NationStates Jolt Archive

http://torrentfreak.com/pirate-bay-lawyer-is-biased-calls-for-a-retrial-090423/

The copyright industry likes to have the outcome of processes clear before engaging them so it’s perhaps unsurprising that SR today revealed that the judge Tomas Norström is in league with it on many fronts. The judge has several engagements - together with the prosecution lawyers for the movie and music industries.

Swedish Association of Copyright (SFU) - The judge Tomas Norström is a member of this discussion forum that holds seminars, debates and releases the Nordic Intellectual Property Law Review. Other members of this outfit? Henrik Pontén (Swedish Anti-Piracy Bureau), Monique Wadsted (movie industry lawyer) and Peter Danowsky (IFPI) - the latter is also a member of the board of the association.

Swedish Association for the Protection of Intellectual Property (SFIR) - The judge Tomas Norström sits on the board of this association that works for stronger copyright laws. Last year they held the Nordic Championships in Intellectual Property Rights Process Strategies.

Looks like the judge who ruled against Pirate Bay is in league with anti-piracy groups in Sweden. Christmas just came early for TPB's lawyers.

Can you say "conflict of interest" kids? Because I'm sure the Pirate Bay lawyers can.

Woah! That's pretty crazy. Why the hell would someone with such an obvious conflict on intrest even take the case. He must have know this was coming.

Not entirely sure what a more neutral judge would change, though.

Not entirely sure what a more neutral judge would change, though.

They certainly have a right to find out.

They certainly have a right to find out.
Not sure that the defence or the prosecution are going to let judges either pro- or anti-piracy get away with anything if the choice of judge changes.

Because I don't think there is anyone genuinely neutral about piracy.

Because I don't think there is anyone genuinely neutral about piracy.

On the Internet, probably not. In the real world though, I'm sure they can find someone.

Not sure that the defence or the prosecution are going to let judges either pro- or anti-piracy get away with anything if the choice of judge changes.

Because I don't think there is anyone genuinely neutral about piracy.

Yes, but there's a difference between having an opinion and feeling so strongly you actively campaign and work with anti-piracy organisations.

Judges have a duty to be impartial and issue an equitable ruling. This judge failed in his duty to uphold the law. If the judge had no known conflict of interest, we'd just have to wait for an appeal, but this miscarriage of justice should warrant the discard of the ruling and a new trial.

Yes, but there's a difference between having an opinion and feeling so strongly you actively campaign and work with anti-piracy organisations.
Fair point.

Being part of a discussion forum is not a conflict of interest. Sitting on the board of the SFIR certainly seems like one to me but then I am not a lawyer, and particularly not a Swedish lawyer.

The judge Tomas Norström is a member of this discussion forum that holds seminars, debates and releases the Nordic Intellectual Property Law Review


There's no conflict of interest here - it's a discussion forum, not a lobby group as far as I can see.

The judge Tomas Norström sits on the board of this association that works for stronger copyright laws
I would imagine this would bias his decision alright, and that alone would have some grounds for an appeal.

Tomas Norström works for the foundation that oversees the .se name domain and advises on domain name disputes
Eeehhh, don't really see that impinging on an IP related case.

I'd say the Pirate Bay lawyers have just had their appeal handed to them on a silver platter.

(in my non-IP, Swedish lawyer opinion)

The normal procedure in Sweden is that the judges are drawn by random, but in this case he was appointed which in it self is a bit strange. Even stranger is that the judge told one of the common man that was in the jury that he should leave since he was a composer and therefore could have a conflict of interest in the case. The judge however have said that did not think that he himself had that....

And the SFU is not only a discussion forum but also have an active interest in the pirate issue.

A lot of Swedish people are thinking that Sweden are quite upset I can tell you, since these are the things should not happen in a democratic and fair country. The mere suggestion that the judge is not impartial makes the case stink. A lot of us was chocked about the ruling since the 30 million SEK (about 6 million dollar) is very high and has no really counterpart in court history of Sweden.

A lot of us was chocked about the ruling since the 30 million SEK (about 6 million dollar) is very high and has no really counterpart in court history of Sweden.

It really has the hallmarks of RIAA influence doesn't it? Squeezing every penny out.

Now we just have to find out whether the RIAA and/or MPAA have been courting the judge with little 'favors' to add icing to the cake.

Unbelievable. Wow. That was way out of line. What was that judge thinking?

Excuse me Judge, yes you, put down the bong. Come back to earth here for a moment. Even if you are the most honest, upstanding, unbiased citizen in Europe. It is going to look very much like you are biased since you belong to all these pro-copyright groups. DUH!!!!

Can anyone here read Swedish? According to this, the same judge supposedly ordered the raid that led to the trial. If it's true, it sounds like an agenda from the get go.

http://www.nyteknik.se/nyheter/it_telekom/allmant/article34888.ece

Can anyone here read Swedish? According to this, the same judge supposedly ordered the raid that led to the trial. If it's true, it sounds like an agenda from the get go.

http://www.nyteknik.se/nyheter/it_telekom/allmant/article34888.ece

It is the same judge that authorized the raid on Bahnhof which is mentioned in the article, however that was not the raid that led to the trial. The raid against Pirate Bay happened on the 31 of may 2006, which is a year after that article was published.

There's no conflict of interest here - it's a discussion forum, not a lobby group as far as I can see.
The Swedish rules concerning conflict of interest are wider. The judge should have recused himself if any particular reason existed that would be suitable to diminish confidence in his impartiality in this specific case.

And when both the prosecutors and the judge are members of a group called The Swedish Union for Copyright one could suspect that they could have too close ties, considering that this was very much a case about copyright.


I'd say the Pirate Bay lawyers have just had their appeal handed to them on a silver platter.
The question is whether or not a mistrial should be declared - an appeal was inevitable ;)

TPB spokesperson Sunde has expressed reluctance at the idea of a mistrial, saying he'd rather go straight to the appeals court and not having to go through a retrial first.

The Swedish rules concerning conflict of interest are wider. The judge should have recused himself if any particular reason existed that would be suitable to diminish confidence in his impartiality in this specific case.
Definitely shouldn't even have been a question. Any judge worth his salt should have immediately removed all doubt by recusing himself.

And when both the prosecutors and the judge are members of a group called The Swedish Union for Copyright one could suspect that they could have too close ties, considering that this was very much a case about copyright.
True, but (and I don't know the background to the group - simply going on the name and Journal it publishes) it doesn't indicate bias simply because one is member of such a group. He (theoretically, although obviously not in this case) could easily be a more 'liberal' member of the Copyright group pushing a more liberalised interpretation of IP law.

Obviously he didn't :D , but I'm just saying being a member of a group doesn't automatically equate to a conflict of interest.
Edit: Actually.... even if he was as 'liberal' member, that would still be biased to the defendants..... I see the point :p


The question is whether or not a mistrial should be declared - an appeal was inevitable ;)
Ah. Touché.

TPB spokesperson Sunde has expressed reluctance at the idea of a mistrial, saying he'd rather go straight to the appeals court and not having to go through a retrial first.
Could double jeopardy/ne bis in idem apply here - or does that not apply to mistrials even after a sentence?

Could double jeopardy/ne bis in idem apply here - or does that not apply to mistrials even after a sentence?

Not usually. The most common result in cases like this is a retrial - since the defendant has not had a fair day in court.

Hmm. Not much of an opinion on the whole issue, but honestly, this judge is quite obviously biased. New trial anyone?

Can you say "conflict of interest" kids? Because I'm sure the Pirate Bay lawyers can.

I guess so. They're going to flay the judge all the way up to the European Courts.

Hey! Beware that this forum is seen in Italy, too! It's forbidden to say "c. o. i." here! ;)

Definitely shouldn't even have been a question. Any judge worth his salt should have immediately removed all doubt by recusing himself.


True, but (and I don't know the background to the group - simply going on the name and Journal it publishes) it doesn't indicate bias simply because one is member of such a group. He (theoretically, although obviously not in this case) could easily be a more 'liberal' member of the Copyright group pushing a more liberalised interpretation of IP law.

Obviously he didn't :D , but I'm just saying being a member of a group doesn't automatically equate to a conflict of interest.
Edit: Actually.... even if he was as 'liberal' member, that would still be biased to the defendants..... I see the point :p

Hehe :p

I think membership alone (honestly, I'm not sure what they're up to at their meetings!) wouldn't be a sufficient reason to call a mistrial. Everybody is allowed to have some political leanings, even judges!

The problem is more that he was a member, and that three on the side of the prosecution were members as well. It's the possible ties that's problematic in my mind, not so much any possible ideological bias.


Ah. Touché.
En garde! :eek2:

Could double jeopardy/ne bis in idem apply here - or does that not apply to mistrials even after a sentence?
No, I think that any mistrial is declared null and void. They would be back to square one, as if the trial never happened.

TPB spokesperson Sunde has expressed reluctance at the idea of a mistrial, saying he'd rather go straight to the appeals court and not having to go through a retrial first.

It might well be that it will be easier to fight the penalty that has been handed down as ridiculously high then it would be to retry the whole case, get the same guilty verdict anyway but with a lower more reasonable sentence and have to try to appeal that instead.

It might well be that it will be easier to fight the penalty that has been handed down as ridiculously high then it would be to retry the whole case, get the same guilty verdict anyway but with a lower more reasonable sentence and have to try to appeal that instead.

This is probably their best bet. After all, the law isn't about right or wrong, it's about the law, and under the existing statutes and court cases (apparently if I hold my boyfriend's jacket while he punches someone I can be criminally liable in Sweden?!) it seems rather apparent that an unbiased judge would have to issue much the same verdict, as it's clearly evident TPB has no intent to co-operate in any way with rights holders as is required so...

This is probably their best bet. After all, the law isn't about right or wrong, it's about the law, and under the existing statutes and court cases (apparently if I hold my boyfriend's jacket while he punches someone I can be criminally liable in Sweden?!) it seems rather apparent that an unbiased judge would have to issue much the same verdict, as it's clearly evident TPB has no intent to co-operate in any way with rights holders as is required so...

To help someone to commit a crime even you yourself don't do the actual crime is against the law in most countries. The question is if The Pirate Bay actually did help anyone to commit crimes anymore than google. The judge said so but most people don't seem to think it was a correct verdict.

More judges should recuse themselves.

The dirt is bound to be revealed sooner or later.

Isn't this whole routine a little late? How long will we have any recorded music anyway? It's all digital...and a lot of it is released FREE.

To help someone to commit a crime even you yourself don't do the actual crime is against the law in most countries. The question is if The Pirate Bay actually did help anyone to commit crimes anymore than google. The judge said so but most people don't seem to think it was a correct verdict.

The particular case I was refrencing in Sweden was one of their Supreme Court cases, which according to the wiki article (which I realize isn't the best source, but I can't read their source since it's in Swedish), someone was held criminal for grabbing someone's jacket as if to restrain them or some such while committing battery. The reference meaning to point out that Swedish courts tend to take a rather liberal view of what it means to help commit a crime to begin with.

With that said, it doesn't matter how many people don't think it's the correct verdict. The popularity of a verdict has no impact on its validity. In this case, popular or not, I think the verdict would stand up to a retrial. Pirate Bay is significantly different than Google in that Pirate Bay allows users to upload and then stores the .torrent file directly and offers it for download. Google does no such thing. The closest Google comes is YouTube which will remove infringing material when notified of its existence, something Pirate Bay has rudely, crudely and childishly refused to do. It seems pretty clear that site has done everything short of outright saying "We are comitted to helping you violate intellectual property rights and making a profit from advertisements and your donations while doing so." I'm not an expert in Swede or EU copyright law, but I'm pretty sure that's illegal. Whether it should be or not is a question for the legislature to handle, not the trial court.

Isn't this whole routine a little late? How long will we have any recorded music anyway? It's all digital...and a lot of it is released FREE.

The reports of the death of the music industry are greatly exaggerated. It's still a billion dollar industry.

Can you say "conflict of interest" kids? Because I'm sure the Pirate Bay lawyers can.

yeah - I can understand the judge holding a preconceived opinion, but being affiliated with anti-piracy organizations may be going a bit too far.

Procedural question: Was there some sort of jury system, was this a single judge, or was there a panel of judges? How was the court organized?

Not sure that the defence or the prosecution are going to let judges either pro- or anti-piracy get away with anything if the choice of judge changes.

Because I don't think there is anyone genuinely neutral about piracy.

I am.

Pirate Bay is significantly different than Google in that Pirate Bay allows users to upload and then stores the .torrent file directly and offers it for download.

However, the .torrent file is merely something that tells you how to obtain a copy of a possibly copyrighted song/movie/whatever. It is not the copyrighted thing itself.

To what extent should informing people on ways to break the law, as well as making it easier for them to do so, be punishable ?

However, the .torrent file is merely something that tells you how to obtain a copy of a possibly copyrighted song/movie/whatever. It is not the copyrighted thing itself.

To what extent should informing people on ways to break the law, as well as making it easier for them to do so, be punishable ?

Swiss bankers have been getting away with it for decades. :D

yeah - I can understand the judge holding a preconceived opinion, but being affiliated with anti-piracy organizations may be going a bit too far.

Procedural question: Was there some sort of jury system, was this a single judge, or was there a panel of judges? How was the court organized?

Normally there is one judge and three "nämdemän", which are politically appointed "common men" (not really common men since they normally have a political career but I don't know any better name) where each one has a vote and have the same power when it comes to deciding the punishment.

One of this nämdeman leaved the case since he was a composer after advise from the judge since he might be biased and a new one was appointed. Which is a bit strange when the judge might be even more biased...