NationStates Jolt Archive

The world is suffering from overpopulation, and many children desperately need homes. I have decided that if I ever want children, I will only adopt. Does anybody here share my sentiment?

No, I probably wouldn't adopt; I prefer to pass on my own genetic material. When I'm ready. That's just how I feel. There is nothing fundamentally wrong with adopting. It suits some folks better than others.

I felt the same way, but a sense of morbid curiosity as to whether my testicles still functioned got the best of me. :p

The world is suffering from overpopulation

Well, not everyone agrees with this. There are people who argue that there are more than enough resources to go around, but for political reasons this is disallowed. But I'll assume this to be true.


, and many children desperately need homes. I have decided that if I ever want children, I will only adopt. Does anybody here share my sentiment?

Sounds reasonable, although your future wife may not see it that way (assuming you also want to get married to a woman one day).

I would support this. If only people would adopt kids in the U.S. and not from Timbuktudaliwalawalawalawalaland in Africa. There are homeless kids in America, too, people.

I think that's a great idea. Barring any unplanned pregnancies that I might unwittingly contribute genetic material to, I will likely adopt if I ever do have children.

EDIT: This, of course, depends largely on the feelings of any woman that I might be deciding to have children with. If she prefers to have a child that is biologically ours, I will not insist upon adoption.

Sounds reasonable, although your future wife may not see it that way (assuming you also want to get married to a woman one day).

Any prospective mate would have to agree with this before I married her.

No, although I definitely see your point.

If I was ever going to go through the trouble and expense of raising a child, I'd want to have something in return, my little slice of immortality would be cool. Also, I wonder if really adopting is analogous to having your own child, on an emotional level. I would think not.

I would support this. If only people would adopt kids in the U.S. and not from Timbuktudaliwalawalawalawalaland in Africa. There are homeless kids in America, too, people.

Yes, but things are a whole lot shittier in parts of Africa.

It is unfortunate that adopting third-world children is shunned these days.

Yes, but things are a whole lot shittier in parts of Africa.

It is unfortunate that adopting third-world children is shunned these days.

B-but... non-Americans are not real people!

No, although I definitely see your point.

If I was ever going to go through the trouble and expense of raising a child, I'd want to have something in return, my little slice of immortality would be cool. Also, I wonder if really adopting is analogous to having your own child, on an emotional level. I would think not.

Maybe, maybe not. I would actually feel guilty having a kid of my own, knowing how many kids are already looking for homes.

B-but... non-Americans are not real people!

They are little plastic dolls used to get attention and act like a movie-star.

They are little plastic dolls used to get attention and act like a movie-star.

And robots designed to make our shoes for cheap.

Just have your own kid. You can shoot a couple hobos or streetwalkers as a sort of carbon offset later on if you like. Being adopted is shit.

Were I capable of reproduction, desiring of children, (and my sexual orientation inclined me to seek a compatible mate) this would still pose no question for me. I wouldn't want to be part of any creation of new life. Firstly I cannot ask if it wants to be born, I cannot guarantee it quality of life until its death, I cannot guarantee my own ability to parent and I cannot guarantee that the world would not do its utmost to destroy it should it be birthed. Adoption on the other hand to me would be a true chance to fix at least one of the wrongs on Earth and improve a life for the better.

And robots designed to make our shoes for cheap.

Just make sure they do not try to live here, and give us that minimum wage crap. We have enough weasels who want to eat coming-up from Mexico.

Were I capable of reproduction, desiring of children, (and my sexual orientation inclined me to seek a compatible mate) this would still pose no question for me. I wouldn't want to be part of any creation of new life. Firstly I cannot ask if it wants to be born, I cannot guarantee it quality of life until its death, I cannot guarantee my own ability to parent and I cannot guarantee that the world would not do its utmost to destroy it should it be birthed. Adoption on the other hand to me would be a true chance to fix at least one of the wrongs on Earth and improve a life for the better.

Spot-on, Jordaxia.

Just make sure they do not try to live here, and give us that minimum wage crap. We have enough weasels who want to eat coming-up from Mexico.

If we grant them minimum wage, next thing you know they'll want a living wage. Society would be undone!

Were I capable of reproduction, desiring of children, (and my sexual orientation inclined me to seek a compatible mate) this would still pose no question for me. I wouldn't want to be part of any creation of new life. Firstly I cannot ask if it wants to be born, I cannot guarantee it quality of life until its death, I cannot guarantee my own ability to parent and I cannot guarantee that the world would not do its utmost to destroy it should it be birthed. Adoption on the other hand to me would be a true chance to fix at least one of the wrongs on Earth and improve a life for the better.

Aside from your culpability in its birth, the rest of the problems would remain, no? Your parenting abilities, the quality of life you can provide, etc. would be the same as if you'd made the thing yourself.

Also, I wonder if really adopting is analogous to having your own child, on an emotional level. I would think not.

It isn't. The emotional distance that other close relatives have with the kid will be immediately obvious as well. Maybe not obvious to the kid, who might just assume there's something wrong with him/her, but obvious to everyone else.

I wouldn't want to be part of any creation of new life. Firstly I cannot ask if it wants to be born, I cannot guarantee it quality of life until its death, I cannot guarantee my own ability to parent and I cannot guarantee that the world would not do its utmost to destroy it should it be birthed.
How do you get anything achieved with such a pessimistic attitude?

More seriously, how does adoption solve the above?

If we grant them minimum wage, next thing you know they'll want a living wage. Society would be undone!

And they might beat whites in job interviews, just because of something stupid like qualifications. They steal jobs!

How do you get anything achieved with such a pessimistic attitude?

How is it pessimistic? :confused:

More seriously, how does adoption solve the above?

Since she would never have created the child, her conscience would not be troubled over it failing to find success in its later life, despite her best efforts--and whether or not it wanted to be born would not be on her head.

Aside from your culpability in its birth, the rest of the problems would remain, no? Your parenting abilities, the quality of life you can provide, etc. would be the same as if you'd made the thing yourself.



only partially true. Firstly, I am fairly certain I can guarantee I'd be a better parent than nobody at all. I would be able to provide a better quality of life than nobody at all, I'd be able to shield it better and equip it better to cope with a hostile world than nobody at all. Also, it would already be there, unlike creating a new child that would face all of those problems without any consent given whatsoever.

@Chumbly. I have an incredibly optimistic attitude actually, tempered with realism. Why create a new life to face the hostility of the planet when there's one already here that could use a hand?

Eh, I prefer to continue my line. Call it selfish, if you will, but I'd like to have a kid of my own, if the desire to raise a child ever emerges.

I have an incredibly optimistic attitude actually, tempered with realism. Why create a new life to face the hostility of the planet when there's one already here that could use a hand?
Ahh.

I can understand that fine.

only partially true. Firstly, I am fairly certain I can guarantee I'd be a better parent than nobody at all. I would be able to provide a better quality of life than nobody at all, I'd be able to shield it better and equip it better to cope with a hostile world than nobody at all. Also, it would already be there, unlike creating a new child that would face all of those problems without any consent given whatsoever.

@Chumbly. I have an incredibly optimistic attitude actually, tempered with realism. Why create a new life to face the hostility of the planet when there's one already here that could use a hand?

Unless the child you're adopting is a ward of the state, you wouldn't be an alternative to having 'no parent at all.' You'd probably have to wait in line, in fact. There's quite a bit of demand out there for adopted kids, especially with an aging population who have delayed parenthood to the point that it becomes risky. You'd probably be replacing a 40-something couple with loads of cash and some sort of emotional gap to fill.

Unless the child you're adopting is a ward of the state, you wouldn't be an alternative to having 'no parent at all.' You'd probably have to wait in line, in fact. There's quite a bit of demand out there for adopted kids, especially with an aging population who have delayed parenthood to the point that it becomes risky.

There is a substantial amount of homeless children in the world, especially outside the "Western" world. White children are in tremendous demand; the others: not so much.

I blame Genghis Khan for the overpopulation of the earth. Therefore I wlll never adopt any Mongolian warlord :D

There is a substantial amount of homeless children in the world, especially outside the "Western" world. White children are in tremendous demand; the others: not so much.

Most people want a kid who looks like they do. Adopting from Africa or China is fine, but you won't do it. Almost no one does. Adoptees have higher rates of mental illness as it is without dropping them into a foreign culture where they'll be looked at sideways by nearly everyone.

Most people want a kid who looks like they do. Adopting from Africa or China is fine, but you won't do it.

Says who?

Almost no one does.

Because they called attention-whores if they do.

Adoptees have higher rates of mental illness as it is without dropping them into a foreign culture where they'll be looked at sideways by nearly everyone.

If they are raised by their adoptive parents since two (and this is quite possible), why would they be looked at "sideways"?

I blame Genghis Khan for the overpopulation of the earth.

Yeah, well, he made-up for it....

Yes, but things are a whole lot shittier in parts of Africa.

It is unfortunate that adopting third-world children is shunned these days.
It is unfortunate when some white asshole descends upon a third world village with the dream of playing savior to some kid who never asked for it.
The solution to Africa being a shithole isn't to grab the cutest kids now living there.

But that's beside the point. Assuming I was in a relationship where children were an option, I'd probably be in favor of adopting. I'm still not entirely convinced of the rightness of the female reproductive system, and the thought that my significant other had another person growing inside her would give me nightmares.

The world is suffering from overpopulation, and many children desperately need homes. I have decided that if I ever want children, I will only adopt. Does anybody here share my sentiment?
i did think about it long ago before i was a mother.

it never happened because its too much rig-a-ma-roll to go through. all those people needing to evaluate you and your fitness to be a parent. plus there is the feeling of shopping for a child. its kinda creepy really.

there isnt much sense in adopting babies (as a good thing to do for the world) because there are plenty of people who want to adopt babies. but you have no skills in dealing with an older child who has some problems already.

do you, as if you were taking in a rescue dog, take the most needy, most troubled child? you have no idea how much trouble that will bring you. do you take the prettiest/smartest/tallest? those children probably have plenty of takers.

would you look for a local child? would you go to another country (malawi) to get one?

Well, my genes kinda suck, so I'd prefer to avoid passing them on. But on the other hand, when you're selecting someone else's unwanted spawn, how can you be sure that their genes don't suck? It's a catch-22. One possibly best solved by using a sperm bank.

However, as I cannot abide children, the question is moot.

Says who?



Because they called attention-whores if they do.



If they are raised by their adoptive parents since two (and this is quite possible), why would they be looked at "sideways"?

Statistically, people adopt within their own "race." That's just a fact. Adoption rates have dropped like a stone since the '70s in the West because of better access to birth control/"family planning," which means that the few people who do adopt, adopt a small but (as a percentage) slightly-noticeable number of foreign-born babies, but the socio-psychological effects of this have been well-documented. Adopted kids have higher rates of mental-illness, substance abuse and criminality than non-adopted kids, and those numbers are probably greatly unerreported. Whether you're adopting a kid from a third-world country or from down the block, it's a fact that you're contributing to this.

Statistically, people adopt within their own "race." That's just a fact. Adoption rates have dropped like a stone since the '70s in the West because of better access to birth control/"family planning," which means that the few people who do adopt, adopt a small but (as a percentage) slightly-noticeable number of foreign-born babies, but the socio-psychological effects of this have been well-documented. Adopted kids have higher rates of mental-illness, substance abuse and criminality than non-adopted kids, and those numbers are probably greatly unerreported. Whether you're adopting a kid from a third-world country or from down the block, it's a fact that you're contributing to this.

This may strange, but I think a homeless orphan, who likely cannot get enough to eat, probably should have a home, despite the risks involved.

I think if you're up for adopting, that's great. I personally hope to have biological children one day, but I'd never suggest anyone was wrong for adopting, having kids themselves, or choosing not to have kids at all.

It is unfortunate when some white asshole descends upon a third world village with the dream of playing savior to some kid who never asked for it.

There are plenty of children who would like it, methinks.

The solution to Africa being a shithole isn't to grab the cutest kids now living there.

No, but it might help the children to grab the ones who have no home.

This may strange, but I think a homeless orphan, who likely cannot get enough to eat, probably should have a home, despite the risks involved.

Adoption is an extreme and impractical way to alleviate global poverty. A misguided sense of global citizenship should not be behind your willingness to adopt, in any case. The million dollar difference between the cost of raising a child in the U.S. and the cost of raising one in, say, Africa, could be used in a thousand better ways, and without taking the risks I described, besides.

There are plenty of children who would like it, methinks.
Yeah, because there's nothing they want more than to be taken away from their culture, language, nation, home and people. And since most of these deals are rather sketchy, the child has even less hope than one who was adopted within their own country of ever finding out where they came from.
No, but it might help the children to grab the ones who have no home.
Everyone has a home, it is where they sleep.

i did think about it long ago before i was a mother.

it never happened because its too much rig-a-ma-roll to go through. all those people needing to evaluate you and your fitness to be a parent. plus there is the feeling of shopping for a child. its kinda creepy really.

there isnt much sense in adopting babies (as a good thing to do for the world) because there are plenty of people who want to adopt babies. but you have no skills in dealing with an older child who has some problems already.

do you, as if you were taking in a rescue dog, take the most needy, most troubled child? you have no idea how much trouble that will bring you. do you take the prettiest/smartest/tallest? those children probably have plenty of takers.

would you look for a local child? would you go to another country (malawi) to get one?
All of that make adoption a very daunting and uncomfortable business. But I would still choose to adopt rather than have my own. And now that I'm getting on in years, it's becoming less of a debate for me. But I lack the resources to please the authorities, whose rules I would immediately abandon just as soon as I had satisfied them enough to get approval. If I had said resources (like the money to feed a second person and afford a place that could give a kid his/her own room), I might apply for fostering, in the hope of developing the skills needed to deal with the issues of older children who have been in the system for a while. I just have this thing about seeing someone who is in a bad situation through no fault of their own, who has the potential to be something else if they could get free of the crap, and just saying to them something like, "You want out? Come along with me. I'm going in a whole different direction, far away from this shit."

Everyone has a home, it is where they sleep.

Then sometimes my home is a kitchen, some stairs, 2 square meters of empty floor, standing in a hallway, a bar and various other places :D

Then sometimes my home is a kitchen, some stairs, 2 square meters of empty floor, standing in a hallway, a bar and various other places :D

Sometimes my home is yo mammas bed.

Yeah, because there's nothing they want more than to be taken away from their culture, language, nation, home and people. And since most of these deals are rather sketchy, the child has even less hope than one who was adopted within their own country of ever finding out where they came from.

What if they are being abused? What if they cannot eat?

Everyone has a home, it is where they sleep.

Hear ye, hear ye! H N Fiddlebottoms VIII has just single-handedly solved the homeless problem--it does not even exsist! Tear down the shelters, folks, and cease the aid!

Sometimes my home is yo mammas bed.

You sleep in the graveyard? Eew :eek:

You sleep in the graveyard? Eew :eek:

O shi-

I think that I'd want a kid or two of my own and then adopt one in addition to this. I'd like to pass on my own genes, but also giving a good home to a kid who otherwise wouldn't have one seems like a good idea to me.

Oh, and I'm not sure if I'd want to adopt a kid from here because apparently the laws around adoption are such that the birth parents can reclaim the kid almost whenever they want.

What if they are being abused? What if they cannot eat?
What if we lived in what if world? In the real world, it is a psychologically damaging endeavor that dangerously smacks of colonialism and does nothing for the world.
Hear ye, hear ye! H N Fiddlebottoms VIII has just single-handedly solved the homeless problem--it does not even exsist! Tear down the shelters, folks, and cease the aid!
Homelessness refers to people who don't have adequate shelter or resources, they still have a "home." Home means the environment where one lives; any idiot should have been able to read that much.

Better to donate to something like Plan International in my opinion.

What if we lived in what if world? In the real world, it is a psychologically damaging endeavor that dangerously smacks of colonialism and does nothing for the world.

No, the examples I gave actually exist; they are not hypothetical.

Homelessness refers to people who don't have adequate shelter or resources, they still have a "home." Home means the environment where one lives; any idiot should have been able to read that much.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/homeless

Being adopted is shit.

Been there. It has it's shitty periods.... Still, isn't it better to put up with those times and be glad you're alive?

I have no desire to be pregnant, none at all. However, I have an almost primal desire to adopt children. The wierd thing is, I don't know if I even want to be a parent.

Got two of my own, I don't think I'll be adopting soon, I wish more people would though.

No, the examples I gave actually exist; they are not hypothetical.
And there are no abused and starving children in the US? Of course not, orphans in the US are just overfed, spoiled brats not worthy of being stepped on by the great and enlightened who perform the oh so noble task of adopting a child who's language they don't speak.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/homeless
And this is where Merriam-Webster is wrong. A home is more than "a permanent place of residence." A home is an environment, I've spoken to homeless people who referred to parks or subway stations as their homes.

All of that make adoption a very daunting and uncomfortable business. But I would still choose to adopt rather than have my own. And now that I'm getting on in years, it's becoming less of a debate for me. But I lack the resources to please the authorities, whose rules I would immediately abandon just as soon as I had satisfied them enough to get approval. If I had said resources (like the money to feed a second person and afford a place that could give a kid his/her own room), I might apply for fostering, in the hope of developing the skills needed to deal with the issues of older children who have been in the system for a while. I just have this thing about seeing someone who is in a bad situation through no fault of their own, who has the potential to be something else if they could get free of the crap, and just saying to them something like, "You want out? Come along with me. I'm going in a whole different direction, far away from this shit."
for some reason i see fostering as a much better idea. if it turns out that you cant handle a certain child you can "give them back" without the horror of ending an adoption. and foster kids have such a desperate need of a soft place to land when their original families have blown apart.

I really don't understand the drive to pass down your genetic material.......really don't. My pregnancies were unplanned.......really freaking unplanned. The idea was to adopt....but then birth control failed.

I'm currently trying to get my shit together to adopt, but I need to wait until the youngest is a bit older since they want you to adopt a kid younger than your youngest.

And there are no abused and starving children in the US? Of course not, orphans in the US are just overfed, spoiled brats not worthy of being stepped on by the great and enlightened who perform the oh so noble task of adopting a child who's language they don't speak.

It was said earlier in this thread that children in the U.S. are in extremely high demand. I do not know how true this is, but I pointed-out that there are plenty of children in need in other countries.

And this is where Merriam-Webster is wrong. A home is more than "a permanent place of residence." A home is an environment, I've spoken to homeless people who referred to parks or subway stations as their homes.

So, of course, they need no help. If one homeless person can be happy hanging-out in a park, it means we do not have to worry about children in who live in a garbage dump. :)

I really don't understand the drive to pass down your genetic material.......really don't. My pregnancies were unplanned.......really freaking unplanned. The idea was to adopt....but then birth control failed.

Was it a pill? I take it you used a different birth-control after the first one failed?

I have talked to a number of parents who had faulty birth-control, and I sure think that the companies that make those need to get their asses into gear.

Was it a pill? I take it you used a different birth-control after the first one failed?

I have talked to a number of parents who had faulty birth-control, and I sure think that the companies that make need to get their asses into gear.

Pill and then different pill+condom.

Pill and then different pill+condom.

And that failed? What crummy devices.

Geeze, I might remain celibate longer that I anticipated, because I sure-as-hell do not want take the risk of making someone pregnant--if that crap could happen to you twice, it could happen to anyone.

So, of course, they need no help. If one homeless person can be happy hanging-out in a park, it means we do not have to worry about children in who live in a garbage dump. :)
Obviously they need help. I never said that the homeless don't need assistance, and people with houses or apartments sometimes need assistance as well.
However, even people without something that might be recognized as a permanent dwelling have places that they are comfortable with, and taking them out of that environment (especially to the extent that they lose their nation and language) is traumatic.

I have no problem with adopting. In fact, I would kinda prefer it, since I don't know my genetic history (plus, I don't know how much fetal alcohol syndrome has damaged my genes).

However, I have no plans to have children ever, 'cuz I already know I'd make a horrible father.
If they are raised by their adoptive parents since two (and this is quite possible), why would they be looked at "sideways"?
I was adopted at two and I am looked at sideways. :p

But that's beside the point. Assuming I was in a relationship where children were an option, I'd probably be in favor of adopting. I'm still not entirely convinced of the rightness of the female reproductive system, and the thought that my significant other had another person growing inside her would give me nightmares.
What? O.o

My rule for everyone one I make I will adopt one.

Obviously they need help. I never said that the homeless don't need assistance, and people with houses or apartments sometimes need assistance as well.
However, even people without something that might be recognized as a permanent dwelling have places that they are comfortable with, and taking them out of that environment (especially to the extent that they lose their nation and language) is traumatic.

I can see your reasoning, but I believe that the risk of vagrant orphans take every day makes the idea of adoption desirable, despite the common risks.

I was adopted at two and I am looked at sideways. :p

For being adopted, though? http://smilies.vidahost.com/otn/angry/paranoid.gif

Obviously I wouldn't do it now, but I would do in the future.

I want to have kids eventually. When the time comes, and if my girlfriend/wife is ok with it, then I'll want them to be my own.

I want to have kids eventually. When the time comes, and if my girlfriend/wife is ok with it, then I'll want them to be my own.

Why not mix and match? Pick and mix?

I have adopted 4 kids.

I have adopted 4 kids.

4? Bet that's hard work.

My rule for everyone one I make I will adopt one.

Good rule.

What? O.o
Women go around bleeding and growing other people inside them, and they expect us to believe that this is somehow "natural." Yeah, right. It is sick, it is disturbing, and it is wrong.
I dream of the day that scientists finally get around to modifying humans with monotreme DNA and we can finally lay all this "pregnancy" nonsense to rest.

I don't have much choice in the matter, but I would love to adopt one day. Yes, a 14 year old wants kids. Bite me. Or rather, don't

I hate my genes, but nonetheless I can certainly try to pass them on. My children might like it as much as I hated it. :p

I felt the same way, but a sense of morbid curiosity as to whether my testicles still functioned got the best of me. :p
Afraid that the countless nut-kicks had taken its toll? :p

It was said earlier in this thread that children in the U.S. are in extremely high demand.
It sounds as if children are commodities. No wonder child trafficking and selling children are prevalent, especially in poorer countries.

4? Bet that's hard work.

Sometimes it is and sometimes it just seems to all go smoothly. Tonight went well. They all had plans and I had a dinner with friends. (They are all high schoolers.) Of course, now they are all downstairs being noisy and I want to sleep. :)

Sometimes it is and sometimes it just seems to all go smoothly. Tonight went well. They all had plans and I had a dinner with friends. (They are all high schoolers.) Of course, now they are all downstairs being noisy and I want to sleep. :)

:salute:

You are being a damned fine person.

Sometimes it is and sometimes it just seems to all go smoothly. Tonight went well. They all had plans and I had a dinner with friends. (They are all high schoolers.) Of course, now they are all downstairs being noisy and I want to sleep. :)

I dunno how you'd do that. I couldn't manage 4 kids.

The problem isn't that the world is overpopulated; the problem is that it's unevenly populated.

As for adoption, it's a perfectly noble thing to do, provided you're not doing it for your public image (I'm looking at you, Joan Crawford, Angelina Jolie, and Madonna). I'm not saying that you would adopt for this reason, TPE, I'm just speaking generally.

If I ever decided to become a father (I won't, but if I did), I would adopt, but for different reasons than you stated.

I intend to knock up a hooker the good old fashioned Fiddlebottoms way.

I think one of my own, and then perhaps adoption if I want more children.

Unfortunately, I'm kinda under orders to have my own kids.

"You shall be fruitful and multiply"

Unfortunately, I'm kinda under orders to have my own kids.

"You shall be fruitful and multiply"

Does that make people who are born sterile sinners?

Does that make people who are born sterile sinners?

No, they are exempt. G-d takes doctor's notes.

No, they are exempt. G-d takes doctor's notes.

So what about homsexuals. Is God fine with them being born the way they are? And why do you censor the "o" in God? It's not his name. That's either Jehovah, Iehovah, Yahwe, or YHVH, depending on who you ask.

Afraid that the countless nut-kicks had taken its toll? :p

The thought had occurred to me(and most people who knew me).

The world is suffering from overpopulation, and many children desperately need homes. I have decided that if I ever want children, I will only adopt. Does anybody here share my sentiment?
^ ^
This.

I would support this. If only people would adopt kids in the U.S. and not from Timbuktudaliwalawalawalawalaland in Africa. There are homeless kids in America, too, people.
Unfortunately, it can be much more difficult to adopt American kids, especially as many kids in foster care have parents who refuse to release them for adoption.... and there are also those with health or cognitive problems which prospective parents don't want to deal with.... or ones that are just traumatized by their circumstances.... or just too old because people want babies and toddlers, not adolescents or (god forbid) teens.

Also, homeless =/= parentless.

Also, not every person posting here is an American, and this is a global problem.

They are little plastic dolls used to get attention and act like a movie-star.
Untrue. I know of a family who adopted a Mexican orphan and a Chinese orphan. They certainly did not do it for the celebrity status -- they did it because the kids needed families.

Just have your own kid. You can shoot a couple hobos or streetwalkers as a sort of carbon offset later on if you like. Being adopted is shit.
Two of my cousins would vehemently disagree.

So what about homsexuals. Is God fine with them being born the way they are? And why do you censor the "o" in God? It's not his name. That's either Jehovah, Iehovah, Yahwe, or YHVH, depending on who you ask.

Homosexuals are not exempt. They have a problem - they desire to have sex with their own gender, which is wrong. They are supposed to overcome it. A rabbi of mine compared it to kleptomania.

As for the censorship thing, it's a fairly common practice which I follow. It isn't a law, merely a custom to honor G-d.

Homosexuals are not exempt. They have a problem - they desire to have sex with their own gender, which is wrong.

How is it wrong? It's no more right or wrong than you being heterosexual.

They are supposed to overcome it.

How exactly?

A rabbi of mine compared it to kleptomania.

Then he doesn't know the meaning of that word.

It isn't a law, merely a custom to honor G-d.

Honouring him by not even using the full euphemism for him?

I want to have kids so that they will share my traits.

I want to have kids so that they will share my traits.

Oh God, isn't one of you enough?

Homosexuals are not exempt. They have a problem - they desire to have sex with their own gender, which is wrong. They are supposed to overcome it. A rabbi of mine compared it to kleptomania.

As for the censorship thing, it's a fairly common practice which I follow. It isn't a law, merely a custom to honor G-d.

He, he, bullshit.

Oh God, isn't one of you enough?

No. I want smart, little, white-haired, right-wing imperialist babies! :p

No. I want smart, little, white-haired, right-wing imperialist babies! :p

On a side note, imagine if you and Heikoku had kids.

No. I want smart, little, white-haired, right-wing imperialist babies! :p

*Has heart failure at the very thought*

On a side note, imagine if you and Heikoku had kids.
Children with Schizophrenia.

Children with Schizophrenia.

I was more thinking identical twins. But which would be the evil one? Either that or 1 kid whose left side is like Heikoku and whose right side is like TAI. But then the child would probably tear itself to shreds within about 20 seconds of being born.

No. I want smart, little, white-haired, right-wing imperialist babies! :p

Smart?:p

On a side note, imagine if you and Heikoku had kids.
We are both guys, but setting that aside . . .

We don't share the same love of logic, he's not blonde, not right-wing and not imperialist. Also, I'd probably have babies with a tall-ish girl . . . and maybe one who speaks German. :p

I was more thinking identical twins. But which would be the evil one? Either that or 1 kid whose left side is like Heikoku and whose right side is like TAI. But then the child would probably tear itself to shreds within about 20 seconds of being born.
hahahahhahaha
Children with Schizophrenia.
lol!
*Has heart failure at the very thought*
Mwahaha...imagine 3 of me, but new and improved because my wife is gonna be hotter, smarter, blonder and more right wing than me. :D
Smart?:p
Brilliant, if you prefer? :D

Mwahaha...imagine 3 of me, but new and improved because my wife is gonna be hotter, smarter, blonder and more right wing than me. :D

But what if your wife is a secret Communist, sent forth by the International Communist Conspiracy* to corrupt your children!:eek2::eek2:

*As put forth by the Cloak, Communist Hunting crackpot, with his sidekick, Robert Mitchum's floating head.

But what if your wife is a secret Communist, sent forth by the International Communist Conspiracy* to corrupt your children!:eek2::eek2:

*As put forth by the Cloak, Communist Hunting crackpot, with his sidekick, Robert Mitchum's floating head.

Good thing I have already planned for that, which is why my wife will not only have to sign a pre-nup with me, but also take a supervised lie-detector test. :tongue:

Untrue. I know of a family who adopted a Mexican orphan and a Chinese orphan. They certainly did not do it for the celebrity status -- they did it because the kids needed families.

Sorry if I seemed serious Kat, as I was trying to be humorous--an attempt to caricature an unfortunately prevalent attitude in the United States. I wish there were more families like the one you knew.

No. I want smart, little, white-haired, right-wing imperialist babies! :p

I pictured you looking more like a younger Hugh Jackman, sans the facial hair.

We are both guys, but setting that aside . . .

We don't share the same love of logic, he's not blonde, not right-wing and not imperialist. Also, I'd probably have babies with a tall-ish girl . . . and maybe one who speaks German. :p

Just great, NSG has its own G. Gordon Liddy. :gas:

I pictured you looking more like a younger Hugh Jackman, sans the facial hair.
No. :p I already posted my picture a few days ago. I don't look like Hugh Jackman at all. :p

Just great, NSG has its own G. Gordon Liddy. :gas:

How so?

How so?

Noting your character and concern for passing on your traits, I would say you are definitely like him, though you are probably not as good with a gun.

Good thing I have already planned for that, which is why my wife will not only have to sign a pre-nup with me, but also take a supervised lie-detector test. :tongue:
I heard somewhere that lie-detector tests aren't as accurate as they used to be for some reason.

Just a heads up. :tongue:

I dunno how you'd do that. I couldn't manage 4 kids.

My grandparents managed 12. 4's not so bad. :p

My grandparents managed 12. 4's not so bad. :p

My grandad came from a family of at least 17, according to my dad, and possibly 23. I spit on your paltry 12. :tongue:

Also, I wonder if really adopting is analogous to having your own child, on an emotional level. I would think not.

My parents couldn't have a kid, so for them they've always thought of it as the same.

Just have your own kid. You can shoot a couple hobos or streetwalkers as a sort of carbon offset later on if you like. Being adopted is shit.

It isn't. The emotional distance that other close relatives have with the kid will be immediately obvious as well. Maybe not obvious to the kid, who might just assume there's something wrong with him/her, but obvious to everyone else.

You know, having been adopted (for most of my life, in fact) you'd think I would have noticed any of this at all. But I haven't. At all.

So I guess either it was all a lie and I wasn't really adopted, or you're just full of shit.

Guess which one it is?

He, he, bullshit.

Oh, I forgot to include the caveat:

The very concept of forcing my religious beliefs on others is anathema to me. Therefore, anyone who would actually propose legislation to, say, make it illegal for gays to act on their desires should go have intimate relations with an aquatic fowl.

Adoption is fine, but I want my own biological children. I want to carry on the family line, and pass down my genes. That is one of the most basic instincts and duties every man has. I cannot imagine why anyone would not want at least one child to make sure their bloodline continues.

Adoption is fine, but I want my own biological children. I want to carry on the family line, and pass down my genes. That is one of the most basic instincts and duties every man has. I cannot imagine why anyone would not want at least one child to make sure their bloodline continues.

To be honest, I feel that the world has too many bloodlines as it is, since starvation is rampant.

To be honest, I feel that the world has too many bloodlines as it is, since starvation is rampant.

So? Take care of your own first. Make sure your bloodline lives on and has a decent life.

So? Take care of your own first. Make sure your bloodline lives on and has a decent life.

What is so important about a "bloodline"? and why is it worth human lives?

What is so important about a "bloodline"? and why is it worth human lives?

You are continuing your own family line. To not produce offspring is a failure to all your ancestors back until the beginning of time.

And why should people in the West not have kids just because third world countries of starving people?

We are just supposed to die so they can live? We should drop dead because we are successful? That is fucked up.

I can't believe people have to argue that having kids isn't a bad thing.

If you want to be an evolutionary failure, by all means, fail.

You are continuing your own family line. To not produce offspring is a failure to all your ancestors back until the beginning of time.

A "failure"? Why? Tokugawa ruled Japan competently. So did his direct successors, but his later descendants really fucked-up. I think the raising of a child is more important than genetics.

And why should people in the West not have kids just because third world countries of starving people?

Because starving sucks? Wanna try it?

We are just supposed to die so they can live? We should drop dead because we are successful? That is fucked up.

No, not drop dead. Just lower the reproduction rate.

I can't believe people have to argue that having kids isn't a bad thing.

The world is overpopulated, in case you did not notice.

If you want to be an evolutionary failure, by all means, fail.

Are you proposing we base our morals and society on Darwin?

Nah, Im greedy and want my own Spawn, ;)

A "failure"? Why? Tokugawa ruled Japan competently. So did his direct successors, but his later descendants really fucked-up. I think the raising of a child is more important than genetics.



Because starving sucks? Wanna try it?



No, not drop dead. Just lower the reproduction rate.



The world is overpopulated, in case you did not notice.



Are you proposing we base our morals and society on Darwin?

Having children and raising them correctly are both important, yes, but having your own children is more important than raising other people's.

I don't see why successful regions should cripple themselves for less fortunate regions.

We'll lower ours once they lower their reproduction rate.

Not all morality should be based on Darwin, no, but it should play a bigger part, yes.

Oy. Speaking as someone who does want to have biological kids, I would just like to note that it has fuck-all to do with not being a "failure to my ancestors." My ancestors are either (a) dead, and thus not in a position to give a shit, or (b) sensible people who would be perfectly happy with an adopted grandchild/great-grandchild. Further, I have no intention of having children because I somehow owe it to someone. My body is my own, and I am under no obligation to incubate embryos in it for anyone else. I want biological kids because I think some of my genes are worth passing on, because I can think of very little more incredibly awesome-sounding than creating a being that is actually made of me and someone I love enough to want to spend the rest of my life with them, and because, yeah, fundamentally it's a biological instinct and I just do. The idea that people who don't have biological kids are "failures" is just stupid.

Having children and raising them correctly are both important, yes, but having your own children is more important than raising other people's.

Why?

I don't see why successful regions should cripple themselves for less fortunate regions.

How exactly would they "cripple themselves" by adopting?

We'll lower ours once they lower their reproduction rate.

You seem to be indifferent toward to suffering of the child of an irresponsible parent.

Not all morality should be based on Darwin, no, but it should play a bigger part, yes.

Correct me if I wrong on this, but it seems you see the world this way: If the choice comes between saving a black child's life or creating another white child, you are going to favor more whiteness; amirite?

Oy. Speaking as someone who does want to have biological kids, I would just like to note that it has fuck-all to do with not being a "failure to my ancestors." My ancestors are either (a) dead, and thus not in a position to give a shit, or (b) sensible people who would be perfectly happy with an adopted grandchild/great-grandchild. Further, I have no intention of having children because I somehow owe it to someone. My body is my own, and I am under no obligation to incubate embryos in it for anyone else. I want biological kids because I think some of my genes are worth passing on, because I can think of very little more incredibly awesome-sounding than creating a being that is actually made of me and someone I love enough to want to spend the rest of my life with them, and because, yeah, fundamentally it's a biological instinct and I just do. The idea that people who don't have biological kids are "failures" is just stupid.

Failures in an evolutionary sense.

Oy. Speaking as someone who does want to have biological kids, I would just like to note that it has fuck-all to do with not being a "failure to my ancestors." My ancestors are either (a) dead, and thus not in a position to give a shit, or (b) sensible people who would be perfectly happy with an adopted grandchild/great-grandchild. Further, I have no intention of having children because I somehow owe it to someone. My body is my own, and I am under no obligation to incubate embryos in it for anyone else. I want biological kids because I think some of my genes are worth passing on, because I can think of very little more incredibly awesome-sounding than creating a being that is actually made of me and someone I love enough to want to spend the rest of my life with them, and because, yeah, fundamentally it's a biological instinct and I just do. The idea that people who don't have biological kids are "failures" is just stupid.

You need not worry, Poli: I am not using Trollgaard as a representation of all parents of biological children.

Failures in an evolutionary sense.

If one sees a fit woman uninterested in oneself, and one fails to rape her (providing one could certainly get away with it), one is a failure in the evolutionary sense.

Failures in an evolutionary sense.

Evolution is not a contest. There is no prize given for passing on your personal genes other than...passing on your personal genes. Arguing that choosing not to pass on your genes makes you a "failure at evolution" is like arguing that choosing to be a lawyer makes you a "failure at being a doctor." If you didn't want to be a doctor, why the hell should you care?

Why?



How exactly would they "cripple themselves" by adopting?


You seem to be indifferent toward to suffering of the child of an irresponsible parent.



Correct me if I wrong on this, but it seems you see the world this way: If the choice comes between saving a black child's life or creating another white child, you are going to favor more whiteness; amirite?

Because they are your OWN BIOLOGICAL children! How can you not understand that? They are of your OWN blood.

Destroying their genes, their manpower for future conflicts, reducing their economic capability, etc.

And you make it sound so iffy. I'm saying anyone should have their own children first. And adopt after they have one or two of their own biological children.

But, I am white, so if my having children causes black children to die in Africa(how the fuck does my having kids thousands of miles away= dead kids in africa, btw?), then I would still have my own kids. Its instinct, buddy.

You need not worry, Poli: I am not using Trollgaard as a representation of all parents of biological children.

Heh, I should hope not. I honestly can't even fathom the idea that I should be thinking, "I must make babies! I owe it to my great-great-great-great-great-grandparents, whom I never met and know nothing about, and whom I am pretty certain never once thought, 'Boy, I'll sure be pissed off from beyond the grave if each and every one of my great-great-great-great-great-grandchildren doesn't make some babies' even before they died and stopped thinking anything at all!" :p

Because they are your OWN BIOLOGICAL children! How can you not understand that? They are of your OWN blood.

Destroying their genes, their manpower for future conflicts, reducing their economic capability, etc.

And you make it sound so iffy. I'm saying anyone should have their own children first. And adopt after they have one or two of their own biological children.

But, I am white, so if my having children causes black children to die in Africa(how the fuck does my having kids thousands of miles away= dead kids in africa, btw?), then I would still have my own kids. Its instinct, buddy.

Even though that was purely hypothetical, it disturbs me.

"Dave, this conversation can serve no purpose anymore. Goodbye."

Evolution is not a contest.

Well, maybe not the way you do it, ;)

If one sees a fit woman uninterested in oneself, and one fails to rape her (providing one could certainly get away with it), one is a failure in the evolutionary sense.

Nope. Rape isn't a valid form to procreate. As, first off, its wrong, and second, you don't usually get to raise the child.

Evolution is not a contest. There is no prize given for passing on your personal genes other than...passing on your personal genes. Arguing that choosing not to pass on your genes makes you a "failure at evolution" is like arguing that choosing to be a lawyer makes you a "failure at being a doctor." If you didn't want to be a doctor, why the hell should you care?

The prize is...passing on your genes, yes. I don't understand why that isn't a good thing. That is the entire reason for life. Procreation, passing on your genes, and continuing the species.

Heh, I should hope not. I honestly can't even fathom the idea that I should be thinking, "I must make babies! I owe it to my great-great-great-great-great-grandparents, whom I never met and know nothing about, and whom I am pretty certain never once thought, 'Boy, I'll sure be pissed off from beyond the grave if each and every one of my great-great-great-great-great-grandchildren doesn't make some babies' even before they died and stopped thinking anything at all!" :p

Yeah, besides, who knows the dickweeds we might have as ancestors?

Nope. Rape isn't a valid form to procreate. As, first off, its wrong, and second, you don't usually get to raise the child.

The prize is...passing on your genes, yes. I don't understand why that isn't a good thing. That is the entire reason for life. Procreation, passing on your genes, and continuing the species.
ERROR! ERROR! STATEMENTS CONTRADICTING EACH OTHER!

*Yootbot explodes in its own face*

Even though that was purely hypothetical, it disturbs me.

"Dave, this conversation can serve no purpose anymore. Goodbye."

Explain how my having kids=dead african kids.

Call me old fashioned, but I'm a bit selfish and protective of my family and friends.

Well, maybe not the way you do it, ;)

"On the left, we have Tyrannosaurus rex! On the right, a small rodent-like creature! Let's see what happens when we hit their planet with a meteor, next on Survivor: Mesozoic Era!" :p

Call me old fashioned, but I'm a bit selfish and protective of my family and friends.

http://i42.tinypic.com/149qhcw.jpg

Do you remember a time when certain folks shot trespassers on sight?

Pepperidge Farm remembers....

"On the left, we have Tyrannosaurus rex! On the right, a small rodent-like creature! Let's see what happens when we hit their planet with a meteor, next on Survivor: Mesozoic Era!" :p

http://generalitemafia.ipbfree.com/uploads/ipbfree.com/generalitemafia/emo-24.gif

Unfortunately, by his logic, due to my lack of potential mate prospects atm, Im failing at Evolution, :(

Explain how my having kids=dead african kids.

Call me old fashioned, but I'm a bit selfish and protective of my family and friends.

The fact that you would not be bothered if your having children killed others shows me that it is pointless to debate this with you. The situation I offered was purely hypothetical, but there is apparently not enough moral fabric to work with, here. You care far more for your sperm than you do for the suffering of a breathing, talking child. You consider anything that comes from, or even resides within, your penis more important than everything else.

The fact that you would not be bothered if your having children killed others shows me that it is pointless to debate this with you. The situation I offered was purely hypothetical, but there is apparently not enough moral fabric to work with, here. You care far more for your sperm than you do for the suffering of a breathing, talking child. You consider anything that comes from, or even resides within, your penis more important than everything else.

So because the world isn't perfect people shouldn't have kids? We should throw in the towel and doom ourselves to extinction because the world isn't fair?

Or, should we accept that the world isn't fair and go about our lives?

The fact that you can't understand the importance of having biological children is what really shows the hoplessness of the debate.

So because the world isn't perfect people shouldn't have kids? We should throw in the towel and doom ourselves to extinction because the world isn't fair?

Or, should we accept that the world isn't fair and go about our lives?

Please read the OP. If the world population was is great decline, my policy would change accordingly.

Please read the OP. If the world population was is great decline, my policy would change accordingly.

I did, and stated I disagree. If everyone embraced your view there would be no new children, thus dooming ourselves to extinction.

Your policy is the policy of the weak spirited. Just because there is suffering is no reason to not have children. And yes, the world is overpopulated, but by God I'm not going to condemn my bloodline to extinction. I'll prepare them as best I can for the crash.

I did, and stated I disagree. If everyone embraced your view there would be no new children, thus dooming ourselves to extinction.

If everyone embraced my view then they would only produce as many children as could be fed, since I never suggested the whole world cease reproducing. Now I am going to politely ask you to stop twisting my words.

If everyone embraced my view then they would only produce as many children as could be fed, since I never suggested the whole world cease reproducing. Now I am going to politely ask you to stop twisting my words.

Ha!

You are a fine one to talk.

Twisting my words to make sound as if only white children should be born.

Hypocrite.

Ha!

You are a fine one to talk.

Twisting my words to make sound as if only white children should be born.

Hypocrite.

I said you valued white children above black children, which you do.

I said you valued white children above black children, which you do.

Parkus, if I were you I'd stop feeding the Trollgaard. I get the feeling that it might just end up going in boring circles. :P

I said you valued white children above black children, which you do.

I said I value MY OWN children over other children.

I happen to be white, so that means I value my own children, who would white (most likely), over black children.

I would value my own children over other white children, asian children, martian children, etc.

You didn't seem to grasp that.

Parkus, if I were you I'd stop feeding the Trollgaard. I get the feeling that it might just end up going in boring circles. :P

I will heed your words of wisdom, Jordaxia.

I would value my own children over martian children.

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l103/1234dre_2006/marvin_the_martian.jpg?t=1241420206

Trollgaard, are you serious?

Trollgaard, are you serious?

90%+ of what I post is serious.

What parts are you doubting and why?

edit:

@Skalvia: lulz!

90%+ of what I post is serious.

What parts are you doubting and why?

edit:

@Skalvia: lulz!

Half the shit you've posted seems to be a joke to me, I can't see how you're serious.

Half the shit you've posted seems to be a joke to me, I can't see how you're serious.

About what, exactly?

Half the shit you've posted seems to be a joke to me, I can't see how you're serious.

You mean the parts about how white sperm is more important than black children? :D

About what, exactly?

You mean the parts about how white sperm is more important than black children? :D

Pretty much this.

lol.

Pretty much this.

lol.

Read post 146.

And then when you are finished with that, read post #128.

Read post 146.

I have, seems to me like you're back tracking.

And then when you are finished with that, read post #128.

Which says I would still have kids if it meant black kids would die, as I think I've made abundantly clear I value my own family more than others. And children are the future, so of course I care about the future of my family more than some random person I've never met.

I have, seems to me like you're back tracking.

Clarification for Parkus's sake.

Which says I would still have kids if it meant black kids would die, as I think I've made abundantly clear I value my own family more than others. And children are the future, so of course I care about the future of my family more than some random person I've never met.



Clarification for Parkus's sake.

You mean- retracting words for fear of being called racist?

You mean- retracting words for fear of being called racist?

I clarified so people like you wouldn't get your panties in a knot.

But fine, call me racist for wanting to have children.

:rolleyes: