NationStates Jolt Archive


Say Goodbye to the Goat

Christmahanikwanzikah
25-04-2009, 00:17
Sorry, Cubs fans, I don't mean the particular animal that has "cursed" your team to mediocrity for the past century... I mean the GTO and the Pontiac brand name.

http://money.cnn.com/2009/04/24/autos/pontiac_obit/index.htm?postversion=2009042414

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- General Motors is preparing to announce that the Pontiac car brand, once marketed as GM's "Excitement division," will be killed off, according to a source familiar with the decision.

An official announcement is expected Monday. GM spokesman Jim Hopson declined to comment on Pontiac's fate, saying the automaker has no announcements to make at this time.

In its most recent "viability plan" - which will be updated to reflect this new brand cut - Pontiac was not named as one of GM's four "core brands." Those are Chevrolet, Buick, GMC and Cadillac. But Pontiac was also not to be killed or sold off, as were Saturn, Saab and Hummer.

Instead Pontiac was to continue on as a "niche brand" focusing on just a few models.

That was already a step down for Pontiac which in 2008 was the third-best selling brand behind Chevrolet and GMC. That year the brand sold more than Cadillac and twice as many vehicles as Buick. Cadillac is a high-profile - and high profit - luxury brand while Buick is a hugely popular brand in China and is seen as resurgent in the United States.

In 2005, GM (GM, Fortune 500) vice-chairman Bob Lutz referred to Buick and Pontiac as "damaged brands" during a conference at the New York Auto Show. That set off speculation that one or both of these brands was doomed.

With a focus on affordable luxury, Buick's hopes have been revived by models like the popular Enclave crossover SUV. Improvements in Buick Quality, which earned a top ranking in a recent J.D. Power dependability survey and a public acknowledgement by President Obama, have also helped Buick keep its place in the shrinking pantheon of GM names.

It seemed inevitable that, after GM planned piss-poor offerings of classic and new Pontiac cars, including the Solstice, the G8 and the famous GTO (the last two based entirely off of GM's Holden division in Australia), GM would axe the once-famous muscle car manufacturer. As the GTO goes, so does the Firebird, another of Pontiac's famous front-engined, rear-drive pavement mashers that wasn't remade. Succumbing to major power losses due to the Clean Air Act, and slow to pick up their old performance numbers after the introduction of pollutant-reducing exhaust management systems, I thought they would resurge after producing a couple of good cars based off of solid chassis, but a much-more-than-lackluster showing from the GTO (let's just forget they even remade it, much less that it was a sedan that looked nothing like a muscle car), they now look to be ready to be lowered into the grave.


On one hand, GM is going to drop a company that it has let drag down its profits. On the other, the Pontiac name brought more performance excitement to the GM name than any other offering not named Corvette or Cobalt.

What are your feelings about the likely dissolution of this brand?
Vault 10
25-04-2009, 00:21
I hope they end the Goat with a Special Edition.
No true scotsman
25-04-2009, 00:52
It's a bit of a token, given that two 'big releases' upcoming from GM are this:

http://www.camaroblog.com/image/100180377_2010-camaro-brochure

and

this: http://www.examiner.com/x-2479-Chicago-Autos-Examiner~y2009m4d24-Industry-news-Chevrolet-announces-new-Corvette-Grand-Sport

GM aren't really serious, yet... which makes me wonder if they ever will be.
Christmahanikwanzikah
25-04-2009, 01:02
It's a bit of a token, given that two 'big releases' upcoming from GM are this:

http://www.camaroblog.com/image/100180377_2010-camaro-brochure

and

this: http://www.examiner.com/x-2479-Chicago-Autos-Examiner~y2009m4d24-Industry-news-Chevrolet-announces-new-Corvette-Grand-Sport

GM aren't really serious, yet... which makes me wonder if they ever will be.

But they made the Corvette ZR1, which is ridiculously fast, light, and well balanced... but looks like a normal Corvette inside and out.
Smunkeeville
25-04-2009, 03:41
Sorry, Cubs fans, I don't mean the particular animal that has "cursed" your team to mediocrity for the past century... I mean the GTO and the Pontiac brand name.
Not mediocrity, we've done well, just not right there at the end.......;) Also, I'm more concerned with the Merkle curse.....the goat thing has been reversed.

*ignores GTO thingy*
Christmahanikwanzikah
25-04-2009, 08:09
Not mediocrity, we've done well, just not right there at the end.......;)

Success is measured in the World Series, not at the end of the regular season. :tongue:
Dragontide
25-04-2009, 11:52
My Gand Prix sucked so piss on em! We need hybrid-bio-composite body cars. With that, aerodynamics becomes less of a factor, so any body style from the past could be brought back. I want a nuke green Bio-Cuda!
:D
Vault 10
25-04-2009, 14:01
But they made the Corvette ZR1, which is ridiculously fast, light, and well balanced... but looks like a normal Corvette inside and out.
That is called track tune. Like an Evo MR FQ400.

It only looks normal though. Even the less track-focused Z06 still doesn't work on the road, according to those who have tested all three.
East Coast Federation
25-04-2009, 15:51
That is called track tune. Like an Evo MR FQ400.

It only looks normal though. Even the less track-focused Z06 still doesn't work on the road, according to those who have tested all three.

The ZR1 is a little bit more then a track tune, its supposedly pretty freildy and comfortable on the road.

As Clarkson said. " You don't expect a car as tame and comfortable as this one to be as fast as an Enzo "

I was in a Z06 recently and never made a judgement until then; it is NOT undriveable on the road.

You could easily live with it day by day, though I would still rather drive a merc for a DD :D

Also on a side note:

Clarkson is not the best source out there. He thinks the Z06 has leaf springs.

http://www.thevettedoctors.com/images/2006%20Major%20Spray%20C5R%20Turbo%20Z06/pauls%20zo6%20c5r%20001-suspension.jpg

Don't see any there :D
Naturality
25-04-2009, 19:51
My Gand Prix sucked so piss on em! We need hybrid-bio-composite body cars. With that, aerodynamics becomes less of a factor, so any body style from the past could be brought back. I want a nuke green Bio-Cuda!
:D

Best car I ever had was a Pontiac. Drove it 11 years.

Pontiac is my favorite of GM .. along with Buick and GMC trucks.
Intangelon
25-04-2009, 20:04
Good riddance, and 30 years too damned late.

The whole US automaker notion of several brands under one manufacturer (and offering the SAME CARS with different badging) was so ridiculously wasteful, it's no wonder these idiots are going under. And damn my government for trying to save them two years after making personal bankruptcy much more difficult.
East Coast Federation
25-04-2009, 20:06
Best car I ever had was a Pontiac. Drove it 11 years.

Pontiac is my favorite of GM .. along with Buick and GMC trucks.

Damn straight, I love my GM, 2007 Impala SS :D

Buick also stole Lexus's title as most reliable car.
Vault 10
25-04-2009, 20:21
Buick also stole Lexus's title as most reliable car.
Wonder if this title will stay with it for more than a couple years though.
East Coast Federation
26-04-2009, 06:50
Wonder if this title will stay with it for more than a couple years though.

I think it could stay in the top 5 for a long time, GM has really been steeping up the quality once they realized that people do not want to buy a new car every 3 years. Most Post 2000 GM vehicle's are ALOT better than the shit they put out in the 80s and 90s.
Intangelon
26-04-2009, 10:36
I think it could stay in the top 5 for a long time, GM has really been steeping up the quality once they realized that people do not want to buy a new car every 3 years. Most Post 2000 GM vehicle's are ALOT better than the shit they put out in the 80s and 90s.

Again, 30+ years too late.
greed and death
26-04-2009, 11:01
I think it could stay in the top 5 for a long time, GM has really been steeping up the quality once they realized that people do not want to buy a new car every 3 years. Most Post 2000 GM vehicle's are ALOT better than the shit they put out in the 80s and 90s.

I would assume most car companies put out better cars over time. It is not the lack of improvement so much as the slow pace of improvement relative to competitors that destroys a company.