NationStates Jolt Archive

A neighbor today came to my door asking for tabasco sauce to discipline her child. I wasn't really sure what was going on, so I said "no" and called the police because I couldn't imagine what she would be doing with it.

Apparently, she was going to "spank his tongue" for being "sassy" to her. The cop says it's not abuse.....I really think it is.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,3604,1308220,00.html

Regardless of whether it's illegal or not......do you think it's abusive? What about washing mouths out with soap?

I think any of that crazy punishment with props thing is, if nothing else, so uncool and immature that it should be severely discouraged on the grounds that it sends very bad messages, makes the parent look ridiculous, and probably leads to all kinds things a person will need relationship therapy for when they grow up -- like being a "24" fan.

Also, what if her kid likes Tabasco sauce? I can put that stuff right on my tongue without wincing.

Finally, if the cops don't think Tabasco is an instrument of abuse, advise them to try pouring it down a drain and rinsing said drain with very hot water. It will remind them vividly of their tear-gas training. I speak from experience. My house had to be evacuated. And I like the stuff.

Weakest Punishment Ever.

well, personally, it wouldnt bother me, Ive developed a pretty good tolerance of hotsauces, if I do say so myself, I can drink the regular kind straight out of the bottle, lol...

But, yeah, forcing it on the kid, presumably in high enough doses to be painful to him/her would be pretty abusive in my book...

Also, what if her kid likes Tobasco sauce? I can put that stuff right on my tongue without wincing.That was the problem with my brother. It wasn't a punishment.

My mom did that for a remarkably brief period, and only for swearing. I hated the stuff when I was a kid, but it wasn't effective at all. Abuse though? Nah, not unless it's some ridiculously hot sauce, like millions of scoville units hot, then that probably is abuse.

That was the problem with my brother. It wasn't a punishment.

My mom did that for a remarkably brief period, and only for swearing. I hated the stuff when I was a kid, but it wasn't effective at all. Abuse though? Nah, not unless it's some ridiculously hot sauce, like millions of scoville units hot, then that probably is abuse.

Does the age of the kid come into that? How is it not abusive? What about washing the mouth out with soap?

That was the problem with my brother. It wasn't a punishment.

My mom did that for a remarkably brief period, and only for swearing. I hated the stuff when I was a kid, but it wasn't effective at all. Abuse though? Nah, not unless it's some ridiculously hot sauce, like millions of scoville units hot, then that probably is abuse.

My cousin, who never ate spicy food, has been known to cry over a strong onion.

Tolerances vary. I'd say tobasco-on-the-tongue most certainly CAN be abuse.

Does the age of the kid come into that? How is it not abusive? What about washing the mouth out with soap?

My cousin, who never ate spicy food, has been known to cry over a strong onion.

Tolerances vary. I'd say tobasco-on-the-tongue most certainly CAN be abuse.Fair enough. I guess my tolerance as a kid was higher than I thought.

I think any of that crazy punishment with props thing is, if nothing else, so uncool and immature that it should be severely discouraged on the grounds that it sends very bad messages, makes the parent look ridiculous, and probably leads to all kinds things a person will need relationship therapy for when they grow up -- like being a "24" fan.
Even acting on 24 warps the mind, caused Kiefer to try and take out a guy with his head.

"Hotsaucing" certainly can be abuse, any punishment can be; it depends on the extent of the punishment and for what reasons it is carried out. I do agree with the author of the Guardian article that there is a degree of calculation that makes it scarier, but I don't know if it is physically worse than spanking. It is kind of weird you're neighbor asked you to chip in, though.

It is kind of weird you're neighbor asked you to chip in, though.

This.

"Hotsaucing" certainly can be abuse, any punishment can be; it depends on the extent of the punishment and for what reasons it is carried out. I do agree with the author of the Guardian article that there is a degree of calculation that makes it scarier, but I don't know if it is physically worse than spanking. It is kind of weird you're neighbor asked you to chip in, though.
Aye to the bolded parts. It's fucking creepy. I'd never heard of it before and really wish I hadn't. Count on Smunkee to deliver Tales from the Crazy.

Aye to the bolded parts. It's fucking creepy. I'd never heard of it before and really wish I hadn't. Count on Smunkee to deliver Tales from the Crazy.

It kinda happened to my mom in reverse, she spanked my sister and a neighbor called the police on her...

they asked my sister if she'd been hurt and she of course said no...and nothing happened...

still....

I see nothing wrong with this form of punishment as long as it's not permanent damage hot like someone else said. It hurts for a while and doesn't cause any scars physically or emotionally. I'm also not in objection to spanking to a certain degree. I liken my limits to these things to tapping a puppy on the nose. You will not permanently harm the puppy and it is effective. Of course there are others ways that are effective in disciplining a child and yes Smunk age is a factor here. What is appropriate for a child of one developmental stage is not for another.

Look at the bright side, if the child builds up some resistance, the parent can throw some in the child's eyes next. :tongue:

This speaks of a parent's lack of creativity and preparedness that the only means of punishment for foul language he or she can come up with is to use a condiment that has to be borrowed from a neighbor. They didn't even have their own hot sauce. :p

As she says, "I prefer my child receive a small amount of pain from my hand of love than to encounter a lot more pain in life."

...does this sound like some sort of severely fucked-up parental-BDSM fantasy to anyone else?

...does this sound like some sort of severely fucked-up parental-BDSM fantasy to anyone else?

*Raises hand*

...does this sound like some sort of severely fucked-up parental-BDSM fantasy to anyone else?

*Raises hand*

http://generalitemafia.ipbfree.com/uploads/ipbfree.com/generalitemafia/emo-popcorn.gif

Regardless of whether it's illegal or not......do you think it's abusive? What about washing mouths out with soap?

For a more accurate conclusion, I require your definition of abuse.

For a more accurate conclusion, I require your definition of abuse.

Something like this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abuse
Abuse refers to the use or treatment of something (a person, item, substance, concept, or vocabulary) that is harmful. It can be classed by the target of abuse or the type of abuse.

Something like this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abuse

That definition is insufficient. Every punishment administered causes some harm, whether physical pain, or emotional pain. Parents shouting at their children for instance can be considerably traumatic, sending children to their room in isolation can cause emotional pain. Given the context, I require a definition that allows for some types of punishment not to be abuse, whilst other types to fit into that definition.

Even acting on 24 warps the mind, caused Kiefer to try and take out a guy with his head.
True, true. That kid is going to grow up just like Keifer Sutherland. That alone should be enough to warrant an intervention.

"Hotsaucing" certainly can be abuse, any punishment can be; it depends on the extent of the punishment and for what reasons it is carried out. I do agree with the author of the Guardian article that there is a degree of calculation that makes it scarier, but I don't know if it is physically worse than spanking. It is kind of weird you're neighbor asked you to chip in, though.
Super-creepy. Can you imagine the scene in the house? Kid acts up. The parent is, like, "Oh, yeah? Well you just wait right here a minute," and runs over to the neighbors to borrow a cup of punishment instrument, as if it's the most normal thing in the world. Wtf?

Look at the bright side, if the child builds up some resistance, the parent can throw some in the child's eyes next. :tongue:

This speaks of a parent's lack of creativity and preparedness that the only means of punishment for foul language he or she can come up with is to use a condiment that has to be borrowed from a neighbor. They didn't even have their own hot sauce. :p
Shows a lack of commitment to discpline. Somehow I don't think the tongue spanking (gods, that sounds perverted) is going to be very effective. ;)

...does this sound like some sort of severely fucked-up parental-BDSM fantasy to anyone else?
Definitely. So many messages, so mixed...

Y'know, just now I realized that "spanking the tongue" might look like an euphemism for mast*gets shot*

Yah, that's pretty fucked up. Why can't people be normal? I think there is a far higher percentage of sadists in the population than we give credit or someshit.

tongue spanking (gods, that sounds perverted)

Doesn't it just? I mean, I freely admit that I'm kind of a freak, and "tongue spanking" still sounds gross to me. Admittedly, it's probably worse insofar as I immediately imagined it as spanking with the tongue instead of spanking of the tongue, but either one is messed-up. :p

Look at the bright side, if the child builds up some resistance, the parent can throw some in the child's eyes next. :tongue:

This speaks of a parent's lack of creativity and preparedness that the only means of punishment for foul language he or she can come up with is to use a condiment that has to be borrowed from a neighbor. They didn't even have their own hot sauce. :pWhich reminds me of Rosario Dawson's plans to lick her children as punishment. Seems creative and effective and sufficiently embarrassing if done in public. Much better than a little hot sauce.

I am curious now if Smunkee lives in a trailer park.

My nephew was one of only three of the family who would eat my hyper-hot chili. Had his parents tried Tabasco for punishment, he would have laughed and asked for more.

My nephew was one of only three of the family who would eat my hyper-hot chili. Had his parents tried Tabasco for punishment, he would have laughed and asked for more.

Wouldn't have worked for me either. I can eat Habanero's and do so for a parlor trick.

I am curious now if Smunkee lives in a trailer park.

Nah, she lives in a condo. She does, however, live in Oklahoma, which is kinda like a trailer park in state form. :p

Nah, she lives in a condo. She does, however, live in Oklahoma, which is kinda like a trailer park in state form. :p

OK exists so that Texans will have someone to make fun of.:tongue:

Just joking Smunkee:D

OK exists so that Texans will have someone to make fun of.:tongue:

Just joking Smunkee:DBut really he's not. Damn filler state... :p

Nah, she lives in a condo. She does, however, live in Oklahoma, which is kinda like a trailer park in state form. :p

You know there is mobile home condo's..... :D

But really he's not. Damn filler state... :p

No comments from someone living in the United States' penis.:tongue:

That sounds wrong. I would never do it to a child of mine, and I would certainly discourage another's doing it.

Tabasco sauce is for food, not for children. Unless of course you're eating children, in which case there larger problems looming on your mental horizon.

When I was a kid and my brothers or I mouthed off, we just got whupped for it. My father never needed anything more complicated than a belt.

[From the article] "In America over the past month there has been headline-making controversy over "hotsaucing" " I don't know how accurate this is, doesn't headline-making controversy require headlines? And controversy? Maybe everybody's distracted by the swine flu.

Ugh... no... that's an incredibly invasive form of punishment.

I am curious now if Smunkee lives in a trailer park.

Nah, I live in a really conservative area of a really conservative state.

For every fucked up thing that I post about here.......about 10K mundane things happen.

It's hard to get my barometer set because I'm surrounded by crazy people, so I come here to make sure I'm not completely wackadoo.

Also, last week my neighbor called the cops on me because she had a few hundred (or thousand) bubbles in her yard.......

The only time I ever used hot sauce as a disciplinary measure was for a dog I had who chewed things. I put a bit of the sauce on the things he liked chewing (mostly the wooden rail on the porch) as a deterrent. Turns out the dog loved the stuff and chewed even more.

As far as using it on kids - meh. If the only way you can "correct" your kids is to inflict some sort of pain, don't be hypocritical, go for the spanking.

A neighbor today came to my door asking for tabasco sauce to discipline her child. I wasn't really sure what was going on, so I said "no" and called the police because I couldn't imagine what she would be doing with it.

Apparently, she was going to "spank his tongue" for being "sassy" to her. The cop says it's not abuse.....I really think it is.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,3604,1308220,00.html

Regardless of whether it's illegal or not......do you think it's abusive? What about washing mouths out with soap?

Am I the only one who sees no correlation between having a sass mouth and getting hot sauce on your tongue?

This form of punishment will only work for so long, the kid is bound to build up a tolerant for the hot sauce sooner or later.

Spank his tongue? What a retard.

Regardless of whether it's illegal or not......do you think it's abusive? What about washing mouths out with soap?

No, I had much worse and I turned out fine.

In Virginia, hotsaucing is legally actionable and defined as "bizarre behaviour". The president of the Tabasco company, Paul McIlhenny, calls it "strange and scary" - an abuse both of children and of his product.The bolded bits. I don't strictly object to physical discipline - though IMHO, it's unnecessary in most cases, substitution with, ya'know, scolding should usually suffice -, but... Sauce? Lending? Weird.

Not necessarily - Indeed, I'd say it's kinda unlikely to be - abusive, but most certainly, and without exception, weird.

Also, 'Sassy' as grounds for physical discipline? Really? Err... Well, I suppose the term leaves room for interpretation, but still...

No, I had much worse and I turned out fine.Having looked at aother thread you've posted in...

No. No you didn't.

Besides, you should wait until your puberty is over before making such a judgement.

Having looked at aother thread you've posted in...

No. No you didn't.

Besides, you should wait until your puberty is over before making such a judgement.

How am I not fine?

I'm agin' it. For similar reasons that I'm against the use of music as torture or punishment, it lowers something that should be a pleasure, and turns it into a torment.
This not only causes problems for the person in question, but could cause problems for anyone who has to deal with them and their hot-sauce-phobia later in life. The last thing the world needs is more people who can't take their spiciness, there are far too many weak tongues in the world already.

How am I not fine?

You're incredibly stupid.

Think I might have said that I don't have any hot sauce but I have got a can of mace she could spray in the kids eyes if she thought that kind of abuse was a good idea. I imagine that somewhere a parent is busy waterboarding their children to find out who broke the window.

You're incredibly stupid.

Is there anything wrong with that?

I am often amazed at how many people who think corporal punishment is a good thing.

It's ridiculous.

I'm agin' it. For similar reasons that I'm against the use of music as torture or punishment, it lowers something that should be a pleasure, and turns it into a torment.


This thread hits so much of my biases (like being against corporeal punishment in the first place, disagreeing even with the root cause of the punishment, disagreeing with trying to bring -anybody- else outside of the parent and the child into the process) that I was actually quite surprised. So I'm just going to say I agree with this.

corporeal punishment

As opposed to ethereal punishment?

As opposed to ethereal punishment?

Mindfart. And now I can't EDIT MY MISTAKE because you've quoted it for all eternity. I hope you're pleased. BESIDES if you want to know my line of thinking, it was 'is it corporal or corporeal? corporeal means physical, and corporal is a rank in the army. hmmm.

Mindfart. And now I can't EDIT MY MISTAKE because you've quoted it for all eternity. I hope you're pleased. BESIDES if you want to know my line of thinking, it was 'is it corporal or corporeal? corporeal means physical, and corporal is a rank in the army. hmmm.My best guess would be that corporal comes from 'corpus' for body. Yaha! That was a pretty funny slip though. "And now, child, you will be visited by three ghosts tonight for not sharing your sweeties with your little sister".

Mindfart. And now I can't EDIT MY MISTAKE because you've quoted it for all eternity. I hope you're pleased. BESIDES if you want to know my line of thinking, it was 'is it corporal or corporeal? corporeal means physical, and corporal is a rank in the army. hmmm.

At least you managed to stop short of advocating 'capital punishment' for talking back to your mother. I've seen people do that in other threads.

I personally think that can be considered abuse. There are far more constructive and less painful ways to teach a child respect.

I personally think that can be considered abuse. There are far more constructive and less painful ways to teach a child respect.Very true. Austrians and Italians in particular seem to have a knack for it.

Very true. Austrians and Italians in particular seem to have a knack for it.

As a child I was only spanked once, and I had done something pretty horrid; other times I was made to do house chores, had privileges revoked, and sometimes I was simply lectured very sternly by my mother or father. As an adult I respect my parents very much.

I wouldn't class it as abuse but I also wouldn't say it was the most effective way to deal with something like this.

Nah, I live in a really conservative area of a really conservative state.

For every fucked up thing that I post about here.......about 10K mundane things happen.

It's hard to get my barometer set because I'm surrounded by crazy people, so I come here to make sure I'm not completely wackadoo.

Also, last week my neighbor called the cops on me because she had a few hundred (or thousand) bubbles in her yard.......
They're hotsaucing kids, but they call the cops for bubbles?

Leaving aside any questions of proportion, perspective, craziness -- that's just about the most surreal sentence I've ever typed. *tries to shield brain from OK waves*

And you're telling me that for everyone one of those^^ you post 10K mundane things happen? Well, damn, woman, your days must be busy.

Also, I've been thinking more about this whole "hotsaucing" business, and the cops' response that it's not abuse. Here's what I'm thinking:

1) The cop who said it's not abuse is a fan of hotsauce.

2) Hotsaucing little kids will only acclimate them to the pleasures of hotsauce, thus educating their palates and making gourmets of them who will understand how to enjoy the finer things in life.

Therefore, the cops are right. The parent is not punishing the kid at all. She's rewarding him for mouthing off. And she doesn't even know it. Stupid bitch.

A neighbor today came to my door asking for tabasco sauce to discipline her child. I wasn't really sure what was going on, so I said "no" and called the police because I couldn't imagine what she would be doing with it.

Apparently, she was going to "spank his tongue" for being "sassy" to her. The cop says it's not abuse.....I really think it is.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,3604,1308220,00.html

Regardless of whether it's illegal or not......do you think it's abusive? What about washing mouths out with soap?
its abusive.

Look, I'm just going to say this: Any punishment that is not an immediate and logical outgrowth of the offending action is abusive, regardless of whether it rises to the level of legally actionable abuse. It is an act of bullying by the parent against the child. It is arbitrary, capricious, and nothing but an elaborate staged showing of power over another person. It serves no purpose but to try to make the child feel bad about themselves, feel like weaker, lesser beings for daring to offend the sensibilities of the one who holds authority over them. It can have only one or both of two results -- to harm the child psychologically by making them timid and insecure, and probably growing up to become bullies over weaker people themselves; and/or to cause the child to lose all respect for the parent in every context, on the grounds that the parent is neither just nor reasonable but rather merely an ego-tripping bully with psychological issues of their own.

It is my view, and the view of my family, that correct punishments are those in which the loss to the child is part of a standard set of privileges that are understood to be conditional upon cooperation with the parental authority, which authority is exercised consistently. Going out with friends, watching tv, playing with toys, going on special outings, etc., were all clearly marked as privileges extended by the parents, at the discretion of the parents, and withholdable by the parents for offenses against the established rules of the family. If I got too far out of line, I would simply be denied tv privileges for one night, and I would be told what I had done to earn that punishment, for example. I only ever got spanked twice in my life, both when I was very little. Once was when I was actually in the act of being so mean to someone they were close to crying, and the other time, in disobeying my mother, I did something extremely dangerous (ran into traffic). In both cases, the "spanking" consisted of one (count 'em -- ONE) good smack on the behind, and had the same effect as slapping a hysterical person -- it got my attention but good. By the way, I also never did either of those things again.

Otherwise, to raise one's hand against a family member (that was the phrase, "raise your hand against" them) was the most forbidden thing in the family. Nobody ever hit anybody in my family. It was unthinkable and would have been unforgivable. Corporal punishment was strictly out.

As for these bizarre rituals of punishment, where the kid has to sit and wait for the acting out of some drama that is going to hurt him/her, those never even entered into anyone's imagination in my family. That shit is entirely too frat-house/secret club/what-kind-of-party-is-this for my folks.

I only ever got spanked twice in my life ... it got my attention but good.I think this is helped me realise into words what I believe smacking is useful for. As parenting tool I believe the smack is meant to 'shock'. It's not meant to cause pain and it's not meant as a punishment. Hence, the smack is useful to stop child that is about to do something very dangerous.

From a psychological viewpoint I figure that the smack will cause emotional shock as it's unexpected. Shock in this sense is useful as an interrupt to brain's current train of thought. Like maybe you're just walking along and suddenly you see something moving very fast towards you. This produces a level of shock that pulls you out of your current thought process and concentrates on the source.

Maybe I'm still not verbalising my idea very well. But definitely, smacking is a tool for grabbing attention, not a punishment.

A neighbor today came to my door asking for tabasco sauce to discipline her child. I wasn't really sure what was going on, so I said "no" and called the police because I couldn't imagine what she would be doing with it.

Apparently, she was going to "spank his tongue" for being "sassy" to her. The cop says it's not abuse.....I really think it is.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,3604,1308220,00.html

Regardless of whether it's illegal or not......do you think it's abusive? What about washing mouths out with soap?

I understand your area is conservative, but is it that routine to call the police on things like this? Did the cop go next door and question the parent? 'Cause you're not painting yourself terribly well with this story. There's a scale of concern, and the cops are one step below the National Guard.

That aside, I was a "mouth washed out with soap" kid until I pointed out to my parents that if they were going to be regular users of this language at, say, the dinner table or while bucking hay or splitting wood or talking with their friends with me in the back seat, they can't expect me to be able to separate when it's appropriate and when it's not at age seven (which was the age I was first detained by school authorities for repeating lines from a Richard Pryor routine my father played over the stereo in full hearing of all). Once my parents realized their hypocrisy (made all the clearer by my principal at the time recounting my answer to his "where did you hear this" question), the punishment stopped. That was the joy of living in a home where Dad was a libertine and Mom was a Victorian. Opposites might attracts, but it makes parenting...interesting.

Look, I'm just going to say this: Any punishment that is not an immediate and logical outgrowth of the offending action is abusive, regardless of whether it rises to the level of legally actionable abuse. It is an act of bullying by the parent against the child. It is arbitrary, capricious, and nothing but an elaborate staged showing of power over another person. It serves no purpose but to try to make the child feel bad about themselves, feel like weaker, lesser beings for daring to offend the sensibilities of the one who holds authority over them. It can have only one or both of two results -- to harm the child psychologically by making them timid and insecure, and probably growing up to become bullies over weaker people themselves; and/or to cause the child to lose all respect for the parent in every context, on the grounds that the parent is neither just nor reasonable but rather merely an ego-tripping bully with psychological issues of their own.

It is my view, and the view of my family, that correct punishments are those in which the loss to the child is part of a standard set of privileges that are understood to be conditional upon cooperation with the parental authority, which authority is exercised consistently. Going out with friends, watching tv, playing with toys, going on special outings, etc., were all clearly marked as privileges extended by the parents, at the discretion of the parents, and withholdable by the parents for offenses against the established rules of the family. If I got too far out of line, I would simply be denied tv privileges for one night, and I would be told what I had done to earn that punishment, for example. I only ever got spanked twice in my life, both when I was very little. Once was when I was actually in the act of being so mean to someone they were close to crying, and the other time, in disobeying my mother, I did something extremely dangerous (ran into traffic). In both cases, the "spanking" consisted of one (count 'em -- ONE) good smack on the behind, and had the same effect as slapping a hysterical person -- it got my attention but good. By the way, I also never did either of those things again.

Otherwise, to raise one's hand against a family member (that was the phrase, "raise your hand against" them) was the most forbidden thing in the family. Nobody ever hit anybody in my family. It was unthinkable and would have been unforgivable. Corporal punishment was strictly out.

Quite agreed, and well said.

As for these bizarre rituals of punishment, where the kid has to sit and wait for the acting out of some drama that is going to hurt him/her, those never even entered into anyone's imagination in my family. That shit is entirely too frat-house/secret club/what-kind-of-party-is-this for my folks.

Don't say that around frat-ferrets, or else they'll start seeing their silly rituals for what they really are: Delta Kappa Gay.

I don't think it's really abusive. It's not like tobasco sauce is harmful in a long term sort of way or even in a way that can potentially hospitalize a kid. I think it's less abusive than spanking... Although if I have kids and catch them swearing I'd probably just give them a talk about when is appropriate to use those words and when is not.

But then my mom used to put cayenne pepper on my sister's thumbs so she would stop sucking them. This wasn't really punishment, more of a way to break her of the habit (it was effective).

When I was a child, the single most effective form of discipline was for my parents to sit me down, explain that what I did was wrong, explain why it was wrong, and explain why I should not do it in the future.
It worked with one hundred percent effectiveness. Corporal punishment just taught me not to get caught.

You're incredibly stupid.

And we all know how telling people that makes them smarter, maybe even smart enough to talk to clever folk like Us ... cut it out, NNLDI, or I'll go buy some tabasco.

Your neighbor sounds like a crazy lunatic in that she asked you for tabasco sauce (Why didn't she buy her own bottle of it at the store?) Aside from that, I don't see any problem. It doesn't bother me so I'd hardly call it a punishment. So to each their own.

Does the age of the kid come into that? How is it not abusive? What about washing the mouth out with soap?
well, before, when the water used wasn't so piss poor, it really didn't do much harm. but nowdays? when a film is left behind... and you have those liquid soaps now...

"Hotsaucing" certainly can be abuse, any punishment can be; it depends on the extent of the punishment and for what reasons it is carried out. I do agree with the author of the Guardian article that there is a degree of calculation that makes it scarier, but I don't know if it is physically worse than spanking. It is kind of weird you're neighbor asked you to chip in, though.
^^ this


Y'know, just now I realized that "spanking the tongue" might look like an euphemism for mast*gets shot*

sounds more like ora *Gets shot at* NOT ME... ^HIM!!^

Nah, she lives in a condo. She does, however, live in Oklahoma, which is kinda like a trailer park in state form. :p... I thought she moved out of OK :confused:

Also, last week my neighbor called the cops on me because she had a few hundred (or thousand) bubbles in her yard.......
She probably thought they were witches! *Cookie for the reference!*

Does the age of the kid come into that? How is it not abusive? What about washing the mouth out with soap?
Soap is not for eating and could make a child ill, despite people doing it for donkey's years.

Tabasco is pretty mild, and is a condiment meant for eating. My mom very occasionally would put a tiny bit on her finger, make us stick out our tongue, and put that dab on the tip of the tongue when we'd been using profanity. Didn't hurt, but it reminded us not to use "hot words"... at least until we both got into eating it with our rice and beans.

You were right to refuse her if you didn't like her reason for wanting it. Calling the police was probably a bit of an overreaction.

sounds more like ora *Gets shot at* NOT ME... ^HIM!!^

Actually, you'd get shot, as you said the stupid thing this time, and I didn't say anyt*gets shot*

Actually, you'd get shot, as you said the stupid thing this time, and I didn't say anyt*gets shot*

This whole *Gets shot* thing has gone from being unfunny, to being embarrassing and actually derailing threads.

I agree, it pisses me off.

This whole *Gets shot* thing has gone from being unfunny, to being embarrassing and actually derailing threads.

I'm sure you think so.

This whole *Gets shot* thing has gone from being unfunny, to being embarrassing and actually derailing threads.


*shoots you* :p

I'm sure you think so.

Well obviously I do, that's why I said it. Was there any point in your post?

Well obviously I do, that's why I said it. Was there any point in your post?

http://generalitemafia.ipbfree.com/uploads/ipbfree.com/generalitemafia/emo-plusoneco5.png

Points are for squares, like pants...

Okay, okay, leave the weapons in the bin by the door and stagger back to the topic.

You were right to refuse her if you didn't like her reason for wanting it. Calling the police was probably a bit of an overreaction.

I dunno... I would rather be safe and make sure than assume otherwise and have something worse happen.

Okay, okay, leave the weapons in the bin by the door and stagger back to the topic.

But-bu-bubu-BuT!

http://www.thegreenhead.com/imgs/tabasco-grenade-topper-1.jpg

Bah! I was just getting started, :p

Parents should be allowed to do every punishment from waterboarding on down.

Parents should be allowed to do every punishment from waterboarding on down.

They perhaps should remember who is going to look after them when they are old. Do that kind of thing to me when I am a kid and you are going into the shittiest old people's home I can find while I spend your money.

They perhaps should remember who is going to look after them when they are old. Do that kind of thing to me when I am a kid and you are going into the shittiest old people's home I can find while I spend your money.

Why even bother with a home? I'm sure your town or city has a good homeless population that takes very good care of it's elders. *nods*

I think this is helped me realise into words what I believe smacking is useful for. As parenting tool I believe the smack is meant to 'shock'. It's not meant to cause pain and it's not meant as a punishment. Hence, the smack is useful to stop child that is about to do something very dangerous.

From a psychological viewpoint I figure that the smack will cause emotional shock as it's unexpected. Shock in this sense is useful as an interrupt to brain's current train of thought. Like maybe you're just walking along and suddenly you see something moving very fast towards you. This produces a level of shock that pulls you out of your current thought process and concentrates on the source.

Maybe I'm still not verbalising my idea very well. But definitely, smacking is a tool for grabbing attention, not a punishment.
But it only works if it is not overdone. Smack a kid every time he/she acts up, and it quickly becomes nothing but an annoyance that feeds either aggression or insecurity. It should only be used in immediate and drastic circumstances.

But-bu-bubu-BuT!

I thought is goes: "But-bu-bubu-WHAT?!"

They perhaps should remember who is going to look after them when they are old. Do that kind of thing to me when I am a kid and you are going into the shittiest old people's home I can find while I spend your money.
Another lesson in why it never pays to be a bastard. :tongue:

I thought is goes: "But-bu-bubu-WHAT?!"

Not the way I whimper, :p lol

But it only works if it is not overdone. Smack a kid every time he/she acts up, and it quickly becomes nothing but an annoyance that feeds either aggression or insecurity. It should only be used in immediate and drastic circumstances.Definitely, I thought forgot to add something. If something becomes regular then it's hardly going to shock -- like I didn't find it shocking that the sun rose this morning.

Do you have any kids yourself? I mean, do you speak from experience or have you just given this a fair amount of thought?

Definitely, I thought forgot to add something. If something becomes regular then it's hardly going to shock -- like I didn't find it shocking that the sun rose this morning.

Do you have any kids yourself? I mean, do you speak from experience or have you just given this a fair amount of thought?
No kids of my own. Just lots of thought and observation of both good and bad parenting around me. I've held a lot of jobs dealing with the public, and you see a lot of family dynamics being played out right in front of you. Especially when I worked at a museum. I saw some parenting that made me want to kidnap those kids for their own good.

Not the way I whimper, :p lol

Oh, I thought you were quoting South Park.

I saw some parenting that made me want to kidnap those kids for their own good.

:(

*Hugs*

Definitely, I thought forgot to add something. If something becomes regular then it's hardly going to shock -- like I didn't find it shocking that the sun rose this morning.



Well, I did find it shocking the first time I saw it rise without the need of me sacrificing a Goat...

It was pretty intense, I had to go out and kill a few cows to make up for it...

But, at least the Goats are happier for it, lol...

No kids of my own. Just lots of thought and observation of both good and bad parenting around me. I've held a lot of jobs dealing with the public, and you see a lot of family dynamics being played out right in front of you. Especially when I worked at a museum. I saw some parenting that made me want to kidnap those kids for their own good.Cool... well not about the poor kids you saw whilst working the museum. I've been told I'd make a good parent, but I've always suspected it's just because the person wants a child who isn't their own to spoil rotten.

Thread full of fail.

Punishing a child mildly for misbehaving is not child abuse. It's child abuse to let them run a muck and do what they want. Grounding and stern talks don't always work in correcting the behavior. Now on the flip side, beating the child is obviously not healthy either. There is an easy to reach medium. A quick swat on the behind, or a drop of hot sauce on the tongue will not traumatize the child, nor cause it to grow up to be a psychopath.

Thread full of fail.

Punishing a child mildly for misbehaving is not child abuse. It's child abuse to let them run a muck and do what they want. Grounding and stern talks don't always work in correcting the behavior. Now on the flip side, beating the child is obviously not healthy either. There is an easy to reach medium. A quick swat on the behind, or a drop of hot sauce on the tongue will not traumatize the child, nor cause it to grow up to be a psychopath.


It's interesting that often the unsaid inference is 'it's completely cool to be an absolute asshole to your child as long as you're not causing them to grow up with physical or mental trauma'. As if they're not people or something. Not saying you're necessarily saying that, Yenke, but your post certainly reminded me of that attitude.

Thread full of fail.

Punishing a child mildly for misbehaving is not child abuse. It's child abuse to let them run a muck and do what they want. Grounding and stern talks don't always work in correcting the behavior. Now on the flip side, beating the child is obviously not healthy either. There is an easy to reach medium. A quick swat on the behind, or a drop of hot sauce on the tongue will not traumatize the child, nor cause it to grow up to be a psychopath.

So burning a child's mouth with chili sauce for swearing is acceptable to you, what do you advocate for a kid caught looking at porn - throwing vinegar in their eyes? Maybe you could explain where the line is between acceptable adult inflicting pain on a child and unacceptable pain infliction? Is burning with an iron okay or not? How about using ice? Breaking fingers yes or no?

and probably leads to all kinds things a person will need relationship therapy for when they grow up -- like being a "24" fan.
My parents have never spanked my tongue, and I'm still a 24 fan.


Spanking is fun. I don't see why the tongue should miss on it.

My parents have never spanked my tongue, and I'm still a 24 fan.


Spanking is fun. I don't see why the tongue should miss on it.



It's all about the consent, V10 :)

It's interesting that often the unsaid inference is 'it's completely cool to be an absolute asshole to your child as long as you're not causing them to grow up with physical or mental trauma'. As if they're not people or something. Not saying you're necessarily saying that, Yenke, but your post certainly reminded me of that attitude.

I'm sorry. My posts sometimes do not convey my thoughts fully. Its easy to leave things out on the 'net. Here is how I would handle my child, which will tie into what I was saying earlier.

Child does something wrong

Step one- Tell them no, and why they shouldn't. If they continue to do it, go to step two.

Step two- Temporary isolated punishment, aka time out, grounding, etc. Note, this doesn't always solve the problem, because kids are ingenious in finding ways to entertain themselves, even if grounded. So when the inevitable happens, go to step three.

Step three- Mild corporal punishment, aka spanking, washing mouth out with soap. The punishment should not be done with malice, and only if the parent is able to control their anger. This is often the best punishment, IMO, because it attributes negativity with the wrong thing the kid does.


However, I think its acceptable to skip one and two IF the kid does something terrible enough. For example, if I had a 10 year old son that came up to me and said "You dirty son of a bitch", I would spank them or wash their mouth out with soap. They should know better by then.

Now, what I was conveying with my last post was that parents often times let their kids get away with crap, without ever punishing them. Its easy to send a kid to their room for not doing their homework, but what lesson does it teach the kid? The kid likely has toys, or something in there that they can play with when the parent isn't looking. I know this for a fact, because I see it with my younger sibling. Now, out of my 4 siblings, I have been the only one that has been spanked. MY parents went with the grounding/time out only approach with my sister and little brothers, and these kids run wild every where. I have been told by countless people that I was the most well behaved of the children growing up. I don't think it is a coincidence.

Like I said, it needs to be done in moderation. Punishing a child should never be done in anger, and never done in a manner that will be abusive towards the child. Make sense?

So burning a child's mouth with chili sauce for swearing is acceptable to you, what do you advocate for a kid caught looking at porn - throwing vinegar in their eyes?
Showing them some very high quality porn from my secret stash.

For years after that, they'll unconsciously shiver and close their eyes every time they see even a half-naked body on the screen.

I have been told by countless people that I was the most well behaved of the children growing up. I don't think it is a coincidence.


Decades of peer-reviewed studies suggest that it is. (http://www.apa.org/journals/releases/bul1284539.pdf) Summarizing the entire article would be difficult, and it itself could be described as a summary of the existing literature. I will summarize one of the findings, however. There is a positive correlation between the act of undergoing corporal punishment and violent, aggressive behaviors throughout the individual's lifespan.

Decades of peer-reviewed studies suggest that it is. (http://www.apa.org/journals/releases/bul1284539.pdf) Summarizing the entire article would be difficult, and it itself could be described as a summary of the existing literature. I will summarize one of the findings, however. There is a positive correlation between the act of undergoing corporal punishment and violent, aggressive behaviors throughout the individual's lifespan.

You think that peer-reviewed scientific studies are more valuable than a single case of self-reporting on the effects of corporal punishment? You crazy positivist, you.

She probably thought they were witches! *Cookie for the reference!*

It's from a Far Side cartoon where two men are on parallel desert islands and one of them is blowing bubbles. The other one says "Oooh, Oooh, are you a good witch or a bad witch?"

Decades of peer-reviewed studies suggest that it is. (http://www.apa.org/journals/releases/bul1284539.pdf) Summarizing the entire article would be difficult, and it itself could be described as a summary of the existing literature. I will summarize one of the findings, however. There is a positive correlation between the act of undergoing corporal punishment and violent, aggressive behaviors throughout the individual's lifespan.
Now I have an excuse to kill! :p

Now I have an excuse to kill! :p

You needed an excuse? Rookie.

I understand your area is conservative, but is it that routine to call the police on things like this? Did the cop go next door and question the parent? 'Cause you're not painting yourself terribly well with this story. There's a scale of concern, and the cops are one step below the National Guard.
Well, maybe I skipped a bit. She showed up at my door pretty angry, looking for hot sauce to "teach her kid a lesson", he's 3. I didn't know what she wanted it for but judging from her bulging eyes and me seeing her yank him up by the arm and hit him repeatedly before, I was pretty sure it was time to call the police again. I do the whole "mind your own business" thing when kids aren't being abused. I didn't find out until after the cop questioned her what she was planning to do with the hotsauce. I did find out that CPS took her kid away from her today because she slammed his hand in the door a few times at the gas station.

I did find out that CPS took her kid away from her today because she slammed his hand in the door a few times at the gas station.

No wonder the kid was swearing. :p

No wonder the kid was swearing. :p

Apparently she was cursing up a storm when they came to get him. Maybe he learned those words somewhere?

Apparently she was cursing up a storm when they came to get him. Maybe he learned those words somewhere?

Nah. :p

Apparently she was cursing up a storm when they came to get him. Maybe he learned those words somewhere?

I don't know what the fuck are you talking ab*Gets sprayed with Tabasco*

By the way. That has to be said, Smunk.

You're a fantastic mother, and a nice person overall. That means jack coming from mr. Random Guy Online, to be sure, but your neighbor wants you to lend her tabasco to give her kid, and you are feeding yours treats learned from Brazilians (Arroz Doce FTW :D). If I recall correctly, you have a pretty personal experience with child beating and so on - one which you never deserved, but one that made you, paradoxically, a much better parent. People abused in their childhood tend to repeat the pattern, and you not only beat the odds, you beat the crap out of the odds, then you killed the odds, then you hid their bod*gets shot*.

*Specially, recovers from the bullet in the same post*

Anyways. Congrats. And happy Mother's Day. You, of all people, deserve it.

Thread full of fail.

Punishing a child mildly for misbehaving is not child abuse. It's child abuse to let them run a muck and do what they want. Grounding and stern talks don't always work in correcting the behavior. Now on the flip side, beating the child is obviously not healthy either. There is an easy to reach medium. A quick swat on the behind, or a drop of hot sauce on the tongue will not traumatize the child, nor cause it to grow up to be a psychopath.

What's wrong with letting a child run a muck? I'm sure LG and other mud fans will gladly pay the entrance fee for a well-run muck. Why not let your kid have some entrepreneurial experience? Not every kid wants to run a lemonade stand, y'know. ;)

Long story short, "run amok".

Well, maybe I skipped a bit. She showed up at my door pretty angry, looking for hot sauce to "teach her kid a lesson", he's 3. I didn't know what she wanted it for but judging from her bulging eyes and me seeing her yank him up by the arm and hit him repeatedly before, I was pretty sure it was time to call the police again. I do the whole "mind your own business" thing when kids aren't being abused. I didn't find out until after the cop questioned her what she was planning to do with the hotsauce. I did find out that CPS took her kid away from her today because she slammed his hand in the door a few times at the gas station.

Oh.

Yeah, next time you might want to include that bit of very relevant back-story. I get it now.

What's wrong with letting a child run a muck? I'm sure LG and other mud fans will gladly pay the entrance fee for a well-run muck. Why not let your kid have some entrepreneurial experience? Not every kid wants to run a lemonade stand, y'know. ;)

Long story short, "run amok".

Little Goofball loves mud, but has to clean up again immediately afterward. He doesn't have his dad's tolerance for long-term dirtiness. He'll learn. :)

Well, maybe I skipped a bit. She showed up at my door pretty angry, looking for hot sauce to "teach her kid a lesson", he's 3. I didn't know what she wanted it for but judging from her bulging eyes and me seeing her yank him up by the arm and hit him repeatedly before, I was pretty sure it was time to call the police again. I do the whole "mind your own business" thing when kids aren't being abused. I didn't find out until after the cop questioned her what she was planning to do with the hotsauce. I did find out that CPS took her kid away from her today because she slammed his hand in the door a few times at the gas station.
im thinking that she wasnt intending on tipping the bottle to get a slight bit on her finger that she would then lightly touch onto her child's tongue. its good for her to know that she is being watched at least some of the time.

Well, maybe I skipped a bit. She showed up at my door pretty angry, looking for hot sauce to "teach her kid a lesson", he's 3. I didn't know what she wanted it for but judging from her bulging eyes and me seeing her yank him up by the arm and hit him repeatedly before, I was pretty sure it was time to call the police again. I do the whole "mind your own business" thing when kids aren't being abused. I didn't find out until after the cop questioned her what she was planning to do with the hotsauce. I did find out that CPS took her kid away from her today because she slammed his hand in the door a few times at the gas station.
Holy shit.

Three years old? How "sassy" could a three-year-old possibly get? Yeah, with that level of violence, I have a feeling there would have been more than a drop of hotsauce involved and not just on the tongue. What a bitch.

What's wrong with letting a child run a muck? I'm sure LG and other mud fans will gladly pay the entrance fee for a well-run muck. Why not let your kid have some entrepreneurial experience? Not every kid wants to run a lemonade stand, y'know. ;)

Long story short, "run amok".

Thank you.

Yeah, next time you might want to include that bit of very relevant back-story. I get it now.
Verily. That is a horse of a different color.

When I got the dab of sauce I was a hell of a lot older than three, and I can count the number of times I was hit as a kid on one hand.

Thread full of fail.

Punishing a child mildly for misbehaving is not child abuse. It's child abuse to let them run a muck and do what they want. Grounding and stern talks don't always work in correcting the behavior. Now on the flip side, beating the child is obviously not healthy either. There is an easy to reach medium. A quick swat on the behind, or a drop of hot sauce on the tongue will not traumatize the child, nor cause it to grow up to be a psychopath.

Hmmmmmmmmm?

I suspect you don't have children and probably not even married......

Also, last week my neighbor called the cops on me because she had a few hundred (or thousand) bubbles in her yard.......

What? Please explain?


Last time I was "hot sauced" was a couple weeks ago during a house party where a mate of mine gave me a shot glass half full of the stuff and asked me to try this drink.

Needless to say after I shot it and burned out my mouth it resulted in me eating someone else's McFlurry and punishing the person in question. Maybe the mother should watch out she might be punished by her son.

Decades of peer-reviewed studies suggest that it is. (http://www.apa.org/journals/releases/bul1284539.pdf) Summarizing the entire article would be difficult, and it itself could be described as a summary of the existing literature. I will summarize one of the findings, however. There is a positive correlation between the act of undergoing corporal punishment and violent, aggressive behaviors throughout the individual's lifespan.

Since spanking is a hot topic, I could find equally as many reliable sources that say it is okay. Even the APA suggested at one point that infrequent spankings was OKAY.

Since spanking is a hot topic, I could find equally as many reliable sources that say it is okay. Even the APA suggested at one point that infrequent spankings was OKAY.

Then find them. If you can, then you should be able to do so.

Since spanking is a hot topic, I could find equally as many reliable sources that say it is okay. Even the APA suggested at one point that infrequent spankings was OKAY.
moderate spanking -- open hand to the butt--is OK, as in "wont do your child irreparable harm".

its not a GOOD technique for child raising and has a significant chance of evolving into a very bad technique (for example when you have to escalate the severity to get the same results).

Then find them. If you can, then you should be able to do so.


http://www.time.com/time/connections/article/0,9171,1191825,00.html
Neither the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) nor the American Psychological Association (APA) has come out fully against the practice. In 1998 the former issued a statement that said, in part, "Spanking is only effective when used in selective, infrequent situations." An APA statement permits similar wiggle room: "There is difference of opinion within the psychology community about spanking. But there is general concern that if and when spanking might lead to more severe forms of corporal punishment, parents should avoid [it]."

Like I said, it is very hotly debated, with no clear answer, as can be seen here:
http://www.opposingviews.com/questions/is-spanking-an-acceptable-form-of-discipline

Journal of Developmental & Behavioral Pediatrics, Vol 29(4), Aug 2008. pp. 334-335.

Just to name a few. All of the sources that say spanking is okay, agree with what I believe, and that it is okay in moderation.

The only time I ever used hot sauce as a disciplinary measure was for a dog I had who chewed things. I put a bit of the sauce on the things he liked chewing (mostly the wooden rail on the porch) as a deterrent. Turns out the dog loved the stuff and chewed even more.

Same story with my rabbit. First I was nice and used mustard - no effect. Then hot sauce - the rabbit loved it. Almost a shame I'm a vegetarian, cause I'm sure he must have become quite tasty...

I'm agin' it. For similar reasons that I'm against the use of music as torture or punishment, it lowers something that should be a pleasure, and turns it into a torment.

I say the same is true about spanking. *grin*

Hmmm actually "spanking the tongue" is a quite good way to describe spicy foods... Yum!

Making things that should not be put in mouths taste bad is good parenting. Creating a link in their minds between the object and bad taste and all that. I stopped eating boogers after that one time I had put my finger in my ear before nosepicking...

Now foul language is not something kids put into their mouths (not literally, anyway), but something they put into their minds. Perhaps it is a good idea to scream the same bad word in their ear right after they say it. That'll teach em. It might cause some weird responses from the neighbors, though.

Corporal punishment, if used at all, should be immediate. Otherwise it's just torture, no matter how mild it is. Even if you have your own hot sauce, it takes some time to fetch it.

A neighbor today came to my door asking for tabasco sauce to discipline her child. I wasn't really sure what was going on, so I said "no" and called the police because I couldn't imagine what she would be doing with it.

Apparently, she was going to "spank his tongue" for being "sassy" to her. The cop says it's not abuse.....I really think it is.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,3604,1308220,00.html

Regardless of whether it's illegal or not......do you think it's abusive? What about washing mouths out with soap?

So then what would be the proper path to punish the child? Would you rather she actually spank the child? Maybe backhand him?

It's hot sauce, that's pretty far from abuse and I think making the child uncomfortable is better than striking the kid.

So then what would be the proper path to punish the child? Would you rather she actually spank the child? Maybe backhand him?

It's hot sauce, that's pretty far from abuse and I think making the child uncomfortable is better than striking the kid.
Well, you also have to take into account "how much" she's likely to use... a dab on the tongue wouldn't be more than uncomfortable. Making a kid drink a spoonful or more would be lunatic.

So then what would be the proper path to punish the child? Would you rather she actually spank the child? Maybe backhand him?

It's hot sauce, that's pretty far from abuse and I think making the child uncomfortable is better than striking the kid.
he's 3 years old.

first, she stops swearing in front of him

second, she corrects him whenever he does--verbally.

after a while he wont do it any more.

http://www.time.com/time/connections/article/0,9171,1191825,00.html


Like I said, it is very hotly debated, with no clear answer, as can be seen here:
http://www.opposingviews.com/questions/is-spanking-an-acceptable-form-of-discipline

Journal of Developmental & Behavioral Pediatrics, Vol 29(4), Aug 2008. pp. 334-335.

Just to name a few. All of the sources that say spanking is okay, agree with what I believe, and that it is okay in moderation.

"Neither...has come out fully against the practice" - is that really your idea of a ringing endorsement for hitting children?

Since spanking is a hot topic, I could find equally as many reliable sources that say it is okay. Even the APA suggested at one point that infrequent spankings was OKAY.

Well, "at one point" is pretty vague. At one point, didn't the APA consider homosexuality a mental disorder?

he's 3 years old.

first, she stops swearing in front of him

second, she corrects him whenever he does--verbally.

after a while he wont do it any more.

The unspoken reality finally shows up -- thank you. It's a savage bit of irony, and one that's lost on that mother.

he's 3 years old.

first, she stops swearing in front of him

second, she corrects him whenever he does--verbally.

after a while he wont do it any more.

:)

Somebody who was a parent.

I can say this does work.

The first part was hardest for me. ;)

I think corporal punishment is counter-productive, as people on this thread have already mentioned. If you really want a kid to reflect on what he/she did was wrong, give them a cold dish of disappointment. IMO, guilt is more worse than the screaming and the thrashing.

I think any of that crazy punishment with props thing is, if nothing else, so uncool and immature that it should be severely discouraged on the grounds that it sends very bad messages, makes the parent look ridiculous, and probably leads to all kinds things a person will need relationship therapy for when they grow up -- like being a "24" fan.

Also, what if her kid likes Tabasco sauce? I can put that stuff right on my tongue without wincing.

Finally, if the cops don't think Tabasco is an instrument of abuse, advise them to try pouring it down a drain and rinsing said drain with very hot water. It will remind them vividly of their tear-gas training. I speak from experience. My house had to be evacuated. And I like the stuff.

Children have much better, and more sensitive, senses of taste than adults. Remember your parents telling you that the store brand tastes exactly like the real brand? It would be a really weird kid that likes Tabasco Sauce.

Of course, this is the way to create a really weird adult who becomes sexually aroused by Tabasco.

I see nothing wrong with this form of punishment as long as it's not permanent damage hot like someone else said. It hurts for a while and doesn't cause any scars physically or emotionally. I'm also not in objection to spanking to a certain degree. I liken my limits to these things to tapping a puppy on the nose. You will not permanently harm the puppy and it is effective. Of course there are others ways that are effective in disciplining a child and yes Smunk age is a factor here. What is appropriate for a child of one developmental stage is not for another.

^This.

:)

Somebody who was a parent.

I can say this does work.

The first part was hardest for me. ;)
oh it became easy for me as soon as my 2 year old called my dad a son-of-a-bitch.

Btw, I was looking through the article...

Many playcentres, kindergartens and junior schools specifically ban it, along with the dunce's cap, standing in the corner, kneeling on gravel, washing the mouth with soap, the coal hole, and all forms of chastisement. In Virginia, hotsaucing is legally actionable and defined as "bizarre behaviour". The president of the Tabasco company, Paul McIlhenny, calls it "strange and scary" - an abuse both of children and of his product. (4th paragraph from the top)

I have to ask, Wtf is the coal hole? I googled it, and all I get are references to street manholes...

Btw, I was looking through the article...



I have to ask, Wtf is the coal hole? I googled it, and all I get are references to street manholes...
That's it. I am never leaving New England. And even this place is scary. I'm a-scared of Americans. I want to go back to NYC!!! :eek2:

Btw, I was looking through the article...



I have to ask, Wtf is the coal hole? I googled it, and all I get are references to street manholes...
ive never heard the term but i assume its being locked in a dark space like the coat closet or somewhere in the cellar.

ive never heard the term but i assume its being locked in a dark space like the coat closet or somewhere in the cellar.

Indeed. Coal was a method of heating. A house would have a hole next to it with a cover where the coal man would toss a bag(s) for the house or building. Usually the heating would be in the cellar.

I didn't read the article but they could very well mean pulling the cover and tossing the kid in. But it probably means the cellar.....

I have heard of this and washing kids' mouths out with soap, and all I can say is that, had my parents ever tried either of those on me, I would have promptly vomited on them. I bet that would have changed their minds about proper punishments pretty quickly.

I've taught kids aged 5 to 13 for two years now, and I've never had a problem curbing their language. I think more parents should work at getting their kids to respect them and their rules, rather than fear the consequences.

I think corporal punishment is counter-productive, as people on this thread have already mentioned. If you really want a kid to reflect on what he/she did was wrong, give them a cold dish of disappointment. IMO, guilt is more worse than the screaming and the thrashing.

Absolutely. The very worst thing my mom could say when I did something bad was "I'm not mad, I'm just disappointed." Oww. Of course, for that to be effective, you have to actually do a fair bit of parenting first so that your child trusts, looks up to and respects you. Many parents don't want to take that much time.

In the Dickens novel Silas Marner the weaver Silas is bringing up a foundling called Eppie. He has her tied round the waist with a linen band to keep her safe while he is weaving. She gets loose, toddles outside and runs with scissors!!! and he is worried she will hurt herself. A kind neighbour advises him that he will have to teach her not to do naughty things: either smack her, or put her in the coal-hole (a cupboard). He can't bear to smack her, so he tries the coal-hole, but lets her out the minute she calls "Opy!" and cleans the coaldust off her.

In half an hour she was clean again, and Silas having turned his back to see what he could do with the linen band, threw it down again, with the reflection that Eppie would be good without fastening for the rest of the morning. He turned round again, and was going to place her in her little chair near the loom, when she peeped out at him with black face and hands again, and said, "Eppie in de toal-hole!"

This total failure of the coal-hole discipline shook Silas's belief in the efficacy of punishment. "She'd take it all for fun," he observed to Dolly, "if I didn't hurt her, and that I can't do, Mrs. Winthrop. If she makes me a bit o' trouble, I can bear it. And she's got no tricks but what she'll grow out of."

Since Dickens was pretty much the YouTube of the day, "coal-hole" slipped into popular currency. (Oh, and Silas opts for the "disappointed" treatment, and Eppie becomes a perfect Dickens heroine.)

Dickens

Psst.....*cough*Eliot*cough*

Psst.....*cough*Eliot*cough*

Shoot you beat me too it. :D

Psst.....*cough*Eliot*cough*

I thought it sounded remarkably tender and uplifting for Dickens.

I thought it sounded remarkably tender and uplifting for Dickens.

Hehe, yeah, Dickens would have been all "and then Eppie got smallpox, Silas had a stroke and died, and some random character with a funny name spontaneously combusted! Whee!"

*shoots self in foot*

Oh, I was distracted by the pain of my recent injury, of course I meant Eliot ... :D

*gets shot* (by self. in foot)

>.>

<.<

What? Shooting loves compan*gets shot*

A neighbor today came to my door asking for tabasco sauce to discipline her child. I wasn't really sure what was going on, so I said "no" and called the police because I couldn't imagine what she would be doing with it.

Apparently, she was going to "spank his tongue" for being "sassy" to her. The cop says it's not abuse.....I really think it is.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,3604,1308220,00.html

Regardless of whether it's illegal or not......do you think it's abusive? What about washing mouths out with soap?

Naaa I think it is fine. When brining up children, often a lil bit of headolgy is needed.

I remeber when I was a kid, if one of my many siblings done something wrong, Dad would line us all up, put a knife over the flame on the hob, and once it was glowing red would give us the speach which went a little like this:

Okay boys, I know one of you did it, and I'm going to find out who. You see this knife? I'm going to ask you if you did it and then put tthis knife on your tounge, don't worry if you are telling the truth it will not burn.

Now of course we where all children and when the dad informs you of something your initial reaction is to belive it.

This always worked on us as the cuplrite would be the one struggling not to stick out his tounge. Needless to say, the knife never once touched our tounges.

Is this crule? Maybe, is it harmful or abusive?

Naaa I think it is fine. When brining up children, often a lil bit of headolgy is needed.

I remeber when I was a kid, if one of my many siblings done something wrong, Dad would line us all up, put a knife over the flame on the hob, and once it was glowing red would give us the speach which went a little like this:

Okay boys, I know one of you did it, and I'm going to find out who. You see this knife? I'm going to ask you if you did it and then put tthis knife on your tounge, don't worry if you are telling the truth it will not burn.

Now of course we where all children and when the dad informs you of something your initial reaction is to belive it.

This always worked on us as the cuplrite would be the one struggling not to stick out his tounge. Needless to say, the knife never once touched our tounges.

Is this crule? Maybe, is it harmful or abusive?

This explains a lot.

This explains a lot.

Umm such as?

http://www.time.com/time/connections/article/0,9171,1191825,00.html
All that says is that they have not come out fully against it.

Like I said, it is very hotly debated, with no clear answer, as can be seen here:
http://www.opposingviews.com/questions/is-spanking-an-acceptable-form-of-discipline
An anonymous expert who uses the Bible as justification is hardly a reliable source.

Journal of Developmental & Behavioral Pediatrics, Vol 29(4), Aug 2008. pp. 334-335.
That, as near as I can find, is a letter. Not having the text of it, I cannot say if it takes the position you ascribe to it or not.

Just to name a few. All of the sources that say spanking is okay, agree with what I believe, and that it is okay in moderation.
You found, at best, one reliable source.

Umm such as?

I imagine I might think burning a kids mouth with chili sauce was okay if I was used to having red hot knives waved in my face.

I imagine I might think burning a kids mouth with chili sauce was okay if I was used to having red hot knives waved in my face.

Ahhhhh I see. Yeah two things, tabasco sauce is not the hottest of chilie sources out there, no harm will come from dabbing a little of it on the tounge.

Two man I never got used to it!:D

It's the age old concern of perants, how far do I protect them? I'm of the mindset that children learn and better develop if left to find out some things for themselves.

Constant repition of 'don't climb that tree' works far less effectivly than the kid falling out of the tree and getting some cuts and brusies.

Cheek your mum, get some foul stuff in your mouth. No I just can't see the problem there, what it is?

Ahhhhh I see. Yeah two things, tabasco sauce is not the hottest of chilie sources out there, no harm will come from dabbing a little of it on the tounge.

Two man I never got used to it!:D

It's the age old concern of perants, how far do I protect them? I'm of the mindset that children learn and better develop if left to find out some things for themselves.

Constant repition of 'don't climb that tree' works far less effectivly than the kid falling out of the tree and getting some cuts and brusies.

Cheek your mum, get some foul stuff in your mouth. No I just can't see the problem there, what it is?


I am not a parent so I could be totally wrong but it seems to me that the parents slapping their kids silly in Asda are not doing it out of protectiveness they are just doing it to stop the kids being inconvenient to them. Yes those kids are grabbing what they want off the shelves and being a pain - but that is because they have poor impulse control, so what do the parents do? Yup they provide a really bad example by showing no impulse control themselves and lashing out at the kids.

Example is what kids learn from - if you don't want your kids to swear then don't swear at them or in front of them yourself. If you don't want one kid hitting its sibling, don't show that it is okay to hit people sometimes by hitting them.

Yes children are going to do bad things, some of the time it is going to be because they don't actually know that what they are doing is bad - so explain it to them. I get by at work without hitting the people who work for me or making them eat chili sauce - I do it by talking to them, and I don't really see why it should be any different with children.

I am not a parent so I could be totally wrong but it seems to me that the parents slapping their kids silly in Asda are not doing it out of protectiveness they are just doing it to stop the kids being inconvenient to them. Yes those kids are grabbing what they want off the shelves and being a pain - but that is because they have poor impulse control, so what do the parents do? Yup they provide a really bad example by showing no impulse control themselves and lashing out at the kids.

Example is what kids learn from - if you don't want your kids to swear then don't swear at them or in front of them yourself. If you don't want one kid hitting its sibling, don't show that it is okay to hit people sometimes by hitting them.

Yes children are going to do bad things, some of the time it is going to be because they don't actually know that what they are doing is bad - so explain it to them. I get by at work without hitting the people who work for me or making them eat chili sauce - I do it by talking to them, and I don't really see why it should be any different with children.

Yes you are right, kids do learn behaviour from their perants and others. But smaking as a punishment, and even a dab of tabascco, well Ijust can't see the harm there.

Provided that a non-toxic substance is used, I don't think it's abuse to wash a kid's mouth with soap. I think it's lousy parenting just not abuse.

Hot sauce can be iffy; normal grocery store stuff is probably fine, but I've tried some hot sauces that left my mouth throbbing with pain. Folks have to remember that children's taste buds are often more sensitive than adults', too, and what makes an adult's mouth sting a bit may be extremely painful to a child.

It's from a Far Side cartoon where two men are on parallel desert islands and one of them is blowing bubbles. The other one says "Oooh, Oooh, are you a good witch or a bad witch?" and that is referencing the same thing I am... you get a cookie... crumb! ;)

Well, maybe I skipped a bit. She showed up at my door pretty angry, looking for hot sauce to "teach her kid a lesson", he's 3. I didn't know what she wanted it for but judging from her bulging eyes and me seeing her yank him up by the arm and hit him repeatedly before, I was pretty sure it was time to call the police again. I do the whole "mind your own business" thing when kids aren't being abused. I didn't find out until after the cop questioned her what she was planning to do with the hotsauce. I did find out that CPS took her kid away from her today because she slammed his hand in the door a few times at the gas station.

She slammed... a few times? and she wasn't arrested?!?! :eek2:

Apparently she was cursing up a storm when they came to get him. Maybe he learned those words somewhere?

Probably from TV. :p

Little Goofball loves mud, but has to clean up again immediately afterward. He doesn't have his dad's tolerance for long-term dirtiness. He'll learn. :)
or his ability to avoid the Wrath of Mom!

I don't think tabasco is an abusive punishment per se, but it depends on how it is administered and the relevance of the tabasco with the offense.

That is to say, simply splashing hot sauce on your kid's tongue for uttering bad words isn't really all that effective in my opinion. What does hot sauce have to do with dirty language? There's no connection. Having to munch on soap is a far better punishment for inappropriate language, as a child already knows soap is for cleaning things, and in this case, cleaning up foul language. Alternatively, if you beat the child with a bar of soap, the punishment would also lose its effectiveness for the same reason. The impliment, the association and the offense all have to be connected to make it an effective punishment, in other words.

That said, I have been punished creatively. My mouth has been washed out with soap for saying "fuck" and "bitch" at young ages. My fingers nails were covered in tabasco to prevent me from sucking on them. I was also spanked with a leather belt on my bare ass, and still can't say that the punishment wasn't entirely deserved. *shrug* Punishment has to fit the crime, is all, and it has to fit the child's disposition, as well.

I don't think tabasco is an abusive punishment per se, but it depends on how it is administered and the relevance of the tabasco with the offense.

That is to say, simply splashing hot sauce on your kid's tongue for uttering bad words isn't really all that effective in my opinion. What does hot sauce have to do with dirty language? There's no connection. Having to munch on soap is a far better punishment for inappropriate language, as a child already knows soap is for cleaning things, and in this case, cleaning up foul language. Alternatively, if you beat the child with a bar of soap, the punishment would also lose its effectiveness for the same reason. The impliment, the association and the offense all have to be connected to make it an effective punishment, in other words.

That said, I have been punished creatively. My mouth has been washed out with soap for saying "fuck" and "bitch" at young ages. My fingers nails were covered in tabasco to prevent me from sucking on them. I was also spanked with a leather belt on my bare ass, and still can't say that the punishment wasn't entirely deserved. *shrug* Punishment has to fit the crime, is all, and it has to fit the child's disposition, as well.
any "spanking" that is not "open hand on buttocks" is abusive. it may not be terrible abuse but its still abuse.

and since, as bottle mentioned, children have more sensitive tongues, it is open to being very abusive since you cannot tell how much pain you have inflicted.

That's it. I am never leaving New England. And even this place is scary. I'm a-scared of Americans. I want to go back to NYC!!! :eek2:

Want... To...Go... Back... To New York? Does not compute.:p

any "spanking" that is not "open hand on buttocks" is abusive. it may not be terrible abuse but its still abuse.

and since, as bottle mentioned, children have more sensitive tongues, it is open to being very abusive since you cannot tell how much pain you have inflicted.

Well, there are people and places that would argue that any sort of spanking is abusive.

I'm not advocating child abuse at all, the last bit was just as reference to my own background. Looking back at being whipped by the belt now (and, in fairness it was only that one time) I can say, "Yeah, I totally deserved it that one time." Would I repeat it on my own children, if I came to have any? Probably not.

As far as Tabasco on the tongue, as abuse seems to be somewhat subjective, I couldn't give an opinion on that, simply that it seems like a very ineffective means of punishment, and to me appears more like bullying a child into a certain behavior, simply because the punishment has no relevance to the offense. If this was the punishment just for a bit of sass back, it doesn't make much sense. I'd suggest that making the child sit down and write out "I should not say '___' " a couple hundred times would probably be more appropriate. Burning a child's tongue for beeing cheeky seems kind of extreme, and I suppose in that regard would be considered abusive. Again, though, that assumes that the child is in pain, which is dependant on the child.

In any case, I agree that it's better to error on the side of caution and simply not splash your kid with hot sauce XP (one has to wonder where she got that idea to begin with, anyway, especially not even having any hot sauce on hand!)

Well, there are people and places that would argue that any sort of spanking is abusive.

I'm not advocating child abuse at all, the last bit was just as reference to my own background. Looking back at being whipped by the belt now (and, in fairness it was only that one time) I can say, "Yeah, I totally deserved it that one time." Would I repeat it on my own children, if I came to have any? Probably not.

As far as Tabasco on the tongue, as abuse seems to be somewhat subjective, I couldn't give an opinion on that, simply that it seems like a very ineffective means of punishment, and to me appears more like bullying a child into a certain behavior, simply because the punishment has no relevance to the offense. If this was the punishment just for a bit of sass back, it doesn't make much sense. I'd suggest that making the child sit down and write out "I should not say '___' " a couple hundred times would probably be more appropriate. Burning a child's tongue for beeing cheeky seems kind of extreme, and I suppose in that regard would be considered abusive. Again, though, that assumes that the child is in pain, which is dependant on the child.

In any case, I agree that it's better to error on the side of caution and simply not splash your kid with hot sauce XP (one has to wonder where she got that idea to begin with, anyway, especially not even having any hot sauce on hand!)
i do agree with you.

there is no sense in meting out dangerous punishments that have limited effectiveness.

its not so much that any form of (mild) corporal punishment is going to scar a child for life as that it doesnt teach the proper lesson and has a chance of getting out of hand.

parents want to control their children instead of teaching them to control themselves. we do not raise children; we raise adults. in the end we should use parenting techniques that foster good adults. being afraid of physical punishment, being afraid of authority, being willing to behave well only under the threat of punishment does not a good adult make.

That's it. I am never leaving New England. And even this place is scary. I'm a-scared of Americans. I want to go back to NYC!!! :eek2:
Come back! Once you've lived here you're NEVER truly NOT a NYer!

parents want to control their children instead of teaching them to control themselves. we do not raise children; we raise adults. in the end we should use parenting techniques that foster good adults. being afraid of physical punishment, being afraid of authority, being willing to behave well only under the threat of punishment does not a good adult make.
Complete and profound truth.^^

Come back! Once you've lived here you're NEVER truly NOT a NYer!
Also truth.^^ I'd never even dream of trying to be anything but a New Yorker. Hell, what else is worth being? I spent the first 31 years of my life in that city, and as long as I'm away from it, I'll be an out of town New Yorker. :D

In any case, I agree that it's better to error on the side of caution and simply not splash your kid with hot sauce XP (one has to wonder where she got that idea to begin with, anyway, especially not even having any hot sauce on hand!)
Probably has no tolerance for it herself. Which is why she thinks of it as a possible punishment.

I had a roomie once who thought that ketchup was spicy...

(one has to wonder where she got that idea to begin with, anyway, especially not even having any hot sauce on hand!)
Probably a variant of the method to stop kids from biting their nails.

What happened to soap? Or just spanking the child? Or another form of punishment?

Probably a variant of the method to stop kids from biting their nails.
Actually, I think that method is an even worse use for hotsauce than putting it on the tongue, because the peppers of hotsauces are are lot more damaging to surface tissues than to the very resilient lining of the mouth. You get some tabasco or cayenne, etc, in your eye -- as when you forget and rub your eye with your pepper-coated finger -- and you are going to be in severe pain. Depending on how hot the pepper is, you might even burn your eye.

What happened to soap? Or just spanking the child? Or another form of punishment?
Too many kids were stricken blind.

That's it. I am never leaving New England. And even this place is scary. I'm a-scared of Americans. I want to go back to NYC!!! :eek2:

Something I said...?

Something I said...?
It was just that short list from the catalogue of "bizarre behavior" and "strange and scary" things Americans seem to think it's perfectly okay to do to small children... *shudder*. I want to go back and hide in the asphalt jungle where the Americans will never find me beause they think we're the weird ones who don't value life and they should never to the evil big city.

I'm not saying kids don't have it rough in NYC. I'm just saying, New Yorkers typically don't pretend their behavior is not bizarre when it fucking well is.

Actually, there really is a difference. I used to think I lived in the USA, until I moved from NYC to the USA, and realized they are two completely different countries.

To me, physical discipline is not at all effective and is the same as assault. If a grown man did this to his (non-consenting) wife as a punishment for using foul language, or spanked his (again, non-consenting) wife, we would see this as abuse and domestic violence. He would spend a lot of time in jail. Why do we suddenly see this response as okay when it is directed at those whom society should be most desirous of protecting?

Y'know, just now I realized that "spanking the tongue" might look like an euphemism for mast*gets shot*
I think it sounds more like an euphemism for cunnilingus.

I think it sounds more like an euphemism for cunnilingus.

Colonel Angus?

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_S1bdNBvOURk/RtyRVgc66-I/AAAAAAAAEeo/feOFG1aJL30/s320/angus.jpeg

Colonel Angus?

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_S1bdNBvOURk/RtyRVgc66-I/AAAAAAAAEeo/feOFG1aJL30/s320/angus.jpeg
I remember that skit. The tip of the iceberg of bad SNL.