NationStates Jolt Archive

What's wrong with solitary worship? I believe that the Gods and Goddess are everywhere, in everything. So, I do alot of solitary worship. I do celebrate the Sabbats with a group, but that's mainly for the social aspect of doing it with a group. Hey, would you pass up a chance to drink ale and eat cake? However, it seems like some people believe that the only "proper" way to worship their deity of choice is within a building. Why though? What makes the building, and worshiping in group so special? Also, why do people pray that a person will worship in such a way? Why can't they be happy that they worship the deity, just by themselves?

You would burn in hell for daring to disobey the Flying Spahetti Monster.

......because we're social animals? It's the same reason we eat, talk, play, drink sing and dance together. We are a social species.

Why though? What makes the building

Echoed or even amplified sound? Impressive scenery? Warmer? It's just more convenient.

, and worshiping in group so special?

What neo said.


Also, why do people pray that a person will worship in such a way? Why can't they be happy that they worship the deity, just by themselves?

I don't think that happens much.

What's wrong with solitary worship? I believe that the Gods and Goddess are everywhere, in everything. So, I do alot of solitary worship. I do celebrate the Sabbats with a group, but that's mainly for the social aspect of doing it with a group. Hey, would you pass up a chance to drink ale and eat cake? However, it seems like some people believe that the only "proper" way to worship their deity of choice is within a building. Why though? What makes the building, and worshiping in group so special? Also, why do people pray that a person will worship in such a way? Why can't they be happy that they worship the deity, just by themselves?

Most of my worship is done alone, or with my wife. Part of the reason for this is that since we've moved we haven't really found a good home church yet, another large factor is that JEsus is very personal to me (as was probably intended) so that, while I love community with a good church, my faith would be so much less if I didn't feel comfortable alone with it (as it were). Not sure if that's exactly what you're talking about, but I figure it's along the same vein.

......because we're social animals? It's the same reason we eat, talk, play, drink sing and dance together. We are a social species.
Most of the times I do those things, I'm alone because I don't live with a group of people and I don't wait until I'm in one to do those things.

Most of the things I do regularly in groups are no fun at all -- like commuting and being at work. If that's being "a social animal", I'd rather give it a pass.

As for worshipping/venerating/etc., I always do that alone because I don't know any other animists and I probably wouldn't like them anyway.

......because we're social animals? It's the same reason we eat, talk, play, drink sing and dance together. We are a social species.

So you won't mind if we masturbate together?

We are after all a social species.


To the OP: Nothing at all why did you ask this question.

What's wrong with solitary worship?

Nothing. I'm personally a big follower of this, because I believe that worship is between a man and his god(s) and isn't really anyone else's business. Temples and so forth are nice places to worship because they are monuments to people's devotion - if one goes, one can imagine the grandeur of their god(s). Moreover, it makes one feel like one is a part of a community of other believers. Nonetheless, even though I go to Hindu temples semi-regularly, the actual act of worship is still with my eyes closed and between me and my god(s). So, even at a temple, to me, at least, it's "solitary worship".

If that makes any sense.

So you won't mind if we masturbate together?


This is generally how NSG works.

So you won't mind if we masturbate together?

We are after all a social species.

You kind of prove my point I hope you realize. There are people who enjoy doing that too. But the OP basically boils down to "hey, why do people do stuff together?"

The answer isn't all that complex, and therefore I wonder why it's even asked. It's a hodgepodge of socialization, tradition, and habit. For instance, why do jews have services together? Because in the jewish tradition, you need a minyan. Why do catholics worhship together? Because the catholic tradition emphasizes that services be lead by a man of god, ministering to the flock, in emulation of jesus.

Why do people continue all these traditions? Partially because they believe them to be true, partially because they believe them to have some communal value, and partially because they like it.

What further response could really be expected to what is essentially yet another one of Wilgrove's "why do people do stuff?" threads?

You kind of prove my point I hope you realize. There are people who enjoy doing that too. But the OP basically boils down to "hey, why do people do stuff together?"

The answer isn't all that complex, and therefore I wonder why it's even asked. It's a hodgepodge of socialization, tradition, and habit. For instance, why do jews have services together? Because in the jewish tradition, you need a minyan. Why do catholics worhship together? Because the catholic tradition emphasizes that services be lead by a man of god, ministering to the flock, in emulation of jesus.

Why do people continue all these traditions? Partially because they believe them to be true, partially because they believe them to have some communal value, and partially because they like it.

What further response could really be expected to what is essentially yet another one of Wilgrove's "why do people do stuff?" threads?

So is that a yes?

In all seriousness, I really was only going on his first question, sometimes Willy goes on a bit and asks other questions (nothing against you willy :)) but yes I do understand what you are saying and yes I do agree with your point.

In all seriousness, I really was only going on his first question, sometimes Willy goes on a bit and asks other questions

Well, I more addressed the question of "why do people like praying in groups" and sorta ignore the implication of "why do people who do that think it's the only way to do it?" Mainly because it's just sort of a recurring concept of a theme in which the OP comes to some revelation about some undefined, nondescript and amorphous "those people" who "do stuff" and then appear on NSG to question us about why these undefined nondescript and amorphous people do the things they do?

Why do some people view their method of worship as the correct way? ....Because they do. People have the capacity to be judgmental. Is this new? Does this need to be spelled out? I really don't know what kind of response can really be expected from that question.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collective_effervescence

Emile Durkheim believed religion to be intrinsically social, of course you don't have to agree with him, but it's an answer to your question.

Satanists work in groups for the social aspects, but as we are focused on the individual and many of us are not very social, group rituals are not mandatory. When you add to that the fact that often groups would dilute the focus of the ritual, and some of us just don't get along with each other very well, our groups tend to be small, and solitary ritual tends to be common.

I kind of like a combination of both. You worship in groups for the social aspect and because it creates a lot of good energy. You worship alone because there is, as far as I can see, no real spiritual growth in a group situation.

In Wicca, and other Pagan religions, sexual activity is considered part of the worship process, at least for some of the Sabbats. And while masturbation is considered a natural sexual expression, the sexual rites in Wicca usually involve two people, one representing god and one representing goddess (in gay covens same sex expression still represents god and goddess) - kind of hard to do that as a solitary.

People do religion socially becomes it makes them feel good as a community and it brings people together.

Having said that, I don't do it because I'm not really religious.

And having said that, I find pagan and other cults (like Scientology and Jehovas Witnesses) slightly off.

solitary worship is the only real worship. religeous meetings, whatever the belief, are social events, whatever ritual pretense to the contrary. be the theology mono or poly, the belief popular and conventional or esoteric and little known.

solitary worship is the only real worship. religeous meetings, whatever the belief, are social events, whatever ritual pretense to the contrary. be the theology mono or poly, the belief popular and conventional or esoteric and little known.

Wicca, and some other Pagan religions, have, as a stated purpose, the raising of energy. It's considered that you can raise energy more quickly and with greater strength in groups.

If you've attended some of the fringe Christian groups that believe in things like babbling ... excuse me, I mean speaking in tongues, then you've noticed that there is a high level of frenzied, hysterical energy present - the purpose of this is not the raising of the energy per se, but in causing a form of mass hypnosis (this is why the Phred Phelps people are so nutty, they've all been subsumed into groupthink).

The social aspects are there, but there is also a very effective element of brainwashing

You would burn in hell for daring to disobey the Flying Spahetti Monster.

This.

well raising energy is a fine thing if you're going to do something useful with it, and mindful of the costs that probability is conserved.

i voluntarily explored holyrollerism when i was 11 years old, and neopolytheism a few years back when i was in my 30s. i'm not denying there's a sense of something there. but all that sense of something, excitement, energy, well that can be a fine thing or a mostly harmless one, but the thing is, what i'm getting at, is that isn't the real kind of calm personal intimate relationship between someone and their beliefs, whatever they might happen to be.

to find, feel and experience that, one pretty much needs to be AWAY from the distraction of other awairnessess.

you know, its kind of like the difference between carrying on a serious conversation with someone on an interesting subject when you're alone with them, and trying to have the same conversation in a room full of maniacs all demanding attention at the same time.

i mean i know i'm making what is in most contexts a bit of an exageration there too, by way of illustrative example. but i think it does get to the heart of what i'm trying to say.

Well, I more addressed the question of "why do people like praying in groups" and sorta ignore the implication of "why do people who do that think it's the only way to do it?" Mainly because it's just sort of a recurring concept of a theme in which the OP comes to some revelation about some undefined, nondescript and amorphous "those people" who "do stuff" and then appear on NSG to question us about why these undefined nondescript and amorphous people do the things they do?

Why do some people view their method of worship as the correct way? ....Because they do. People have the capacity to be judgmental. Is this new? Does this need to be spelled out? I really don't know what kind of response can really be expected from that question.

Yes I see that is what you were answering, and I fully agree with you.

Eh, I prefer worshiping alone. Don't see what the big deal is if someone WANTS to worship alone, although I can understand the want to worship with others. I suppose I just feel closer when I don't have a bunch of other people around me also muttering 'Amen'.

What's wrong with solitary worship? I believe that the Gods and Goddess are everywhere, in everything. So, I do alot of solitary worship. I do celebrate the Sabbats with a group, but that's mainly for the social aspect of doing it with a group. Hey, would you pass up a chance to drink ale and eat cake? However, it seems like some people believe that the only "proper" way to worship their deity of choice is within a building. Why though? What makes the building, and worshiping in group so special? Also, why do people pray that a person will worship in such a way? Why can't they be happy that they worship the deity, just by themselves?

Are you asking why people worship the way that they want to?

Disagreements about religion? Nah, I think you must be mistaken.

You have to do it in groups so you know you are doing it right. Actually I don't think there is a reason. Yes we are social animals but I think efficiency is part of the equation, to hear different opinions, sermons, the social aspect.

With Catholics you have a trained guy and that is all he does. He is a specialist so to speak. We are encouraged to go to church and of course to pray on your own as well. So the answer is yes, no, maybe, I suppose, sometimes ...

With regard to Catholics. I suppose thinking about it further there is also communion, choir , rituals, and rites. The only place to get holy water for lack of better example is in church.

You can eat bread and drink wine at home but it is not really the same thing. The rituals make it special and therefore you need the help of the clergy. To get help from the clergy you usually need to come a specific times. Many people come on Sunday although you do not have to. Confession is another ritual that pretty much must be done with the help of the clergy as well.

What's wrong with solitary worship? I believe that the Gods and Goddess are everywhere, in everything... However, it seems like some people believe that the only "proper" way to worship their deity of choice is within a building. Why though?
I imagine these 'people' you're referring to are folks from mainstream monotheistic religions, which, generally, have theological reasons for coming together in large groups to worship their god (for a Christian perspective on this, for example, see some of the Gospels and Paul's letters to the early churches), most probably underpinned by some of the sociological reasons posters have been mentioning. However, religions such as yours, or other polytheistic or animist religions, tend to focus on more personal, solitary worship.

That's not to say, of course, that the big monotheistic religions discourage solitary worship, or that polytheistic religions discourage group worship.

On a more specific note to your OP, why do you care what other folks think of your worship? I'd wager "some people" are pretty disdainful of your whole pagan religion, never mind whether or not you celebrate your faith in a group.

As a wise man once said, "Fuck 'em if they can't take a joke."

What's wrong with solitary worship? I believe that the Gods and Goddess are everywhere, in everything. So, I do alot of solitary worship. I do celebrate the Sabbats with a group, but that's mainly for the social aspect of doing it with a group. Hey, would you pass up a chance to drink ale and eat cake? However, it seems like some people believe that the only "proper" way to worship their deity of choice is within a building. Why though? What makes the building, and worshiping in group so special? Also, why do people pray that a person will worship in such a way? Why can't they be happy that they worship the deity, just by themselves?

As a neo-pagan with no contact with covens or other groups I am a forced solitary. If I knew of a coven I would get to know them.

What's wrong with solitary worship? I believe that the Gods and Goddess are everywhere, in everything. So, I do alot of solitary worship. I do celebrate the Sabbats with a group, but that's mainly for the social aspect of doing it with a group. Hey, would you pass up a chance to drink ale and eat cake? However, it seems like some people believe that the only "proper" way to worship their deity of choice is within a building. Why though? What makes the building, and worshiping in group so special? Also, why do people pray that a person will worship in such a way? Why can't they be happy that they worship the deity, just by themselves?
Just make sure you wash your hands afterwords ;)

Just make sure you wash your hands afterwords ;)"Mama doesn't like when I sin so well
Heaven's kinda far but I swear that when I'm coming it's close..."

I often wonder why people do stuff.

My pet theory is that the more institutionalised religions stress communal worship because it strengthens the religious community, and therefore helps keep membership (and subsequent donations) high.

I think it's often done in groups to serve and strengthen each other as many religions require. Christ taught that the two most important commandments are to love God and love your neighbor. How can you love people if you're always alone? At least from a Christian point of view, church services can be seen as a way to get to know people well enough that you can serve them in their physical, emotional, and other needs. In the New Testament, James taught that pure religion is doing things like visiting widows, the fatherless, and others who are suffering -- so in a sense, the purest form of Christian worship is following Christ by serving others, whether in a church meeting or in visiting someone who has come upon bad times.

How else are we supposed to compare clothing?

How else are we supposed to compare clothing?
Isn't that was sexting is for?