NationStates Jolt Archive

I'm finally done my LLB, and the prospect of having to do anymore schooling (unfortunately likely) at this point makes me want to curl up in a fetal position and cry. So what is it that you don't like about being a student? The crushing poverty? The constant hangovers? The boredom of class?

I figure paying for knowledge is pretty dumb but then again I'm not a student so I could be way off the mark there.

What annoys me is that you could learn most of the crap you pick up in post-secondary on your own, and more in depth...but post-secondary is all about status. Little slips of paper that are supposed to mean u r smart. The problem is, an education doesn't guarantee that you're not a fucking moron.

I figure paying for knowledge is pretty dumb but then again I'm not a student so I could be way off the mark there.I don't think you're actually paying for knowledge, you're paying for specialised access. And you're paying for that parchment at the end of it.

Yes the small amount of money, the amount of assignments I have to do which wouldn't be so bad if I wasn't a procrastinator, the 9am lectures, the shit coffee being sold by the uni stores.

There will be more, and I might just make some sort of prose out of it.

I currently get paid for being a student. I love having a grant :D

Before that, what got me through is simply the love of learning. I really liked my course and was good at it. But then I'm going to be heading into research after I finish this degree.

On the other hand once I finish my PhD the idea of going back and doing another one does fill me with horror, it really does.

So what is it that you don't like about being a student? The crushing poverty?

Never had that.

The constant hangovers?

Never did that.

The boredom of class?

Okay, ya got me there! :tongue:

I've done a few stints as a student over the last 20 years, and I've thoroughly enjoyed them all. In fact, I've found that I enjoy them more as time goes on, and I'm actively considering going back again if the employment market doesn't sort itself out between now and the end of Summer (which, let's face it, isn't looking likely).

It might just be me though, because I've had a lot of friends who hated student life. Perhaps I'm just peculiar.

What annoys me is that you could learn most of the crap you pick up in post-secondary on your own, and more in depth...but post-secondary is all about status. Little slips of paper that are supposed to mean u r smart. The problem is, an education doesn't guarantee that you're not a fucking moron.

More or less how I see it. I would prefer to learn for the sake of learning itself not some ends to a mean, not for some dumb piece of paper that'll mean dick all the apocalypse hits.

Never had that.

Never did that.

Never had the crushing poverty and never had a hangover. Mmmm I think there is some sort of correlation here. :)

More or less how I see it. I would prefer to learn for the sake of learning itself not some ends to a mean, not for some dumb piece of paper that'll mean dick all the apocalypse hits.

It does change what you could be doing when it does, however. I want to go out in style. :tongue:

Never had the crushing poverty and never had a hangover. Mmmm I think there is some sort of correlation here. :)

And being sober is also what makes classes so boring. :tongue:

Any downsides of being a student are counteracted by the fact that I am getting funded to research the areas of knowledge I dearly love.

I'd rather be a student than have 95% of paying jobs.

I'd rather be a student than have 95% of paying jobs.

Of course, as you'd be pretty overstretched trying to do 95% of the world's paying jobs. :tongue:

It does change what you could be doing when it does, however. I want to go out in style. :tongue:

I don't think post-secondary teaches you anything about driving that tanker full of sand as a diversion. That is something learned through first hand experience and if it's all the same to you, I'll drive that tanker. ;)

Please don't conflate a love of learning with post-secondary education. Hmmm. Perhaps it's like this...once something becomes a job, you may still enjoy it, but not quite as much as when it was just something you did? I keep finding myself back at school, and I'm always excited at the beginning, oh this time it'll be different, I'll be inspired and I won't skip...but no. I get into class, the excitement wears off, and I realise...I don't have to work very hard, this isn't much of a challenge, and the people I'm in school with sort of annoy me. Why the fuck do I keep doing it? I can learn things at a much faster pace when I'm genuinely interested.

I won't lie...the status, and the earning potential that comes along with it is great. It's a bit harder to prove that you're qualified for certain things without that degree...and for other things you simply can't work in the field unless you've had the formal training. But I know too many people who are professional students, and while I certainly have nothing bad to say about their interests in that regard, the thought of doing that myself is enough to make me run screaming. I can't stand it!

When I work, I don't procrastinate nearly as much, because you can't really get away with it. Other people are depending on you. With school, the only one who is going to suffer is yourself, and for me that means writing 25 page papers on the day they're due, and other such stupid shit.

Maybe they just stretch it out too much. I don't think an LLB needs to be 3 years.

Of course, as you'd be pretty overstretched trying to do 95% of the world's paying jobs. :tongue:
Boom boom!

I love student life except for the crushing poverty. Got my loan and grant through today. Once I take rent and bills away I've got about £500 to last me the whole summer...

Any downsides of being a student are counteracted by the fact that I am getting funded to research the areas of knowledge I dearly love.

I'd rather be a student than have 95% of paying jobs.

Ditto. I think this may be why I still love it - I don't have to go to classes, write essays, take exams or any of that shit. I get to direct my own research project into an area I am genuinly enthusiastic about. And though some of it may get me down on occassion, the fact is I will probably never get the chance to just concentrate on one bit research project for 3 years, without having to overly worry about teaching, paperwork, grant applications, demands from employers/funding bodies etc...

I currently get paid for being a student. I love having a grant :D
If only. I get a measly student loan that won't even cover my rent.

What I don't like is student culture, which tends to revolve around either drinking, drinking or drinking. Or all three. Given that I don't like 90% of alcoholic drinks and don't like being drunk, I'd rather give it a miss.

I'm such a killjoy.:p

I don't mind the drinking culture. At all :P I mind that just because people got into post-sec, it doesn't mean they're at all interesting or fun to be around.

I'm finally done my LLB, and the prospect of having to do anymore schooling (unfortunately likely) at this point makes me want to curl up in a fetal position and cry. So what is it that you don't like about being a student? The crushing poverty? The constant hangovers? The boredom of class?

Stop complaining and get a job and rot in it for a few decades. Then you will realize how good you have it now.

I love student life except for the crushing poverty. Got my loan and grant through today. Once I take rent and bills away I've got about £500 to last me the whole summer...

£500 of alcohol and maccas should last you the summer. :tongue:

What I don't like is student culture, which tends to revolve around either drinking, drinking or drinking. Or all three. Given that I don't like 90% of alcoholic drinks and don't like being drunk, I'd rather give it a miss.


Oh don't get me wrong. I didn't even get a student loan for my undergrad, survived on a bit of support from parents and a part time/summer job. And not all student culture surrounds drinking - I personally ended up getting in with a lot of the geek crowds (because I am one) and doing lots and lots of roleplaying rather than drinking (also cheaper :D).

It's only my PhD I've managed to get a grant for. And I'm tahnkful because I don't think i could do it AND a part time job.

£500 of alcohol and maccas should last you the summer. :tongue:

Here's hoping! Or I could pay my family quite a few visits over summer and stay with them for a couple of weeks!

Here's hoping! Or I could pay my family quite a few visits over summer and stay with them for a couple of weeks!

Actually I did that one year, free meals (and good ones at that) the entire time. The only problem was that I couldn't do what I would normally do if I wasn't staying with them.

Oh don't get me wrong. I didn't even get a student loan for my undergrad, survived on a bit of support from parents and a part time/summer job. And not all student culture surrounds drinking - I personally ended up getting in with a lot of the geek crowds (because I am one) and doing lots and lots of roleplaying rather than drinking (also cheaper :D).

It's only my PhD I've managed to get a grant for. And I'm tahnkful because I don't think i could do it AND a part time job.
Why didn't you get a student loan, if you don't mind my asking? I can't think offhand any reason that the government can refuse one.

Not having a summer job this summer is going to make things interesting, although I have savings and support from my parents. My job at Sheffield is pocket money anyway, given that there aren't many home matches now (I work at a football ground), the hours are short and the pay minimum wage.

And: whoever says the North is cheaper than the South hasn't lived there.

I love student life except for the crushing poverty. Got my loan and grant through today. Once I take rent and bills away I've got about £500 to last me the whole summer...
:eek2:

Why didn't you get a student loan, if you don't mind my asking? I can't think offhand any reason that the government can refuse one.

And: whoever says the North is cheaper than the South hasn't lived there.

My parents, despite being British, live outside the UK (Belgium) so I count as an EU student, so I don't get a loan. It sucks, but could have been worse. Could have been living outside the EU and thus counted as an international student.

And tell me about it, though I'd say it's cheaper than London, York is still an expensive place for the North and not that cheaper than the South.

bah try working

or getting a bill for £2.5K from the open university for a shitty one year course when every other course is at most £500 :mad:

Once I take rent and bills away I've got about £500 to last me the whole summer...

you' know most people your age earn that in about 2 weeks tops :p

What I don't like is student culture

this.

you students may not realize it but when you shout out "thats so random lol" everyone in the bar/pub/city wants to kill you

Tests Tests and Tests. The rest of it I'm pretty much good with. Learning is nice and since very few things in this world are free I'm willing to pay something for classes. Although I do wish books where a little more reasonable.

And the drinking is related to tests the more tests you have and the harder they are the more you need a drink at the end of the week.

this.

you students may not realize it but when you shout out "thats so random lol" everyone in the bar/pub/city wants to kill you

Yep, cause it is only students that say this too.

Do they actually shout out "lol" or do they laugh out loud?

I hate the tests. I'm a fantastic exam writer. It's ridiculous, and unfair. I can literally not attend a class all semester, cram three hours before the exam and score very high. What kind of bullshit is that? Do I actually know my stuff? Somewhat yes, but not with any real depth. So when the course mark is based on a 100% final, how is it fair that I can score that well putting in so little effort, while people who actually know their shit, yet can't write decent exams, score low?

I mean, I'm not complaining THAT much. Just saying it doesn't spur me on to try harder.

Stop complaining and get a job and rot in it for a few decades. Then you will realize how good you have it now.

Shut the fuck up. I can complain all I want.

And unlike many students, I've actually worked. A lot. I can't wait to get the fuck out of school and actually develop my skills rather than wallow in theory. I hated studying to be a teacher, I loved BEING a teacher. I'm assuming ditto with the law.

Well, I'm not a student any more, but the fact that I was paying so much for "tuition" wasn't very pleasing, considering that a lecture was basically like a human textbook, only you can't re-read confusing passages, and my internal monologue doesn't constantly go "um", or "ah", or speak in a strong accent.

And I had to buy real paper textbooks as well.

So what is it that you don't like about being a student? The crushing poverty? The constant hangovers? The boredom of class?

Mandatory attendance coupled with no intellectual challenge.


As ironic as that may sound coming from an NSGer, I hate the feeling of wasting time. I'm a good learner and interested in my subject(s). If they only let me work at my pace, I'd have learned double the amount of what I've learned now in a third of the time, and felt reasonably happy. This way, they make me attend seminars that go at a snail's pace, make me write exams whose questions barely scratch the surface of things, and ask me to be grateful that they hand me my diploma after 3/4th of the time.

i hate being a student. then i look at the economy and content myself with being a student.

I loved everything about being a student except going to classes.

I hated sitting for an hour or better in an unventilated, stuffy room full of sweaty beasts listening to someone drone on about something that could have been interesting. I hated having to regurgitate other people's ideas all while stifling my own. I especially hated math, which could have been interesting if only the instructors actually had any comprehension of what they were doing.

Homework and studying, or, to put it more precisely, the fact that there are no actual barriers between class and every other time. I've loved working over the summers because there is a clear boundary between work and leisure: be at X place by 9 AM, go home at 5 PM and goof off until 9 AM the next day. Unless it is a weekend, and then you're free (honestly free) for two days.
As a student, I always feel that there is something (studying, papers, whatever) that I should be doing. Even if I am well caught up on my work and have a two or three day buffer going, I feel like I'm procrastinating, and that makes it harder to enjoy myself.

The boredom of class?
The utter tedium of this first year, where it's all a bit easy. Cruising and getting 2:1s here -___-

That and my fellow students constantly going on about how pissed up they got the night before etc. etc.

What I hate about it is that I'm not one. I sit here and learn about things that interest me on my own, studying, being STUDIOUS, but I'm not going to get anything at the end of it that I can't derive purely from myself. I'd give anything right now to actually be at university.

That said, what I hated about being a student when I was officially one was the 6:30am start to make it out of town in time for the start of lectures... every day. (except the weekends.)

I haven't hated being a student, I've loved it. I didn't care about excessive drinking when I arrived and I don't care about it now. I've had interesting lecturers and supervisors that challenged me. If anything, I wish I could stay on.

Mandatory attendance coupled with no intellectual challenge.


As ironic as that may sound coming from an NSGer, I hate the feeling of wasting time. I'm a good learner and interested in my subject(s). If they only let me work at my pace, I'd have learned double the amount of what I've learned now in a third of the time, and felt reasonably happy. This way, they make me attend seminars that go at a snail's pace, make me write exams whose questions barely scratch the surface of things, and ask me to be grateful that they hand me my diploma after 3/4th of the time.

Agreed. Fuuuuck.

Hey wait! You're back! I guess your momma didn't raise no quitter...

I command you to go learn Cree now!

I love being a student. Speaking of being a student, I really need to get to work writing papers and studying for finals all due this week.


"Ah, wait! What's that!? My new edition of The Economist has arrived today!? Fuck studying, I'll do that shit later!" :D

Oh the other thing - all the fucking ideologically weak communists -_______-

"Oh I really support these strikes at the refineries"
"But they're racist..."
"Yeah I don't support the racism but I do support the strikes"
"Wtf are you actually supporting then"
"..."

Oh the other thing - all the fucking ideologically weak communists -_______-

"Oh I really support these strikes at the refineries"
"But they're racist..."
"Yeah I don't support the racism but I do support the strikes"
"Wtf are you actually supporting then"
"..."
I love student commies because they are easy to defeat in debate, and by looking ugly, grungy, not dressed well, unclean and unshaven, give Communsim an even worse image than it already has from killing over 100 million people! Yay!

That said, my school really doesn't have very many Communists at all. I'd say my school is fairly moderate to center-right, as far as universities go.

I love student commies because they are easy to defeat in debate
It's like beating up children tbqh. Not meine Sache in the slightest.

Oh the other thing - all the fucking ideologically weak communists -_______-

"Oh I really support these strikes at the refineries"
"But they're racist..."
"Yeah I don't support the racism but I do support the strikes"
"Wtf are you actually supporting then"
"..."
Aye, had a similar argument with some of the Stop the War folk during the 'occupations' of the various unis round the UK.

They called for a boycott of Israeli academics, which I noted was limiting freedom of speech, a rather hypocritical thing to do, seeing as Stop the War objects to the limiting of freedom of speech for Palestinians.

One bloke said that it was a 'legitimate tactic', even though it went against their principles, due to the fact that the Israeli government did it first.

Eejits.

It's like beating up children tbqh. Not meine Sache in the slightest.
I love it. I compare it to, in the game Civilization, if your civilization has progressed throughout the ages and is developed with a highly advanced military and you stumble upon a ridiculously less advanced civilization, and then proceed to unleash hell upon them, just 'cuz. :p

As a current student, I kind of like it. Sure I live in a tiny room and eat dorm food, but I'm surrounded by people who have all kinds of crazy experience in all sorts of topics. I'm not crazy about the "core classes" I have to take, because most of them don't even touch on my major, but some of them are brilliant and really open my eyes.

As for people who say I should just learn as I go, or say the diploma is just a bit of paper: you try learning Organic Chemistry on your own. What are you going to do, rent a lab and just start mixing stuff? False. Maybe if you're talking about some of the "softer" stuff where most of what you do is read, but when I start whipping out the concentrated H2SO4 and benzoic acid, I want an expert standing in the room, ya know?

As for the op, I see a lot of kids drink themselves right out of school, so I skip that. I have a pretty great scholarship, so I'm not starving (paying my own way! I feel so grown up!) And I can stay awake in all of my classes out of either interest or sheer terror.

Ah the irony... I wonder how many other students are reading this thread instead doing work they should be doing.

Incidentally, if anyone knows if the sentence "Put A on B in C" is ambiguous then I'd be much obliged. I know "A saw B in C" is ambiguous (is A in C or is B in C?)...
/hijack

edit: I would certainly say student's aren't all that poor. We have two Xboxes, 4 desktops and 3 laptops in my house of four people...

I don't get hangovers either. My body has an automatic kick in to stop me getting too drunk -- alcohol just suddenly becomes repulsive.

And the lecturers certainly help, it's not as if you can ask book questions if you get confused. And my lecturers seem to like me, even though I sass them quite a lot. Mind you they tease back quite a lot.

I love student life except for the crushing poverty. Got my loan and grant through today. Once I take rent and bills away I've got about £500 to last me the whole summer...

You're practically loaded then. I've got £400 before I hit the overdraft limit and i'm locked into spending that exact amount in the next two weeks. God I need a new job fast :p

Word counts. When you've got to write 5000 words, and you have 3,200 that express the subject perfectly, the knowledge that you're going to have to go back and purposely downgrade your own work just to meet some arbitrary limit is enough to drive me to mass murder.

What I hate is the mandatory classes where the professor forces you to participate and on top of that is always strung out on caffeine. I don't care if the class is mandatory, but if I have to take it, and I am in a foul mood, I don't want to be forced to participate. No matter how much you try and make it interactive, it's still just a class about the rules of civil procedure and how to draft the forms and paperwork. Blah.

Any downsides of being a student are counteracted by the fact that I am getting funded to research the areas of knowledge I dearly love.

Don't you study philosophy? How does that work, do you get messages like: "The Pentagon called; they need a theory of just war that supports Iraq by Friday. Get on it." Just seems like it would be one of the less cost-intensive subjects. :)

Don't you study philosophy? How does that work, do you get messages like: "The Pentagon called; they need a theory of just war that supports Iraq by Friday. Get on it." Just seems like it would be one of the less cost-intensive subjects. :)

And then he answers, in a wise yet mysterious manner:

"But . . . why?"

To which the Pentagon responds:

"Damn, son! That's the kind of productive philosophical attitude we need around here! Take some more tax-payer money!" :p

you students may not realize it but when you shout out "thats so random lol" everyone in the bar/pub/city wants to kill you

That's the real reason the drinking age in the US is 21; the professional whinos were getting tired of those swarmy punks ruining their barfly experience.

Word counts. When you've got to write 5000 words, and you have 3,200 that express the subject perfectly, the knowledge that you're going to have to go back and purposely downgrade your own work just to meet some arbitrary limit is enough to drive me to mass murder.

Depends on the department - in ours if someone comes in under the word limit and gets the right contact in we positively encourage it. We only penalise if over the word limit. Then again we are trying to get people to write more concisely and it is very rare to find a student who can manage to cover the question significantly under word limit. Those that have though have usually be 1sts or very high 2:1s

I love it. Genuinely adore whatever the wider population deem to be "student life", and hence intend to prolong it as long as possible with post-graduate study to the highest level possible. Such disadvantages as I find; mandatory classes and modules aimed to redressing lacunae in the knowledge of less interested students, and the abundance of students interested only in socialising, are far less grating than normality would be.

From my ivory tower, society at large simply strikes as too mundane for words.

Depends on the department - in ours if someone comes in under the word limit and gets the right contact in we positively encourage it. We only penalise if over the word limit.

Then ye are rare and benevolent creatures of great justice and you will almost certainly not be shot when the revolution comes. Celebrate!:p

Depends on the department - in ours if someone comes in under the word limit and gets the right contact in we positively encourage it. We only penalise if over the word limit. Then again we are trying to get people to write more concisely and it is very rare to find a student who can manage to cover the question significantly under word limit. Those that have though have usually be 1sts or very high 2:1s

Are you post-grad or genuine faculty member?

Actually I also hate word limits! How the hell am I supposed to get all my points across properly and fit more in. Stupid word limits.

Other than that and lack of money, I do love me the student life.

What annoys me is that you could learn most of the crap you pick up in post-secondary on your own, and more in depth...but post-secondary is all about status. Little slips of paper that are supposed to mean u r smart. The problem is, an education doesn't guarantee that you're not a fucking moron.

This is truth.

Here, give us loads of money....okay? Now go find out a load of stuff. If it's convenient, we'll give you some paper in a couple of years.

This is truth.

Here, give us loads of money....okay? Now go find out a load of stuff. If it's convenient, we'll give you some paper in a couple of years.

Not everyone is in that situation. I have a friend who got a free ride for four years thanks to some sort of scholarship. He told me after I was trying to find a way to earn $1,000 in a month. (I am currently unemployed.)

I think my "friend" is my least favorite part of education. Shiftless leech...

Deadlines.

Ah the irony... I wonder how many other students are reading this thread instead doing work they should be doing.

I put my hand up.

I only came on here for a few minutes it has already turned into 45.

I'm on here and facebook instead of writing a legal opinion.

Fuck I'm poor. Teh Government doesn't givvve me enough money!

Don't you study philosophy? How does that work, do you get messages like: "The Pentagon called; they need a theory of just war that supports Iraq by Friday. Get on it."

Just seems like it would be one of the less cost-intensive subjects. :)
Obviously, you're not going to get a grant from private business or specific government departments doing philosophy research, but professional philosophers and the research they do are used in a bunch of different fields.

Philosophers of mind, for example, contribute a great deal to cognitive science and AI research, while philosophers of mathematics, logicians and metaphysicians work on the theoretical side of physics, mathematics, cosmology and related areas. Moreover, academic ethicists, jurisprudists and political philosophers often play a role in formulating ethical policy for institutions; from medical ethics to educational priorities, environmental policy to the treatment of criminals.

Two examples of academic philosophers in action:

Mary Warnock has advised successive UK administrations on subjects such as broadcast standards, artificial human fertilisation, proper education for the mentally and physically disabled, vivisection and euthanasia. She can be pointed to as an important contributor to the (stated) ethics of the British state for the last thirty or so years.

John Finnis and Martha Nussbaum were called as expert witnesses, by opposing sides, in a gay-rights case eventually heard by US Supreme Court, where a great deal of the trial was given over to their debate as to whether or not the history of philosophy provided 'compelling interest' for the state of Colorado to deny homosexual couples usage of non-discriminatory laws. Their opposing testimonies were largely given over to close discussion of Plato's Laws.

Then ye are rare and benevolent creatures of great justice and you will almost certainly not be shot when the revolution comes. Celebrate!:p

Huzzah at not being the first against the wall when the revolution comes

Are you post-grad or genuine faculty member?

Post-grad - but we are the ones who mark most of your essays :p (well not yours specifically because you're a dirty humanities student - but the principle is there)

well not yours specifically because you're a dirty humanities student

I hadn't realised historians were dirty, I thought they were just odd.


Studies Music.


And, Eof, the last line in your sig seems to suggest the poster above you is female, which is amusingly applied to Chumbly at present.

Actually I also hate word limits! How the hell am I supposed to get all my points across properly and fit more in. Stupid word limits.

Other than that and lack of money, I do love me the student life.I usually will add an unimportant point, but give it considerably less space in the intro and conclusion. It puts across the point that it's not important as the other things I've written about.

But also, depending on your lecturer, just hand in the essay as is. The word count is merely meant to act as way of communicating how many points you need to make and in what detail. If you think you have an adequate amount of both then just submit the essay. I've submitted 1500 words for a 2000 limit and it wasn't considered a problem.

I hadn't realised historians were dirty, I thought they were just odd.


Studies Music.

Nah, the Comp Scis are odd...

And, Eof, the last line in your sig seems to suggest the poster above you is female, which is amusingly applied to Chumbly at present.

Well it's good for a laugh *stealth changes sig*

Nah, the Comp Scis are odd...

I recently spoke to one.

Well it's good for a laugh *stealth changes sig*

Unless you intended that in the first place? :)

I usually will add an unimportant point, but give it considerably less space in the intro and conclusion. It puts across the point that it's not important as the other things I've written about.

But also, depending on your lecturer, just hand in the essay as is. The word count is merely meant to act as way of communicating how many points you need to make and in what detail. If you think you have an adequate amount of both then just submit the essay. I've submitted 1500 words for a 2000 limit and it wasn't considered a problem.

They're a stickler for word counts here and TurnItIn has made it impossible to submit any work below the minimum word count. It's a good thing I'm about to do an essay on something I'm going to enjoy now.

What annoys me is that you could learn most of the crap you pick up in post-secondary on your own, and more in depth...but post-secondary is all about status. Little slips of paper that are supposed to mean u r smart. The problem is, an education doesn't guarantee that you're not a fucking moron.
I always look at undergrad education as 'training', as opposed to real learning. If you can work with the university system and be successful, you can be trained. If they can train you, then we can too.

Going to grad school shows more initiative and success is more correlated to one's ability to self-learn things.

What I hated about school? The exams.

I recently spoke to one.

I AM sorry :p



Unless you intended that in the first place? :)

Not quite, it was mostly because I got fed up of constantly being referred to as 'he'... this said I'm sure I can now find a lot more interesting things to put there.

I AM sorry :p

It wasn't too bad, this one could actually discuss things not related to computers.

Not quite, it was mostly because I got fed up of constantly being referred to as 'he'... this said I'm sure I can now find a lot more interesting things to put there.

I like to leave people guessing.

I'm a grad student. I get paid to go to class. Not that I have to take any classes anymore.

I'm annoyed that even though I get paid, I still have to pay tuition, even when I'm not taking classes. I'm also annoyed at my current institution because they charge for a lot of things they shouldn't (i.e. taking an extra semester to finish, transcripts etc) and the services (food etc) are practically nonexistent when the undergrads aren't around.

I'm not a huge fan of not making a lot of money despite putting in long hours and the odds of settling down in one place are not good in the medium term future.

I'm not a huge fan of not making a lot of money despite putting in long hours and the odds of settling down in one place are not good in the medium term future.

Looking to go into academia then? I get the impression that until you get tenure somewhere you have to be prepared to move half way round the world if the job comes up. Especially given the current economic climate

There's literally nothing about being a student I don't enjoy. I'm already kinda looking into how I could afford doing another degree once I've finished this one...

I don't think you're actually paying for knowledge, you're paying for specialised access. And you're paying for that parchment at the end of it.
I have to say, the access is pretty sweet. Next year I'll be having access to one of the world's leading experts in mathematical voting theory. Makes it a lot easier to get rolling on research.

I always look at undergrad education as 'training', as opposed to real learning. If you can work with the university system and be successful, you can be trained. If they can train you, then we can too.

Going to grad school shows more initiative and success is more correlated to one's ability to self-learn things.

What I hated about school? The exams.

I'd say that undergrad education is more a symbol of whether or not somone needed to get into the workplace, and going to grad school shows that you had more money than most.

I'm finally done my LLB, and the prospect of having to do anymore schooling (unfortunately likely) at this point makes me want to curl up in a fetal position and cry. So what is it that you don't like about being a student?Well, what I hate most of all is that I have enough free time to make the following kinds of posts...The crushing poverty?No. I like living on a budget. I admit, I have no dependents, or expensive hobbies, or major medical needs, and for someone with one of those, it'd be a bitch. But I have survived ok in a not-cheap city, so long as I work from the moment exams finish to the moment term begins over the summer, do part-time work in term time, and fudge on my P38S.The constant hangovers?Actually, being a student - or simply growing up - seems to have cured me of hangovers. So long as I have a class of water before I crash out, I wake up feeling bright even after many drinks. What I haven't got used to is feeling bummed out the morning after taking a pill, but I don't do it that regularly.The boredom of class?No. I'll admit I dozed through some undergrad lectures, but I fucking love seminars, and they've got even better at the postgrad level. Celtic love poems and ACW propaganda cartoons, Aquinas on Aristotle and the trade deficit...half the time I'm sitting there trying to conceal my erection with my folder. There is seriously nothing I enjoy as much as being able to discuss academic topics with people who are interested in enough to have done the reading - and the thinking - themselves. Which is why I prefer my postgrad classes: I'm not sure any of us are smarter, but we care.

So I do love being a student. I love academic culture, being in regular contact with leaders in the field, the nature of the work I do, and many other aspects of it. But many people have already said all this, so I'll try to come up with some things I hate...no, I don't like that word. Hate is something else. Some things I loathe, then (also makes a nice contrast with 'love'). For the purposes of the following, note that I am a historian-in-training in the UK, and that my field is 'American history', meaning of the USA (although my institutional setting concerns itself with the entire Americas). Obviously, some of my gripes are particular to this.

1. I loathe revision.Not exams - revision. University is about learning, whether learning new facts and approaches at the beginning, or learning new conceptual models at the end. The idea of then having six weeks off, not to learn anything new, but to go back and reread stuff we've already done, drives me insane. Granted, this may be particular to the UK, or even just to UoL, but our assessment system sucks. We should have exams at the end of term, not in a whole separate term. If we're going to have a 12-month academic year and more teaching is not an option, then everything should really end in March so we can make the research element a real priority, not something to backburn for two months while we read JStor articles we already have the notes on.2. I loathe the journal subscription system.Yes, they're expensive to make, and yes, some form of subscription is needed. But it's so wildly inconsistent and it is such a pain to have to switch between JStor, AcademicHost, and all the others, in an effort to track down issues you then find they don't archive. The Public Library of Science is a brilliant model. If only the humanities would take notice.3. I loathe 'student nights'.Putting on day-glo facepaint and twirling a plastic glowstick does not make you a raver if you end up drinking Corona and dancing to The Killers. Wearing a pirate outfit on a pub crawl does not make you a wonderfully quirky individual who's not afraid to be different: it makes you a twat. Even the notion of a night of cheap drinking targetted at students irritates me. I'd rather drink at my local with my friends - where it's pretty cheap already! Of course, obnoxious combinations and bingeing aren't prerogatives of student culture, but every promoter knows they can turn their place into a one-night meat market by nailing up a 'Student Drinks 1/2 Price on Wednesdays' sign. Every house party I have ever been to (well, almost - that gives me a thread idea, actually) has kicked the ass of every student night I have ever wasted my time at. And above all, the people who seem to go to all these things seem like the kind of people who aren't exactly watchful of their cash anyway. Wankers.4. I loathe funding applications.You knew it was coming. I agree that students shouldn't simply live off the taxpayer with no oversight. I agree that research is resource-intensive and should be justified. I agree with Howard Zinn that historians need to earn their keep. But still, I hate funding applications. Explain in five hundred words how your paper, which will be thousands of words long, will benefit the field. Actually, I can do it in two: fuck off. In any case, the way funding is organized (again, may be particular to my situation) is cocked up in the UK. Whoever runs HEFCE may be good at presenting to boards, but they clearly have no idea about the UK's research profile. The lastest block grant round hurt our most productive research centres; the ULRLS is in dire straits; and in general, this generation of postgrad going to end up in a terrible financial position.5. I loathe the dominance of the new social history.My major frustration on this probably makes me sound like a fusty conservative, which I'd like think I'm not, so I'll explain at slightly greater length. I am not a Reconstructor. Though I have an enduring respect for J.P. Diggins, I think post-Damascene-conversion Eugene Genovese is basically mad, Sean Wilentz a fool, and Gertrude Himmelfarb, in the nicest possible sense of the word, a waste of valuable oxygen. I admit that history has benefitted from anthropology and literary theory (though I've come to prefer Eric Wolf to the poststructuralists). But I do think it has gone too far.

A review of recent issues of JAH and AHR show no military history (with the exception of, you guessed it, a special section lamenting the lack of military history), no intellectual history (except something about, ding ding ding - GENDER!), almost no international or diplomatic history, and scarce little economic history (which admittedly is better served in the wider literature). We do, however, get an entire issue on Joan Scott, and a symposium on 'The Senses in American History' in which one contributor laments the phenomenon of 'ocularcentrism'. I felt like writing a letter to the editor saying just 'DO NOT WANT' with that picture of the sad cat in the shower, because that's how I felt after reading it.

Of course, by and large women, racial minorities, homosexuals, the working class, have been underrepresented in the historical literature. But we are training a generation of historians to believe there are no other possible lines of enquiry. Whenever I'm in a doubt about 'my profession', I go back to Zinn. His study of LaGuardia in Congress is a genuinely beautiful work of historical poetry. It takes in gender, it takes in ethnic interaction, it takes in the working poor and the non-working poor. And yet, an abstract of it would, ultimately, have to go back to its being a biographical study of a Dead White Man. Pick a keyword - 'masculinity' if you're a contemporary historian, 'rape' if you're a colonial historian, 'gendered' if you're a historian of language - and then do a search on jobs.ac. Then try picking something unfashionable, and notice the difference in hitcount. It should not be the case that projects basically devoid of originality get funding based on the use of buzzwords, but it is increasingly so. Let's write about African-American masculinity and the gendered language of Thomas Jefferson and colonial depictions of rape in subaltern poetry, but let's also write about the military-industrial complex's operations in Latin America and the culture of military service and the role of religion in national politics - instead of leaving that to the pop historians, the policy entrepreneurs, the commentators.6. I loathe students who play up to student stereotypes for no reason. See also above section on student nights.I eat cheap, shop cheap (when I shop at all), play cheap, by and large. But I don't revel in it. It's possible to eat a balanced diet on a budget. It's possible to enjoy cultural attractions without constantly moaning about being out of cash. London is a cultural capital, full of free things to do. Like Germaine Greer, university rid me of my Catholicism and my virginity (and my liking of Germaine Greer), yet I find it hard not to be moved when sitting in St. Martin-in-the-Fields listening to the choirs singing. I have a pin-covered map on my wall of East London's historic sights, another of its galleries. Both are only half-finished. The number of times I have had a glorious day out without spending a penny...yet I come home to find my friends eating Pot Noodle and watching Neighbours. Being cash-strapped should only limit one's options so far as one's mind allows, and I find people who deliberately try to be 'student-y' slightly more irritating than crabs.7. I loathe university computers.If anyone in this thread has ever encountered a university computer network that works, including printers that don't break the day of essay deadlines, then I will punch myself in the face.8. I loathe clueless leftists.You know how Abbie Hoffman (or Jerry Rubin, I forget which) led the Yippies, then became a Yuppy? (I'd recommend Tom Frank's Conquest of Cool if not.) Well, you can see that in action. Anarchists in black masks...and Converses. Anti-BNP campaigners who support anti-Italian protest strikes. And, while I think most of Nick Cohen's ranting is bullshit, I did on one occasion encounter - the Marxists collecting for the Taliban. Every group of people larger than just me and my stuffed goat toy (we make a great team) is going to include at least one person who I consider an idiot, or who actually is an idiot. Fine. But it does seem like a number of the groups I've been involved in - on human rights, AIDS, arms control, environmental issues - have included a particularly large contingents of people who clearly have no fucking clue, and who will quite clearly in ten years' time have switched to the right. Maybe the Hoffman comparison isn't fair: it might be more like Marxists such as Irving Kristol becoming neoconservatives.

We recently had a 'wall of protest'. This included some truly absurd 'anti-system' graffiti. If you're going to abbreviate 'neoconservative' to 'neocon', and you can't spell 'neocon', aren't you really just setting yourself up for a fall? No, the police didn't 'do 7/7', though I wish they had and whoever wrote that had been the sole victim. I talked to one of the newer members of an anti-war group I left. He lectured me about anarchism and evolution. I brought up Kropotkin. "Who?"

Too much of it seems like people deciding that because they're at university, they have to protest against certain things, which they can quietly forget about once they leave. Don't get me wrong, some of their protests are right, some are great; some of the people involved are genuine, and some are really trying. I simply don't believe that some of what they do does any good. "Let's vote to censure Jewish Society because the IDF did something. Then let's twin with a Palestinian university." Whatever my sympathies with the Palestinians - I don't think anyone can read Robert Fisk's moving account of the treatment Palestinians in Kuwait without coming to support a homeland for them - can't we have a policy of complete cultural dialogue, instead of only that directed at non-Jews? Not trying to make this thread about the Middle East, so I will leave it at: I am not convinced many of the 'student activists' I know are doing anything more than staging great Facebook pictures. OH OF COURSE! See 10.9. I loathe obnoxious rightists.Well, it's only fair.

Seriously, holding 'port and policy' meetings? Going to lectures in tweed jackets? Handing out free copies of The Road to Serfdom? Inviting Douglas Murray to speak not because you agree with him but because you know it'll annoy those that don't? I'm all for a lively political dialogue, but there is nothing quite as annoying as the Conservative Society, except maybe everyone on Earth dying of Black Death. No, wait, it'd take out the ConSoc. There really is nothing quite as annoying as them.

We're in a recession, no one wants to hear you boast about Bollinger Club exploits you got up to with your chums at Oxford, which you visit every weekend. We don't want to know how you rent in Kensington, how you have 'champagne brunches' during term-time, how you're annoyed at Daddy for not buying you a car in London. Take the bus like the rest of us. No, don't, actually, I might get whatever it is you have.

Oh, and don't hold pro-McCain rallies on election night. If you're right wing, ok, but don't pretend US Republicanism has any connection with UK Conservatism.10. I LOATHE FACEBOOK.

All in all, though, student life is the shit, and I wouldn't change a thing.

3. I loathe 'student nights.

6. I loathe students who play up to student stereotypes for no reason

7. I loathe university computers

8. I loathe clueless leftists

9. I loathe obnoxious rightists.

10. I LOATHE FACEBOOK.

Snipped for ease.

3. Yes I will have to agree with you house parties are always better than going to clubs, however, in saying that some student nights have been alright (in the sense when everybody knows you are there not to have a rave but simply to drink amongst friends) and when they have $2.50 base spirits. I will always prefer, however, to go out with friends. But when you are part of an organisation you can't deny the pub crawls.

6. While true, some really do have little money, what pisses me off more is when people go and drink $300 in alcohol over the weekend and then complain about how they can't buy their books or pay for proper food because they are a student. No you can't pay for it because you spent two weeks income over two nights. I don't mind people going out and drinking just don't say it is because university is to expensive.

7. Start punching yourself in the face.

8. Same, it is funny to listen to them and watch them. Just the other day one of the groups had a booth trying to get some more members and their simple name was resistance underneath had what they were all about mainly "Feminism, enviromentalism, anti-war (bear in mind theor logo has people holding guns), communism and socialism" Quite amusing to go and have a chat with them and see that they are just picking up words and can't even have a simple argument.

9. Can't say we have those sort of people at my university, we did have a right wing group which despite me being right wing I had to go tell off because they were wrong in one of their stances. But since I go to the most left wing university in the state (and it is bloody annoying) I don't deal with many of them but have to put up with a shitty student council who contradicts their beliefs with their actions.

10. I don't but then facebook isn't really a student thing.

Agree fully on 6. People who spend loads of money going out then claim they can't buy books...ugh.

On 10, when I started uni Facebook was student-only so I tend to associate it with that.

It really pisses me off when they talk about how they have to have two jobs which gives them no time to study and they need to work to pay for universty items. Being a uni student I know that it is utter bullshit but hey if their rantings in the media make the government increase the study allowance I will take it but I wish these students would be honest.

Really? I wasn't aware of it orginally being a student thing to begin with.

Snip of excellent ranting
2. I loathe the journal subscription system.

Oh yes, agreed.

4. I loathe funding applications.

Indeed, it kind of put me off applying for graduate courses (that and being told the amount of funding would decrease to about 20% of the former).

7. I loathe university computers.

Hmm, mine's always worked fine, though printers have rather unreliable.

9. I loathe obnoxious rightists.

Heh, you'd love Cambridge.

I was once in a large rehearsal (full orchestra and choir) and these two guys get up to leave early to go 'beagling' (hunting). Ok.... but to walk out in front of everyone wearing jacket+tie, short trousers and knee-high socks was just inviting ridicule.

Although I graduated last year, I'm still tied to my university because it grants me access to their print department and one of the only remaining letterpress workshops in the UK. I loved being a student, but I have to agree on the shitty network thing. I remember once, it took two hours to print six pages.