even when the fool in authority is wrong you still have to take your punishment. the school administration is unlikely to decide that the student is right.

I bet there won't even be any alcohol. What the hell kind of Jesus wouldn't have alcohol at his parties? :p
Dude, he brought the wine when there was nothing but water at that wedding!

i could not disagree with you more.

he should go to prom AND he should show up for graduation and force the bastards to kick him out.Which I'm sure they would have no problem doing.

so what if prom is lame? he wants to go and he has every right to go. AND it would be stupid of him to bow to the authority of idiots. part of growing up is learning when to obey and when to tell someone to shove it. this is a shove-it moment.
He has no inherent right to go to prom, particularly after signing a document stating that he would not go to any event with rock music and dancing. He already bowed to the authority of those idiots the moment he signed his name on the line. He agreed not to go to an event like prom, then he is in no place to tell them to shove it. His issue is with his parents who likely selected the school, not the establishment itself.

Dude, he brought the wine when there was nothing but water at that wedding!

Exactly. He used his divine power to bring the booze. That's how important it was to Him. :)

Exactly. He used his divine power to bring the booze. That's how important it was to Him. :)

"And he said unto them, where any two or three are gathered together, thou shalt imbibe in the holy spirit, and, being blessed in My sight, shall be sozzled".

I bet there won't even be any alcohol. What the hell kind of Jesus wouldn't have alcohol at his parties? :p

heh, probably the same amount of alcohol as at a public school prom.

It's impossible to translate the Bible incorrectly. It says so in the Bible. :)

LMAO. Sigged.

lolReligion.

That's the people doing that to themselves.

But the figment of their imagination is what causes them to do it.

I consider this an early learning experience for the kid whos going to have to deal with the black and white thinking of religious zealotry for the rest of his life if he chooses to keep traveling down that path.

Did anyone else read the title as, "Go to Porn or Graduate?"
That would have been a much more interesting topic of discussion.

Did anyone else read the title as, "Go to Porn or Graduate?"

*raises hand and feels guilty*:$

Did anyone else read the title as, "Go to Porn or Graduate?"


before you mentioned it? no.

after you mentioned it?... well, I didn't know there was another option...

*raises hand and feels guilty*:$

*tries to idenitify Guilty and wonders why Nanatsu would feel him/her?*

His parents (and he, presumably) signed a contract. I'm not sure they can sue.

Pretty much my thoughts. He's voluntarily attending a private, parochial school when there are probably plenty of fine-n'-dandy public schools around, he's pretty much just screwed.

screwed how?

he still graduates. he still gets his sucky church school diploma. and now he gets to be slightly famous for standing up to fools.

and he got to go to the prom

I got suspended from prom/commencement. I went to prom anyway.....they didn't care. I slept through commencement (hang over from prom).

On topic......this kid is a brat and stuff. He knew the rules.....he signed it. He's just being a bratty kid.

Damn. Either I need a new monitor or glasses. (Or I should be in bed)

But I read "Go to Porn or Graduate".

Good night.

Did anyone else read the title as, "Go to Porn or Graduate?"
That would have been a much more interesting topic of discussion.
Yeah. Just saw that you read that also. Phew!

*tries to idenitify Guilty and wonders why Nanatsu would feel him?*
Hello. I'm Guilty.

That is the dilemma this student is facing after his school threatened to suspend him if he goes to his girlfriends' Prom.



So, what say you NSG? How completely out of touch is this school, and what should the young man do?

Edit: link to article http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090508/ap_on_re_us/us_school_dance_flap

It are weird people those Afghan Taliban ones. ;)

It are weird people those Afghan Taliban ones. ;)

Those are all English words, ive just never seen them put in that order before.

Those are all English words, ive just never seen them put in that order before.

It's English Jim, but not as we know it. :)

I got suspended from prom/commencement. I went to prom anyway.....they didn't care. I slept through commencement (hang over from prom).

On topic......this kid is a brat and stuff. He knew the rules.....he signed it. He's just being a bratty kid.

On topic... The school is fundie/fascist and stuff. They knew what the public backlash would be. They have brains somewhere there. They're just being a bunch of fascist fundies.:p

*tries to idenitify Guilty and wonders why Nanatsu would feel him/her?*
I don't wonder why Nanatsu is feeling them - I'm just wishing it were me.

On topic... The school is fundie/fascist and stuff. They knew what the public backlash would be. They have brains somewhere there. They're just being a bunch of fascist fundies.:p

With whom he is not forced to associate. He voluntarily went to the school, voluntarily signed the code thingy, voluntarily plans to break the rules. You do the crime, you do the time.

It's English Jim, but not as we know it. :)

:tongue: You just upped your "cool points".

Hello. I'm Guilty.

Hey, foo. No taking credit where it's my credit. She's feeling me up. Right now as a matter of fact. *wanders off*

Follow the principal and committee members around for a few days. Record some videos of them sinning (trust me, you'll find plenty), point out their hypocrisy, and go to prom. They will disregard all logic and bar you from graduation, but at least you'll have a moral victory.

I'd like to add one other thing to this. Set up a "Humiliate the fundies" fund, use the funds to take out advertising/billboard space. Publish the photos/videos in the local newspapers. If possible, put the pictures of them sinning on a large billboard outside the school.

Hey, foo. No taking credit where it's my credit. She's feeling me up. Right now as a matter of fact. *wanders off*
Well, I could still go graduate then, I think. :tongue:

In theory he could argue that the school rules only apply to what he does in school. Doubt it'll get him anywhere though.

It makes me wish I had a million dollars to donate to that school. Their ridiculous attitude toward music and dancing is going to drive more kids away from Christianity than any atheist organization ever could. They're creating the next generation of anti-Christians, Lord bless em, and I hope they never falter in their delightfully misguided effort to ensure that the next generation will associate all fun and joyful activities with secularism. :D

Hey, foo. No taking credit where it's my credit. She's feeling me up. Right now as a matter of fact. *wanders off*

:eek:

That is the dilemma this student is facing after his school threatened to suspend him if he goes to his girlfriends' Prom.



So, what say you NSG? How completely out of touch is this school[?], and what should the young man do?

Edit: link to article http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090508/ap_on_re_us/us_school_dance_flap
This is most certainly an intolerant question and you should be ashamed of yourself for passing this kind of judgment on people. The decision to go to prom or not should revolve around the "statement of cooperation" that was signed.

If he is a minor, then he is legally unable to sign a contract, yes? A minor has no contractual capacity or if they do, it is very restricted and can be disaffirmed easily. The school has no real grounds to stand upon, imo.

This is most certainly an intolerant question and you should be ashamed of yourself for passing this kind of judgment on people. The decision to go to prom or not should revolve around the "statement of cooperation" that was signed.

I'd like to see the language of that statement. Depending on the wording, it could be argued as illegal I suspect.

This is most certainly an intolerant question and you should be ashamed of yourself for passing this kind of judgment on people.

Why?

What is there to be ashamed of in this case? Why shouldn't people pass judgment on a school's policies? Why is this public discussion forum not an appropriate place to debate such topics?

It's one thing if you want to disagree with people, Myrm, but this paternalistic bleating about how we oughtn't judge anybody is really weird. If anything, I think the world would be a better place if more people exercised their judgment more often. Since you feel otherwise, perhaps you'd like to share your reasoning?


The decision to go to prom or not should revolve around the "statement of cooperation" that was signed.
Why?

I mean sure, I think the kid shouldn't have signed it in the first place, but so what if he did? It sounds like the school and the administration were extremely vague and unclear in how they dealt with him, to the point where the principal signed a form for this kid to go to the other school's prom while simultaneously telling him to not go. The school administrators are the adults, in this case, and they appear to have behaved in a sloppy and immature manner. I don't blame any young person for declining to obey the tantrums of grown adults who can't even seem to make up their minds what they think about rock music.

If he is a minor, then he is legally unable to sign a contract, yes? A minor has no contractual capacity or if they do, it is very restricted and can be disaffirmed easily. The school has no real grounds to stand upon, imo.

Uh...if there was a contract of any legally binding nature, I'm sure the parents were the ones whose signatures mattered.

It seems stupid to me, but what seems even stupider is that this kid is even considering braeking the rules and fucking up his schooling, right at the end of it. Don't go, boff the girlfriend when she gets back from it!

I mean sure, I think the kid shouldn't have signed it in the first place, but so what if he did? It sounds like the school and the administration were extremely vague and unclear in how they dealt with him, to the point where the principal signed a form for this kid to go to the other school's prom while simultaneously telling him to not go. The school administrators are the adults, in this case, and they appear to have behaved in a sloppy and immature manner. I don't blame any young person for declining to obey the tantrums of grown adults who can't even seem to make up their minds what they think about rock music.
In signing the permission slip that the other school required, they're allowing him to make a choice. He gets to choose between honoring a promise that he made when he started the school, or ignoring that promise for the prom.

It seems stupid to me, but what seems even stupider is that this kid is even considering braeking the rules and fucking up his schooling, right at the end of it. Don't go, boff the girlfriend when she gets back from it!
Actually, not walking in the graduation, but getting the diploma anyway, sounds like the right decision.

The school did him a favor by making him famous for fighting against religious intolerence.

In signing the permission slip that the other school required, they're allowing him to make a choice. He gets to choose between honoring a promise that he made when he started the school, or ignoring that promise for the prom.
His principle should have told him out-right when he went to get the form signed what the consequences would be if he went. Not just signed it, thusly giving tacit approval to his attendance as is what apparently happened.
Actually, not walking in the graduation, but getting the diploma anyway, sounds like the right decision.
On this I agree with you Myrm.

It seems stupid to me, but what seems even stupider is that this kid is even considering braeking the rules and fucking up his schooling, right at the end of it. Don't go, boff the girlfriend when she gets back from it!
its already done.

he went to the prom, got suspended and will not be allowed to go to the graduation ceremony.

good for him! especially if he got laid!