NationStates Jolt Archive


Air Force One Buzzes NYC; Mayor and Citizens Not Warned

You-Gi-Owe
28-04-2009, 14:34
OMG! This is so tragic that it's funny.

Apparently, the President thought it my be a good idea for Air Force One to fly around lower Manhattan at a low level, tailed by a fighter jet, looking for all the world as if it was trying to decide which building it ought to smack into, panicking the residents of the city... all for a photo shoot.

No advance notice. Total insensitivity to the public.

The Director of Homeland Security had no idea what had happened.

And it's day 99 of the Administration. :p
Lunatic Goofballs
28-04-2009, 14:38
Epic. Kudos to him. :)
DrunkenDove
28-04-2009, 14:41
Yay!

Got a link?
Barringtonia
28-04-2009, 14:44
Did he?

Did the president order this?

Apparently he was furious when he heard about it, odd given he'd given the order I'd say.

Source with video (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/apr/28/air-force-one-new-york)
Nodinia
28-04-2009, 14:47
OMG! This is so tragic that it's funny.

Apparently, the President thought it my be a good idea for Air Force One to fly around lower Manhattan at a low level, tailed by a fighter jet, looking for all the world as if it was trying to decide which building it ought to smack into, panicking the residents of the city... all for a photo shoot.


No, I'm afraid he didn't. And you know that, hence the lack of a c&p'd newstory story or link....
Lunatic Goofballs
28-04-2009, 14:50
Aww... :(

I retract my kudos.

I would've done it.
Chef JPM
28-04-2009, 14:50
I bet the people involved didn't pay their
income taxes as well.
You-Gi-Owe
28-04-2009, 14:56
Bottom Line: It's His Goddamn Plane.
Luna Amore
28-04-2009, 14:57
On the abovetopsecret forum, Highground wrote: "Perhaps 'they' are gauging what a certain area will do in the event of such an attack in the future." I'm not sure how to feel about this idea. Granted New Yorkers would be pissed if you told them you were just testing them. But is it really a bad idea to gauge actual public response?
Luna Amore
28-04-2009, 14:58
Bottom Line: It's His Goddamn Plane.You seem to be missing this part:

President Barack Obama was furious, a White House official who did not wish to be identified told the Associated Press.Are you expecting him to be all knowing?
greed and death
28-04-2009, 15:01
You seem to be missing this part:

Are you expecting him to be all knowing?

The buck stops with the president.
or is that only when someone you don't like is in office?
The article isn't specific with what he is furious about either.
Was he mad about the flight or was he mad about the lack of public notice.
Ashmoria
28-04-2009, 15:05
The buck stops with the president.
or is that only when someone you don't like is in office?
The article isn't specific with what he is furious about either.
Was he mad about the flight or was he mad about the lack of public notice.
well i guess we'd better impeach him then.

has the whitehouse guy who ordered it resigned yet? i dont know what his duties are but its a pretty big mistake.
Barringtonia
28-04-2009, 15:05
The buck stops with the president.
or is that only when someone you don't like is in office?

That's fair enough, if this had happened under Bush he'd be dismissed as an idiot.

Doesn't make it 'his' fault under either scenario despite bias.

They alerted everyone, from the NYPD to the mayor's office - they asked for it not to be released to the media or public, most likely for protection purposes.

It was a stupid idea though, have they not heard of photoshop, how much did that photo opportunity cost?
Dragontide
28-04-2009, 15:05
Maybe they were testing to see if scaring people cures the swine flu like it cures the hiccups.

LG we would know it would be your plane because it would be painted like a Pink Floyd album cover. Wouldnt it?
:p
Lunatic Goofballs
28-04-2009, 15:08
Maybe they were testing to see if scaring people cures the swine flu like it cures the hiccups.

LG we would know it would be your plane because it would be painted like a Pink Floyd album cover. Wouldnt it?
:p

It would also be dropping pies on the unsuspecting populace below. ;)
The Romulan Republic
28-04-2009, 15:12
The buck stops with the president.
or is that only when someone you don't like is in office?

If Obama authorized something this stupid, he made a hell of a mistake. But he is not a God, and he cannot be faulted if someone does something retarded out side of his control. If their was no way he could have reasonably been expected to know or prevent it, he can only be judged on his response after the fact. I'm not going to judge him without more knowledge of what happened.

The article isn't specific with what he is furious about either.
Was he mad about the flight or was he mad about the lack of public notice.

What the flying fuck? Are you actually insinuating that Obama is "furious" because he didn't cause a bigger panic or something? Do you think the President is a cartoon super villain?
greed and death
28-04-2009, 15:19
If Obama authorized something this stupid, he made a hell of a mistake. But he is not a God, and he cannot be faulted if someone does something retarded out side of his control. If their was no way he could have reasonably been expected to know or prevent it, he can only be judged on his response after the fact. I'm not going to judge him without more knowledge of what happened.

The people inside his administration are in his control though.


What the flying fuck? Are you actually insinuating that Obama is "furious" because he didn't cause a bigger panic or something? Do you think the President is a cartoon super villain?

LULWUT
I said is he mad the event happened. Or is he mad that the public wasn't notified.
You-Gi-Owe
28-04-2009, 15:24
Just heard an audio clip on the radio, while driving into work. The loud noise of the jet engines. People screaming, "OMG! OMG!" Etcetera.
Yenke-Bin
28-04-2009, 15:27
From Cnn:

http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/04/27/low.flying.plane/index.html

NEW YORK (CNN) -- A White House official apologized Monday after a low-flying Boeing 747 spotted above the Manhattan skyline frightened workers and residents into evacuating buildings.
Witnesses reported seeing the plane circle over the Upper New York Bay near the Statue of Liberty.


The huge aircraft, which functions as Air Force One when the president is aboard, was taking part in a classified, government-sanctioned photo shoot, the Federal Aviation Administration said.

"Last week, I approved a mission over New York. I take responsibility for that decision," said Louis Caldera, director of the White House Military Office. "While federal authorities took the proper steps to notify state and local authorities in New York and New Jersey, it's clear that the mission created confusion and disruption."

Witnesses reported seeing the plane circle over the Upper New York Bay near the Statue of Liberty before flying up the Hudson River. It was accompanied by two F-16s.

Two officials told CNN the White House Military Office was trying to update its file photos of Air Force One. The officials said the president was angry when he learned Monday afternoon about the flight, which sparked fear in the New York-New Jersey area.

"The president was furious about it," one of the officials said. The incident outraged many New Yorkers, including Mayor Michael Bloomberg. iReport.com: Share your photos, video and reaction to low-flying 747

"First thing is, I'm annoyed -- furious is a better word -- that I wasn't told," he said, calling the aviation administration's decision to withhold details about the flight "ridiculous" and "poor judgment."

"Why the Defense Department wanted to do a photo op right around the site of the World Trade Center defies the imagination," he said. "Had we known, I would have asked them not to." Video Watch the White House respond to questions about the scare »

"I was here on 9/11," said iReporter Tom Kruk, who spotted the plane as he was getting coffee Monday morning and snapped a photo. Kruk called the sight of the aircraft low in the sky "unsettling."

Linda Garcia-Rose, a social worker who counsels post-traumatic stress disorder patients in an office just three blocks from where the World Trade Center towers once stood, called the flight an "absolute travesty."

"There was no warning. It looked like the plane was about to come into us," she said. "I'm a therapist, and I actually had a panic attack."


Garcia-Rose, who works with nearly two dozen post-traumatic stress disorder patients ages 15 to 47, said she was inundated with phone calls from patients Monday morning.

"They're traumatized. They're asking 'How could this happen?' They're nervous. Their anxiety levels are high," she said.

Garcia-Rose is considering filing a class-action suit against the government for sanctioning the plane's unannounced flight. "I believe the government has done something really wrong," she said.

Capt. Anna Carpenter of Andrews Air Force Base said local law enforcement agencies and the Federal Aviation Administration had been given notice of the exercise.

New York Police Deputy Commissioner Paul J. Browne said the department had been alerted to the flight by the federal agency "with directives to local authorities not to disclose information about it."

Sen. Chuck Schumer echoed the mayor's sentiments in a separate news conference Monday afternoon, saying the Federal Aviation Administration should have notified the public to avoid panic.
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"It is absolutely outrageous and appalling to think that the FAA would plan such a photo shoot and not warn the public, knowing full well New Yorkers still have the vivid memory of 9/11 sketched in their minds," the New York Democrat said. Schumer said the FAA's decision to not announce the fly-by "really borders on being either cruel or very very stupid."

Building evacuations also took place across the Hudson River in Jersey City, New Jersey
Dragontide
28-04-2009, 15:31
It would also be dropping pies on the unsuspecting populace below. ;)

Which is why you REALLY should have ran for president in 2008! I would have baked some pies for local rallies! :D

So it looks like the word was sent out but got lost in somebody's inbox. Figures!
:(
The Romulan Republic
28-04-2009, 15:35
The people inside his administration are in his control though.

Does he magically know every action they undertake before hand? The US Government is a complex system, and Obama is not a god.

LULWUT
I said is he mad the event happened. Or is he mad that the public wasn't notified.

Sorry, miscommunication. I thought you were saying that Obama might have been mad that the public didn't take greater notice of the event when it was happening. And if it sounds stupid that I would interpret it that way, put this conversation in the context of the shear flood of stupidity and insanity from the GOP, right up advocating secession. In other words, I've learned to expect inane accusations.
Farnhamia Redux
28-04-2009, 15:40
Miscommunication, indeed. Apparently everyone in NYC was informed except the Mayor and the general public. And I seem to recall reading that the FAA told the NYPD not to alert people, probably thinking an announcement would cause an uproar. I mean, come on, what were they thinking? No one would notice two F-16s chasing a 747 around New York City? Yeah, happens everyday, right.
Urghu
28-04-2009, 15:41
Does he magically know every action they undertake before hand? The US Government is a complex system, and Obama is not a god.


What???? :confused: I thought he was...

Obama should also take responsibility for every action that any soldier takes and every other action that anybody in the administration make.
The Romulan Republic
28-04-2009, 15:43
What???? :confused: I thought he was...

Obama should also take responsibility for every action that any soldier takes and every other action that anybody in the administration make.

By that logic, if a random marine in Bagdad cracks and guns down a family, Obama is a war criminal as a result of that act?

It is only fair to judge him negatively if something bad happens as a result of his orders and/or negligence, or if he fails to take appropriate action in response after the fact.
Myrmidonisia
28-04-2009, 15:45
OMG! This is so tragic that it's funny.

Apparently, the President thought it my be a good idea for Air Force One to fly around lower Manhattan at a low level, tailed by a fighter jet, looking for all the world as if it was trying to decide which building it ought to smack into, panicking the residents of the city... all for a photo shoot.

No advance notice. Total insensitivity to the public.

The Director of Homeland Security had no idea what had happened.

And it's day 99 of the Administration. :p
No big surprise about the DHS 'maven'. But then, the Obama administration does have more of a September 10 mentality.
The Romulan Republic
28-04-2009, 15:48
No big surprise about the DHS 'maven'. But then, the Obama administration does have more of a September 10 mentality.

I suppose by "September 10th mentality," you mean that he hasn't embraced torture, pissing off our allies, and engaging in preemptive attacks based on false pretenses as nessissary for the security of America?

Yes, that's a mentality I can live with.
Heikoku 2
28-04-2009, 15:48
No big surprise about the DHS 'maven'. But then, the Obama administration does have more of a September 10 mentality.

Again with that catchphrase? Republicans pushed an unwarranted WAR using 9/11 based on intelligence they KNEW AND MADE to be faulty, and YOU have the unbridled GALL to criticize US?
greed and death
28-04-2009, 15:48
Does he magically know every action they undertake before hand? The US Government is a complex system, and Obama is not a god.

What policy guidance has Obama set out for the use of Airforce one ?
Say what you want about the previous administration they were smart enough to never buzz new york. Moreover the Obama administrations appointment of Louis Caldera is fault in itself. I served in the army while he was Secretary of the army from 1999 to 2001. He even gave a speech at a function I "volunteered" to be an usher at. That guy is a tool box and makes Bush look like a rocket scientist.

So yes I would hold Obama responsible for putting a self serving, dumb ass in charge of Air force one.

What disciplinary measures will be taken against Louis Caldera ? doubly so if there was policy violation. Hopefully public pressure is enough to fire this guy and replace him with someone isn't looking for the next Photo Opt.



Sorry, miscommunication. I thought you were saying that Obama might have been mad that the public didn't take greater notice of the event when it was happening. And if it sounds stupid that I would interpret it that way, put this conversation in the context of the shear flood of stupidity and insanity from the GOP, right up advocating secession. In other words, I've learned to expect inane accusations.

no problem it happens. At first I thought i made a typo.
Myrmidonisia
28-04-2009, 15:50
Again with that catchphrase? Republicans pushed an unwarranted WAR using 9/11 based on intelligence they KNEW AND MADE to be faulty, and YOU have the unbridled GALL to criticize US?
Let's separate the war and the September 11 attack. The attacks on September 11 should have been detected in the planning stages and never allowed to happen. Lax policies will allow a repeat.
Luna Amore
28-04-2009, 15:51
What policy guidance has Obama set out for the use of Airforce one ?
Say what you want about the previous administration they were smart enough to never buzz new york. Moreover the Obama administrations appointment of Louis Caldera is fault in itself. I served in the army while he was Secretary of the army from 1999 to 2001. He even gave a speech at a function I "volunteered" to be an usher at. That guy is a tool box and makes Bush look like a rocket scientist.

So yes I would hold Obama responsible for putting a self serving, dumb ass in charge of Air force one.

What disciplinary measures will be taken against Louis Caldera ? doubly so if there was policy violation. Hopefully public pressure is enough to fire this guy and replace him with someone isn't looking for the next Photo Opt.



no problem it happens. At first I thought i made a typo.I'd hold Obama's feet to the fire if he doesn't actually respond to this and reprimand Caldera.
The Romulan Republic
28-04-2009, 15:52
Let's separate the war and the September 11 attack. The attacks on September 11 should have been detected in the planning stages and never allowed to happen. Lax policies will allow a repeat.

What policies has Obama enacted that cause lax security? Please, name them.
greed and death
28-04-2009, 15:54
I'd hold Obama's feet to the fire if he doesn't actually respond to this and reprimand Caldera.

Id prefer he fire him. He is a prick. He is always looking for a Photo opt to push his next promotion. As soon as the picture(with soldiers and their families) is taken he would end a conversation mid sentence and go to the next person to get a photo with.
Khadgar
28-04-2009, 15:54
Let's separate the war and the September 11 attack. The attacks on September 11 should have been detected in the planning stages and never allowed to happen. Lax policies will allow a repeat.

The only policies tight enough not to allow a repeat would be throwing every man woman and child in the country into maximum security prison.
Heikoku 2
28-04-2009, 15:54
Let's separate the war and the September 11 attack. The attacks on September 11 should have been detected in the planning stages and never allowed to happen. Lax policies will allow a repeat.

And dickwaving, pursuing distraction wars and ignoring allies would have CREATED a repeat. Bush didn't separate the bloodshed and 9/11. Why should I?
greed and death
28-04-2009, 15:55
What policies has Obama enacted that cause lax security? Please, name them.

appointing Louis Caldera
Luna Amore
28-04-2009, 15:55
Id prefer he fire him. He is a prick. He is always looking for a Photo opt to push his next promotion. As soon as the picture(with soldiers and their families) is taken he would end a conversation mid sentence and go to the next person to get a photo with.Firing could work too.
Heikoku 2
28-04-2009, 15:56
appointing Louis Caldera

Well, that's better than Bush, that allowed 9/11 to happen by *existing*.
Lunatic Goofballs
28-04-2009, 15:56
Let's separate the war and the September 11 attack. The attacks on September 11 should have been detected in the planning stages and never allowed to happen. Lax policies will allow a repeat.

'Lax policies' as you define them means liberty and privacy as I define them. The occasional terrorist attack is a small price to pay for that liberty. Assuming one is of the opinion that the post 9/11 policies of paranoia and prejudice were what secured the country and that removing them is a return to 'lax policies'. Which is an assumption I don't share.
Myrmidonisia
28-04-2009, 15:57
What policies has Obama enacted that cause lax security? Please, name them.
Failure to control the borders. Failure to expel illegals in this country. Appointing a DHS head that doesn't realize improper border crossings is a crime.
Urghu
28-04-2009, 15:57
By that logic, if a random marine in Bagdad cracks and guns down a family, Obama is a war criminal as a result of that act?

It is only fair to judge him negatively if something bad happens as a result of his orders and/or negligence, or if he fails to take appropriate action in response after the fact.

Yes, I forgot to add <irony> tag...
Lunatic Goofballs
28-04-2009, 15:58
And dickwaving, pursuing distraction wars and ignoring allies would have CREATED a repeat. Bush didn't separate the bloodshed and 9/11. Why should I?

You know, dickwaving would be a lot more amusing if you one were required to engage in the literal act when engaging in the figurative act. *nod*
greed and death
28-04-2009, 15:58
'Lax policies' as you define them means liberty and privacy as I define them. The occasional terrorist attack is a small price to pay for that liberty. Assuming one is of the opinion that the post 9/11 policies of paranoia and prejudice were what secured the country and that removing them is a return to 'lax policies'. Which is an assumption I don't share.

A Sad day LG.

I am going to have to PIE board you until you change your mind.
What is more sad is afterwords you will likely never be able to look at a pie with out shitting your pants and vomiting.
Heikoku 2
28-04-2009, 15:59
Failure to control the borders. Failure to expel illegals in this country. Appointing a DHS head that doesn't realize improper border crossings is a crime.

Myrmi, this might come as a shock to you, but 9/11 wasn't perpetrated by Mexicans.
Lunatic Goofballs
28-04-2009, 15:59
Failure to control the borders. Failure to expel illegals in this country. Appointing a DHS head that doesn't realize improper border crossings is a crime.

I didn't realize he enacted them. I thought that's how it's always been. :p
Khadgar
28-04-2009, 16:00
Failure to control the borders.Bush didn't do that either. Wanna cry about him? Failure to expel illegals in this country.Bush didn't do that either. Wanna cry about him? Appointing a DHS head that doesn't realize improper border crossings is a crime. That's not what was said. Crossing the border is not illegal. The method of crossing determines it's legality.
Lunatic Goofballs
28-04-2009, 16:00
A Sad day LG.

I am going to have to PIE board you until you change your mind.
What is more sad is afterwords you will likely never be able to look at a pie with out shitting your pants and vomiting.

That's gonna take an awful lot of pies.
Tmutarakhan
28-04-2009, 16:11
The attacks on September 11 should have been detected in the planning stages
They WERE. A report on it was put on W's desk, but he ignored it.
Heikoku 2
28-04-2009, 16:16
They WERE. A report on it was put on W's desk, but he ignored it.

And yet Myrmi faults OBAMA with a "Sept. 10 mentality".
greed and death
28-04-2009, 16:27
That's gonna take an awful lot of pies.

the price of pies has spiked 100% as I prepare.
The Parkus Empire
28-04-2009, 16:31
By that logic, if a random marine in Bagdad cracks and guns down a family, Obama is a war criminal as a result of that act?

Since he foolishly chooses to continue the war there? yes.
Khadgar
28-04-2009, 16:34
Since he foolishly chooses to continue the war there? yes.

I. . . you. . . he. . .


http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i212/Kerrah_photos/Exploding-head.gif
The Parkus Empire
28-04-2009, 16:35
I. . . you. . . he. . .


http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i212/Kerrah_photos/Exploding-head.gif

...Has no withdrawal plans for a good deal of the force...at least according to his own site.
Gift-of-god
28-04-2009, 16:41
They WERE. A report on it was put on W's desk, but he ignored it.

Do you have a source for this?
Wilgrove
28-04-2009, 17:09
Let's separate the war and the September 11 attack. The attacks on September 11 should have been detected in the planning stages and never allowed to happen. Lax policies will allow a repeat.

They were, they were detected by the Clinton administration and the Bush administration. Neither administration took proper steps though.

Failure to control the borders. Failure to expel illegals in this country. Appointing a DHS head that doesn't realize improper border crossings is a crime.

Bush didn't do any of those things either. He didn't control the borders, he didn't expel the illegals, and I think his brother is married to a Hispanic woman.
The Parkus Empire
28-04-2009, 17:14
and I think his brother is married to a Hispanic woman.

*slaps face* So the problems is Hispanics in general, not illegal immigration?
Wilgrove
28-04-2009, 17:17
*slaps face* So the problems is Hispanics in general, not illegal immigration?

Ok I need to clarify myself again. Politicians are not going to do anything about the illegal immigration problem, because they want the Hispanic vote, and it's going to be hard to get when you ship 12 million out of the country and the legal ones are going to be pissed that you shipped out their family member.

So they spew rhetoric about solving the illegal immigration problems, but honestly they're just going to half ass it.
Intangelon
28-04-2009, 17:18
Bottom Line: It's His Goddamn Plane.

I see, so you'd know the whereabouts of every government asset were you President, would you?

That said, how hard would it have been for Louis C. to tell the mayor and have the mayor tell people that EXACTLY at X time, AF1 + escort will be over the city. Do not panic. The overflight will circle here and here and last X minutes. Thank you.

I agree that Louis should be gobsmacked, if not fired.

Let's separate the war and the September 11 attack. The attacks on September 11 should have been detected in the planning stages and never allowed to happen. Lax policies will allow a repeat.

Oh sure, NOW he says that. Where the fuck were you in 2003?
The Romulan Republic
28-04-2009, 17:18
Since he foolishly chooses to continue the war there? yes.

Are you joking?

War is not a war crime in and of itself. Nor does fighting a war make one guilty of all war crimes committed by soldiers acting without orders.

I'd have to look up the details, but to reference or paraphrase Wikipedia, I believe the principle of Command Responsibility only applies if a commander is aware of war crimes and doesn't take proper action. It does not make him responsible for every illegal action committed by some nut under his command unless he knows about it and fails to take proper action.
Wilgrove
28-04-2009, 17:21
Now back to the OP,

1. I think the New York Public should've been given notice about this. I mean comon, a Boeing 747 and two fighters flying just above Empire State Building heights across the skyline? Also since when has information and knowledge actually caused a panic?

2. That pilot must have known what he was doing, and must have gotten some special clearance from the FAA to do this. Because the tallest building in New York is the Empire State Building (1,250ft) According to FAA regulation, your cruise altitude should be 2,250ft or greater.

3. I am of the opinion that the guy in the Obama administration that authorize this should be fired.
Risottia
28-04-2009, 17:21
OMG! This is so tragic that it's funny.

Apparently, the President thought it my be a good idea for Air Force One to fly around lower Manhattan at a low level

Proof that O'Bama did order that or it's just the n-th rant of the m-th disgruntled Republican.


Btw: "might", not "my". The first is a verb, the latter is an adjective.
Farnhamia Redux
28-04-2009, 17:23
Ok I need to clarify myself again. Politicians are not going to do anything about the illegal immigration problem, because they want the Hispanic vote, and it's going to be hard to get when you ship 12 million out of the country and the legal ones are going to be pissed that you shipped out their family member.

So they spew rhetoric about solving the illegal immigration problems, but honestly they're just going to half ass it.

Besides, has anyone ever thought about the logistics of expelling 12,000,000 people from the country? Figure 75-foot buses, 50 people per bus, the line would be 3,400 miles long.
The Parkus Empire
28-04-2009, 17:25
Are you joking?

War is not a war crime in and of itself.

In the same way that any killing is: Generally acceptable for self-defense purposes, but should be condemned when used otherwise.

If one is letting (paying, even) a bunch of fellows to meander in another country--a bunch of fellow carrying guns designed to kill humans--one should take responsibility for their actions.
Wilgrove
28-04-2009, 17:26
Besides, has anyone ever thought about the logistics of expelling 12,000,000 people from the country? Figure 75-foot buses, 50 people per bus, the line would be 3,400 miles long.

We could always use the Airbus 380, which seats 525 people in standard three-class configuration.
Galloism
28-04-2009, 17:26
2. That pilot must have known what he was doing, and must have gotten some special clearance from the FAA to do this. Because the tallest building in New York is the Empire State Building (1,250ft) According to FAA regulation, your cruise altitude should be 2,250ft or greater.

Unless you request and receive a special flight permit, the rule is as follows: In populated areas, except as necessary for takeoff and landing, you must maintain 1,000 feet above any object within 2,000 feet horizontally of the aircraft.

That includes towers, bridges, guide wires, etc.

3. I am of the opinion that the guy in the Obama administration that authorize this should be fired.

Not a bad idea. The person who dispensed the special flight permit from the FAA should be looked at too. Perhaps not fired, but reprimanded and told to use some damn discretion.
Farnhamia Redux
28-04-2009, 17:27
We could always use the Airbus 380, which seats 525 people in standard three-class configuration.

I must say I hadn't thought of using aircraft, I sort of figured the Fiscally Conservative among us would want to do this on the cheap.
Wilgrove
28-04-2009, 17:28
Unless you request and receive a special flight permit, the rule is as follows: In populated areas, except as necessary for takeoff and landing, you must maintain 1,000 feet above any object within 2,000 feet horizontally of the aircraft.

That includes towers, bridges, guide wires, etc.

Correct you are sir! :)

Not a bad idea. The person who dispensed the special flight permit from the FAA should be looked at too. Perhaps not fired, but reprimanded and told to use some damn discretion.

Really, beside why the fuck do we need a photo op of AF1 in front of the Statue of Liberty?

I'm more of a Concorde man myself.
Wilgrove
28-04-2009, 17:29
I must say I hadn't thought of using aircraft, I sort of figured the Fiscally Conservative among us would want to do this on the cheap.

Eh, it'd probably be cheaper to use aircrafts in the long run, you can ship out more people per aircraft, and use up less fuel overall.
Farnhamia Redux
28-04-2009, 17:29
Correct you are sir! :)



Really, beside why the fuck do we need a photo op of AF1 in front of the Statue of Liberty?

I'm more of a Concorde man myself.

Is there no one in the entire Federal government who knows Photoshop?
Farnhamia Redux
28-04-2009, 17:31
Eh, it'd probably be cheaper to use aircrafts in the long run, you can ship out more people per aircraft, and use up less fuel overall.

We'd still need almost 23,000 of them. Well, that many flights, anyway. I wonder how fast they can turn one of those around?
Wilgrove
28-04-2009, 17:32
Is there no one in the entire Federal government who knows Photoshop?

Either there isn't, or no one bothered to ask.
Wilgrove
28-04-2009, 17:33
We'd still need almost 23,000 of them. Well, that many flights, anyway. I wonder how fast they can turn one of those around?

Hmm, that is a good question.
Urghu
28-04-2009, 17:35
We'd still need almost 23,000 of them. Well, that many flights, anyway. I wonder how fast they can turn one of those around?

Hey, that's a great way to save the airline companies!
Galloism
28-04-2009, 17:37
Correct you are sir! :)

Well, I was just saying you could fly below 2,000ft in NYC, just not within 2,000 feet of the empire state building.

What some people don't realize is that the FARs (federal aviation regulations) apply to everyone that flies in the United States of America - regardless of what country they're from, civilian or military. If a fighter pilot doing maneuvers breaks the FARs without falling under 91.3 authority, he can be cited and his license revoked by the FAA.

Really, beside why the fuck do we need a photo op of AF1 in front of the Statue of Liberty?

I'm more of a Concorde man myself.

The Concorde's French isn't it?
Farnhamia Redux
28-04-2009, 17:38
Either there isn't, or no one bothered to ask.

That was almost the first thing I thought of. I mean, come on, Myrmi's probably got a shot of Air Force One circling Barad-Dur as his wallpaper.
Wilgrove
28-04-2009, 17:53
The Concorde's French isn't it?

Concorde was actually a joint effort between the British and French government.
Intangelon
28-04-2009, 17:56
The Concorde's French isn't it?

French/English. Hence the name. It's also not flying anymore, and won't ever again.
Wilgrove
28-04-2009, 17:56
Well, I was just saying you could fly below 2,000ft in NYC, just not within 2,000 feet of the empire state building.

What some people don't realize is that the FARs (federal aviation regulations) apply to everyone that flies in the United States of America - regardless of what country they're from, civilian or military. If a fighter pilot doing maneuvers breaks the FARs without falling under 91.3 authority, he can be cited and his license revoked by the FAA.

You are correct again. Honestly I don't know why the public wasn't made aware of this, I don't think it would've caused a panic, I think it would've prevented a panic. At least people of NY would know why Air Force 1 is flying so low, and being escorted by two fighters.
Khadgar
28-04-2009, 18:35
Either there isn't, or no one bothered to ask.

I'll bet the Associated Press could lend them someone.
Tmutarakhan
28-04-2009, 18:43
Do you have a source for this?GoG, one more time: I read newspapers. If you only want online sources, you can Google just as easily as I can. The title of the report sent to Bush was "Bin Laden Determined to Strike Within the United States". It has been widely discussed.
Sdaeriji
28-04-2009, 18:52
What photo op requires Air Force One to fly low over downtown Manhattan? This stinks of incompetency from top to bottom. I'm not going to blame Obama for something that he probably didn't have anything directly to do with, but he really needs to get Caldera's resignation if he wants to come out of this without looking poorly.
Katganistan
28-04-2009, 19:04
Not quite true.

Apparently The White House informed NYPD, which gave the go ahead. The White House did NOT inform Mayor Bloomberg, and the NYPD didn't either -- which I can understand. You'd think that The White House WOULD have run it past the Mayor of NYC. It's the Mayor's Office that would have contacted the media to announce the flight.

A mistake. A harrowing one, but a mistake nonetheless.

Now: proof that Obama set this up?

Bottom Line: It's His Goddamn Plane.
No, it's not. It's the United States Air Force's plane, which he sometimes uses for travel.

The people inside his administration are in his control though.
Well, the posters in the forum are under moderation control, right, so we can prevent them from flaming and breaking the rules instead of just warning and punishing after the fact, right?
Yeah. I thought so.
Wilgrove
28-04-2009, 19:11
You know, I wonder if there was a NOTAM (Notice to Air Men) for this photo op.
Katganistan
28-04-2009, 19:16
Failure to control the borders. Failure to expel illegals in this country. Appointing a DHS head that doesn't realize improper border crossings is a crime.
Oh? What did Bush do to throw illegals out of the country? What did he do to prevent them coming in?

See I love when all these problems that are left over from the REPUBLICANS' control of the country for the past near decade are blamed on a 90-day-old administration.

As I recall, militias started patrolling the border because they felt Bush's government wasn't doing enough to protect it?!

*slaps face* So the problems is Hispanics in general, not illegal immigration?
Of course. Them dirty Spanish-speaking brown people are first cousins to them dirty Arabic-speaking, Allah-worshiping brown people.

They're all alike! They're not REAL AMERICANS!
Wilgrove
28-04-2009, 19:19
Of course. Them dirty Spanish-speaking brown people are first cousins to them dirty Arabic-speaking, Allah-worshiping brown people.

They're all alike! They're not REAL AMERICANS!

I did clarify myself Kat....
Myrmidonisia
28-04-2009, 19:26
Oh? What did Bush do to throw illegals out of the country? What did he do to prevent them coming in?

See I love when all these problems that are left over from the REPUBLICANS' control of the country for the past near decade are blamed on a 90-day-old administration.

As I recall, militias started patrolling the border because they felt Bush's government wasn't doing enough to protect it?!


Of course. Them dirty Spanish-speaking brown people are first cousins to them dirty Arabic-speaking, Allah-worshiping brown people.

They're all alike! They're not REAL AMERICANS!
If you can find an instance where I ever defended GWB's immigration policy, well, I don't know what. But you can't -- that's the point.

In fact, I'd like to settle this once and for all. If you can find any instance where I defended anything but his anti-terror actions, i.e. war in Iraq/Afghanistan, or his tax cuts, I'll be very surprised.

I'd like to understand why everyone here is so binary. Either you love Obama or you love Bush. If you criticize one, you must love the other. It just doesn't work that way.
Myrmidonisia
28-04-2009, 19:30
You know, I wonder if there was a NOTAM (Notice to Air Men) for this photo op.
Notams are published every 28 days. I'm betting there was something like a TFR over the area.

Why don't you look it up on DUATS?
Gift-of-god
28-04-2009, 19:31
...The attacks on September 11 should have been detected in the planning stages and never allowed to happen...
They WERE. A report on it was put on W's desk, but he ignored it.

...The title of the report sent to Bush was "Bin Laden Determined to Strike Within the United States". It has been widely discussed.

That memo does not discuss any detection of the Sept.11th attacks, in the planning stages or otherwise.

...asked whether there was any "reassuring" information in the memo, Rice replied: "Certainly not.... But I can also tell you that there was nothing in this memo that suggested that an attack was coming on New York or Washington, D.C. There was nothing in this memo as to time, place, how or where."

The memo's release supports Rice on that latter point. Brief, broad and at times hazy, it does not cite intelligence on any specific plot.

Link. (http://www.defenddemocracy.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=11773045&Itemid=348)
Wilgrove
28-04-2009, 19:33
Notams are published every 28 days. I'm betting there was something like a TFR over the area.

Why don't you look it up on DUATS?

This is what AOPA turned up.

http://www.aopa.org/whatsnew/notams.html#ny

http://www.aopa.org/images/whatsnew/newsitems/2006/notams/6-3495.gif
Myrmidonisia
28-04-2009, 19:55
This is what AOPA turned up.

http://www.aopa.org/whatsnew/notams.html#ny


I hate New York City. We used to fly into Bethpage all the time and the only ATC that I hate more than NY Center is LA Center.
Lackadaisical2
28-04-2009, 20:04
I'd be surprised if theres any hard evidence, that will be released that Obama knew about it, but it seems hard to believe, as the most important passenger on a plane, that you wouldn't be appraised of your destination for the day. Whenever I take a flight to somewhere I'm always told pretty much exactly whats going on, I don't see why the president would be any different, especially as something like this may very well risk his life (frankly I find it strange it had to be ariforce one, its not like you can see him in the photographs they took...).
Bears Armed
28-04-2009, 20:11
I'm not sure how to feel about this idea. Granted New Yorkers would be pissed if you told them you were just testing them. But is it really a bad idea to gauge actual public response?It would be if one of them had "invested" in a surface-to-air missile... ;)
Tmutarakhan
28-04-2009, 20:15
it seems hard to believe, as the most important passenger on a plane, that you wouldn't be appraised of your destination for the day.
He was nowhere near the scene. (Note: the story says it was one of the planes that WOULD be called "Air Force One", IF the President were on board-- he wasn't.)
Liuzzo
28-04-2009, 20:17
OMG! This is so tragic that it's funny.

Apparently, the President thought it my be a good idea for Air Force One to fly around lower Manhattan at a low level, tailed by a fighter jet, looking for all the world as if it was trying to decide which building it ought to smack into, panicking the residents of the city... all for a photo shoot.

No advance notice. Total insensitivity to the public.

The Director of Homeland Security had no idea what had happened.

And it's day 99 of the Administration. :p

Wrong, wrong, and wrong again. Every agency knew about the event including the mayor, the CIA, FBI, Parks police, NJ State Police etc. This has been done before with several landmarks such as the Statue of Liberty (another time) the Grand Canyon, etc. They update file photos of Air Force One ever few years. The operation even had a codename Venus1. Now we can argue over whether it was a great move or not, but you are starting from a falsehood.

http://www.nj.com/news/ledger/jersey/index.ssf?/base/news-13/1240891545162850.xml&coll=1
Lackadaisical2
28-04-2009, 20:19
He was nowhere near the scene. (Note: the story says it was one of the planes that WOULD be called "Air Force One", IF the President were on board-- he wasn't.)

Arggh, you're right. Well then that just makes it even more stupid to not notify people of the flight. At least it makes it a lot less likely Obama didn't know then.
Tmutarakhan
28-04-2009, 20:25
Well then that just makes it even more stupid to not notify people of the flight.
They did notify some people, like the NYPD and some other agencies, but told them not to tell the general public-- the reasons for this are unclear.
Liuzzo
28-04-2009, 20:27
Let's separate the war and the September 11 attack. The attacks on September 11 should have been detected in the planning stages and never allowed to happen. Lax policies will allow a repeat.

Right, if only someone had gotten a memo entitled "Bin Laden determined to strike inside the US." It would have talked about hijacking commercial airlines and everything. The only thing it wouldn't do is name the targets. If only...
Lackadaisical2
28-04-2009, 20:27
They did notify some people, like the NYPD and some other agencies, but told them not to tell the general public-- the reasons for this are unclear.

I would guess because of this:

It would be if one of them had "invested" in a surface-to-air missile...

Only instead of a terrified New Yorker it was a terrorist *shrugs*
Katganistan
28-04-2009, 20:31
I'd be surprised if theres any hard evidence, that will be released that Obama knew about it, but it seems hard to believe, as the most important passenger on a plane, that you wouldn't be appraised of your destination for the day. Whenever I take a flight to somewhere I'm always told pretty much exactly whats going on, I don't see why the president would be any different, especially as something like this may very well risk his life (frankly I find it strange it had to be ariforce one, its not like you can see him in the photographs they took...).
He was not on the plane.

http://www.nypost.com/seven/04272009/news/regionalnews/obama_plane_photo_op_startles_new_yorker_166470.htm

He was in Washington.
Katganistan
28-04-2009, 20:33
Wrong, wrong, and wrong again. Every agency knew about the event including the mayor, the CIA, FBI, Parks police, NJ State Police etc. This has been done before with several landmarks such as the Statue of Liberty (another time) the Grand Canyon, etc. They update file photos of Air Force One ever few years. The operation even had a codename Venus1. Now we can argue over whether it was a great move or not, but you are starting from a falsehood.

http://www.nj.com/news/ledger/jersey/index.ssf?/base/news-13/1240891545162850.xml&coll=1
Uh, no. Mayor Bloomberg said quite clearly he knew nothing about it. Please read the article.
Lacadaemon
28-04-2009, 20:34
I thought it was funny. I was driving down the west side just after it happened. It was funny to see the people running out of BCP all upset and shit.

Hopefully Obama is trying to toughen NYers up. They need it.
Barringtonia
28-04-2009, 20:35
Uh, no. Mayor Bloomberg said quite clearly he knew nothing about it. Please read the article.

If you read the original article I linked on the first page, and I probably should have quoted a few paragraphs, the mayor's office was told, whoever was told never told the Mayor himself, probably, seemingly like most people involved, no one really thought of the likely reactions.

I'm not sure where the source of that statement came from, and I do hold a question mark over it since Mayor Bloomberg hasn't, not that I've checked, confirmed this.
Liuzzo
28-04-2009, 20:36
Uh, no. Mayor Bloomberg said quite clearly he knew nothing about it. Please read the article.

My mistake Kat. I missed that when I read it in print form. I've got it in front of me now and see the error.
Katganistan
28-04-2009, 20:43
I thought it was funny. I was driving down the west side just after it happened. It was funny to see the people running out of BCP all upset and shit.

Hopefully Obama is trying to toughen NYers up. They need it.
Really? http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/04/27/air-force-one-backup-rattles-new-york-nerve/

But the exercise — conducted without any notification to the public — caused momentary panic in some quarters and led to the evacuation of several buildings in Lower Manhattan and Jersey City. By the afternoon, the situation had turned into a political fuse box, with Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg saying that he was “furious” that he had not been told in advance about the flyover. I guess the people of Jersey City need toughening up too?

The people of Oklahoma City?
The people of London?
Madrid?

Really, what an asinine thing to say.
JuNii
28-04-2009, 20:47
Seems clear to me he didn't know.

The MAYOR didn't know, but it sounds like someone in his Office did.
Barringtonia
28-04-2009, 20:49
Seems clear to me he didn't know.

I didn't say he did, I was adding a minor point.

From the first article you linked, which was the same as mine..

The FAA also alerted an official in the mayor's office, but he didn't tell Bloomberg, who said he first learned about it when his "BlackBerry (mobile phone) went off crazy with people complaining about it".

My minor point is that the Mayor's office was told, he didn't get the message from his own office.
Katganistan
28-04-2009, 20:59
I didn't say he did, I was adding a minor point.

From the first article you linked, which was the same as mine..



My minor point is that the Mayor's office was told, he didn't get the message from his own office.
Knowing the mayor, whomever was responsible for that is probably brushing off his resume.
Dyakovo
28-04-2009, 20:59
I'd be surprised if theres any hard evidence, that will be released that Obama knew about it, but it seems hard to believe, as the most important passenger on a plane, that you wouldn't be appraised of your destination for the day. Whenever I take a flight to somewhere I'm always told pretty much exactly whats going on, I don't see why the president would be any different, especially as something like this may very well risk his life (frankly I find it strange it had to be ariforce one, its not like you can see him in the photographs they took...).

He wasn't on the plane.
The Black Forrest
28-04-2009, 21:01
:)

I will take that over what Poppy Bush did when he visited. 1/2 the city was blocked off so he could drive around. A 10 minute drive took 1 1/2 hours
Bears Armed
28-04-2009, 21:09
Really? http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/04/27/air-force-one-backup-rattles-new-york-nerve/
But the exercise — conducted without any notification to the public — caused momentary panic in some quarters and led to the evacuation of several buildings in Lower Manhattan and Jersey City. By the afternoon, the situation had turned into a political fuse box, with Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg saying that he was “furious” that he had not been told in advance about the flyover.

I guess the people of Jersey City need toughening up too?
Any business that was affected by this should sue the person who sent the plane over for that loss of earnings...
You-Gi-Owe
29-04-2009, 14:21
Any business that was affected by this should sue the person who sent the plane over for that loss of earnings...
Gee, Obama is the President... Air Force One is His ride... You think maybe they should sue Him? Might be fun! Then, of course, the folks who think he walks on water would really come out of the woodwork on the audacity of "The Right" and their persecution of a black man.
greed and death
29-04-2009, 14:23
Any business that was affected by this should sue the person who sent the plane over for that loss of earnings...

I doubt a loss of a days profits will cover the court cost.
Lunatic Goofballs
29-04-2009, 14:29
Gee, Obama is the President... Air Force One is His ride... You think maybe they should sue Him? Might be fun! Then, of course, the folks who think he walks on water would really come out of the woodwork on the audacity of "The Right" and their persecution of a black man.

I like you. You're silly. :)
You-Gi-Owe
29-04-2009, 14:36
I like you. You're silly. :)

Hey, I'm an eclectic guy. I enjoy your stuff, too:wink:
The Atlantian islands
29-04-2009, 16:40
:)

I will take that over what Poppy Bush did when he visited. 1/2 the city was blocked off so he could drive around. A 10 minute drive took 1 1/2 hours
This is getting old, fast.

With every day that passes, the excuse "Well, I'll take what Bush did over that!" means less and less. Bush did some bad shit, but that doesn't make a hypothetical Obama blunder any less bad.

Seriously, people need to stop looking for other people to cast blame on, it's retarded.

That being said, I have no idea who's fault this is, because it seems Obama wasn't in the plane so that probably means it wasn't exactly him authorizing it . . .
Myrmidonisia
29-04-2009, 16:45
This is getting old, fast.

With every day that passes, the excuse "Well, I'll take what Bush did over that!" means less and less. Bush did some bad shit, but that doesn't make a hypothetical Obama blunder any less bad.

Seriously, people need to stop looking for other people to cast blame on, it's retarded.

That being said, I have no idea who's fault this is, because it seems Obama wasn't in the plane so that probably means it wasn't exactly him authorizing it . . .
Personally, I'm starting to like the renegade Air Force pilot theory. It's almost as complicated as the single bullet theory.
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090428155344AAjO83j
The Atlantian islands
29-04-2009, 16:47
Personally, I'm starting to like the renegade Air Force pilot theory. It's almost as complicated as the single bullet theory.
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090428155344AAjO83j

That seems like just spreading rumors for the sake of spreading rumors. Reminds me of this Colbert skit:

http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/222213/march-19-2009/bill-posey-alligator-rumors
The Black Forrest
29-04-2009, 18:12
This is getting old, fast.

With every day that passes, the excuse "Well, I'll take what Bush did over that!" means less and less. Bush did some bad shit, but that doesn't make a hypothetical Obama blunder any less bad.

Seriously, people need to stop looking for other people to cast blame on, it's retarded.

That being said, I have no idea who's fault this is, because it seems Obama wasn't in the plane so that probably means it wasn't exactly him authorizing it . . .

Wow. I am truly amazed you can find things that are not there.

Comparing the two, I think the Presidents "stunt" still would have kept my drive to 10 minutes or so.

Seriously, thinking every post is an attempt to place blame is pretty retarded.
Lackadaisical2
29-04-2009, 19:46
He wasn't on the plane.

Kat and someone else already beat you to it. At least some is being reading my postings :) *sniff* even just to dogpile on me over misreading :(
Trve
29-04-2009, 19:49
As the stupidity of the American right grows further, looking for whatever they can use to chip away at the growing popularity of a president they despise but are powerless to oppose.

Your angst sustains me.
You-Gi-Owe
29-04-2009, 20:54
As the stupidity of the American right grows further, looking for whatever they can use to chip away at the growing popularity of a president they despise but are powerless to oppose.

Your angst sustains me.

Give me a break. The unhinged Left in this nation looked for any excuse that they could find to ridicule President Bush. Does anyone recall hearing how stupid the left thoght the jokes, "nuke-you-ler" and "mis-underestimating" were and dragged it on and on and ad infinitum? The unhinged Left is just as thin-skinned as they believe their opponents are. President Obama is simply reaping the mistakes of goofs that are occuring during his Presidency.
Trve
29-04-2009, 20:58
Give me a break. The unhinged Left in this nation looked for any excuse that they could find to ridicule President Bush. Does anyone recall hearing how stupid the left thoght the jokes, "nuke-you-ler" and "mis-underestimating" were and dragged it on and on and ad infinitum? The unhinged Left is just as thin-skinned as they believe their opponents are. President Obama is simply reaping the mistakes of goofs that are occuring during his Presidency.

I dont recall anyone saying that Bush's inability to speak made him a bad person/president.

That, and Bush actually did those things. Its on camera. Most of what the right has to attack Obama with is suspect at best.

We all lol'd when Obama misspoke about travelling to all 57 states in the Union. I know you wish there was a double standard, but the hard line right wing's hypocrisy and double standards are not shared by their political opponents, and just saying it over and over again doesnt make it any more true.
No Names Left Damn It
29-04-2009, 21:04
the hard line right wing's hypocrisy and double standards are not shared by their political opponents, and just saying it over and over again doesnt make it any more true.

I disagree. There are probably just as many hypocritical hard line leftists.
The One Eyed Weasel
29-04-2009, 21:47
Here's a thought:

What if they did it to gauge public panic? I mean, why else would they do it? They couldn't be that stupid I would think.

Now why they would want to gauge public reaction, I don't know.
Santiago I
29-04-2009, 22:06
Obama rocks. You guys have no sense of humor.
Dyakovo
29-04-2009, 22:32
Kat and someone else already beat you to it. At least some is being reading my postings :) *sniff* even just to dogpile on me over misreading :(

Yeah, I noticed that after the fact...
You-Gi-Owe
30-04-2009, 01:03
I dont recall anyone saying that Bush's inability to speak made him a bad person/president.

That, and Bush actually did those things. Its on camera. Most of what the right has to attack Obama with is suspect at best.

We all lol'd when Obama misspoke about travelling to all 57 states in the Union. I know you wish there was a double standard, but the hard line right wing's hypocrisy and double standards are not shared by their political opponents, and just saying it over and over again doesnt make it any more true.

Have you been in the U.S.A. during President Bush's administration? Under a rock, waiting for this President Obama administration.

The left-leaning entertainment industry was in high gear. Googling a phrase like, "Comedians Call Bush Stupid", yeilds things like comments by Russell Brand, Doug Ferrari, and a Youtube video "George Bush Stupid Moments on David Letterman".

Just denying it over and over again doesn't make it any less true.
Trve
30-04-2009, 01:06
Have you been in the U.S.A. during President Bush's administration? Under a rock, waiting for this President Obama administration.

The left-leaning entertainment industry was in high gear. Googling a phrase like, "Comedians Call Bush Stupid", yeilds things like comments by Russell Brand, Doug Ferrari, and a Youtube video "George Bush Stupid Moments on David Letterman".

Just denying it over and over again doesn't make it any less true.

Reading isnt your strong point, is it noobcakes?

No one said that Bush not being able to talk made him a bad person/president. Where as during the primaries, you couldnt listen to any Republican without hearing "OMG OBAMA SAID THERE WERE 57 STATES HE IS UNFIT TO LEAAAAAAAAAAAD!!!"

Besides, theyre fucking comedians. They make jokes. About everything. Its their job. If their jokes hurt your delicate feelings, change the channel.
You-Gi-Owe
30-04-2009, 01:24
Reading isnt your strong point, is it noobcakes?

No one said that Bush not being able to talk made him a bad person/president. Where as during the primaries, you couldnt listen to any Republican without hearing "OMG OBAMA SAID THERE WERE 57 STATES HE IS UNFIT TO LEAAAAAAAAAAAD!!!"

Besides, theyre fucking comedians. They make jokes. About everything. Its their job. If their jokes hurt your delicate feelings, change the channel.

And rational argument isn't your forte', since you feel the need for the juvenile tactic of name-calling.

I personally, believed that President Obama was, and remains, an empty suit. The 57 states WAS classic... reminiscent of the original and infinitely better, "Manchurian Candidate" movie.

But comedians, and actors such as Sean Penn, Tim Robbins, the ladies on "The View", have an effect on our popular culture. Denying that would also be futile.
Trve
30-04-2009, 01:33
And rational argument isn't your forte', since you feel the need for the juvenile tactic of name-calling.
Do I need to go back and find all the shots youve made? Im being far more rational then you are.
I personally, believed that President Obama was, and remains, an empty suit.
Good for you. I dont care what you think. Especially when you have nothing to back it up but your angst.
The 57 states WAS classic... reminiscent of the original and infinitely better, "Manchurian Candidate" movie.
Oooooh. So Obama misspeaks, and its evidence of his lack of ability. Bush misspeaks and its omg stop MAKIN FUN OF MAH PRESIDENT!
But comedians, and actors such as Sean Penn, Tim Robbins, the ladies on "The View", have an effect on our popular culture. Denying that would also be futile.
Doesnt change the fact that their role is to entertain. Their job is to pick at little things.

I notice you also have no evidence of anyone saying Bush's little 'bushisms' are evidence of him being a bad person/president.
You-Gi-Owe
30-04-2009, 01:53
Do I need to go back and find all the shots youve made? Im being far more rational then you are.
You're welcome to look for them... oh, I may have described the Left as "unhinged", but I've made no personal attacks

Oooooh. So Obama misspeaks, and its evidence of his lack of ability. Bush misspeaks and its omg stop MAKIN FUN OF MAH PRESIDENT!You're the one who brought up President Obama's mis-speak. Please don't be upset, the majority of all politicians appear to be empty suits.

Doesnt change the fact that their role is to entertain. Their job is to pick at little things.
And this kind of psychological sniping is both effective and insidious to the general public.

I notice you also have no evidence of anyone saying Bush's little 'bushisms' are evidence of him being a bad person/president.
Oh, I don't believe it's evidence that President Bush was a bad preson/president. I believe it's an overt attempt to influence the weak-minded and inexperienced. Sean Penn called the former President "evil".

ANYWAY, Somehow, Air Force One flew over NYC at about 1000 feet, scaring the living daylights out of the city's population, the buck stops at the President and I'm enjoying a little schattenfreud.
Trve
30-04-2009, 01:58
You're the one who brought up President Obama's mis-speak. Please don't be upset, the majority of all politicians appear to be empty suits.
I brought it up as a comparison because you were over there crying about how mean it was that the evil left made fun of 'bushisms'. You then said 'yeah that proves he's an empty suit!'

So, either misspeaking is evidence of inability, meaning bushisms were also relevent, or theyre not evidence of such, in which case your whining should stop.

Not that it will. If there is one thing conservatives are good at lately (and there really is only ONE thing theyre good at lately), its whining.
And this kind of psychological sniping is both effective and insidious to the general public.
So comedians should stop making fun of leaders then? Or only your leaders?
Oh, I don't believe it's evidence that President Bush was a bad preson/president. I believe it's an overt attempt to influence the weak-minded and inexperienced. Sean Penn called the former President "evil".
And was Sean Hannity's bringing up of the '57 states' remark the same thing? Or is it only an attempt to infuence the weak minded when its your president whose being mocked?
ANYWAY, Somehow, Air Force One flew over NYC at about 1000 feet, scaring the living daylights out of the city's population, the buck stops at the President and I'm enjoying a little schattenfreud.
I love 'the buck stops at the president'. Usually, the people who say it mean 'the buck stops at the other guy's president'.
Intangelon
30-04-2009, 02:00
You're welcome to look for them... oh, I may have described the Left as "unhinged", but I've made no personal attacks

Oh, the Right's unhinged, too. Plenty.

You're the one who brought up President Obama's mis-speak. Please don't be upset, the majority of all politicians appear to be empty suits.

Perhaps.

And this kind of psychological sniping is both effective and insidious to the general public.

Insidious? Comedians?

Oh, I don't believe it's evidence that President Bush was a bad preson/president. I believe it's an overt attempt to influence the weak-minded and inexperienced. Sean Penn called the former President "evil".

And that's an actor. So what?

ANYWAY, Somehow, Air Force One flew over NYC at about 1000 feet, scaring the living daylights out of the city's population, the buck stops at the President and I'm enjoying a little schattenfreud.

Enjoying everything but how to spell what you're enjoying. Then again, your continued presentation of posts laced with intellectual laziness is so manifest that it doesn't surprise me you didn't bother to either Google or use an online dictionary to figure out "schadenfreude."
You-Gi-Owe
30-04-2009, 02:02
I love 'the buck stops at the president'. Usually, the people who say it mean 'the buck stops at the other guy's president'.
No, I blame Bush for Bush mistakes, Just like I blame Obama for Obama mistakes.

Ciao! Time to get some supper!
You-Gi-Owe
30-04-2009, 05:16
Oh, the Right's unhinged, too. Plenty.While I wish I could deny this (emotionally), (intellectually) I gotta admit that we have our "black sheep", too.

Enjoying everything but how to spell what you're enjoying. Then again, your continued presentation of posts laced with intellectual laziness is so manifest that it doesn't surprise me you didn't bother to either Google or use an online dictionary to figure out "schadenfreude."
Actually, I did attempt a Google, and I don't know how I got that spelling that time. Life can be hectic. However, credit where credit is due, you have the correct spelling.
Bears Armed
30-04-2009, 12:06
I doubt a loss of a days profits will cover the court cost.How about many of the businesses concerned sharing the costs, in a 'class action suit'?
Intangelon
30-04-2009, 16:57
While I wish I could deny this (emotionally), (intellectually) I gotta admit that we have our "black sheep", too.

I know how you feel. Remember, we have Cynthia McKinney, Howard Dean, and a lot of Hollywood.

Actually, I did attempt a Google, and I don't know how I got that spelling that time. Life can be hectic. However, credit where credit is due, you have the correct spelling.

No worries.

I claim the advantage of having German relatives.
Myrmidonisia
30-04-2009, 17:53
I know how you feel. Remember, we have Cynthia McKinney, Howard Dean, and a lot of Hollywood.



No worries.

I claim the advantage of having German relatives.

And how we've enjoyed Crazy Cindy's absence from Atlanta. In fact, she's been remarkably quiet, now that she can't bully Capital policemen.
Technonaut
10-05-2009, 06:19
Seems that the aide that ordered the op resigned...
Linky (http://uk.reuters.com/article/UKNews1/idUKTRE54815320090509)
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - A White House military aide who authorized an Air Force flyover of New York that caused panic among some people in the city resigned on Friday.

Louis Caldera said in a resignation letter to President Barack Obama that the controversy over the mission -- a photo shoot of a jumbo jet used as Air Force One with the Statue of Liberty in the background -- made it impossible for him to lead the White House Military Office.

The flight over lower Manhattan for a photo shoot scared some New Yorkers who remembered the September 11 attacks in 2001 involving hijacked airliners that destroyed the World Trade Centre. Some people panicked and evacuated office buildings when the planes flew over.

Caldera had approved the mission. His resignation came on the same day Defence Secretary Robert Gates said in a letter to Senator John McCain that the photo shoot cost U.S. taxpayers as much as $357,000 (236, 691 pounds).

White House spokesman Robert Gibbs said Obama had accepted the resignation. Obama had been described as furious when the incident occurred on April 27 and demanded a review.

McCain, who lost to Obama in last year's presidential election and is the ranking Republican on the Senate Armed Services Committee, called the incident an "Air Farce 1 photo op."

The report of the review, also released on Friday, said ultimately Caldera did not notify relevant White House officials about the flyover in advance.

"When asked why he failed to do so, he did not offer a coherent explanation. He stated that it was not a conscious decision -- he did not intend not to notify them," it said. "Instead, he suggested that it may have been an oversight."

Also released was a photo of the Air Force jet over the Statue of Liberty from the mission.

Gates, providing details demanded by McCain in the wake of the incident, said the cost of a jumbo jet that is used as the president's plane, Air Force One, was estimated between $300,658 and $328,835.

The cost of two accompanying F-16 jets was $28,177 for a total of $357,012, Gates said.

REGRETS ANXIETY AND ALARM

The Air Force's presidential airlift group planned the April 27 flight in part to get pictures of the planes flying with the Statue of Liberty and the New York skyline as a backdrop.

Gates said in his letter the reaction to the low-flying planes was understandable and "we deeply regret the anxiety and alarm that resulted from this mission."

Gates said the photo shoot was only part of the planes' mission, which also included practice instrument approaches and landings at Atlantic City International Airport.

The entire mission had been coordinated with officials from the Federal Aviation Administration and air traffic control representatives in the New York area, he wrote.

"I am concerned that this highly public and visible mission did not include an appropriate public affairs plan nor adequate review and approval by senior Air Force and DOD (Department of Defense) officials," Gates said.

He said the incident was being reviewed carefully by defense officials.


Have to say the bolden is kind of troubling, how does one just forget to notify key people that one is doing this...
Intangelon
11-05-2009, 03:31
Seems that the aide that ordered the op resigned...
Linky (http://uk.reuters.com/article/UKNews1/idUKTRE54815320090509)


Have to say the bolden is kind of troubling, how does one just forget to notify key people that one is doing this...

Wow, so someone in this administration makes a grievous error, and they resign! Like within a couple of weeks! There's change I can believe in.
Ashmoria
11-05-2009, 03:34
Wow, so someone in this administration makes a grievous error, and they resign! Like within a couple of weeks! There's change I can believe in.
its a good sign but its not like the guy was secretary of defense or anything. the change might not hold for the big boys should they get into similar trouble.
Intestinal fluids
11-05-2009, 04:37
Obama exlained that the incident was the kids joyriding Air Force One thru Manhattan. Groundings have been issued, nothing more to see here.
The Black Forrest
11-05-2009, 04:45
its a good sign but its not like the guy was secretary of defense or anything. the change might not hold for the big boys should they get into similar trouble.

At least it's something.

Did anybody complain when the shrub used an aircraft carrier for a political moment? How much did that cost?

Does this justify New York? No but it's interesting to see who is "wagging their finger" at this incident.
Intangelon
11-05-2009, 05:09
Obama exlained that the incident was the kids joyriding Air Force One thru Manhattan. Groundings have been issued, nothing more to see here.

Ain't it great to have a President whose sense of humor can hang with the White House Correspondents?
You-Gi-Owe
11-05-2009, 05:16
Seems that the aide that ordered the op resigned...


Why am I skeptical that this resignation? Could it be that the alternative was to be fired?
greed and death
11-05-2009, 08:19
Why am I skeptical that this resignation? Could it be that the alternative was to be fired?

Normally when your in that high of a position your given the option of resignation rather than being fired. they encourage it pretty heavily, this is due to being fired sometimes being a lengthy process.


Anyways, that being said the issue with air force one is resolved with the deuce responsible out of a position to do it again.
The Black Forrest
11-05-2009, 09:37
Why am I skeptical that this resignation? Could it be that the alternative was to be fired?

That's the way it usually works.

CEOs are rarely fired. They tend to resign or retire.
Intangelon
12-05-2009, 08:56
Why am I skeptical that this resignation? Could it be that the alternative was to be fired?

You're skeptical of something that is common? Of course the alternative is to be fired -- which of those two options looks worse on a résumé?
greed and death
12-05-2009, 15:51
You're skeptical of something that is common? Of course the alternative is to be fired -- which of those two options looks worse on a résumé?

yeah with a resignation he can jsut say he ahd a political disagreement with the administration. Well after everyone forgets he flew Air force one around down town New York with no warning.
Intangelon
12-05-2009, 16:00
yeah with a resignation he can jsut say he ahd a political disagreement with the administration. Well after everyone forgets he flew Air force one around down town New York with no warning.

Nobody interviewing him will forget. It is hoped, however, that it can be forgiven. The guy had a career before this.
greed and death
12-05-2009, 18:03
Nobody interviewing him will forget. It is hoped, however, that it can be forgiven. The guy had a career before this.

I was in the army when he had his career before that, he was a fucktard only concerned with a photo opt so he could use it to get a promotion.