NationStates Jolt Archive

The country, that is (http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090505/wl_nm/us_georgia_coup).

So is Russia really the culprit, or is Saakashvili looking for a convenient scapegoat for the country's domestic problems?

Discuss.

I wouldnt be surprised if Russia was trying to fiance a coup, as unstable government would make NATO membership very unlikely in the future. I also wouldn't be surprised if this whole thing wasn't staged by the PM of Georgia to maintain his hold on power.

not really enough evidence to say either way.

The country, that is (http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090505/wl_nm/us_georgia_coup).

So is Russia really the culprit, or is Saakashvili looking for a convenient scapegoat for the country's domestic problems?

Discuss.
The Russians might well have had a hand in it, but I'm sure there are a lot of pissed off generals who've lost a lot of men and gear after the moronic attack on South Ossetia.

The Russians might well have had a hand in it, but I'm sure there are a lot of pissed off generals who've lost a lot of men and gear after the moronic attack on South Ossetia.

Depends on if they were cut off from the planning or not.
If they had destroyed the tunnel into Russia, the South Ossetia thing might have worked. But their special ops wasn't up to the task it seems.

Depends on if they were cut off from the planning or not.
If they had destroyed the tunnel into Russia, the South Ossetia thing might have worked. But their special ops wasn't up to the task it seems.
If they'd have destroyed the tunnel, Ivan would have blown Tblisi to fuck from the air.

If they'd have destroyed the tunnel, Ivan would have blown Tblisi to fuck from the air.

The next part of plan involved lining the mountains with anti air. Nothing makes taking out Air craft easier than your SAMs being 3,000 meters closer to them.

If you destroy the tunnel and line the mountains with AA you can defeat the Russians would have had to send their army to climb the mountains to take out the AA in order to clear the path for its bombers.
the hope was by that time all Russians forces on the Georgia side of the border would have been defeated. Then sue for peace with the Russians.

The plan didn't work because the tunnel was not taken. They should have made the initial tunnel attack look like a terrorist attack. load some explosives in a few South Ossetian trucks and detonate them all at once under the tunnel.

The major flaw with the plan was assuming the Russians would sue for peace. They would simply climb over the mountain take out the AA fly in troops and win.

I wouldnt be surprised if Russia was trying to fiance a coup, as unstable government would make NATO membership very unlikely in the future. I also wouldn't be surprised if this whole thing wasn't staged by the PM of Georgia to maintain his hold on power.

not really enough evidence to say either way.

Meh. After all Russia's already got what they wanted, that is Abkhazia and South Ossetia. And Saakashvili is already being targeted every day by the opposition over the war - and I don't know how much the Obama administration will support him the same way Bush did.

The Russians are just going to wait for the ripe fruit to fall, if you ask me - of course they're not above financing the opposition, but financing directly a coup would not be in their best interests right now. Also, just a single military base rebelling? If the Russians were involved most of the Georgian military would be rebelling, I think - think about the sheer amount of money Russia can invest.

Maybe the Georgian military base was just revolting out of disgruntlement for having being pitted into a stupid conflict they couldn't hope to win, or maybe they're just not being paid enough.

The major flaw with the plan was assuming the Russians would sue for peace. They would simply climb over the mountain take out the AA fly in troops and win.

Also, don't forget how many tank-carrying hovercrafts the Russians have in the Black Sea.

Meh. After all Russia's already got what they wanted, that is Abkhazia and South Ossetia. And Saakashvili is already being targeted every day by the opposition over the war - and I don't know how much the Obama administration will support him the same way Bush did.
[quote]
Russia wants one more thing. Georgia to not be Buddy buddy with the US and NATO.

[quote]
The Russians are just going to wait for the ripe fruit to fall, if you ask me - of course they're not above financing the opposition, but financing directly a coup would not be in their best interests right now. Also, just a single military base rebelling? If the Russians were involved most of the Georgian military would be rebelling, I think - think about the sheer amount of money Russia can invest.

Depends on the loyalty of the Generals. I think Russia is also limited by both the current economic crisis (they were based largely on oil prices which have plummeted 70%), and they don't want to fund them in such a way as to make it obvious, and risk angering the global public.

Maybe the Georgian military base was just revolting out of disgruntlement for having being pitted into a stupid conflict they couldn't hope to win, or maybe they're just not being paid enough.
maybe. Coups do happen often enough, though normally there is an outsider financier or supporter somewhere outside the country. Because whats the good of a coup if you lose world trade and get almost nothing.

sounds like bollocks if you ask me from a government with a credibility of the daily mail

The country, that is (http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090505/wl_nm/us_georgia_coup).

Good God, your title nearly gave me a heart-attack.

Good God, your title nearly gave me a heart-attack.

http://failblog.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/fail-owned-geography-fail2.jpg

Good God, your title nearly gave me a heart-attack.

the title got my hopes up. I say we are about due for a civil war.

Good God, your title nearly gave me a heart-attack.

Seriously, I was thinkin the same thing, lol...

http://17thscinfantry.tripod.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/civilwarcrossstitch.jpg

:p

http://failblog.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/fail-owned-geography-fail2.jpg

Quite...

In my own summary:

Is it possible that Russia tried something? Very much, yes.

Is it likely? Even more so, no.

Then what? Take your pick: weak pay, pissed off at being in the fire line in a lost war, pissed off at losing the aforementioned lost war, or some idiot officer decided to make a power grab by himself.

If you ask me, one of the first three is the most likely. The third one in particular.

the title got my hopes up. I say we are about due for a civil war.

A civil war with tanks doesn't sound fun at all. Imagine how much gas is gunna go up!

A civil war with tanks doesn't sound fun at all. Imagine how much gas is gunna go up!

But imagine how much I will be able to profit from a civil war.

But imagine how much I will be able to profit from a civil war.

It'll be like Fallout 3 without the nuclear wasteland or mutants!

It'll be like Fallout 3 without the nuclear wasteland or mutants!
You wish.

A civil war with tanks doesn't sound fun at all. Imagine how much gas is gunna go up!

Sad part is, for me at least, id face the same decision they did in the first one...

Idk which side to get on, cause, likely, we'll end up joining them if they do go off, *looks at state flag*, yeah, we probably will, lol...

And, Ill be torn because Ill need to defend my little spot in the world, but, at the same time, I hated the supposed "views" of the teaparties, :(

It'll be like Fallout 3 without the nuclear wasteland or mutants!

I sell food to both sides at highly marked up prices.
then when the war is over I retire rich as can be with with a teenage wife as all the young men have killed each other.

http://failblog.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/fail-owned-geography-fail2.jpg

That is some funny shit. Got my laugh for the day. If only it was the state of Georgia.

I thought we destroyed and/or looted all of their tanks..

I thought we destroyed and/or looted all of their tanks..

Bush sent them new ones.

I thought we destroyed and/or looted all of their tanks..

Evidently you didn't try hard enough. Need moar high explosives.

Evidently you didn't try hard enough. Need moar high explosives.

I suppose we could get them next time. Saakashvili is our equivalent of the West's Hugo Chavez.. chances are that his own army would turn on him if he were to try something like that again though.

Also, don't forget how many tank-carrying hovercrafts the Russians have in the Black Sea.
And the fact that they made sure to sink the entire Georgian Navy and Coast Guard, (Even after the Ceasefire)

And the fact that they made sure to sink the entire Georgian Navy and Coast Guard, (Even after the Ceasefire)
Sakaashvilli needed bitchslapping tbqh.

"Yeah spend a ludicrous amount of your government revenues on the military if you like, we still can and will destroy you if you do anything to fuck with us"

I thought we destroyed and/or looted all of their tanks..

Russia took out or captured nearly exactly half of their T-72 arsenal.
They still have around 70 T-72s left and reportedly around 45 T-55AMs.

They lost some Self propelled Artillery and some BMP-2s as well, but that's it when it comes to armoured units. Everything else was fast enough to escape.

Their Airforce took a hit but Georgia never used it's airforce for anything but bombing and CAS missions.

Lastly, much of Georgia's Air defense equipment survives.

The only thing Russia truly destroyed was the Georgian navy, which was only around 15 ships anyway.

Sakaashvilli needed bitchslapping tbqh.

"Yeah spend a ludicrous amount of your government revenues on the military if you like, we still can and will destroy you if you do anything to fuck with us" The f*cking was from both sides. Both parties were complete ******s over this.

Some say that it was not that much rebellion, but rather a strike. Still we have to admit that when it's the military that go all civil (military?) disobedience, people have the reason to overreact.