NationStates Jolt Archive

A two-year-old girl who can name 35 capital cities has become the youngest member to join high IQ society, Mensa.
Elise Tan Roberts, from Edmonton, north London, has an IQ of 156 and can recite the English alphabet, count to 10 in Spanish and name types of triangle.
Elise took the standard Stanford-Binet Intelligence Scale test which showed she was in the top 0.2% in her age group in the UK.
Mensa has described the girl as an "exceptional child".

Read More >> (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/8026439.stm)

An IQ test isn't proving any intelligence at all, but a minor part of it.

And even that one is unsure. One can train himself in performing better in IQ tests by instance. And an ordinary word fight before conducting the IQ test will drop your results.

Maybe this child is really intelligent, I don't know, but what's for sure is that they will expect too much from her, which will influence her later development.

The child is showing some knowledge which is rather unusual for children of that age. But knowledge has nothing to do with being smart. If you really want, you could achieve the same results with your own child. But in a way it would be a mild form of child abuse.

The younger you take the test, the more valid the results are.

The younger you take the test, the more valid the results are.

No it's not entirely true. An IQ test isn't measuring something like height or weight.

It's a comparison against the population. And I doubt if there are many results available about 2 year old ones. That means that the comparison field is rather small, which could lead to biased results.

I thought it was a norm, not an exception?

Meaning that you need to be mentally a 2-year-old to get into MENSA.

I thought it was a norm, not an exception?

Meaning that you need to be mentally a 2-year-old to get into MENSA.
Hyuk hyuk.

And even that one is unsure. One can train himself in performing better in IQ tests by instance.
How can a 2-yr old train themselves to perform better in IQ tests?

How can a 2-yr old train themselves to perform better in IQ tests?

I wasn't pointing at the child, but at you and me.

But even for the child it is possible to train it. How? Rather easily: by doing IQ tests.

I'll give an easy example. In many ordinary IQ tests, they will present you a problem that involves the Fibonacci numbers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fibonacci_number).

If you know (thus knowledge) these numbers then you don't have to analyse the algorithm behind. You can immediately enter the result.

People who don't know the Fibonacci numbers will maybe not find the answer, due they not 'see' the algorithm or by stress.

Are those people less intelligent? Not necessarily.

I agree, IQ tests are useless. In fact, the concept of "IQ" is pretty useless, because IQ is actually defined as "that which is measured by an IQ test". Circular reasoning? Not at all.

It's just a tool which psychologists apparently deem useful. It just lowers my esteem of shrinks even further.

I have to make a correction.

IQ tests are useless beyond the normal level.

An IQ test is useful in telling a retard from an autistic, or a kid that skipped school from a plain dumb one, or all these from an average one.

It's not, however, of any use past the mark of 90, maybe even 80. It's not doing it fast and thoroughly what it's about; it's being able or unable to work with the basic patterns it presents. Although, diluted with vocabulary, it's way less useful even in that.

My school had my IQ tested when I was in kindergarten. Apparently my mom objected to the whole affair so she made sure I never found out what my score was. One day in seventh grade, my social studies teacher let it slip. She was pissed. When I was nineteen, I had it tested again. Since then, I have come to agree with my mother and I intend to either not have my children tested or not tell them the results. I've already been pressured by the school to have Little Goofball tested. I suspect it's because he completely dismantled a wall clock with a miniature screwdriver he snuck out of the house. :p

[I]A two-year-old girl who can name 35 capital cities has become the youngest member to join high IQ society, Mensa.

I've always thought that people from Mensa, Triple-9 etc are just a bunch of idiots. If they were intelligent they would be doing something, not attending to a wankers' club!

I suspect it's because he completely dismantled a wall clock with a miniature screwdriver he snuck out of the house. :p

Tell little goofball that screwdrivers should not be taken out of home. Swiss army knives and multitools are way better, so give him one for his birthday!:D

Tell little goofball that screwdrivers should not be taken out of home. Swiss army knives and multitools are way better, so give him one for his birthday!:D

You don't know the level of trouble even that screwdriver caused at his school. You'd think it was a vial of Anthrax the way his teacher reacted. :p

Meh IQ tests? I'm not really good at doing tests, so I guess I'll not bother to find out my test doing score.

You don't know the level of trouble even that screwdriver caused at his school. You'd think it was a vial of Anthrax the way his teacher reacted. :p
Mix one dash with two ounces of whiskey and five ounces of cola, and it makes a great cocktail.

My school had my IQ tested when I was in kindergarten. Apparently my mom objected to the whole affair so she made sure I never found out what my score was. One day in seventh grade, my social studies teacher let it slip. She was pissed. When I was nineteen, I had it tested again. Since then, I have come to agree with my mother and I intend to either not have my children tested or not tell them the results. I've already been pressured by the school to have Little Goofball tested. I suspect it's because he completely dismantled a wall clock with a miniature screwdriver he snuck out of the house. :p

It's possible that they need the score in order to put him into a gifted program.

I've always thought that people from Mensa, Triple-9 etc are just a bunch of idiots. If they were intelligent they would be doing something, not attending to a wankers' club!

God forbid people with high IQ scores socialise with each other.

It's possible that they need the score in order to put him into a gifted program.

Yeah, it was mentioned to me that in many schools it's a requirement before placement in advanced classes. I find that annoying. What I find doubly annoying is that they wouldn't let me take the clock pieces home to have him reassemble them. That's what I do when he dismantles stuff at home. I show him how it works and have him put it back together again.

God forbid people with high IQ scores socialise with each other.

That's how the Manhattan Project happened you know. It was originally a poker club but after a night of excessive drinking.... well, you know the rest. :(

That's how the Manhattan Project happened you know. It was originally a poker club but after a night of excessive drinking.... well, you know the rest. :(

You play poker? I never knew.

God forbid people with high IQ scores socialise with each other.

i've heard that once you join a high iq society, your every waking moment is required to be devoted to furthering the society - membership drives, cookie selling fundraisers, cleaning up the treehouse, etc.

Wow well done to that kid :)

i've heard that once you join a high iq society, your every waking moment is required to be devoted to furthering the society - membership drives, cookie selling fundraisers, cleaning up the treehouse, etc.

Meh, I don't feel like doing any of that stuff.

Call me when they get their hands on some uranium.

I took one IQ test, and I got 110. However, I suck at taking standardize tests, so sometimes I wonder if it could be higher.

You play poker? I never knew.

We thought we were building a beer cooler. :(

i've heard that once you join a high iq society, your every waking moment is required to be devoted to furthering the society - membership drives, cookie selling fundraisers, cleaning up the treehouse, etc.

Only if you let them elect you to the board. Otherwise, it's just like any other group of friends that gets together about once a month to drink and eat and tell jokes.

That kid is a dumbass. I can do all that. Even better, I can do the alphabet BACKWARDS. Beat that, kiddo :p

You don't know the level of trouble even that screwdriver caused at his school. You'd think it was a vial of Anthrax the way his teacher reacted. :p

Yeah, I can picture that... One would think that the teacher would just explain him that school furniture isn't supposed to be used for show and tell, have a good laugh, and then give him as classwork the task to rebuild the watch! At least that's what I would have done.

Anyway, aww... I invoke the 42th amendment: right to bear swiss army knives! At least the kid version of them, you know, the ones with the blunt blade.

That kid is a dumbass. I can do all that. Even better, I can do the alphabet BACKWARDS. Beat that, kiddo :p

I can do three alphabets (latin, greek and cyrillic), and also backwards. Nyah! Nyaaaah!!!:tongue:

God forbid people with high IQ scores socialise with each other.

Yep. In the best case you have NSG.

No, seriously: I would never choose the people whom I socialise with over their IQ score. That's just stupid.

Yeah, it was mentioned to me that in many schools it's a requirement before placement in advanced classes. I find that annoying. What I find doubly annoying is that they wouldn't let me take the clock pieces home to have him reassemble them. That's what I do when he dismantles stuff at home. I show him how it works and have him put it back together again.

You could take him to a private psychologist and let them test him, he'll probably not realize he's being tested at all, they'll give him puzzles to do and ask him stupid questions.....it's what my mom did. Only don't do the second part of what my mom did and go crazy and decide that "being able to do puzzles" somehow translates into supreme responsibility to fix everything that's wrong in the world....she seriously texted me yesterday to let me know the pandemic is my fault, because apparently instead of playing DnD with hubby I should have gone to medical school and cured it before it existed. :rolleyes:

You could take him to a private psychologist and let them test him, he'll probably not realize he's being tested at all, they'll give him puzzles to do and ask him stupid questions.....it's what my mom did. Only don't do the second part of what my mom did and go crazy and decide that "being able to do puzzles" somehow translates into supreme responsibility to fix everything that's wrong in the world....she seriously texted me yesterday to let me know the pandemic is my fault, because apparently instead of playing DnD with hubby I should have gone to medical school and cured it before it existed. :rolleyes:

It's not too late if you finish that damn time machine she made you start. :p

It's not too late if you finish that damn time machine she made you start. :p

O.M.F.G. You know my mother. :eek:

Also, she's pretty pissed that oldest Smunkling is playing baseball this summer, which means she can't go to physics camp.....nevermind the fact that she LOVES baseball and she's 7......and physics camp is for high school kids..... and she hates physics....

fun with score correlations:
http://www.assessmentpsychology.com/iq.htm

O.M.F.G. You know my mother. :eek:

Also, she's pretty pissed that oldest Smunkling is playing baseball this summer, which means she can't go to physics camp.....nevermind the fact that she LOVES baseball and she's 7......and physics camp is for high school kids..... and she hates physics....

Damn that free will! :mad:

Damn that free will! :mad:

How is the anti-free will machine coming?

Masturbating
Egotistical
Nonsense for
Solipsistic
Assholes

How is the anti-free will machine coming?

Not so good. Church attendance is down.

;)

Masturbating
Egotistical
Nonsense for
Solipsistic
Assholes
Et tu Brute? Harsh.

Not so good. Church attendance is down.

;)

Ba-zing!

*gives slice of cheesecake*

O.M.F.G. You know my mother. :eek:

Also, she's pretty pissed that oldest Smunkling is playing baseball this summer, which means she can't go to physics camp.....nevermind the fact that she LOVES baseball and she's 7......and physics camp is for high school kids..... and she hates physics....

I guess once we run out of oil society will collapse because your kid played baseball instead of inventing a magical free energy thingamabob.



Oh my god, thingamabob is in the firefox dictionary.

Et tu Brute? Harsh.

How is that harsh? What does the "society" actually do for anyone but themselves? What's the benefit of joining other than to say you're a member?

Seems like a stroke-fest to me. And I qualify.

How is that harsh? What does the "society" actually do for anyone but themselves? What's the benefit of joining other than to say you're a member?

Seems like a stroke-fest to me. And I qualify.

Does any society have to do anything other than for it's members? It's not a charity, it's a social group. The benefit of joining a social group is for social opportunities. I find benefit in the SIGs, I have friends all over the world now that I can talk to about things that people around me don't really give a shit about. There are 4 people in one of my SIGs, four people internationally. There are three people in the whole fucking world who want to talk about it. I want to talk about it, you don't want to hear about it, sounds like we both benefit.

How is that harsh? What does the "society" actually do for anyone but themselves?
Why would anyone expect them to do anything for anyone but themselves? Should my local canoe club do something for me?
What's the benefit of joining other than to say you're a member?
You get to attend their meetings and events, maybe even organise some of them yourself. Much like any other club.

Seems like a stroke-fest to me. And I qualify.

Congrats.

Why would anyone expect them to do anything for anyone but themselves? Should my local canoe club do something for me?

ask not what you can do for the canoe club, ask what the canoe club is doing for you!

ask not what you can do for the canoe club, ask what the canoe club is doing for you!

Nothing! Shower of wankers, sitting about in their canoes, helping nobody.

Nothing! Shower of wankers, sitting about in their canoes, helping nobody.

i think part of the problem is that they've adopted the rules of fight club as the rules of canoe club with only the slightest of modifications

I feel sorry for the kid. My parents had the wisdom not to rush my development or place abnormal expectations on me just because I scored extremely highly on an IQ test as a child.

I'm very glad they just let me grow up as I would and didn't bother telling me what I scored until I was almost out of college. I probably won't tell my future kids either if I have any.

I feel sorry for the kid. My parents had the wisdom not to rush my development or place abnormal expectations on me just because I scored extremely highly on an IQ test as a child.

I'm very glad they just let me grow up as I would and didn't bother telling me what I scored until I was almost out of college. I probably won't tell my future kids either if I have any.

The kid in the OP is probably going to peak way too soon.

The kid in the OP is probably going to peak way too soon.
What does that even mean?

I feel sorry for the kid. My parents had the wisdom not to rush my development or place abnormal expectations on me just because I scored extremely highly on an IQ test as a child.

I'm very glad they just let me grow up as I would and didn't bother telling me what I scored until I was almost out of college. I probably won't tell my future kids either if I have any.

That's fine unless your kid runs into problems, then you might want to be a responsible parent and you know, help them out.

i think part of the problem is that they've adopted the rules of fight club as the rules of canoe club with only the slightest of modifications
Rule #1 of Canoe Club: You do not talk about Fight Club. It wasn't that good of a story in the first place, and the reference is 10 years old now. Can't we, as society, just move on?

Rule #1 of Canoe Club: You do not talk about Fight Club. It wasn't that good of a story in the first place, and the reference is 10 years old now. Can't we, as society, just move on?

no, that would violate several of the additional rules of canoe club.

My school had my IQ tested when I was in kindergarten. Apparently my mom objected to the whole affair so she made sure I never found out what my score was. One day in seventh grade, my social studies teacher let it slip. She was pissed. When I was nineteen, I had it tested again. Since then, I have come to agree with my mother and I intend to either not have my children tested or not tell them the results. I've already been pressured by the school to have Little Goofball tested. I suspect it's because he completely dismantled a wall clock with a miniature screwdriver he snuck out of the house. :p

My parents had me tested when I was about that age, and never told me the results except that I was smart, which I already knew. It wasn't until I took the test again in college (as part of a psych study) and they told me my score after I was done that I called up my father and had him tell me if the old score was similar to the new. As it turns out, it was. I was rather shocked that all my life I'd been guessing that my IQ was a LOT lower than it really is, and agreed with my parents' choice not to tell me until I asked as an adult. It was rough enough being "that smart kid" throughout elementary school without being "that seriously insanely smart kid who is some sort of prodigy or something, holy shit." That was a sort of pressure I really didn't need - like Smunkee pointed out, having people expect you to somehow be some sort of superhero just because you're really good at learning stuff isn't especially helpful.

As for MENSA, I've never joined, but I've attended a few meetings as a guest. My impression is that most chapters are just groups of smart people of various ages who like meeting new people, especially the sort of new people who don't say, "Why do you always use big words?" or "Dude, you actually enjoyed Moby-Dick? What the fuck is wrong with you?" very often. There are a few actual snobs, but mostly they seemed to be nice people who just like going out for a spaghetti dinner once a month with people they could discuss economic theories or Renaissance art with without having to worry about being accused of being stuck-up.

Does any society have to do anything other than for it's members? It's not a charity, it's a social group. The benefit of joining a social group is for social opportunities. I find benefit in the SIGs, I have friends all over the world now that I can talk to about things that people around me don't really give a shit about. There are 4 people in one of my SIGs, four people internationally. There are three people in the whole fucking world who want to talk about it. I want to talk about it, you don't want to hear about it, sounds like we both benefit.

Fair enough.

The thing is, why do they always show up in discussions of people who are smart? It comes off as though one must be a member to be seriously considered intelligent by anyone else, and that's just not true.

Fair enough.

The thing is, why do they always show up in discussions of people who are smart? It comes off as though one must be a member to be seriously considered intelligent by anyone else, and that's just not true.

I must not be smart enough to understand your question........are you asking why Ms show up in conversations about MENSA? Because we have things to say about it.

I don't think only Ms are smart, I know a lot of people who aren't Ms either by not having tested or not interested in joining who are very smart. I even know people who wouldn't qualify if they did test that are very smart. I think people misunderstand what being in MENSA means, it just means you're in MENSA. It's a social group, it's not a think tank. There's not really any purpose other than to get together and hang out......we aren't really trying to save the world......we're kinda tired of people expecting us to.

That's fine unless your kid runs into problems, then you might want to be a responsible parent and you know, help them out.

Thanks for pointing that out. It hadn't occurred to me that I would actually have to do something as a parent. :rolleyes:

I must not be smart enough to understand your question........are you asking why Ms show up in conversations about MENSA? Because we have things to say about it.

I don't think only Ms are smart, I know a lot of people who aren't Ms either by not having tested or not interested in joining who are very smart. I even know people who wouldn't qualify if they did test that are very smart. I think people misunderstand what being in MENSA means, it just means you're in MENSA. It's a social group, it's not a think tank. There's not really any purpose other than to get together and hang out......we aren't really trying to save the world......we're kinda tired of people expecting us to.

Again, fair enough. I just wish that MENSA wouldn't be some kind of attempted badge of honor whenever some irresponsible member is trying to show off. I hear, "and she's in MENSA", and I think "so what?"

I haven't read the article, so I don't know what else she did, but none of the things listed in the OP are particularly remarkable for a two-year-old. What kid couldn't recite the ABCs by then? I spoke in complete sentences, could say my ABCs, and counted to ten in English and Spanish before I turned two (I'm an only child, and my parents actually wrote this stuff down until I was about 4).

Now, if the kid took the Stanford-Binet, read the questions herself and wrote the answers herself, that's different.

Also, this has probably been said, but the video in the link demonstrates to me that this child's "abilities" are more memorization than advanced intelligence. She can respond to a set of questions with one specific correct answer, but asked to display creativity--to ask the examiner a "tough" question--she repeats earlier questions she asked with no apparent memory of asking them or understanding. It's parroting.

A two-year-old girl who can name 35 capital cities has become the youngest member to join high IQ society, Mensa.
Elise Tan Roberts, from Edmonton, north London, has an IQ of 156 and can recite the English alphabet, count to 10 in Spanish and name types of triangle.
Elise took the standard Stanford-Binet Intelligence Scale test which showed she was in the top 0.2% in her age group in the UK.
Mensa has described the girl as an "exceptional child".

Read More >> (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/8026439.stm)

An IQ test isn't proving any intelligence at all, but a minor part of it.

And even that one is unsure. One can train himself in performing better in IQ tests by instance. And an ordinary word fight before conducting the IQ test will drop your results.

Maybe this child is really intelligent, I don't know, but what's for sure is that they will expect too much from her, which will influence her later development.

The child is showing some knowledge which is rather unusual for children of that age. But knowledge has nothing to do with being smart. If you really want, you could achieve the same results with your own child. But in a way it would be a mild form of child abuse.

Hmm, I guess for most people it doesn't seem like a big deal, but at two years old, it's fairly impressive to learn those types of things. However, I agree with you that knowledge does not intelligence make, and hopefully she actually recognizes and can use what she learns instead of spitting it back out like a crap machine. One thing I gotta say is: This is gonna suck later in life. I'm not sure if this holds true for everyone, but it seems to me the more people expect from you from an early age, the worse you turn out later. (Warning: Bullshit anecdotal evidence) I, who everyone loved and thought really freakin' intelligent in elementary school, have defied pretty much everyone's expectations and become a teenager who's out of gas and has a boatload of mental issues. My brother, who was my parents' unfavorite as a kid, has proven himself much more intelligent and well-adjusted than I, and far more likely to get into a good college.

Again, fair enough. I just wish that MENSA wouldn't be some kind of attempted badge of honor whenever some irresponsible member is trying to show off. I hear, "and she's in MENSA", and I think "so what?"

It's similar to being in a bowling league, except with more booze and less movement. ;)

Thanks for pointing that out. It hadn't occurred to me that I would actually have to do something as a parent. :rolleyes:

Sorry, just read what was written (an possibly misinterpreted), this idea that you should never tell a kid if they are brighter than anyone else is flawed, especially when they might need to know that........so they can figure out what's "wrong" with them. The idea that you (general you) shouldn't IQ test a kid is fine, if you don't really have a reason beyond morbid curiosity (one of my kids has been tested the other hasn't) but sometimes you need to test them, so they can get into programs that would help them. You don't have to tell them their exact score, my oldest knows she's "smart" she doesn't know she's profoundly gifted.....I think it sounds pretentious so we told her she's smart.

My biggest problem with mensa is not that it's for smart people - it's that it's for people with high IQs - and yet so many people take it as a sign of exclusivity, wear it like a badge of honour - and happily exclude all the other smart people with lower IQs.

My biggest problem with mensa is not that it's for smart people - it's that it's for people with high IQs - and yet so many people take it as a sign of exclusivity, wear it like a badge of honour - and happily exclude all the other smart people with lower IQs.

It's a good way to weed out people you don't want to hang out with.

I thought this was a thread about Two year old Jedis, :(

My school had my IQ tested when I was in kindergarten. Apparently my mom objected to the whole affair so she made sure I never found out what my score was. One day in seventh grade, my social studies teacher let it slip. She was pissed. When I was nineteen, I had it tested again. Since then, I have come to agree with my mother and I intend to either not have my children tested or not tell them the results. I've already been pressured by the school to have Little Goofball tested. I suspect it's because he completely dismantled a wall clock with a miniature screwdriver he snuck out of the house. :p

I kinda had that issue as a kid. Taking things apart just to see how they worked, thinking about the why it was even working in the first place, then putting it all back together and going back to my Legos...

Oh, and the insanity of some teachers these days when a child brings something such as a toothpick to school...

It's a good way to weed out people you don't want to hang out with.

*shrug* whilst on many levels I find such a tactic to be lacking in ethical excellence I could not offer a superior alternative to qualification to a high-intellect society that would not be more exclusionist.

*shrug* whilst on many levels I find such a tactic to be lacking in ethical excellence I could not offer a superior alternative to qualification to a high-intellect society that would not be more exclusionist.

I meant the people who would brag about it, like it meant something.

Don't you have to send them money every year?

I meant the people who would brag about it, like it meant something.

oh I see! I did think your response was a little uncharacteristically cold.

It's a good way to weed out people you don't want to hang out with.

No it's not, because IQ is such a terrible indicator of personality and interests. I've seen so many people remarkably claim that you can only have these types of 'enlightened' discussions of 'more intellectual matters' if your IQ is at a certain threshold. That is obvious bullshit.

Don't you have to send them money every year?

Indeed.

No it's not, because IQ is such a terrible indicator of personality and interests. I've seen so many people remarkably claim that you can only have these types of 'enlightened' discussions of 'more intellectual matters' if your IQ is at a certain threshold. That is obvious bullshit.

Exactly. Also 'dumb' (read the ones with a lower IQ) can have remarkable ideas or smart opinions.

No it's not, because IQ is such a terrible indicator of personality and interests. I've seen so many people remarkably claim that you can only have these types of 'enlightened' discussions of 'more intellectual matters' if your IQ is at a certain threshold. That is obvious bullshit.

If you look, you'll see that's not what Smunkee was saying.

That said, of course what you just suggested is not bullshit. You are almost certainly not going to be able to have much of a discussion about theoretical physics with someone who is functionally retarded. That doesn't mean that person is in any way worthless or less of a person, but it does mean their brain is not equipped to deal with that sort of topic. I don't think any sensible person disputes that. What I think you really intend to argue is not that there is no difference between someone with an IQ of 70 and someone with an IQ of 170, but rather that there is very little difference between someone with an IQ of 154 and someone with an IQ of 146 - which is quite obviously true, and why the few people who join MENSA just to be snobs are silly dicks. As I said, though, my (admittedly limited) experience with MENSA members has been that most of them join because "people here will be smart," not because "people elsewhere are stupid."

If you look, you'll see that's not what Smunkee was saying.

That said, of course what you just suggested is not bullshit. You are almost certainly not going to be able to have much of a discussion about theoretical physics with someone who is functionally retarded. That doesn't mean that person is in any way worthless or less of a person, but it does mean their brain is not equipped to deal with that sort of topic. I don't think any sensible person disputes that. What I think you really intend to argue is not that there is no difference between someone with an IQ of 70 and someone with an IQ of 170, but rather that there is very little difference between someone with an IQ of 154 and someone with an IQ of 146 - which is quite obviously true, and why the few people who join MENSA just to be snobs are silly dicks. As I said, though, my (admittedly limited) experience with MENSA members has been that most of them join because "people here will be smart," not because "people elsewhere are stupid."

But you have no guarantee that high IQ people their brain is equipped to deal theoretical physics. By instance, programmers will score in general high on IQ tests. That doesn't mean they are all smart, interested in all and able to discus about anything.

But you have no guarantee that high IQ people their brain is equipped to deal theoretical physics. By instance, programmers will score in general high on IQ tests. That doesn't mean they are all smart, interested in all and able to discus about anything.

Well, that's where SIGs come in. A SIG is a special interest group, in MENSA they have a SIG about, almost everything you could think of. You can get together (usually internationally) with people who are interested in what you are interested in and talk to them about it. There are local SIGs where you can get together IRL with people in your area that are interested in what you are interested in.

Well, that's where SIGs come in. A SIG is a special interest group, in MENSA they have a SIG about, almost everything you could think of. You can get together (usually internationally) with people who are interested in what you are interested in and talk to them about it. There are local SIGs where you can get together IRL with people in your area that are interested in what you are interested in.

Can't you use a blog or website for that purpose?

It doesn’t matter what one his/her expertise is, still you can have pleasant talks with non-experts about that expertise, but it is also very nice to have advanced talks with other subject matter experts.

With the experts, it's a different way of communication. You can use jargon, you don't have to explain the basics and you can converse at a higher bandwidth. Non-experts would kill the fun of that kind of communication.

Point is, you don’t need Mensa to meet such people.

Can't you use a blog or website for that purpose?

It doesn’t matter what one his/her expertise is, still you can have pleasant talks with non-experts about that expertise, but is also very nice to have advanced talks with other subject matter experts.

With the experts, it's a different way of communication. You can use jargon, you don't have to explain the basics and you can converse at a higher bandwidth. Non-experts would kill the fun of that kind of communication.

Point is, you don’t need Mensa to meet such people.
I never said you did.

If you look, you'll see that's not what Smunkee was saying.


Whoops.


That said, of course what you just suggested is not bullshit. You are almost certainly not going to be able to have much of a discussion about theoretical physics with someone who is functionally retarded. That doesn't mean that person is in any way worthless or less of a person, but it does mean their brain is not equipped to deal with that sort of topic. I don't think any sensible person disputes that. What I think you really intend to argue is not that there is no difference between someone with an IQ of 70 and someone with an IQ of 170, but rather that there is very little difference between someone with an IQ of 154 and someone with an IQ of 146 - which is quite obviously true, and why the few people who join MENSA just to be snobs are silly dicks. As I said, though, my (admittedly limited) experience with MENSA members has been that most of them join because "people here will be smart," not because "people elsewhere are stupid."

Yes but it's pointless arbitrarily setting an IQ number that you require before you are allowed to discuss things. You should instead just have a general intellectual discussion club that anyone can join. Only people who want to have an intellectual discussion will be there, and generally people who want to talk about these more complex issues will also likely be able to offer as much as anyone in MENSA, even if their IQ is five points below the MENSA threshold.

Yes but it's pointless arbitrarily setting an IQ number that you require before you are allowed to discuss things.
We aren't actively stopping anyone from talking about anything. It's not some global censorship conspiracy.
You should instead just have a general intellectual discussion club that anyone can join.
Those exist.
Only people who want to have an intellectual discussion will be there, and generally people who want to talk about these more complex issues will also likely be able to offer as much as anyone in MENSA, even if their IQ is five points below the MENSA threshold.
Well, yeah, but that's not the point of MENSA. 90% of our meetings are composed of drinking too much and making puns......that's all. It's not some thinktank situation, it's just a social group, just like any other social group.

We aren't actively stopping anyone from talking about anything. It's not some global censorship conspiracy.


No, but MENSA is massive and almost monopolised, there aren't actually many alternatives easily available.

No, but MENSA is massive and almost monopolised, there aren't actually many alternatives easily available.

Um......there aren't? Why not? If people need an alternative surely they would figure one out?

Um......there aren't? Why not? If people need an alternative surely they would figure one out?

Well, a huge portion are already going to MENSA, significantly reducing demand.

Well, a huge portion are already going to MENSA, significantly reducing demand.

I thought you said that there was a demand for intellectual discussion outside of MENSA level IQ people........is there or isn't there?

I thought you said that there was a demand for intellectual discussion outside of MENSA level IQ people........is there or isn't there?

There is a demand, for people who haven't got the IQ to get in, that number however is probably a little too low and spread out to create an organisation as effective as MENSA. But this is irrelevant, I didn't say that they inherently effect society negatively, I am saying the requirement to get in is silly.

There is a demand, for people who haven't got the IQ to get in, that number however is probably a little too low and spread out to create an organisation as effective as MENSA. But this is irrelevant, I didn't say that they inherently effect society negatively, I am saying the requirement to get in is silly.

Well, it's arbitrary to the max, I don't know if it's silly though. The cut off has to be somewhere.....to be a true "high IQ society" which it is, if it didn't have a cutoff then it wouldn't be what it is.

Well, it's arbitrary to the max, I don't know if it's silly though. The cut off has to be somewhere.....to be a true "high IQ society" which it is, if it didn't have a cutoff then it wouldn't be what it is.

But its ultimate purpose is intellectual stimulation, that its a 'high IQ society' is not an end, but a means, and an unnecessary one.

But its ultimate purpose is intellectual stimulation, that its a 'high IQ society' is not an end, but a means, and an unnecessary one.
I don't agree.

Whoops.



Yes but it's pointless arbitrarily setting an IQ number that you require before you are allowed to discuss things. You should instead just have a general intellectual discussion club that anyone can join. Only people who want to have an intellectual discussion will be there, and generally people who want to talk about these more complex issues will also likely be able to offer as much as anyone in MENSA, even if their IQ is five points below the MENSA threshold.

If they are missing just 5 points then with some IQ test training and by conducting the test in the morning they could pass the test.

Sorry, just read what was written (an possibly misinterpreted), this idea that you should never tell a kid if they are brighter than anyone else is flawed, especially when they might need to know that........so they can figure out what's "wrong" with them. The idea that you (general you) shouldn't IQ test a kid is fine, if you don't really have a reason beyond morbid curiosity (one of my kids has been tested the other hasn't) but sometimes you need to test them, so they can get into programs that would help them. You don't have to tell them their exact score, my oldest knows she's "smart" she doesn't know she's profoundly gifted.....I think it sounds pretentious so we told her she's smart.

Perhaps it wasn't me doing the misinterpretation. I'm not opposed to telling my future children they're smart. Nor am I opposed to having a standardized IQ assessment done. It's just that I have no plans to tell the kid their score on that assessment or suggest to them that it's a meaningful measure of their potential or actual worth.

God forbid people with high IQ scores socialise with each other.
Yes, isn't it good to see how virulently people attack those who might actually be more intelligent than they are? It's almost as if they may feel jealous or threatened.

Um......there aren't? Why not? If people need an alternative surely they would figure one out?
.....unless they're not sm---

Bad Kat. Go stand in the corner.
(no I am not a MENSA member, I am just imMENSely amused by the vitriol people have for it. Why does no one get peeved about the Boy Scouts? They exclude girls. Or the Girl Scouts? Why could they possibly need to get together? Aren't there NON-SCOUTING girls they could hang with? How about dog fanciers? Why don't they breed cats?)

Silly.

Yes, isn't it good to see how virulently people attack those who might actually be more intelligent than they are? It's almost as if they may feel jealous or threatened.


.....unless they're not sm---

Bad Kat. Go stand in the corner.
(no I am not a MENSA member, I am just imMENSely amused by the vitriol people have for it. Why does no one get peeved about the Boy Scouts? They exclude girls. Or the Girl Scouts? Why could they possibly need to get together? Aren't there NON-SCOUTING girls they could hang with? How about dog fanciers? Why don't they breed cats?)

Silly.

In this particular case, the good people of MENSA (whoever runs it) do look a little silly, accepting a two-year-old who can, as far as I've seen, do what any reasonably smart two-year-old can do if her/his parents coach her/him enough. Not adding a lot to intellectual discourse, here... unless there are other MENSA toddlers who enjoy reciting the names capitals of countries.

In this particular case, the good people of MENSA (whoever runs it) do look a little silly, accepting a two-year-old who can, as far as I've seen, do what any reasonably smart two-year-old can do if her/his parents coach her/him enough.

oh?

"Elise took the standard Stanford-Binet Intelligence Scale test which showed she was in the top 0.2% in her age group in the UK."

Why does no one get peeved about the Boy Scouts? They exclude girls.


People do actually get peeved about that.

People do actually get peeved about that.

I suspect the same type of people.

This girl will never be normal. Her parents have taken that away from her forever by pushing her to join Mensa so young. I feel so sorry for her.

(Also, 1000 posts. Woot.)

Yes, isn't it good to see how virulently people attack those who might actually be more intelligent than they are? It's almost as if they may feel jealous or threatened.
I'm fairly sure I'd qualify for their membership. Why would I want to join, though?


(no I am not a MENSA member, I am just imMENSely amused by the vitriol people have for it. Why does no one get peeved about the Boy Scouts?
It's the elitism. The Boy Scouts don't call themselves "The best 1% of people".

It's not like there are no other organizations but MENSA that attract intelligent people. There are, lots of them. Pretty much any club, any organization, any conference, that is related to an activity requiring a certain amount of intellect. Only they don't call themselves "The smart people's clubs".

If you just want to create a place for smart people to hang out, you don't need to use a test or a cutoff. Just talk about things dumb people don't care about, and they'll have no interest in joining.

It's like if someone created a "$100,000+ Disposable Income (Confirmed by Financial Records) Club". Mind you, not "High Life Club", or "Tax Dodging Club", or "Professionals and Executives Club", but explicitly that. Would they come off as elitist? Yes. And annual income is a better measure of man than mentally rearranging polygons.

This girl will never be normal. Her parents have taken that away from her forever by pushing her to join Mensa so young. I feel so sorry for her.

(Also, 1000 posts. Woot.)

Well let's suppose you're right and this child will never have a normal childhood. Would that be so bad? Michael Jackson didn't have a normal childhood and look how he turned out! :D

This girl will never be normal. Her parents have taken that away from her forever by pushing her to join Mensa so young. I feel so sorry for her.

(Also, 1000 posts. Woot.)

I'd like to know what "normal" is.

I'm fairly sure I'd qualify for their membership. Why would I want to join, though?
Nobody is asking you to. If you can't figure out why to join, then don't.

It's the elitism. The Boy Scouts don't call themselves "The best 1% of people".

It's not like there are no other organizations but MENSA that attract intelligent people. There are, lots of them. Pretty much any club, any organization, any conference, that is related to an activity requiring a certain amount of intellect. Only they don't call themselves "The smart people's clubs".

If you just want to create a place for smart people to hang out, you don't need to use a test or a cutoff. Just talk about things dumb people don't care about, and they'll have no interest in joining.

It's like if someone created a "$100,000+ Disposable Income (Confirmed by Financial Records) Club". Mind you, not "High Life Club", or "Tax Dodging Club", or "Professionals and Executives Club", but explicitly that. Would they come off as elitist? Yes. And annual income is a better measure of man than mentally rearranging polygons.
Of course it's elitism. Everything is. Just like those pesky universities who look at your test scores, or those annoying hospitals who want their doctors to pass the boards.......etc.

I'm fairly sure I'd qualify for their membership. Why would I want to join, though?



It's the elitism. The Boy Scouts don't call themselves "The best 1% of people".

It's not like there are no other organizations but MENSA that attract intelligent people. There are, lots of them. Pretty much any club, any organization, any conference, that is related to an activity requiring a certain amount of intellect. Only they don't call themselves "The smart people's clubs".

If you just want to create a place for smart people to hang out, you don't need to use a test or a cutoff. Just talk about things dumb people don't care about, and they'll have no interest in joining.

It's like if someone created a "$100,000+ Disposable Income (Confirmed by Financial Records) Club". Mind you, not "High Life Club", or "Tax Dodging Club", or "Professionals and Executives Club", but explicitly that. Would they come off as elitist? Yes. And annual income is a better measure of man than mentally rearranging polygons.

That's a load of shit.

Nobody is asking you to. If you can't figure out why to join, then don't.


Of course it's elitism. Everything is. Just like those pesky universities who look at your test scores, or those annoying hospitals who want their doctors to pass the boards.......etc.

But for those test scores you actual performed some hard work. I don't see what kind of elitism is involved with hard working.

That's a load of shit.
As a matter of fact, it's not. Scoring high on IQ tests is an indication that you can do something useless (pass IQ tests) better than others. Commanding a high salary or running a successful business is an indication that you can do something useful better than others.

A useful skill beats a useless one.


Of course it's elitism. Everything is. Just like those pesky universities who look at your test scores, or those annoying hospitals who want their doctors to pass the boards.......etc.
This is different though. You join a posh university to get a posh education and earn more money (or so you hope). You seek a job at the hospital to earn good money. Similarly, they have to be selective because the number of seats is limited, and high test scores are a clear indication that you have a better chance to pass through the uni. This is well-justified.

Elitism is when a posh neighborhood declares that you may not park a Ford in your own garage, but may park a Lincoln (a rebadged Ford).

These MENSA meetings - do they occupy themselves with solving or designing IQ tests there? If, as suggested by the SIG, not, the requirement of a high IQ is there just as a badge of superiority, for mentally rearranging polygons doesn't make one a better conversationalist or more knowledgeable in the subject.

But for those test scores you actual performed some hard work. I don't see what kind of elitism is involved with hard working.
Some people don't have to work as hard for them. Some people work really hard and never achieve a score high enough. Nobody asks how hard you worked for your "A" they are just happy you got one and assume that you know things that the person who got the "D" does not.

This is different though. You join a posh university to get a posh education and earn more money (or so you hope). You seek a job at the hospital to earn good money. Similarly, they have to be selective because the number of seats is limited, and high test scores are a clear indication that you have a better chance to pass through the uni. This is well-justified.
Is it?

Elitism is when a posh neighborhood declares that you may not park a Ford in your own garage, but may park a Lincoln (a rebadged Ford).
Not really, not the way I see elitism.

These MENSA meetings - do they occupy themselves with solving or designing IQ tests there?
None I've ever been to.
If, as suggested by the SIG, not, the requirement of a high IQ is there just as a badge of superiority, for mentally rearranging polygons doesn't make one a better conversationalist or more knowledgeable in the subject.
Because all of my life is spent rearranging polygons and I have no other interests at all? Or because the way my brain works in order to make me able to reorganize polygons is exactly the way everyone else's brain works and because everyone gets my jokes? My brain is weird, it's not normal, hanging out with people who have the same kind of brain malfunction is fun for me.

Some people don't have to work as hard for them. Some people work really hard and never achieve a score high enough. Nobody asks how hard you worked for your "A" they are just happy you got one and assume that you know things that the person who got the "D" does not.

For most people the goal is not a high test score on some examen, but enough points to pass the test.

That's a load of shit.

And why is that so?

For most people the goal is not a high test score on some examen, but enough points to pass the test.
I'm not most people, I guess. My goal is always to get the highest score on anything.

I don't care that I can get through a video game, I want to get through it and collect every single thing I can, otherwise what's the point?

Of course it's elitism. Everything is. Just like those pesky universities who look at your test scores, or those annoying hospitals who want their doctors to pass the boards.......etc.

It's hugely less arbitrary, and they are not clubs. There are two main reasons that Unis require high test scores - the demand for that course is massive, and the Uni has to be able to select the candidates most likely to succeed the best, where grades of prior exams in important subjects are a good indicator of such. Or the course is of a level of difficulty and quality that requires one to have good prior skills to be able to pass, as in, if I wanted to go to Cambridge to study physics, but I consistently got terrible scores in maths, it would be unlikely I would be able to cope with degree level physics, and the University does not want to take the risk of providing you with that partly subsidised education if you wont benefit it and will very likely drop out. There is nothing arbitrary about this, IQ scores on the other hand is not a particularly good indicator, although I'm aware that some universities also use that, which I also think is stupid.

Is it?
It is. You would clearly prefer to be treated by a doctor who has passed the board review.


Because all of my life is spent rearranging polygons and I have no other interests at all?
If rearranging polygons was a useful skill, there would be nothing elitist in MENSA, it would be a colleagues' club.


Or because the way my brain works in order to make me able to reorganize polygons is exactly the way everyone else's brain works and because everyone gets my jokes?
And people with IQ=110 don't get your jokes? Only people with IQ>125, regardless of their background, experiences, etc.?

It's then probably more along the lines of people being polite enough to laugh at an unfunny joke.


Nobody asks how hard you worked for your "A" they are just happy you got one and assume that you know things that the person who got the "D" does not.
And if you created a group "People who got very high SAT scores in high school", it would be just as silly and pointlessly elitist as MENSA.

I'm not most people, I guess. My goal is always to get the highest score on anything.

I don't care that I can get through a video game, I want to get through it and collect every single thing I can, otherwise what's the point?

That's rather a personal opinion. In case of learning examens, I prefer to study enough to pass the test. With the spare time, I can do stuff I really like.

It is. You would clearly prefer to be treated by a doctor who has passed the board review.
Fair enough. I want to be treated by the one who got the best score though, not the scraper-byer.

If rearranging polygons was a useful skill, there would be nothing elitist in MENSA, it would be a colleagues' club.
I think the ability to solve various puzzles is useful.

And people with IQ=110 don't get your jokes? Only people with IQ>125, regardless of their background, experiences, etc.?
Some of them do, but on the whole most of them don't even realize I'm joking. Or they do realize I'm joking and they don't know why it is funny and then they bitch about me "making them feel dumb".

It's then probably more along the lines of people being polite enough to laugh at an unfunny joke.
I assure you I'm fucking hilarious....


And if you created a group "People who got very high SAT scores in high school", it would be just as silly and pointlessly elitist as MENSA.
Yes. Just like those Magna Cum Laude people, freaking elitists.

Smunkeeville,

Point is Mensa is trying to attract smart people. To block the so called dumb ones, they use an IQ test. Problem is that an IQ test isn't measuring intelligence, but a minor part of it. It doesn't test creativity, originality, lateral thinking, empathy and so many other things which are related with intelligence.

Do you consider all your fellow Mensa colleagues as smart people?

Fair enough. I want to be treated by the one who got the best score though, not the scraper-byer.
We have capitalism for that.


Some of them do, but on the whole most of them don't even realize I'm joking. Or they do realize I'm joking and they don't know why it is funny and then they bitch about me "making them feel dumb".
I assure you I'm fucking hilarious....
Well, let's test it. Tell me a joke or two. I'd most likely qualify for MENSA, at least, I used to be in a way tighter crop than 1 out of 50.
Let's see if it's funny. And if others find it funny, too, and how does finding it funny correlate with their IQ or similar academic scores.


Yes. Just like those Magna Cum Laude people, freaking elitists.
If they create a big international club where the only condition for joining is a Magna Cum Laude degree in anything, yes, they are.

Smunkeeville,

Point is Mensa is trying to attract smart people. To block the so called dumb ones, they use an IQ test. Problem is that an IQ test isn't measuring intelligence, but a minor part of it. It doesn't test creativity, originality, lateral thinking, empathy and so many other things which are related with intelligence.

Do you consider all your fellow Mensa colleagues as smart people?

An IQ test can't test creative intelligence, I don't know how you would even begin to test that. I don't think that calling anyone with an IQ outside of the 98th percentile stupid is very nice, and it's certainly not true. I don't think all the Ms I've met have been smart, some of them are really bizarre, but they are bizarre in a smilar way.....so I can get along with them.

We have capitalism for that.



Well, let's test it. Tell me a joke or two. I'd most likely qualify for MENSA, at least, I used to be in a way tighter crop than 1 out of 50.
Let's see if it's funny. And if others find it funny, too, and how does finding it funny correlate with their IQ or similar academic scores.



If they create a big international club where the only condition for joining is a Magna Cum Laude degree in anything, yes, they are.

The fact that I've already joked at least 20 times in this thread and you and others have taken me seriously........proves my point.

The fact that I've already joked at least 20 times in this thread and you and others have taken me seriously........proves my point.

I don't understand what it proves, Vault 10 has a high IQ, so you haven't shown that someone with a high IQ is more likely to understand your jokes.

Smunkeeville,

Point is Mensa is trying to attract smart people. To block the so called dumb ones, they use an IQ test. Problem is that an IQ test isn't measuring intelligence, but a minor part of it. It doesn't test creativity, originality, lateral thinking, empathy and so many other things which are related with intelligence.

Do you consider all your fellow Mensa colleagues as smart people?

Where has MENSA ever stated that non-geniuses are "dumb"? Seems to me the only person doing that is, y'know, you.

MENSA isn't "trying to attract smart people." MENSA is a club which people with genius-level IQs can join if they like. That's it. I have never seen anything from MENSA itself claiming that non-MENSA-members are unintelligent or that they are going out of their way to "block" them. There are clubs for people who collect Beanie Babies, which probably do not admit members with no interest in Beanie Babies. There are clubs for people who are union members, which probably do not admit non-union members. There are clubs for wine connoisseurs, which probably do not admit teetotalers. And there is a club, called MENSA, for people with genius-level IQs, which does not admit people who do not meet the one single qualification to join the club. So freaking what?

An IQ test can't test creative intelligence, I don't know how you would even begin to test that. I don't think that calling anyone with an IQ outside of the 98th percentile stupid is very nice, and it's certainly not true. I don't think all the Ms I've met have been smart, some of them are really bizarre, but they are bizarre in a smilar way.....so I can get along with them.

Creativity tests do exist, you know.

Ok, I understand that some are bizarre. Many engineers and programmers are also very bizarre. With weird interest fields, a different life style, etc...

And they have also clubs. But few of them are excluding people and surely not based on some biased test.

If by accident, the 'wrong' people enter such a club, they will leave soon.

I don't understand what it proves, Vault 10 has a high IQ, so you haven't shown that someone with a high IQ is more likely to understand your jokes.
He says he has a high IQ, and that by his estimation he would "probably qualify"....to tell you the truth, everyone thinks they would "probably qualify" for MENSA.

Creativity tests do exist, you know.
Really? How would you begin to test creativity?

For most people the goal is not a high test score on some examen, but enough points to pass the test.

....which would seem to be a pretty good argument as for why overachievers might like to have some sort of social organization where they're not lectured at about being weirdos because they want to be the best rather than being content with doing "okay." Hey, I wonder how you could find people like that? Maybe if you had everyone take some sort of test, and invited the people who did really well to join a certain club...

Really? How would you begin to test creativity?

There are several tests available on the internet.

This is just one of them:

http://www.flandersdc.be/view/nl/2805431-Start+the+test.html

Where has MENSA ever stated that non-geniuses are "dumb"? Seems to me the only person doing that is, y'know, you.


Smunk is getting close. She seems to be claiming that people with lower IQs are less likely to understand her jokes.


MENSA isn't "trying to attract smart people." MENSA is a club which people with genius-level IQs can join if they like. That's it.

Clubs have a purpose, they don't out of the blue decide to form a club with a complete random and arbitrary required characteristic without a purpose. The purpose or goal of the club is for intellectual stimulation, and the founder even spoke of one day 'solving the worlds problems'. I think IQ is a poor and slightly unfair requirement in order to achieve this end.

There are several tests available on the internet.

This is just one of them:

http://www.flandersdc.be/view/nl/2805431-Start+the+test.html

That's a personality test. I thought you meant there were tests that somehow quantify how creative you are, not a test that can tell you how creative you think you are.

How would you test creativity? What kind of number score would be accurate? What if you are creative in a way that the test originator hadn't thought of? Is it really creativity if in order to pass the test you have to be creative in a prescribed way?

Smunk is getting close. She seems to be claiming that people with lower IQs are less likely to understand her jokes.
Not because I think they're dumb.....because I think their mind works differently than mine. It's neither here nor there.

Clubs have a purpose, they don't out of the blue decide to form a club with a complete random and arbitrary required characteristic without a purpose. The purpose or goal of the club is for intellectual stimulation, and the founder even spoke of one day 'solving the worlds problems'. I think IQ is a poor and slightly unfair requirement in order to achieve this end.
So, start your own club.

Smunk is getting close. She seems to be claiming that people with lower IQs are less likely to understand her jokes.

First, Smunk is not MENSA. She is an individual. Second, "people similar to me tend to understand me, and thus my jokes, better" is not the same thing as "anyone who is not like me is stupid."

Clubs have a purpose, they don't out of the blue decide to form a club with a complete random and arbitrary required characteristic without a purpose. The purpose or goal of the club is for intellectual stimulation, and the founder even spoke of one day 'solving the worlds problems'. I think IQ is a poor and slightly unfair requirement in order to achieve this end.

Then form another club that doesn't have such a requirement.

....which would seem to be a pretty good argument as for why overachievers might like to have some sort of social organization where they're not lectured at about being weirdos because they want to be the best rather than being content with doing "okay." Hey, I wonder how you could find people like that? Maybe if you had everyone take some sort of test, and invited the people who did really well to join a certain club...

An IQ test isn't measuring that at all.

Some smart people with a very broad knowledge on some specific interest field could fail on the Mensa test. Just because they are not good in arithmetic logics, which is tested the heaviest in an IQ test.

That's a personality test. I thought you meant there were tests that somehow quantify how creative you are, not a test that can tell you how creative you think you are.

How would you test creativity? What kind of number score would be accurate? What if you are creative in a way that the test originator hadn't thought of? Is it really creativity if in order to pass the test you have to be creative in a prescribed way?

Ok, I could be mistaken, but the text is showing this:

Creativity test

Start the test

In recent years, creativity has become a very highly valued skill. Creative people combine existing possibilities to reach new often unexpected solutions. Creativity is an essential building block for innovation in business. Everyone possesses a certain level of creativity; some just have more than others. Please note: this skill has its weak sides. Quality mainly comes from working conscientiously in a standardised manner. You know the saying: 20% inspiration, 80% perspiration. Take the test to see how creatively you think.

Here's another nice link:

http://www.indiana.edu/~bobweb/Handout/cretv_6.html

He says he has a high IQ, and that by his estimation he would "probably qualify"....to tell you the truth, everyone thinks they would "probably qualify" for MENSA.
I don't just "think" that, but actually have good reasons to believe I would. I've performed better than just 98% in academic competitions, and I had the highest score in the entrance test for our uni program, so I figure I'm good at tests. I score well by the measure of income, too (top few percent), thanks to progressing well in a job (naval architect) that clearly requires intelligence.
Taking a real IQ test (internet ones don't count, right?) would be a better measure of my ability to join MENSA, but I won't waste time on that for the purposes of an internet debate.


The fact that I've already joked at least 20 times in this thread and you and others have taken me seriously........proves my point.
That is called irony, and yes, I see it, for instance in the statement about games. That's not a joke to laugh at, though, as it isn't funny.

An IQ test isn't measuring that at all.

Some smart people with a very broad knowledge on some specific interest field could fail on the Mensa test. Just because they are not good in arithmetic logics, which is tested the heaviest in an IQ test.

Knowledgeable =/= intelligent. MENSA picks one particular standard, IQ. You can pick another one if you like and start your own club.

I don't just "think" that, but actually have good reasons to believe I would. I've performed better than just 98% in academic competitions, and I had the highest score in the entrance test for our uni program, so I figure I'm good at tests. I score well by the measure of income, too (top few percent), thanks to progressing well in a job (naval architect) that clearly requires intelligence.
Taking a real IQ test (internet ones don't count, right?) would be a better measure of my ability to join MENSA, but I won't waste time on that for the purposes of an internet debate.
Fair enough.


That is called irony, and yes, I see it, for instance in the statement about games. That's not a joke to laugh at, though, as it isn't funny.
Um.......no, not irony.

Knowledgeable =/= intelligent. MENSA picks one particular standard, IQ. You can pick another one if you like and start your own club.

Indeed. Knowledge is not the same as intelligence.

But why is Mensa using a test, where you have some advantages when you have a particular knowledge?

I gave already one example. The Fibonacci numbers. They are asked in most IQ tests (or a light variation on these numbers).

If you know them, then you don't have to solve anything. You just can use your knowledge...

I don't just "think" that, but actually have good reasons to believe I would. I've performed better than just 98% in academic competitions, and I had the highest score in the entrance test for our uni program, so I figure I'm good at tests.

This is similarly true for me - except I know I have a weakness for spatial awareness problems, which means my IQ score would probably end up being several points lower than some people I would beat at academic competitions, or people who I would easily pass by in entrance testing.

IQ tests aren't the same as 'academic competitions' and 'uni entrance tests'.

Indeed. Knowledge is not the same as intelligence.

But why is Mensa using a test, where you have some advantages when you have a particular knowledge?

I gave already one example. The Fibonacci numbers. They are asked in most IQ tests (or a light variation on these numbers).

If you know them, then you don't have to solve anything. You just can use your knowledge...

I don't think I've ever seen the Fibonacci series on an online IQ test. I've never taken a formal IQ test, so I can't speak to those.

Not because I think they're dumb.....because I think their mind works differently than mine. It's neither here nor there.


First, Smunk is not MENSA. She is an individual. Second, "people similar to me tend to understand me, and thus my jokes, better" is not the same thing as "anyone who is not like me is stupid."

I don't think there is a particularly significant shared characteristic that people with high IQ have. I know plenty of people with MENSA level high IQ, and they all have very different personalities, interests and understand things in different ways. It's designed to foster 'intellectual development', it's a club so that people can meet people of other intellects so that they don't have to be 'held back' by people with insufficient intellect (lets not kid ourselves here). Most people call that elitist.

I don't think there is a particularly significant shared characteristic that people with high IQ have. I know plenty of people with MENSA level high IQ, and they all have very different personalities, interests and understand things in different ways. It's designed to foster 'intellectual development', it's a club so that people can meet people of other intellects so that they don't have to be 'held back' by people with insufficient intellect (lets not kid ourselves here). Most people call that elitist.

I never said we were all the same, but we are more similar than we are different as far as how we solve problems. I don't think the last sentence is a fair representation.

Knowledgeable =/= intelligent. MENSA picks one particular standard, IQ. You can pick another one if you like and start your own club.

Mensa is linking IQ with intelligence.

This is what I found on the Belgian Mensa page:

"Mensa has three stated purposes: to identify and foster human intelligence for the benefit of humanity, to encourage research in the nature, characteristics and uses of intelligence, and to promote stimulating intellectual and social opportunities for its members."

http://www.mensa.be/

Mensa is linking IQ with intelligence.

This is what I found on the Belgian Mensa page:

"Mensa has three stated purposes: to identify and foster human intelligence for the benefit of humanity, to encourage research in the nature, characteristics and uses of intelligence, and to promote stimulating intellectual and social opportunities for its members."

http://www.mensa.be/

Yes. IQ is designed to measure intelligence, not knowledge. Hence why your complaint that people who are very knowledgeable could still do poorly on IQ tests has nothing to do with anything.

Now, we can debate how well various IQ tests actually measure intelligence, but I rather doubt enough people here have researched the assorted IQ testing methodologies to make that a particularly productive discussion.

I never said we were all the same, but we are more similar than we are different as far as how we solve problems. I don't think the last sentence is a fair representation.

This wouldn't be a problem if MENSA was a club for solving the specific types of problems that a high IQ assists with, it isn't.

I don't think I've ever seen the Fibonacci series on an online IQ test. I've never taken a formal IQ test, so I can't speak to those.

http://www.mensa.be/cgi-bin/preTest/preTest_v3.cgi

Enter a fake email address and look at question 3.

This test is from Mensa.

This wouldn't be a problem if MENSA was a club for solving the specific types of problems that a high IQ assists with, it isn't.

So, we get together, with one unifying theme, we did well on an IQ test.....and we see what happens. We aren't all alike, most of us are weird, but we hang out. I don't see the evil in it. I really don't.

So, we get together, with one unifying theme, we did well on an IQ test.....and we see what happens. We aren't all alike, most of us are weird, but we hang out. I don't see the evil in it. I really don't.

I'm not saying it's immoral.

http://www.mensa.be/cgi-bin/preTest/preTest_v3.cgi

Enter a fake email address and look at question 3.

This test is from Mensa.

The pre-test isn't like the real test, and it certainly isn't made up of questions on the real test. You don't even have to take MENSA's test to get in, you can submit your score from an approved test.

Memorizing the puzzles kinda defeats the purpose, most people don't memorize them I would think and the ones who did, because they couldn't figure it out on their own probably wouldn't have much fun being in MENSA since we tend to do things like solve puzzles for fun.

I'm not saying it's immoral.

What are you saying?

Yes. IQ is designed to measure intelligence, not knowledge. Hence why your complaint that people who are very knowledgeable could still do poorly on IQ tests has nothing to do with anything.

Now, we can debate how well various IQ tests actually measure intelligence, but I rather doubt enough people here have researched the assorted IQ testing methodologies to make that a particularly productive discussion.

It's a little weird, to claim that only the intelligent people can enter, by demanding (partly) some specific knowledge. This while knowledge has nothing to do with intelligence. People who have another field of even deep and broad knowledge could indeed fail on the Mensa test.

And you did research those IQ testing methodologies?

What are you saying?

That it fosters arrogance and elitism amongst many of its members inherently, even if that wasn't its design. That it was originally created based on an arrogant premise.

That it fosters arrogance and elitism amongst many of its members inherently, even if that wasn't its design. That it was originally created based on an arrogant premise.
I can't say I disagree with that.

I don't think there is a particularly significant shared characteristic that people with high IQ have. I know plenty of people with MENSA level high IQ, and they all have very different personalities, interests and understand things in different ways.

My experience has been different; I think it is generally much easier for me to communicate with people whose intelligence is in the same general range as my own, regardless of how different our personalities are. For an easy example, I found other students at my top-tier college generally more interesting and easy-to-understand conversationalists than people I have met through work, despite the fact that all the former had in common that the latter did not was being smart enough to attend a top-tier college.

It's designed to foster 'intellectual development', it's a club so that people can meet people of other intellects so that they don't have to be 'held back' by people with insufficient intellect (lets not kid ourselves here). Most people call that elitist.

I'm confused as to why thinking that it is good for smart people to be around other smart people on occasion is something shameful that we would be "kidding ourselves" trying to deny. That's kinda the whole premise behind not only MENSA but gifted programs, advanced sections of classes, considering Yale a better school if you're bright than Generic State University, etc. For that matter, the idea of putting people with others who are like them in some relevant way is also the principle behind having separate grade levels, varsity and JV sports teams, and so forth. Was it viciously mean and "elitist" of my high school gym teacher not to put me on the varsity basketball team simply because I sucked at basketball?

For that matter, I'm also a bit confused as to why "elite" has become such a dirty word in general. Is it so awful to admit that some people are better than others at a given activity? I'm totally okay with admitting that I am not as good at riding bicycles as Lance Armstrong, as good at public speaking as Barack Obama, or as good at understanding complex physics as Stephen Hawking. Why can I not also be aware that I am better than most people at, say, doing well on standardized tests without suddenly becoming a horrible "elitist"?

The pre-test isn't like the real test, and it certainly isn't made up of questions on the real test. You don't even have to take MENSA's test to get in, you can submit your score from an approved test.

Memorizing the puzzles kinda defeats the purpose, most people don't memorize them I would think and the ones who did, because they couldn't figure it out on their own probably wouldn't have much fun being in MENSA since we tend to do things like solve puzzles for fun.

I'm a consultant and I have to conduct IQ tests regularly.

In all IQ tests some Fibonacci (or a look a like) was involved.

It's a standard question.

My experience has been different; I think it is generally much easier for me to communicate with people whose intelligence is in the same general range as my own, regardless of how different our personalities are.

IQ is really only a measure of a specific sort of intelligence.


For an easy example, I found other students at my top-tier college generally more interesting and easy-to-understand conversationalists than people I have met through work, despite the fact that all the former had in common that the latter did not was being smart enough to attend a top-tier college.


I don't know what the situation in the US is, but in the UK, high IQ is not a requirement at all to join any university. You do not need a MENSA level IQ to be able to go to university. I also know many people who have a high IQ but cannot get into a 'top-tier' college.


I'm confused as to why thinking that it is good for smart people to be around other smart people on occasion is something shameful that we would be "kidding ourselves" trying to deny. That's kinda the whole premise behind not only MENSA but gifted programs, advanced sections of classes, considering Yale a better school if you're bright than Generic State University, etc. For that matter, the idea of putting people with others who are like them in some relevant way is also the principle behind having separate grade levels, varsity and JV sports teams, and so forth. Was it viciously mean and "elitist" of my high school gym teacher not to put me on the varsity basketball team simply because I sucked at basketball?

Again, the ways that universities select students is so massively less arbitrary than the selection process for MENSA. Sports team selection is also a massively less arbitrary then selection for MENSA.


For that matter, I'm also a bit confused as to why "elite" has become such a dirty word in general. Is it so awful to admit that some people are better than others at a given activity? I'm totally okay with admitting that I am not as good at riding bicycles as Lance Armstrong, as good at public speaking as Barack Obama, or as good at understanding complex physics as Stephen Hawking. Why can I not also be aware that I am better than most people at, say, doing well on standardized tests without suddenly becoming a horrible "elitist"?

Elitism fosters arrogance. It's arrogant to assume that people with specifically MENSA level IQs ALONE are better or more capable of doing the things they do, such as discussing certain works at their 'higher level' with 'higher understanding'. The examples you use don't use such arbitrary methods to assume that they have superior abilities.

Elitism fosters arrogance. It's arrogant to assume that people with specifically MENSA level IQs ALONE are better or more capable of doing the things they do, such as discussing certain works at their 'higher level' with 'higher understanding'. The examples you use don't use such arbitrary methods to assume that they have superior abilities.
Who said any of that though?

http://www.mensa.be/cgi-bin/preTest/preTest_v3.cgi

Enter a fake email address and look at question 3.

This test is from Mensa.
Indeed, Fibonacci.



BTW as to answer Smunkeeville's question: Not sure if it's good or bad, but that's what I got. As it was posted recently, you can safely assume I didn't practice, and I don't know a word of Dutch.
Bedankt voor het deelnemen aan de pretest van Mensa België.
Het aantal juiste antwoorden werd u via e-mail toegestuurd.

This came in the mail:

(Dit is een automatisch gegenereerd bericht.)

Bedankt voor het deelnemen aan de pretest van Mensa Belgi�.

U heeft 32 van de 33 vragen correct beantwoord.
Dit stemt ongeveer overeen met een kans van 76% om in de
eigenlijke toelatingstest van Mensa te slagen.

Indien u wenst deel te nemen aan een onder toezicht afgenomen IQ-test,
raadpleeg dan regelmatig de webpagina



voor een lijst van de testsessies die in de nabije toekomst zullen
gehouden worden.

Met vriendelijke groeten,
Mensa BE
.
Anyone know Dutch/Belgian?

In this particular case, the good people of MENSA (whoever runs it) do look a little silly, accepting a two-year-old who can, as far as I've seen, do what any reasonably smart two-year-old can do if her/his parents coach her/him enough. Not adding a lot to intellectual discourse, here... unless there are other MENSA toddlers who enjoy reciting the names capitals of countries.
That at least I can agree with. It's the vitriol against all MENSA members that I'm finding a bit disturbing.

Would folks be pissed off if people who like to discuss steampunk got together with others who also like it, so they have something to talk about that they enjoy and much of the rest of the population doesn't?

IQ is really only a measure of a specific sort of intelligence.

Yup.



I don't know what the situation in the US is, but in the UK, high IQ is not a requirement at all to join any university. You do not need a MENSA level IQ to be able to go to university. I also know many people who have a high IQ but cannot get into a 'top-tier' college.

I do not believe anything I said contradicted any of this.

Again, the ways that universities select students is so massively less arbitrary than the selection process for MENSA. Sports team selection is also a massively less arbitrary then selection for MENSA.

Quite a lot of how universities select students is extremely arbitrary. I knew plenty of people in high school with similar grades, similar extracurriculars, and similar standardized test scores who applied for the same schools and never knew why one would get in and another wouldn't. I know multiple people who got accepted by better schools and rejected by worse ones. I seriously doubt my experience is totally unique there. As for sports, if I try out for a track team, they are going to test me on how fast I run. If I cannot run fast, I will not make the track team, since the point of the track team is to get a group of people who can run fast. How is "ability to run fast" particularly less arbitrary than "ability to do well on IQ tests"?

Elitism fosters arrogance. It's arrogant to assume that people with specifically MENSA level IQs ALONE are better or more capable of doing the things they do, such as discussing certain works at their 'higher level' with 'higher understanding'. The examples you use don't use such arbitrary methods to assume that they have superior abilities.

And if anyone had argued that only people with genius-level IQs were capable of doing the things they do, you'd have a point!

Commanding a high salary or running a successful business is an indication that you can do something useful better than others.
Drug dealers and pimps can make a lot of money. It doesn't say much for how superior they are, though, does it?

Drug dealers and pimps can make a lot of money. It doesn't say much for how superior they are, though, does it?

Your words cut me Kat. Just because I have a few bitches and hoes, do I not still bleed? For those people who didn't get it - that was a joke.

Smunk is getting close. She seems to be claiming that people with lower IQs are less likely to understand her jokes.



Clubs have a purpose, they don't out of the blue decide to form a club with a complete random and arbitrary required characteristic without a purpose. The purpose or goal of the club is for intellectual stimulation, and the founder even spoke of one day 'solving the worlds problems'. I think IQ is a poor and slightly unfair requirement in order to achieve this end.
Yes, and people who don't understand Italian or German won't undertand what's going on in most opera (unless they read a translation/read subtitles/have it explained to them)

Your point?

Indeed, Fibonacci.



BTW as to answer Smunkeeville's question: Not sure if it's good or bad, but that's what I got. As it was posted recently, you can safely assume I didn't practice, and I don't know a word of Dutch.


This came in the mail:


Anyone know Dutch/Belgian?



I will translate.

Thanks for conducting the pre-test of Mensa Belgium.
You answered 32 of the 33 questions correctly.
You have about 76% chance to pass the real Mensa test.

If you wish to participate in a supervised IQ test, regularly consult the web page for a list of test sessions in the near future

Sincerely, Mensa BE

Yes, and people who don't understand Italian or German won't undertand what's going on in most opera (unless they read a translation/read subtitles/have it explained to them)

Your point?

I doubt that a neurologist can have advanced talks about his subject with non-neurologist. Even if those ones are a Mensa member.

Drug dealers and pimps can make a lot of money. It doesn't say much for how superior they are, though, does it?
Being a pimp is not easy. Successful pimping requires a very high level of personal charisma, and very specific skills.

To quote a bit from pimping 101:
The most effective weapon in a pimp's arsenal is his personality. Why is Snoop Dog considered a pimp-- blessed by the Bishop Don "Magic" Juan, an ex-pimp himself? He perfected the pimp mannerisms; he had game.

Ho's are never taken. They give themselves to a pimp. The process is called "choosing."
[...snip...]
It takes charm to achieve this effect-- a mix of dominance, style and psychological acumen. A pimp must learn a ho through and through, to know what buttons make her wet and what wets her cheek with tears.

Is pimping useful? A more difficult question. But I'd say yes, for pimps' services are highly sought after. Their job might be illegal, but they are helping people against the oppressive governmental laws against the natural synergy of sex and free enterprise, and for that alone have to be commended.

BTW, it's a misconception that pimps (and all others on the darker side) always make a lot of money. Looking rich is part of the job; it doesn't equate to being rich - pimps don't drive Maybachs or Rolls-Royces, they drive (according to a stereotype, but not an undeserving one) fairly cheap Cadillacs. So yes, the pimp is richer than the janitor, but is he doctor-like rich? In all likelihood, unless he caters to US Senators, no.

He says he has a high IQ, and that by his estimation he would "probably qualify"....to tell you the truth, everyone thinks they would "probably qualify" for MENSA.

I do qualify and I'm part of the group. I've rarely met anyone in the group that shuns others and looks at them as inferior beings. I have found people that are able to follow my A-C by skipping B thought process. Of course there are a few people who look down their nose at people but they are not the norm. We hang out, eat pizza, and discuss various political philosophies of ancient civilizations and their relation to the modern world. I have plenty of friends who are not Ms as well. I have different conversations with my friend the welder than I do with my friend the lawyer. As Smunkee said, there needs to be some sort of arbitrary cut off so there you have it. It's why colleges accept SAT scores and the like. You're not getting into my former school with anything below the 13's regardless of how creative, inquisitive, etc. you are. Now if there are people with similar SAT, GPA, cogs, etc. then there's room to expand your criteria.

Of course there are people who may not have a high IQ who are interested in the same subjects as us. Many of them can hold a decent conversation on the matter at hand. I just would rather have some time to talk to a person who was more of an intellectual (not personal worth) equal. I want to be able to say something, have it understood and analyzed, and get a thought provoking response. I don't want to repeat the same things over again and still have the person befuddled. I don't want to have to simplify it so they can understand better. Yes, I'm smart and I like to have conversations with other smart people. I'm intelligent by the grace of God and good genes. I'm smart because of my thirst for knowledge and unwillingness to accept to most commonly used solutions. Someone can be intelligent and not smart because they are isolated or intellectually lazy. At the same time people of average intelligence can work really hard to become smart.

I doubt that a neurologist can have advanced talks about his subject with non-neurologist. Even if those ones are a Mensa member.

You think it's likely that someone with an IQ < 110 (I'm stretching to be fair) is going to be a neurologist? My guess is their IQ will be above 120 or so and it would be a close match. I have to find the study regarding ability to communicate and relate across various standard deviations of IQ. The summation was generally that people who were within a standard deviation of one another on various IQ tests were more likely to comprehend and associate with one another. Once the difference went to 2 Sd or more it became more difficult for communication between the two people. I have it stowed away somewhere in print and don't know if I can find it online or in my home. I am highly intelligent but highly disorganized :eek: I assure you it was in a long standing peer reviewed journal as I cited it for a MA thesis. I wouldn't date put a piece of "non-reviewed drivel" in my thesis with the panel I knew were grading it. I also had to defend it in front of them so they would have handed me my ass as such.

You think it's likely that someone with an IQ < 110 (I'm stretching to be fair) is going to be a neurologist? My guess is their IQ will be above 120 or so and it would be a close match. I have to find the study regarding ability to communicate and relate across various standard deviations of IQ. The summation was generally that people who were within a standard deviation of one another on various IQ tests were more likely to comprehend and associate with one another. Once the difference went to 2 Sd or more it became more difficult for communication between the two people. I have it stowed away somewhere in print and don't know if I can find it online or in my home. I am highly intelligent but highly disorganized :eek: I assure you it was in a long standing peer reviewed journal as I cited it for a MA thesis. I wouldn't date put a piece of "non-reviewed drivel" in my thesis with the panel I knew were grading it. I also had to defend it in front of them so they would have handed me my ass as such.
I have a study somewhere in some journal (peer-reviewed I assure you) that shows that people mostly marry others within 10 points of their own IQ. I can't find it, so it's neither here nor there, but it seems people tend to associate with people with similar IQ's without tests.

I doubt that a neurologist can have advanced talks about his subject with non-neurologist. Even if those ones are a Mensa member.

I have to disagree. I have had in-depth conversations with neurologists, biologists, and people in other specialized scientific/medical fields, and while of course I don't perfectly understand every single thing they say (because I don't have years of both college and real-life experience in those areas), I can converse fairly easily with them, in no small part due to the fact that when they explain something I don't know about, I can understand them. I'm not a genius, but I'm pretty smart (smart enough to be in MENSA, not smart enough to be in most of those more exclusive ones, I'd say). Someone who is generally intelligent, who can take in and sort information in a way that allows her/him to make logical connections, is more likely to be able to talk to others on a higher level regardless of the subject.

BTW, it's a misconception that pimps (and all others on the darker side) always make a lot of money. Looking rich is part of the job; it doesn't equate to being rich - pimps don't drive Maybachs or Rolls-Royces, they drive (according to a stereotype, but not an undeserving one) fairly cheap Cadillacs. So yes, the pimp is richer than the janitor, but is he doctor-like rich? In all likelihood, unless he caters to US Senators, no.

"Cheap" caddies? Not if they're done up proper, son. And of course pimps don't drive Rolls-Royces, but it's not for lack of buying power. They're too conspicuous, advertise far too much wealth that can not be worked out on paper to the IRS, they make easy targets for drive-bys and thefts, and frankly... they're just not stylin.

As a matter of fact, it's not. Scoring high on IQ tests is an indication that you can do something useless (pass IQ tests) better than others. Commanding a high salary or running a successful business is an indication that you can do something useful better than others.

A useful skill beats a useless one.

A "matter of fact"? Really? Then you won't mind sourcing this "fact", will you?

No, it's matter of opinion. Commanding a high salary doesn't say a damned thing about a person beyond their ability to impress the people paying with skills or appearances specific top that salary's position, and the ability to negotiate a salary using those appearances or skills as leverage. That's not inherently more useful than anything else.

And while the ability to score high on an IQ test is useless on its own and out of context, it's no more or less useless than the ability to kiss ass required to work one's way up the corporate salary ranks...or the ability to fool gullible people into giving you money. Those skills, while survival-oriented and geared toward self-promotion, aren't automatically more useful than measurable intelligence. You've made a value judgment, and that's fine, but you can't call it a fact.

You seem to equate money with usefulness. You don't seem to have witnessed the explosion of celebrity worship in entertainment and sports, or the golden parachutes doled out to corporate executives who've run companies into the ground.

So the bullshit call still stands.

I have a study somewhere in some journal (peer-reviewed I assure you) that shows that people mostly marry others within 10 points of their own IQ. I can't find it, so it's neither here nor there, but it seems people tend to associate with people with similar IQ's without tests.

Interestingly enough my wife and I fit perfectly in that scheme. 10 points exactly. But going to what I have been saying about IQ mine is higher and her job certainly fits the role you would presume would be on top. Going along with the financial aspect someone brought up earlier she also happens to make more money than me. We're both smart, but money is more important to her so she went out and got a high profile job in NYC. Me, I run a restaurant business in a wealthy suburban county. In the days to come I jump into the city and try to see that big $. That or finally decide to take being a lawyer seriously. Just the expense of it all when you know you could be seeing money, cars, and vacations in the here and now. But it is great to have choices.

"Cheap" caddies? Not if they're done up proper, son. And of course pimps don't drive Rolls-Royces, but it's not for lack of buying power.
I know one pimp personally (not just as a customer). It is the lack of buying power.

Just for a mental experiment, calculate how many hos should work for a pimp if he's to make a profit of the scale to afford a really expensive car. And for a measure keep in mind that people generally buy cars that cost less than their yearly income.


They're too conspicuous
And a pimped-out Caddy is the benchmark of inconspicuousness? Man, being conspicuous is the whole point.

and frankly... they're just not stylin.
Don 'Magic' Juan has a Rolls-Royce. Don't tell me he doesn't know his stylin'.

A "matter of fact"? Really? Then you won't mind sourcing this "fact", will you?

No, it's matter of opinion. Commanding a high salary doesn't say a damned thing about a person beyond their ability to impress the people paying with skills or appearances specific top that salary's position, and the ability to negotiate a salary using those appearances or skills as leverage. That's not inherently more useful than anything else.

And while the ability to score high on an IQ test is useless on its own and out of context, it's no more or less useless than the ability to kiss ass required to work one's way up the corporate salary ranks...or the ability to fool gullible people into giving you money. Those skills, while survival-oriented and geared toward self-promotion, aren't automatically more useful than measurable intelligence. You've made a value judgment, and that's fine, but you can't call it a fact.

You seem to equate money with usefulness. You don't seem to have witnessed the explosion of celebrity worship in entertainment and sports, or the golden parachutes doled out to corporate executives who've run companies into the ground.

So the bullshit call still stands.

The ability to pass an IQ test, shows only that you are good at passing IQ tests. It has no real baring on ones intelect.

No, it's matter of opinion. Commanding a high salary doesn't say a damned thing about a person beyond their ability to impress the people paying with skills or appearances specific top that salary's position, and the ability to negotiate a salary using those appearances or skills as leverage. That's not inherently more useful than anything else.
And scoring high on an IQ test doesn't say a damned thing about a person beyond their ability to attain scores in a specific kind of test, using their test-taking skills and some of their abilities for it.

But impressing your employer with skills brings you actual money, which you can use to buy bread, corn, porn, toys, snow, hookers, cars, cops, homes, yachts, the list goes on the more money you have. Useful? I'd say very.

Passing IQ tests only makes your penis feel longer, which isn't really useful even in bed - it's the girth that matters, and real, not self-assessed.


You seem to equate money with usefulness. You don't seem to have witnessed the explosion of celebrity worship in entertainment and sports,
Oh, I have. So aren't they useful?
The media celebrities, by twisting around their bodies on our TV screens and singing something, entertain us, provide easy music, hot asses and light news to discuss, giving us a break from our meaningless existence.
Way more useful than an IQ=150 genius solving puzzles and cheating on quiz shows.

The athletes provide their local and national teams with victories and prizes, massively boosting the spirit and morale of the winning nation.
Way more useful than an IQ=160 walking computer reading law books and filing copyright infringement lawsuits.


Of course, that's not to say all MENSA members waste their intelligence, far from all, not the majority perhaps even. Some are doing it right (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asia_Carrera). Some make their intellectual abilities serve the public good (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred_Hinds).
But being intelligent or smart per se is useless.


or the golden parachutes doled out to corporate executives who've run companies into the ground.
The golden parachutes were part of their compensation package. And what did they get the package for? For, originally, doing a good job. The big shareholders wanted MORE PROFIT and that meant more risk - but as the government kept a policy to bail out whoever failed, high risk was a win-win decision. The CEO, much less the lesser executives, is just a person who decides how to better serve his owners' will.
They did it well. All until someone failed so hard that the government could no longer bail them out. Oops.

But the CEO were smart folks (no less than Mensans, I think), so they did the same thing unionized workers do - demanded a failsafe compensation package.
Would I demand such a package it if I was one of them? Totally. I want to be sure they don't threaten me with firing if I don't follow their exact whim, or if they do, their loss.

Of course there are people who may not have a high IQ who are interested in the same subjects as us. Many of them can hold a decent conversation on the matter at hand. I just would rather have some time to talk to a person who was more of an intellectual (not personal worth) equal.
Oh my.

Do you seriously believe you're being mindblowingly elitist here?




You're looking down on the non-Mensan untermenschen like a royalty on paupers. "Many of them I could talk to, but I would rather be with equals."

Oh my.

Do you seriously believe you're being mindblowingly elitist here?




You're looking down on the non-Mensan untermenschen like a royalty on paupers. "Many of them I could talk to, but I would rather be with equals."

It's a human trait though isn't it? To be with, to communicate with others like ourselves.

It's a human trait though isn't it? To be with, to communicate with others like ourselves.
By that logic, I should never come to NSG, for it is full of liberals and left-totalitarians. Rather, I then should only hang out with white, male, heterosexual, monogamous, dark-haired, conservative-voting, ex-military, truck-driving multiple gun owners of specific age and education.

But why not just hang out with the mirror then, seeing as I still reflect in it? To that end drill a hole in it, although that would probably disqualify me as heterosexual.

It's perhaps human instinct to seek others like you, but it's much more educational and useful for personal growth to communicate with people who are different. Who come from different backgrounds, hold different views (as long as they aren't grossly incompatible), have a different life, and think in a different way.



You think it's likely that someone with an IQ < 110 (I'm stretching to be fair) is going to be a neurologist? My guess is their IQ will be above 120 or so
...But the most interesting doctors to talk to are still forensic pathologists. And even a mere coroner can liven up the conversation like no neurologist could ever hope to.

By that logic, I should never come to NSG, for it is full of liberals and left-totalitarians. Rather, I then should only hang out with white, male, heterosexual, monogamous, dark-haired, conservative-voting, ex-military, truck-driving multiple gun owners of specific age and education.

But why not just hang out with the mirror then, seeing as I still reflect in it? To that end drill a hole in it, although that would probably disqualify me as heterosexual.

It's perhaps human instinct to seek others like you, but it's much more educational and useful for personal growth to communicate with people who are different. Who come from different backgrounds, hold different views (as long as they aren't grossly incompatible), have a different life, and think in a different way.




...But the most interesting doctors to talk to are still forensic pathologists. And even a mere coroner can liven up the conversation like no neurologist could ever hope to.

Now now, did I say explicitly? No I do not belive I did.

Yes of course we all have freinds from all sort of places, of all sorts of stature and mindsets. But come on be honest, I bet you are more comfatable hanging with people that share somethings in common with you?

And what if is is eliteism, what does that word mean, why the negativity about it?

I personly keep right away from bigots, just have nowt to do with them. In fact a few years back, in a pub, I spotted a tall long haired blonde bloke at the bar wearing a pendant that I reconised as marking him as a memebr of the Asatru faith. Since I was getting meself another beer I pointed to this and spoke to the man, the very first words out of his mouth where along the lines of 'I'm only into it becouse of the race issues' I shrugged and just left him alone.

That was me being eliteist, and I'm bloody glad of it.

The ability to pass an IQ test, shows only that you are good at passing IQ tests. It has no real baring on ones intelect.

Uh...so? I've kinda been agreeing with that the whole thread.

Uh...so? I've kinda been agreeing with that the whole thread.

Hah ah! So we agree! Man I'm having a strange sorta day here!:D

I have to disagree. I have had in-depth conversations with neurologists, biologists, and people in other specialized scientific/medical fields, and while of course I don't perfectly understand every single thing they say (because I don't have years of both college and real-life experience in those areas), I can converse fairly easily with them, in no small part due to the fact that when they explain something I don't know about, I can understand them. I'm not a genius, but I'm pretty smart (smart enough to be in MENSA, not smart enough to be in most of those more exclusive ones, I'd say). Someone who is generally intelligent, who can take in and sort information in a way that allows her/him to make logical connections, is more likely to be able to talk to others on a higher level regardless of the subject.

If those people were polite, and I have no reasons to believe they were not, then they downgraded the style of their communication. They probably dropped the jargon and discussed matters that were comprehensible by you.

I have a study somewhere in some journal (peer-reviewed I assure you) that shows that people mostly marry others within 10 points of their own IQ. I can't find it, so it's neither here nor there, but it seems people tend to associate with people with similar IQ's without tests.


I don't believe the 10 points story and this for several reasons.

ALL IQ tests have an average standard error of 5% and some tests are even worse.
This is indicating that one with an IQ of 100 is actual having an IQ between 95 and 105). This is overlapping ‘your’ 10 points rule.

I certainly believe that, in general, people marry other people with more or less the same intelligence, but since IQ tests are not measuring all facets of an intellect it can not be used as a benchmark.

I don't believe the 10 points story and this for several reasons.

ALL IQ tests have an average standard error of 5% and some tests are even worse.
This is indicating that one with an IQ of 100 is actual having an IQ between 95 and 105). This is overlapping ‘your’ 10 points rule.

I certainly believe that, in general, people marry other people with more or less the same intelligence, but since IQ tests are not measuring all facets of an intellect it can not be used as a benchmark.

First of all it's not "my story" it's a study that I have somewhere that someone else did. I don't remember the methodology but I'm pretty sure they gave them all the same IQ test. (it wouldn't be much of a study with self reported IQs now would it?)

I don't have a "10 points rule", I was talking about something someone else noticed during a study they did.

I never said that IQ tests measure all facets of intellect and the fact that you keep repeating it when nobody said that leads me to believe you just yammer on to hear yourself talk.

Oh my.

Do you seriously believe you're being mindblowingly elitist here?




You're looking down on the non-Mensan untermenschen like a royalty on paupers. "Many of them I could talk to, but I would rather be with equals."

Twist all you want, but like I said my friend base is diverse. I am friends with doctors, welders, cooks, teachers, bus drivers, secretaries, etc. Mensa gives people who happen to share a commonality the ability to get together with one another. By saying that most people who are not in Mensa could hold a reasonable conversation I'm not also saying that the rest of them are morons. My friend the welder is great to talk to about football, boxing, tattoos, and a variety of other things. If I want to talk about Spanish imperialism and it's effect on the modern world he would not be the one to talk to. First, I know him well enough to know he'd be bored as hell byu the subject. Recognizing that people are different does not make me an elitist. I love this guy like a brother and would gladly die to protect him (although he's tough enough on his own). He's not coming to the Mensa meetings with me and I'm not going to Ozzfest type music festivals with him. He could talk circles around me about rock/metal. He has specific content knowledge and I still have a higher IQ.

I know one pimp personally (not just as a customer). It is the lack of buying power.

Just for a mental experiment, calculate how many hos should work for a pimp if he's to make a profit of the scale to afford a really expensive car. And for a measure keep in mind that people generally buy cars that cost less than their yearly income.

And a pimped-out Caddy is the benchmark of inconspicuousness? Man, being conspicuous is the whole point.


Don 'Magic' Juan has a Rolls-Royce. Don't tell me he doesn't know his stylin'.

...I was joking. I didn't think this was going to be an honest-to-god discussion.

Yes, most people can't afford Rolls. They're prohibitively expensive. But thanks for breaking that down using small words, so my tiny woman brain can understand. :rolleyes:

By that logic, I should never come to NSG, for it is full of liberals and left-totalitarians. Rather, I then should only hang out with white, male, heterosexual, monogamous, dark-haired, conservative-voting, ex-military, truck-driving multiple gun owners of specific age and education.

Well, it's one way to keep those genes in check.

It's perhaps human instinct to seek others like you, but it's much more educational and useful for personal growth to communicate with people who are different. Who come from different backgrounds, hold different views (as long as they aren't grossly incompatible), have a different life, and think in a different way.

And even more educational to communicate with people who are different and tell them their way of thinking is wrong. I see much personal growth there.

First of all it's not "my story" it's a study that I have somewhere that someone else did. I don't remember the methodology but I'm pretty sure they gave them all the same IQ test. (it wouldn't be much of a study with self reported IQs now would it?)

I don't have a "10 points rule", I was talking about something someone else noticed during a study they did.

I never said that IQ tests measure all facets of intellect and the fact that you keep repeating it when nobody said that leads me to believe you just yammer on to hear yourself talk.

I never said it was your story. Did you mention the parantheses around 'you'?

It doesn't matter if they gave all people the same IQ test. Like I said before, all IQ test do have an average standard error of at least 5%. And even that 5% could bias 'your' statement.

The "10 points rule" is just a very short summary for your posting.

No, you didn't directly said that IQ tests are measuring all concepts of intelligence, but at least you do suggest that Mensa members are more sophisticated than other people.

And please can you drop the personal attacks, next time?

I don't know how relevant it is to the thread, but I like this quote:

"People who boast about their IQ are losers."
-- Professor Stephen Hawking

I never said it was your story. Did you mention the parantheses around 'you'?

It doesn't matter if they gave all people the same IQ test. Like I said before, all IQ test do have an average standard error of at least 5%. And even that 5% could bias 'your' statement.

The "10 points rule" is just a very short summary for your posting.

No, you didn't directly said that IQ tests are measuring all concepts of intelligence, but at least you do suggest that Mensa members are more sophisticated than other people.

And please can you drop the personal attacks, next time?

I don't believe I ever suggested that Mensa members were more "anything" than anyone, especially more sophisticated.

I'd like you to quit saying that I said things I didn't and to quit tearing down strawmen.

I don't believe I ever suggested that Mensa members were more "anything" than anyone, especially more sophisticated.

I'd like you to quit saying that I said things I didn't and to quit tearing down strawmen.

It's a good way to weed out people you don't want to hang out with.

Well, it's arbitrary to the max, I don't know if it's silly though. The cut off has to be somewhere.....to be a true "high IQ society" which it is, if it didn't have a cutoff then it wouldn't be what it is.

....


Of course it's elitism. Everything is. Just like those pesky universities who look at your test scores, or those annoying hospitals who want their doctors to pass the boards.......etc.

...

Because all of my life is spent rearranging polygons and I have no other interests at all? Or because the way my brain works in order to make me able to reorganize polygons is exactly the way everyone else's brain works and because everyone gets my jokes? My brain is weird, it's not normal, hanging out with people who have the same kind of brain malfunction is fun for me.

The fact that I've already joked at least 20 times in this thread and you and others have taken me seriously........proves my point.

He says he has a high IQ, and that by his estimation he would "probably qualify"....to tell you the truth, everyone thinks they would "probably qualify" for MENSA.


I really believe you're at Mensa. The few others I know, all have problems with synonyms, similar expressions, etc... It have to be binary and exactly. 1 or 0... :)

It's a good way to weed out people you don't want to hang out with.- taken out of context, I meant (and clarified later) the people who would brag about being in Mensa like it meant something

Well, it's arbitrary to the max, I don't know if it's silly though. The cut off has to be somewhere.....to be a true "high IQ society" which it is, if it didn't have a cutoff then it wouldn't be what it is.- also taken out of context, I was saying "yes I agree" that the top 2% score is arbitrary, although if you're going to have a high IQ society at some point you have to declare what high IQ entails so it's not silly for a high IQ society to have some form of cutoff.

Of course it's elitism. Everything is. Just like those pesky universities who look at your test scores, or those annoying hospitals who want their doctors to pass the boards.......etc. - and again, trying to fend off the "it's elitism, prove it isn't" crowd. Of course it's elitism. Nobody is arguing it's not, it's just not the same kind of insidious elitism you think it is. Any time you are in a group that doesn't accept someone as a member you're being an elitist.

Because all of my life is spent rearranging polygons and I have no other interests at all? Or because the way my brain works in order to make me able to reorganize polygons is exactly the way everyone else's brain works and because everyone gets my jokes? My brain is weird, it's not normal, hanging out with people who have the same kind of brain malfunction is fun for me.- and again, out of context. I don't spend my life rearranging polygons with my Mensa friends, in fact most of my time is not spent with my Mensa friends, I see them maybe once a month. The rest of the time I spend it with everyone else. Claiming that my brain is weird is not claiming that non-Mensans are less sophisticated.

The fact that I've already joked at least 20 times in this thread and you and others have taken me seriously........proves my point.- I'm not sure how this says "everyone in Mensa is less sophisticated" when what I said was Vault 10 didn't get my jokes.......it seems to say that Vault 10 didn't get my jokes, nothing about sophistication at all.

He says he has a high IQ, and that by his estimation he would "probably qualify"....to tell you the truth, everyone thinks they would "probably qualify" for MENSA.- not taking self reported intelligence on the internet as verified fact, does not point to me thinking people who aren't in Mensa are less sophisticated.

Here's a quick list of things people lie about on the internet-
their penis size
their education
their jobs (I'm a lawyer!, etc.)
their experience (I work in that industry so I know you're a poo-poo head)
their gender (there are no girls on the internet. the men are men, the girls are men, and the girls interested in you are Chris Hansen)

You are either woefully illiterate or being intellectually dishonest, I'm guessing the second from my previous interactions with you.

It's a good way to weed out people you don't want to hang out with.- taken out of context, I meant (and clarified later) the people who would brag about being in Mensa like it meant something

Well, it's arbitrary to the max, I don't know if it's silly though. The cut off has to be somewhere.....to be a true "high IQ society" which it is, if it didn't have a cutoff then it wouldn't be what it is.- also taken out of context, I was saying "yes I agree" that the top 2% score is arbitrary, although if you're going to have a high IQ society at some point you have to declare what high IQ entails so it's not silly for a high IQ society to have some form of cutoff.

Of course it's elitism. Everything is. Just like those pesky universities who look at your test scores, or those annoying hospitals who want their doctors to pass the boards.......etc. - and again, trying to fend off the "it's elitism, prove it isn't" crowd. Of course it's elitism. Nobody is arguing it's not, it's just not the same kind of insidious elitism you think it is. Any time you are in a group that doesn't accept someone as a member you're being an elitist.

Because all of my life is spent rearranging polygons and I have no other interests at all? Or because the way my brain works in order to make me able to reorganize polygons is exactly the way everyone else's brain works and because everyone gets my jokes? My brain is weird, it's not normal, hanging out with people who have the same kind of brain malfunction is fun for me.- and again, out of context. I don't spend my life rearranging polygons with my Mensa friends, in fact most of my time is not spent with my Mensa friends, I see them maybe once a month. The rest of the time I spend it with everyone else. Claiming that my brain is weird is not claiming that non-Mensans are less sophisticated.

The fact that I've already joked at least 20 times in this thread and you and others have taken me seriously........proves my point.- I'm not sure how this says "everyone in Mensa is less sophisticated" when what I said was Vault 10 didn't get my jokes.......it seems to say that Vault 10 didn't get my jokes, nothing about sophistication at all.

He says he has a high IQ, and that by his estimation he would "probably qualify"....to tell you the truth, everyone thinks they would "probably qualify" for MENSA.- not taking self reported intelligence on the internet as verified fact, does not point to me thinking people who aren't in Mensa are less sophisticated.

Here's a quick list of things people lie about on the internet-
their penis size
their education
their jobs (I'm a lawyer!, etc.)
their experience (I work in that industry so I know you're a poo-poo head)
their gender (there are no girls on the internet. the men are men, the girls are men, and the girls interested in you are Chris Hansen)

You are either woefully illiterate or being intellectually dishonest, I'm guessing the second from my previous interactions with you.

You forgot one:

their IQ scores!

It could be that I'm illiterate or whatever, but I know when one starts to insult another that usually he has no arguments.

It's easy to say 'yes, all out of context'. Well, you created that specific context. A context pointing that Mensa is for sophisticated people. At least for me and some other people around.

Btw, I don't see anything at all wrong with the word sophisticated either. It's not swearing or personal attacking some one.

You forgot one:

their IQ scores!

It could be that I'm illiterate or whatever, but I know when one starts to insult another that usually he has no arguments.

It's easy to say 'yes, all out of context'. Well, you created that specific context. A context pointing that Mensa is for sophisticated people. At least for me and some other people around.

Btw, I don't see anything at all wrong with the word sophisticated either. It's not swearing or personal attacking some one.

If you feel I've insulted you, please report the post to moderation. Otherwise quit implying that I did.

I did not imply that Mensa is for sophisticated people, you have failed to show that I have, please quit saying I did.

If you feel I've insulted you, please report the post to moderation. Otherwise quit implying that I did.

I did not imply that Mensa is for sophisticated people, you have failed to show that I have, please quit saying I did.

Why should I go to the mods? For this?
And then? What would happen? Nothing? And even if they consider it as insulting, what’s next? A 24 hour ban or something? And that would feel me better? That’s not in my character.

You don't have by instance to suggest, cleverly, that I'm illiterate. Which is a mild insult.

I learned a few real nice things of you. And it is somehow sad that you are starting to insult me. Even if I feel that you are suggesting that Mensa is for sophisticated people, you can explain in a normal tone it's not. Without the insults. I always could have misunderstood your intentions.

Why should I go to the mods? For this?
And then? What would happen? Nothing? And even if they consider it as insulting, what’s next? A 24 hour ban or something? And that would feel me better? That’s not in my character.

You don't have by instance to suggest, cleverly, that I'm illiterate. Which is a mild insult.

I learned a few real nice things of you. And it is somehow sad that you are starting to insult me. Even if I feel that you are suggesting that Mensa is for sophisticated people, you can explain in a normal tone it's not. Without the insults. I always could have misunderstood your intentions.

1. I didn't insult you.
2. Quit saying I did.
3. I didn't say Mensa was for sophisticated people (which is quit different than your original claim that people who aren't in Mensa are unsophisticated, I didn't say that either)
4. Quit saying I did.

If you feel I've insulted you, please report it to the mods, if you do not feel I have insulted you, please quit saying I did.

1. I didn't insult you.
2. Quit saying I did.
3. I didn't say Mensa was for sophisticated people (which is quit different than your original claim that people who aren't in Mensa are unsophisticated, I didn't say that either)
4. Quit saying I did.

If you feel I've insulted you, please report it to the mods, if you do not feel I have insulted you, please quit saying I did.


"You are either woefully illiterate or being intellectually dishonest, I'm guessing the second from my previous interactions with you."

I think this is a mild insult.

"You are either woefully illiterate or being intellectually dishonest, I'm guessing the second from my previous interactions with you."

I think this is a mild insult.

Then report it. Alternatively, you could just stop inventing strawmen and pretending Smunkee said them, at which point she probably wouldn't accuse you of making up things she didn't say.

1. I didn't insult you.
2. Quit saying I did.
3. I didn't say Mensa was for sophisticated people (which is quit different than your original claim that people who aren't in Mensa are unsophisticated, I didn't say that either)
4. Quit saying I did.

If you feel I've insulted you, please report it to the mods, if you do not feel I have insulted you, please quit saying I did.

And I didn't say that. I said this:

Point is Mensa is trying to attract smart people. To block the so called dumb ones, they use an IQ test. Problem is that an IQ test isn't measuring intelligence, but a minor part of it. It doesn't test creativity, originality, lateral thinking, empathy and so many other things which are related with intelligence.

Look at the so called. In this context it means that they are not necessarily dumb.

Then report it. Alternatively, you could just stop inventing strawmen and pretending Smunkee said them, at which point she probably wouldn't accuse you of making up things she didn't say.

Do you consider it as an insult when someone would say:

"Or you are dumb, ugly and fat or you are having a bad hairday. Given previous bad hairdays, I guess it is the second"*

* In no means I actual think you are dumb, ugly, fat or having a bad hair day. Any similarity with reality is a mere coincidence

And I didn't say that. I said this:

Point is Mensa is trying to attract smart people. To block the so called dumb ones, they use an IQ test. Problem is that an IQ test isn't measuring intelligence, but a minor part of it. It doesn't test creativity, originality, lateral thinking, empathy and so many other things which are related with intelligence.

Look at the so called. In this context it means that they are not necessarily dumb.
Ugh. :headbang:

Ugh. :headbang:

Sorry :)

This kind of oversensitivity almost makes me miss the days when 10% of posts were deleted by mods for flaming and crazies ran through the forum sowing discord until their inevitable forumban (or 'DEAT' as it was known, since it was common enough to have its own NationStates slang).

Do you consider it as an insult when someone would say:

"Or you are dumb, ugly and fat or you are having a bad hairday. Given previous bad hairdays, I guess it is the second"*


If you think you've been insulted, report it. Bitching about it here isn't going to accomplish anything.

If you think you've been insulted, report it. Bitching about it here isn't going to accomplish anything.

I already said several times I would not do.

But, why are you not answering my question?

I'll tell you why. Smunkeeville is an old member. Old members protect other old members. Old members have privileges.

If I would do the same what he is doing then I already received my ***Warning*** message in my mailbox.

You know what, I will probably receive a ban or a warning because I have upset our old member with nasty questions.

I saw it before. :)

I already said several times I would not do.

But, why are you not answering my question?

Because it is a stupid question, and not relevant to the situation.

I'll tell you why. Smunkeeville is an old member. Old members protect other old members. Old members have privileges.

If I would do the same what he is doing then I already received my ***Warning*** message in my mailbox.

You know what, I will probably receive a ban or a warning because I have upset our old member with nasty questions.

I saw it before. :)

......wow. I think this it the first time I've seriously seen NSG compared to the mob. Hey, Smunkee, did you know that all the mods love and protect you? :p

......wow. I think this it the first time I've seriously seen NSG compared to the mob. Hey, Smunkee, did you know that all the mods love and protect you? :p

That must be why Fris keeps banning my ass. :p

Because it is a stupid question, and not relevant to the situation.

Stupid questions do not exist. You have to look in the answers.




......wow. I think this it the first time I've seriously seen NSG compared to the mob. Hey, Smunkee, did you know that all the mods love and protect you? :p

Voila. Old members protect old members.

That must be why Fris keeps banning my ass. :p

Maybe he failed on the Mensa test and now doesn’t like all and everything involved with Mensa. :)

Maybe he failed on the Mensa test and now doesn’t like all and everything involved with Mensa. :)

Nah, I'm pretty sure it was because I broke the rules.

......wow. I think this it the first time I've seriously seen NSG compared to the mob. Hey, Smunkee, did you know that all the mods love and protect you? :p

Speaking of which, you both are still overdue on your donation in order to make sure that nothing happens to you.


I've never been banned yet, but it's not because I'm an old member. It's because I'm a sweet innocent southern boy who would never ever break the rules.

Nah, I'm pretty sure it was because I broke the rules.

Ok, can you give an example why they banned you? :)

Ok, can you give an example why they banned you? :)

Once for image spam, and once for flaming. I got a red card I think a while back for telling someone to "fuck off".

Speaking of which, you both are still overdue on your donation in order to make sure that nothing happens to you.


I've never been banned yet, but it's not because I'm an old member. It's because I'm a sweet innocent southern boy who would never ever break the rules.

In our country, we call that a pussy.* :)

*: I don't think you're a pussy. Any similarity with reality is a mere coincidence

Once for image spam, and once for flaming. I got a red card I think a while back for telling someone to "fuck off".

Which isn't fair, I think. Because so many people say 'fuck off' on this board and nothing happens.

Or you said it to a mod? :)

Which isn't fair, I think. Because so many people say 'fuck off' on this board and nothing happens.

Or you said it to a mod? :)

I said it to someone who reported it. The thing is, it's not cool to tell people to fuck off here, but the mods are way busy and very underpaid, so unless you report it, they don't know it happens.

I'm a mod on another board, people whine in thread about "will a mod please shut this down?" except I don't read all the threads.....so unless they tell me directly (via mod forum or pm) I don't know it's even going on.

If I get away with anything it's because people don't report it. IF you think I did something wrong, report it.

I said it to someone who reported it. The thing is, it's not cool to tell people to fuck off here, but the mods are way busy and very underpaid, so unless you report it, they don't know it happens.

I'm a mod on another board, people whine in thread about "will a mod please shut this down?" except I don't read all the threads.....so unless they tell me directly (via mod forum or pm) I don't know it's even going on.

If I get away with anything it's because people don't report it. IF you think I did something wrong, report it.

No, trust me, I will not. Even if you beg, I still would not. :)

I get my orgasm in another way. :)
I don't understand why people ran to the mods for these kind of things.

In the heat of a debate people sometimes say things they rarely use. So I respect that. If I feel being insulted, I just ask the insulter to stop. Mostly they stop after a while. And if they don't then I can still ignore them.

And I know that sometimes I push too hard. So I understand that people start the insults. :)

Ugh. :headbang:

It's okay. HK has that effect.

I already said several times I would not do.

And yet you keep complaining that you're being insulted. You either must take your complaint to Moderation OR stop whining. I know you won't do either, but that's the way you want to be. Asking them to stop doesn't work because -- and I've seen this in several threads now -- you keep pulling out the "you're insulting me" card and playing it when you've not even come close to an insult. You're crying wolf, Peter.

Something in your behavior suggests -- merely suggests, mind you -- that you just might enjoy aggravating others with your deny-complain-dodge behavior. That might be why you were banned -- I never saw that particular Modly intervention itself, just the thread in which it was mentioned.

It's okay. HK has that effect.



And yet you keep complaining that you're being insulted. You either must take your complaint to Moderation OR stop whining. I know you won't do either, but that's the way you want to be. Asking them to stop doesn't work because -- and I've seen this in several threads now -- you keep pulling out the "you're insulting me" card and playing it when you've not even come close to an insult. You're crying wolf, Peter.

Something in your behavior suggests -- merely suggests, mind you -- that you just might enjoy aggravating others with your deny-complain-dodge behavior. That might be why you were banned -- I never saw that particular Modly intervention itself, just the thread in which it was mentioned.


You already demolished another thread with your pointless assumptions. Smunkeeville doesn't need your support. She is smart enough to care on her own.

Can we return to the topic or let us burry the thread, no?

You already demolished another thread with your pointless assumptions. Smunkeeville doesn't need your support. She is smart enough to care on her own.

Can we return to the topic or let us burry the thread, no?

You're right -- Smunkee doesn't need help. You, however, seem to.

You're right -- Smunkee doesn't need help. You, however, seem to.

Why should I need help?

Mix one dash with two ounces of whiskey and five ounces of cola, and it makes a great cocktail.

Somehow I don't think that's what he meant... :p
Though that does sound like something worth trying. :)

He has specific content knowledge and I still have a higher IQ.
And that is exactly why people rightly see the Mensans as elitist. This statement, more specifically the presence of "still" in it, implies that your higher IQ is more important than his specific knowledge, so you are, overall, better than he is.

And that is exactly why people rightly see the Mensans as elitist. This statement, more specifically the presence of "still" in it, implies that your higher IQ is more important than his specific knowledge, so you are, overall, better than he is.

This is one of the silliest arguments I've ever heard. Would "He's much better at basketball than I am, but I'm still taller" also imply elitism? How about "He's a better person than I am in every way, but I'm still fairly nice?"

This is one of the silliest arguments I've ever heard. Would "He's much better at basketball than I am, but I'm still taller" also imply elitism? How about "He's a better person than I am in every way, but I'm still fairly nice?"
These are different, because here you're comparing things of the same type - being nice or being good for basketball (height being perceived as a key requirement). And by the way the first sentence sounds dumb.

A better analogy would be "He knows some sex positions, but I still have a longer penis."

These are different, because here you're comparing things of the same type - being nice or being good for basketball (height being perceived as a key requirement). And by the way the first sentence sounds dumb.

Intelligence is often perceived as a requirement for knowledge, too. Hence the comparison. Regardless, both examples make the meaning of "still" fairly clear, without the strange implications you've added in your head.

I'm not sure why it "sounds dumb" to you, but thanks for sharing.

A better analogy would be "He knows some sex positions, but I still have a longer penis."

That is also a fairly good analogy, especially since anyone with half a brain knows that the former matters a lot more than the latter.

I'm not sure why it "sounds dumb" to you, but thanks for sharing.
Normally it would be "I'm taller, but he's still better at basketball", since height causes being good at basketball, not the other way around.


That is also a fairly good analogy, especially since anyone with half a brain knows that the former matters a lot more than the latter.
Just like anyone not in MENSA knows that knowledge matters more than the IQ test results.

Why should I need help?

Relaxing and letting things go, for starters. Not imagining insults where none exist. Not misrepresenting others by claiming they said something they didn't and not dodging (and denying posted, verified evidence) when someone catches you doing it. Not being insanely defensive overall. Not advocating censorship.

We've all got our problems, but you're kinda broadcasting yours. I'm no psychologist, but I'd say that sounds like a call for help.

Normally it would be "I'm taller, but he's still better at basketball", since height causes being good at basketball, not the other way around.

Only with your nonsensical added interpretation that the second clause has to be the one that MATTERS.

Just like anyone not in MENSA knows that knowledge matters more than the IQ test results.

I'd love to see you link to any of the MENSA members in this thread alleging that IQ objectively "matters" more than knowledge. Burn, strawman, burn!

The fact is, they are simply two separate but related traits, and arguing that one is objectively more important than the other is simply nonsensical. If you are being asked about the dates of battles in the US Civil War, knowledge of Civil War history is going to be much more useful than a high IQ. If you are trying to solve a logic puzzle, a high IQ is going to be much more useful than knowledge of Civil War history. Which one "matters" is entirely conditional on what you are trying to do.

As I said over on one of the NSG spinoff forums, I have a very high IQ. I am also short, long-haired, bad at sports, and a good singer. I do not think any one of those traits matters more than the rest; they are all simply parts of who I am, and I see no more reason to object to MENSA for bringing together people who have high IQs than to the NFL for bringing together people who are good at football or to choirs for bringing together people with nice singing voices. If we're not shrieking at football teams and choirs for being "elitist" by not letting in the butterfingered and the tone-deaf, why on earth is MENSA "elitist"?

why on earth is MENSA "elitist"?

Because IQ tests have fuck all to do with intelligence.

As I said over on one of the NSG spinoff forums, I have a very high IQ. I am also short, long-haired, bad at sports, and a good singer. I do not think any one of those traits matters more than the rest; they are all simply parts of who I am, and I see no more reason to object to MENSA for bringing together people who have high IQs than to the NFL for bringing together people who are good at football or to choirs for bringing together people with nice singing voices. If we're not shrieking at football teams and choirs for being "elitist" by not letting in the butterfingered and the tone-deaf, why on earth is MENSA "elitist"?

if I might offer my own opinion - Nobody likes to be considered 'not smart', but many people could care less about sport. And many people conflate having a not sky-high IQ with also not being smart (this is obviously untrue). So if someone applies for mensa but finds their IQ does not meet the entry requirements, they might take it as a 'no. go away. We're FAR too smart for you. Because you're -stupid-' Which -would- come across as elitist. It certainly might hurt feelings. And when peoples feelings are hurt (or people perceive their feelings could be hurt were it to happen to them) the accusations of elitism fly.

Because IQ tests have fuck all to do with intelligence.

Presuming this was true, this is a relevant answer to her question...how?

if I might offer my own opinion - Nobody likes to be considered 'not smart', but many people could care less about sport. And many people conflate having a not sky-high IQ with also not being smart (this is obviously untrue). So if someone applies for mensa but finds their IQ does not meet the entry requirements, they might take it as a 'no. go away. We're FAR too smart for you. Because you're -stupid-' Which -would- come across as elitist. It certainly might hurt feelings. And when peoples feelings are hurt (or people perceive their feelings could be hurt were it to happen to them) the accusations of elitism fly.

Well, that's the thing. If one honestly doesn't think IQ matters, then one presumably isn't going to be particularly upset to discover that one's IQ isn't in the top 2% of the population. I don't really see how anyone can rationally make the argument "IQ doesn't matter, and it's totally unfair and upsetting that you don't think mine is high enough!"

Well, that's the thing. If one honestly doesn't think IQ matters, then one presumably isn't going to be particularly upset to discover that one's IQ isn't in the top 2% of the population. I don't really see how anyone can rationally make the argument "IQ doesn't matter, and it's totally unfair and upsetting that you don't think mine is high enough!"

It's the conflation that mensa = 'the smart peoples' society as well as 'high IQ' society. And the fact that rationality doesn't enter into things when people are busy being angry! Grr. :D

Only with your nonsensical added interpretation that the second clause has to be the one that MATTERS.
Well, it seems like our minds indeed work differently - mine might give more priority to the popular usage and more emphasis to the finer detail. There are no two truly equivalent sentences. Every choice of words or their order carries meaning.


I'd love to see you link to any of the MENSA members in this thread alleging that IQ objectively "matters" more than knowledge.
Read a couple pages back, when a Mensan considers other Mensans their intellectual equals, and others not.

This kind of arrogance is exactly why people don't like MENSA. It's one thing to internally take into account that you have a better working logical and cognitive functions than someone else. It's another to openly flaunt being in MENSA or position it as a sign of intellectual superiority over the mortals. And yes, not all Mensans do it; one in a few is enough to give the whole group a bad reputation.


and I see no more reason to object to MENSA for bringing together people who have high IQs
Me neither. I only dislike it when people start feeling all superior about this. It's no smarter than feeling superior about your penis size. I too have a high IQ, but I don't look down on others because of it. It's stupid, the power of mine or yours or anyone else's built-in calculator doesn't make one a better person than another, it's no criterion to discriminate by outside of work.

I get the feeling someone got rejected from MENSA.

Bitter much?

The day I apply to join the MENSA ubermenschen will be the day I join the Neonazi.

The very thoughts of either disgust me to nearly equal extent.

I don't know about the lack of a link between IQ and intelligence.

On a proper IQ-type test when at secondary school (not one of the internet tests where everyone has an IQ of over 120) I got below 90. Now, I'm pretty fucking stupid. Ergo, IQ must be an accurate measure of intelligence. Please forgive me if there's an error in my logic, I am, after all, not very clever :p

The day I apply to join the MENSA ubermenschen will be the day I join the Neonazi.

The very thoughts of either disgust me to nearly equal extent.

suuuuure they do. You know, the trick isn't making us believe. It's making yourself believe. It's ok though, we understand. Not everybody can make the cut. Just don't have the brains.

But don't worry, it doesn't make you any less of a person.

Now, I'm pretty fucking stupid.

I beg to differ.

suuuuure they do. You know, the trick isn't making us believe. It's making yourself believe. It's ok though, we understand. Not everybody can make the cut. Just don't have the brains.

But don't worry, it doesn't make you any less of a person.

Out of interest, are you in MENSA?

Well, it seems like our minds indeed work differently - mine might give more priority to the popular usage and more emphasis to the finer detail. There are no two truly equivalent sentences. Every choice of words or their order carries meaning.

I do not think the "popular usage" of "still" is "but what's really important is." I think that's simply the "Vault 10 trying to pretend that acknowledging a particular fact about oneself is inherently arrogant" usage.

Read a couple pages back, when a Mensan considers other Mensans their intellectual equals, and others not.

First, that's not what I asked for. Second, I'd like to see you quote where she said, "People in MENSA are my intellectual equals, and non-MENSA members are not," because that's not what I remember reading.

Heck, I'll even make it extra easy on you. I'm not in MENSA. Smunkee, do you think you're intellectually superior to me? :p

This kind of arrogance is exactly why people don't like MENSA. It's one thing to internally take into account that you have a better working logical and cognitive functions than someone else. It's another to openly flaunt being in MENSA or position it as a sign of intellectual superiority over the mortals. And yes, not all Mensans do it; one in a few is enough to give the whole group a bad reputation.

Ooh, she's so arrogant! She openly admits to being in clubs that she is in, instead of being ashamed of them or something! How dare she?!

The more you argue, the less it sounds like anything but sour grapes.


Me neither. I only dislike it when people start feeling all superior about this. It's no smarter than feeling superior about your penis size. I too have a high IQ, but I don't look down on others because of it. It's stupid, the power of mine or yours or anyone else's built-in calculator doesn't make one a better person than another, it's no criterion to discriminate by outside of work.

It's a good thing that MENSA has never claimed to be a club of "better people," then, isn't it?

I don't know about the lack of a link between IQ and intelligence.

On a proper IQ-type test when at secondary school (not one of the internet tests where everyone has an IQ of over 120) I got below 90. Now, I'm pretty fucking stupid. Ergo, IQ must be an accurate measure of intelligence. Please forgive me if there's an error in my logic, I am, after all, not very clever :p


You should probably abstain from trying to get into any group that requires people to be good liars, by the way. :P

Out of interest, are you in MENSA?

are you asking me if I'm a nazi? How DARE you sir?

IQ means fuck all. I have quite a high one, but I'm dumb as shit.

suuuuure they do.
You have seen my pre-test results. 32 out of 33 right, according to their own words, it correlates with a 3 out of 4 chance. Way on the passing side.


Not everybody can make the cut. Just don't have the brains.
Why are you so obsessed with "making the cut"? Feeling insecure? Been bullied in school?

You should probably abstain from trying to get into any group that requires people to be good liars, by the way. :P

Damn. Well I better cross politics off my list of possible future careers.

Goodbye Westminster. Hello welfare!

You have seen my pre-test results. 32 out of 33 right, according to their own words, it correlates with a 3 out of 4 chance. Way on the passing side.



Well I got 34 out of 33 right. Looks like you missed the secret question in invisible ink. Guess you're not mensa material after all.

Why are you so obsessed with "making the cut"?

I'm just curious as to what not being able to feels like. Maybe you could enlighten me?

Damn. Well I better cross politics off my list of possible future careers.

Goodbye Westminster. Hello welfare!

Westminster is full of liars - none of them any good at it :D

Besides, you could convince people that you were a FANTASTIC liar by actually telling the truth. Nobody would expect it. That's my plan anyway, until the violent coup at least.

are you asking me if I'm a nazi? How DARE you sir?

So is that a yes or a no?

First, that's not what I asked for. Second, I'd like to see you quote where she said,
I believe it's a "he".

[QUOTE]Of course there are people who may not have a high IQ who are interested in the same subjects as us. Many of them can hold a decent conversation on the matter at hand. I just would rather have some time to talk to a person who was more of an intellectual (not personal worth) equal.


Heck, I'll even make it extra easy on you. I'm not in MENSA.
Good L-rd, at least one person on this board isn't in MENSA.


It's a good thing that MENSA has never claimed to be a club of "better people," then, isn't it?
It kinda does imply that consistently.

The day I apply to join the MENSA ubermenschen will be the day I join the Neonazi.

The very thoughts of either disgust me to nearly equal extent.

Yeah, I regular check online to make sure the Neonazis would let me join. You know, if I wanted to. Which I totally don't. (Hey, does anyone know where I could find a good quiz on the proper way to beat up Jews? Not that I want to do that or anything, I just want to make sure everyone knows that I COULD if I wanted to. Did I mention I scored a 32/33 on the "How Much Do You Hate Non-Whites?" test?)

Relaxing and letting things go, for starters. Not imagining insults where none exist. Not misrepresenting others by claiming they said something they didn't and not dodging (and denying posted, verified evidence) when someone catches you doing it. Not being insanely defensive overall. Not advocating censorship.

We've all got our problems, but you're kinda broadcasting yours. I'm no psychologist, but I'd say that sounds like a call for help.

You just created assumption #27364!!! Congratulations!!! `

First of all, doing a diagnose on distance is rather silly, dangerous and completely unscientific.

Secondly, you are not a psychologist but you pretend you're one by doing diagnoses.

I am wondering who's in the need of real help. :)

So is that a yes or a no?

you show me yours and I'll show you mine ;)