NationStates Jolt Archive

The Taliban are now 70 miles from the Capital and closing.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124041153700943789.html#mod=loomia?loomia_si=t0:a16:g2:r4:c0.042682:b24056250


If Pakistan falls to the Taliban and they get access to Pakistani nukes, what are the US options?


EDIT: WOOPS didnt see the other post on same topic my bad.

Military action.

Withdraw all US citizens from all the countries in that area. I am assuming that the Pakistani nukes have no delivery system that could reach the US.

Withdraw all US citizens from all the countries in that are. I am assuming that the Pakistani nukes have no delivery system that could reach the US.

So? They could reach other nations in the middle east, they could reach India. ,

So? They could reach other nations in the middle east, they could reach India. ,And that's a problem for the US... How?

Plus, India can take care of itself, largely by ashing Islamabad in return.

So? They could reach other nations in the middle east, they could reach India. ,

So the question should be what is India going to do.

I don't know what the US would do, but I'd start holding on to my bottlecaps. It's going to important to able to buy rad-x after the end of the world.

And that's a problem for the US... How?


They have all this oil that Americian do so like, and there's these countries nearby called Iraq and Afganistan that have significant numbers of US troops in them. And that's before you consider the implications of a nuclear armed fundamentalist Islamic nation on the world political scene. I'll put it this way: It wouldn't be good for the US.

Reading the article they seem to make clear that the Pakistan army hasn't engaged them yet. It's not that the Taliban are militarily more powerful than Pakistan's government but a lack of political will as yet to stop them.

I dare say if they headed to Islamabad that will would manifest pretty quickly. So don't panic quite yet.

And that's a problem for the US... How?

Plus, India can take care of itself, largely by ashing Islamabad in return.

I know the subject is what would the US do, but I meant to imply as to what India would do. :):$

And, Middle East nations tend to have US troops in them.

Reading the article they seem to make clear that the Pakistan army hasn't engaged them yet. It's not that the Taliban are militarily more powerful than Pakistan's government but a lack of political will as yet to stop them.

I dare say if they headed to Islamabad that will would manifest pretty quickly. So don't panic quite yet.


The Pakistani army did engage the Taliban in Swat valley. And withdrew in defeat and surrendered the area.

Pakistan needs to read World history and the fate of Poland in WW2

If the Taliban are foolish enough to engage in a conventional battle they will probably get the arses handed to them anyway.

Reading the article they seem to make clear that the Pakistan army hasn't engaged them yet. It's not that the Taliban are militarily more powerful than Pakistan's government but a lack of political will as yet to stop them.

I dare say if they headed to Islamabad that will would manifest pretty quickly. So don't panic quite yet.

In fact Pakistan has just sent out troops to stop them: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/8014167.stm

Although I imagine they will have difficulty properly routing out the insurgency I don't think it's likley the Taliban can take over the country entierly jsut yet.

Reading the article they seem to make clear that the Pakistan army hasn't engaged them yet. It's not that the Taliban are militarily more powerful than Pakistan's government but a lack of political will as yet to stop them.

I dare say if they headed to Islamabad that will would manifest pretty quickly. So don't panic quite yet.Pakistan's military has engaged rebellious - frequently Taliban-aligned - forces with some frequency for the last decade, though. Success is, quite evidently, negligible. The problem is that the Pakistani military looks good on paper - getting them to actually fight, however, is a bit of a problem.

Add to this that the Pakistani democracy is, ah... Divided, in that there's Taliban supporters sitting in parliament, and... Yeah.

If the Taliban make a try for Islamabad, it's going to be one hell of a war.

And the US has launched several airstrikes against Taliban in Pakistan so if war in Islamabad takes place there would be some sort of substantial military involvement by the US.

Let India deal with it, infact let's us and India double team 'em. That'll be fun. India gets to be rid of a pain in their ass, and we get us some cannon fodder.

If the Taliban make a try for Islamabad, it's going to be one hell of a war.

And the US has launched several airstrikes against Taliban in Pakistan so if war in Islamabad takes place there would be some sort of substantial military involvement by the US.Forget the airstrikes. You're aware which country the supply lines for the ISAF go through, yes...?

Actually, pretty sad to see things go this badly in a country so vital for the Afghanistan ops. Although I suppose that more direct actions before the shit hits the fan would've been looked upon... Poorly, by the world at large (Well, and they'd destabilise the regime, too. Best to wait and look like the good guy, I suppose). It's not known for its foresight.

Forget the airstrikes. You're aware which country the supply lines for the ISAF go through, yes...?

Actually, pretty sad to see things go this badly in a country so vital for the Afghanistan ops. Although I suppose that more direct actions before the shit hits the fan would've been looked upon... Poorly, by the world at large (Well, and they'd destabilise the regime, too. Best to wait and look like the good guy, I suppose). It's not known for its foresight.

Agreed, but the US wouldn't just sit back and do nothing. They are fighting a War on Terror after all. And the Taliban are one of their prime enemies.

I dunno. If the shit does hit the fan and fuckin' explodes everywhere, I guess we'll see.

Military action.

Haha, and do what? March around and shoot at people? We have no capability to fight a guerrilla war and that is what the Taliban run. Maybe we can hire Israel to go in and kill everything that moves and get away with it because of the Holocaust + all the Jewish vs Arab wars.

if the Taliban does Takes pakistan. Well then I say we march south, and India marches north.

Let India deal with it, infact let's us and India double team 'em.
An Indian invasion of Pakistan?

That'll solve all the problems in the area...

An Indian invasion of Pakistan?

That'll solve all the problems in the area...

they will apply hindu law. and hindu law is so much better and likely to go over so well with the locals.

I say we supply close air support for the current Pakistani government's military in fighting the Taliban.

However, in order to keep everyone from losing face, we'll let the Pakistanis take all the credit for wiping out the Taliban, and pretend like we were never there. All the costs of running air support can be funneled into the "training exercise" fund.

they will apply hindu law. and hindu law is so much better and likely to go over so well with the locals.

I don't think that was what Chumblywumbly was getting at....

If Pakistan falls to the Taliban and they get access to Pakistani nukes, what are the US options?

...
...

Invade Iran?

EDIT: Sorry, bad joke.

I don't think that was what Chumblywumbly was getting at....
I think g&d is being typically sarcastic/waffling.

Another war ? I bet America´s drooling.

I think g&d is being typically sarcastic/waffling.

If India just invaded Pakistan got all the nukes out destroyed nuclear facilities present and the like then just left, it wouldn't be so bad.

If the US hadn't diverted its forces by invading Iraq, that would never have happened.

If India just invaded Pakistan got all the nukes out destroyed nuclear facilities present and the like then just left, it wouldn't be so bad.
That is an 'if' of gargantuan proportions.

Moreover, I think encouraging war between two hostile, nuclear-armed states, both of which have problems with insurgent groups and a volatile political landscape (not to mention India's current general election), is naive at best.


If the US hadn't diverted its forces by invading Iraq, that would never have happened.
Perhaps, though even if coalition forces had been far more successful in Afghanistan than they have been, there's nothing to say that militants pushed out of their old strongholds wouldn't have popped over to Pakistan anyway.

I think the Taliban seriously messed up on this one. They made a big mistake.

That is an 'if' of gargantuan proportions.

Moreover, I think encouraging war between two hostile, nuclear-armed states, both of which have problems with insurgent groups and a volatile political landscape (not to mention India's current general election), is naive at best.

Far better then us doing it. We could also help the 'IF' along by providing Air support and the like. Kashmir would be Indian occupied, though.

Far better then us doing it. We could also help the 'IF' along by providing Air support and the like. Kashmir would be Indian occupied, though.
Then why not provide support to Pakistan? Why get India involved at all?

A US-backed Indian occupation of Kashmir and other provinces would undoubtedly leads to instability.

Then why not provide support to Pakistan? Why get India involved at all?

A US-backed Indian occupation of Kashmir and other provinces would undoubtedly leads to instability.

We haven't been supporting Pakistan ???
This is all worse case that the current Pakistani government collapses, and all that remains of Pakistan is the Taliban.

Pakistan & China have a defensive alliance in regards to any large-scale Indian incursions into either nation, so India probably won't be doing much about this

With any luck maybe Iran will come to the rescue, they are Shi'ites afterall & they hate Sunnis like the Pakistanis, plus they could pillage Pakistan's nuclear arsenal for themselves, maybe then they could annex Afghanistan & Iraq to rercreate the Persian Empire, only one with nukes & a lot of hate for the USA & Israel, wouldn't that be swell? Good thing that it isn't likely to happen.

Pakistan & China have a defensive alliance in regards to any large-scale Indian incursions into either nation, so India probably won't be doing much about this

That is assuming China recognizes a Taliban government.
Given China's problems with Islamic extremist I think not.

We haven't been supporting Pakistan?
No, I'm not saying that.

I'm meaning that if Taliban forces take Islamabad, it doesn't mean all of Pakistan suddenly becomes under their rule. There'd still be a Pakistan government-in-exile, or a Pakistan government-a-bit-to-the-south, as I doubt India, the US, the UN, nor pretty much anybody else will recognise the new authority in place.

No, I'm not saying that.

I'm meaning that if Taliban forces take Islamabad, it doesn't mean all of Pakistan suddenly becomes under their rule. There'd still be a Pakistan government-in-exile, or a Pakistan government-a-bit-to-the-south, as I doubt India, the US, the UN, nor pretty much anybody else will recognise the new authority in place.

No one would recognize such authority. I was going off the threads title Taliban takes Pakistan. If the legitimate government in is chased to a corner of the corner India and that government might find common cause. Namely preventing a group as nutty as the Taliban from having nukes.

In which case perhaps the US could deploy to make sure Kasmir remains in Status Quo Antebellum.

I doubt India wants to absorb any more Muslims. Give the conflict they have with Muslims inside of India already.

It would take a large-scale defection of the Pakistani military for the Taliban to have a serious chance. If things got bad, the Pakistanis would haul Musharraf out of retirement and put him back in uniform. And the US would put as many boots on the ground as necessary to stop the Taliban.

Guerilla warfare works great on defense, but the Taliban simply isn't capable of defeating the Pakistani and American militaries on the offense.

I don't know what the US would do, but I'd start holding on to my bottlecaps. It's going to important to able to buy rad-x after the end of the world.



I el oh el'ed. Damn Ghouls.

This can only be a good thing. It will be a stimulus to the nuclear bomb shelter industry which has suffered severe negative growth for several decades. This will provide jobs and bring the entire world economy out of recession faster than you can say "generations of mutant children"

This can only be a good thing. It will be a stimulus to the nuclear bomb shelter industry which has suffered severe negative growth for several decades. This will provide jobs and bring the entire world economy out of recession faster than you can say "generations of mutant children"

I dunno, I can say generations of mutant children pretty damn fast :p

Though bagsy on a good mutation like super-strength or lazor eye-beams. Though comics have taught me the most common one will probably be psychic powers.

If the US hadn't diverted its forces by invading Iraq, that would never have happened.

This.

Pakistan & China have a defensive alliance in regards to any large-scale Indian incursions into either nation, so India probably won't be doing much about this

This also...as much as China might balk at a Taliban takeover of Pakistan, I think they're more worried about India in the long term.

Withdraw all US citizens from all the countries in that area. I am assuming that the Pakistani nukes have no delivery system that could reach the US.

Excellent point. Given that Pakistani weaponry has likely been developed with the sole intention of use against India, I doubt such weapons as the Taleban acquire could reach either Europe, or the USA. Southern Russia, India, and China, potentially, and undoubtedly Afghanistan, however, I'm not overly concerned about the fate of Afghanistan, and attacking any of Russia, India or China would be idiocy.

oh look it seems that when you let the Taliban occupy an area and build up forces it goes horribly wrong and not just for the locals

course the Pakistani military will give them a good shoeing (hopefully), still maybe the Taliban supporters could do with rule under the extremists as a bit of rough justice

Let India deal with it, infact let's us and India double team 'em. That'll be fun. India gets to be rid of a pain in their ass, and we get us some cannon fodder.

hell just let India storm the whole fortress seeing as how they've been gagging for it for decades and lets face it even with the Pakistani military on side India's military is rather capable of doing the job

Then why not provide support to Pakistan? Why get India involved at all?

because should Islamabad fall it signals the end of the Pakistani governments control over its territory and more than likely the democratically elected government itself

A US-backed Indian occupation of Kashmir and other provinces would undoubtedly leads to instability.

much like having a nuclear armed unstable government that closed schools to build its nuclear program pointing nukes at another state with nukes that are equally itching to have a good scuffle

That is assuming China recognizes a Taliban government.

or rather that China wouldn't seize the opportunity for a good land grab

Guerilla warfare works great on defense, but the Taliban simply isn't capable of defeating the Pakistani and American militaries on the offense.

If the Taliban are foolish enough to engage in a conventional battle they will probably get the arses handed to them anyway.

this is folly as as far as tactics are concerned the Taliban is spot on only suffering thanks to the fact that they can't shoot (so a bit better than spams)

if the Taliban did move into Islamabad it would be the fall of Kabul all over again and odds are with much flag burning and akbaring in the streets much like Leicester

Pakistan is warning the Taliban to withdraw back to their province. question is: what will Pakistan do if the Taliban ignore them?

Will they nuke the Taliban?

Would Pakistan nuke it´s own territory ? Would any nation ?
Not likely, IMO.

Pakistan is warning the Taliban to withdraw back to their province. question is: what will Pakistan do if the Taliban ignore them?

They will do nothing. There are Taliban sympathizers and supporters in the military and intelligence agency. It's like the Israeli argument ordering the solders to close down the illegal settlements. Sure, they pretend to do it, a few people get moved. But otherwise they drag their heels any don't really do anything.

Pakistan is warning the Taliban to withdraw back to their province. question is: what will Pakistan do when the Taliban ignore them?

Will they nuke the Taliban?
*fixed*
Nothing will get done. The government will fall without intervention.
If the US does not the India will at least to get the nukes out of the hands of Taliban.

So what? None of our business. Let the Taliban and the Pakistanis fight. It's none of our business.

So what? None of our business. Let the Taliban and the Pakistanis fight. It's none of our business.

Wow, what a terribly unrealistic and short sighted view of things. Im glad you will probably never be close to a government office.

So what? None of our business. Let the Taliban and the Pakistanis fight. It's none of our business.

If pakistan didnt have nukes I would agree.

They have nukes and that's the last thing we want the Taliban and their friend Bin Laden to have Access too.

Really, all we can do is pull an Operation Margarethe and seize control of the country for our own interests. Honestly, the Taliban and the scum that support them are going to hate us regardless of what we do..."winning hearts and minds" is a joke and it's just plain not going to happen. We will not be rewarded with anything except bloodshed for letting any part of that region fall to fundamentalists, so we need to dig in and make the kind of decisions that need to be made.

Either we're going to do it or India or China will. Personally, I think the Chinese would do a better job of pacifying the region since they have no qualms about using the lash when it's needed but I doubt India would want them moving any closer to their border. And the last thing we need is a war between those two...

Either we're going to do it or India or China will. Personally, I think the Chinese would do a better job of pacifying the region since they have no qualms about using the lash when it's needed but I doubt India would want them moving any closer to their border. And the last thing we need is a war between those two...I dunno. Could be pretty epic.

Really, all we can do is pull an Operation Margarethe and seize control of the country for our own interests. Honestly, the Taliban and the scum that support them are going to hate us regardless of what we do..."winning hearts and minds" is a joke and it's just plain not going to happen. We will not be rewarded with anything except bloodshed for letting any part of that region fall to fundamentalists, so we need to dig in and make the kind of decisions that need to be made.

Either we're going to do it or India or China will. Personally, I think the Chinese would do a better job of pacifying the region since they have no qualms about using the lash when it's needed but I doubt India would want them moving any closer to their border. And the last thing we need is a war between those two...

If we do it I prefer we get in get the nukes and the scientist who know about nukes out. Then leave that place to its own mess or China.

I dunno. Could be pretty epic.

If you really want to play Fallout 3 IRL, maybe. It would also take care of global warming, I guess.

If you really want to play Fallout 3 IRL, maybe. It would also take care of global warming, I guess.

bah China will give India a good shooing the in mountains until the logistics gets cut and everyone will go home declaring victory

So the question should be what is India going to do.

Nothing. Indian govt is very good at doing nothing.

Pakistan is warning the Taliban to withdraw back to their province. question is: what will Pakistan do if the Taliban ignore them?

Will they nuke the Taliban?

No. They will accommodate taliban and enter into some deal.

Fighting taliban means moving troops away from Indian border and fighting with "their own people" who they need to use later. Kiyani won't be doing it.

Just yesterday, the Pakistani army is violating the ceasefire and giving covering fire to push jihadis into Indian Kashmir.

(http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/PoliticsNation/Pak-army-help-to-guerrillas/articleshow/4448115.cms)

Shows clearly what their priorities are.

The steps the United States should take are one at a time. Good thing we finally have a team in Washington that knows how to do that.

I don't know what the US would do, but I'd start holding on to my bottlecaps. It's going to important to able to buy rad-x after the end of the world.


Gotta invest on Radaway.