NationStates Jolt Archive

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30535258/

Rather interesting case.
At first it seems like a group of white teenagers beat a Hispanic man to death.

Then looking at the details in the testimony. Seems like the the man was the instigator. Not to mention the whole 25 year old with a 15 year old girlfriend thing, brings some serious character issues to surface.


So what is your opinion of the verdict ?
Travesty of justice or a just verdict?

i prefer not seconding guessing juries.

Two observations... The demagogues will be all over this. But this wouldn't have happened, if the Mexican fellow had any regard for the law in the first place.

i prefer not seconding guessing juries.

Tehre were some cases in the civil rights movement it was needed.

But this wouldn't have happened, if the Mexican fellow had any regard for the law in the first place.

Would you be saying the same thing about the rich suburbanites who decided it would be fun to shoot colored refugees during the flooding of New Orleans?

i prefer not seconding guessing juries.

Aye, they have been exposed to far more facts of the case than any of us have witnessed, and I strongly suspect that a single, short news blurb can convey the amount of info they've been inundated with over the past few days.

Would you be saying the same thing about the rich suburbanites who decided it would be fun to shoot colored refugees during the flooding of New Orleans?

Not heard about this 'un.

Would you be saying the same thing about the rich suburbanites who decided it would be fun to shoot colored refugees during the flooding of New Orleans?

Urban myth, isn't it?

Not heard about this 'un.

Urban myth, isn't it?

Looking it up, though the Gretna controversy (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/12/15/60minutes/main1129440.shtml) adds weight to the assertion though.

Hmm. Yea, I suppose I'd need all of the case details before I'd decided whether or not this was a 'failure of justice.'

I've never honestly like the term hate crime. Aren't all beatings inherently spawned from hate? meh.

i prefer not seconding guessing juries.

^^This.

Not going to speculate on the details. But, even if he was being a criminal sexual deviant, nobody deserves to be beaten to death. Mob justice is no justice at all. Assuming there was clear evidence that the victim of the bashing was a total jerk, pedophile, and stealer-of-candy-from-babies, if there is also clear evidence that these guys beat him, then they shouldn't get away with it. That's as much as any of us can say without the details of the case.

Also, why do people still feel the need to point out ethnicities in these cases? The law, and therefore the reporting of the law, should be colour blind.

If the teens were hispanic and the man beaten to death was white, I wonder if the outcome would have been the same.

Then looking at the details in the testimony. Seems like the the man was the instigator. Not to mention the whole 25 year old with a 15 year old girlfriend thing, brings some serious character issues to surface.

I just want to be the first to say:

He was asking for it wearing that outfit.

not enough evidence.

Looking it up, though the Gretna controversy (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/12/15/60minutes/main1129440.shtml) adds weight to the assertion though.

Not really, it seems like the police were trying to maintain what degree of control they had over the area. They'd already pulled 6,000 people out of the N.O. through Gretna, and they didn't have the facilities, manpower or resources to deal with any more people. I mean, this sounds like an overwhelmed small town, where they'd already seen a number of refugees that totaled a full third of their population come through, and their social services had long since passed the breaking point.

Would you be saying the same thing about the rich suburbanites who decided it would be fun to shoot colored refugees during the flooding of New Orleans?

Interesting how this is completely irrelevant to this whole thread.

Interesting how this is completely irrelevant to this whole thread.

As irrelevant as your "This wouldn't have happened if he had been following the law" AKA "Dirty illegal got what was coming to him" argument, which is why I brought it up.

^^This.

Not going to speculate on the details. But, even if he was being a criminal sexual deviant, nobody deserves to be beaten to death. Mob justice is no justice at all. Assuming there was clear evidence that the victim of the bashing was a total jerk, pedophile, and stealer-of-candy-from-babies, if there is also clear evidence that these guys beat him, then they shouldn't get away with it. That's as much as any of us can say without the details of the case.

Also, why do people still feel the need to point out ethnicities in these cases? The law, and therefore the reporting of the law, should be colour blind.

by the witness accounts in there didn't seem to be mob justice.
A fight broke out it ended. The teens walked away the man charged after them for round two.

As for why they mentioned ethnicity because the prosecution charged the defendants with a hate crime.

Now I wonder when he stopped moving, and who kept hitting him after that.
Or was it the one hit that knocked him out that killed him.

Urban myth, isn't it?
I am not sure of the reliability of this source (http://www.thenation.com/doc/20090105/thompson?rel=hp_picks), but if it is correct then it certainly is not an urban myth.

Looking it up, though the Gretna controversy (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/12/15/60minutes/main1129440.shtml) adds weight to the assertion though.

Look at Gretna on a map.
Surrounded by Mississippi river on 3 sides and a bayou on the 4th.
The supposed road out(West bank expressway) goes though the bayou and would have been flooded.

Not to justify the police blasting shot guns over the heads of people, but it was their prerogative to close the city in a state of emergency.

Whoever started the rumor that there were buses out of Gretna should be blamed more then anyone.

As irrelevant as your "This wouldn't have happened if he had been following the law" AKA "Dirty illegal got what was coming to him" argument, which is why I brought it up.
Nope, you missed the point there. I had worried about being too subtle, but if the illegal had some respect for law, he wouldn't have crossed our border and wouldn't have been where he was.

Bad things happen to bad people.

by the witness accounts in there didn't seem to be mob justice.
A fight broke out it ended. The teens walked away the man charged after them for round two.

As for why they mentioned ethnicity because the prosecution charged the defendants with a hate crime.

Now I wonder when he stopped moving, and who kept hitting him after that.
Or was it the one hit that knocked him out that killed him.

agreed. too many unanswered questions with only the article to go by.

the reason Ethnicity was brought up was because of all the racial slurs that were hurled. I guess saying racial things in an argument makes it a hate crime. :rolleyes:

without knowing all the evidence and hearing the testimonies, I too, won't second guess the juries.

Nope, you missed the point there. I had worried about being too subtle, but if the illegal had some respect for law, he wouldn't have crossed our border and wouldn't have been where he was.

"No no no, you spell it with an 'E'."
"Actually Mr. Quayle, 'potato' was spelled right."

I think you're the one who missed the point there completely. Graduated with honors from the Imperial Stormtrooper Marksmanship Academy even.

agreed. too many unanswered questions with only the article to go by.

the reason Ethnicity was brought up was because of all the racial slurs that were hurled. I guess saying racial things in an argument makes it a hate crime. :rolleyes:

without knowing all the evidence and hearing the testimonies, I too, won't second guess the juries.

Anyone up in PA want to get the court transcripts it would great.

"No no no, you spell it with an 'E'."
"Actually Mr. Quayle, 'potato' was spelled right."

I think you're the one who missed the point there completely. Graduated with honors from the Imperial Stormtrooper Marksmanship Academy even.

well add to it the fact that it was a 25 yr old man with his 15 yr old girlfriend... chances are, the jocks wouldn't have made the comment about her being out late if she wasn't there. :p

I am not sure of the reliability of this source (http://www.thenation.com/doc/20090105/thompson?rel=hp_picks), but if it is correct then it certainly is not an urban myth.

Well, if this is correct, I'd say the "for sport" aspect certainly is. Looks like straight-up racist panic. I'd like some confirmation, though.

Nope, you missed the point there. I had worried about being too subtle, but if the illegal had some respect for law, he wouldn't have crossed our border and wouldn't have been where he was.

Bad things happen to bad people.

Why am I not suprised that Myrmi thinks its ok for rich suburban white kids to beat brown illegals to death?


Oh, right. Because its Myrmi.

Why am I not suprised that Myrmi thinks its ok for rich suburban white kids to beat brown illegals to death?


Oh, right. Because its Myrmi.

Way to completely miss facts of the story and take a snipe at someone you disagree with.

Typical.

Great job!

Nope, you missed the point there. I had worried about being too subtle, but if the illegal had some respect for law, he wouldn't have crossed our border and wouldn't have been where he was.

Bad things happen to bad people.

Criminal Justice does not work that way!

Way to completely miss facts of the story and take a snipe at someone you disagree with.

Typical.

Great job!

No, I know the facts of the story. Probably better then you do. It doesnt change the fact that Myrmi implied this guy deserved it for being an illegal.

Nothing about the story changes Myrmi being a racist with scewed morality.

Nope, you missed the point there. I had worried about being too subtle, but if the illegal had some respect for law, he wouldn't have crossed our border and wouldn't have been where he was.

Bad things happen to bad people.

Thereby, if you jaywalk, it is entirely your fault if I repeatedly run you over with a truck, nevermind that I was waiting for you to do so. See how this argument goes?

Thereby, if you jaywalk, it is entirely your fault if I repeatedly run you over with a truck, nevermind that I was waiting for you to do so. See how this argument goes?

Its only ok if youre brown and the person doing the 'running over' is white.