NationStates Jolt Archive

According to George Will anyway.

Demon Denim

By George F. Will
Thursday, April 16, 2009

On any American street, or in any airport or mall, you see the same sad tableau: A 10-year-old boy is walking with his father, whose development was evidently arrested when he was that age, judging by his clothes. Father and son are dressed identically -- running shoes, T-shirts. And jeans, always jeans. If mother is there, she, too, is draped in denim.

Writer Daniel Akst has noticed and has had a constructive conniption. He should be given the Presidential Medal of Freedom. He has earned it by identifying an obnoxious misuse of freedom. Writing in the Wall Street Journal, he has denounced denim, summoning Americans to soul-searching and repentance about the plague of that ubiquitous fabric, which is symptomatic of deep disorders in the national psyche.

It is, he says, a manifestation of "the modern trend toward undifferentiated dressing, in which we all strive to look equally shabby." Denim reflects "our most nostalgic and destructive agrarian longings -- the ones that prompted all those exurban McMansions now sliding off their manicured lawns and into foreclosure." Jeans come prewashed and acid-treated to make them look like what they are not -- authentic work clothes for horny-handed sons of toil and the soil. Denim on the bourgeoisie is, Akst says, the wardrobe equivalent of driving a Hummer to a Whole Foods store -- discordant.

Long ago, when James Dean and Marlon Brando wore it, denim was, Akst says, "a symbol of youthful defiance." Today, Silicon Valley billionaires are rebels without causes beyond poses, wearing jeans when introducing new products. Akst's summa contra denim is grand as far as it goes, but it only scratches the surface of this blight on Americans' surfaces. Denim is the infantile uniform of a nation in which entertainment frequently features childlike adults ("Seinfeld," "Two and a Half Men") and cartoons for adults ("King of the Hill"). Seventy-five percent of American "gamers" -- people who play video games -- are older than 18 and nevertheless are allowed to vote. In their undifferentiated dress, children and their childish parents become undifferentiated audiences for juvenilized movies (the six -- so far -- "Batman" adventures and "Indiana Jones and the Credit-Default Swaps," coming soon to a cineplex near you). Denim is the clerical vestment for the priesthood of all believers in democracy's catechism of leveling -- thou shalt not dress better than society's most slovenly. To do so would be to commit the sin of lookism -- of believing that appearance matters. That heresy leads to denying the universal appropriateness of everything, and then to the elitist assertion that there is good and bad taste.

Denim is the carefully calculated costume of people eager to communicate indifference to appearances. But the appearances that people choose to present in public are cues from which we make inferences about their maturity and respect for those to whom they are presenting themselves.

Do not blame Levi Strauss for the misuse of Levi's. When the Gold Rush began, Strauss moved to San Francisco planning to sell strong fabric for the 49ers' tents and wagon covers. Eventually, however, he made tough pants, reinforced by copper rivets, for the tough men who knelt on the muddy, stony banks of Northern California creeks, panning for gold. Today it is silly for Americans whose closest approximation of physical labor consists of loading their bags of clubs into golf carts to go around in public dressed for driving steers up the Chisholm Trail to the railhead in Abilene.

This is not complicated. For men, sartorial good taste can be reduced to one rule: If Fred Astaire would not have worn it, don't wear it. For women, substitute Grace Kelly.

Edmund Burke -- what he would have thought of the denimization of America can be inferred from his lament that the French Revolution assaulted "the decent drapery of life"; it is a straight line from the fall of the Bastille to the rise of denim -- said: "To make us love our country, our country ought to be lovely." Ours would be much more so if supposed grown-ups would heed St. Paul's first letter to the Corinthians, and St. Barack's inaugural sermon to the Americans, by putting away childish things, starting with denim.

(A confession: The author owns one pair of jeans. Wore them once. Had to. Such was the dress code for former senator Jack Danforth's 70th birthday party, where Jerry Jeff Walker sang his classic "Up Against the Wall, Redneck Mother." Music for a jeans-wearing crowd.)
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/04/15/AR2009041502861.html

You can just smell the old foggieism that rises from George Will. Cracks about how gamers shouldn't be voting aside, what is the collective wisdom of NSG? Should jeans be considered the root of all that is wrong with America? Do dress codes need to be introduced for men and women over the age of 12? And what about gamers? Should they indeed be allowed to vote?

I haven't worn jeans since I was about twelve. On the other hand, I do dress exactly the same every day and have for ten years or so, so I would still be open to Will's criticism of undifferentiated dress. My style is, I suppose, a bit more bland and middle-class (though FAR, far cheaper than wearing jeans or other such items), but equally repetitive.

LOL, ok mate pretty funny.

According to George Will anyway.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/04/15/AR2009041502861.html

You can just smell the old foggieism that rises from George Will. Cracks about how gamers shouldn't be voting aside, what is the collective wisdom of NSG? Should jeans be considered the root of all that is wrong with America? Do dress codes need to be introduced for men and women over the age of 12? And what about gamers? Should they indeed be allowed to vote?

What the hell was that about gamers not being allowed to vote? :mad:

I haven't worn jeans since I was about twelve. On the other hand, I do dress exactly the same every day and have for ten years or so, so I would still be open to Will's criticism of undifferentiated dress. My style is, I suppose, a bit more bland and middle-class (though FAR, far cheaper than wearing jeans or other such items), but equally repetitive.
I wear them any time I'm not at work and going out somewhere. I just find them far more comfortable and sturdier than anything else. Besides, I have to wear slacks and a shirt and tie when I teach, why on earth would I wear something simular on my time off if I could possibly help it?

the one thing that gets me about jeans is that it occasionally strikes me just how weird it is that our culture has declared that standard dress means wearing blue pants. imagine the same mass coloration, but with non-denim pants. it would just look ridiculous.

The original article on which George Will commented...

Down With Denim

By DANIEL AKST

If there is a silver lining to a financial crisis that threatens to leave the entire country dressed only in a barrel, it is this: At least we won't be wearing denim.

Never has a single fabric done so little for so many. Denim is hot, uncomfortable and uniquely unsuited to people who spend most of their waking hours punching keys instead of cows. It looks bad on almost everyone who isn't thin, yet has somehow made itself the unofficial uniform of the fattest people in the world.

It's time denim was called on the carpet, for its crimes are legion. Denim, for instance, is an essential co-conspirator in the modern trend toward undifferentiated dressing, in which we all strive to look equally shabby no matter what the occasion. Despite its air of innocence, no fabric has ever been so insidiously effective at undermining national discipline.

Did Levi Strauss realize the havoc his creation would wreak on the modern world?
If hypocrisy had a flag, it would be cut from denim, for it is in denim that we invest our most nostalgic and destructive agrarian longings -- the ones that prompted all those exurban McMansions now sliding off their manicured lawns and into foreclosure, dragging down the global financial system with them. Denim is the SUV of fabrics, the wardrobe equivalent of driving a hulking Land Rover to the Whole Foods Market. Our fussily tailored blue jeans, prewashed and acid-treated to look not just old but even dirty, are really a sad disguise. They're like Mao jackets, an unusually dreary form of sartorial conformity by means of which we reassure one another of our purity and good intentions.

There was a time, of course, when not everyone wore denim. In the 1950s, Bing Crosby was even refused entry to a Los Angeles hotel because he was wearing the stuff. (Levi Strauss obligingly ran him up a custom denim tuxedo so he wouldn't have that problem again.) By then denim was a symbol of youthful defiance, embraced by Marlon Brando, James Dean and -- well, just about every self-respecting rebel without a cause. Even Elvis, who didn't often wear denim in public during the early part of his career (like many Southerners, he associated it with rural poverty), eventually succumbed. Now we're all rebels, even a billionaire CEO like Steve Jobs, who wears blue jeans and a black turtleneck whenever unveiling new Apple Computer products.

Although a powerful force for evil, denim has achieved a status that will come as no surprise to fashion historians. Like camouflage fabric, aviator sunglasses and work boots, blue jeans were probably destined for ubiquity thanks to an iron-clad rule of attire adoption. "The sort of garments that become fashionable most rapidly and most completely," Alison Lurie reminds us in "The Language of Clothes," "are those which were originally designed for warfare, dangerous work or strenuous sports."

I can only hope the Obama administration sees denim for what it is: a ghastly but potentially lucrative source of much-needed revenue. Let's waste no time in imposing a hefty sumptuary tax on the stuff. It's a great example of "soft paternalism" (especially if the pants are pre-washed). We can close the budget deficit at the same time we eradicate the fashion deficit. All we've got to do is impose a federal levy on Levi's.

What the hell was that about gamers not being allowed to vote? :mad:
This:
Seventy-five percent of American "gamers" -- people who play video games -- are older than 18 and nevertheless are allowed to vote.

He does seem to be suggesting that gamers over the age of 18 shouldn't be voting.

when i go to my various DUI hearings i can't wear my jeans. Now that is the travesty.

the one thing that gets me about jeans is that it occasionally strikes me just how weird it is that our culture has declared that standard dress means wearing blue pants. imagine the same mass coloration, but with non-denim pants. it would just look ridiculous.
I still say that black denim is the best.

Sadly I am no longer allowed to get them. :(

the one thing that gets me about jeans is that it occasionally strikes me just how weird it is that our culture has declared that standard dress means wearing blue pants. imagine the same mass coloration, but with non-denim pants. it would just look ridiculous.

Better than black suits, white shirt and tie.

Can you imagine having to work at IBM corporate back in the 80's.

There's a book called, I think, MicroSerfs, where the author talks of everyone on the Microsoft campus in management buying, I think, a Lexus when Bill Gates bought one.

I quite like jeans for the lack of definition they bring.

I am wearing jeans right now in fact and I can assure you all, that yes, the devil is in fact inside my pants.

Well, I have been considering getting some lighter pants for summer. It's usually too windy to wear skirts around here and jeans are too warm. I also get a little bored wearing the same thing all the time. But I wouldn't give up jeans entirely. They make my ass look extra nice.

edit: I should perhaps point out that I don't live in the US and that my job doesn't require dressing particularly nicely. I think as long as I'm not smelly and not wearing shirts with profanity, I'm fine.

Denim doesn't look slovenly...

This:


He does seem to be suggesting that gamers over the age of 18 shouldn't be voting.

He can stuff himself. My vote is not rendered worthless because I happen to enjoy gaming.

I make a webcomic too, Mr.Will. Is that also a problem?

As for jeans...I'm not the biggest fan, but as far as I'm concerned, they're just pants. Not worth getting annoyed over.

He can stuff himself. My vote is not rendered worthless because I happen to enjoy gaming.

I make a webcomic too, Mr.Will. Is that also a problem?
Quite possibly because he did make a crack about adults watching cartoons.

He can stuff himself. My vote is not rendered worthless because I happen to enjoy gaming.

I make a webcomic too, Mr.Will. Is that also a problem?

A webcomic too? You sir shouldn't even be allowed to hold citizenship. :p

http://yglesias.thinkprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/george_will_2.jpg

...

It's like a glass to drink water from, you're pretty constrained in design terms since the object needs to hold liquid, needs to sit on a flat surface yet look at the enormous variety in glasses.

Constraint in design can often be very liberating, sometimes the greatest creativity comes from serious constraints.

So I don't see homogeneity in jeans, both in the form, colour and down to individual alterations, jeans come in a huge array of forms, possibly the most among any clothing.

It's been years since I've worn denim jeans, and I think this guy is a colossal tool.

http://yglesias.thinkprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/george_will_2.jpg

...

He looks like he ought to be selling popcorn.

Quite possibly because he did make a crack about adults watching cartoons.
Well, to be fair, that's an attitude held by a large number of people, not just those who are extremely conservative.

But that's a whole other subject.

I still say that black denim is the best.

I wear a lot of black jeans. I wear a lot of blue jeans too. All of my jeans have Skoal rings in the pockets, which I'm sure George would find even more reprehensible.

Although I think revoking citizenship might be going a bit far, I do think he's got a point about the video games. I can think of better things for a grown man or(in order to avoid the PC police let me hasten to add)woman to do with their time than guiding a little pixilated cartoon around on a screen.

I wear a lot of black jeans. I wear a lot of blue jeans too. All of my jeans have Skoal rings in the pockets, which I'm sure George would find even more reprehensible.

Although I think revoking citizenship might be going a bit far, I do think he's got a point about the video games. I can think of better things for a grown man(or, in order to avoid the PC police let me hasten to add, a woman)to do with their time than guiding a little pixilated cartoon around on a screen.

Like posting on NSG.

Meh. Gamers (presumably) hold down jobs adequately in order to afford their expensive hobby, so who cares what they do on their time off? The idea that gamers are somehow not properly contributing to society is a bit silly (http://www.childsplaycharity.org/). It'd be like saying that wrestling fans ought not to vote, because clearly watching burly, sweaty men grapple each other is symptomatic of deeply repressed homosexuality and as everyone knows The Gays are Destroying Our Way of Life™.

I own two pairs of (blue, off-brand) jeans and a variety of (black) slacks. The comments in this thread have got me thinking of buying some black jeans, though. I used to have a pair, must be five years or so ago now. Black goes with everything. Well, everything black.

Like posting on NSG.

In my defense, let me point out that while I'm posting on here, I'm also concurrently doing a couple of other(more useful)things, none of which involve Doritos, or Mountain Dew.

Black goes with everything. Well, everything black.
As I keep telling my wife, back goes with anything. It goes with everything, sooner or later. :D(And yes, I did steal that)

The day I give up my jeans, videogames, and the right to vote, is when they pry them from my cold dead hands!

that goes double for my cartoons!


lol :p

In my defense, let me point out that while I'm posting on here, I'm also concurrently doing a couple of other(more useful)things, none of which involve Doritos, or Mountain Dew.

While it is important and necessary to be productive and useful, a bit of recreation is also necessary. What exactly makes video games less appropriate than other hobbies?

In my defense, let me point out that while I'm posting on here, I'm also concurrently doing a couple of other(more useful)things, none of which involve Doritos, or Mountain Dew.

Why is it that me posting, watching Adult Swim, and drinking Moutain Dew, all of which im doing now, and havning worn jeans today, at 20...

all the sudden become bad things, :p

Am I the only one here who think black jeans look dumb for the most part?

Am I the only one here who think black jeans look dumb for the most part?

depends on what else im wearing...

Without a black shirt, or jacket, etc...yeah...

Meh. Gamers (presumably) hold down jobs adequately in order to afford their expensive hobby, so who cares what they do on their time off? The idea that gamers are somehow not properly contributing to society is a bit silly (http://www.childsplaycharity.org/). It'd be like saying that wrestling fans ought not to vote, because clearly watching burly, sweaty men grapple each other is symptomatic of deeply repressed homosexuality and as everyone knows The Gays are Destroying Our Way of Life™.

I own two pairs of (blue, off-brand) jeans and a variety of (black) slacks. The comments in this thread have got me thinking of buying some black jeans, though. I used to have a pair, must be five years or so ago now. Black goes with everything. Well, everything black.
I bought a pair of grey jeans and I Heart them a lot. So I recomend grey if you haven't tried it LOL

blah blah blah blah blah

Although I think revoking citizenship might be going a bit far, I do think he's got a point about the video games. I can think of better things for a grown man or(in order to avoid the PC police let me hasten to add)woman to do with their time than guiding a little pixilated cartoon around on a screen.

Yeah, adults could enjoy wholesome activities, like threatening dangerous minorities, waging war against other countries simply because they're right next to yours, abusing drugs and alcohol, abusing animals (including people), and other great make-work projects. Just like the good ole days, before games and rap gave us Jack Thompson. Nobody likes Jacko.

I hate pants in general. Why does Western society require men to wear pants (or shorts, which are just shorter versions of pants)? What's wrong with kilts and robes? If not wearing pants is bad, why would Jesus be shown wearing robes?

And don't use that "you need pants for certain jobs" bs. If we followed that train of logic, why aren't we wearing hazmat suits? Those are required for hazmat jobs. Why wear pants when you don't really need them at the time?

And tights. If pants are so important, why not tights? Tights feel better. They don't restrict you as much as pants. Have you ever tried running in jeans? They aren't built for running. They're built for the hard physical labor you guys are all afraid of. It's an insult to America. It's an insult to Zepland. It's an insult to all our beloved childhood icons, like Mickey Mouse, Mario, all of star Fox, Jesus, Abraham Lincoln, and Anpu. Won't you guys please think about Anpu's feelings for a moment? After all he's done for you? The kidneys he gave you. The gifts he gave you. The Scientologists he punched in the face. He didn't have to do that, but spoken words are too much for their brains to handle. He needed to tell them stuff in a language they could understand. Please help Anpu. Do it because pants suck.

Am I the only one here who think black jeans look dumb for the most part?

They were cool in the 90s. So yeah. Really dark blue is better.

They were cool in the 90s. So yeah.

Exactly, I don't think we're far enough into the future for the 90s to be retro quite yet.

Really dark blue is better.

:headbang:

I had hope in you but I think I've lost it. What happened to wearing just regular jeans? You know the ones, they've got that tear from hopping the barbed wire fence, the stain when you changed the oil in your car. Jeans. Plain old blue jeans, the ones that get more and more comfortable if they get dusty, faded and torn.

I don't want to hi-jack the thread into a discussion of video-games, so this will be my last word on the subject, unless someone starts a new thread.

While it is important and necessary to be productive and useful, a bit of recreation is also necessary. What exactly makes video games less appropriate than other hobbies?

Why is it that me posting, watching Adult Swim, and drinking Moutain Dew, all of which im doing now, and havning worn jeans today, at 20...all the sudden become bad things, :p

Jeans aren't bad. I love jeans, it's practically all I wear, unless there's a wedding or a funeral and I have to drag out my suit. I don't think video games are bad either, the appeal of them just completely escapes me, much the same way the appeal of anime or basketball does. I do think that there are more useful or better things you could do with your time, but, hey, if little cartoon characters are your thing, go nuts.

I do think that there are more useful or better things you could do with your time, but, hey, if little cartoon characters are your thing, go nuts.

Like posting on NS-Oh wait said that already :p

But like what exactly?

Like posting on NS-Oh wait said that already :p

But like what exactly?

I think the real question is, why do I have to do useful things in my down time...long as Im doing Useful things when they need to be done, why cant I play videogames, wear jeans, drink mountain dew, and watch Futurama when I relax?

I think the real question is, why do I have to do useful things in my down time...long as Im doing Useful things when they need to be done, why cant I play videogames, wear jeans, drink mountain dew, and watch Futurama when I relax?

Because Futurama isn't that great a show.

Because Futurama isn't that great a show.

BLASPHEME!!! :eek:

Wow. Talk about reading far too deeply into why people wear jeans.

I love wearing jeans. They're easy to match with other clothes, I find. And I wear denim skirts on occasion too. Then again, I don't give a damn about looking good, so I suppose i'm just the kind of person that article is talking about. >_>
And i'm a gamer too. Oh snap.

Of course gamers should be able to vote, and there is nothing at all wrong with jeans. Jeans are by far the most comfortable kind of pants you will find anywhere next to no pants at all.

Of course gamers should be able to vote, and there is nothing at all wrong with jeans. Jeans are by far the most comfortable kind of pants you will find anywhere next to no pants at all.

And as obnoxious as George finds the denim society to be, imagine how uncomfortable he'd be in a pantsless society...which brings us to the MST3K Pants Song:

Crow: Joel, I hate movies where the men wear shorter skirts than the women.
Tom: Yeah, I can just imagine a scene from Ancient Greece: "Oh, hi, Hercules, have a seat!! Noooo!!!"
Joel: You are so right my little itty buddies. That's why we've put together a presentation. It's a little thing we like to call: PANTS!

Tom: (singing) Pants!
Crow: Pants!
Bots: Sing the praises of pants!
Joel: Nothing better shows my taste, than what I wear below my waist!
Tom: Say! Pants! Hoo hoo!
Crow: Pants!
Bots: Sing the praises of pants!
Tom: They help me suck in my gut They always cover up my butt! Huh? Pants!
Crow: Pants!
All: Sing the praises of pants!
Crow: Wear them and you're a cool guy, as long as you zip up your fly!
Tom: Zip! Pants!
Crow: Pants!
Bots: Sing the praises of pants!
Joel: (spoken) That's right ladies and gentlemen! Consider the PANTS! You know, the Pants Association urges you to wear your pants at least three times a day!
Crow: The great men of our time have all worn pants! Roosevelt! Churchill! DeGualle! Ghandi!--Well, almost all of them!
Tom: Dolphins! One of the smartest mammals on earth. Do they wear pants? NO! But they wish they did! That's how smart they are!
Joel: What keeps our legs all warm and hot?
All: Pants!
Crow: What prevents a buffalo shot?
All: Pants!
Tom: What do they got that I ain't got?
All: Pants!
Tom: Well, you can say that again Huh?

Of course gamers should be able to vote, and there is nothing at all wrong with jeans. Jeans are by far the most comfortable kind of pants you will find anywhere next to no pants at all.

Not to mention affordable, and utilitarian...

Of course gamers should be able to vote, and there is nothing at all wrong with jeans. Jeans are by far the most comfortable kind of pants you will find anywhere next to no pants at all.
Have to disagree, jeans are relatively stiff and tight. Gym pants are way more comfortable.

The reason people wear jeans is that they save time. Suit pants you're supposed to keep clean and well ironed at all times. Jeans you don't even have to wash, although it's a good idea to do so once a month. And you don't have to worry about getting slightly damaged. Plus, they're cheaper. So as soon as they became an acceptable substitute for pants, people have switched over.


Also, Futurama is (was) that great of a show.

Jeans ARE evil, but only because you have to try on about 50 pairs to find one that's perfect.

But when you do? Hellllllls yeah.

Am I the only one here who think black jeans look dumb for the most part?

I didn't actually know they still sold black jeans.

Jeans ARE evil, but only because you have to try on about 50 pairs to find one that's perfect.

But when you do? Hellllllls yeah.
Never really had that problem. Of course, I know my measurements and I know the style that I like so jeans shopping usually takes about 10 minutes.

Never really had that problem. Of course, I know my measurements and I know the style that I like so jeans shopping usually takes about 10 minutes.

I suspect your definition of perfect and Ry...god this name bugs me...scrolls down...Ryadn's definition of perfect differ markedly.

I suspect your definition of perfect and Ry...god this name bugs me...scrolls down...Ryadn's definition of perfect differ markedly.
Very possibly. I'm a geek and my idea of perfect and fashionable makes most shudder. :tongue:

I suspect your definition of perfect and Ry...god this name bugs me...scrolls down...Ryadn's definition of perfect differ markedly.

Making your life difficult since 1983!

I'd say just having a Y chromosome makes NERVUN's experience far different, indeed.

Making your life difficult since 1983!

I'd say just having a Y chromosome makes NERVUN's experience far different, indeed.
Not quite. I do have a wife, and she DOES love her jeans. And, joy of joys, I get dragged shopping with her when she wants to get a new pair and have to deal with the dreaded "Do these make my butt look big?" question.


BTW, 10,000! FINALLY!

Making your life difficult since 1983!

It's an odd combination of letters, for some reason I expect the y between the d + n.

I'd say just having a Y chromosome makes NERVUN's experience far different, indeed.

Exactly, and on reading NERVUN's response I don't think having a wife makes much difference, I suspect the first thing new born female babies do is check out and compare the jumper suit worn by the baby in the next crib.

BTW, 10,000! FINALLY!

You can change the strapline under your name now.

actually my experience of blue denum is that it is extremely UNcomfortable until its damd near worn out, asides from looking like crap either way. i'll take my brown double knit poly bells any day. with my lime green shirts. no ties, although love beads are ok. tie die is ok, but its gots to have at least one pocket and a vee neck cause i cant stand turtles to save me.

comfort to mee is i need a pocket to carry my notebook and pens in. now some kind of leasure jacket with that is all right. but totally optional. especially when it gets too damd warm for anything.

and if you've got big harry critter hind paws you shouldn't need to be covering your feet with dead cows either. unless you're gonna go walking around where you don't know what you're gonna be stepping in. like broken beer bottles and worse.

course to be polite and sorta semi sanitary the reasonable thing is to wear something, even if you've got purdy fur hiding all your dangly bits. at least where hoomans are goona be around anyway. like in resteraunts and transit busses.

but otherwise, whatcha wear down by the creek aint no body's bussiness but your own.

You can change the strapline under your name now.
Just as soon as I can figure out HOW...

Just as soon as I can figure out HOW...

Must be in the User CP, to steal a line from Frank N' Furter, I quiver in antici...pation :)

Just as soon as I can figure out HOW...
its probably in your user cp somewhere. mods or somebody keep chainging mine which is ok, because every once in a while they come up with better ones then i would have. (although now i think i've got one from something i put in my profile somewhere, oh waite, that's location. yah the line above my avi just comes out of wherever)

Am I the only one that thinks that jeans are alright, but suits are definitely the way to go?

Must be in the User CP, to steal a line from Frank N' Furter, I quiver in antici...pation :)

I just looked, and I couldnt find anything, I think theyre pre programmed for when you reach certain numbers of posts...

although, I did just figure out that you have to actually Enable Private Messaging, one would think that would be the default, not the other way around, lol...

Must be in the User CP, to steal a line from Frank N' Furter, I quiver in antici...pation :)

its probably in your user cp somewhere. mods or somebody keep chainging mine which is ok, because every once in a while they come up with better ones then i would have. (although now i think i've got one from something i put in my profile somewhere, oh waite, that's location. yah the line above my avi just comes out of wherever)

I just looked, and I couldnt find anything, I think theyre pre programmed for when you reach certain numbers of posts...

although, I did just figure out that you have to actually Enable Private Messaging, one would think that would be the default, not the other way around, lol...
Not showing up in the user CP... Hmm... I might just have to go bug some of the over 10,000 club for how the hell you do that.

Am I the only one that thinks that jeans are alright, but suits are definitely the way to go?

I would really like to see a return to 30's/40's fashion, I saw a couple, probably going to a fancy dress party, in a train station perfectly dressed from the 30's, they were so damn smart, from his bryl-creamed hair and tweed suit to her 'Tallulah' hair and the cream tights/brown square-toed shoes she was wearing.

Something to do with them in the train station as well, so An Affair to Remember.

I hope he doesn't ban jeans even though I despise jeans. That would be cruel to those who DO like jeans.

I honestly wish this man was joking... But I know he isn't. And that scares me.

All I have to say is: While Fred Astaire didn't wear jeans, Gene Kelly did, and Kelly was more stylish, more handsome, AND a better dancer!

According to George Will anyway.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/04/15/AR2009041502861.html

You can just smell the old foggieism that rises from George Will. Cracks about how gamers shouldn't be voting aside, what is the collective wisdom of NSG? Should jeans be considered the root of all that is wrong with America? Do dress codes need to be introduced for men and women over the age of 12? And what about gamers? Should they indeed be allowed to vote?

Wow... that guy hasn't got ANY other problems? Seriously? I kind of envy him that.

Other than that, it's a load of rubbish.
Jeans do not communicate indifference to appearance, on the contrary. People spend hours and days looking for jeans that fit right, and show off their bodies in the best possible manner. They're also willing to spend hundreds of euros for the right brand name on them.

If anything, jeans are an indicator of how fashion-conscious people are, not how indifferent.
The fact that jeans started out as working clothes doesn't have any bearing on what they are today. After all, you don't tell the cute lady in the knee-high boots where she's hidden her horse, do you?

Dress codes are in order. Suits and dresses should be rule, not the exception.
Jeans should be banned ! ( unless they´re cut short shorts and your name is Daisy Duke, of course.. )

According to George Will anyway.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/04/15/AR2009041502861.html

You can just smell the old foggieism that rises from George Will. Cracks about how gamers shouldn't be voting aside, what is the collective wisdom of NSG? Should jeans be considered the root of all that is wrong with America? Do dress codes need to be introduced for men and women over the age of 12? And what about gamers? Should they indeed be allowed to vote?

Meh! are the cloths that you wear really that important? I say fuck no!

The cloths do not maketh the man, what the man does maketh the man, what he wears is just to keep him warm, and stop people ooooolgling his nekkid body.

Jeans are for really mega cool people who are so much better than you. Yep. Exactly.

(I have just about worn out my current pair. Need a new one methinks... still, I figured out how to do so now, what cut etc. Being a male is so easy...)

George Will's next essay, "Lawns: Why Can't The Young People Just Keep Off 'Em?," is eagerly anticipated.

George Will's next essay, "Lawns: Why Can't The Young People Just Keep Off 'Em?," is eagerly anticipated.

Bwahahahhahahahhah.

I hope he doesn't wear a necktie, it will just make it easier for people to kill him. Or perhaps he can try wearing his coat-and-tie in my city's 35-degree-Centigrade heat. Let's see if he can last that long. :p

Honestly, the world has too many problems to even bother with that rant about jeans. This is coming from a person who hates jeans, they're just too uncomfortable.

Reminds me of some sort of dress code enforced in some churches here in the country. Dress code, wtf? God created us naked, who has the right to dictate what we wear when I go to the House of God? :mad:

:D

Reminds me of some sort of dress code enforced in some churches here in the country. Dress code, wtf? God created us naked, who has the right to dictate what we wear when I go to the House of God? :mad:

:D

Nekkid church? Man now I could get with that.

George Will's next essay, "Lawns: Why Can't The Young People Just Keep Off 'Em?," is eagerly anticipated.

Ahahaha. AHahahahahahaha.

Ahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahaha.

Nekkid church? Man now I could get with that.
The dirt is in the minds of wo/men. You go to the priest to have your mind cleaned. :p

Nekkid church? Man now I could get with that.

You'd see a lot more fantasies about the Pastor's daughter.

The fact that jeans started out as working clothes doesn't have any bearing on what they are today. After all, you don't tell the cute lady in the knee-high boots where she's hidden her horse, do you?

Actually, I tend to do just that. Especially if she displays the urgent need to put her pants inside her boots (even if they are just mid-calf-high).

I'm also wearing a pair of jeans right now. One that (seriously) has several rips created by physical misbehavior/carelessness on my part, and an oil stain from when I repaired my bike. I've also recently acquired a skin-tight dark black pair that makes my ass look truly divine.

I have the feeling that Mr Will would also object to most of my other pants, including mainly corduroy and mud-colored cargo-ish stuff.

Oh and like khakis are so much better? Whatever. America is working class people. Don't forget that. Jeans caught on because they are very versatile. They speak a lot about what makes up America. Namely we do not care if your wear a business suit to the office. The last time I thought about what Fred Astaire wore was never. Just look around the street and you will quickly see who is in the minority.

This is bordering on elitism. With regard to gamers is it any worse then going out every night and getting drunk and picking up women? How about dining in fancy smancy restaurants just so we can "be seen"? Oooh how about art galleries and other social butterfly events. Get stuffed pal. Your side lost, we won and we are not going away.

Actually, I tend to do just that. Especially if she displays the urgent need to put her pants inside her boots (even if they are just mid-calf-high).

I'm also wearing a pair of jeans right now. One that (seriously) has several rips created by physical misbehavior/carelessness on my part, and an oil stain from when I repaired my bike. I've also recently acquired a skin-tight dark black pair that makes my ass look truly divine.

I have the feeling that Mr Will would also object to most of my other pants, including mainly corduroy and mud-colored cargo-ish stuff.

I think Mr Will would object to you on the grounds that you are speaking without being spoken to.

Oooh how about art galleries and other social butterfly events. Get stuffed pal. Your side lost, we won and we are not going away.


Huh are you saying the next time I vist a gallery I'll have to whip me kecks off first?

I wear jeans. They're the safest pants for lab wear -- it takes a lot for chemicals to go through them. Besides, it's next to impossible to find dress pants that fit at thrift stores up here.

I wear jeans. They're the safest pants for lab wear -- it takes a lot for chemicals to go through them. Besides, it's next to impossible to find dress pants that fit at thrift stores up here.

And I crawl under desks all day for a living, so jeans are a must.

Kind of Ironic a Baby Boomer making fun of Generation X and later generations. Usually it is us making fun of them.

By the way it also works for Steve Jobs why mess with a good thing?

And I crawl under desks all day for a living, so jeans are a must.

Ms. Lewinski?

In my defense, let me point out that while I'm posting on here, I'm also concurrently doing a couple of other(more useful)things, none of which involve Doritos, or Mountain Dew.

Its the Doritos and Mountain Dew tasks that pay the most. They don't even mind if you have blue hair.

Ms. Lewinski?

Heh, no my freind IT support!

Why is it that me posting, watching Adult Swim, and drinking Moutain Dew, all of which im doing now, and havning worn jeans today, at 20...

all the sudden become bad things, :p



Because the writer has nothing else to complain about. Besides it is a ploy. Make them hate you and your readership will skyrocket.

Am I the only one here who think black jeans look dumb for the most part?

Yes I have couple. Blue, black what is the difference?

Yes I have couple. Blue, black what is the difference?

The colour? :tongue:

The colour? :tongue:

*gasp* racism!:eek2:

I suspect a certain disjuncture between the USA and UK exists on this issue; jeans of all colours seem to be standard dress code until a certain age. However, I do agree that adults perpetually in jeans are lacking a little in style.

I suspect a certain disjuncture between the USA and UK exists on this issue; jeans of all colours seem to be standard dress code until a certain age. However, I do agree that adults perpetually in jeans are lacking a little in style.

Am I thinking jeans are something different in the US?

Do I not see designer jeans for adults everywhere?

Do people not know stylish jeans when they see it?

And when I wear my tight fitting jeans I know I look good in them.

I sure do wish I could leave such a privileged life that I could wax philosophical about blue jeans for a living.

You know that is something that bugged me. Since when are khakis more acceptable than blue jeans? What because they are beige they are so much better? If you examine the material they are pretty close lately. The pockets are pretty much the same. If we are talking cargo pants then they have even more pockets and tend to be baggy. If you like suits fine wear them but most of us don't and I don't want to grow up.

I suspect a certain disjuncture between the USA and UK exists on this issue; jeans of all colours seem to be standard dress code until a certain age. However, I do agree that adults perpetually in jeans are lacking a little in style.

I tend to think jeans look ok most of the time. Certainly no worse than the other varieties of pant available. And hey, they're more practical than any of the alternatives.

Oh and like khakis are so much better? Whatever. America is working class people. Don't forget that. Jeans caught on because they are very versatile. They speak a lot about what makes up America. Namely we do not care if your wear a business suit to the office. The last time I thought about what Fred Astaire wore was never. Just look around the street and you will quickly see who is in the minority.

This is bordering on elitism. With regard to gamers is it any worse then going out every night and getting drunk and picking up women? How about dining in fancy smancy restaurants just so we can "be seen"? Oooh how about art galleries and other social butterfly events. Get stuffed pal. Your side lost, we won and we are not going away.

Really??? First time I even heard the words "dress code" was when I was working for an US American company...

Really??? First time I even heard the words "dress code" was when I was working for an US American company...

See there are still a few left, and we are working to get rid of those too. Their side is loosing. Wall Street and the big financial firms are probably the only places left. Mostly I think they just like wearing suits.

See there are still a few left, and we are working to get rid of those too. Their side is loosing. Wall Street and the big financial firms are probably the only places left. Mostly I think they just like wearing suits.

Funny... it wasn't a big one, and it certainly wasn't a financial firm...

I wear them any time I'm not at work and going out somewhere. I just find them far more comfortable and sturdier than anything else. Besides, I have to wear slacks and a shirt and tie when I teach, why on earth would I wear something simular on my time off if I could possibly help it?

Exactly this.

George Will is off his rocker if he thinks denim is to blame.

Indoctrination does not stem from clothing. Clothing perhaps abets the crime of clique formation, but by itself does not have the power that Will is ascribing to it. He may as well have titled the article, "Demon Denim, and hey you kids, get off my lawn".

The colour? :tongue:

*gasp* racism!

God damn blacks! (jeans that is, not the people) :p

You know that is something that bugged me. Since when are khakis more acceptable than blue jeans? What because they are beige they are so much better? If you examine the material they are pretty close lately. The pockets are pretty much the same. If we are talking cargo pants then they have even more pockets and tend to be baggy. If you like suits fine wear them but most of us don't and I don't want to grow up.

Well call me an unfasihinable slob if you lke but, isn't Khaki a colour?

I'm unlikely to be wearing jeans too much for several months, but only because it will be too warm; I will be wearing shorts instead.

Well, I might wear jeans to SCA fighter practice, especially as we don't have much loaner leg protection, I do not have my own leg protection, and denim is at least slightly better protection than bare flesh.

But when it's not too warm, I love wearing jeans. I rather like the way I look in jeans and a black t-shirt.

And, like Peepelonia, I do tech support (though I'm only part time, between classes), so jeans are great when I have to crawl under desks.

the one thing that gets me about jeans is that it occasionally strikes me just how weird it is that our culture has declared that standard dress means wearing blue pants. imagine the same mass coloration, but with non-denim pants. it would just look ridiculous.

Made out of what was originally industrial strength curtain material...

...how about that for just tossing further weird in?

Really??? First time I even heard the words "dress code" was when I was working for an US American company...

It's part of a mean joke we like to play on the people who live "over there".

Of course gamers should be able to vote, and there is nothing at all wrong with jeans. Jeans are by far the most comfortable kind of pants you will find anywhere next to no pants at all.

Well, I don't have a problem with people wearing jeans. But your last statement there is simply untrue. The most comfortable type of trousers ever invented are called salwars, especially for hot weather. After that, lightweight slacks are still more comfortable than jeans.

Jeans are good for doing physical work in, or anything involving likely damage to one's clothing. I prefer solid khaki cargo trousers for that myself, and I think the very best way to do it would be a few pairs of LastWear's cargo hakama, but I simply can't afford to go for that.

I would really like to see a return to 30's/40's fashion, I saw a couple, probably going to a fancy dress party, in a train station perfectly dressed from the 30's, they were so damn smart, from his bryl-creamed hair and tweed suit to her 'Tallulah' hair and the cream tights/brown square-toed shoes she was wearing.

Something to do with them in the train station as well, so An Affair to Remember.

Better still, 1830's/40's. I was at an Abney Park gig on Saturday, and the audience were turned out absolutely perfectly in steampunk style - top hats, morning coats, flash cravats, waistcoats and pocketwatches, and the like. Incredible group.

I had to google who Fred Astaire was.

I hereby declare anything written by George Will to be an abuse of freedom.

Hey Will, I got a better idea. Old people who comment on how much better things were 'back in their day' shouldnt be allowed to vote.

Denim is the infantile uniform of a nation in which entertainment frequently features childlike adults ("Seinfeld")...
Looks like Mr. Will still has a bone to pick with Seinfeld:
In the Seinfeld Season 6 episode "The Jimmy", when asked if he was able to find another man attractive, Cosmo Kramer responds that he finds Will handsome, citing his clean looks, but does not think he is "all that bright."

Better still, 1830's/40's. I was at an Abney Park gig on Saturday, and the audience were turned out absolutely perfectly in steampunk style - top hats, morning coats, flash cravats, waistcoats and pocketwatches, and the like. Incredible group.
Have you actually tried to wear that junk though? Uncomfortable doesn't even begin to describe it.

According to George Will anyway.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/04/15/AR2009041502861.html

You can just smell the old foggieism that rises from George Will. Cracks about how gamers shouldn't be voting aside, what is the collective wisdom of NSG? Should jeans be considered the root of all that is wrong with America? Do dress codes need to be introduced for men and women over the age of 12? And what about gamers? Should they indeed be allowed to vote?

I bet George Will dresses like a foppish dandy. My Dad wears jeans and he isnt a kid. He is in his 50s. I just do not get it.

Have you actually tried to wear that junk though? Uncomfortable doesn't even begin to describe it.

'Big in Japan'?

That's it?

As my old teacher would say, 'must try harder'.

Jeans: $20
T-shirt: $5
Baseball cap: $15
Basic running shoes: $40

Irritating George Will: Priceless.

I had to google who Fred Astaire was.

:eek::eek::eek:

'Big in Japan'?

That's it?

As my old teacher would say, 'must try harder'.
Naw. More like just found the bloody thing and wanted to see how it worked before runing off to class. Now comes the search for something interesting.

I love my jeans. They look good. Nothing wrong with them! Except girls seem to get a bit excited when I walk past, opps ;)

I love my jeans. They look good. Nothing wrong with them! Except girls seem to get a bit excited when I walk past, opps ;)

Bloody player, did I mention I don't like you? :D

Nah I like my jeans (my tighter fitting pair that is) I just feel as if I look really good in them. whether I do or not is another issue.

Bloody player, did I mention I don't like you? :D

Nah I like my jeans (my tighter fitting pair that is) I just feel as if I look really good in them. whether I do or not is another issue.

You love me. And I'm not a player, I've settled down... Ish.

Don't like my tight jeans. I got new ones that have a little bit of give - far nicer in my opinion. And can dress them up too.

You love me. And I'm not a player, I've settled down... Ish.

Yeah I can't deny that. I'll accept that you can't exactly have the girls swoon over you the moment you enter a room nowadays can you.

Don't like my tight jeans. I got new ones that have a little bit of give - far nicer in my opinion. And can dress them up too.

Well when I say tight I don't mean second skin tight but tight where it counts, i.e around my firm buttocks.

Jeans suck. You can't really run in them very good and they're uncomfortable.

Pants suck in general. If I didn't need them in order to have any success in life (jobs frown on the whole kilt thing), I'd be a kilt man. Not neccessarily plaid, but yeah. If God hated dicks, he wouldn't have made them standard on males. Not that not wearing pants means not wearing underwear. Some things are best left to the imagination, especially if they are seventy years old.

There's nothing wrong about wearing something other than pants. Have you ever seen pictures of Jesus wearing pants? No. And there's nothing bad about him. Don't mention his fanclub because you can't always judge a man by the fanclub that exagerates his life millennia after his death.

We need to revolt against pants. Pants are the clothing of the oppressed and uncomfortable.

George Will ... meh. Yet another confirmation of what conservatism is:

Conservatism is the tacit acknowledgment that all that is finally important in human experience is behind us; that the crucial explorations have been undertaken, and that it is given to man to know what are the great truths that emerged from them. Whatever is to come cannot outweigh the importance to man of what has gone before.

Now, I will grant you that Fred Astaire was a supremely stylish man and Grace Kelly an ethereally beautiful woman, but they are paragons in a sense, ideals we might strive for but not in the everyday world.

I like the fact that I can get dressed up when I want, without being required to do so. I wear jeans quite a bit but something more dressy when it is called for, or a lot more dressy when that is what's wanted.

This is bordering on elitism.

It is elitism, that's the whole point.

Hey, I like my denim. What the hell else am I supposed to wear when I go out Lumberjacking if not denim and flannel?!?

George Will is a twazzock.

That is all.

Should jeans be considered the root of all that is wrong with America? Do dress codes need to be introduced for men and women over the age of 12?

Why introduce a dress code? We're better without it - so idiots will continue to wear horrible clothes and will be recognised more easily.

Anyway: very often I wear a shirt, tie, jacket and jeans. Quite normal, quite comfortable, somewhat formal but not too much.

Why introduce a dress code? We're better without it - so idiots will continue to wear horrible clothes and will be recognised more easily.

Anyway: very often I wear a shirt, tie, jacket and jeans. Quite normal, quite comfortable, somewhat formal but not too much.

Wait you wear a suit but with jeans?

Well you are right about recognising people who wear horrible clothes. :p

http://yglesias.thinkprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/george_will_2.jpg

...

I never trust any man who wears a bowtie. There's something about bowties that I find disturbing. It announces to the world that the wearer is someone who thinks themselves superior - smugly so - than the rest of us.

In simpler language, I think any man wearing a bowtie (other than with a tuxedo and in a ballroom) is a ****.


Looking at the magnification on his glasses, he must be as blind as a bat.


All said, I don't particularly like jeans myself. I find them too constrictive and uncomfortable, especially in Summer.

Anyway: very often I wear a shirt, tie, jacket and jeans.
The only people I can think who would wear such an ensemble are art critics.
Please tell me you're not an art critic.

Hey, I like my denim. What the hell else am I supposed to wear when I go out Lumberjacking if not denim and flannel?!?

Kilts, maybe? Kilts don't have to be plaid, despite what the Scots would unintentionally lead you to believe.

But some people think that men should be shackled in their pants and never experience the freedom of actually being able to run without those damn jeans constantly rubbing against your legs, slowly giving you friction burn and slowing down your running. Those damn crafty women, wearing their confortable skirts and then claiming that we men should be ashamed of ourselves for not allowing them the "freedom" of uncomfortable, restrictive legwear. Meanwhile, they get to wear their skirts without being judged.

George Will has never had an original idea.

I mean it.

He gets his arcane trivia and even his witty wording from an obscure savant in the DC area who is too timid to be a media star but who ghost writes for frauds like Will.

George, go look in the offices of Silicon Valley; check up on people who make more in a year than you will in a life time.

They not only wear jeans and tees, they might even wear sandals!

@@;;

And they are all tanned and buff and beautiful, unlike your pasty squishy self.

Kilts, maybe? Kilts don't have to be plaid, despite what the Scots would unintentionally lead you to believe.
Damn well better believe that they don't!
http://www.utilikilts.com/

And for the lumberjack: http://www.utilikilts.com/index.php?page_id=30

Wait you wear a suit but with jeans?


It's not a suit of course. Seesh.
Wanna teach fashion to a Milanese? We don't follow trends. We set them.

It's not a suit of course. Seesh.
Wanna teach fashion to a Milanese? We don't follow trends. We set them.

Well of course but I stand by the rest of my statement. As for setting them, well let me know when it becomes an accepted norm. :p

Long ago, when James Dean and Marlon Brando wore it, denim was, Akst says, "a symbol of youthful defiance." Today, Silicon Valley billionaires are rebels without causes beyond poses, wearing jeans when introducing new products. Akst's summa contra denim is grand as far as it goes, but it only scratches the surface of this blight on Americans' surfaces. Denim is the infantile uniform of a nation in which entertainment frequently features childlike adults ("Seinfeld," "Two and a Half Men") and cartoons for adults ("King of the Hill"). Seventy-five percent of American "gamers" -- people who play video games -- are older than 18 and nevertheless are allowed to vote. In their undifferentiated dress, children and their childish parents become undifferentiated audiences for juvenilized movies (the six -- so far -- "Batman" adventures and "Indiana Jones and the Credit-Default Swaps," coming soon to a cineplex near you). Denim is the clerical vestment for the priesthood of all believers in democracy's catechism of leveling -- thou shalt not dress better than society's most slovenly. To do so would be to commit the sin of lookism -- of believing that appearance matters. That heresy leads to denying the universal appropriateness of everything, and then to the elitist assertion that there is good and bad taste.


http://www.angelzfunnyz.com/Portals/0/Gallery/Album/2/OffMyLawn.jpg

I never trust any man who wears a bowtie. There's something about bowties that I find disturbing. It announces to the world that the wearer is someone who thinks themselves superior - smugly so - than the rest of us.

In simpler language, I think any man wearing a bowtie (other than with a tuxedo and in a ballroom) is a ****.


Looking at the magnification on his glasses, he must be as blind as a bat.


All said, I don't particularly like jeans myself. I find them too constrictive and uncomfortable, especially in Summer.

Right! Les Nessman from WKRP in Cincinnati. Most people hate ties never mind a bow-tie. What purpose does a tie serve? other than it catches coffee drips fairly well. This was a French invention if I am not mistaken? Lately there has been too much Khaki everyone seems to look like the just stepped out of the Gap.

Don't get me wrong I wear them too. Beige is over done though. Maybe it is just me.

Beside where am I going that I need to wear a suit? The subway in New York oh great? How about sitting on a bus? Then for 10 to 20 minutes at work people ask you if you have a job interview or if you are going out somewhere special?


Pass.

George Will is a twazzock.

That is all.

Quite.

On the subject of fashion, I will say that I find the reversed baseball cap particularly unappealing. There is an age beyond which it does not look cute. That age is 18 months.

It is, he says, a manifestation of "the modern trend toward undifferentiated dressing....

...This is not complicated. For men, sartorial good taste can be reduced to one rule: If Fred Astaire would not have worn it, don't wear it. For women, substitute Grace Kelly.
He wants to substitute one form of undifferentiated dressing for another. If people want to wear jeans, let them. If people want to dress like Fred Astaire, let them. And if people want to dress up in chicken suits, point them in LG's direction.

Quite.

On the subject of fashion, I will say that I find the reversed baseball cap particularly unappealing. There is an age beyond which it does not look cute. That age is 18 months.
Agreed. Also unappealing is the 'rebel' who has quite obviously put a lot of time, effort and money into making sure he looks rebellious enough before setting out.
The ones whose hair hangs over one eye just so, whose clothes have a sufficient number of holes and frayed edges in them, and whose pants top are the proper distance from the top of his butt.

Agreed. Also unappealing is the 'rebel' who has quite obviously put a lot of time, effort and money into making sure he looks rebellious enough before setting out.
The ones whose hair hangs over one eye just so, whose clothes have a sufficient number of holes and frayed edges in them, and whose pants top are the proper distance from the top of his butt.

:D

However, hair over one eye isn't always bad (http://twolia.com/blogs/heres-looking-like-you-kid/files/2008/11/veronica-lake.jpg)

:D

However, hair over one eye isn't always bad
Certainly not on the right person - and she is definitely the right person!

But when it's a 17yr old try-hard wannabe rebel who spends the entire bus trip teasing and geling his hair to stay over that one specific eye in order to make himself look moody and rebellious, it just looks....well,...pathetic. Someone's been reading Twilight.
(saw this myself the other day coming home from work)

Re Op. What a bunch of elietist tripe. GFW is just one of those wannabe elitist who spent his whole life trying to be better than us and is upset that current trends in fasion don't emphasise this philosphy sufficiently enough for his for his prissy little rich-boy tastes. Put on a top-hat and go build a time machine GFW, you elitist throw back to the 19th century. Your blood would look great great speckled across my slovenly jordache jeans.

Of course gamers should be able to vote, and there is nothing at all wrong with jeans. Jeans are by far the most comfortable kind of pants you will find anywhere next to no pants at all.

Nah, BDU's are much more comfortable.

Wow... that guy hasn't got ANY other problems? Seriously? I kind of envy him that.

Other than that, it's a load of rubbish.
Jeans do not communicate indifference to appearance, on the contrary. People spend hours and days looking for jeans that fit right, and show off their bodies in the best possible manner. They're also willing to spend hundreds of euros for the right brand name on them.

If anything, jeans are an indicator of how fashion-conscious people are, not how indifferent.
The fact that jeans started out as working clothes doesn't have any bearing on what they are today. After all, you don't tell the cute lady in the knee-high boots where she's hidden her horse, do you?
I might

The only people I can think who would wear such an ensemble are art critics.
Please tell me you're not an art critic.

I'm not. I'm the scientifical advisor for my party's delegation at the regional council.

Well of course but I stand by the rest of my statement. As for setting them, well let me know when it becomes an accepted norm. :p

Around here? Quite normal. I also wear that sometimes at La Scala if I'm in the balconies - I go for something more formal for the parterre.

Oh, btw, it's accepted even at the Parliament here.

Have you actually tried to wear that junk though? Uncomfortable doesn't even begin to describe it.

If badly fitted, yes. When it fits well, and you're the right sort of build for it, it's a hundred times better than jeans any day.

Jeans suck. You can't really run in them very good and they're uncomfortable.

Pants suck in general. If I didn't need them in order to have any success in life (jobs frown on the whole kilt thing), I'd be a kilt man. Not neccessarily plaid, but yeah. If God hated dicks, he wouldn't have made them standard on males. Not that not wearing pants means not wearing underwear. Some things are best left to the imagination, especially if they are seventy years old.

There's nothing wrong about wearing something other than pants. Have you ever seen pictures of Jesus wearing pants? No. And there's nothing bad about him. Don't mention his fanclub because you can't always judge a man by the fanclub that exagerates his life millennia after his death.

We need to revolt against pants. Pants are the clothing of the oppressed and uncomfortable.

Amen.

Fred Astaire? I think Frank Sinatra's a better example.

the one thing that gets me about jeans is that it occasionally strikes me just how weird it is that our culture has declared that standard dress means wearing blue pants. imagine the same mass coloration, but with non-denim pants. it would just look ridiculous.

Personally I prefer black pants. Black never goes out of style.

Fred Astaire? I think Frank Sinatra's a better example.

But Astaire hearkens back to an even early part of the 20th century than Sinatra. And Fred never had all those teenagers swooning and shrieking over him. So vulgar, don't you know.

Around here? Quite normal. I also wear that sometimes at La Scala if I'm in the balconies - I go for something more formal for the parterre.

Oh, btw, it's accepted even at the Parliament here.

In the words of Obelix (adapated to modern times) "The Italians are crazy" :tongue:

Well, they did elect Berlusconi again, despite the fact that the guy is a bigger crook than Nixon.

Nah, BDU's are much more comfortable.
No argument there, but I save work clothes for work. I haven't worn jeans (or BDUs) in public since I was commissioned as a Second Lieutenant -- way back in 1979.
That's what cords, khakis, and other casual clothing is for.

Fred Astaire? I think Frank Sinatra's a better example.
Astaire is much more elegant than Sinatra. I'm just not sure I can pull off wearing a dress as well as Grace Kelly could.

Astaire is much more elegant than Sinatra. I'm just not sure I can pull off wearing a dress as well as Grace Kelly could.

Nonsense. You've got the legs for that. ;)

No argument there, but I save work clothes for work. I haven't worn jeans (or BDUs) in public since I was commissioned as a Second Lieutenant -- way back in 1979.
That's what cords, khakis, and other casual clothing is for.

I wear the same (type of) clothing regardless of whether I'm working or not...

T-shirt (Black, Dark Blue, or Dark Green) and Black BDU bottoms

I wear the same (type of) clothing regardless of whether I'm working or not...

T-shirt (Black, Dark Blue, or Dark Green) and Black BDU bottoms
Back in the "Old Corps", we weren't even allowed to go into the Exchange without being properly dressed. No PT clothes, no jeans, no T-shirts... Habits are hard to break.

I don't know if y'all make a toast like this on the Marine Corps Birthday, but I always like to raise a toast to the Marine Corps and its "233 years of tradition, unhampered by progress." Now that I'm retired, I toast a little louder than before.

As long as you're not the creator of a gaming webcomic, it probably won't hurt to allow you to vote. Probably.

EDIT: this was a reaction to a post which seems to have miraculously disappeared while I was writing above response. Strange.

Back in the "Old Corps", we weren't even allowed to go into the Exchange without being properly dressed. No PT clothes, no jeans, no T-shirts... Habits are hard to break.

It was the same when I was in, however, I am now a civilian so I can wear what I want when I want... :D

I don't know if y'all make a toast like this on the Marine Corps Birthday, but I always like to raise a toast to the Marine Corps and its "233 years of tradition, unhampered by progress." Now that I'm retired, I toast a little louder than before.

I usually do something to celebrate the Marine Corps B-day.

I've never liked jeans much. Too uncomfortable. Have worn cotton my entire life (save for weddings and a funeral).

I've never liked jeans much. Too uncomfortable. Have worn cotton my entire life (save four weddings and a funeral).

Fixed ;)
Ok, I'm sorry, I'll leave now...

Fixed ;)
Ok, I'm sorry, I'll leave now...
hi-fucking-larious! :D Thanks for the laugh! :)

hi-fucking-larious! :D Thanks for the laugh! :)

Thank you, thank you, I'm here all week. But seriously folks, don't try the veal. It's worse for your health than a pair of acid washed skinny legs!

Astaire is much more elegant than Sinatra. I'm just not sure I can pull off wearing a dress as well as Grace Kelly could.

Elegant, sure. But Frank had that gritty, masculine aspect to him.

How does he feel about courdroy :D

I've never liked jeans much. Too uncomfortable. Have worn cotton my entire life (save for weddings and a funeral).

Denim IS cotton...isn't it? The wicking aspect of the fabric is why jeans are not good in the rain.

This thread is still going?

Denim IS cotton...isn't it? The wicking aspect of the fabric is why jeans are not good in the rain.

One of many reasons I stopped wearing jeans years ago. They get so heavy when they're wet, too!

Elegant, sure. But Frank had that gritty, masculine aspect to him.
Yes, but even in a Tux, Sinatra still looked like a thug. Astaire was still a work of sartorial splendor when wearing casual clothes.

Yes, but even in a Tux, Sinatra still looked like a thug. Astaire was still a work of sartorial splendor when wearing casual clothes.

This ^.