NationStates Jolt Archive

Remember how the Pope said homosexuals are a threat to humanity?

Well, in Iraq - that place the USA has made a bastion of freedom and democracy - some people agree. The new trend:

1. Capture a homosexual
2. Glue his buttocks together with industrial glue - impossible to remove without surgery
3. Gim him a laxative
4. Record the result and spread the images. Bonus points are awarded if the gay man dies from this.

Lovely world we live in, no ? But hey - this is no doubt pleasing to the Lord. Or Allah. Or whatever.

Sorry if the tone of this post offends anyone. I am just a tad bit angry.

A source in English (I assume that not many people here can read Dutch or Arabic):
http://www.alarabiya.net/articles/2009/04/25/71416.html

Cite?

...

So, the latest craze in religious bigotry is a slightly more sadistic form of a high school prank from The Breakfast Club?

The next time somebody tries to argue that religion is the source of morality, I'm going to barf all over them.

How many homophobes have even met any gay people? I'd venture to guess very few.

How many homophobes have even met any gay people? I'd venture to guess very few.

That word 'Homophobe' has always intriuged me. It sound like some sort of musical instrument. Now the type you blow or pluck I wonder?

How many homophobes have even met any gay people? I'd venture to guess very few.

I think they all have they just never realized he was gay.

http://lurkmore.ru/images/4/4b/1232266690738.png

Sorry if the tone of this post offends anyone. I am just a tad bit angry.


Of all the unbelievable things that Muslims do, whippings public lashings,beatings and beheadings for moral vices like being female and wanting an education or showing your face in public, what amounts to a high school prank is what makes you mad? I simply dont believe anyone is dying from this despite the articles dubious claims.

Of all the unbelievable things that Muslims do, whippings public lashings,beatings and beheadings for moral vices like being female and wanting an education or showing your face in public, what amounts to a high school prank is what makes you mad? I simply dont believe anyone is dying from this despite the articles dubious claims.

No, dicks do those things. Dicks regardless of gender, religion, race, etc. If a Muslim dick does it, it's because he's a dick, not a Muslim.

Of all the unbelievable things that Muslims do, whippings public lashings,beatings and beheadings for moral vices like being female and wanting an education or showing your face in public, what amounts to a high school prank is what makes you mad?

Yep. I am quite able to get mad over more than 1 thing. It is a gift.

I simply dont believe anyone is dying from this despite the articles dubious claims.

Feel free to give your expert medical opinion on what would happen to someone if this was done to them. If death is not possible, that would be a small upside.

...

So, the latest craze in religious bigotry is a slightly more sadistic form of a high school prank from The Breakfast Club?

The next time somebody tries to argue that religion is the source of morality, I'm going to barf all over them.

I'm not certain if I'd classify this as only slightly more sadistic - given it's ressemblance to a medieval execution method of blocking someone's anus and force-feeding them until their bowls explode (which I believe I learnt about from another NS thread a while ago - never say NS doesn't inform).

I'm not certain if I'd classify this as only slightly more sadistic - given it's ressemblance to a medieval execution method of blocking someone's anus and force-feeding them until their bowls explode (which I believe I learnt about from another NS thread a while ago - never say NS doesn't inform).

O.O

Where did they do that!?

Of all the unbelievable things that Muslims do, whippings public lashings,beatings and beheadings for moral vices like being female and wanting an education or showing your face in public, what amounts to a high school prank is what makes you mad? I simply dont believe anyone is dying from this despite the articles dubious claims.
I don't know about New York, but over here we call that 'assault'.

I don't know about New York, but over here we call that 'assault'.

Here, as well.

O.O

Where did they do that!?

Ancient Babylon apparently. If you want 'fun'* and 'interesting' execution methods, the ancient times are the best, they could get real inventive.

* And by this I mean mind-bogglingly horrible that makes your skin crawl just to think about it

Ancient Babylon apparently. If you want 'fun'* and 'interesting' execution methods, the ancient times are the best, they could get real inventive.

* And by this I mean mind-bogglingly horrible that makes your skin crawl just to think about it

'Fun' indeed. :eek2:

Of all the unbelievable things that Muslims do, whippings public lashings,beatings and beheadings for moral vices like being female and wanting an education or showing your face in public, what amounts to a high school prank is what makes you mad? I simply dont believe anyone is dying from this despite the articles dubious claims.
And torture victims who are exposed to inhumanly loud music for 22 hours a day, that's just a prank too, right? Whenever someone says something like that, I am forced to wonder what sort of Hellhole they went to school in. My school years were violent at times, but we generally drew the line at kidnapping and prolonged torture sessions.

And torture victims who are exposed to inhumanly loud music for 22 hours a day, that's just a prank too, right? Whenever someone says something like that, I am forced to wonder what sort of Hellhole they went to school in. My school years were violent at times, but we generally drew the line at kidnapping and prolonged torture sessions.

I think people often have trouble imagining how painful/distressing certain things can be. In our minds we tend to equate torture with things that cause directly observable physical damage - preferrably involving sharp implements and bloodshed (for the traditionalists).

It's easy to forget that some of the most effective tortures can involve the most mundane things and the experience for the person is horrifying even if it doesn't result in lasting harm (though I'm pretty damn sure this particular example does).

Remember kids - with a bit of inventiveness you can turn anything into a horrific torture instrument

Does anyone else find it ironic that "Intestinal fluids" is the one who does not understand?

Does anyone else find it ironic that "Intestinal fluids" is the one who does not understand?

I had noted that irony :D

Mohamed attributed the rise of homosexuality in Iraq to the growing conservatism in society which makes mingling between sexes increasingly difficult.

this would be ridiculously funny if it was true.

...

So, the latest craze in religious bigotry is a slightly more sadistic form of a high school prank from The Breakfast Club?

The next time somebody tries to argue that religion is the source of morality, I'm going to barf all over them.

No, dicks do those things. Dicks regardless of gender, religion, race, etc. If a Muslim dick does it, it's because he's a dick, not a Muslim.

/thread

Does anyone else find it ironic that "Intestinal fluids" is the one who does not understand?

I dont please enlighten me.



My point is, in a country where you are beheaded and your body is hung in town square with a sign on your body for noone to touch it or they will be killed too, and where people regularly find ditches filled with groups of dead tortured people, all because of having an alleged affair or you believe in a different religion etc etc is the context of the real problems we have there. While noone is argueing gluing a guys ass together is not right it pales in comparison to the far more serious consequences of intolerance that exist in Iraq right now.

So carrying the sympathy torch for butt glued Iraqi homosexuals being pranked is kind of like a guy walking into a poisoned radioactive junk yard with a white glove and running his finger along stuff and complaining about the dust.

I dont please enlighten me.



My point is, in a country where you are beheaded and your body is hung in town square with a sign on your body for noone to touch it or they will be killed too, and where people regularly find ditches filled with groups of dead tortured people, all because of having an alleged affair or you believe in a different religion etc etc is the context of the real problems we have there. While noone is argueing gluing a guys ass together is not right it pales in comparison to the far more serious consequences of intolerance that exist in Iraq right now.

So carrying the sympathy torch for butt glued Iraqi homosexuals being pranked is kind of like a guy walking into a poisoned radioactive junk yard with a white glove and running his finger along stuff and complaining about the dust.

Yeah, causing somebody to die because their intestines are so full that they explode is nothing compared to beheading them.
Especially 'cause they're gay, they must have deserved it, those fucking sinners.
Just so I don't get mistaken for a bigot like what happened in a fairly recent thread, the above post is sarcasm.

now theres some glue you won't find the kids sniffing in any hurry

And torture victims who are exposed to inhumanly loud music for 22 hours a day

sounds allot like parenting

Remember kids - with a bit of inventiveness you can turn anything into a horrific torture instrument

apart from donuts.

So carrying the sympathy torch for butt glued Iraqi homosexuals being pranked is kind of like a guy walking into a poisoned radioactive junk yard with a white glove and running his finger along stuff and complaining about the dust.

'Pranked'? People have died from this 'prank'. Can you not read the article?

apart from donuts.

I dunno, I'm sure someone will come up with something ... just to prove you wrong.

I dont please enlighten me.



My point is, in a country where you are beheaded and your body is hung in town square with a sign on your body for noone to touch it or they will be killed too, and where people regularly find ditches filled with groups of dead tortured people, all because of having an alleged affair or you believe in a different religion etc etc is the context of the real problems we have there. While noone is argueing gluing a guys ass together is not right it pales in comparison to the far more serious consequences of intolerance that exist in Iraq right now.

So carrying the sympathy torch for butt glued Iraqi homosexuals being pranked is kind of like a guy walking into a poisoned radioactive junk yard with a white glove and running his finger along stuff and complaining about the dust.

Not quite: I think the point is partly that this is new, and so inevitably news will go a bit nuts over it. The other part to this is the stupefyingly horrific way in which these people will die, and trust me, they will. If a person is unable to defaecate then all the faeces builds up in their body (as obviously there's nowhere for it to go). Given sufficient time, such as when it's backed up to the small intestine, toxins start to be absorbed into the blood. Beyond that, into the duodenum and the stomach, all the digestive ability is hampered and ultimately stopped, causing the person to begin to die of malnutrition, despite being so bloated they can't eat. Eventually they will start to vomit faeces. Quite apart from wanting to kill themselves they will die of septicaemia, toxicaemia, malnutrition and all sorts of other unpleasant things. The laxatives are a particularly cruel addition as they will cause the person to be constantly voiding their bowels, but be unable to - imagine constantly shitting your pants but being unable to take your trousers off and clean up.

Not technically a medical professional, but I am a medical professional in training.

apart from donuts.

So, you like donuts do ya? Have all the donuts in the world!

I dunno, I'm sure someone will come up with something ... just to prove you wrong.

"so you like donuts do ya?"

"uh-hu"

"well, have all the donuts in the world!"

edit: Mooseica is on the ball here

I wonder if certain posters will condemn them because they're Muslims or praise them because their victims are "deviants".

"so you like donuts do ya?"

"uh-hu"

"well, have all the donuts in the world!"

edit: Mooseica is on the ball here

See, told you someone would come up with something (or steal it from the Simpsons).

That word 'Homophobe' has always intriuged me. It sound like some sort of musical instrument. Now the type you blow or pluck I wonder?

Well, blow, naturally. Not that there aren't some out there who'd enjoy a good plucking.

Ancient Babylon apparently. If you want 'fun'* and 'interesting' execution methods, the ancient times are the best, they could get real inventive.

* And by this I mean mind-bogglingly horrible that makes your skin crawl just to think about it

Reminds me of a scene from Mel Brooks' History of the World, Part One.

ROMAN OFFICER: Now who can tell me the penalty for striking a Roman Centurion?

[the crowd acts like contestants on Let's Make a Deal, all raising their hands trying to get selected.]

ROMAN OFFICER: Yes, you?

CITIZEN 1: Crucifixion?

R.O.: No....you?

CITIZEN 2: Stoning?

R.O.: No....you?

CITIZEN 3: They shove a living snake up your ass!

R.O.: [surprised] No... ...but that's... ...very good....

'Pranked'? People have died from this 'prank'. Can you not read the article?

Apparently, he did, but he just doesn't believe it happened. Of course, he didn't provide a reason for this, it's just his belief.

Well, I believe that stoning people to death is just a prank. You might say that people die from it, but I don't believe that to be the case! I mean, it's just like throwing a ball at somebody, right? Why should we care about stoning people when other people are being beheaded?! I mean, it's like playing dodgeball! What, will we ban gym class now?!

I say we find the guys that did this, and weld their buttocks together.

Apparently, he did, but he just doesn't believe it happened. Of course, he didn't provide a reason for this, it's just his belief.

Well, I believe that stoning people to death is just a prank. You might say that people die from it, but I don't believe that to be the case! I mean, it's just like throwing a ball at somebody, right? Why should we care about stoning people when other people are being beheaded?! I mean, it's like playing dodgeball! What, will we ban gym class now?!

Think of the children! :tongue:

Stoning reminds me of the joke about Jesus admonishing the crowd about to stone the woman taken in adultery, "Let him among you who is without sin cast the first stone," and a big rock flies from the back of the crowd and clonks the woman in the head, and Jesus looks around and yells, "Mother, please! I'm trying to make a point here!"

I'm all for respecting people's beliefs but it is possible for one's beliefs to be wrong. When I was seven I believed that Santa Claus delivered presents at Christmas.

I say we find the guys that did this, and weld their buttocks together.

Does welding even take on human flesh?

I say we find the guys that did this, and weld their buttocks together.

no the punishment has to make sense!

I propose we glue headphones to their ears playing nothing but Kylie

When I was seven I believed that Santa Claus delivered presents at Christmas.

actually I think you will find that a big red menace does in fact deliver your Christmas presents :p

Does welding even take on human flesh?

Only one way to find out!

...

So, the latest craze in religious bigotry is a slightly more sadistic form of a high school prank from The Breakfast Club?

The next time somebody tries to argue that religion is the source of morality, I'm going to barf all over them.

Right, because what a few individuals do, clearly indicts the entire belief systems of people.

Ok, it's hard. But 'we' are not much better.

In most Western countries, gays can't marry, can't adopt children.
And I predict a hard time for a homosexual teacher in a christian school, who admit he's gay in public.

Only one way to find out!

Okay. Which medium? Arc-welder? Acetylene? Uh...other forms I know nothing about?

Ok, it's hard. But 'we' are not much better.

In most Western countries, gays can't marry, can't adopt children.
And I predict a hard time for a homosexual teacher in a christian school, who admit he's gay in public.

I'd say that IS "much" better than assault and potential lingering death, but that's me. Neither situation is anything to be proud of, but if you're comparing, ostracism is mild compared to death.

Right, because what a few individuals do, clearly indicts the entire belief systems of people.

When the rest of the so-called "moderates" do nothing about -- not even speaking out against -- the "few individuals", they are complicit and deserve the taint of what is done in their name. I get singled out for radical atheists' behaviors all the time. Pony up, buttercup.

When the rest of the so-called "moderates" do nothing about -- not even speaking out against -- the "few individuals", they are complicit and deserve the taint of what is done in their name. I get singled out for radical atheists' behaviors all the time. Pony up, buttercup.

Or perhaps its because people like to focus on negative more than positive. You turn on the TV, and you will hear nothing but negative. When do you hear about someone doing a good deed though? Does it mean it doesn't happen? Nope, it means that negativity sells, so that's what is promoted.

Okay. Which medium? Arc-welder? Acetylene? Uh...other forms I know nothing about?



I'd say that IS "much" better than assault and potential lingering death, but that's me. Neither situation is anything to be proud of, but if you're comparing, ostracism is mild compared to death.

Yes, you are right. But the atmosphere is: "What an animals" and this while 'we' are animals as well.

I prefer homosexual good parents, above heterosexual bad ones. But in the mind of the people, it's not done, being homosexual AND having a child.

Ok, it's hard. But 'we' are not much better.

In most Western countries, gays can't marry, can't adopt children.
And I predict a hard time for a homosexual teacher in a christian school, who admit he's gay in public.

The fuck? I am all about progressive government, but not allowing same-sex marriage is not half as bad as this.

Yes, you are right. But the atmosphere is: "What an animals" and this while 'we' are animals as well.

I prefer homosexual good parents, above heterosexual bad ones. But in the mind of the people, it's not done, being homosexual AND having a child.

In the minds of SOME people. Lots of people don't care, and many are advocates for homosexual rights. Patience is all that's required. Sensibility eventually wins out.

I prefer homosexual good parents, above heterosexual bad ones. But in the mind of the people, it's not done, being homosexual AND having a child.

speak for yourzelf you disgusting Amerikan!

*hits Iraqis with rolled up newspaper*

The fuck? I am all about progressive government, but not allowing same-sex marriage is not half as bad as this.

And are you? Are you allowing same-sex marriage?

Okay. Which medium? Arc-welder? Acetylene? Uh...other forms I know nothing about?

Clearly, repeated trials will be needed with a variety of welding techniques.

Or perhaps its because people like to focus on negative more than positive. You turn on the TV, and you will hear nothing but negative. When do you hear about someone doing a good deed though? Does it mean it doesn't happen? Nope, it means that negativity sells, so that's what is promoted.

Solution? Turn off the TV or change the station. I stopped getting cable in November of 2007. I only miss it when the Seahawks are playing away games in small markets. PBS regularly airs positive stories about all kinds of cultures and sub-groups.

Another solution, make sure to be the change you wish to see, as Gandhi said. For example, I refuse to allow "gay" as a derogatory term in my classroom.

And are you? Are you allowing same-sex marriage?

It doesn't matter much if one person "allows" it. However, if Park-o-rama pesters and badgers his local representatives and gets his friends and others to do the same, his "allowing" of it can be spread. You seem to think that something like this can be instant. It can't. Either way, not being able to marry is superior to assault, period.

I wonder when Catholics will take this tactic and start doing it to their child molesting priests?

And are you? Are you allowing same-sex marriage?

Me? I totally want to legalize it, and I think it is positively criminal not to. But I would equate it to the glue incident, any more than I would equate not allowing interracial marriage to the Third Reich.

When the rest of the so-called "moderates" do nothing about -- not even speaking out against -- the "few individuals", they are complicit and deserve the taint of what is done in their name. I get singled out for radical atheists' behaviors all the time. Pony up, buttercup.

While Al-Fatiha (Muslim LGBT rights group) usually condemns these actions, their website is down right now, so it's hard to provide a link to whatever speaking out that they are assuredly doing.

Solution? Turn off the TV or change the station. I stopped getting cable in November of 2007. I only miss it when the Seahawks are playing away games in small markets. PBS regularly airs positive stories about all kinds of cultures and sub-groups.

Another solution, make sure to be the change you wish to see, as Gandhi said. For example, I refuse to allow "gay" as a derogatory term in my classroom.


And I refuse to be lumped into a stereotype. Its hell for Christians on a secular university campus. People are all about treating each other equal, except for religious students. Never mind we are raising money for the poor and starving, go and help the down trodden, etc. Oh well. Some people are born to hate others. Its its not skin color, then its religion, if not that then political preference.

And I refuse to be lumped into a stereotype. Its hell for Christians on a secular university campus. People are all about treating each other equal, except for religious students.

What a steaming pile of shit. Tell me, what school do you go to, and provide evidence of the discrimination you face, or your comment will be written off as the typical Christian Persecution Complex.

Right, because what a few individuals do, clearly indicts the entire belief systems of people.

Um, she said that she'd laugh at people who say that religion is the source for morality. That doesn't necessarily mean that religion is the root of all evil or anything, it just means that it's silly to say that religion is necessary and/or sufficient for morality.

And I refuse to be lumped into a stereotype. Its hell for Christians on a secular university campus. People are all about treating each other equal, except for religious students. Never mind we are raising money for the poor and starving, go and help the down trodden, etc. Oh well. Some people are born to hate others. Its its not skin color, then its religion, if not that then political preference.

Hahahah, yeah. Christians have it so hard in universities, let me tell you. Just like white people and males. I weep every day for being a white male, it's just so unfair.

But I mean, that's nothing compared to those Christians. Being told that they aren't allowed to enforce their backwards view of morality on other people. I can't even imagine how tough that must be for them.

Um, she said that she'd laugh at people who say that religion is the source for morality. That doesn't necessarily mean that religion is the root of all evil or anything, it just means that it's silly to say that religion is necessary and/or sufficient for morality.



Hahahah, yeah. Christians have it so hard in universities, let me tell you. Just like white people and males. I weep every day for being a white male, it's just so unfair.

But I mean, that's nothing compared to those Christians. Being told that they aren't allowed to enforce their backwards view of morality on other people. I can't even imagine how tough that must be for them.


Damn secular universities, not lettin me stone teh gheyz.

Im actually interested in hearing about how its 'hell' being religious on a 'secular campus'.

I suspect its something like "We dont pray before every class!" or the Prof wouldnt let him answer "God did it" on a science test.

What a steaming pile of shit. Tell me, what school do you go to, and provide evidence of the discrimination you face, or your comment will be written off as the typical Christian Persecution Complex.

Well, if we are asking for evidence of persecution, then we should ask it of everyone.

....I get singled out for radical atheists' behaviors all the time......

Apparently, you should provide evidence of this, or we must dismiss this as 'typical Atheist Persecution Complex'.

Apparently, you should provide evidence of this, or we must dismiss this as 'typical Atheist Persecution Complex'.

I missed that, and Im not said poster, so I dont know why youre asking me for evidence.

All though I could easily find evidence of a general distrust and prejudice the public has for athiests that isnt there for the religious, if that what your asking.

And are you? Are you allowing same-sex marriage?My country allows gay marriage. Can I have an opinion about this or will you find another reason why I'm "just as bad" as people who glue homosexuals' buttocks together and forcefeed them laxatives?

When the rest of the so-called "moderates" do nothing about -- not even speaking out against -- the "few individuals", they are complicit and deserve the taint of what is done in their name. I get singled out for radical atheists' behaviors all the time. Pony up, buttercup.

All the more reason why YOU of all people should know this is wrong.

I missed that, and Im not said poster, so I dont know why youre asking me for evidence.

All though I could easily find evidence of a general distrust and prejudice the public has for athiests that isnt there for the religious, if that what your asking.

I'm not asking you for evidence. I was merely pointing out that if we are going to ask for evidence of persecution every time someone claims it, we should apply that to every one equally.

Since you asked for the Christian to do it, we must therefore also ask the atheist to do it.

But I mean, that's nothing compared to those Christians. Being told that they aren't allowed to enforce their backwards view of morality on other people. I can't even imagine how tough that must be for them.

Silly Rabbit, Theocracy is for Ebil Mozlemz.

EDIT: On that note, I must say I am surprised this wasn't a Kimchi thread, as the subject matter is the sort that would be the basis of such.

Right, because what a few individuals do, clearly indicts the entire belief systems of people.
Is reading comprehension against your religion, too?

Ancient Babylon apparently. If you want 'fun'* and 'interesting' execution methods, the ancient times are the best, they could get real inventive.

* And by this I mean mind-bogglingly horrible that makes your skin crawl just to think about it

Babylon. How interesting.

Ok, it's hard. But 'we' are not much better.

In most Western countries, gays can't marry, can't adopt children.
And I predict a hard time for a homosexual teacher in a christian school, who admit he's gay in public.

Killing... Someone... Is... Only... Slightly... Worse... Than... Not... ALlowing... Them... To... Marry?

Can I have some of what you're smoking?

My country allows gay marriage. Can I have an opinion about this or will you find another reason why I'm "just as bad" as people who glue homosexuals' buttocks together and forcefeed them laxatives?

Sure. Your country is allowing racist parties. Your country is putting poor people in jail, just because they are poor. They even kill one from time to time like Adamu Semira. Your country is partly guilty for the genocide in Ruanda. Your country had some king Leopold who killed countless black people in Congo.

Look. It's not good to glue homosexuals their ass. But I am always amused by the outrage of people on some subjects, hiding them selves in some corner of civilisation, while they allow that awful stuff is happening in their own culture or country.

Sure. Your country is allowing racist parties. Your country is putting poor people in jail, just because they are poor. They even kill one from time to time like Adamu Semira. Your country is partly guilty for the genocide in Ruanda. Your country had some king Leopold who killed countless black people in Congo.

Look. It's not good to glue homosexuals their ass. But I am always amused by the outrage of people on some subjects, hiding them selves in some corner of civilisation, while they allow that awful stuff is happening in their own culture or country.

And just how are we "allowing it"? I am voting; I am doing everything I can to stop it.

And just how are we "allowing it"? I am voting; I am doing everything I can to stop it.

Shh! If you aren't banning opposing points of view, YOU SUPPORT THEM! :eek2:

And just how are we "allowing it"? I am voting; I am doing everything I can to stop it.


Vote for decent people once.

That Belgian guy...

Well some current Belgian socialist minister of education was involved in some dirty case with Agusta helicopters. His party took money from the Italian manufacturer to make sure the Belgian army was flying those very expensive Italian helicopters. That guy was one of the leaders of the socialist party at that time. He was in the knowledge of what happened and he said that when he discovered the money, that he burned the whole package. Yeps, a socialist who's burning money. Now, some decades later, who are the people electing? Well THAT idiot.

Vote for decent people once.

Someone does not understand politics.

I voted for a candidate that is pro same-sex marriage.

Well some current Belgian socialist minister of education was involved in some dirty case with Agusta helicopters. His party took money from the Italian manufacturer to make sure the Belgian army was flying those very expensive Italian helicopters. That guy was one of the leaders of the socialist party at that time. He was in the knowledge of what happened and he said that when he discovered the money, that he burned the whole package. Yeps, a socialist who's burning money. Now, some decades later, who are the people electing? Well THAT idiot.
Source?

Someone does not understand politics.

I voted for a candidate that is pro same-sex marriage.


Parkus, it doesn't matter. I know that one vote will not do the change. Point is, that many people are making a lot of noise of things that happens in some countries, but are silent for the dirtiness of their own country behaviour.

Parkus, it doesn't matter. I know that one vote will not do the change. Point is, that many people are make a lot of noise of things that happens in some countries, but are silent for the dirtiness of their own country behaviour.

Are you trying to say that society is full of hypocrisy?

Parkus, it doesn't matter. I know that one vote will not do the change. Point is, that many people are make a lot of noise of things that happens in some countries, but are silent for the dirtiness of their own country behaviour.

I take it you gather all of this information from your own perception of things, unaltered by fact, or actually visiting these countries in question?

Source?

http://www.volkskrant.nl/archief_gratis/article633990.ece/Minister_van_BZ_in_Belgie_treedt_af_wegens_Agusta-affaire

Use Google translator Dutch->English:

http://translate.google.be/translate?prev=hp&hl=nl&js=n&u=http://www.volkskrant.nl/archief_gratis/article633990.ece/Minister_van_BZ_in_Belgie_treedt_af_wegens_Agusta-affaire&sl=nl&tl=en

Are you trying to say that society is full of hypocrisy?

HK is trying to say that all societies are full of hypocrisy, except the perfect one she obviously lives in. Either that or she lives in one and is special, not deserving of the Criticism she's leveling at various other countries and people.

HK is trying to say that all societies are full of hypocrisy, except the perfect one she obviously lives in. Either that or she lives in one and is special, not deserving of the Criticism she's leveling at various other countries and people.

Uhu. All societies are full of hypocrisy and the one I'm living in, is not better.

http://www.volkskrant.nl/archief_gratis/article633990.ece/Minister_van_BZ_in_Belgie_treedt_af_wegens_Agusta-affaire

Use Google translator Dutch->English:

http://translate.google.be/translate?prev=hp&hl=nl&js=n&u=http://www.volkskrant.nl/archief_gratis/article633990.ece/Minister_van_BZ_in_Belgie_treedt_af_wegens_Agusta-affaire&sl=nl&tl=en

*sigh*
NOT KNOWN, JOS KLAASSEN
gepubliceerd op 23 maart 1995 00:00, bijgewerkt op 15 januari 2009 21:29 published on March 23, 1995 00:00

After Frank Vandenbroucke in the course of 1991 had heard that the SP in the safe-Codep had are still millions of francs, which were not recognized, he wanted nothing to do.

Vandenbroucke says in his resignation letter that he Dehaene in February 1995 has promised to resign if the court would accuse him or the public discussion about his person the government would damage it.

Uhu. All societies are full of hypocrisy and the one I'm living in, is not better.
...
You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.

Uhu. All societies are full of hypocrisy and the one I'm living in, is not better.

Sorry, Sweetie, 'tis the way the world is. The only comforts one has are sex, satire, and action.

Barbarians.

Sorry, Sweetie, 'tis the way the world is. The only comforts one has are sex, satire, and action.
You live in a gloomy world. How can you not like Irony, Pets, and Caffeine? :p

You live in a gloomy world.

Nonsense. It is highly gay.

How can you not like Irony,

Satire, remember?

Pets,

I have a dog that shakes like a disco dancer.

and Caffeine? :p

A supplement to action! I have an espresso maker.

Nonsense. It is highly gay.

:fluffle:

Satire, remember?

I usually keep them separate.

I have a dog that shakes like a disco dancer.

Would that go under Sex, Action, or Satire? :wink:

A supplement to action! I have an espresso maker.
Ah, of course. But don't you realize Caffeine is a joy within itself?

:fluffle:

http://www.wondercliparts.com/hugs/graphics/hugs_graphics_02.gif

I usually keep them separate.

Irony is a key ingredient to satire.

Example: Christians are easy to make satire of, as extremists often preach hatred in the same of a fellow who is almost universally recognized as a symbol of love.

Would that go under Sex, Action, or Satire? :wink:

He prefers the former, but I often see him as a living embodiment of the latter.

Ah, of course. But don't you realize Caffeine is a joy within itself?

Yes, damn you. Now I have to turn on the espresso-maker.

Irony is a key ingredient to satire.

Example: Christians are easy to make satire of, as extremists often preach hatred in the same of a fellow who is almost universally recognized as a symbol of love.

I usually have Satire as 'Exaggeration on purpose to make a point about the stupidity/hypocrisy of something', and Irony as something I can't define at the moment because of this goddamn heat.:mad:

He prefers the former, but I often see him as a living embodiment of the latter.

:tongue:
Yes, damn you. Now I have to turn on the espresso-maker.
Glad to be of assistance. *bows*

I usually have Satire as 'Exaggeration on purpose to make a point about the stupidity/hypocrisy of something', and Irony as something I can't define at the moment because of this goddamn heat.:mad:

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/irony

:D

Glad to be of assistance. *bows*

Ginger...the only flavor I could ever stand. Ginger espresso is out of this world.

Ok, it's hard. But 'we' are not much better.

In most Western countries, gays can't marry, can't adopt children.
And I predict a hard time for a homosexual teacher in a christian school, who admit he's gay in public.
All of which I protest indignantly. But to pretend that this is remotely comparable to the OP is insane.

I'm mildly impressed the Alma Mater managed to make a thread which connects his hatred of the Church, radical Islam, and super glue manufacturers all in one. I didn't think such a story could exist, but whattayouknow.

The next time somebody tries to argue that religion is the source of morality, I'm going to barf all over them.

I understand your sentiment. Apparently the word morality is synonymous with cruelty, sadism and murder according to those firmly brainwashed by the most vile forms of religion.

Apparently, you should provide evidence of this, or we must dismiss this as 'typical Atheist Persecution Complex'.

The wife of my collegiate mentor (who is also my boss at a music camp every summer, so that makes it hard to react to her the way I wish I could) makes a point of saying "but that doesn't mean anything to you" whenever a piece of music written for or about religious people or principles comes up. She once started talking about setting me up with an attractive friend of hers but stopped herself in mid-sentence, saying "oh, but she's Jewish." When I said "so?", she said "well, YOU don't believe in ANYthing". Room full of people. Nobody said a word.

I play basketball on a 3-on-3 team that sometimes plays with a guy who "corrects" my interjections when I blow a layup or miss a shot or do what my slow, white ass usually does on a court -- suck out loud. "Cheese and rice" he'll chide, when I say "Jesus Christ" for missing my third straight 10-footer. This same paragon of verbal virtue will go on to adopt a lispy gay accent and comment about felching as if it were table conversation. But point out this hypocrisy, and it's a reminder of the lake of fire for me. I would like to refuse to play that team, but it's a league, and it's the only way I can see my best friend from that side of the state anymore.

I'm not saying that this is persecution that needs any more addressing than me growing thick skin (I have) and smiling and nodding a lot (I do). But it is there, and is both overt and subtle.

I do not pray when people I'm eating with say grace, though I will bow my head (I even wonder why I do that, sometimes). I do not start arguments when someone makes a wholly illogical statement supported only by scripture.

All the more reason why YOU of all people should know this is wrong.

Blow your sanctimony out your ass, for once, would you? Please?

Goddamn, First the article pissed me off....

then I read some of the comments, the ignorance and hatred make me want to vomit...

Goddamn, First the article pissed me off....

then I read some of the comments, the ignorance and hatred make me want to vomit...

Another fine example of the Ebil Mozlem Theorem in action, no?

Another fine example of the Ebil Mozlem Theorem in action, no?

I hate it when people exemplify stereotypes.....

ugh...

I hate it when people exemplify stereotypes.....

ugh...

From my reading of the Ebil Mozlem Theorem, Gauthier would agree with you.

All of which I protest indignantly. But to pretend that this is remotely comparable to the OP is insane.

Sure there's a difference, no doubt about that one.

Killing your woman is worse than beating her up every day. But beating women isn't still cool.

And that's what some people are doing here. They beat up their wives everyday but have a high voice about one who actual killed his wife.

Btw are you aware that forbidding gay people their marriage and children is a life time sentence?

And that's what some people are doing here. They beat up their wives everyday but have a high voice about one who actual killed his wife.
Duhhh.... yeah. Especially if the killing is a sadistic slow torture, and if it is condoned or endorsed by the local authorities.
And: are you accusing anyone here of beating gay people up? Because I do not know of anyone who says they do that.
Btw are you aware that forbidding gay people their marriage and children is a life time sentence?
Apparently you have failed to notice that I AM a gay man who has been here protesting such things vehemently on every gay-marriage thread for the past year.
Aside from the insanity of your refusal to recognize differences in degree (would you say we had no right to combat the Third Reich, since after all Jews weren't allowed to play on a lot of golf courses at the time?) you are assuming that everybody who condemns the OP has failed to condemn the lesser wrongs that occur elsewhere, and this is absurdly false.

Duhhh.... yeah. Especially if the killing is a sadistic slow torture, and if it is condoned or endorsed by the local authorities.
And: are you accusing anyone here of beating gay people up? Because I do not know of anyone who says they do that.

Apparently you have failed to notice that I AM a gay man who has been here protesting such things vehemently on every gay-marriage thread for the past year.
Aside from the insanity of your refusal to recognize differences in degree (would you say we had no right to combat the Third Reich, since after all Jews weren't allowed to play on a lot of golf courses at the time?) you are assuming that everybody who condemns the OP has failed to condemn the lesser wrongs that occur elsewhere, and this is absurdly false.

Are you saying it is possible to condemn more than one person and/or group at a time? :confused:

Another fine example of the Ebil Mozlem Theorem in action, no?You do know that to a mathematician, the word "Theorem" means something that has been proven to be true?

I'm mildly impressed the Alma Mater managed to make a thread which connects his hatred of the Church, radical Islam, and super glue manufacturers all in one. I didn't think such a story could exist, but whattayouknow.

Actually the Pope reference was primarily intended to stop the flow of "ebil muslims strike again" posts, by making sure everyone remembered there is more than one hategroup out there.

However, I admit my love for the Church is dwindling fast. Superglue otoh stays cool.

Duhhh.... yeah. Especially if the killing is a sadistic slow torture, and if it is condoned or endorsed by the local authorities.
And: are you accusing anyone here of beating gay people up? Because I do not know of anyone who says they do that.


You should learn something about metaphors.


Apparently you have failed to notice that I AM a gay man who has been here protesting such things vehemently on every gay-marriage thread for the past year.
Aside from the insanity of your refusal to recognize differences in degree (would you say we had no right to combat the Third Reich, since after all Jews weren't allowed to play on a lot of golf courses at the time?) you are assuming that everybody who condemns the OP has failed to condemn the lesser wrongs that occur elsewhere, and this is absurdly false.

You're gay. So? Does that make you special?

It's so easy to point to other countries and cultures about what is wrong. It's safe and give us a feel good attitude. In the meantime we don't have to handle our own problems. In a way people start to think 'after all, gays do not have so many problems here in the west'

It took us centuries to create a society that is accepting, more or less, gays.
And now we want that countries and cultures, which are not at our level, that they arrange everything in one night. It's not possible.

We can't do a lot for them, let us focus on the problems we can solve here.

And are you? Are you allowing same-sex marriage?

I am
Unfortunately I have no legal authority...

I am
Unfortunately I have no legal authority...

Then you are hereby given HK's certificate that allows you to condemn torture...though you cannot have all the benefits until the Government running the country you live in changes its laws.

Then you are hereby given HK's certificate that allows you to condemn torture...though you cannot have all the benefits until the Government running the country you live in changes its laws.

Her position is a tad ridiculous...

"You're country does bad stuff too!!!"

Her position is a tad ridiculous...

"You're country does bad stuff too!!!"

It is also disturbingly cynical, even from my rather pessimistic point of view. No human nor government is perfect; does that mean none should object to evil?

It is also disturbingly cynical, even from my rather pessimistic point of view. No human nor government is perfect; does that mean none should object to evil?

Well, obviously if you (and your entire nation) aren't perfect you are in no position to critize...

This is torture and torture is bad!

I like how this is a lot of people's reaction. I have to disagree with this opinion (or whatever you want to call it). It's not right to do, but I think we have more important things to do than save the gays from having their asses glued; issues like Iran's nuclear program and such.

Edit: oh, the damn thing didn't quote the person...

Her position is a tad ridiculous...

"You're country does bad stuff too!!!"

Pfffft.

I never said it's good and should be promoted.

But I have other things to care for. Don't you?

Pfffft.

I never said it's good and should be promoted.

But I have other things to care for. Don't you?

I, unlike you apparently, am capable of caring about more than one thing at a time.

I, unlike you apparently, am capable of caring about more than one thing at a time.

Good for you!

I like how this is a lot of people's reaction. I have to disagree with this opinion (or whatever you want to call it). It's not right to do, but I think we have more important things to do than save the gays from having their asses glued; issues like Iran's nuclear program and such.

Edit: oh, the damn thing didn't quote the person...

Wait... you disagree with "torture is bad?"

Um...

Remind me to avoid you in the future, for my own safety.

Wait... you disagree with "torture is bad?"

Um...

Remind me to avoid you in the future, for my own safety.

Of course torture is bad. But if it's the difference between knowing the next major terrorist attack and letting millions of people die then I am all for torturing for the information needed to save lives. (And besides, these people are obviously evil-doers, are bad, etc. I believe that once they made the decision to kill innocent civilians, they lost all right to life and liberty.)

Of course torture is bad. But if it's the difference between knowing the next major terrorist attack and letting millions of people die then I am all for torturing for the information needed to save lives. (And besides, these people are obviously evil-doers, are bad, etc. I believe that once they made the decision to kill innocent civilians, they lost all right to life and liberty.)

First, what does any of that have to do with torturing people for being gay?
Second, torture is not effective.
Third, what ever happened to "innocent until proven guilty?" What if you torture somebody and, hey, oops, turns out you have the wrong guy?

Pfffft.

I never said it's good and should be promoted.

But I have other things to care for. Don't you?

Like?

I like how this is a lot of people's reaction. I have to disagree with this opinion (or whatever you want to call it). It's not right to do, but I think we have more important things to do than save the gays from having their asses glued; issues like Iran's nuclear program and such.

Edit: oh, the damn thing didn't quote the person...

Iran now is about as dangerous in the WMD department as Iraq was in 2002 - which is to say it isn't. People being tortured to death for any reason is cause for concern.

First, what does any of that have to do with torturing people for being gay?
Second, torture is not effective.
Third, what ever happened to "innocent until proven guilty?" What if you torture somebody and, hey, oops, turns out you have the wrong guy?

What happens if we don't torture anybody and just let the terrorists attack? torturing 5 wrong people and 1 correct one is worth saving a few million people in my opinion.

Iran now is about as dangerous in the WMD department as Iraq was in 2002 - which is to say it isn't. People being tortured to death for any reason is cause for concern.

Iran getting a nuclear weapon is extremely dangerous. After all, didn't their president publicly state something along the lines of wiping Israel off the face of Earth? It would be like giving Hitler nuclear weapons... But oh no, that's not dangerous at all, either.

What happens if we don't torture anybody and just let the terrorists attack? torturing 5 wrong people and 1 correct one is worth saving a few million people in my opinion.



Iran getting a nuclear weapon is extremely dangerous. After all, didn't their president publicly state something along the lines of wiping Israel off the face of Earth? It would be like giving Hitler nuclear weapons... But oh no, that's not dangerous at all, either.

Actually, what would likely happen is you'd torture 5 innocent people and 1 guilty, but still not save a few million people, because torture is not a reliable source of information.

What happens if we don't torture anybody and just let the terrorists attack? torturing 5 wrong people and 1 correct one is worth saving a few million people in my opinion.



Iran getting a nuclear weapon is extremely dangerous. After all, didn't their president publicly state something along the lines of wiping Israel off the face of Earth? It would be like giving Hitler nuclear weapons... But oh no, that's not dangerous at all, either.

What if you're one of the five?

What happens if we don't torture anybody and just let the terrorists attack? torturing 5 wrong people and 1 correct one is worth saving a few million people in my opinion.



Iran getting a nuclear weapon is extremely dangerous. After all, didn't their president publicly state something along the lines of wiping Israel off the face of Earth? It would be like giving Hitler nuclear weapons... But oh no, that's not dangerous at all, either.

Just one problem with that idea: Iran isn't pursuing nuclear weapons. They're pursuing nuclear power.

Torture is wrong, period. I don't care whether or not it works, which, by the way, it has been proven not to.

What happens if we don't torture anybody and just let the terrorists attack? torturing 5 wrong people and 1 correct one is worth saving a few million people in my opinion.

Would you allow yourself to be one of the five?

Would you allow yourself to be one of the five?

No, we only need to torture teh m0zl3mz because they're the ones who are terrorists.

At the risk of actually keeping this thread on track, the people being tortured in Iraq right now due to their sexual orientation are not terrorists, so these hypothetical situations are irrelevant.

I think stopping this horror would be a very good thing. I wish I knew how. I really do.

Actually, what would likely happen is you'd torture 5 innocent people and 1 guilty, but still not save a few million people, because torture is not a reliable source of information.

You are missing the point here: what if the torturing WAS of reliable information?

Just one problem with that idea: Iran isn't pursuing nuclear weapons. They're pursuing nuclear power.

Torture is wrong, period. I don't care whether or not it works, which, by the way, it has been proven not to.

I know, it's a great excuse to give the world for having a nuclear program. Let's through out the fact that their president is a liar.

What if you're one of the five?

SOL for me then. Not like I could do anything about it anyways. And what if you were one of the few million?

Would you allow yourself to be one of the five?

Assuming, of course, I would have a choice in the matter.

At the risk of actually keeping this thread on track, the people being tortured in Iraq right now due to their sexual orientation are not terrorists, so these hypothetical situations are irrelevant.

I think stopping this horror would be a very good thing. I wish I knew how. I really do.

Murder trials would be a good idea. Treat the ones doing that torturing like the common criminals they are.

Just one problem with that idea: Iran isn't pursuing nuclear weapons. They're pursuing nuclear power.


Iran, sitting on the largest pools of energy on the planet needs nuclear energy just like North Korea doesnt have a ICBM program, it just really really likes satellites.

You are missing the point here: what if the torturing WAS of reliable information?

But it isn't. Let's stay in the real world, shall we?

I know, it's a great excuse to give the world for having a nuclear program. Let's through out the fact that their president is a liar.

Ahmadinejad has no jurisdiction over that.

But it isn't. Let's stay in the real world, shall we?

I actually meant the torturing being done to save the lives of millions..

Ahmadinejad has no jurisdiction over that.

Over lying?

Yea and North Korea just really really likes satellites.

North Korea is cause for worry. Unlike Ahmadinejad, Kim Jong-Il is actually the one calling the shots. At least, we think so. No way to really know.

I actually meant the torturing being done to save the lives of millions.

Still not worth it - because it WON'T WORK.

Over lying?

Over any nuclear program in Iran. That falls under the jurisdiction of Grand Ayatollah Ali Khamenei.

North Korea is cause for worry. Unlike Ahmadinejad, Kim Jong-Il is actually the one calling the shots. At least, we think so. No way to really know.

Ahmadinejad is a dictator. Dictators have all the authority they need to do what they please in their own country.

North Korea is cause for worry. Unlike Ahmadinejad, Kim Jong-Il is actually the one calling the shots. At least, we think so. No way to really know.

You say that as though all the other Iranian leaders are just fine, if only it wasnt for that Ahmad.

Look if i was Iran, i would want nuclear weapons too, with the US sending troops to their back door, who wouldnt? It doesnt really make them crazy. But Iran shouldnt try to bullshit the world about their intentions, just be honest about it.

Ahmadinejad is a dictator. Dictators have all the authority they need to do what they please in their own country.

You say that as though all the other Iranian leaders are just fine, if only it wasnt for that crazy Ahmad.

Ahmadinejad isn't the one in charge. That's Grand Ayatollah Ali Khamenei.

Ahmadinejad isn't the one in charge. That's Grand Ayatollah Ali Khamenei.

You say that like it changes anything.

You say that like it changes anything.

But it does. Ahmadinejad can run his mouth all he wants, but in the end, it's Khamenei who actually runs the show.

FYI: I oppose all dictatorships and all forms of theocracy.

But it does. Ahmadinejad can run his mouth all he wants, but in the end, it's Khamenei who actually runs the show.

FYI: I oppose all dictatorships and all forms of theocracy.

I, on the other hand, oppose all dictatorships that are not mine.

Even if Khamenei were in charge, it still wouldn't mean he has the best intentions.

You say that like it changes anything.

People assume Mahmoud is an actual leader, rather than an obnoxious mouthpiece, basically a Persian Hugo Chavez.

People assume Mahmoud is an actual leader, rather than an obnoxious mouthpiece, basically a Persian Hugo Chavez.

More like an Iranian Rush Limbaugh - full of shit, belligerent, and powerless at the end of the day, but people still take him seriously.

You should learn something about metaphors.

What I know about metaphors is that they don't work, even slightly, if the comparison is far-fetched.
You're gay. So? Does that make you special?

It means that for you to question me about whether I am aware that gay people are denied marriage and adoption rights, and whether it had ever occurred to me that this had lifelong effects, was among the inaner failures you have committed on this thread.
It's so easy to point to other countries and cultures about what is wrong.

And very necessary, often.

More like an Iranian Rush Limbaugh - full of shit, belligerent, and powerless at the end of the day, but people still take him seriously.

He's got more power over subsidies and other things involving the economy than people think. The idea that he's just a mouthpiece isn't really correct, the idea that he's at all relevant on the international scene isn't, either.

He's got more power over subsidies and other things involving the economy than people think. The idea that he's just a mouthpiece isn't really correct, the idea that he's at all relevant on the international scene isn't, either.

That's what I was talking about - the international scene. They can both run their mouths as much as they want and make themselves look like asses, but they're not calling the shots in that realm.