NationStates Jolt Archive


Orthodox Jews follow Catholic lead

Sarkhaan
05-05-2009, 20:31
It looks as if a sexual abuse scandal similar to that in the Catholic church may be brewing amongst Orthodox Jewish communities, according to reports from ABC News.

When Joel Engelman was 8 years old, he says, he was called from his Hebrew class to the principal's office at his Brooklyn yeshiva, a Jewish religious school. His parents had recently told Rabbi Avrohom Reichman that their son had been abused by an older boy at the school, he says.

But he says the rabbi was not offering to help that day.

When Engelman arrived at the principal's office, he says, Reichman told him to close the door. He told the boy to sit on his lap and began swiveling his chair back and forth, Engelman says. Reichman then touched him, moving from his shoulders down, Engelman claims.

"They kept telling me, 'Don't go to the police, don't do anything. We've dealt with this before,'" with other teachers, he said. "It really shocked me."

The Brooklyn district attorney's office, which last month announced a hotline for alleged Orthodox sex abuse victims, says it has 19 active cases of alleged sex abuse in the borough's Orthodox Jewish community. And advocates say the problem extends beyond Brooklyn.

"If you're a pedophile, just go to one of the orthodox communities. You're probably safest there," said New York State Assemblyman Dov Hikind, himself an Orthodox Jew. "It's sad for me to say that, but it's true."

ABC News has spoken to Orthodox Jews who claim they were victims of abusers in New York, Baltimore and Illinois, who shared stories of alleged molestation followed by what they described as hostility from community leaders when they sought help.

Hikind says another of Reichman's students, who has not come forward publicly, claims he was abused by the rabbi as a child.

"A lot was attempted, a lot was tried" to remove Reichman from the school, he said. "He is unfortunately still in the classroom."

One prominent rabbi, speaking on the condition of anomynity, questioned whether abuse allegations were true.

"If there's a family fight, a dispute in the family, it could start with verbal abuse. What happens next? You know and I know, it becomes 'he raped me,' or whatever," the rabbi said. "If you're telling me there are allegations of abuse, I don't know what 'allegations' really means."

Engelman says that after Reichman was reinstated, the school's religious leaders then tried to minimize what had happened. He claims the school told his mother that since the touching was on the outside of Engelman's clothes, it was not a big deal.

Just a few excerpts from the 4 page article, but definatly interesting. What say you, NSG?

http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/story?id=7376057&page=1
Mirkana
05-05-2009, 20:35
I say that the Jewish community should place the rabbi under herem - excommunication from the Jewish community.

While it may not mean much, I personally will now refuse to speak with him, do business with him, or even sit near him.
Sarkhaan
05-05-2009, 20:39
I say that the Jewish community should place the rabbi under herem - excommunication from the Jewish community.

While it may not mean much, I personally will now refuse to speak with him, do business with him, or even sit near him.

It seems that it was not just this one rabbi, but several members of the community...and not just in Brooklyn. Reports coming from across the country, and involving community leaders beyond just rabbis (lawyers, family of rabbis, etc)
The Atlantian islands
05-05-2009, 20:47
That's gross. They should be arrested. I wonder what the hell the correlation is between ultra-religious people and nasty shit like this? And Rabbis are even allowed to do their wives, unlike priests.
King Arthur the Great
05-05-2009, 20:55
They should be prosecuted to the same extent of the law as any other pedophile.

Really, the thing I find interesting is that people think the sexual abuse of minors and the cover-up is limited to the Catholics. It occurs across religious and spiritual lines, it just isn't covered with the same frequency.

I'm not glad that these acts happened, but I am glad that they are being brought to light, and I hope that awareness of the problem grows as a result of this.
Nodinia
05-05-2009, 21:02
Just a few excerpts from the 4 page article, but definatly interesting. What say you, NSG?

http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/story?id=7376057&page=1

Depressingly familiar.
Sarkhaan
05-05-2009, 21:10
That's gross. They should be arrested. I wonder what the hell the correlation is between ultra-religious people and nasty shit like this? And Rabbis are even allowed to do their wives, unlike priests.
It seems that it is because Orthodox Jews tend to form a very closed community....similar to that of the Catholic hierarchy...they close off and take care of themselves.
They should be prosecuted to the same extent of the law as any other pedophile.

Really, the thing I find interesting is that people think the sexual abuse of minors and the cover-up is limited to the Catholics. It occurs across religious and spiritual lines, it just isn't covered with the same frequency.

I'm not glad that these acts happened, but I am glad that they are being brought to light, and I hope that awareness of the problem grows as a result of this.The issue with the Catholics wasn't just the fact that there was abuse, but the ammount and extent of the cover up done by the church.
King Arthur the Great
05-05-2009, 21:14
It seems that it is because Orthodox Jews tend to form a very closed community....similar to that of the Catholic hierarchy...they close off and take care of themselves.

The issue with the Catholics wasn't just the fact that there was abuse, but the ammount and extent of the cover up done by the church.

But that is the point: that the cover-ups exist in more communities than Teh Evul (P/R)apists! It's just hard to find coverage on other denominations.
Call to power
05-05-2009, 22:11
this would explain all the fascination with little boys foreskins.

While it may not mean much, I personally will now refuse to speak with him, do business with him, or even sit near him.

Jews are weird
Blouman Empire
06-05-2009, 00:59
That's gross. They should be arrested. I wonder what the hell the correlation is between ultra-religious people and nasty shit like this? And Rabbis are even allowed to do their wives, unlike priests.

In Australia the main perpetrators where all Anglican priests, and they too are allowed to have wives etc.

However, even then it is not just religious leaders who become child molesters so no there probably isn't any correlation.
Wilgrove
06-05-2009, 01:00
You know, before I opened this thread, I was soo going to make a molesting priest joke, but that just seems tasteless now. :(
Mirkana
06-05-2009, 01:25
It seems that it was not just this one rabbi, but several members of the community...and not just in Brooklyn. Reports coming from across the country, and involving community leaders beyond just rabbis (lawyers, family of rabbis, etc)

Then I condemn the lot of them. They are a disgrace to the Jewish people.
Brutland and Norden
06-05-2009, 04:10
That's gross. They should be arrested. I wonder what the hell the correlation is between ultra-religious people and nasty shit like this? And Rabbis are even allowed to do their wives, unlike priests.
Many pedophiles make efforts to get into professions and positions in which they would be closer to children and arouse little suspicion - for example, pediatricians, priests, teachers, etc. Hence the correlation is between certain professions and nasty shit, not ultra-religious people and nasty shit.
Hairless Kitten
06-05-2009, 16:21
It are paedophiles which should be punished.

I don't understand the link with religion or culture. And some posters their opinion are flirting with racism. You have paedophiles in ALL cultures, races, societies or whatever...
Holy Paradise
06-05-2009, 18:58
Actually, statistics say that the ratio of normal religious leaders to pedophile religious leaders is better (like 1 pedo for every one hundred norms) than the entire adult pop. ratio (2 pedos for every one hundred norms)

The only reason this gets lots of attention is because, well, religious leaders are usually really trusted members of the community.
Neo Bretonnia
06-05-2009, 21:05
It seems the media has found another flame of hysteria to fan now that Swine Flu is a bust.
Neo Bretonnia
06-05-2009, 21:05
You know, before I opened this thread, I was soo going to make a molesting priest joke, but that just seems tasteless now. :(

It wasn't tasteless before?
Sarkhaan
06-05-2009, 22:09
It are paedophiles which should be punished.

I don't understand the link with religion or culture. And some posters their opinion are flirting with racism. You have paedophiles in ALL cultures, races, societies or whatever...
Much of it isn't just the pedophilia, but the coverup that is then done to protect a criminal. Yes, it is awful that the Priests of the Catholic faith and the Rabbis of the Jewish faith have abused their position of power. What is worse is that other community leaders have then downplayed it and protected a criminal.
Actually, statistics say that the ratio of normal religious leaders to pedophile religious leaders is better (like 1 pedo for every one hundred norms) than the entire adult pop. ratio (2 pedos for every one hundred norms)

The only reason this gets lots of attention is because, well, religious leaders are usually really trusted members of the community.

Part of it is that they are trusted members of the community, and the other part is, as I mentioned above, the coverup then done by others within the community.